It has been a rough spring for the Baltimore Orioles but Opening Day beckons next Thursday in Toronto. Luke Jones and Nestor get ready for the season and discuss the many concerns and high hopes for a roster loaded with young talent that is the envy of Major League Baseball. But…the pitching?
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the Orioles’ preparations for Opening Day and the final week of spring training. They highlight the importance of players like Gunner Henderson and Grayson Rodriguez, noting Rodriguez’s potential return in late April. They also discuss the Orioles’ rotation, with Zach Eflin set to start on opening day, and the need for a fifth starter due to the team’s early-season schedule. The conversation touches on the division’s competitive landscape, emphasizing the Yankees’ challenges with injuries and the potential for the Orioles to surprise. They also reflect on the team’s young talent and the importance of staying healthy.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles spring training, opening day, Grayson Rodriguez, Zach Eflin, bullpen health, Adley Rutschman, Jackson Holmes, Coby Mayo, Colton Cowser, Toronto Blue Jays, Yankees injuries, American League East, young talent, trade market, baseball season.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. We hope you set a spot on your Guile when you’re driving around Baltimore. We hope you join us on Friday over pizza Johns will be at Essex. All are brought to you by the Maryland lottery, the magic eight ball scratch offs. Have a handful of these left. You want to get some monopoly scratch offs. When we get the party started after opening day, we will be at fade Lee’s on the second of April. That’s a Wednesday. It’s not opening day, it’s the second opening days. They used to say the Red Sox will be in town. Luke and I will be convening, also some great guests. I think Mark Vivian is coming down that day, and we’re gonna have some fun. Jamie Costello is joining me at Cocos later on in the month in April. So we have Maryland crab cake tour stops everywhere, including at CVP in Towson. Last Friday, we had Pat scary. We had Patrick mcwhin from the startup. We also had Susan silkman, who is a hot yoga devote much like myself at up dog in Towson. So we talked some hot yoga, and Brian Baldinger in the NFL Network and all sorts of things. Luke and I have talked ravens at length. You can check that out at Baltimore positive, or am 1570 anywhere, podcast or YouTube, or where you find our work. And we are appreciative that you do find our work after all of these years, we’re going to be working in Canada together. Luke Jones has his passport out. We are headed to Toronto for opening day for all things Zach Eflin taking the hill. I am wearing my curio orange. I’m ready for baseball, right? I mean, we’re, we’re ready for baseball,
Luke Jones 01:33
yeah, I think you have to be at this point. I think even if you’re someone who is able to find some of the Orioles games on spring TV, which there aren’t a ton on massen. But you know, if you do the MLB TV package, you can get some more. You get to this point where it’s mid March, March Madness is upon us. At this point, they’re into the last full week of grapefruit league action, and you’re just ready for it to start. I mean, as much as you know, we’ll, we’ll talk about gunner Henderson and whether he’s going to be ready for opening day. And, you know, obviously the Kittredge injury, Grayson Rodriguez, you know, what will we think start throwing again this week. But we know it’s going to be a while until we see him, maybe late April, if everything goes perfect, a
Nestor Aparicio 02:21
bad spring, not, not disastrous, but not good, yeah. I
Luke Jones 02:24
mean, not as disastrous to say. The Yankees with Garrett Cole, Tommy John Luis heel is going to be out until the summer with a lat issue like Grayson Rodriguez had last year and over the weekend, Clark Schmidt, who was penciled in for the rotation, he’s dealing with the shoulders. So, I mean, we talk about it, it’s not it’s not terribly dissimilar to what we talk about in preseason football. Usually, when there are headlines this time of year, they’re not great headlines. So you’re trying to get to opening day at this point. You know, guys are starting to play a little bit more extensively in Spring Games. Some guys have had good springs. Some guys have had bad springs. And you know, you try not to make too much of spring numbers, and in most cases, I don’t. But when you see, for example, Sir Anthony Dominguez, who’s been awful this spring and really had some issues, or on the hitting side, you look at someone like Cedric Mullins, who’s really, really, really not doing much. You know that a buck 25 going into the last full week,
Nestor Aparicio 03:30
you’re worried about rushman, quite frankly, you know? And
Luke Jones 03:33
he’s at a good spring, right? He’s at a good spring. So, and let me be clear when I say that, that doesn’t mean I’m burying Cedric Mullins, or I’m burying Sir Anthony Dominguez. This is where, when you go into the last week, the last handful of games that these guys are going to play, you want guys to start feeling good about themselves. You want guys to have some success. I mean, Ryan mount castle has been red hot at the plate the last week or so, hitting for power, and everyone’s talking about, you know, the new left field wall. And he’s one of the guys that might have been impacted more than anyone these last few years in terms of a right handed power hitter playing half his games at Camden Yards. But you know, you just want to see guys taste some success. You want guys to feel good about themselves going into the season. You know, for as much as you’re waiting to see what happens with Gunner Henderson, whether he’s going to be ready for the opener or whether he starts the year on the i L for the guys that are healthy and playing regularly in spring training, you want to see them have some success. Jackson holidays had a really nice spring, but he had a nice spring last year, if you recall. It’s why so many people were surprised when he was optioned to Norfolk at the end of the grapefruit league action. So you know it, it’s time, right? I mean, it’s time. Not everyone’s healthy the way that you’d like, of course, but in terms of just the general flow of spring training, these guys are ready. You get to the last week, and you and I were in Sarasota at this time last year, you know, for the last full week of spring training action. Um. And, you know, you kind of, you can kind of gage it. These guys get to a point where it’s like, all right, it’s, it’s getting close to being that time to to play for real. We know officially now Zach Eflin is going to start on opening day. There was no surprise to that, especially when Grayson Rodriguez, you know, the health issue popped up for him. There was no question at that point. But you know, you’re trying to figure out the number five starter spot. Is it going to be Suarez? Is it going to be Kade povidge? What happens in the bullpen, you know, with Kittredge out until the summer. So there’s still some spots here and there to decide, but by and large, you basically know what your roster is going to be, and it’s just a matter of getting a little more work in here. But it’s time. It’s time to start watching some baseball for real. I’ve noticed that the last couple Spring Games I’ve watched Orioles, or or otherwise, where I look at it and I it kind of has that feel of, Okay, it’s time for these games to start counting, and it’ll be here before we know it. Um,
Nestor Aparicio 05:57
ethylene as opening day starter and where the rotation is now, versus where Grayson Rodriguez is still a rumor to me, and his effectiveness will still be a rumor, much like Batiste out of the bullpen, but for baseball argument sake, since we’re a week and a couple of days out on opening day, what? What are the five? And you rarely use five, because you usually get the second day off. But the Orioles don’t have that going on because they’re playing in the dome and they’re up in Toronto, so they’re going to need five quicker than they usually do.
Luke Jones 06:30
Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty unique in that way. I mean, I’m glad you brought that up, because typically you do have the the off day after opening day, as the Orioles will have next, you know the two weeks from now, you know when they’re opening at home against the Red Sox, and then they’ll have a a day off, and then play two, and then they’ll be back on the road again. So just kind of a strange early season schedule in general. But yeah, when you have no off day, you’re playing in a dome, as they will be at Rogers Center, you do have to have your five ready to go right out of the chute. So, you know, Brandon Hyde, early in camp, said that Albert Suarez was their number six, so to speak. And this was before Grayson Rodriguez, of course. So that’s kind of the logical answer. You know, that’s probably the favorite. But, you know, there is something to be said for, you know, giving kadepovich a chance on the heels of a good September, good September, he had a good start to the spring. I mean, he had been excellent in grapefruit league until his last start, where he was really good into his final inning, and he got knocked around a little bit, but he’s been really good overall. And the thought of you’d have a lefty in the rotation, maybe the idea that you’re intrigued by the idea of Suarez in the pen, but he was also really good as a starter last year. And you know, there’s something to be said of of letting that play out. And he got off to an uneven start in grapefruit League, but his last couple times out, he’s been quite good. So, you know, we know efflon, we know Charlie Morton’s going to be there. We know Dean Kramer is going to be there. Sagano has looked very good. You know, from, from, I’ve only had a chance to catch him once in a televised game, but it’s looked promising, right? I mean, I’m not saying he’s going to be an all star, let’s be clear, but I think there’s some intrigue that he could exceed some of the projections out there, you know that you’ll see at fan graphs and things of that nature, which there’s a lot of unknown. I mean, this guy’s never pitched in the major so that can be a bad thing. That can also be a good thing. And we’ve seen that be a good thing at times where an international star comes to comes to the major leagues, and takes the league by storm, at least for a little while. So that really helped them out. If Sagano could be better than advertised, but, you know, but, but we know those four, and it’s really going to come down to Albert Suarez or Cade Povich. And you know, there’s, there’s an interesting twist here, because Suarez was penciled for the penciled in for the pen. You move him to into the rotation? Well, then logic would say, Okay, well, Cade Povich could be your long man in the pen, but do you want to put kadepovic in that role at the beginning of the season, or if he’s not going to be in your rotation, would you rather have him starting every fifth day in Norfolk because he’s your next man up? Right? I mean, and you know you’re going to need starters small you need more than five over the course of a season. They’ve already tapped into their depth at this point in time. So so you know they’re they’re still figuring that out, and health still plays a big part in that, and making sure everyone’s feeling good on regular rest, and everyone’s staying and turn you hope you don’t get into one of these spells in Florida where you have multiple rain outs over the course of a couple days. And you know, kind of throws your pitching plans for a loop, but, you know, they’re just trying to get everything kind of lined up schedule wise. And to your point, yeah, you need five right out of the gate, which, you know, I can recall some years where the Orioles have. Needed a fifth starter until two and a half weeks into the season, so this little different in that regard. But hey, in this day and age, you need as much starting pitching as possible. So not exactly something that you know is a disadvantage or anything. It’s just a little bit of a quirk playing inside for your first four games of the season.
Nestor Aparicio 10:19
Um, Blue Jays, Red Sox. We will talk a lot about the Yankees and, you know, the rays, but where do you see the rest? I mean, the Red Sox feel like a team that tried a little bit and improved. Feels like the Blue Jays are always sort of scuffling around trying to figure out the young players that aren’t young anymore, and then they spent the money on Santander, and Santander said the Orioles weren’t close, right? In regard to money, um, the Orioles have some new players. This is, it’s a fun time of the year to evaluate these things and look and say, make my predictions, my sporting news predictions. My dad would have loved to that he lived long enough that I actually worked for Sporting News. He would have thought that was cool. But we always get the Sporting News predictions. I don’t know where I make the rest of this. I mean, I feel like the Orioles can be good. And we talked so much last week about their money and Mr. Moneybags, and whether they’re going to spend it, and whether they’re going to add or whether they’re going to subtract, and what they’re really going to be when they grow up. They’re in a weird transitional period where this new owner is going to have bobbleheads made for himself and all that seems probably going to be pretty good. It would be tremendously disappointing if the pitching so bad that they can’t be good. Yeah, and
Luke Jones 11:30
that’s where I have a tough time saying thinking it’s going to be that bad. But there’s questions. I mean, look at the Yankees right now. I mean, the Red Sox have had some guys banged up. I mean, there’s no such thing as having too much pitching, and that’s we knew that before the spring started. And certainly when Grayson Rodriguez goes down, and you know you’re you’re already feeling like you’re scrambling, and you’re saying, Okay, well, what’s going to happen on the trade market? And then you lose Kittredge, who was your big bullpen off season edition, and you know, he’s going to be out for, you know, at least a couple months. I mean, I think the best case scenario for him is June. Now it’s a knee, so you hope he rehabs that, and he comes in and he’s fine, right? I mean, it’s not like he’s rehabbing an elbow or shoulder or something where you start to question whether you’re going to have them at all. So, you know, there’s always that, but, you know, it’s an interesting division, because I think it’s funny, you didn’t even bring up the rays, and you’re not alone. I
Nestor Aparicio 12:29
did bring up the rays, but I didn’t bring up the race. I said them, but I said it in passes, but you
Luke Jones 12:34
didn’t, right? But you look at the rays, they’re kind of in a position. And I’m not saying all their guys are back, but they’re starting. Pitching is getting healthier. And you think about, think back to two years ago, when the Orioles were deadlocked with the rays for the entire second half of 23 you know, neck and neck. I mean, that race went down to mid September. I mean, that’s kind of where it’s, you know, the the Orioles, you know, we’re in position, thinking they they might lose the division, and they had that big series in Baltimore where, you know, went back and forth, but I think for even the rays, there’s a path for them to compete. Now, it’s not the conventional path. I mean, how many times over the last I mean, we’re going 2008 is when they made that World Series run. I mean, that was 17 years ago at this point in time. So they’re, they’re right there in terms of having more upside pitching wise. I mean, certainly you question the bats and just the makeup of their roster collectively. But, you know, I’m not counting them out. Toronto, of course, was such a big disappointment last year. They did get Santander. They still, you know, their pitching can stay healthy and, you know, they they can kind of get back to where they were a few years ago. I mean, keep in mind, I mean, they were kind of the Orioles before the Orioles, you know, really exploded in terms of this team that had this young core, and everyone was excited about them. And and then it just, you know, kind of just flamed out the last year or two. You know, I had some injuries, some guys not perform. And you kind of look at it, and, you know, they, they were famously finishing second place for all these big time free agents, until they did land Santander. But, you know, I think for me, the most intriguing is Boston, just because of some of the young players that they already had that were, you know, on the come, what they did in terms of adding Alex Bregman, obviously, there’s been some drama as far as Devers and whether, you know, whether help DH, even though bregmans a superior third baseman, it seems like that’s trending towards what you would expect, which is to play Bregman at third base, or they should anyway. They obviously the big acquisition was Garrett crochet. You’ve heard me talk about how much I like the walker Bueller signing for them in terms of upside on a one year deal, albeit an expensive one year deal. But you know, they’re, they’re dealing with some, some. Some health concerns here and there as well. So I think you go down the list, all five of these teams have things you like about them, and all five of the these teams have some question marks. I don’t think any of these teams look dominant on paper. The Yankees were the closest to that. But when Gary Cole gets Tommy John surgery. And, you know, he’s not a maybe like Grayson Rodriguez or or some of these other guys, you know, Luis heel for the Yankees. He’s done, right? He’s not pitching in 2025 that that brought the Yankees back to the rest of the pack. And then you consider heal, and you, you know, gianl Stanton, what’s going to happen with his elbows? Right? I mean, as I said to you over and over last year, as we were handicapping the race between the Orioles and the Yankees last year, even though the Yankees ultimately prevailed, a big part of their success was one Aaron judge, having an amazing year, Juan Soto having an amazing year. And some guys that you know had had some health concerns, staying relatively healthy. I mean, the Yankees have a lot of 30 somethings that they’re counting on. So you know, whether you think they’re still the favorite, favorite for the division or not. I think that’s, you know, up for debate a little bit more. Now, it’s not to say the Orioles are. That’s not to say the Red Sox are. I think this is not a bad division, because I’ve heard some people kind of call it weak. I don’t think it’s weak by any stretch of the imagination. I think all five teams have elements to them that are appealing. All five teams have elements to them that are a question mark or a concern, and the Orioles, we’ve talked at length about some of their concerns, but I’ve also tried to remind over and over, just about any team in baseball would gladly take their young core of position players right now, even acknowledging gunner being banged up and questionable for at least the first week or so of the season. So, you know, I think that the division was the Yankees as the favorite before the coal injury. And now I think it’s very debatable. You know, I, I you can make an argument for the Orioles. I think you can make an argument for argument for the Red Sox. I have a tougher time really making an argument for the Blue Jays or the rays to win the division. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t be right there in the thick of it and be a wild card, you know, a playoff caliber kind of team. So I think that’s kind of the state of the whole American League, isn’t it, right? I mean, you know, I mean, Cleveland last year is their bullpen going to duplicate what they did a year ago? And the out west? I mean, you look at the the losses that the Astros had, and, you know, Texas, okay, there’s, I think there’s upside for the rangers to bounce back from what was just kind of a lost year for them. You know, Seattle, they’re dealing with, you know, health concern in their rotation, and can they hit, right? I mean, that’s been the the knock on the mariners for years now. I mean, it’s got a good rotation. Are they going to get enough offense? So, you know, I think the the state of the entire American League, for me, is it’s real. It really feels wide open. That’s why it’s so intriguing. You know, when you’re talking about a Dylan cease or, you know, I’ve talked about David, you know, you and I sparred over David Robertson last week, and the Orioles, you know, there are other teams dealing with bullpen health concerns right now. So you know, not, not that you’re going to have the trade market come to a, you know, come to a resolution in late March, but I there’s very much going to be an arms race, so to speak. I think with the way that the American League looks on paper, and you know, who’s going to make the big move? You know, who’s going to be able to stay the healthiest at this point in time. But I just look at the American League and its totality, and as much as I understand Orioles fans being disappointed about the the off season, I mean, I caught it underwhelming myself, and it stinks that Grayson Rodriguez is dealing with this. And, you know, not knowing if you’re going to have his upside or when you’re going to have it, questions about the bullpen, you know, with Kittredge or, you know, even though Batista, I think, is trending in the right direction. Still going to be some questions about where he is and how quickly they can lean on him and depend on him. But I think where you take some some satisfaction, where you take some consolation, is that you can kind of do this with all these teams in the division, and I think you can do it largely with the whole league. So it really is a matter of your young guys taking a step forward, trying to stay as healthy as they can from this point knowing they’ve already dealt with some attrition here in the spring, and you got to go out there and perform. So, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s kind of a long winded way of saying I don’t really know, because I think all these teams have things that you like, but I think all these teams in this division have elements to them that you really have some question marks about, yes, even including the Yankees now with just the fact that they were older to begin with. And when you take you know it’s one thing to talk about grace and Rodriguez. It’s, it’s another thing to talk about a bona fide Cy Young Award winner and Garrett Cole, who you’re you counted on to be your horse, you know, not just in terms of innings, but to to be that legit number one. And there are only so many around baseball when you completely take that out of the equation, you have the same questions we we have about the Orioles right now, which is, how do you replace Corbin burns for the Yankees? How do you how do you replace Garrett Cole and there’s no simple answer to that, even if either one of these teams does go and get Dylan cease at some point in time, that’s still not quite the same as replacing the horse that you had previously.
Nestor Aparicio 20:38
Well, it’s also, you know how they come out of the gate, and whether they can win the one run ball games like they did during bucks era, or pull in the right relief pitching and circumstances and Brandon Hyde, and at the end of the day, you tap a guy in the sixth, seventh inning, go out that, you know, send him out. There were two guys on they either get out of her, they blow the game up. And it’s that bullpen part of it that we’ll spend time on rushman. And I was going to bring up Jackson holiday, and I still will, as well as gunner Anderson, because the ISS have to be, is is right. They they’re there can be no more regression for rushman if Henderson is going to start the season injured and holiday is going to be back in triple A by May 30, because he can’t do it because he’s young. I mean, they’re, you know, a lot of these guys still young, dealing with success, trying to find success, no success in October for any of these guys, really, there’s nothing to hang your hat on. After two really good seasons, new ownership more money, a couple of bought pitchers in the rotation in Sugano and Charlie Morton that are just rentals. Essentially, Charlie Martin’s 41 years old. They’re not buying him, you’re renting him. So I think they still have more work to do. And to your point, that really speaks to the long argument we had last week about Elias and Rubenstein and money, because they’re gonna have to add money to this. Yeah, and I mean, that was always taboo the last 30 years, right, saying they were gonna add money that that just has never happened here. So bringing that up is a little I don’t know. I’m projecting that onto them, because I think they want to win, as bad as we do. I don’t know. I mean, I really don’t know. Well, I mean, I know they want to make money as I know that well. And
Luke Jones 22:23
what kind of money is it? Is it in the sense of just payroll, like, Okay, you go sign David Robertson, which, at this point, you know, whoever’s signing David Robertson, or whoever signing Kyle Gibson, or whatever, veteran pitcher that is still a free agent. When you sign them, are they going to be, they’re not gonna be ready for opening day, right? I mean, you’re, you’re getting into that territory now, where, even if you make an addition like that, the question is, how quickly can they be ready? But whether it’s just point blank payroll, or whether it’s trading assets in your system, which that is money, right? I mean, that’s you think about the value of trading, you know? And they’re not going to do it, but I’ll just use his name, because he’s had a great spring, but Sam basayo, who’s been terrific. I mean, the way he hits it, I’ve seen him, you know, I’ve seen him. I’ve seen him hit a couple long balls, and it looks like he handles himself well. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 23:16
good. 1920
Luke Jones 23:19
I mean, you’re, yeah, I mean, this, this kids, he’s impressive, and they might have a really good problem on their hands. And when I say problem, it’s not really a problem, because you can, you need two catchers anyway. They might have a good problem on their hands if he goes to Norfolk and just rips things up for three months and does everything they ask him to do behind the plate. I mean, they might be in a position where they might be trying to get him on the roster in August, just to, just to have another bat, you know, off the bench, or DH, or what have you, but, but someone like Messiah, you know, we’ve been Jack. I mean, all these, all these young prospects. I mean the value that they have. I mean, it’s, it’s through the roof if they are as good as advertised in terms of cheap labor for six years. I mean, that’s gunner Henderson is such an extraordinary asset right now because he is the Orioles Aaron judge, yet he’s making a tiny, tiny percentage of what Aaron judge is making at this point. So, so you know, but you have to decide. You have to manage your assets, you know, you have to manage your payroll and kind of, you know, understand what your budget is, try to project out what the next five years are going to look like with, you know, your stadium renovations, and figuring out TV, you know, the future of mass and the future of local TV revenue, which every team in baseball is trying to figure out right now, but you’re trying to there’s a lot of projecting that goes on here, a lot of projection that goes on here that they’re trying to figure out. But yeah. I mean, they certainly need their in house options to pan out right. I mean, if Governor Henderson’s not gonna be ready for opening day, fine. You don’t rush him back. If he has to miss the first week, he has to miss the first 10 days of the. Season. So be it. He’s that important. You can’t. You can’t just have this short sighted approach where you’re saying, Oh, he’s got to be ready for opening day. No, he’s got to be ready for a six month season and then October. And the last thing you want is him dealing with a rib cage issue all year, trying to swing the bat at a MVP caliber level, so you have to be smart there. But, yeah, they need Adley rutschman to be Adley rutschman. That’s, you know, that’s kind of a for me, if this team’s going to reach its full potential. Like, that’s one of those things that that’s a requisite. Like, that’s a given, that he has to look like Adley rutschman again. I think Jackson holiday has to come on this year, because they’re really counting on him. There’s no Kennedys or freight or Frazier, whatever. Two years ago, Kennedy, I’ve been going back 20 years, but, you know, filling guys, and they got rid of their second baseman in the deal last year with the Marlins, so
Nestor Aparicio 25:52
he has to be an is not A, not A might be and well, and we’re just projecting a lot on the young players. That’s all I mean, and I remember every Craig Worthington and every Ken Gerhard and every Bobby Baylor, I mean, just, you’re just projecting a lot on the young players. Henderson has arrived, and the rest of them. I mean, rushman’s a
Luke Jones 26:12
two time all star. Let let’s okay. We need to be, we need to be balanced in how we view out. Adley rutman, look, I was as hard on him last, you know, the second half, last year, as anyone. But let’s not say he was injured. I mean, I don’t get this. I don’t understand if he was injured. I I don’t really get it either. But, you know, maybe, maybe it’s maybe he’s stubborn that he doesn’t want to have an he doesn’t want people to think he’s making an excuse for how he played. Because, dude, he was Bucha and a half. I know, well, it wasn’t a Bucha and a half, but it was, it was bad for a while. You know, it was like 185 or 190 whatever point is, we need to be balanced in understanding that Adley rutschman looked like a fringe MVP candidate for two years before that second half. I mean, Sky was almost immediately what he needed about three and a half weeks when he was first called up, struggled the first month or so, and then from that point on, he played like an all star catcher. So he was the best player on the team, very Exactly. So, so I want to be fair with how we view Adley, but that said he needs to go back to being that guy immediately, right? You can’t if Atlee rutchman sitting 200 the first month of the season, that’s concerning, right? Because then it’s now it’s not just, oh, he had a bad second half. Now it’s always had bad his last four months of Major League Baseball, he’s been a below replacement level hitter. So, so, so they absolutely need that you mentioned Jackson holiday. Look, there are layers to that. Does Jackson holiday need to be an all star this year? No, but he needs to be a legitimate, bona fide Major League Second baseman. You know? He needs to be above replacement level. And I think there’s lots of reason to expect that, right? I mean, understanding, look at what gunner Henderson did his his cup of coffee year late in 22 then he was Rookie of the Year in 23 and then he was an MVP candidate. Colton cowser, two years ago, looked like he didn’t belong in the major leagues. Last year, finished second in rookie of the year. So we’ve seen Jordan westburg was league average his first year in the majors. It was an all star last year, before he broke his, you know, had was hit on the hand with the with the pitch, and spent the last two months or so on the IL but, you know, so there’s, there’s a track record here of their young guys, even their young guys struggling initially and then really making a big jump after that. So, you know, I’m not going to sit here and project predict Jackson holiday to be playing in the All Star game, but I do think he can be an above average player for them and really settle in. Hey, he might have to be their shortstop for the first week or two of the season. I mean, that’s kind of where, you know, gunners making progress and doing baseball activity, but you know the fact that he’s, you know, we’re a week and a half out and still talking about him getting into Spring Games. I mean, that’s telling you they’re running out of time for him to be ready for opening day, you know, so, but you mentioned how much they’re they’re putting on the young guys. I mean, wasn’t that always the plan? You know, that was, that was the whole genesis of this five year rebuild, was you were going to draft all these players, and you have this amazing farm system, and, you know, so it better work. It needs to work, right? I mean, and, and I’ll hear anyone who says, you know, you’d like to have another veteran player or two in the mix. I’m not anti that, you know, I was saying that last October, just like anyone else, but at the same time, anyone they were going to bring in, realistically speaking, it was always going to be about gunner Henderson, Hadley rutschman, Jordan westburg, Jackson holiday. Colton cowser, you know, we’ll see about Coby Mayo is having a rough spring. He’s, you know, he’s not going to start the year in the major leagues, barring an injury. Three, you know, we’ll see about beside, oh, later in the year. Yeah, the
Nestor Aparicio 30:03
mayo thing, right? Like he was a guy that they two home runs one day, like Santander, right? And,
Luke Jones 30:10
and, look, Anthony, Santander, go back and look at how he played early in his career. I mean, he wasn’t, you know, he didn’t become a 40 home run guy overnight. Some guys take longer, but it is a little discouraging, just because Neo had a good spring last year, and not that there was much expectation that he was going to make the roster out of, out of, you know, spring training, because there wasn’t, but, but he was a disaster when they called him up. Yeah, I mean, he just really, really struggled. And look, I mean, the profile for him, he’s a big kid. He’s got huge power, but he does have swing and miss. And sometimes when you’re that kind of player, it takes a while to figure it out so
Nestor Aparicio 30:49
well, you look like Dave Kingman on your best day. Yeah, and you know Ryan mountcastle, we’re we’re into him being the most veteran guy on the team. I mean, I don’t know if Coby Mayo came up and became Ryan mount Castle, whether that’s what they think, or Eclipse that mount Castle has not been a bad major league players. Made some money, whatever, but solid, you solid, but, but, but not unspectacular. And I think what COVID Mayo, they felt like they might have a real I mentioned Santander, and there’s a guy that really out, kicked his coverage out hit is a roll five guy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, literally, I think they think differently in Mayo, especially at the age and feel like he could be a cleanup hitter when Henderson’s winning MVPs and rushman’s vine for MVPs and Jackson holidays. You know, when all that’s going on around them, I still think they think Mayo could be a 35 home run guy. Maybe he’ll hit 221, and, you know, strike out 164 times. But I think they see him as a a guy that’s going to be on this team. I don’t think they would have rushed him into a middle of Bennett race last year if they didn’t believe
Luke Jones 31:55
that. Yeah, or he’s the guy they trade for an ace at some point, right? I mean, okay,
Nestor Aparicio 31:59
no,
Luke Jones 32:00
I’m just saying, I mean, he could be that guy as well. Let’s, let’s be clear. I mean, COVID Mayo just turned 23 back in December, so you’re still talking about a young player, as much as you know, because gunner became the player that he did so quickly, because Jackson holiday made the his major league debut at age 20. We have to remember, when someone’s 22 or 23 that’s still really young for the majors, right? You know, how you view Mayo should not be the same way that we view Heston kerstadt, who I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention, like this a big year for Heston kerstad. You know, he needs, he needs to look like that guy or or he’s going to be the guy that’s traded as part of a package for an ace, and maybe that they all stink there.
Nestor Aparicio 32:41
They’re not getting traded for an ace. Well,
Luke Jones 32:46
it all depends, right? I mean, it depends on, do they have some diminished value, like Kobe Mayo right now? Does he have as much trade value as he had a year ago? Maybe not. But I also don’t think his rough cup of coffee last year completely eliminates his trade value or anything crazy like that, either. I think he’s still very highly regarded and and, you know, but he struggled in 41 at bats. 41 at bats is 41 at bats. You know, it’s not much, but it certainly wasn’t indicative of someone who was completely ready to tear tear the cover off the ball in the major leagues. But Colton cowser looked pretty woeful his first run in the major leagues, and finished second in rookie of the year last year. So I think, for me, for mayo, he was never going to be on this major league roster, barring an injury coming out of spring training, because mount castle and O’Hearn are still on the roster. You know, I think if, if they had dealt one of those guys in the off season, then Mayo’s path would have been a little more realistic. But you would have liked, I would have liked, to have seen Mayo have a better spring than what we’ve seen. He’s just, he’s kind of been pressing, you know, he hasn’t necessarily had quite as much of a strikeout issue compared to what he did it when he got caught up to the majors last year. But you know, just hasn’t. You know, he hasn’t popped. You know, it hasn’t had a spring to instill confidence, and that’s where it’s been a little deflating. But you know, that’s not to say he can’t go to triple A for a month and completely rake and look different in the in the eyes of their coaches and scouts and and he’s up in June because the Orioles made, you know, Someone got hurt, or some roster shuffling, whatever, and suddenly he’s everything they thought he was going to be, or he ends up being the centerpiece for them to go get a number one starter at some point in time. I mean, you know, I, I think that’s, you know, for anyone that’s not named gunner Henderson or Adley rutschman. Or at this point, I’m close to putting westburg in that category. I’m very close to putting cows are in that category. But you know, these guys that are still establishing themselves talking like kerstad or mayo, or, you know they’re, if they’re going to make
Nestor Aparicio 34:58
a trade, the Tigers. Get a guy like screwable comes available. Cows are gonna have to be, you know what? I mean, they’re gonna, they’re gonna have to put real players in that, that kind of deal. I
Luke Jones 35:07
don’t know if cows are has to be in that. Okay, I don’t know if I agree with that. I mean, I think a lot of that depends. How did they feel about let’s be clear, Coby Mayo still regarded as a top 15 prospect in baseball, like this. This isn’t someone who you know, or you know, I think the world, that’s why
Nestor Aparicio 35:24
I’m bringing up. They think he’s gonna back clean up in 2027 2829 and be a pie diver. They when they’re back to pay gunner, they wouldn’t have to pay him just yet, you
Luke Jones 35:36
know. But my point, I was just making Colton cows was already part of a contending club. You’re not trading a contending a very valuable player that’s already on your major league roster
Nestor Aparicio 35:45
for no to get a number one start. Or I would do almost anything at this point, because I feel like they’ve failed on that. I mean, unless something steps up, and Rodriguez is I just, I think Colton cows is really who, who’s your outfield moving? Well, then that’s where curse that these, you know, the rest of these guys have to stop. But I’m just saying, I mean,
Luke Jones 36:02
because mean, because Cedric Mullins is in the last year of Team control, they’re not extending him. I mean, Cedric Mullins, Cedric
Nestor Aparicio 36:09
Mullins might not get 218 at bats this year because he might not be good enough. But my point is, that’s why you need Colton cows are for the future, right? I mean, you’re, you’re not like, he’s going to be the guy that kind of anchors your outfit anyway. I’m just saying, if they’re going to make a deal for a sky, said scuba, I didn’t say even sees, use a rent, a real rental, but if they’re going to make a deal, to think that we’re just going to give up the scraps who are hitting 218 in Norfolk, that’s not beside you as an example, has moved into a place where you don’t want to deal them for anything or anybody at this point, probably not right. This time last year, scoop will be maybe that would have been the poison pill you have to. You have to give something up and get these guys. That’s why I said Kobe mayo. Kobe Mayo is a very serious prospect. I mean, the Orioles gave up something to get Corbin burns and rent him last year. We’re not feeling because we already have a short stop, but the brewers are going to feel his 540 at bats this year.
Luke Jones 37:02
Yeah, but he’s go. Joey Ortiz was a fringe top 100 prospect. Kobe Mayo has been a top 15 prospect in baseball. I mean, my my point is with me saying, like, Kobe Mayo would be the centerpiece of a deal for an ace. I mean, not, I’m not saying that’s the only thing you have to give up. You know that you’d have to include some, but he still should be regarded in that way. You know, we’re not talking this isn’t, this isn’t Kyle Stowers. And, you know, talking about guys like that, right? I mean, Kyle Stowers was never a highly regarded prospect. He was an okay prospect at his best. But you know, Connor Norby was never a highly touted prospect. He was an okay prospect, and we saw what that got them. Those two guys got them. Trevor Rogers, who wasn’t good, and now he’s hurt, so, you know. But again, we’re kind of getting into the weeds talking about a hypothetical deal that, you know, I don’t think there’s
Nestor Aparicio 37:59
going to be a deal. They’re going to have to go get pitched well, but unless Grayson Rodriguez comes back on April 9, teacher and, you know, goes forward, my point was
Luke Jones 38:08
that it’s gonna be, you know, scuba. I mean, I think, for one, I think the Tigers are gonna be pretty good. I mean, I’m not saying they’re gonna win 100 games, but, you know, I don’t think, I don’t think what they did last year was completely a fluke down the stretch, but that said, We’ll see so but yeah, I mean, look at the end of the day, this still, this is the same point I made to you throughout the second half last year, and it didn’t work out for them, because they struggled. But anything I’m talking about the trade deadline, or anyone you’re bringing in, this is this still goes back to this team is going to win on the back of its young position talent. It’s what it their entire foundation was built on that. So to sit here and say that it’s going to be something else that allows them to break through, yeah, they need to add another they’re going to have to add another starting pitcher. Boring, something really strange here. You know, barring Sagano being an all star and or Povich, or one of these guys looking like a number three starter, which, look, one of those things could happen. And if it does, it puts less pressure on you at the deadline. But
Nestor Aparicio 39:13
that looks like Jeff Ballard for a minute or way and Chen for a year, right? Like it just doesn’t mean that’d be great,
Luke Jones 39:19
yeah, way, and Chen was a really rock solid number three starter for four years. So, but, you know, we’re going to see how this plays out, and ultimately, you got to stay healthy. I think for these young guys, you’re, you’re, you’re asking a lot, but a lot, these young guys have already given you a lot in terms of, you know, Rutgers a two time all star. Second half aside, last year, Gunner Henderson was an MVP candidate. Last year, arguably the MVP of the league the first two and a half three months of the season, cows are was second in Rookie of the Year. Westburg was an all star. You know, now the time has come for kerstad to step up. And you need. Jackson holiday to really figure it out this year. There’s no reason to think he can. I mean, wasn’t this, wasn’t the Orioles hyping him up. I mean, all of baseball was talking about Jackson holiday being the best prospect in baseball a year ago at this time. And he, he’s still that, other than just from this, the stance that he’s officially graduated, right? You know, in terms from prospect status. So now it’s time and look, some people might be a little leery of leaning that hard on young players. And to your point, that hasn’t worked out in October, you know, going that route, but at some point in time, they have to break through. And you can find all types of examples in across sports. We’ve talked about it with the Ravens a lot the last five years, in terms of teams that couldn’t win in, you know, in football’s case, January, or teams that couldn’t win in October, until they finally do the Dodgers. The Dodgers, how much have we talked about them for the last decade, for all the money they’ve spent, how many World Series have they won? You know, they, they finally broke through in a bona fide full blown 162 game non COVID season last year to win a World Series. And you know, they’ve spent a billion, you know, billions of dollars, billions with billions, but Carl Sagan, but, I mean, Dave Roberts, a year ago, at this time, people were talking about, well, if they don’t win in 24 you know, do they need to move on? Well, he just got a nice extension and well deserved for Dave Roberts. But the point is, even the Dodgers spending more money than anyone can even comprehend, yeah, they still had a bit of a rep for coming up small in October. I mean, even go look at their run last year. They were, they were teetering in the division rounds, the Division Series. So, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s not easy, and so much of it in October still comes down to a little more random event, you know, little more luck than you care to admit. I mean, it’s just the truth if you know, understand the nature of baseball, but you’ve got to do everything you can to get to that point. You’ve got to do everything you can to get to that point and feel like you have a roster that’s constructed to win in October. And, yeah, I’m in agreement with you. The Orioles still have work to do on that front. That said doesn’t mean that they can’t go into the regular season and win and win a lot of games and be on the right track. And then as you get closer to the deadline, you get into the summer months, you kind of assess where you are, you assess payroll, and you know the makeup of your team, your prospects, where they are, in terms of their trade value, where everyone else is and and then you try to make some well informed decisions, understanding that, yeah, there’s going to be a lot of unknown, but I’ll continue to go back to the point I made to you throughout the winter. For as much as there are some questions about this team, I’ll still say they have a lot going for them, or as far as their young talent, and I will still bet more heavily on legitimate young talent, legitimate, not like, just hyped guys that you know, that you like, but no one else really likes, legitimate young talent, compared to where a lot of teams are, which is hoping that 30 somethings hold on for another year. And that’s where I think the Yankees bringing it back to compared to the rest of the Al East. I think that’s where the Yankees are a little more shaky than some people care to admit, because we’ve already seen it. They haven’t even broken camp, and you look at how much they’re dealing with and just how many older players they’re really counting on to to help them navigate. What’s going to be a 2025 without your ace and Garrett Cole All right,
Nestor Aparicio 43:52
Luke, we got a week left before we go to Canada. I have my my passport, my passport. So I grabbed it and I pulled it out just so I would actually have it. So passport, United States of America, here I am. So with my with my Canada hat. So I just want to say this to you before, because we’ll talk a little more baseball. I had to Google this because last week I tried to teach you the words to the okay Blue Jay song, because we’re going to Toronto. So you know it’s, it’s okay Blue Jays, let’s play ball. So, like, Let’s play ball. Is just play ball, right? It’s opening day, but the candidate doing a little different. So I was worried that they weren’t going to play this in the seventh inning, because I haven’t been the middle Blue Jays game in 10 years since, since 2015 when I did the baseball tour, big Poppy and I hung out that day. He was the greatest I had PP with big Poppy. So, but nonetheless, they do play it. I AI is great, right? So, i ai this, yes, the Toronto Blue Jays still play, okay, Blue Jays during the seventh inning stretch of their own game, a tradition that began, strangely enough, in 1983 you. Kind of weird year for us here. The song written by John Lococo and recorded by Keith Hampshire and the bat boys, is a staple of the seventh inning stretch. It is a tradition. It was remixed in 2003 and I fully expect you to be on your feet singing it. They also it’s weird up there. They’re hot dogs. They put, like, poppy seeds on the bun. You have to get used to that a little different than you’ve never been to
Luke Jones 45:22
Canada, correct? I have not. This will be my first time, all right, I’m gonna let said, I look like a hockey player, so I should fit right in, even though I’ve never played a dame
Nestor Aparicio 45:32
played. Look like you could be a right wing. I give you a right wing. Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely, I can’t even skate. Don’t tell him that she look, throw us out. Don’t let us in. Don’t do that. Yeah, Luke Jones and I are headed to Toronto, Canada, to be with Getty Lee, amongst other things, and the Toronto Blue Jays. We’ll be there next week, on opening day. Luke swears he has a passport. Dude, if you don’t have a passport, we both get Do you sure you want to go across the border with the Latin guy, with the guy from Venezuela, I don’t know, but it will look if they let me stay and let you win, just send my belt buckles or something. That’s all I could say at this point. But I am an American, even though my father was born in Venezuela. Did I just admit that I put chapter one of my book on my father up at Baltimore positive because I want people to understand my love Orio baseball. I want Mr. Rubenstein to understand I understand he’s doing a special lunch in this week as well for the CEO club of Baltimore as well. So it is baseball season. I don’t know if I’m a real media member. I’ll find out later on this week, I hope to be in Toronto with press pass with Luke, but I’ll be in Toronto either way, drinking expensive beer, cheap everything else, because, you know, we’re putting those tariffs on them up there. So we’ll see how that goes next week. But Luke and I go talk some Canadian baseball as we get ready for the legend of Dave Stieb and the sky dome. Oh, man, skydome. I have so many stories for you, Luke. Joe Carter, the home run. It was something Mitch Williams, Kurt Schilling, John crock, Lenny Dykstra, it was all there. That was 1993 My God, 32 years I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’re going back to Canada, because baseball starts there. You.
