If the whole sections of empty green seats at Oriole Park at Camden Yards in October don’t send a bright orange signal for change and improvement to the new ownership of the Baltimore Orioles, there is no hope. Luke Jones and Nestor wonder aloud where franchise goes – on and off the field – with new owner David Rubenstein in what they hope will be an offseason of massive transition and accountability that fans haven’t witnessed in three decades.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles offseason, new ownership, postseason struggles, fan attendance, player development, ticket prices, playoff performance, team rebuild, fan engagement, ownership transition, player contracts, fan frustration, team direction, fan experience, team improvements
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Music. Welcome home. We are W, N, S T Towson, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We are a positively making our way back out on the Maryland crab cake tour. We’re going to be a pizza Johns and Essex. It is our birthday month. My birthday, I’m getting younger. Luke’s birthday, the eliminations making him older. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. The Raven scratch offs you will have next Friday in my mother used to call it Essex, because she’s from Dundalk, uh, Essex. So we’ll be that at back river neck road. Actually, my parents were married at Mount Carmel, right at the Joseph hands corner and Mars estates, crossing the Thunderbird and down by the highway, movie theater and Al seafood, and all the great childhood summers I had at porters and Rocky Point all down there at Pizza John’s, our friends at Liberty, pure solutions, as well as curio wellness and wear my curio shirt put us out on the road for our 26th anniversary, as well as 26 oysters, 26 days. All of that is coming very soon. And our friends at Liberty pure solution. Somewhere around here I have my liberty, pure water, one 800 water, one 800 clean water. Excuse me, and you can find them at Liberty, pure and liberty, pure solutions. Com they do well water, and they keep my water clean, and I just have about this much water left. My mom used to have the days of our lives like sands through the hourglass. These are the days of our lives. That’s the Orioles for me. You know, lifetime of being an Oriole fan, they get eliminated. Really ugly fashion made me remember going back to those Vita blue, Jim Palmer and catfish Hunter Quay our matchups back in 74 my dad took me out to the ALCS when the A’s I first team I ever hated were the Oakland A’s. Now I feel terrible. They’ve moved. I don’t even know where they’re going, maybe another planet, Sacramento, someplace like that, but I inked the letter to David Rubenstein before the elimination. Luke would tell you, to be honest, I really thought we’d be in New York this weekend. I thought they were going to win a little bit. I thought they were going to kind of shock us a little bit, because I thought the pedigree was, when it comes time Burns will show up in pitch. Well, when it comes time Eflin will be okay. When it comes time Jacob Webb will be okay. When it comes time Cano will be okay. I said all of that. I said, when it comes time, you know, they might hit the ball, and part of that was really about hitting a lot of home runs, not walking as much. You’ll say they walked more. We’ll say they stunk in the second half of the year. We’ll stat it all up. And to your point, they stored one run. I want to give you a chance, because I know you’ve never seen network with Howard Beale and the great, late great Peter Finch. I keep talking about going to see that movie. I You’re as mad as hell, and you’re not going to take it anymore. And I want you to just yell, like you’ve done to me, off the air a few times. Just scream for me. Scream so your brother, so the deer out in Pennsylvania here you see your mother down the street hears you. I want you to scream freaking run. Go ahead. Do that, just
Luke Jones 02:57
because you’ve done that. I’m not screaming, but they scored one stinking run. Look, we could talk about this move by Brandon Hyder, this move, or we can talk about wits infield single, where Jordan westburg, he he might have had a shot to get the force at second. I think he really thought gunner was way over in the hole and he was pre pitch, but it looked like he could have gotten there. But we can look at all this stuff and look those little things are all important. And part of the problem of this ball club in the second half of the season was those little things started to really add up in terms of things they weren’t doing well, right? We talk about it in terms of their defense, or maybe a base running mistake here or there, or thrown to the wrong base, or what, whatever it happened. But
Nestor Aparicio 03:43
just hitting him with runners in scoring position, if they would have done that, it would have looked like a
Luke Jones 03:47
much better team. But I consider, but I consider that a big thing, right? I mean that ultimately, you got to, you got to score, you have to score runs or prevent runs. And, you know, but so the little things were adding up, but, but, yeah, you know, we talked about it their offense started to trend in a hot, cold direction in about July, even though the overall numbers were still good. August, more of that, and more struggles, and then September, until the final week that really but we their overall numbers for the month really struggled. So again, I I struggle so much with how to evaluate the postseason, because at the end of the day, Nestor, especially in a best of three, we’re literally talking about two games, if you and I got on the radio and went nuts in April or May or June or July or August, or yes, even September, even the second half of December, and went absolutely nuts and apoplectic about two games. People would be like people would be saying, What are you guys doing? But it’s October, and they’re all in five in October now with. This current group, this Mike Elias era of ball clubs, and they’ve had a lot of success two years, go back two and a half years, go back to the second half of 22 and how well they played and were messed around and were hanging around in wildcard territory, you know, until about the you know, two and a half weeks into September, when, you know, at that point you knew it was over, but you know, how do you react without overreacting? Because you need to react. I think, I don’t. I don’t think that it’s appropriate to just say, well, we’re fine. The status quo is totally fine and and I don’t mean that necessarily means firing people either, let’s be clear, there’s, there’s a lot of nuance. There’s a lot of in between, between everything’s fine, and firing your coaching staff or your manager or your front office lieutenants, whatever, right? But you do have to look at this, you know? I want to look, I want them to be taking a long look at their hitting approach and the times where it feels like contact is what they needed and they’re swinging big. I want to look at their player development even through the lens of not that it is bad overall, far from it. However, why did Jackson holiday up? Not quite as much, but still, he struggled when he came up. You know, after his initial couple weeks, returning in August, he did struggle, but why did Kobe Mayo do the same thing? I mean, Kobe Mayo is going to turn 23 this winter. That’s still very young, but it’s not Jackson holiday. Oh my gosh, you can’t drink a beer young, right? So is there something they’re missing late in their player development that’s that’s prompting these guys to not just struggle, but really struggle when they get to the major league the differences
Nestor Aparicio 06:45
are hitting off bad double A pitch question versus, you know, trying to get hits off that Reagan’s kid on Tuesday, and can’t do it. It’s
Luke Jones 06:54
true. But at the same time, we we have seen some other teams, like the kid for Texas last September, who get caught up and they’re they give them a major Joel right away. So it can have looked that way in April, but didn’t look that way the previous but cows are looked awful last July, though, like to the point where they sent them back down again. I’m
Nestor Aparicio 07:15
not every guy is different, though, to your I have lots of questions over the history of Oriole baseball watching every Craig Worthington sure, you know, not make it, and Ken GART Gerhardt not make it, and then have other guys like Jonathan scope or, you know, or Mike young flash, awesome for a minute and a half, and then they can’t figure anything out. I mean, it’s a tough game. ASK JOE Charbonneau, you know. I mean, it’s a tough game, really, it is. Ask Adley rutschman, right? Now, it’s
07:40
a tough game. It is, but these questions need to be asked, because
Luke Jones 07:48
they really struggled in the second half and Kobe Mayo coming up as one of the best prospects in baseball at a time when they had lost Jordan westburg And they would even lose Ramona Reus. I mean, boy, wasn’t that a perfect spot for oh my gosh, your your your top 15 in baseball prospect slugger who happens to play the same position came up and gave them a really nice jolt. Not saying that suddenly you’re going to be talking about him as Rookie of the Year or anything like that, but you’d be saying, oh my gosh, that Mayo kid was awesome for them in September, and now they’ve got him coming into 2025, and I’m, I’m using him as an example, right? When something like this happens, whether we’re
Nestor Aparicio 08:28
trying to hit two, three run, home runs and hit 241, they’d have been sent on there on a bad day, he
08:34
had a 50 strikeout rate, right? Yeah. I
Nestor Aparicio 08:36
mean, like, it wasn’t right. I
Luke Jones 08:38
so that’s where, so, you know, to the point where, believe me, I’m not down on Kobe mayo in a big picture sense, but like, that’s something I’m asking. Is there a hole in their late minor league development process that maybe could be cleaned up, that guys don’t struggle to that extent when they get to the majors? And again, I’m spitballing here. I’m at a loss for this, as much as lots of people are, and I’m I have a closer AX, not, not full access, believe me, there is, there isn’t a whole lot behind the scenes that we get access to as reporters, even who are there every day. So there’s a lot that’s still proprietary, and still, you know kind of mystery. You know more mystery than not to media and fans. But you know, I’m just asking these same questions, you know, I What about the approach, you know, what? What did happen in the second half of the season? Beyond the injuries and the injuries are part of it, but every team has injuries, right? I mean, you can’t use that as a 100% excuse. And then when you look at October, I mean, I’m fascinated to hear what Mike Elias is going to say. You know, they’ve gone over 5045, in five postseason games here and again, the Royals fine, or the Rangers, fine. Now, I suppose Stranger things have happened, but I don’t think the Kansas City Royals are winning the World Series. Now you can play this back on November 3. Nestor a. Do, and then maybe we’re having a little bit of a different discussion, but, but that was part of this that was so frustrating, because these games, both these games, were so winnable, right? The Rangers beat their butts last October, right? I know game one was close, but those last two games, I mean, the Rangers outclassed them. You know, they didn’t pitch and, well, they hit a little situational
Nestor Aparicio 10:20
hitting. They had the bases loaded. And I’ve watched other baseball, but watch a lot of ball the last couple days, right? And shortening up stroke, stroke with two strikes, having a different approach, as you pointed out a minute or two ago. And I’m thinking, I’m watching these other teams have success in saying, how do we not lose one to nothing in two to one ball games. I mean, like, how can we manufacture a run? In the old days, we would say, not bunting, because nobody will do that. Nobody can do that. They’re not equipped to do that. But there’s the point where this team took first a third, really well. You played heady ball, got on base, took pitches, I don’t know, man, I mean, it just was a different approach to your point, right? And not a very successful approach. In the small sample size of these are the most important games, yeah, we’re going to evaluate them under the bright lights with more scrutiny, because this is what you set your whole year up to be, and check the box. Got burns. Good start, because that’s what we said. Brought a minute to start game one. Game one. What more do you want in one run? You know what I mean, like you were worried about the bullpen. It didn’t go far enough to worry about the depth of the bullpen, but two games in the bullpen did enough to give a chance to win. All they needed was somebody to get a hit be a hero, as I I said, and they had the base load with nobody out. I mean, it’s a hell of a postcard. It really is. I mean, it’s a hell of a off season in a lot of ways, with injuries and all of that. I’m gonna let you wrap up, because I want to get to the bigger picture. And what are they going to do, a little bit, and certainly, the Dear David Rubenstein letter I wrote, which is, everything’s new, what are you going to do, dude? Like, I, I, I think to myself, get 10,000 empty seats the other day. Like, first thing I’m doing, if I’m Katie Griggs, is freaking out, calling a press conference and saying, new people are in town. These are my new people. Let’s go. We, we’re, we’re a great organization. We’re the Baltimore Orioles. And I know what this organization suffer less. They go to sleep around now, and the Ravens do whatever the Ravens do. And maybe they sign this, maybe they sign that, and maybe they put a little caravan to get, you know, like, I know what, and the players are tired, and now the players are a little ashamed. I think, I think, at least for them, a moment or two that like selling tickets right now and getting enthusiasm, which is where the fans are the fans are, because I was at the bar the other night, spent 125 bucks. Had a guy that said he bought a dozen tickets for like, 1000 bucks, 80 bucks a piece, and then the tickets are $5 a game. Like, there’s, there’s a lot of disgruntled fandom out there, yeah, but part of it is like, what are you gonna do with the team? I get, get all that, and those are gonna be your baseball questions. But everything’s different here. And if this guy’s nuts, I don’t know what they I mean, I know he likes making commercials and runner up. If this guy’s nuts, he’s sitting there pissed at Brandon Hyde because Brandon I didn’t shine his shoes the right way, the way Billick looked at bashati the wrong way. Pissed him off. And he was, like, all of that’s in play, dude. Like, it really is. It’s all in play that if the owner doesn’t like Elias or thinks he can do it better, or this would be the time crazy stuff would happen. If it’s going to be crazy, I don’t think that’s going to happen. He seems sane enough that I thought I was going to have a press credential, but I don’t so, so you know what I mean, like, I don’t know they haven’t knew everything other than the things you know about, which is rutschman Westbrook, he’s got cows is going to get his hand fixed, and, like, we know what the core players are going to be, not how they’re going to play, and rushman and all that. But there’s a lot to evaluate here, and all of it to your point, based on scored one run, and we had the bases loaded, and the games matter, and what happened on the field matters, but we didn’t get a large enough sample. Large enough sample size. We just know it wasn’t good enough on Tuesday, Wednesday, for sure.
Luke Jones 14:06
Yeah, and I mean, new ownership ties into this. Where you ask, where do we go from here? I mean, you think about where the trajectory from the time that Mike Elias arrived until the pitch that Felix Bautista walked off the bound with his elbow injured last August. I mean, you can point out a few things here and there. I mean, certainly no one anticipated Trey Mancini having cancer, right? I mean, and the pandemic year was odd. Player development was very much disrupted across baseball, but certainly for a team that was two years into a rebuild at that point in time, losing a minor league season was less than ideal. But you go through all those different things that happened, Heston kerstadt had myocarditis, had injury issues, but by and large, from the time that Mike Elias arrived and Brandon Hyde was hired a couple weeks later in November and December. Of 2018 until that moment with Felix Bautista walking off the mound injured, I wouldn’t say perfect, because nothing is
Nestor Aparicio 15:08
means in there too, because means was a bad, you know, a bad thing when that happened, it was but, but
15:14
even then, pictures get hurt, right? I
Nestor Aparicio 15:16
mean that those guys that look like Cy Young, kind of candidate pitchers, and they use two of them. It sucks,
Luke Jones 15:22
right? But from that point on, or from up to that point, it had gone as close to perfect as it could, if we’re calling a speed of speed. Now, in a perfect world, John Angelos would have been allowing a little more payroll flexibility along the way, maybe that year or two leading up to that point, whatever. But still, to that point, the trajectory was on schedule, ahead of schedule. Frankly, when you win 101 games in you know, your first year making the playoffs. But from the moment that the Batista thing happened, and look credit those guys, they they cobbled together the bullpen the rest of last year that it did well and all that. But from that moment on, it just feels like this has been way more up and down in terms of, you know, Kimbrel. Kimbrel being signed to replace Batista was obviously a colossal with, you know, the burns thing worked out great, but then they lost every other starting pitcher that they had, basically, you know, the offense as as good as it was in the first half, not good in the second half. And really struggled late. Uh, they’ve had the injuries. You know, we could look at the trade deadline and kind of say, okay, you know, Evelyn good, Dominguez, good. Rest of it, not so good. Trevor Rogers, terrible from a short term standpoint, you know, we’ll see what he does the next couple years, and maybe that looks different. Differently, but certainly was a zero in terms of helping them. And they could have used, you know, to your point, and you made this, and you and I sparred about it a little bit. You know, when they traded Connor Norby, they they could have ended up using Connor Norby, considering the state of what their infield was down the stretch. But, you know, you just look at things now and you know, I’m not as moved by just saying, Okay, well, they went from 101 wins to 91 I always thought they were gonna lose or win fewer games this season than last season. Because, unless you’re the Dodgers with a $350 million payroll, and you’re just absurd in the way that you add free agent talent, and they developed their players really well. You just don’t have back to, you know, consecutive 100 win season. That’s very rare, even among teams that have high payrolls. So I, you know, I picked them to win 94 games, right? So I’m not as moved by the decline in wins and, you know, wins, win loss record, but just in terms of where they are. Now, where do you go from here, knowing that you’ve got these pitchers like Kyle Bradish? What’s the best case scenario for him? Maybe he’s back in July or August. You know, that’s the best case. He may not pitch next year. You know, we don’t know that right now. I mean, when you have Tommy John surgery in June, that’s, we saw this with John, means last year, usually elective that is,
Nestor Aparicio 18:02
oh my god.
Luke Jones 18:03
I mean, it’s, you know, it’s not that they can’t, won’t come back and they won’t be excellent. I mean, Cole Reagan’s head back to back, Tommy John surgeries early in his minor league career. And look at him now. So it’s not like, Oh my gosh. It’s so dire. His career is over, but you can’t count on Kyle Bradish in your rotation next year, and if he comes back in August, then, my goodness, great, you got like a dead deadline acquisition. So but you look at him, you look at other guys, you look at the state of their lineup right now. You know, Santander is going to be a free agent, you know, you look at some of the you know, Cedric Mullins, I think I saw his projected arbitration number in his last year of club control was like almost $9 million I’m not saying that’s prohibitive, but you’ve got to think about it, and you got to think about what that looks like long term. And you know, Ryan mountcastle is projected to be at $6.6 million I already said to you in a previous set, previous segment, I look at him. I’m just I’m not sure, can you do better there? And maybe it is, maybe it’s as simple as Kobe mayo, but I wish Kobe Mayo had looked gave me a few more signs when he played in August and September. I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 19:08
know what I’m getting out of my own holiday next year. I
Luke Jones 19:11
mean, dream and you know, we can say they’re prospects, but they’re suspects, until they’re prospects, they are. And maybe the best example, like a recent example, to use, would be how the Orioles got Adam Frazier. And if you recall, I didn’t love that signing, and I still don’t think that signing turned out that well, but they hedged their bets, at least in terms of until Jordan westburg was here, and for all the I just made mention about their prospects struggling, Jordan Westberg was kind of the rare guy that he held his own, basically from day one. He wasn’t great last year by any means. He was kind of league average, but he at least held his own. And then we saw him become an all star, caliber player this year. But, you know, is there an Adam Frazier move that you need to make, you know, there or or maybe it’s as simple as, hey, Jorge Mateo is going to be coming back. And if Jackson holiday struggles, you got Jorge Mateo there too. So, but where did they go from here? Because they were on such that rocket ship trajectory, and they they sprung some leaks at the very least, right? I mean, and that might be the kindest way to to put this face plant for a second straight year in October. So where do you go from here? And this is where it leads. It lends itself into what you know your talking point with ownership, with a new owner, that I don’t think you anticipate being a wacko, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to be the best owner either, right? I mean, there’s a that’s a really wide range. I
Nestor Aparicio 20:40
can already say that. I mean, my, my six months of dealing with them and them, allowing all of the Angelo’s people to do Angelo’s things, you dude, you’re down there every day. This isn’t if you’re leaking me. I talked to everybody in the media. I had Viviana on the show for two hours, two weeks like and, you know, I mean, I run into Pete Gilbert out around town. I run into Sean side. I run I run into ravens employees. I saw Garrett downing on one day of my oyster tour with his beautiful family out having a brunch, delicious. So oyster that day true Chesapeake as well. So it was game day Tuesday. They played the the Cowboys. So like, I get out, I know what’s up? I’m not. I’m not. You know, I’m I’ll be maritime magic on Friday night. I’ll be Lena raston’s Grab fees, where Tom Davis will be with me. I’ll get to see Tom on on Saturday night. So, like, I get it. We’ve been here since hofburger. I’ve been here when it’s good, when it’s bad. I dealt with Tom Ebert, who was a saint, a saint of a man who owned a team, who was a wealthy man, you know, like I was around art modell, who told me to criticize him, because that way I’d have credibility. Because if all I did was kiss his ass, no one would ever listen to me. Kind of took that one to heart. That’s only been in both of my books, actually, all of them, because that was for Peter, who never understood that I don’t know what this guy is. I just know he had a handler, handle me, call me in May intimidate me. I didn’t have a credential. You do. I didn’t. I was accused of being a racist, which is insane, or accusing them of racism. I’m pointing out the fact that I’m a professional, and I’m being denied while they’re running national, National Hispanic Heritage Month and Espanol commercials, and Venezuelan starting pitchers are starting, and somehow you have a pass. And I don’t, I know in Arlington last year what it felt like. It felt like didn’t feel good for you to watch me get carded. You stand over there and you stand over here. Who would feel good about that in any circumstance like ever so, um, I wrote a letter. I haven’t written anything to Mr. Rubenstein. I mean, I’ve made some comments about not having my press credential because it’s wrong. Whatever comment I would make, it’s wrong. I think you can tell I, you know, I get a little anger, and I just I’ve earned that, but I haven’t done anything to Mr. Rubenstein except try to support his team. Bought a couple beers down there in April, so I contributed to the cause when I went to the game, until I was treated like a sewer rat, quite frankly, like, I, like, I don’t belong. Like, it’s the way I’ve been treated for 18 years. Um, like, a lot of people have been treated so I guess that’s the point I made. Um, they don’t treat you that way. I guess, I mean, that’s fine. I mean, you, you know, like, that’s great that they treat you. Well, I’ve always been great, gravely concerned that they would treat you as poorly as they treat me. They did treat you well in Arlington, but they didn’t because they tried to take a pass from you and I as your friend, boss, our company, answering front face. You saw that I bird up pretty good, and I’m still burned up pretty good a year later, now that Peter’s dead, John’s gone, these people own the team. They want to buy people beer. They want to throw out hats, they want to make commercials. They want to stand in front of it. Now’s the time to stand in front of it. Stand in front Greg Bader, never wanted to stand in front of it. Neither did TJ Brightman, neither did Peter, neither did John. None of them wanted to stand in front of it. Here, Elias, you go tell them about baseball, but we’re not going to say a word about the 600 million we’re getting and how we’re trying to bend over the governor to get all the land and to span the Maryland stadium authority. It’s a crazy shit went on last year. Man, what’s wrong with these people? $600 million of public money draw with you people. So all that being said, 8000 empty seats, or was it 10? Was it 36 with I don’t, I don’t care you, there were a lot of empty seats. Tickets were 10 bucks, and this back in the day when they wouldn’t put Baltimore on the jerseys, which I didn’t even mention, like so much stuff Angelo said that I’ve forgotten about that i. How could I be mad about it? I’ve forgotten about it. That’s how long ago it’s been. I’m over it, but I do remember, you know, back in the day when we’re trying to get Baltimore back on the jerseys and Peter’s trying to get massing and the mass and money was going to fund the team and make it better and all of that stuff, um, that payroll. Are we a small market? Are we a large market? What does it mean? Dude watching this week and the ticket sales and the empty seats and just where they are with discounting tickets and August and September and trying to get people out there? And I, like wise markets is our sponsor. The kids run the bases. I Yes, yes and yes. Pride night, Dog Night, Star Wars. Night, Christmas in July. Do it all? Sell tickets. HBC. Night, like, let’s go, man, Bring, bring my cop and friends more. Do anything you want to do, but those empty seats when you’re trying to sell season books and saying, we’re going to hold you up for playoff tickets and then charge 125 bucks to people when the tickets are going to be $5 on game day, and banning media members. Just all the crap, all the crud that’s left over from Peter that there has been damage done here, and it’s obvious, and someone needs to fix it and someone needs this isn’t about fixing the batting order. It’s not about the pitching was good enough, the hitting wasn’t rushman’s hurt, hide, sucks, lies. So I’m not getting into that. I’m not I mean, it’s stupid. I sat here and watch awful baseball for three decades. I am not chasing Mike Elias or Brandon Hyde or any of the holiday mayo, any of these young guys, because there’s a point in my heart where I feel like they’re pile divers. They’re all special guys. They’re all one ones. Couch has got a personality. Rutchmans, hurt Henderson’s going to the Hall of Fame. Westburg, really good. Mayo’s got ceiling. I start to sound like Lou Baker now Major League. We’re going to get them next year, Lucas, here we go. We got a hell of a ball club. Here we’re we got a new owner. We’re going to spend some money on some pitching. We might even keep burns here. If we even get an opportunity, we’ll have Palmer send a meeting. We’ll go out I recruit me, let alone recruiting Corbin burns, let alone recruiting Black and Decker or underarm or whatever, whatever Katie Griggs is going to do, recruit me, recruit everyone. You want to talk about inclusivity. You want to talk about pride. You want to talk about equity. You want to talk about the Hispanic population in this city that’s growing, that you could maybe bring over because you have a whole Hispanic wing that you’re trying to do things as well as a pride wing and a Star Wars wing and a old guy wing and a young guy wing and a Birdland wing. And we have clubs, and we have affinity this, and we’re going to caravan that, and we’re great, great. Do all of that. Put a face on it. Put a leadership on it, the way Larry Lucchino did, the way art modell and David Modell did with Brian Billick, and just put him out in front of it. Front of it in that way. And Ray Lewis, they had players, but they also had good people in their front office that handled their suite holders, that handled their people, that didn’t tell their broadcasters. I didn’t have Kevin burn on the phone with me every day telling me what to say, what not. Literally at the end, I did not. He didn’t tell me what to say and what not to say. He just told me, you, you and me sucked, and that I should send clips over to Chad Steele to still get a press pass. He did do all that that’s on the record, but I wasn’t getting intimidated every day about what I was saying. And what kind of man is David Rubenstein, what kind of man is Michael araghetti, and I met him, and I it was the chilliest thing I hadn’t written about that yet. That was something I met Michael araghetti On opening day, and his handler, Priscilla, I think I referenced it in my declaration of it. Look, I’m just not going to get down there and be mistreated like I was in Arlington that you witnessed. Why would I do? Why? Seriously, you saw me that night, and I saw you that night. Never seen you like that in my life. And I told I told that handler, oh man, he didn’t care about you. This is my employee getting manhandled in Dallas, Texas by your organization. And you wonder why we’re a little flippant, and we’re the only ones there covering your baseball team, and you got 10,000 empty seats for a playoff game, and tickets are 12 bucks, and nobody wants a nobody wants them. Come on, man, be different. Be better. Be better. Be good people. I begged Peter to be good people. There was no clean I was stupid free the birds was stupid because I thought I could fix him. I thought I could like, I really thought he would like. My wife would tell you, during that period, I was thinking a lot about my father and what my father would be proud of, and I know that’s important to you. And back 2006 I sat in my condo looking out at the city being empty after I invested, after I had been assaulted, after they didn’t pay the bill. After Mike Flanagan, I m f Tim because, like, he couldn’t fix it. He promised me. He sat at Michaels and said, I’m going to fix this. You’re never going to be mistreated again. Mike Flanagan promised me that at Michaels and Timonium the night before he took the job, he called me Ray Bachmann said, Pray for Ray. Everybody. Give Ray some love. Ray said to me, Hey, Mike Flanagan’s a lot of 650 my show went in seven. Flan he’s like, meet me at Michael’s. If you do anything tonight, I’m like, man, you know, you know, meet me seven o’clock. We’ll buy a crab cake the Michaels. And he told me, I never be mistreated again. Mike Flanagan told me that, and the morning after I was assaulted, they weren’t paying the bill. Mike was like, and I’m MF, and him, Oh, my my wife would tell you was it was ugly. My wife had to fix it. My wife went to a bar naked ladies concert with Alex and Mike to fix it. I would, I refuse to go. They went for a whole night at Merriweather and my wife created detente with Mike Flanagan, or otherwise I’d feel even worse. So these are my emotions and what I’ve been through with the ownership. What kind of man are you? David, what kind of owner Are you going to be? Who’s going to be in front of this? Who’s calling the press conference? Who’s going to be at the press conference? Are you going to you’re going to, going to rub down Kevin Brown for citing the statistics that we we only scored one run in the postseason. We’re not allowed to mention that anymore for the fan base that watched it, because that that’s offensive to whom and for what purpose, get 10,000 empty seats in the upper deck for the biggest game of your ownership of this generation, tickets for 10 bucks, and the people that paid 100 are pissed, and you’re lost bad and here we go. You gotta hide the way the old man did for 30 years. I mean literally. I mean that’s I’m used to that. I’m used to being mistreated. I’m used to not having a press pass. I’m used to not being there when they clean the lockers out. I’m used to not being there when the you know, back from Hargrove on. I’m used to just not being there. I’m used to watching it all on TV and having you witness it, you know. And I created this company with a press pass that clearly I deserve clearly. I mean, stop now you’re gaslighting me, telling me I’m not a media member. You know, we already had 5000 people read the letter, and the letters been up five minutes. So they need a reality check. And I hope this is going to be different, because if it’s not, it’s not right. Talk about whatever we want. If they’re, if they’re going to, like, not spend money, if they’re going to be a small market team, self proclaimed, and they’re going to whine that we don’t have any money, and we don’t, we can’t sign bernsey. We’re small market. Well, the Yankees aren’t red. Sox aren’t so what are you going to do? Oh, we’ll win with we’ll feed the old McPhail. We’ll feed him salisbury steak and and tell him it’s filet mignon. Yeah. Well, you fed him filet mignon, and they told you to shove it up your ass in the upper deck on Tuesday, Wednesday, for 10 bucks at $10 stakes, and nobody wanted them. I mean, that’s crazy. And some of that Stan played well in the second half, and kids are at school, and again, time sucks, and I might get killed in Baldwin, like all of that. Come on, man. Come on. Come on. Come on. Yeah, I don’t want to hear that your brand has some problems. Fix them. I’m here to help you fix them. Really, from the bottom of my heart, Luke will tell you that Luke’s mother will tell you, that my wife will tell you, that my kid will tell you that anybody that knows me would tell you that I don’t have bad intentions. I have a whole closet full of Oriole stuff. I’ve been waiting I did free the birds for this guy to own the team, not just to let me back in, but to fix it. I don’t even care if he doesn’t let me back in. Be a complete dick to me. Fix the team. Fix everything about it, but you can’t fix everything about and be a dick to me, because chances are, you’re just the next guy like, Come on, man, fix it for everyone who loves the team and everyone who wants to support the city, and everyone that wants that $600 million to turn to something that’s not the black wing, where I have to spend $1,000 and buy wings and $28 chocolate martinis Sunday morning at 1130 to participate, moving the press box up to the moon and throwing me out and telling me that they don’t have room for me. Now, come on, don’t be that. Be better than that. You have empty seats in the upper deck. That’s your reality. That is the reality. And I would say this because I was referencing this, and I’ll go back to the Luke you’re before you work with me, maybe when you were in college. Do you ever go to the Ali’s bargain nights? Yes. Did you go to any of the Friday night student nights that turned into a beer fiasco. And Angelos had beer police up there. Like, you know, my buddy got thrown out because he didn’t have his idea on him. He was 35 years old, and he’s drinking beer with the kids up there, and he got, literally got thrown out of the same i. Like when the ticket prices went that 20 years ago, when they had real arrogance, right? When it was like they had all the sky boxes, when they had 3 million people, when before the Nationals existed, when we were not Baltimore, you know, I’m talking about oh, 3456, in that range, when Drew Forrester was on the morning, and we would get together, and I think I might have been off the air at that point, Jeremy was here, whatever any I had this realization, okay, and this is the long way I’ve been long winded. You knew I would be. But back then, the thing that scared me the most for them, the thing that really scared me, was when the tickets were five bucks. Ali’s bargain night, and the attended, still, the team was awful, right? I mean, this is the Sigi Kona, you know, like all of that Flanagan was around, right? Hargrove era, probably, they started giving the tickets away, you know. I mean, they started like, okay, tickets are five bucks. And this was, you know, Peter was broke. Peter was upside did this, look, I wrote a lot of negative things about Peter. Peter went into his pocket to try to make the team good, two and three, four, because he was so desperate. He had so offended everybody the club. Boxes were gone. He didn’t have mass in. I mean, the thing was just dying. He was just dying and just bleeding money. Put his own money. I mean, Joe Foss, everybody has confirmed this, that he put his own money, and he cared so much he did care. I mean, I I wrote from that direction in Peter principles. I mean, I’m not, there’s good and bad and ugly, but there’s only truth. There’s only truth, literally. But I got really worried the thing that scared me the most for them. And when I did free the birds, they had mistreated me. Didn’t pay the like, Oh, that was that era 456, exactly that era. The thing that scared me the most when I did free the birds was how empty the place was, and wondering where all those people went and if they would ever come back, what would ever bring them back, and at what price point they would be willing to come back? And it came back a little bit in 12 and 1416, a little bit. You know, place is still really dysfunctional. I mean, the fact that Machado never got signed, I’m watching him run around with the padres, and they’re calling him Hall of Famer and all that stuff. And I’m thinking to myself, the Davis, this the mistakes. You know, there’s a lot of mistakes baseball wise, right? We hope that lies doesn’t make them next week, but my biggest fear for them, I swear to God, Luke, you and I did and your religious man, you’re Deacon Jones. On Monday, when you and I did the show, I was very, very tepid about thinking there’d be empty seats, because I’m a I’m a believer my heart, right? I really believed what it was a price point issue. Melanie and Dundalk, my dear friend who goes to games at a $20 price point, she would think it’s the greatest day of her life to go to playoff game. It would mean so much to her for $20 or $15 at $100 she couldn’t afford it. And, and I know, you know, a lot of people that way, that love baseball, and there are simple means, and it just is what it is. It’s not it’s baseball was made for everybody. Charles Steinberg would tell you that, Janet Marie would tell you that, that everybody’s invited. But in the playoffs, when you’re trying to get 120 when you’re trying to get football prices for game one didn’t work out. And I thought the ticket prices will drop, and people, and they did. Some people came the fifth day off, the weather wasn’t I’ll hear all of that. That was sad. I mean, it’s really sad. And and on Monday, I really thought people would come, and then they started to lose on Tuesday. And Joe Enoch and I are pen pals, as you know, and I said to him, I’m like, If they lose, nobody’s going to come Wednesday. Like, like, they’re not going to be a cavalry. It’s going to be worse. And the announcers pointed out once or twice and Ben’s and Ben could have never appointed that out on mass, and he saw his partner get thrown out for it. My wife came home Tuesday, she said they’re shooting it kind of tight. And I’m like, I don’t think they have the massing camera operators, but they tried to go out of their way to not show empty seats, which Peter did for 15 years. I just sad to see $10 tickets, $8 tickets, and nobody wanting to go, and then the aftermath of how they played, and now they have to pick up the pieces. And I really hope they should call my friend Rob Weinhold and get some crisis management, because I feel like it’s they have a crisis situation right now in regard to selling tickets, the value of the tickets, the playoffs where they are, forget fire the manager and the coach, the stupid talk and forget even how angry I am about my press credential. Where? Where’s the accountability? Where’s the step up? How is it today? And I mean today, Luke, I mean today. I mean the first day. It was your 42nd birthday. Was it 41st 41st the first day of your 42nd year? You. Uh, there should be a real cut off to say that was the old ownership, that was the old leadership, and we’re here now, and those seats in the upper deck, that’s we were. Katie Griggs needs to say, I’m embarrassed by that, and I just got the town. We’re going to fix that, and I’m here to fix it, and I’m the sheriff the way Larry Lucchino did, the way Sashi Brown has been hiding, and they have empty seats and they have a half broken brand for what they should have with Lamar Jackson. I mean, really, it should be better than that. It should look like Kansas City here, it should look like buffalo here, the football team, and I know the Wembley knee and all that, but I’m not the only one the Ravens have mistreated. I’m just the one they’ve done it famously to. I used to say that about Peter all the time. I’m like, You guys all beat me up for going on the radio and speaking truth. I’m not the only one that was mistreated by Peter Angelos and by the administration and the organization and is put off by any or all of it. But that Ali’s bargain thing that I brought up with you, that was sort of my roundabout way, is saying like I feared this 20 years ago. And if you went back and read my letter to my father that I that three the birds, 19 chapters that I wrote, I think, in every one of them, and have all the audio, my biggest fear was that they would become irrelevant. Even when they’re great, they’re a great team right now, dude, this is doesn’t these are the good days. And I did look back and saw the only 31,000 people at the game that I attended with my father in 74 the Vita blue and catfish Hunter era and Palmer. And I’m thinking between 74 and 79 things changed. Couldn’t get a ticket. 79 bro, trust me, for real, I was there. My dad tried to get tickets. My dad had some money. There wasn’t a market for it, but the 7983 96 and 97 Come on, dude, you You sat here, told me the other day that it would have meant the world to you if you and your dad could have gone to those games, and you just couldn’t get tickets at any price, and that’s gone and somebody needs to bring it back. And that’s going to involve and some gloves. And it’s going to involve, as I wrote in my dear David Rubenstein letter that I hope everybody reads, I don’t know that I’m going to read it out loud on the air. I, you know, maybe I’ll channel my Peter Angelo’s voice once or twice to make people laugh. I’ll make him think a little bit, because it’s kind of it’s going to be long and arduous. To be long and arduous if I read it, but this is the time. This is the time, so maybe there’s empty seats are a good thing to say, awakening. I don’t know. It was never that way before. And I, I, I’ve been texting with Dave shining, Marty Conway, all the usual suspects, Riv Vaughn, all of them. And I said, if the old man had seen those empty seats in 1997 think about that, Luke, that you and your dad wouldn’t have wanted to go for 10 bucks in 1997 the old man would have called a press conference the next day. And I had a varying degree of opinions through really smart people, and one of them said he would have blamed Bud Selig. He’d blame the city. He to blame crime. He’d have blamed um, not my fault, right? Like, not not David, it’s your fault. Katie, it doesn’t matter if it’s your fault, it’s now. It’s now your job. It’s on you. My press pass not being there, it’s on you. Empty seats on you, the fact that they didn’t hit the ball on you, right? I mean, like, literally, you buy a team for 1,000,000,007 you hand out hats. You can’t just run and hide, right now, dude, right? Like, seriously, I’ll drop them like,
Luke Jones 43:43
Oh, you’re you were saying that to me. I don’t need to hear them do it. Do it, press conferences. And I say that as a media guy, and I mean this in a holistic way, like in a big picture way, do it, you know, I don’t need to hear them talk about it. Do it. It will become very evident, right? You know, you you said everything you needed to say. I don’t we talked about everything I had to say. Was in our previous segment about attendance. Because I think all that’s related. I’ll say this from a baseball standpoint, as it pertains to all that show a long term commitment. I’m gonna say it. I think, I don’t think it fixes everything. You just said you signed gunner Henderson to a $300 million contract because he’s 23 years old, and there’s no reason to think that he wouldn’t be the player to invest that kind of a deal when dealing regardless of the fact that he went over seven in these two games. That on from an on field standpoint, would be a heck of a statement to say things are going to be different in the long term around here. Everything you know Manny Machado a decade ago, or Manny Machado leaving being traded six years ago, you know that would be a heck of a job. Extra, and then we can talk about ticket prices going up and going down right, right, but they did that out of order to me, and again, so much of what we saw and I talked to a couple fans through some DMs and different things like that, the last couple days we all
Nestor Aparicio 45:16
have, I mean, you and I, we live here, Mr. Rubenstein and Miss Briggs are not yet. I
Luke Jones 45:22
still think so much of what we saw with the attendance. And again, I don’t want to rehash this. We have a whole segment. People can go to Baltimore positive.com and listen to it, because it holds up even after elimination a day later. But I think so much of what we saw goes back to what was an absolute botched August when it came to their Birdland memberships. And I know people who even went to these games the last two days are still ticked about it. So then when you have the face plant on field, which makes it tougher in terms of getting people excited. If Ruben signed to come in last year, when they won 101 games, they would have been printing money this off season, I bet, in terms of selling tickets, I really do, even if they didn’t make enough changes within the organization and all that. But if that had been aligned together, rather than a year later, after this, taking a step back, or two steps back in the second half and face planning again, you know, it’s a little bit different, but you know,
Nestor Aparicio 46:18
do it, you can still do on the field, but you stumbling off the fields on you. Man, you still,
Luke Jones 46:23
you still have to win. You still have to. Fans are frustrated with this product now, which was not the case last year, was not the case two years ago. Well, you’ve also raised the bar, the bar for what they expect, sure, so that’s but again, that goes back to they raised the prices before they won anything, and I think that and lowered the perks. Also, which it was those two things in concert, I think one or the other fans could have lived with, but the people I’ve talked to had said, hey, they raised my prices, and they also cut out my discounts. And you know that all that stuff was diminished as well. So they’ve, they’ve got work to do, but all of that to get playoff tickets that you could have had for 10 bucks. Sure, sure. I mean, again, there’s a lot that goes into that, but, you know, do it. I don’t I don’t need to hear them win the press conference. Do it. Do it.
Nestor Aparicio 47:13
I want to see accountability. I want to see press conference. They can’t even do that. I mean, like, literally, if you can’t just come out and state who you are and what you do. What kind of brand Are you sure? Seriously, seriously? Get any walk of life you kiss their ass because they’re baseball and they’re the Orioles and Brooks Robinson and all that. What are you doing today? Those empty seats at 10 bucks? Don’t bury your head in the sand to tell me it’s school day, bad weather, we haven’t played well. It’s a playoff game in Baltimore. We’ve had how many ever. So I just I’m not as upset about the way they played and elimination. You didn’t think they were winning the World Series. I remain hopeful that they had a positive they were in the tournament, and that they had enough pitching and they had players that could hit, none of none of that happened. But I’m not. I’ll let you crush him on the field and hold him responsible for that. I’m trying to hold him responsible for the greater integrity of the whole operation, to say that this guy bought the team handing out hats. Wants To Be A Hero. All right. Where are you after they lose? Where are you after the you know, is it a tweet out that? Thank you. You’re the best fans in baseball, and I’m gonna go away now like that kid, that’s what the other guy did. And I like, literally, he could be nicer about it and smile more and give acts and, you know, do $150 dinners and greet the right people around town. Cool, but, like a lot needs to be fixed here. I mean, and it’s, and I’ll leave you with this, because I know you don’t care. I mean, if Katie Griggs came in right now that they have cupcakes with you, you want to talk baseball with? Let me, like, let me be but, but, but, let me. This really falls on her. You know what I mean? Like on the business side, that she has to go out and sell this, she has to stand behind whatever the Birdland thing happened in August. Wasn’t on her, by the way, right? I guess she wasn’t here. She has to go and see every season ticket holder, because the players aren’t going to be the ones that do it that. You know what I mean? Adley Rodman’s gone for a while till spring training. I may be back for dinner or this or that, or whatever. They have to go out and sell this off season to the fans on the back end of whatever happened Tuesday and Wednesday. That’s all that’s going to be left. And I feel for her, and everybody I text with felt for her based on what the way they played and the empty seats and the fact that we’re talking about it in a bad way right now. You know that’s all,
Luke Jones 49:43
yeah, and let me be clear, just to finish my to back up what I just said, not saying I’m not interested in a press conference, or that they shouldn’t do one. But actions speak louder than words. Do it. They have to do it, talking about anything.
Nestor Aparicio 49:55
Well, they need to have a great press conference. They need to have a great follow up. Then they need. Have another great follow up, and then it needs to be on the news for real, not with somebody there there, because nobody’s going to hear from Kevin Brown for six months either. They didn’t put their spring training games on. They decide to not program when they’re playing baseball. Like that’s the craziest thing John Angelos ever did, but it cost money to do that. That would be like an investment in your fan base to get people interested in Kobe mayo. But like so I just did so many things wrong, really, for so long. And the number one thing they did wrong was they were never accountable. They never came out today after the season ended with hope. Kevin Byrne always told me that with art, and that was art’s big thing, Kevin, we have to sell them hope. We have to give them a sign. Andre rising that’ll give them hope. We got to give them hope. There’s plenty of hope here. But to your point, hope here isn’t gunner Henderson next year. Hope here is, come on man, sign gunner Henderson. And I don’t know, and we do a whole segment on that, is he signable? I mean, his guy doesn’t sign anybody, right? Kind of, sort of, like, there’s some guys we can’t marry. She’s Greek and I’m not Greek. I can’t marry her. You know what? I mean, like, like, literally, I just feel that way about head. I think you’re asking him to do something he can’t do. I mean, in that case, really,
Luke Jones 51:19
no, well, then there’s, then there’s no hope. Then you know, then, okay, you know,
51:24
all right,
Luke Jones 51:24
I’m just, I mean, and I, I’m saying, from an on field standpoint, if you’re talking about selling hope, right, the on field stuff still matters. You can give away as many trinkets as you want. No one gives a darn about your franchise if you don’t win. And that was always our biggest arguing point about the Orioles. For You know, when you would talk about attendance in years where it was bad, it’s like, of course, no one wants to go watch a bad team, but yes, when all those other things absolutely matter, and let’s be clear, but from an on field standpoint, my my objection to what they did in August was you raised prices and lowered the perks that go with it. He hasn’t won anything yet. You did that as though you would already hit the home run and you’re still in I mean, one You haven’t even won a playoff game. So that was kind of my you know, if you were going to do that, like have have gunner Henderson sign long term, or go out and sign a big free agent, and then that’s the news. You know that that goes because we all know that that’s happening. Everything’s more expensive. Groceries are more everything we know, like we talk about inflation in our daily lives, every day, whether it’s true, half true for fault, whatever, like that’s everything is more expensive than it was five years ago or 10 years ago or 20 years ago. Of course, the tickets are going to go up, but when there hasn’t been that long term like all right, here you go. That leaves fans cranky, especially when they scored one freaking run in two playoff games in a sweep against a team that lost 106 games last year in terms of postseason success, the Kansas City Royals just lapped them in terms of where they were in their rebuild and where the Orioles are. Now it’s October. Small sample size all that, believe me, I’m the guy that’s not going to go absolutely nuts about what happened here, but that doesn’t mean you can’t react. That doesn’t mean that you don’t react at all. So anyway, that that’s my big thing, if we’re talking about long term, to show me, this is going to be great, and it’s going to be great for a long time, from an on field baseball standpoint. I mean, is there a three, $50 million deal that that can be signed to keep gunner Henderson? And maybe not, you might be right on that, but I want to see a try. I want evidence that you tried. And again, you don’t negotiate through the media, but there are ways to leak it to Ken Rosenthal that you’ve been trying, right? You know? I mean, we know how that games work. So see again, don’t, don’t just talk about it. You can talk about it, but do do these things, and we’ll see if they will. Lou
Nestor Aparicio 54:04
Jones with the report that we should grow the brand before we gouge the brand. There you go. So that’s, that’s fine, right? You got, am I wrong? I mean, like, I mean, like, if we’re getting the light the ice cream before you raise the price, I mean, like, get me hooked on it. You know, that brown butter riddle thing, you know? And then if you got to charge me another dollar or shrink it. I mean, just I can live with it. It’s my drug. I need it. He is Luke. I am Nestor Aparicio. David Ruben. Can read my thoughts and my history as usual, put my heart out on my sleeve. I’m a Baltimore guy. I want the team to do well. I waited 18 years for new ownership. I’m hoping that this looks and feels different, and I’m going to be monitoring it. Watch circle of trust. I’m Nestor. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, why not have a crab cake with Luke? Luke, sorry, your birthday sucked. Can I just say that before we go? You know, everybody knows I love. You Happy Birthday. Man, appreciate it. It
Luke Jones 55:02
was fine. Just, you know, the baseball part certainly didn’t live up to expectations. Let’s
Nestor Aparicio 55:07
put it that way. Man, you and I were going to go to New York Bronx. Man, I was going to take you to my favorite Korean ice joint. I was going to do that places I found in New York since last time you went, I could do better than that big rat we found in the Bronx. You and I were going to stay in Manhattan. We were going to do that Raven bar on Seventh Avenue with the big purple thing that sits out about three blocks south of the garden of my 27th 28th had it all teed up, man. You and I were going to get, like, some Korean barbecue. We were going to, like, do it. I was going to take you down from my favorite dumplings in Chinatown. You were going to try to work and get all antsy and pissed off at me, because you get all riled up for playoff games, and you get in your little bubble and you’re like a starting pitcher. I can’t talk to you on game day, so, but I you know, I wanted it all to happen. I wanted it all to happen for I wanted to make you miserable in New York for three days, especially the off day. We had to watch the Ravens. You and I doing hotel radio. Come on, man, we missed out. Damn you. Bases Loaded. Nobody out not scoring a run. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We try to have fun around here, even when we’re not. We’re Baltimore. Positive hope. See you. Maritime magic on Friday night. You.
