With the word that Grayson Rodriguez and Andrew Kittredge will begin the season on the IL, Luke Jones and Nestor express concern for how many hits the Baltimore Orioles can take before Opening Day in Toronto in less than three weeks.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, spring training, Gunnar Henderson, intercostal strain, Andrew Kittredge, knee inflammation, Grayson Rodriguez, velocity drop, Felix Batista, Sagano, Charlie Morton, pitching depth, bullpen, injury concerns, new ownership.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 tassel, Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. We are positively into the spring training baseball thing. Yes, I am wearing my curio rented orange Baltimore bird. We’ve had bird tapes I deemed John Eisenberg earlier this week. Now that he’s doing his bird tape second season, I’ve deemed him the bird keeper. So this is the guy who keeps our birds aflame here in the nest. Luke Jones joins us now. It is not purple. It is orange. We got plenty of purple. Dude, it’s crazy week, right? Like tampering weekend towson’s plane, we’re going to be over at CVP in Towson at noon on Sunday. We’ll be there again on Monday night, Tuesday night, as long as it takes to get one of these local teams into the tournament. And we had Pat scary on last week. We had all this stuff going on, but spring training injuries, right? There’s news, not great news. And you know, in any way, the really bad news is that plane that was headed to Tampa on Monday morning that you and I are not on because of the tampering period. Don’t laugh at me. I’m still upset about this, I mean, but it might be 65 here on Tuesday. Said I’d be nice. But the spring training thing has really changed for the Orioles, and we’ll get the tampering in the ravens and Justin Tucker and all that other nonsense. But there’s like, real baseball news and not but we want to be talking about this time of year, which is opening day. Will this guy be available? Boy, oh boy. It’s not even Saint Patrick’s Day. Man,
Luke Jones 01:32
yeah. I mean, this is the problem with spring training or with training camp, when we’re talking about the Ravens in the NFL, where, if there’s news this time of year, generally speaking, it’s not great news. Now, let’s be clear, I don’t think there’s anything here that warrants the panic button just yet, but it’s not ideal when your best player, Gunner Henderson, is dealing with an intercostal strain, minor as it might be when you’re three weeks out from opening day and you’re hearing Brandon Hyde say they’re still very, very hopeful he’s ready for the opener. Now let’s be clear, you need to be careful with with these type when you’re talking about an intercostal strain or an oblique, which is obviously something that’s quite common in baseball, you want to be careful this time of year. And if that means that gunner Henderson has to miss the first series or two of the season, then so be it, because you don’t want him to be dealing with this in June and July. But it’s not what you want to hear. It’s certainly not how you want to start off the season, potentially, and well, especially, we know where you’re
Nestor Aparicio 02:32
getting out of rushman too, right? Like, at least, oh, sure. I mean,
Luke Jones 02:35
I mean, regardless, put it, put rutchman Aside of me, Gunner Henderson himself. I mean, this guy was MVP of the American League through the first two and a half months last year. Now, Aaron judge the rest of the way, enough said, and Bobby Witt, for that matter, as well. And gunner was not dominant in the second half of the season, but you’re talking about one of the five best players in the American League, if not all of baseball. So you want to make sure he’s right. It’s not something to panic about, but it’s one of the when you’re dealing with the side or a rib cage issue for a baseball player with the the way they twist their trunks, winning swinging the bat, that’s something you need to be very, very careful with. That’s something that you’re not trying to play through in mid March. So the Orioles are going to be smart about this. Gunner Henderson is going to be smart about going to be smart about this. And you know, for some context, keep in mind he dealt with an oblique issue very early in camp last year, and he ended up being fine, right? So this isn’t to sound the alarm that he’s doomed. The Orioles are doomed, anything like that, but you want to be careful with it, and the Orioles are going to be, and that’s why we’re not going to see gunner Henderson out on the field for grapefruit league action, at least for the next couple weeks. So, you know, there’s that for me, the one that’s a little more unsettling is Andrew Kittredge with his knee that when you hear Brandon Hyde say that they had imaging done, which, okay, you know, an MRI can be a very precautionary, very preventative a measure when you’re talking about something like that. But when you hear then that they’re going to gather some other opinions, and you hear second opinions, then you start to wonder, okay, is this something where there’s some kind of a surgery or a scope on the table, or is this something that they can’t quite figure out why his knees inflamed? You know, that’s something that, not that Andrew kitchers is going to be their closer or anything like that, but this guy was signed to be an important part of their seventh and eighth inning picture, and a guy that you know on any given night maybe you asked to close, depending on the state of the rest of your bullpen. So I would
Nestor Aparicio 04:42
say he’s a guy they’re counting on, not a guy they’re hoping on. You know, yeah,
Luke Jones 04:48
I mean, any, any reliever you’re going to give ten million to, I mean, you’re counting on to to be a real part of your bullpen. Again, that doesn’t mean he’s, you know, that the bullpen is completely sunk without him. But. When you’re hearing, you know, knee inflammation, it sounds a little mysterious in that way, he can’t quite explain it. And when you hear that he’s getting an MRI, and they’re gathering some opinions, that’s where you wonder, okay, is this a little more? Is there a little more to this than next thing it happens? There’s the scope? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And again, we’re not talking necessarily that it’s a season ending thing or anything crazy. But when you’re getting three weeks out from opening day, you know, even for a reliever who’s only going to pitch an inning at a time, there’s still a ramp up here that you want a guy to be able to go through. So so that’s, you know, that’s unsettling, that’s unnerving, at least until we get a little more clarity on it. But you know, you’re talking about someone that, let’s face it, when they pivoted to Andrew kitrich, remember that was on the heels of them exploring a deal with Jeff Hoffman, which, you know, the reports indicate that the Orioles had a three year agreement with him, until they had some concerns about his shoulder. Now they kept it under wraps, and he ended up signing with Toronto, and things worked out fine for him as well. But this was, this was the fallback option. So there’s some irony, I think, when, when you’re talking about someone else that you had some health concerns about, and then suddenly your fallback option has a concern, although it’s not arm related, but still, a knee. You know, if a pitcher is dealing with a knee issue, he’s not able to pitch. There are no
Nestor Aparicio 06:20
good injuries this year. Yeah. I mean, pick the Pinky Winky, pick the groin, pick the, you know, whatever it is, if it hurts, if it’s a backache, it’s no it’s, it’s no good you can’t solve this. I mean, some are
Luke Jones 06:32
worse than others, of course, but yeah, especially when you’re now getting to the timeline where you’re three weeks out and it’s baseball, there are no off days. It’s not like, Hey, you can just rest during the course of the week. The week like in the NFL. So to say something
Nestor Aparicio 06:45
too about baseball, and maybe I’m wrong about this, you can correct me, okay, and maybe I’m speaking off the cuff as a former media member, it feels to me, and I think the reality would be, and I’d have to talk to players about this, if Mike bordick were in the room with me or somebody like that. But this time of year is more stressful on their bodies than the season in a lot of ways, because of the running around you’re doing at 789, o’clock in the morning, all day long, the poking, the prodding, the bus riding, the back and forth, the two winnings here, the up, the down. Once you get into the season, you know where the hotel is, you know where the bar is. You know where the is, you know where the room you know where you’re parking. You know, like, there’s much more, there’s much less baseball and more. Like, get in the weight room, get in the top, do that sort of thing. Be ready to go run little BP, stretch, stretch, stay loose. All of that. This time of year, it feels more grindy, even if they’re out fishing or doing whatever they’re doing this time of year. And I would think there’s a lot more video study everybody’s Tony Gwynn in the modern era trying to work on this and that. I don’t think Jackson holiday has hobbies at this point. He’s 19. I think his hobbies like trying to make $100 million as quickly as possible, and, yeah, like literally, and all of the what they put their bodies through and recovery and all that, I would see spring training as being more likely to get injured because you’re just sort of farting around, running around, doing drills, doing stuff that on a Tuesday night of Yankee Stadium, you’re waking up in a hotel, you’re going to the ballpark, and you’re stretching, and then you play. Some guys don’t even play, right? You know, right? Or if they play, they play a little bit. It’s not an aerobic game at all. It’s not at all nobody. There’s no running in baseball except from here to there. So, you know, all of this stuff, I I think it’s easier to get hurt in spring training. I’ll just say that having done 15 spring trainings, oh, I’ve probably done 20 spring trainings, if you count the ones I’ve gone to as a fan out in Arizona. I’ve been to Arizona six times for spring training, so if I own the team, we’d be at Scottsdale. I’ll tell you that right now, but when it doesn’t rain, but I would say it’s it’s harder. I think it is anyway.
Luke Jones 08:53
I mean, I there’s probably something to that I would say. I don’t know if I’d say harder, but it’s just, it’s a different environment, right? And you have more
Nestor Aparicio 09:01
ways to get hurt, is what I would say, more ways to Yeah, well, I think especially on
Luke Jones 09:05
the pitching side, and obviously we’re further removed from this at this point, because these guys have been in, you know? I mean, they’ve officially reported in mid February, but so many of these guys are showing up by late January, right? I mean, I think if you were down at the Ed Smith complex in Sarasota in late January, you’d find a lot of these guys were already there. But there is, there’s a not that they’re not that it’s so intense that they’re there 14 hours a day, or anything crazy like that, but it is a little bit of a different routine. I mean, let’s use Jordan westburg as an example. And you know, there doesn’t seem to be any concerns with him. In fact, he might be back in the lineup, as you and I are, people are hearing our conversation, but he rented an Airbnb. He had a soft mattress and messed with his back right, instead of his typical mattress that he has for 81 home games in Baltimore. And now, obviously that can happen on the road over the course of a regular season, but. But those are just like the examples of things that you find, I think, with pitchers, and why there’s so much trepidation when pitchers and catchers report on the pitching side, there’s always that element of, how’s a pitcher’s elbow, How’s his arm, what was his training regimen? What was his workload last season? Was there a lingering issue at the end of last season that wasn’t detected over the winter, because you take that time off, and then you start to ramp up, and then it shows up right, almost like the Kyle Bradish thing last year, which, you know, okay, the the elbow issue was detected, you know, he first noticed it in January. But was that something that he actually did, I don’t know, in late eight, late September. Did he do that at the end of the previous season, and just never really felt it that much until he started to ramp back up. So, you know, these guys all have different training regiments and philosophies. Not that the teams aren’t standardized, but different players. You talk to them, some guys take a month off when the season ends. Some guys take two months off when the season ends. You know, I heard Harold Reynolds talking about this on MLB Network the other day, and how, I think when he was in Seattle, he was talking to their head trainer, their head strength coach, whatever that title was at the time. And you know, he kind of had a thought about what he was going to do in the off season. And the trainer is like, No, you’re going to relax for the next two months. And so there are always different philosophies, whether you’re talking about hitting or on the pitching side, but this time of year, when you’re really starting to ramp up and to your point, when it’s in a little bit of a less familiar environment than what you’re used to over the course of a six maybe seven month Reg, you know, regular season and postseason combined, that, you know, you can have some things happen here and there. So again, you know, when bringing it back to gunner Henderson, if he’s not there for opening day, assuming we’re taking all this at face value, it’s a very minor intercostal strain, which is, you know, it’s the muscles, you know, the muscles in the rib cage, you want to be careful there, right? You You don’t want him pushing through playing in grapefruit league games the third week of March, if that means he’s going to be dealing with this come June, right? So you want to be careful. And if he has to miss a few games, if he has to miss a series, if he has to miss a week, if he has to miss 10 days, if that means he’s going to be fine and write the rest of the season, then you have to do that. I mean, there’s no, there’s no debating that. You know, those games in late March and early April aren’t that important. I would say, for any of these guys, if they wake up sore, they sure be careful. Yeah, be careful, right? So, so, so that’s where they are with Gunner Henderson, you know, we mentioned Andrew kittridge, where there’s still some unknown there. You know, again, when you hear second opinions, you know that’s not It’s not great. You know, that’s not ideal to hear that, because that tells you that there’s either some concern or that tells you there’s some disagreement as far as what exactly is causing this right? And you know the indications are, it’s not like it’s this major, major injury that he has, but just dealing with inflammation, you know, what’s causing that? Is it a meniscus issue? Is it some scar tissue, like whatever? But you want to find out and again. Now, for a pitcher specifically, it’s one thing to talk about hitters, but for pitchers who go through progressions, if he’s shut down for a couple weeks, you know, even if he’s fine in 10 days, you are starting to get to a timeline where you wonder if he’s ready for the start of the season, or does he have to start the year on the IL which, you know, in this case, probably opens the door for Brian Baker to make the club, or something like that. So again, it’s not the end of the world, assuming it’s not something any major, anything colossal, anything major. One name I do want to bring up, because it was kind of an odd circumstance when he made his start on Wednesday. Grayson Rodriguez says he was fine after the game, said he felt, I think the quote was, he was sluggish, which, you know, there has been some sickness going around, or else camp, you know, I know Tyler O’Neill was was ill, and some other guys have been under the weather. I mean, you know, I mean, it’s the end of winter, right? I mean, there’s respiratory stuff. There’s been stomach stuff. I think many of us have dealt with it in our own families going around. But, you know, with Grayson Rodriguez on Wednesday, the velocity was down a little bit. In fact, you know it, I think he topped out at 95 and you know, the Statcast info kind of said he was at, you know, 93 you know, which is, well, this
Nestor Aparicio 14:26
is where you talk about warning signs that are just sort of like concerning, serious and, no, it’s not serious concern. That’s Justin Tucker, sorry, just concerning. How about that? Yeah, this
Luke Jones 14:38
is something to monitor. I would put it in that category. And, you know, he was asked about this, and even his first start, which was in Sarasota, they don’t have stat cast data there, but he was on the road on Wednesday, there was stat cast data. You know, he threw one pitch to start the second inning. I think it was 90 miles per hour. It’s like 89.7 I mean, that’s not Grayson Rodriguez, right there. Now you. He did say, and he had even said in previous interviews down in in spring training, you know, he did tweak his mechanics a little bit with in an effort to not put as much strain on his lat muscle, which, if you recall, that cost him the last two months last year. It’s the injury that he had in the minor leagues in 2022 so there’s some recognition of maybe tweaking your mechanics a little bit. There’s science here, right? Like literally doing this instead of that is, I mean, there’s some, there’s, there’s science that aids with that, but it’s still not a perfect science, right? So, but anytime you run the risk of a pitcher or a hitter, for that matter, if they’re talking about changing their swing or anything like that. You have new muscle memory that needs to be built, and you want, you do want to be careful that there isn’t an injury, there isn’t some kind of a physical concern. Again, you know, he downplayed that. You know, he didn’t say that his arm felt bad or that he there was an injury or anything like that. He talked to the media after the outing. I mean, the Orioles have become very much like the ravens and NFL teams, that if there’s a physical concern with the player, they’re not going to just send them out there in front of the media right away. So to me, that that seemed to be a good sign internally, but it’s something worth monitoring. And he did note that, hey, we’re still three weeks out from the start of the season. I’m not emptying the tank. I’m not emptying the clip in terms of my velocity. So just watch it, right? I mean, that’s something that you just want to keep an eye on, because you know that velo, especially, okay, 93 is one thing, right? I mean, someone that you’re used to seeing throw 9596 and and touching the high 90s, you know that that’s what you expect. So if he’s throwing 93 you know, if he’s top it out at 9495 in his second spring start, okay, but when you see 89.7 or whatever it was, okay, that’s, you know, that that’s, that’s a bit much in terms of not really going all out. Just watch it, right? Just monitor it. I think there’s going to be a lot of interest in what his next outing looks like. I’m sure Brandon height will be asked about him at least once. You know, between now and his next outing and again, not, not at all trying to speculate that there’s an injury, but when you see diminished velocity, you know, when you’re talking about an average fastball that’s down, think it was two and a half miles per hour, three miles per hour, something like that. You want to watch it, right? And again, he said he felt sluggish. Maybe he’s getting sick, maybe he’s under the weather, as I said, some of that was going around camp as well. So if it was that simple, then fine, right? No, no problem then. But we’ve talked about how important Grayson Rodriguez and his ability to take us the next step is for this club right now that has all these pitchers that you kind of view and say, Okay, number three, store starter, number four, starter, number five, starter, but they’re really counting on Grayson, Rodriguez and Zach Eflin at the top to really lead the way. And then, as we’ve said, then you see what happens as you get into the summer, you get closer to the trade deadline, you see, if there’s that right move to make that you can add a number one starter or another number two starter to throw into the mix. But all of those plans have depended on a healthy Grayson Rodriguez, so when you see him, have, you know, just a real, you know, probably the kindest way you could describe that outing, it was as black, right? I mean, and that was kind of the way he described it, how he just didn’t feel all that strong and just didn’t have his good command, which, hey, pitchers can have that stuff too. We’ve, we’ve all any, any baseball fan who follows spring training knows that guys can sometimes get a little bit of a dead arm as you get approaching halfway through camp, you know. So, you know, it’s something to watch, right? It’s something to monitor. It’s not something to panic about at this point. But I think there’s going to be a little more attention than normal for his next outing to make sure that he bounces back so, so that that’s kind of the update right now. I mean, you know, you one thing that I forgot to mention, at least in passing. You know, if gunner Henderson isn’t ready for opening day, keep in mind Jorge Mateo is still recovering from the elbow. So I don’t know what that means for shortstop for the Toronto series or whatever, but you know, you got to be careful with these guys. You have to understand that there’s no such thing as plagued through injuries in the grapefruit league. And really, you know by extension, you really shouldn’t be pushing through, trying to play through injuries the first week, the first two weeks, even the first month of the season, knowing just how long of a marathon it is, and knowing that you don’t want to be messing with rib cage and side issues when you’re talking about a hitter like gunner Henderson, just knowing how incredibly important he is to this team.
Nestor Aparicio 19:43
Luke Jones is here. He is Baltimore. Luke big. Thanks to our friends curio wellness. I’m wearing my curio orange shirt here. We’ll get to some purple and some other things. I’ve had all sorts of rock stars on this week. John Palumbo and crack the sky talking some old stuff. Rick Emmett from triumph has. New book out on guitar stuff. So we’re doing some music, we’re doing some politics, we’re doing some state house, doing a whole bunch of different things around here. If you haven’t heard my piece with Julie sharper, who did all of the reporting on Justin Tucker, definitely want you to check all that out. And if you’re Towson family, hope to see you on Sunday over at CVP, Charles village pub. Everybody knows where that is. Big Towson party going on on Sunday at noon, hopefully that extends to Monday, and then Tuesday. We will be doing the show at Faith Lee’s this week, at CVP in Towson, next Friday, and then at Pizza John’s two weeks from Friday, that will be the 21st which will be our last show before opening day. And then after opening day, we’re actually going to be at Faith Lee’s on the second of April, again to celebrate the Red Sox coming to town. Look, just to wrap things up on pitching, we didn’t talk Sagano. We didn’t talk Batista. You know, good news Charlie Morton. I mean, maybe it was Monday, you know, they’re going to pitch again, maybe by the time people even hear this or whatever. But watching the broadcast, feeling it off. I mean, certainly Charlie Morton feels like a big time, grown up, kind of a guy, and, you know, I heard his accent. I’m like, you know, his accent kind of reminds me Joe Flacco, because then I looked him up, I’m like, Oh, they’re only, like, 40 miles apart, and, you know, and then that’s why they all talk like that,
Luke Jones 21:11
yeah, yeah. I’m glad you brought that up, because those were actually more positive individuals to talk about at this point in time, as we were
Nestor Aparicio 21:18
kind of, well, Batiste does its own thing, right? Like, yeah.
Luke Jones 21:21
I mean, I don’t know if you had a chance to watch his inning, but other than the velocity not being up to full blown pre elbow injury form, Batista looked good. The splitter looked good.
Nestor Aparicio 21:34
I thought his co he knows how to do this, right? There is some Yeah, I mean, and
Luke Jones 21:39
he was, you know, his fastball mostly set 96 but he touched 97 when you’re talking about your first live game action and what 1617, months, whatever it is, I’ll take that right, and I don’t think there’s any concern, as long as he’s feeling good, that his velocity is is right there. And to your point, when we in one of our more recent discussions, you even talked about, you know, does Felix Batista? You know, it’s not like he has to throw 100 102 to be successful. Now, that said you don’t want him throwing 93 either, right? I mean, you still want him to be Felix Batista. But here’s the thing to remember about him, whenever you’re talking about pitching, right? It’s 60 feet six inches from home plate to the rubber, but a picture of the the height and size of him, the extension that he gets 97 miles per hour from him throwing it compared to a pitcher who’s six foot one. That’s that’s way different, right? That’s way different. That’s why Felix Batista throwing 102 you say, forget about it, right? I mean, because he gets the kind of extension it feels like he’s 45 feet away from you by the time he releases the ball. So that was good news. Sagano, you know, I think what’s, you know, what’s interesting about him? I mean, he has a six pitch assortment, you know, but by most accounts, his splitter, which he struck out ALEX BREGMAN on a good splitter on Monday, got him looking and the cutter, those are kind of regarded as his best pitches. But even watching him on Monday, I mean, he’s not going to overwhelm you. You know, he’s gonna have a fastball, 9091 92 you know, he’s not going to overwhelm you with stuff, but go look at his career numbers, pitching in Japan with the command his control. He doesn’t walk guys when you have a six pitch assortment, I mean, really someone like him, and this is where Adley rutschman And Gary Sanchez, for that matter, are going to factor in so much. And everything they do, from an analytics standpoint, between starts, pitch sequencing is going to be so important for Sagano, because when you have that kind of assortment, if you can command it all, and you can put it where you want it, you should be able to keep these hitters off balance. Now, what’s that going to look like in the major leagues? You know, I don’t think the Orioles are expecting him to be a number one starter. I mean, they didn’t pay him like that, right? But I think there’s certainly an optimism that even at his advanced age, even acknowledging he’s never pitched in the majors, they clearly saw something in him that they liked. And keep in mind, this is someone that Adam Jones, who’s back with the organization in a consultant on a consultant basis, and has, you know, given input you know, he faced this guy, you know he, Adam, played in Japan a couple years, and he, he was familiar with this guy. And, you know, Adam, I think you know he’s not going to, you know, he’s not going to Buffalo you. If he believes a guy can pitch in the majors and be effective, he’s going to tell you and and if not, he’ll, he’ll tell you, right? So, so they, even, I don’t know if I want to say it’s inside Intel, because it’s not like Jones’s best friends with the guy, or anything like that. But, you know, they they had someone who they trust, as far as have some opinions. And you know, he thought that, hey, this guy, this guy’s can pitch in the majors, so was good to see him do what he did on Monday. You know, again, that someone else that just want to give him. Apps get him a chance to be get familiar. I mean, even things as simple as the strike zone, the the baseball is different in the Major League compared to pitching in Japan. So, you know, he’s got to adjust. And you know, there’ll be some growing pains, I’m sure, but I think there’s definitely some, you know, some some optimism with how he’s looked so far. And you know, you mentioned it with Charlie Morton. I mean, look, I think what’s fascinating, I’ve alluded to this, but Charlie Morton is so fascinating in the sense that he has reinvented himself multiple times in his career. I mean, you go back to what he was early in his career. He gets to Pittsburgh. That was at a time when the pirates, with Neil Huntington, they were, they were one of the earliest teams to go all in on infield shifting and pitchers throwing two seam fastballs and getting ground balls. So he became a two seam fastball guy. He gets to Houston, and the thoughts, no we, you know, we think you have a good curveball, and we want you to throw your curveball with a four seam fastball up in the zone. And that’s what he became in Houston and later in his career. You know, his his stuff isn’t as devastating as it was, you know, several years back. I mean, he’s 41 years old, and he knows that most important Sure, of course, but he’s going to throw a lot of curveballs. I mean, you look, go, look at his fan graphs page, you’ll see that his primary pitch is not the fastball. He throws his curveball. He throws it a lot, and that’s going to be the main thing that he kind of sets pitchers up with. You know, he doesn’t get a ton of, you know, he’s not going to get a ton of swing and miss, but he’s still average about a strikeout per inning last year. So, you know, he still gets enough, more than enough. But if
Nestor Aparicio 26:34
you play defense against a curveball pitcher and beat the ball into the ground balance, yeah, I mean, guys that have trouble hitting curveballs really have, you know, Pedro Serrano right now, not a lot of guys in the big leagues have that issue, but it’s a game of fooling them, right? It’s literally, there’s
Luke Jones 26:51
still, still way more guys that have that issue than you would think, right? I mean, everyone in the minor leagues can hit a fastball. And even in this day and age, it used to be, well, can you hit a 98 mile per hour fastball. Well, heck, go through these bullpens. Everyone has that now, right? I mean, not everyone, but a
Nestor Aparicio 27:06
lot. So we can’t hit that. You’re not here exactly, exactly. So,
Luke Jones 27:09
so I think with Morton, no, look, the questions about his age are fair, right? I mean, it’s not like he put up amazing numbers in Atlanta the last couple years, right? But these
Nestor Aparicio 27:20
guys like him too, from the Houston chain that they came from. They’re very comfortable with him in the way that John Harbaugh brings Brent urban back every year in some way, right? And
Luke Jones 27:32
this is, you know, this is the latest iteration of Jordan, Lyles, Kyle Gibson, Corbin Burns was a different animal, because, you know, you’re talking about a Cy Young pitcher, but there was also a veteran purpose to each of those moves, and Charlie Morton fits that description this year. Now. He needs, he needs to be able to go out and perform, right? I mean, you didn’t give him $15 million just to be. Feels
Nestor Aparicio 27:53
like he’ll be capable of being what they want him to be, which is a fourth, a guy that takes the ball every fifth day and has an era of four make 30 starts,
Luke Jones 28:01
you know, I mean, that’s, that’s the thing you look at when you look at Charlie Morton the last few years, even in at his in his advancing age, where you’re talking about a guy that one thing that was wild Nestor. I didn’t even know this. He will, and this was, according to Sarah langs, you know, great MLB researcher. I saw this on Twitter. He’s going to, when you exclude St Louis Brown’s history, which I always do when talking about the history of the Orioles, I go from 1954 on. This guy’s going to be the oldest pitcher to have started games for the Orioles at 41 I was shocked by that. You know, I
Nestor Aparicio 28:39
don’t know. Dude, that’s a hell. That’s a hell of a trivia. Hold on. Let me think of who would have been 40, or who they’ve rented around here. I mean, they had Jim Tony, you know, they had Sammy. So they had some guys. I mean, 40 somewhere, but there are 40 something year olds. They’ve stunk for so long. And you know, Wilbur Woods still not doing it, and you know, Terry Forster, those guys that sort of hung around a million years ago, smoking cigarettes and pitching deliver 41 with a knuckle ball, Wilhelm or something like that. I mean, Doug trabeck might have been 3637 when he was here. I’m thinking, I mean, I’m thinking that even the Chris Bensons and those guys were 3233 they were contract guys in their early 30s that you thought, I don’t know, dude, I’m trying to think of any picture they’ve had around here over 3738 39 like, literally ever back to my era. I mean, even the mark Williamsons and the guys that were kind of old and tired, they were only 3334 I mean, did Jamie Moyer would be a different thing, but he did all that in Seattle. I mean, Jamie Moyer was 31 or 32 when he got out of here 15 more years. So I, man, I don’t know, dude, the oldest picture in Oriole history. Wow. Palmer. Palmer.
Luke Jones 29:52
Palmer. He wasn’t 41 Palmer would have been, let’s see. So he was,
Nestor Aparicio 29:58
he was, when he did that. Come back in spring training. Oh, well, we’re
Luke Jones 30:02
not counting that. Yeah, right. It didn’t, it didn’t Hall of Fame when he did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was strange. But, I mean, you were
Nestor Aparicio 30:09
a kid, but I remember it.
Luke Jones 30:12
Oh no, I remember, I remember, I don’t remember any obviously, he was done in an 84 but that was, that was the spring of 91 I remember that was probably 38 when he hung him up, right? Probably he was 39 so, so yeah, and let me, let me be clear. I don’t, I’m I don’t know about any 40 year olds, but when we’re talking about, when we’re talking about 41 year olds to have started this, doesn’t you know that we’re excluding relievers here, because I’m sure someone we’re not thinking about on that front. But the only other three, these were all St Louis Brown’s era. Eddie plank in 1916 and 17, made 20 starts. Fred Johnson in 38 and 39 made eight starts. And here’s a good name for you, for the St Louis Browns, 1951 through 1953 Satchel Paige made 13 starts. So
Nestor Aparicio 31:05
there he was, an Oriole. Come on. Oh, he’s a St Louis proud. Yeah, St
Luke Jones 31:09
Louis Brown. Again, I’m just giving you the the context. And again, this was Sarah Lang’s a great MLB researcher. Put this out on Twitter a few days back. I thought that was, that was really neat. So yeah, Charlie, Charlie Morton, some uncharted territory in terms of a 41 year old to start games for the Orioles, you know, starting pitchers. So look, you want to be realistic, right? I mean this, he’s not going to be the guy that he was when he was an all star pitcher, going back to 2019 2018 2019 with Houston and Tampa Bay. But hey, if he can duplicate what he did for the Braves last year, which was 30 starts, a 4.19 era, uh, average a strikeout per inning, you know that you don’t want them to be much worse than that, certainly, but you’ll take that. Because, as we’ve said, you need pitchers who can take the ball, right? Not everyone’s going to be Corbin burns, not everyone’s going to be Zach Eflin, not everyone’s going to
Nestor Aparicio 32:07
be the guy they want coming out of the bullpen in October for two or three innings. Like, that’s, that’s the kind of human they’re going to want around in playoff time, because there are no seven inning pitchers in October, you know? Sure, you know. So he’s part of an arsenal, right? I mean, that’s the way I’m looking at this dude. I’ve got people. I did an event, big thanks to Mike Titian, to folks over at with the connects event, but I did a connects event, and then buddy of mine from strategic factory, because everybody’s all pissed off at the Orioles and the pitching in the Babin. I’m like, What do you want them to do? Well, if they weren’t going to sign birds, they should have thrown $200 million million dollars out there. And I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t know. I mean, it ain’t my money, you know, but I try to be sensible about what their capabilities are. I mean, they solved the mass and thing since the last time you and I was gonna say,
Luke Jones 32:55
we have, we’ve got, we’re 40 minutes into our conversation, and we haven’t even talked about mass and but talk about cost certainty, Yeah, but look out here that argument, and remember, I was the guy saying, you know, instead of Sagano and Charlie Morton, you know, I would have been inclined to say one of them, and maybe I would have taken a little more of a risk, but a little more of a higher reward. Profile on someone like Walker Bueller, who the Red Sox gave $20 million to this year, right on a one year deal. And look, Walker Bueller may end up being worse than Charlie Morton and Sagano, but you know, I would have at least aimed for some for one pitcher like that. But yeah, I’ll hear you. And look, I would have explored Blake Snell, I would have explored Max free like, you know, I would have looked at those guys too. But yes, it’s very easy to be sitting there and just saying, you know, it’s not my money. Go throw $200 million at a guy who, you know, any of these pitchers feel like they’re a ticking time bomb at times, you know, when you’re talking about health in 2025 and the Tommy John epidemic and all that. So you know, we’re going to see how it plays out. And I think where you take some, you know, you take some solace, you take some you know you have some optimism, is you hope that with new ownership, that you know you have the prospects and the farm system that come may come June, come July, if the right pitcher is out there and you have a clear need, and again, this is knocking on wood right now that Grayson Rodriguez is fine, and he was just sluggish and all that, then that you can go out and make a move, right, whether it’s a rental or whether it’s another Zach efflin situation where you rented a pitcher, but Hey, he also has another year left on his deal. So you saw how that worked out. So where were you
Nestor Aparicio 34:45
with the max freed thing? I haven’t heard you talk about it, because I had people come up to me talking to me about that, and I’m like, you know, if you’re not feeling a $230 million pitcher, then don’t feel one. And if you’re feeling well, make sure it’s the right one. And you. You know, I’m not quick to spend their money, and people expect me to just want to kill them, right? And like, I got enough. Like, this isn’t about my press credential. Like that should be easy for them to do. This is two $30 million and talking about it as though it’s sort of like, we should just blink and play it in that game right away. I don’t know, even if I’m Rubenstein jumping into this, I’d be like, I’m not going to be like that freak with the men. The Mets up there just throwing money at everything. And it doesn’t. It still doesn’t work. Let’s let the baseball people do it. We’ll have the money when it’s time. And what I say to everybody, and this isn’t my corporate line, for sure, is they have money, and they have collateral. They have the ability to make any deal on the table they want to make on July 30, they can make the best deal for whatever picture they want. And as I said to this fellow over breakfast the other day, like they’ve never in your lifetime, I said they was a little younger than me. I said, in your lifetime, they have never. I’ve been on the radio 34 years, bro, 34 years. 34 trading deadlines. 34 years. Three owners now, four if you consider the other guy going bankrupt in a receivership. So I can’t think of a July ever where they had anything any well, we’ll send them Jeffrey Hammons and we’ll send them whatever Adam low and make all these Dylan Bundy throw all these names that nobody would ever wanted, that would have never have brought a one. And they weren’t a position that won any of that other than 2014 and 15. Anyway, they they really weren’t in a and they did deal that, you know, they got the big left hander. They made a deal Brander Miller, right? So they were in a position to do a deal back then, still pretty much the only deal they’ve done of sort of that kind of consequence in a pennant race, that’s meant they haven’t won a playoff game in 11 years, or whatever it’s been, right? So I would say, for me, I am patient in regard to new ownership, confident in regard to the depth of their organization. And if they really need to get somebody else’s one who’s really available on a flailing team, they might have to give Jordan westburg up to do it. You know, they might have to give a real player up to do it. They really might. They might have to say to rutchman, Hey, dude, we want an ace, and we’re going to go get that guy, and we’re going to do this and that we’re not going to pay you, we’re going to let beside you catch I mean, I don’t know, but that’s how this game gets played further on down the line. And I’m not nervous about Mike Elias and David Rubenstein’s ability, financially or with players, to make acquisitions and make trades, which that was never the case here. They never wanted to spend money, even though the old man had it or didn’t have it, depending on what you’re listening to, what you were talking about. And certainly, they never had the ability to pull a trigger to outbid anybody in a trading deadline with with players. Never had it.
Luke Jones 37:58
Yeah, I mean, they’ve, they had some players, but it would be only Dylan Bundy, or only Hunter Harvey, or only Jeffrey Hammonds way back when, right? I mean, they would have one crown jewel piece where you’d say, well, we can’t trade that guy. We need that which would
Nestor Aparicio 38:12
allow you to get Zach Eflin, but not allow you to get Dylan cease so, so
Luke Jones 38:18
we’re gonna see, but to go back to your max freed thing. I mean, Max freed ended up, you know, signing with the Yankees. Eight years, $218,000,000.08 years, two $18 million so you say average annual value, okay, 27 um, he’s, he’s 31 years old, and as recently as last July, he was on the IL for a forearm issue.
Nestor Aparicio 38:42
Now you’re paying him $27 million a year in 3031 and 3032 in his age, 3738 and 39 year, $30 million a year. You’re gonna, no, they need that money for gunner Henderson. I mean, they just do,
Luke Jones 38:57
and that’s the difference right now. And look the Orioles, let me be clear, because I do not want to come across sounding like one of these apologists for small market teams, right? Could the Orioles do that deal? Absolutely, they could do that deal. But what does it prohibit? How is it prohibited for them, if that deal goes sideways in the way that a lot of pitcher long term pitcher contracts. Can look how much money the rangers have given Jacob deGrom for what he’s offered them to this point in the in the course of that deal. Now, a lot of people would tell you that was a dumb deal from the start, based on how his last couple years with the Mets had
Nestor Aparicio 39:35
gone, gets pitching man Strasberg just go on and on and let’s be
Luke Jones 39:38
clear. Let’s be clear, when the Yankees or any team signs a pitcher to a deal like that, they know the back half of that deal is going to be a major L. They’re banking on it being a major win for the next three years, right? The next four years that they’re going to get surplus value, and then they’re going to take a bath, you know? They’re going to lose their shirt in the second half of the deal. People, but they’ll say, hey, if it helps us win a World Series, then we’ll take that. So for teams like the Yankees, who have huge markets, who have a much healthier TV rights outlook, I mean, the Orioles, as you know, we can dive into mass in here for 90 seconds. Okay? The nats are going to explore their own TV rights now. After 2025 maybe they’ll latch on the Ted leonsis and monumental and they’ll be fine. Or maybe they’re going to be talking to major league baseball in the way that the Cleveland guardians and all these other teams are now having basically Major League Baseball broker their local TV rights with the Orioles. You know what is going to happen with mass and, you know, I Nestor, if you ask me, right now, do I think Masson exists three years from now? I’m going to say, no, probably. I’m guessing it’s going to go away and you’re going to see the Orioles, you know, in in conjunction with Major League Baseball, whatever their future model is. And you know, as I’ve said to people, do some research on what MLS has done with Apple TV and and all of that. I’m guessing it’s going to look something more like that over the course of the next five years, or maybe Madison. Well, it
Nestor Aparicio 41:10
needs to be rethought and then more than that, not just the strategy, but like the revenue model sure needs to be better than the Baltimore banners or the Baltimore suns, no doubt, so so. And to be clear, that doesn’t mean the Orioles aren’t going to be able to make money, but until you figure that out, how much can you make? You What’s your annual you know? What’s your projected
Luke Jones 41:32
revenue stream going to look like on that front in 2020 620-728-2930, and, and, oh yeah, there’s a new CBA that’ll be looming in that time period as well, with already hearing the union talk about lockouts. So the point is, if you’re David Rubenstein and the Orioles, that’s not that you can’t spend money, but how much do you really want to extend yourself when you have such unknowns? Whereas the Dodgers who have a colossal market, right? And the Mets, who have an owner who just, you know, has a has a checkbook that has an endless number of pages to it, and just will spend, spend, spend, because he has the money. He’s in a big market, and he doesn’t care, right? You know, if you’re a team like the Orioles, you do need to be more measured and calculated about it again, and that’s what in what I’m hoping it that includes trying to forecast and trying to keep gunner Henderson and keep Jordan Westberg, at least keeping a couple of your young guys long term, not going to keep everyone. We know they’re not going to get to a point where they’re at a 300 plus million dollar payroll. I mean, how many teams in baseball Can they even say that? But they they certainly are spending more money now than they did a year or two ago, which Big whoop. Of course, you couldn’t spend any less than they did a couple years ago, but you want to make sure you’re doing that in a way that will keep you healthy and flexible, right? You can do it. You can sign Max freed. But what does that do in terms of impacting your flexibility? Over the next three, four or five years, as some of these young guys get closer and closer to free agency? So we’re going to see how it plays out, right and okay with the way they’ve managed. And I just want to say that on the record, and that’s fine. And look, and I don’t think they’re winning the World Series with this particular group. I really don’t, but I think they can get the kind of help they need in July, they can make decisions that will improve their team. They need to be a better team october 1 than they are today. I’ll say that, and I’ll throw one more thing out there. And you know, because we’ve been at this for an hour, you and me, sure, sure. One more thing I want to throw out there, as it pertains to pitching the Kittredge thing. I’ll throw one name out there that’s available right now, David Robertson. Robertson is still a still free agent. If Kittredge, if this second opinion on the knee proves to be something that he’s going to miss some real time, I’d love to see them say, Okay, we we’re not going to pitter around here. We’re not going to do the same thing with our bullpen. We need our bullpen to be locked down or close to it as the course of the season goes on and, you know, as Felix Batista gets more and more acclimated, I’d love to see them go out and get David Robertson, if this Kittredge thing is a real concern, because, look, he’s old. I’m not, I’m not saying he’s gonna, you know, he’s not the guy that he was as closer to the Yankee several, you know, years ago. But if you look at the free agent, gray beard relievers that are still out there, like Craig Kimbrel, for example, Robertson was the best last year out of that group. So if the Kittredge thing ends up being more of a concern, where you’re not going to have them to say, like, June or something like that, you know. And again, that’s pure speculation on my part, go out and get Robertson. So that would be the kind of move that it’s not going to sink you from a long term standpoint, but you’re gonna have to give them some real, real money on a one year deal. That’s something I’d like to see them do. And again, I I’m mostly with you, like I said. Would have liked to see them target a one year deal on a guy with a little more volatility on the upside, you know, from an upside perspective, but we’ll see how it plays out. And I’ll say this much. I you know, they’re starting pitching depth, while it’s not the great upside ceiling that that it is when you have Corbin burns that as your race, obviously. But, you know, I think they’ve, I think they have some viable depth arms, where they were talking about Albert Suarez, Kate povidge, has looked really good so far this year, or so far this spring, on the heels of having a good September. So that’s we’re talking about your number six and number seven starters, right there. So, but this is all assuming that Grayson Rodriguez, you know, whatever that start was on Wednesday, that that he’s okay. And that truly was, you know, him just being sluggish, and, you know, he’s not fully ramped up yet and all that. Because if there is something wrong with him, then everything we just talked about, all bets are off. And then it’s like, okay, you need to go make a move. I’ve had you’re gonna have to make a move sooner than later, because that rotation without Grayson Rodriguez in it that I shudder to think, you know, then you’re talking about not having enough and not having enough in terms of upside.
Nestor Aparicio 46:15
Luke Jones is here. He has enough upside to get us through tampering period. Next week, I’ll be watching the spring training games. Now the gunners not playing. It’s okay that we’re not going to Florida. We’re going to end the month in beautiful Toronto, Ontario, if they still let us in, I don’t know if we have to pay a tariff when we cross the border or not. I love you Canadian folks. Please let me in later on in the month. We’ll be doing that. We’ll they’ll let me in over to CVP and Towson. I’m still welcome over there noon on Sunday as Towson and Pat scary cats gear up for a run. They play at 6pm on Monday and then 7pm on Tuesday. If they continue to win in advance, we’ll be at the CVP next Friday. We’re at Faith leagues this Thursday, and we are at Pizza John’s on the 21st doing the Maryland crab cake tour. All of it brought to you by the Maryland lottery. He’s Luke, I’m Nestor. We are W, N, S, D, AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.
