Three decades after doing sports radio here at WNST-AM 1570, it’s always a pleasure to welcome Mark Mussina (yes, he’s the younger brother of Hall of Famer Mike Mussina) back to Baltimore share his wisdom of a life in sports and observation. Always insightful, humorous and teaches us something we didn’t know.
Nestor Aparicio and Mark Mussina discussed the Orioles’ disappointing season, the impact of injuries, and the future of the team. They highlighted the importance of Adley Rutschman and the need for better pitching. Mussina praised Lamar Jackson’s unique style and productivity, comparing him to other great quarterbacks. They also touched on the challenges of modern baseball, including early specialization and pitching injuries. Mussina emphasized the importance of coaching and development in baseball, noting the changes in youth baseball practices. Finally, they reflected on the legacy of Cal Ripken and the upcoming 2131 celebration.
- [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Arrange a tour of the Dallas Cowboys’ facility for Mark Mussina and his family.
- [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Attend the Tom Keifer concert in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania with Mark Mussina.
- [ ] Attend the event celebrating Cal Ripken Jr.’s 2,131 consecutive games played.
Mark Mussina’s Return and Labor Day Celebrations
- Nestor Aparicio welcomes Mark Mussina to the show, mentioning his brother’s connection to Cal Ripken and the upcoming 2131 celebration.
- Nestor and Mark joke about Mark’s graying hair and the differences in their family lives.
- Nestor sets the stage for discussing the Orioles’ season, Lamar Jackson, and the broader context of baseball and football.
Orioles’ Season and Management Issues
- Nestor expresses frustration with the Orioles’ season, describing it as a “flaming disaster” and criticizing the team’s management.
- Mark shares his personal connection to the Orioles, mentioning his son’s fandom and a memorable game they attended.
- Nestor and Mark discuss the challenges faced by the Orioles, including the lack of a high payroll and the impact of injuries on the team’s performance.
Adley Rutschman and the Future of the Orioles
- Nestor and Mark discuss Adley Rutschman’s impact on the team, noting his energy and potential as a catcher.
- Mark highlights the importance of drafting and developing talent, comparing the Orioles’ situation to other teams with higher payrolls.
- Nestor reminisces about the excitement around Rutschman and the potential for his long-term success.
Historical Context and Ownership Issues
- Nestor and Mark reflect on the history of the Orioles, including the impact of ownership changes and the challenges faced by the team.
- Mark shares insights into the pressures of ownership and the importance of having astute businessmen at the helm.
- Nestor discusses the legacy of Peter Angelos and the ongoing challenges faced by the current ownership.
Lamar Jackson and NFL Football
- Nestor and Mark shift the conversation to Lamar Jackson, discussing his unique style of play and the criticism he faces.
- Mark defends Lamar’s productivity and productivity, comparing him to other great quarterbacks and highlighting his ability to move the ball effectively.
- Nestor and Mark discuss the upcoming matchup between Lamar and Josh Allen, considering the factors that could influence the outcome.
The Importance of Coaching and Development
- Nestor and Mark delve into the importance of coaching and development in baseball, noting the impact of good coaching on player performance.
- Mark shares his observations on the differences in coaching approaches between baseball and other sports, emphasizing the need for effective instruction.
- Nestor and Mark discuss the challenges of developing young talent and the role of coaching in shaping players’ careers.
The Impact of Early Specialization and Travel Ball
- Mark discusses the impact of early specialization and travel ball on the development of young pitchers, noting the increased risk of arm injuries.
- Nestor and Mark reflect on their own experiences with youth baseball and the changes in the game over the years.
- Mark highlights the importance of building up pitchers’ workloads gradually to avoid overuse injuries.
The Future of the Orioles and Baseball
- Nestor and Mark discuss the future of the Orioles, considering the team’s current challenges and the potential for improvement.
- Mark expresses confidence in the team’s young talent and the importance of continued development and coaching.
- Nestor reflects on the broader challenges facing baseball, including the need for better coaching and development at all levels of the game.
Personal Reflections and Final Thoughts
- Nestor and Mark share personal reflections on their experiences with baseball and football, including their favorite moments and memories.
- Mark expresses his admiration for Lamar Jackson and the unique challenges he faces as a quarterback.
- Nestor and Mark conclude the conversation with a discussion of their favorite music and upcoming events, including a potential concert by Tom Keifer.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles collapse, Cal Ripken, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Adley Rutschman, Mike Elias, pitching injuries, baseball development, ownership issues, Camden Yards, Baltimore sports, football season, coaching impact, player development, sports management.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Mark Mussina
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 tassel, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive, happy kickoff to everyone out there celebrating Labor Day leftovers and and goodies, getting ready for the first Sunday night or go easy, not just on the gambling with our friends at the Maryland lottery. One 800 gambler, I will be telling everybody go a little slow, but I’ll be giving out free lottery tickets on the 16th at the Beaumont for the Maryland crab cake tour. Tastiness is underway because people like my next guest are tourists here in a town that their brother made famous. Mark Messina is my friend. I call him the county commissioner like me County. He is up in Pennsylvania. His brother is coming in to feet the great Cal Ripken on 2131 um, I might be seen Saturday at the ballpark. I don’t know. I love Cal. I love his kid too. But moose, welcome back. Welcome home for you know, a couple of minutes here. And I always love having you on. I bothered you. I said all this up. I’m like, you do know Lamar is playing Josh Allen on Sunday night football? You do know like the 2131 thing has been 30 years 30. No wonder you’re as gray as you are.
Mark Mussina 01:12
Man, tell me about it. Tell me about it. Yeah, you’re putting something in your hair. Man, it ain’t that dark,
Nestor Aparicio 01:16
dude. Dude, don’t start that. No. Marvin Lewis starts at every time he comes on. I will. I know my barber. I’m honest about everything else. I mean, I have a little, like a little silver here, if it hits the light the right way. But no, no, no, dude, no, no,
Mark Mussina 01:32
no, whatever. That’s because I had three kids and you had one. I guess that’s what that’s what the difference is.
Nestor Aparicio 01:37
I think it might be the chia seeds that I have for breakfast while me, I
Mark Mussina 01:42
clearly don’t have those. Um, what’s
Nestor Aparicio 01:44
on your mind? I mean, did I get a million directions? We’ll get to Lamar and Josh Allen the baseball side, the Cal thing, um, the Oriole employ. I mean, last time I had you on the Orioles, they had a chance, right? And he and like this season has been such a flaming disaster in so many ways, and giving visayo The money and wherever they’re going to be with Russian it’s just from a baseball perspective, aside from what they’ve done to the fans here for Birdland memberships and pissed off people, it has just been a curious mess that this franchise can’t get out of its own way. And I know deep down, you’re really a Yankees fan, and I would give you the middle finger, but you’re an elected official, and I’m not going to do that to you. But like you, love the Orioles, and like you and I, for the last 25 years, since you left town, we get together socially, privately, here, there, jokes, whatever, but you don’t want to see the Orioles being last place and ever, right?
Mark Mussina 02:39
No, I mean, my son’s an Oriole fan. We come to Baltimore. That’s where we go. I’ve been to Yankee Stadium a couple times, but it’s always an event. There was something with Mike and old timers game or something. But, you know, we make the annual pilgrimage down. We were there the day this year that the Orioles won 18 nothing. That’s the day that we
Nestor Aparicio 02:58
come back. We need come get a season ticket if
Mark Mussina 03:05
they played the Rockies every
Nestor Aparicio 03:07
day you were trying to pick a game where they won.
Mark Mussina 03:09
I’m not just worked into the schedule, you know, because here it has this for I saw you’re a big fan of Italy play, that’s all. Here’s my pun of the morning, my youngest kid just went off to college. So so now for the I’m an empty Nestor. I’m not a Nestor. I’ve been an empty Nestor for many years. Yeah. So I was the first nasty Nestor, but not I was the original erg. You’re the original on the empty so, yeah, I mean, I when you look at teams like the Orioles that don’t have that don’t have the payrolls of the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers and all those teams have, you’ve got to draft Well, you’ve got to develop well, and, and the the key people have to stay healthy. And so much of the excitement a couple years ago was focused around Adley. And then, you know, the world has just changed. And Neil gunner’s having a fine year, you know. But he’s not, you know, an MVP race and and, you know, they’re still waiting for Jackson to get it going a little bit, and he’s still so young, but like, Adley was one of these keys. I mean, I remember when he showed up, and they’re like the difference in the Orioles record since he’s arrived as the catcher, and they haven’t been swept in a series since he arrived as a catcher. And now he
Nestor Aparicio 04:20
had all that pony league thing, patent guys on the ass. Ra, that Pete Rose thing, you know what I mean, like, literally, like that AJ presents ski kind of thing, you know, whatever it was. He had energy for a catcher that made you think, like, this is a buster. This is a boss, you know, this is a Thurman Munson. This is, this is a Carlton fist. This is, you know, not Johnny Bench. I did mention a couple Hall of Famers that are, you know, with your brother in Cooperstown immortalized, but just in the Hall of you know, let’s hit the ball the next five years and earn yourself a $200 million contract by the time we move you to first base. Don’t be Butch weininger, no, no offense. We had a nice, nice Pennsylvania King. And I had to get that to you there, dude, I drop old baseball ish on here just to have fun. Like, I found a ticket stub for a game, and I remembered seeing Tom show pay pinch run when I was seven years old, and I was so excited that Tom show pay was pinch running. You know what I mean? Like, I love baseball, and with nerds like you and me, we get together. It’s well, what’s the path out? Go ahead. Go ahead. Say
Mark Mussina 05:25
this. I haven’t heard Butch weininger’s name in a long time. I can tell you I’ve never heard Tom show pays. You could have just made that up, and
Nestor Aparicio 05:33
I know Tom show pay a fringe catch on outfielder Rochester, 70 234, played. Had played, playing playoff games, probably 7374 so nonetheless, I nonetheless, word for Yeah, Tom Cho pay, trust me, by the way, I had compared, we were trying. We were always comparing the weeders, right? Leaders was going to be bench before you were around. There was Earl the big cat, Williams, which was a part of that big deal with the Atlanta Braves. So chasing catchers, Dave Duncan came here and caught kind of middle to late in his day, and Terry Kennedy caught here. I mean, there were a lot of, like, veteran kind of guys that came in and were that, that guy here, but drafting one ones and expecting them to be catchers. And we could talk to BJ surf, who’s still here in the community, doing great things with pathfinders. But like that one, one thing Ben’s on the broadcast every night, moose, and I don’t even know if you ever thought Ben had that in him, or whether Ben thought you’d be County Commissioner one day. But you know, the pressure on a one, one, a catcher, the comparisons, right? The weeders was going to save the franchise. You remember that that I was there the night he came into the line of 2009 there was a rainbow that appeared over the warehouse. He had like, three hits and four. RB, you know, it just feels like these momentum changes that you’re looking for in this franchise, because they can’t get out of their own way since 2131 you know
Mark Mussina 07:01
what I mean, like, literally. And I remember, I remember, we picked up Charles Johnson from the Marlins. There you go. There you go. The same thing. You see it in every sport, with teams that are struggling to get over, like a team like the New York Knicks do it like this is going to be our guy. And, you know, I know here at Penn State football, with every new quarterback they get, he’s going to be the one to get him past Ohio State. And when you get the teams that win all the time, and they just bring in pieces, and there, there’s never that savior, or the teams that are always but when you’re looking to get there and you’re trying to build hope that, you know, oh, it’s all going to be because of Adley rushman, and then, and I, you know, they talked that he’s been hurt. He probably was, but it’s hard. It’s hard to be good. I remember once a long time ago, my brother said it’s, there’s lots of guys that have one good year, but then as the league adjust and as people figure you out, and, you know, the great players go on and and it’s harder, and there’s been other guys that have burst onto the scene and why they couldn’t stay healthy, or whether it just didn’t last, or whatever the case may be. But you know, the other thing too is yours had a lot of pitching injuries, and it’s not when, when you don’t spend in the off season, like they didn’t give themselves any margin for error on the mound, and then early in the season when they had, you know, the the injuries, and they just got behind the eight ball. But when you’re when you’re like that, when you’re an organization that that spends like they do, or doesn’t spend like they do, you need to have a lot of things go right and you can’t have very many things go wrong, and it’s just there were just too many things. Orio wise, three years ago, you’d have said a badly rushman’s a below average catcher, the auras aren’t going to win, and they knew it, and let alone everything else. So it’s just been a rough go. No one saw it this bad. But, you know, I don’t know. I don’t think the future. I’m glad that they that they’re now. They seem like they’re trying to lock people up. They got a lot gunner up there. There are guys that they just can’t let escape. And they have, you do have to spend money? You’re going to have to spend money on the on the free agent market, and get some pictures.
Nestor Aparicio 09:16
Yeah, any confidence in it at all?
Mark Mussina 09:19
Um, you know, no, because I don’t know the new the new owner, and we’ll have to see what his I think I remember back with Angelo, so it was just, you get the new owner coming in, following the previous owner, and there’s this, like, you’re you, you’re, like, riding on a white horse, and you’re this,
Nestor Aparicio 09:41
Oh, You were here for all of it, right? Your brother was a big, big part of how effed up it was in spring training, before, during, and then after, and then all the people coming, and where’s the money? And your brother gives them a deal, and your brother and dude, there’s so much hatred and love for your brother here over the course of time. Time, and I obviously I was intimately involved you and your brother, and knowing stuff that I couldn’t even report, that I knew about at that time, and maybe not even now, 25 years later, but I would say this like your brother never wanted to leave, and he only left because the ownership was shit, and that’s that, and that’s the story, and that’s the true story. And anybody would have left, and nobody would have stayed, and nobody did stay. And Cal barely made it to the end, and and then all these years later, we talk about it, but ownership is everything, the only thing, especially if it’s going to be overbearing and poor,
Mark Mussina 10:36
yeah, you need the owners that are so. I mean, obviously these owners got to be rich by being incredibly good at something aggressive, astute businessmen, somehow they were really good at making money. And now that you get to a hobby where, in a lot of ways, you’re going to lose money until you sell it. You know, when you sell it, you’re going to make your money back. Because, you know, who just sold for $3 billion or whatever, you know, when the Lakers are up and all these like, it’s ridiculous, but, you know, I can imagine when you’re sitting there saying, you know, do we want to do I want to give this guy a, you know, $50 million $150 million to it and it, I might not. I might be a 500 team anyway, and it’s, it’s essentially coming out of my pocket. It’s my business, but it’s my and, and you get those guys that, you know, once it wears off, and once the reality sets in, and you’re signing checks, and you’re like, Wow, do I do I want an extra 100 million dollars on my payroll to do what? And I might, you know, if I knew I was going to win, maybe if I don’t know, I’m still going to be behind the Yankees. I’m still going to be, you know, look at what Toronto has now with with Vladimir, and with young, young Bichette. And so it’s, I get it that they, you’ve seen these people come in, and then once they get in the seat, and once the checkbook gets put in front of them, you know, they, they just don’t spend like they, I even think like they thought they were going to and I think, Well,
Nestor Aparicio 12:07
Peter did, and then found himself in debt, like badly when your brother left dude, he was bleeding money for real. I Everybody I know on the inside, Mike Flanagan, Joe fall, everybody’s confirmed that he was literally putting 20, 25 million a year of his own money in Sydney. Ponson, Jeff ko nine, David Segui during that era. I’ve written a book about it. I mean, I’ll stand behind it. And then that freaked him out. And the strike thing, both sides of the first strike, and then the second one that almost happened, that he got involved. They got a lot of credit with Bud Selig for staving it all off. And we’re about to get that going again. We’re reading Lords of the Realm all over again for the end of next summer. But you know, I the Angelo’s money thing is a curious thing, because I do want to bring this up, and I think I brought this up the last time, because it’s over with now, right? Like Peter’s dead, the kids have the money. They’re out. Some of their people are still here, screwing the Orioles up. Quite frankly, on the inside they they did not clean house in any way, which is one of the reasons it’s been kind of poor the last 18 months, including why I don’t have a press pass, why they hold the old grudges? Why Mike Ford it’s not there? Why Rick Dempsey’s not there? Like, why BJ sur offs not there’s, there’s a lot of people that have been that still have been cut out, like Adam Jones once said, even though he’s been cut in in Barcelona or whatever, but the Angelos money thing and how much money he really made, and what David Rubenstein’s goals are here as a 74 year old man, I can go back and I wrote a book on this. Peter’s goal was to be a hero. He ran for mayor a couple times. Was never going to be hero like that. Made a boatload of money, didn’t know what to do with it. His statue was going to be the or he didn’t even like baseball. The Orioles was the biggest deal in town, and that was the thing that could make him Mr. Big. It’s not really unlike, you know, dictator down in DC, you know, Arne schittler, that there was a power thing and a What can I buy, and what can I put my name on, and what can I make mine, and what can I own and what can I control? And as Peter schmuck once said to me, you know, he, he, he hated everything he didn’t control, and he abused everything he did. And, and I’m talking to Mike Messina, his brother, about why Mike Messina was a Yankee, right? Oh, 25 years ago, and seeing this guy come in, and being an older guy myself, and having tried to shame Peter Angelo’s like Charles Dickens style, into Ebenezer Scrooge, into being a better man at the end of his life, the way maybe George Steinbrenner was reputed to be at the end of his life, that Rubenstein buys his team for $1.8 billion Peter Angelos bought the Orioles with about 29 million. Dollars in cash. It was called 173 million. There were banks. There was a no Peter sat on the air and talked to me about, well, we have a mortgage. It’s kind of like your house. And I had an apartment at the time, but, um, all these years later, I look at the Orioles, and I look at the legacy, the Angelos family, and I look at the boys who cashed out at a billion. The mom’s still here, right? But they’re they’re each at about a billion dollars, on top of the years where they got right on their taxes, got a $75 million payout in cash just to have the Nationals exist, the entire network that they built, and they milked and they wrote down and wrote off and just took money from the Nationals. Fought with the net like over 3040, $50 million a year, every year, compounded for 15 years and it would and sued the partners, broke every codicil in their partnership. Just everything they did, they legally entangle major league baseball for a decade and a half all of this awfulness that came out of it. He didn’t die hero. He didn’t die a winner. He didn’t die well. He didn’t die happy or healthy. The kids. He died with the kids at each other’s throats. There’s 200 pages of documents about all sorts of garbage that he never would have wanted to be made public. And in the end, all the money they ever made, which was hundreds of millions of dollars that they made as a family, hundreds of millions, if not, like on the billion range. After he lost that money, he got it all right, and then all he did was make money. You know, then after once Andy came in, all he did was make money. I think to myself, was it really worth it? You know, when the book was written,
Mark Mussina 16:51
it’s, it’s the good question, like,
Nestor Aparicio 16:53
made a million dollars a day every day. They own the team. For 30 years, they made a million dollars a day, every day, every day, as a family, for owning that team. And all they were, were chased out of town, and they have all this money. And I just, I just smacking my head, shaking my you know, whatever the internet would say, moose, I that’s really the story, man.
Mark Mussina 17:19
Well, when you get like the, I don’t know if say the psychology of greatness, but when you when you see about Olympic athletes, when you see about, you know, the pressures of Olympic athletes and the the pressures of ivy league students and all, you know, all these, greatness is hard, and it comes at a price. And because, you know, that’s what I’ve I’ve heard, you know, normal schmucks like us who don’t have that kind of money, who can’t relate to it, and they’re like, because people used to argue with me is like, Well, why? Why would they? Why are they supposed to lose money on the team? I was like, because that’s how you win, and that’s how like, if you have all this money, how? What else you can do with it? You know, you’re going to buy 17 boats you’re going to go have, it’s 14, you know, you’re going to have a house in every state. Like, like these people with these owners with billions, and I just saw a list the other day of how, like, the the richest sports owners in in America and all the billions. Like, what are they going to do with it? And the ones that succeed are obviously the ones who are really smart and surround themselves with smart people. The smart people, but they’re also obsessed with winning. Like Steinbrenner was obsessed with winning. And one of the things they said, one of the things we noticed when Mike went to New York, like when something happened in Baltimore, there was always litigation, and because there was Stadium, the baseball stadium deal, in the football stadium deal, even if it’s something is, you know, like a whirlpool broke, and while the stadium authority and ours and the Ravens and this and that and everything was like, just drug out. And he’s like, in in New York with Steinbrenner, if something broke is fixed the next day. And he’s like, that’s just how he operated, like we are here to win, and those are the the owners, the owners that are I don’t even want
Nestor Aparicio 19:07
to say I’m laughing, because I’m about to bring it back to Jerry Jones, because he just dealt Michael Parsons off. And you’re the world’s biggest Dallas Cowboy fan this side of days. So you know, have you ever been down to see that facility in Dallas? Moose, no, I have not please. I here’s what I hate Dallas. I hate everything about Dallas. I will take you down, and I want to tour you and your kids through that. Bring your brother, bring your mom and dad. Whatever you want, dude, it is. It is the most unbelievable facility. And you know what would laugh the most at it, your brother who pitched for the Yankees, who had the best of the best of the best of everything. Would look at this and say, Oh my god. This is like Turkish. This is like, this is a whole different level of over the top opulence for how they operate, a football team in a cage with glass for fans, with a cafeteria that looks like or. She park like it’s insane, but that’s the way Jerry thinks they’re going to win. Because he’s nuts. And I think anybody else that goes there says, How am I going to play football in that? How am I going to play football there? And they don’t win. And to your point, he’s trying to do the best of everything. I mean, he’s got $10 billion thing, arts on the art on the wall. I mean, it’s, it’s not a football facility, it’s an art gallery. It’s just crazy. But that’s his thought about winning, and that’s your team dude. You know
Mark Mussina 20:29
he, he’s a, he’s a very good example, because he is obsessed with winning, and he the the money is no option, as you talked about, although he’s made, who knows what it’s worth when he whenever he tries to sell it, but he just, he shows how hard it is, and that these, these war room guys that are analyzing players and are crunching salaries and and all the the the the math and still the nuance of the ability to judge talent and The art behind it. You know, there’s and it’s just hard, and he’s not good at he’s good at all the other stuff around it, of being, of building, of building revenue, of branding,
Nestor Aparicio 21:13
of all that. But he is a control freak. He can’t let go. And that’s not uncommon to anybody I know that owns a business in Baltimore or anywhere else, right? But when it come and right, and including the guy you’re talking to, but you see the successful guys who are like, Listen, I’ll do all this stuff. I’ll make the money. I’ll do the branding, you draft, you evaluate talent, you hire the coaching staff. You know what I don’t do is operate the radio tower, because I have no idea works, right? Yeah,
Mark Mussina 21:42
I mean, and Jerry’s a good he is a good example of just not, because that’s where people like, well, just spend money. Jerry spends money. And by the way, the Micah Parsons deal, I’m a little bit proud of him for this one, because you can’t, like, we’re worse immediately. And clearly this is not
Nestor Aparicio 22:01
but I love how you say we when you talk about the Cowboys, well, I miss you. You know, down the
Mark Mussina 22:06
road four years from now, five years from now, it depends how, what they do with the first round draft picks. It depends how this defensive tackle, it’s all Pro, works out. But you look at, you know, I go, I always go back to the Tom Brady. Tom Brady was never the highest paid quarterback. Tom Brady used to give money back and restructure it because he’s like, if you give it all to me, who I’m not gonna have enough talent around. Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 22:27
he probably met craft over at the Chinese of massage parl and got paid. I mean, I’m convinced that he was very he was making money off the you know, I’m convinced that there was something going on there to take pay cuts, that there was other money away from the cap, and they broke every other rule. I mean, literally. I mean, they were the, they’re the most cheating thing this side of the Houston Astros. And it is amazing. In modern sports, we talk about these cheaters and stuff. We go back to, like the Indians climbing through, you know, Jason Grimsley climbing through things to steal bats and stuff like that. There is the cheating part of this that, you know, that’s always a factor, like, what’s that? Who do you like?
Mark Mussina 23:09
You’ve gone through all the villains of the sports world. There has to be a hero
Nestor Aparicio 23:12
somewhere. Oh, my God, I think there’s a hero. Boy. I mean, I think, well, I was going to say, Show ace coming, it’s but he’s getting gambling, right? So we got that going on. So I don’t where are my heroes, other than Robert Plant and Jimmy Page, you know, what can I say? Mark Messina is here. Hey, dude, I am not even curmudgeonly about it, but when you got to kick her out, and the Messiah here, and, you know, and then they draft a kid that had problem, you just wonder, like, what’s going on? But the baseball team specifically from getting back to, like serious business and onto the field, of how they fix this and what’s going on with the labor deal and who’s running the team. I mean, I’m convinced Mike Elias can identify talent. I’m also convinced that if you’re my general manager and I own the team, and you fire the manager on Preakness Saturday morning, you don’t show up for the media and the fans on Tuesday night in Milwaukee, three and a half days later. So I mean, they have a real leadership messaging issue here. In addition to Ken Adley rutchman play, can they sign gunner Henderson will beside, oh, really, be worth the money they invested in him? That’s like on the field stuff. I go back to who’s running the place, and by the way, I hear Michael aragetti. The number two is a little more like the number one than the number two, and I’m hearing more whispers, because most are not making money. There’s nobody in the stands, right? They don’t have cable television figured out from a revenue standpoint. They’re rebuilding the stadium. They’re doing like a club thing, and trying to get premium this and that, and there’s not a whole lot of money here for that, and every fan is pissed off by their Birdland thing. So as you fly into this, they’re trying to sign free agents in the off season. I don’t know where they’re going to shop for pitching, but they’re going to have to shop for pitching, man like that. That’s going to be the story the fan. Are on. And what you’re on as a baseball fan is, can you put a better team on the field next April 1? Rogers has been nice piece. Bradish coming back. Nice piece. And they have all of these young bats that we’re just going to have to cross our fingers. And the thing that I’ve said to Luke a lot, and you know this, it’s August, you know, end of August, early September, if Colton cows are can just hit 312 this month. It gives you something you feel good about in the off season. If any of these young players, beavers, certainly radish being so important in regard to make four starts, five starts show me that you’re healthy and you’re sound again, because putting the Humpty Dumpty together in an off season with labor work problems. Lamar might win the Super Bowl here. They’re not going to have a lot of fireworks, but they have to have some pops and bangs that make Luke and I get back together after the Ravens parade about February 11 and say, do they have a chance to win? Can they win 90 games? Can they make that dip that Houston made a decade ago, which was, we’re a playoff team? Oh, what the hell happened? Oh, now we’re banging trash cans for winning World Series.
Mark Mussina 26:08
So you really think the ravens are that good?
Nestor Aparicio 26:13
Going to have that argument now the day after you deal? Michael Parson, do you want
Mark Mussina 26:16
to do that to stay with the auras? One of the things that I’ve noticed through the years is young players in September under the cover of NFL and college football darkness. It’s it’s such a long season, and you get these kids that you know into July and into August, it is a grunt. When they get to September, it gets cooler. It’s the heat, it’s less oppressive, and they can see the finish line. And as you said, you know, we see kids, you’ll see bad teams that have a 500 September, because the kids can see the finish line, and the old guys are like, hey, I can get through this. And I’m worried about my contract next year, and I’ve never talked to anyone, but I think the psychology of playing baseball in September on a bad team is way easier than playing in July and August. So it is and and a lot of the sports world has turned the page to, you know, nobody’s checking Minnesota Twins box scores in September because their season’s over. But you’ll see some of these guys, if you’re a hometown guy like Houser, you know what? What happens in September, Brad Well,
Nestor Aparicio 27:25
they this is different than watching Jay Payton at the end of it, you know, like, this is just different, because all of these guys to me, and I said this to Luke last week, I give him a fresh scorecard about August 20, last six weeks, the day Bradish came up pitched, well, they figured out where Rogers is all these bullpen guys that aren’t, you know, who knows what these guys are. The eyes are on Mayo cows are you already referenced Holly. Let’s get him going. Well, holiday hits 340 in September and hit six bombs and drives in 18 runs, and the team goes, I don’t know, 18 and seven. You know it like helps manzalino keep his job. I mean, there’s just a lot going on here that feels like preseason football to most people, but I think to the people in it, and your brother mostly played on pretty good teams, or teams with that going, not around here toward the end, but, but, but seeing, and that was a bunch of old guys that kind of failed with this and that, and hanging out and whatever. This is a different wave of judgment for these young players that these next couple of weeks are going to be fundamental about how we feel about ruchman cowser Westberg, who can’t get on the field, Mayo, who hasn’t proven anything holiday, who you’re already well, like, he’s young. Like, come on, man, it’s go time, boys.
Mark Mussina 28:41
Well, he is like, what is he 21 Yeah, I don’t, wasn’t I? Mike was 22 when he got to the big leagues. So, like, we gotta, like, how good is holiday going to be when he’s 25 that’s where I’m like, like, let’s give him. He’s improved, but he is still so young. There are so many. You know, Wade Bobs was 26 before he showed up in the big leagues, and this kid’s 21 so like there is a level of patience. But, you know, Rogers changed things. There are, there are the glimmers of hope again and and hopefully that the Orioles learn from the off season. But you’re right. You know when you talk about, and I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. But the way society’s changed, we remember what 90s Camden Yards was like, and how many what the the knock against Camden Yards when it was new was, it was the suit and tie guys eating sushi. They’re not baseball people. Well now the suit and tie guys don’t go into the office. You know as much they work from home, and they’re so much less of that. Oh, I walk across Pratt street to the stadium because I’m working downtown. And how much of that society stuff after covid and the working remotely? How much has that changed the downtown ballparks? Where, you know, 30 years ago, it was a jewel, and everybody need to have a downtown ballpark. And now downtown is different. Let’s go to the battery. Yeah. So it is. And these are things that nobody saw coming. The thing about Elias that I thought is interesting, and you know this because you’re Houston is like the fourth largest city in America, population wise, it’s like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston. Houston is huge. And when you look at what they had, and then you come to Baltimore, and I think what he’s done, I think that things going in the right direction again. We see Adley got hurt, and it it kind of pushed it. But in his what he seems to be good at is pushing it down the road, saying we’re still now we’re three or four years away, we’re three, and as long as you’re three or four years away, how do you get mad at the General Manager, like, this is the plan. We’re three or four, and as long as he can push that off, he’s got job security, because that’s a tough thing in the general manager job when you get to the point of, hey, this is when we’re supposed to win. Now you’ve pushed all your chips in, and now there’s pressure. But as long as you can keep convincing people it’s down the road, you’ve you, Hey, don’t, don’t get mad. We’re still three years off. And that is is different, because in Baltimore, when they brought him in from Houston, and everyone said, Oh, look, you know it’s, it’s it’s like bringing a guy in from Alabama to coach college football at the University of Maryland. Well, he’s got this pedigree, but he, he was brought up in an environment, you know, their their environment, you, you can’t grow the same crops there that you you know, they hear that they grew there. So it’s just the world is different. And you know, you have to find someone who learned to win at, you know, Indiana, to come in to win at Maryland, as opposed to winning at Ohio State and coming in to win in Maryland. So I don’t know if, yeah, he’s done some really good things in the draft. I don’t know why I didn’t draft any pictures, but
Nestor Aparicio 32:00
you know why I figured this out. I talked to someone the last couple of days that had a really interesting insight into that all of the trades they made four weeks ago netted pictures that were second, third, fourth round, kind of pictures that they might have taken in 22 three or four, right? If you go and look, just look through it. It was kind of a replenishment of, hey, I want that kid from the padres, the Boston guy, whatever his name, right? So, like, all of those guys were, like replacements that they used, O’Hearn, you know, all the pieces that. And they also chipped in eight and a half million dollars of money. And that’s a different thing that John Angelos would have ever have done, to your point, like they didn’t make enough money when they walked out with a billion dollars, and there were micro pieces of that. I just want to go back to one thing you said. By the way, Mark Messina is here, and I am going to ask you about arms and pitching before we go. Um, not so much Lamar and Josh, but the um, oh, I lost my train of thought. Damn it, go ahead.
Mark Mussina 33:01
Move on. Get to Lamar. And I wrote a piece on a post on Facebook last year. I have become the biggest, distant Lamar fan who is a cow. I’m a Cowboy fan. By I always have been. But the I the criticism that this kid takes, and I still say kid, well, he’s not 30 yet, 28 okay? I mean, to me, all these, I caught a four. He was
Nestor Aparicio 33:24
super young when he was drafted. Now he was like Junior, you know, he came in at 21
Mark Mussina 33:29
the the, it just goes to show that he’s, he’s just, he plays the position differently. He looks different than, than the quarterback that we grew up with. I remember people saying, like, the quarterback is supposed to be the CEO of the organization, you know, when they were talking about guys like Ryan leaf and guys like that who just didn’t carry themselves, like the Peyton Mannings, like the Roger staubachs, like the, you know, and you he’s, he’s, he’s, plays different. He looks different. He talks different than any other great quarterback we have ever seen, but he is so productive. And the whole knock that he didn’t he doesn’t throw Well, and, yeah, he doesn’t stand in the pocket like Brady did, or like Aaron Rodgers. Doesn’t throw. You know, the majestic but you know, one year he was, he was 36 and six with touchdown interceptions, like, what it what do you want? And the fact that he lost, when you just put the blind statistical comparison between him and Josh, oh, it’s like looking
Nestor Aparicio 34:37
at Babe Ruth against it’s crazy, right? It really is. It’s
Mark Mussina 34:41
like, now we go back and talk, and we’re like, Hey, by the way, you know, Michael Jordan didn’t win the MVP every year. Some years they gave it to other guys like Karl Malone and Charles bar and you’re like, What do you Rexella won one, I think too, yeah. And, and when we look at last year, it’s just it was a universal asset. Respect of we feel bad for Josh Abbey. He keeps losing to the chiefs. He can’t get over the hump.
Nestor Aparicio 35:05
I think that they were Josh Allen, and I talked to Buffalo people this week, and I’m just want to be fair, because they all are, you know, throw Josh right. And neither one of these guys have won the big one, but Josh has beaten my homes couple times, right? And then, excuse me, lost to my homes couple. They’ve all lost the mahomes. But the issue with the buffalo thing on Josh Allen is last year they lost a lot of players and they still won, and Lamar got Derek Henry and didn’t win right, right? And I know they vote on that before or where they were supposed to be, but this time last year, we played buffalo in week three, and the Ravens beat the snot out of them. And part of that was like, Buffalo was considered to be depleted, like when I talked to everybody in Buffalo before that game, a year ago, 49 weeks ago, the idea was, dude, don’t don’t have the highest expectations. They kind of ripped this thing apart. And in the end, he still performed with new parts, whereas Lamar just didn’t get an oil change. Lamar got zay flowers, another tight end, Derek, Hall of Fame, you know, running back. So, like, I think that worked against Lamar. I’d like to think that it wasn’t the color of his skin, or, like any of that, because he’s won, or we need change, or whatever. But that’s, that’s what I hear about it from the people I talk to about it. But I’m not making the case against Lamar, because no one can do what Lamar does. No one
Mark Mussina 36:29
it’s a good justification. And you see it, there’s people they get the writers get bored, and they overthink it. And if you’ve explored, if you have a great first half. And people like, Oh, this guy’s going to be the MVP. And then they kind of get and then they think it, and they think it, and so I don’t know. Here’s the thing about Derek Henry. Derek Henry a great year last August, like, there, there are lots of people that could have had Derek Henry. He’s older. He was, you know, we know what old running backs do. And I remember, I was at a high school basketball open gym, and the kids there on my team on his phone, and he said, Hey, I’m up on my draft. Who do you I need a running back? And he rattles off three guys. And I said, the Ravens can run the ball. I would take Henry. And he did. And about every week the rest of the season, I reminded him how much, how thankful he should be for me, but it’s I there has to also be an aspect of when people showed up in Baltimore, they don’t game plan. They didn’t game plan against Derek Henry, the game plan against Lamar. And that had to help If Henry would have gone somewhere else. I don’t think he’s having the year that he had. You saw that with the years he’d had before. So it’s just, it’s sad to me that the the anger and I again, you talk about the color of his skin, I don’t know if it’s as much the color of his skin or or that he’s he’s way different than Russell Wilson. He’s way different than Warren Moon, and just the way he the way he looks, the way he talks, but productivity, the ability to move the ball, the the stress that he puts on defenses if he goes I said this in my in my thing, if he wins one Super Bowl, and if he can stay healthy and keep playing this way. And I preface this by saying we’ve seen older running quarterbacks that as the Donovan mcnabb’s, the Michael that, as they get older, they Russell Wilson, they try to run less and throw more.
Nestor Aparicio 38:25
If quarterbacks are more protected these days than they were 25 years ago too, that’s and that’s one of the things when I think about in this matchup with Josh Allen and Lamar, will they both be upright in January? The rules are set up for them to be more upright then when I talked about Lamar in 2018 19 and 20, as he’s going to get his head taken off, and he hasn’t, he has in two seasons, the reason we’ve seen we know Tyler huntley’s name, and we never knew that Matt Schaub was the backup for the Ravens when Joe Flacco was here, because he took every snap. You know, that’s the most important part. But the rules are set up that Josh Allen can act like a linebacker and play skiddly That at the sidelines to try to get a 15 yard late hit by staying in bounds and Deakin and moving and Lamar. Lamar is like a snake. You better bring him down, because, like, if or he gives himself up. But part of all of that is quarterbacks have more latitude to do that. That’s
Mark Mussina 39:19
a very point. And I think if he can stay healthy and play till not even, like 40, like all these crazy guys you’re doing, but to do this for six, seven more years, and get to his mid 30s, then when it’s all, if he wins one Super Bowl, when it’s all said and done, when you’re talking about the Mount rushmores of quarterbacks, he’s in the argument. He’s, you know, you’re mahomes is going to be there, you know, obviously Brady’s there. You’ve got the Montana’s. You go back to yesteryear, you’ve got the United States Lamar is it? Because his numbers are going to be so incredible. He could rush for 10,000 yards as a quarterback, and, oh, by the way, he does put up the. Good pass like his passer rating last year was incredible, and it’s different because of his ability to get out of the pocket that there it’s it makes it different than the guy who stands in the pocket and just throws, but it’s effective, and I don’t think the world really appreciates what he brings because it’s just not what we’re used to looking at.
Nestor Aparicio 40:27
Mark Messina is my guest. He’s been my friend for three and a half decades. His brother will be in this week for Cal Ripken at 2131 you got to think on that before I ask about your brother, because I have one.
Mark Mussina 40:37
What’s funny, someone texted me like, are you coming down? I said, for what? They said they’re doing the cow thing. And I did that. I was like, oh, yeah, no, I don’t, I don’t know what I got going on. If I don’t know, but it’s, it’s, it’s Saturday night. What it’s Saturday night? Yeah, I don’t,
Nestor Aparicio 40:56
I don’t know. It’s September 6. If you don’t remember that,
Mark Mussina 41:00
I remember it well. It’s, I don’t know. It’s such a in Baltimore,
Nestor Aparicio 41:06
it’s like remembering your birthday. Everybody knows, you know what I mean. It’s, yeah,
Mark Mussina 41:09
I say this, and I’ve told people, I’ve been to World Series, I’ve been to Super Bowls. It’s the what you have those events. When people talk about the electricity in the air, you kind of see, it’s kind of a concert thing, especially for maybe a band that has reunited that you never thought would get back together, or oasis. There you go, and it’s and it’s, it’s one time for you, unless you’re going to travel around the country, they come to your town once. So it’s that one event in whether it’s five years or 15 years, or whomever. And that was the one event that the electricity in the air was nothing like I’ve ever been to and it was, you know, they weren’t independent race. It was, it was purely, you know, pageantry and royalty, and it wasn’t about the who won the baseball game, even though they won four, one and Mike was winning pitchers, it was such a unique thing to be a part of that I can I’ll never forget the I’ll never forget the feeling of just what those nights were like, and when they rolled the numbers down The warehouse that it was, it was, it was unbelievable. And for those of us who were there and remember it like, you know what I’m talking about, and for the kids who are like, Yeah, whatever, they just won’t, they’ll never get it,
Nestor Aparicio 42:31
I had tickets. I gave them to my mom. My mom took her sister from Delaware. They went that they you know what I mean. I was there. Obviously we were all there. But 30 years, dude. So your brother’s coming in, I know he will never sit and do the show of me, because he’s a ghost to me at this point after 30 years. And if he did, I’d probably ask him about hasselman and the whole role and, like, the streak almost didn’t happen. So you know, we could talk about that amongst a million other things, but if I asked your brother about arms falling off. And I know you have a boy who pitches, and you spoke to that several months ago, in some way, because I think the story of the Orioles, to put this back, a tie a bow on this, to recap what we’ve learned here today, the mike Elias thing in regard to, does he deserve his job? Does he not? Is he the right guy? He’s not Rubenstein’s guys, Angelos guy. He wouldn’t be my guy. You don’t fire your manager on a Saturday morning, and I for three and a half days running my operation. You just don’t do that. You just don’t do that. You just don’t do that. That’s that I mean. So I think less of him as a man, as a leader for that. I’m sure he’s a great baseball guy and a nerd and Yale guy. I’m sure he’s arrogant as hell. I don’t know. I’ve only met him twice. You know what? I mean, he was, he was absolutely fine with me, but I didn’t want or need anything, and he’s one of the people hiding my press pass for me and acting like, you know, Schultz or whatever from Hogan
Mark Mussina 43:55
series, I do. I love how you did that. I’m sure he’s arrogant as hell. I don’t know. Yeah, I
Nestor Aparicio 44:00
mean, I mean everybody, well, I’ve watched the press conferences. I don’t, you know, I have a lot of questions. You know, I’d have a lot of questions the day he fires his manager, and then the next day, and then why I’d have to get on a plane to go to Milwaukee to ask him about firing his it was just two weeks after they gave a bobblehead away of the new owner the and they’re gonna finish the year in last place, and we’re sitting here on Labor Day talking about whether he deserves to keep his job or not, whether he’s the right guy. And you just said this is different than Houston is the you’re bringing a water gun to up to a, you know, to a machine gun fight. So arms, if there’s anything to save the job of Mike Elias. That makes it palatable that you’re on his side. It’s not his fault. Adley rush, McCann hit, it’s not his fault that Eston Curt, like, you can go through the failings, but you can also say, Hey, duffer, the Rogers guy didn’t smell so good in the beginning. Pretty good now, he did bring Corbin burns in here. Like, I mean, he knows. What he’s doing. David, Michael, leave him alone. Let him be the general manager. I’ll hear that. But his biggest argument in fighting for his job is all my arms fell off. Well, is that your fault? Is that a training fault? Is that in inter No, the whole industry, arms are falling apart. I would ask you about your what your brother thinks when you guys get together, and what you think and if you differ, and where the solution for arms falling off, because the one thing your brother did, same thing Palmer did, which is why they’re both in Cooperstown, took the ball every fifth day for forever and did it. And whether forever is this year, next year, the year after. But at some point, everybody’s having Tommy John search. Well,
Mark Mussina 45:38
this is an interesting point. And I had another one and I lost it. Maybe I’ll come back to it, but, oh no, I’ll come to this first, and we’ll get back to the arms. Why don’t forget this? There is a level, and it’s not an exciting topic to for us to talk about, because none of us know about coaching, who’s a good hitting coach, who’s a good pitching coach, and why? But somewhere in it, when you follow like golfers, and they, they go up and down, and they talk about, you know, the Swing Coach, and they got a new Swing Coach, and what they’re working on, and how there has to be a lot. It’s not just like we draft a good college guy and we bring him here, and we figured out. And I know one of the things that Mike talked about when he was a triple A, his triple A manager was Johnny Oates, and his triple A pitching coach was Dick Bosman, and then Dick Bosman ended up being a big league pitching coach for 20 years. And there, there has to be, like, these tweaky levels of discussion. When Mike got to the big leagues, Mike Flanagan was also on the staff or on the on the roster. So they have these, like, who you can learn from and who you teach. And we just don’t bring you know, holiday here and throw them in as a 20 year old and say, Go hit, and who is in his ear, and what they’re working on, what they’re trying to do, it that’s going
Nestor Aparicio 46:53
to be better than his father. It has to matter. I mean, his father gave him a tweak back in May that changed him. Yeah, literally, and,
Mark Mussina 47:01
and these are the things that we who has good coaching and who doesn’t, I don’t know, I can’t name you, hitting. I can’t but, but there has to be organizational development of somewhere along the lines of, what are we teaching, as opposed to, hey, this guy will take the job. He was a pretty good player. And, and how does that happen? Well, how
Nestor Aparicio 47:22
about at the end of the year when you say, we strike out a lot and we don’t walk enough institutionally, right?
Mark Mussina 47:28
And, and who these guys are, and how you do it, I don’t know. But there are, there are lots of, you know, the the good golf coaches and the bad golf coaches and, and when guys struggle, who do they go to to help? And that’s because it’s we get into this. Football is not like that. Football is an x is an O game. It’s a gladiator game. We throw them out there. We tell them, You block him and you cover him. And it’s not nearly as much about technique, unless you get to like offensive defensive line, but baseball, the delivery. And, you know, I remember once what I saw a thing about Dwight Gooden. And my son and I were just talking about Dwight Gooden because he pulled up his young stats. He there was a thing comparing schemes to Gooden. And I was like, yeah, and Gooden was, like, 19 when he was doing this stuff, I know, but they talk, I saw a thing when they talked about good and when he was with the Yankees at the very end, he threw the no hitter, and they changed like, three things in his delivery, and they’re like, you’ve got to get the ball out of your glove quicker. You’ve got to do this, because it just wasn’t working. And they figured it out enough that he threw another no hitter. So the coaching aspect, I think, is always something that gets lost. But again, I can’t critique it, because I don’t know if they’re good.
Nestor Aparicio 48:40
Now, Mike probably had six pitching coaches, right? And he had Stottlemyre for a while,
Mark Mussina 48:43
right? And fortunately for guys like that, because he had guys like Flanagan, and because he was smart enough, and
Nestor Aparicio 48:51
they had Flanagan, Bosman, Ray Miller, he had a manager in Phil Regan. It was a hell of a pitcher like, sorry, I’m just thinking of the guys I know that were in your brother’s year before he left
Mark Mussina 49:01
here, right? You know, another guy they really liked was Elrod
Nestor Aparicio 49:04
Dobson. Was around for a minute too.
Mark Mussina 49:07
Elrod could help, and that’s one of the things he’s like. You know, Elrod in the bullpen knew enough that, you know he wasn’t trying to overhaul you, but he could help you when there were problems and and so those are the, those are the questions about that. Now, what was the other thing that you got, too that I arms falling off? Oh, arms falling off. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 49:26
I mean, I think that’s the delineator for Elias. His saving grace is, I drafted all these kids. We haven’t developed them well, right? I mean, they’re not hitting the ball coaching, but like, hey, my pitching was all good. Bradish was going to win a Cy Young Wells was in the rotation. Batista was going to become, you know, a Hall of Fame clone, like, it’s all gone, right? I
Mark Mussina 49:46
think, I think this, I just had this revelation this year, as my kid was a senior in high school watching through, do are we just keep going? Yeah, we’re good. Oh, okay, so, so when we. Were kids in in Little League. Little League started later. We didn’t have this. We’re starting, you know, in bad weather, you know, like our little league basically started in Pennsylvania right at the end of April, beginning of May, and we played May, June, end of July. Then all stars came, and it was it. But they’ve, crushed it all up earlier. And here we’re playing baseball in in Pennsylvania, in April and May, The Little League years and June, it kind of feel and then you get into all stars, and you get it. And now, with all the travel ball stuff, the difference is, when I was in Little League, you had two starting pitchers, somebody pitched on, you know, Tuesday, and somebody pitched on Saturday, and you the the innings limit was six. You could pitch six innings a week. There was no pitch count. So on Tuesday, this kid pitched the whole game, and on Saturday, this kid pitched the whole game, and that’s what you did. And now, with all this other stuff, and we’re we’re worried about arms, and I get it, but because we start earlier, and because it’s April and because it’s freezing, kids get used to going 40 pitches an hour, 50 pitches an hour. And then you get on these travel teams where the kids go shorter and out, shorter and out, and they don’t build up to the 100 pitch limit. I remember in a in a little league game, I threw 126 pitches. I only know this because the score keeper told me, and in high school, we didn’t count pitches, the coach asked you how you were doing, and so you, you built this length of you and the mentality of I’m not done yet, and but, but you only did it once a week. Now you go to these high school games, and kids are starting, and we’re looking at pitch count, and we’re like, okay, he’s up to 75 but if we hook him now, he can relieve in three days. And we don’t have that. I’m a starter. I’m a reliever. We have this. What are you available
Nestor Aparicio 51:57
for? Wins a tournament game at 10am and we need to win period. That’s it, right?
Mark Mussina 52:02
Everything is a budget. You can go this many pitches today. Yeah, we want to start you, or do we want to finish you? Because we want to, because again.
Nestor Aparicio 52:10
Well, look, they made movies about Bad News Bears, about the manager wanting to win too much, too you know what I mean, like that. And
Mark Mussina 52:16
there was the bad side of it, don’t get me wrong. But you know, I was just thinking about this because I was doing a thing, and when Mike was 17, he was on the US Junior National Team. And the legend the Stanford coach, when he told us he beat Cuba, won nothing. That was kind of his national coming out party. He beat the Cubans were the defending national champions. He beat him, won nothing. He threw a nine inning shutout, and the guy from Stanford is like he was throwing 93 in the ninth. And this is a 17 year old, because that was the way the world was. And, you know, they talk about, yeah, they had arm problems back then, because they blew a guy, Mark fidridge and all those guys, they blew him out. But they’re having arm problems now too, because it’s different. And we don’t have, you know, a starting pitcher goes five, and we jump up and down, and he goes five, and it takes him 91 pitches to get through five innings, because everything’s max velocity, and they can’t pitch to contact and all that stuff. So it is, we’ve, we’ve tried to make the world safer, but have we made it safer? And is it because this was my revelation. You know, when we were kids, you’re pitching the whole game, and we did, and that’s all. Now we didn’t pitch again for a week, but now it’s you. We’re only pitching you 50 pitches, but two days from now, we might throw you 30 pitches and then three and it’s, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 53:36
only guys like Mark Williamson could actually do that. There weren’t a whole lot of arms that could do that. Mark, I got a role, dude. I love you. Good luck to your cowboys. This year, your diminished team. See, this is where, when somebody wins an MVP, they’ll say, Well, they’re a diminished team. So I’m just making, I’m not making a case for Josh Allen at
Mark Mussina 53:51
all. I got one. I got one really important question, ravens, better win go. Any chance, any chance you’re going to see Tom Keifer in Allen Stroudsburg in October.
Nestor Aparicio 54:02
Um, sure. I’ll go with you. Yeah, I
Mark Mussina 54:05
think, I think there’s a couple of us that are going over. Have you seen Kiefer post Cinderella?
Nestor Aparicio 54:10
I had him on the show. I saw him perform at Sarah Fleischer’s event here. Been a decade, been a minute, but I had him on the show for him. And I, you know, unbelievable. I will shake you all night. And I have a, I have a very special friend that’s very close with the band, my former agent, Chad weaseling for he current agent, former player, Chad weaseling is, was very, very close with the Cinderella boy, so I’ll work that out. Shake me all
Mark Mussina 54:36
night. All right, it’s, it’s, he is that good, alright? Still that good? Well,
Nestor Aparicio 54:41
Lamar and Josh Allen will shake us all night on Sunday, Mark Messina, brother to the stars, my friend, his Hall of Fame. Brother will be in it’s 2131 I’m not really 30 years older. I’m Nestor. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.
