Profits are up, accountability is down and internal report cards are a no-no for guys like Steve

The NFL continues to rule the sports world even in the slowest of times. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the NFLPA report cards on franchises and transparency and accountability amongst billionaires who can’t even get an Epstein List regular who just hired John Harbaugh to come to light and off their ownership ledgers. We’d ask Steve Bisciotti about it, but of course he’s evaporated again for a while…

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the NFL’s unique position as the last major sport with universal interest, emphasizing the scarcity principle with only 17 games per season. They highlighted the NFL’s ability to create tentpole events, such as the schedule release, to maintain fan engagement. The conversation also touched on the NFL’s decision to stop publicly releasing report cards on team facilities and operations, which Nestor criticized for lack of transparency and accountability. Luke noted that while the report cards will still be available privately, independent media will continue to play a crucial role in exposing deficiencies. They also discussed the potential for an 18-game season and the NFL’s increasing international presence, including the impact on fan bases and stadium attendance.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Request a properly fitting show shirt from Zach so Nestor has a shirt that fits for appearances
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Arrange and confirm a live event at Costa’s in Dundalk for early March (set date, logistics, and promotion)
• [ ] Deliver any breaking sports news first to WNST tech service and ensure the station receives timely updates

NFL Owners and Accountability

• Nestor Aparicio discusses the NFL’s unique position as the last major professional sport that everyone is invested in, despite other sports becoming niche.
• Luke Jones highlights the NFL’s scarcity principle, with only 17 games compared to 162 in baseball and 82 in basketball.
• The conversation touches on the NFL’s ability to create tentpole events, such as the schedule release and draft announcements, to maintain interest.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the NFL’s ability to maintain high ratings and the importance of shared experiences in sports.

NFL Report Cards and Media Independence

• Nestor Aparicio expresses frustration with the NFL’s decision to stop releasing report cards publicly, despite their importance in exposing deficiencies.
• Luke Jones clarifies that the report cards themselves are not going away but will be released privately, emphasizing the importance of independent media in exposing issues.
• The discussion highlights the NFL’s reluctance to be publicly criticized and the need for media to hold them accountable.
• Nestor shares his experiences with the Ravens’ management and the lack of transparency and accountability within the organization.

NFL’s International Games and Public Funding

• Nestor and Luke discuss the NFL’s increasing number of international games and the impact on fan bases and stadium attendance.
• Luke points out the NFL’s desire for public money to build new stadiums while playing fewer games at home.
• The conversation touches on the NFL’s strategy of taking games internationally to grow the game and the potential backlash from fans.
• Nestor shares his personal experience of giving up on hockey and the liberation he feels from not following the sport anymore.

NFL’s Future and Player Concerns

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for an 18-game season and the NFLPA’s lack of power compared to the MLB and NBA players’ unions.
• Luke suggests that the NFLPA may accept lesser concessions to avoid a fight over the 18-game season.
• The conversation highlights the NFL’s ability to manipulate the offseason format to prepare for an 18-game season.
• Nestor emphasizes the need for better leadership and accountability within the NFLPA to protect players’ interests.

NFL’s Impact on Local Communities

• Nestor criticizes the NFL’s lack of accountability and transparency, using the Ravens as an example of a well-run organization compared to others.
• Luke acknowledges that the Ravens have made improvements based on feedback from their players, but the broader issue remains with the NFL’s 32 owners.
• The discussion touches on the NFL’s impact on local communities, including the use of public funds for stadiums and the league’s overall influence.
• Nestor shares his frustration with the NFL’s lack of engagement with the media and the public, emphasizing the need for transparency and accountability.

NFL’s Relationship with Media and Fans

• Nestor and Luke discuss the NFL’s relationship with the media and the impact of limiting access to locker rooms and players.
• Luke highlights the importance of independent media in providing a platform for lesser-known players to share their stories.
• The conversation touches on the NFL’s strategy of controlling the narrative and the potential loss of human interest stories from the media.
• Nestor shares a personal anecdote about meeting Anthony Levine and the importance of human connection in sports.

NFL’s Broader Impact on Sports Media

• Nestor and Luke discuss the broader impact of the NFL’s relationship with the media on sports journalism and the public’s access to information.
• Luke emphasizes the importance of independent media in holding the NFL accountable and providing a balanced perspective.
• The conversation highlights the NFL’s efforts to control the narrative and the potential consequences for sports journalism.
• Nestor shares his experiences with other sports organizations and the differences in transparency and accountability.

NFL’s Future and Player Welfare

• Nestor and Luke discuss the NFL’s future plans, including the potential for an 18-game season and the impact on player welfare.
• Luke suggests that the NFL’s strategy may involve making concessions to players to secure their agreement to an 18-game season.
• The conversation touches on the NFLPA’s lack of power compared to other sports unions and the potential for future labor disputes.
• Nestor emphasizes the need for better leadership and accountability within the NFLPA to protect players’ interests.

NFL’s Relationship with Fans and Public Perception

• Nestor and Luke discuss the NFL’s relationship with fans and the impact of the league’s decisions on public perception.
• Luke highlights the NFL’s ability to maintain high ratings and the importance of shared experiences in sports.
• The conversation touches on the NFL’s efforts to grow the game internationally and the potential backlash from fans.
• Nestor shares his personal experiences with the NFL and the league’s overall impact on sports media and public perception.

NFL’s Broader Impact on Sports Industry

• Nestor and Luke discuss the broader impact of the NFL’s decisions on the sports industry and the potential consequences for other sports organizations.
• Luke emphasizes the importance of independent media in holding the NFL accountable and providing a balanced perspective.
• The conversation touches on the NFL’s strategy of controlling the narrative and the potential consequences for sports journalism.
• Nestor shares his experiences with other sports organizations and the differences in transparency and accountability.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

NFL owners, accountability, profitability, media access, player facilities, report cards, 18-game season, international games, fan engagement, league transparency, player welfare, stadium funding, independent media, team performance, league strategy.

8

SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive, positively celebrating new sponsors around here, foreign and Dermer. I got to get Zach to get me a shirt that fits, but Luke looks real nice in his fitted gear as well. There the comfort guys. We appreciate them coming aboard. If you want to sponsor us, throw me an email and Nestor ball, Nestor Baltimore positive.com you can even sponsor Luke if you want in sports reports, because that’s what Farnham and Dermer are sponsoring. Locker room sound, all the stuff that we’re going to be getting to when we get to it. And Luke, you know what happens soon enough so that you don’t want it or wish it that on 38 degree days. We’re playing baseball. We’ll be doing that soon enough. There really is a, I think, a point where there’s an exhale a little bit. Now, I had Leonard Raskin on. He’s watching the caps. My wife’s in with the Olympics. People were on the Daytona 500 over the weekend, or whatever. But you and I, it’s sort of devolved into football and baseball guys, because that’s what we do here. I know you like the NBA and your spare time, but you don’t love it. You always thought of me as being a p1 hockey guy, and I was until I just got fed up. I mean, you know, I’m this close to fed up with the Orioles and the Ravens, but it’s what I do, and I’m better at it than anybody, so I do it, but, like, it’s real easy to walk away from the Terps right now when they’re no good, you don’t have to watch anymore, if you feel so compelled that you never watch the caps like you, or never liked hockey, or never liked lacrosse like me, that 57 or in Your case, 4030 catching on to new things like curling or ski jumping or X Games, or every four years, or my wife gets the itch for the skaters, and we’ll watch the USA play Canada in women’s hockey for five minutes. But let it go away for four years again, it is amazing football and baseball for guys like you and me, and for our audience, for our audience, because I’ve been doing this 35 years. I think professional wrestling would be the third rail for you and Kevin Eck and a whole bunch of other people. And the MMA thing that has its niche, that started from nowhere and now is everywhere. It is amazing that, like, the minute the NFL goes away, we get sort of the DTS a little bit, but it really doesn’t go away for guys like you and I, because, like, if I had a press credential and I was still a media guy, we’d be going to Indianapolis in five days talking about who the ravens are going to draft, and we would have sat with Jesse Minter, and we would, like, I would I know it Levine and Weaver are in my phone, and I can’t invite them on the show. So we would have been talking ravens, and there we wouldn’t have taken the foot off the gas for a minute. The league doesn’t want you to take the foot off the gas. I already saw their their pimp in Australia. Games this week. Next week, it’ll be all Indianapolis, all the time, the drafts in Pittsburgh in Oh, man, eight weeks. So they’re going to paint the city up. So, um, this week feels like a time to like, what’s on your mind?

Luke Jones  03:10

Yeah, well, I’m it’s funny because you’d mentioned all the other alternatives that you have right now. It really does speak to the NFL being the last major professional sport that not everybody, but in terms of everyone is invested to some degree, right? And, and, look, I mean, your last point you just made, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing if you do take your foot off the gas a little bit from time to time. You know, I think one of the reasons why the NFL is as successful as it is, is the scarcity principle. There isn’t 162 games. There isn’t 82 games like there is in the other major professional sports. You you get 17. Will be 18 here at some point the not too distant future. But it’s not a long season relative to the other major professional sports. Now, that said, they’ve managed to create these other tent pole events throughout the offseason, including the schedule release, right? I mean, we have announcements. We now have multiple announcements about games coming out, the schedule itself coming out, and that’s an event, even though, right now, as you and I talk in mid February, we know what 17 games the ravens are going to play. The only question is, when, right, what day of the week, which games are in prime times, yada yada yada, so, but there’s such a great interest in that. But everything else, and I say this even about baseball, which, as I’ve said many times, baseball is my first love. You mentioned, my love of professional wrestling. Everything else in sports has become, you know, it’s splintered, right? It’s, it’s it’s niche. It’s a lot of that has to do with the TV at this point in time, like, for example, I mean, WWE again, it’s sports entertainment. I know it’s not a real sport, but you to fully consume WWE in the. United States, you need to have Netflix. You need to have the CW, which is on over the air broadcast TV. Mind you, you need to have USA Network, which is still most easily accessible on cable or satellite. And you need to have now ESPN Unlimited, which is not just turn on ESPN, but it’s a streaming package that’s additional to

Nestor Aparicio  05:25

8

what you get with unlimited. I mean, what that like? How deep do you need to go so,

Luke Jones  05:30

so Unlimited is basically, you know, and I don’t want to get too deep into the weeds here with this, but Unlimited is basically, if you do not have cable, or you don’t even have, like, a live streaming, live TV streaming package, like like I have, which still replicates cable or satellite. If you don’t have that at all yet, you want ESPN and all of its sister networks. So we’re talking not just ESPN, ESPN two you news, but SEC Network, ACC network, any games that are on ABC, which we know ABC games are brought are produced by ESPN. You get all of that with ESPN limited, which is a la carte, and they also have some additional coverage, which includes WWE pay per views. You know, they’re not called pay per views anymore, but think of that Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, like all the big events. So the point is, with all that, just to be a WWE fan, you need to be subscribed to at least Netflix and ESPN Unlimited, which there’s been a big bugaboo about ESPN unlimited because they with certain cable providers. They’ve rolled that out that that’s part of your subscription. Yet other ones who subscribe to something that carries ESPN doesn’t have ESPN unlimited. So basically, ESPN is telling you you need to double dip if you want to be able to watch WWE. So point is with that, and that applies for other sports as well. If you, to your point, are a p1 fan and want to be able to watch every single game, or at least have every single game available, it’s expensive and it’s more than one thing that you need to be subscribing to, so it’s a lot. Whereas the NFL, yes, I get it, there’s a stray game that’s on peacock or, you know, the Thursday night package has been on Amazon for a few years now, but the bulk of games that are available with the National Football League are still on over the air networks, which you can still get even if you just have an antenna. So so i But to go back to the greater point. I mean, the NFL is still one of those few television products that we have that is a shared experience, whereas, I mean, even you know the Olympics to a lesser extent. But even the Olympics, look how many different other channels are carrying it, you know, whether it’s peacock on the streaming side, or USA or, you know, some of the other NBC networks. So, but there’s so few things that we have now that everyone watches, I mean, television, you know, you think back to the rating that the mash finale Drew, or you think of Dallas who shot Jr Right. Like these television events, really the only thing that’s left that’s guaranteed to pop a huge, a massive rating in that way, are NFL games. I mean, that’s really all it is. So when it does go away, it does. There is a little bit of a sense of everyone going their separate ways for at least, you know, at least the next couple, you know, at least the next two months. I mean, hardcore NFL fans watch the Combine on NFL Network and everything, but that’s not, you know, that doesn’t get massive ratings or anything like that, but the draft will, and obviously, once we all reconvene come August, even for big football games, those will draw pretty good ratings relative to other sports. So it’s, you know, it it’s a phenomenon, no question about that. And even though we’ve hit one of those periods of time where it is kind of sort of going away, not really to your point. I mean, I saw waking up on Tuesday. I mean, people were tweeting and talking about the fact that the franchise tag window had opened, right? I mean, there’s always something going on, even if it’s not.

Nestor Aparicio  09:11

You know what I found to be interesting. I found to be interesting that they wanted to do away with the report cards for the teams that that’s where the owners minds are three days after the Super Bowl, like I thought to myself, that’s going to get leaked anyway. Accountability and these billionaires going to Tish hanging out with Epstein and Harbaugh can go work for him, or bishati showing up every eight years for the fans, like the accountability part of who’s doing what and who’s responsible for what and what’s an organizational decision, I their fears and their paranoia. Yeah, and their ego about being judged in some way or even criticized, I find it amazing that in a billionaire big boys game, nobody has big boy pants about reality or honesty or transparency. I mean, those things are so far gone from any of this that they can’t even get that right with their employees. Yeah.

Luke Jones  10:26

I mean, it’s first of all, just some clarification here. The report cards themselves are not going away. It’s the NFL pas ability to put it out publicly, right to to just release it themselves. Which one of the first things I said to you about it was, it’s a reminder that one of those reasons, many reasons why independent media covering the NFL is still important. Because guess what, the players and what the NFL pa can do, they can leak that to the media now, rather than just putting it out there themselves, which still isn’t ideal. I mean, I think they should be able to release it. As we said, the last few years, there were, there were certain things about the report cards that I think, you know, shouldn’t have been taken as gospel, for example, like the letter grades themselves, other than the ones that are being praised at the very top, which, there you go. There were certain instances where egos were being stroked, you know, like things that teams did that were really well done, right? I mean, and there are owners that do things at a very high level when it comes to treatment, but at the same time, it was also exposing deficiencies. I mean, we talked about this. What was it three years ago now, when the Ravens that the report card came out about their strength and conditioning, right? And all that was Steve Saunders and that whole thing, and the Ravens made changes. And guess what? They made changes for the better. In that regard, they haven’t had as many injuries the last couple years compared to where they were a few years ago. Their grades improved there. For me, the thing was, with the grades themselves, like people were taking it to, you know, such analysis of, okay, well, this team got a B minus, and this team got a C, and my question was, well, where’s the how are we standardizing that? What? What constitutes a b minus for one player in one organization compared to a C? And so for me, everything that was in the middle, that was a lot of noise, but I think this exposed the really good and the really bad. And to me, what really needed to be exposed on that front was the really bad, right, facilities that were extremely substandard, or weight rooms that were substandard. I mean, think about it. You’re paying these athletes, these lucrative contracts, and yet your weight rooms subpar. Right? Your weight room

8

Nestor Aparicio  12:36

many, many people have said to me that when you leave Nebraska or Texas or Alabama or Florida, these places that have been institutionally college football, Auburn, any of those places, if you show up at the Arizona Cardinals or the Minnesota Vikings,

Luke Jones  12:56

it’s, it’s less downgrade,

Nestor Aparicio  12:59

yeah, yeah, sure. I mean Penn State and from Ohio State and Michigan, right? I mean, it

Luke Jones  13:03

8

wasn’t the case in all 32 but certain ones, you know, to your point, the Cardinals, who have been, I mean, it’s not even a secret. You don’t have to be a Cardinals fan or anyone who follows it. They notoriously cheap at this point in time, I mean, and some of that was out even before the NFL pa report cards. So point with that. And you just said it. I mean, it comes down to accountability, and it comes down to, you know, from the owner standpoint, I mean the egos. I mean, if something about your program substandard, then fix it. You’re billionaires, fix it. And the crazy thing is, with a lot of this stuff that you would see in these report cards. These were easy fixes, like these weren’t things that were going to going to force them to invest millions or millions and millions of dollars. Some of these things were just, hey, communicate with whoever’s handling the family treatment of families of players on game day, you know, just have a better setup for that. You know, like that. That’s something that can be done, probably without a whole lot of money even being spent, just like have a better system in place. So the idea that they were so their egos were so bruised about this, or they were so paranoid about this, that they fought this, that it’s not going to be released publicly by the NFL, PA, they can’t release it. It’s just ridiculous, I mean. And that’s why I said, Okay, so maybe the stuff in the middle, the less important stuff, probably won’t get leaked, you know, as as often, but the more extreme examples will still get leaked. And that’s why I said it’s important to still have media out there. And that’s why I thought back to two falls, you know, two seasons ago now, where the NFL pa came out with this very clearly, a calculated effort, a concerted effort, to eliminate media from the locker room. And I felt like saying, that’s the battle you’re picking, that that’s, that’s what you want to go after, compared to the. All the things that owners could be doing better that would improve your livelihood and and this is just an example of that where I say, you know, these are the kind of things you need to be more concerned about. Like your boss is doing everything they can do to pay you more money. Have better facilities in place, better nutrition, better, weight rooms, better, training staffs, all those different things that are going to help you prolong your career and maximize your career much more than being worried about a dozen reporters being in the locker room a few

Nestor Aparicio  15:32

times, I’m gonna get my dude. Chad weaseling on. You know who represents Josh Hicks. He lives here in Baltimore with former TURP buddy of mine, rock and roll guy, Cinderella, heavy metal hairspray guy, although I have more hair these days, but when Chad comes on and we talk about what’s important to a player and even what’s important to Josh Jacobs, who now has $50 million as opposed to the day we met him six, seven years ago, when he was getting drafted on radio row and trying to figure out what team was going to draft him and what his contract was going to be, and all of that that Lamar Jackson’s needs are different than zay flowers needs then. Then any you know, all the players have their own individual thing, and they all come from to my point and your point. If you’ve been playing at Iowa and you show up here, there might be some things in the weight room that you look at and say, well, that’s so 1928 you know, I don’t know that it’s like that, but I do know that the the NFL part of this and sort of hiding it and throwing people like me out for going and like one of the things that pissed them off more than anything. And I’ve done a lot to piss them off, obviously, but nothing I’ve ever lied about, but I’m not afraid of truth, so that there’s that. But when I told Dick Cass about things that bothered me on behalf of women reporters in the locker room. They they didn’t want that feedback. They didn’t want what I really thought, even though I can really think it out here and say it on the air and write it on the internet, when I went to them and said, Here’s some things that, like, I run a business, I’m a grown man, this shouldn’t be happening in your locker room. There was no one to take that complaint to. There’s no one for you to take that complaint to. You went to Chad steel about anything right now. He wouldn’t help you. He wouldn’t help me. He wouldn’t help anyone. He’s there to work for Steve, not for the fans, not for the media and on the football side. Jesse Minter is there to coach football players. That’s what that’s all he you know. Eric dicost is there to groom and buy football players and align football players and identify talent and all of that like they’re siloed in a way that the only way they can be embarrassed is to embarrass them. Because if you go to them like I’ve gone to the Orioles for five months, behind the scenes, not on the air with like that doesn’t work. Whether you’re a media member or whether you’re the second baseman, or whether you’re the Hall of Fame pitcher who’s the broadcaster for the team, that person can’t go to management and even be heard, let alone be taken seriously about deficiencies. So we are really dealing with Sashi Brown and Katie Griggs are so arrogant they won’t even sit and talk about their business with me, when everybody else in the state, every other business owner will sit and talk to me about their business, about the way things run, about why things are the way they are, about how far in the Dermer does HVAC, about how Bill Cole does roofs and solar, about how Leonard Raskin manages money, about how Wendy Bron fine and her sister got into the cannabis business, like telling stories about your business and sitting and answering questions in a fully transparent way, especially when the government’s involved with the cannabis industry or the roofing industry or the solar industry or the financial industry, the government’s always involved, whether people want to hear that or not, locally, nationally, whatever. With the NFL, there is no government involvement. They’re just bosses and they’re people out there, and when you say the toilets aren’t flushing, they don’t want to hear that. When I went to Dick Cass and said, Do you think your players could drop less N bombs in front of everyone? Do you think guys could not be talking telling Dick stories in front of women in locker rooms. Do you think you could make that go away? They didn’t want to hear it from me privately on a veranda talking to the president of the football team. They didn’t want to hear it from me, so I can’t imagine that they want to hear it from their employees. You. I mean, I’m just being honest with you. So the NFL thing is, how do you ever get it better if nobody can complain, they’re too big to take complaints. I mean, they really are, and that’s the NFL story for me. And then that’s sports in general, and I think that’s feelings and egos and billionaires and rich people and the patriarchy that sort of runs the country and the oligarchy and all of that. But like, what got up, Steve bashati is asked to show up every eight years when he fires a coach. Like, at what point did that become a good idea from a front face for the fans? Well, I guess it becomes a good idea when you’re making $200 million a year in equity, no matter what.

Luke Jones  20:40

I mean, they’re too big to fail. I mean, that’s really what it’s become, and too big to be criticized, sure. I mean, think about, think about the the juxtaposition of more and more games being taken internationally, yet teams want more and more public money to build new stadiums where they’re in the long over the long haul, playing fewer games at their home stadium. Now, you know, and I get growing the game and all that, but think about that. I mean, just think, try to marry those two ideas. You know, they want all this public money, you know, public call. You know, they privatize the profit they get. They get all this government money to build new stadiums. These stadiums now they’re lasting 25 years, 30 years, and they want a new one. I mean, we’re seeing that timeline. I mean, the Titans who we all remember, you know, the Ravens going to Adelphia Coliseum when it was named that, and handing them their first loss there. I mean, that stadium’s going away. I mean, think about like stadiums that were built at the same time as the Ravens current stadium are going away.

Nestor Aparicio  21:48

Now, the Tennessee Stadium was always a mistake because it didn’t have an upper deck in the end zone. And that was very SEC that was very southern football, but they had one over Tennessee old mill, and, you know, with 103,000

8

Luke Jones  22:04

but, but the point is, is it’s there. You know, they want new stadiums. They want state of the art. They want everything that is going to cater to not the average fan, but the top 1% of clientele. And then at the same time,

Nestor Aparicio  22:18

tries to get PSLs out of people up there, like, I like the minute that they go six and 11 again, you know, and their tickets are $400 and your mortgage is $300 you know what? I mean, it’s like, what’s going on?

Luke Jones  22:30

Or not just that, but also when they take a really good rivalry game that you’re set to have that, oh, that’s going to be played in Spain, or that’s going to be played in Mexico. I mean, think about, we’re getting a 40 what a 40 Niners rams game is going to be in Australia? I don’t I think are the Rams the home team, technically the home team for that? I mean, think about how your fan base feels like think about if a raven Steelers game suddenly was not going to be played in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, but whichever city it’s going elsewhere when you just spent all this money to renovate your stadium, right? Or, But,

Nestor Aparicio  23:06

8

dude, this is not only, um, this is okay. No one’s offended by this, I guess. I mean, it started with Jacksonville, right? I mean literally, and they had the Jacksonville media guys on the air with me saying, Well, we’re little old god dying Jacksonville. We, you know, we can’t afford it, so, you know, we gotta play two games over in London, you know. And that started 15 years ago, and that was okay. Then they’re getting a stadium too. Now they’re going to build them all down in Jacksonville too, so they can keep the team five times a year.

Luke Jones  23:35

That’s why I make the point that they’re too big to fail that in some ways. And look, all things being equal, I don’t have a problem with playing some international games and like, like, you know, it’s fun. Like, we went, we went to London eight years ago. I it was a great experience, other until they kicked off, right? Because it was just a horrendous game, but, but the trip was fun. Like, I’m not opposed to that, but I do feel in certain ways, that it almost feels like we’re like, the butt of a joke, and there’s, like, a social experiment going on that something that’s really popular continues to, in a lot of ways, make itself worse, to see, just to see where the shark is, that how much we will actually, like, push back, like, how much will it take for people to actually start pushing back, right? I mean, and, and that’s where I kind of look at it, and I’m just like, it’s kind like, it’s crazy. I mean, I was talking

Nestor Aparicio  24:24

about this walk away from the NHL, and I haven’t missed it at all. It’s been eight years. I mean, even when I go drinking with very trots, I don’t think about like, I wish I were at the rink when it’s on. I have not watched one second of Olympic hockey. I don’t have anything against hockey. I don’t even really have anything against Ted Leones. I just feel liberated from it, and I felt like it was a small subset of my joy and a larger subset of my time. I knew that the capitals didn’t appreciate it. They didn’t care whether I was the only guy in Baltimore that ever gave shit about their product, and my wife and I met at a high. Game. And I, you know, I’m not anti hockey. I’m just, I’m not mad at hockey. I just gave it away, like and I just decided to do other things with my winter. And I don’t catch on to it February 17, and I don’t root for ov who really works for Putin, and they all do. They have to. So ask Navalny. He’ll tell you, I just have moved on to other things. So and you know, what a big part of my life hockey was Ed Frank, if it came on a couple of months ago, and we talked about it a little bit, you know, I don’t have a kid or a grandson that’s on skates that I’m like, doing all of that. Tom cap had a kid my partner, who played hockey and lived in hockey rinks and did all like, it’s just, it’s over, it’s, oh, it’s like, the World Cup’s coming here in six weeks. And I don’t know, dude, I used to fly around the world to see the World Cup. I used to get up at two o’clock in the morning to watch Uganda play. Like, and there is a point where, like as you get older, you’ll find this out, Young man, get off my lawn. I don’t know you value time in a different way. I get you know that if there’s nothing coming back and you’ve squeezed all that you could squeeze out of it, me with my my sports media career, my little sports media career, that hobby I had for the first 40 years. I’m never getting a press credential again in either one of these leagues after spending my life doing it. So like, I think about the integrity and the lack thereof, but also, like, how much time did I have left here? Do I want to give it? How much money do I want to give it in the same way that how much money do I want to give to the Rolling Stones or a concert, or to Ocean City, or to Deep Creek Lake or to Disney World, or I think we all think about that, but I think with sports, the football thing to your point being so overriding that they can do anything they want. And here are the Orioles just trying to sell a couple of tickets and they they have no clue what they’re doing. Katie Griggs, these people have no clue what they’re doing and how to deal with people and emotional intelligence and the damage that’s been done here that they should be thinking about being undone. The NFL operates and glides at a level that this is the only serious conversation we’re going to have all year about it, because next week, we’re going to be talking about football players and poking and prodding, and Lamar is contracting, and there’s going to be drama above and beyond the report cards of the teams to say, stop for one minute. Exhale. How are they doing? How are the Ravens doing? Why do you buy tickets? Why don’t you buy tickets? Sashi Brown says you don’t like the traffic leaving the stadium after the games. I was going to share an old Memorial Stadium picture where the cars are all parked bumper to bumper, but like, I’ve been in a room with Sashi brown now three times in the last three months, I’m so unimpressed, and I’m so and I’m not allowed to ask questions as a media member, as a fan, as a PSL holder, as someone that reaches 10s of 1000s of people every day. I’m not allowed to sit and ask the questions. You’re not allowed to sit and ask the questions there. There’s no Steve’s gone. I see the purple vapor trail of Steve bishati. He is gone. He may never have a press conference again. The next time you see him, he’ll he’ll be blowing kisses next to Lamar holding the trophy. At least he thinks that, because he doesn’t have any intention of ever coming out loud again. All these Epstein file guys that are involved in all of the all these really rich guys, they’re all they don’t want anyone to know anything ever about anything, and they don’t want any questions about anything. Sashi will handle it. Sure. He will ask Chad. Chad will set that up. And it works. And you know where else it works for the agents, for the players who can’t get their way, the only way Lamar can get his way is to yell really loud, like, I don’t know it this is going to be an interesting couple of weeks, because we’re all under the impression that Lamar is Here to Stay happy, going to fix things, going to take money. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if we’re really under that impression or not, but that’s going to be the next story once we get through do the Ravens players like the the weight room? Do they like and the thought that that would be something they would be fighting right now is really just speaks to who they are. It speaks to who Steve Tish is, and who al Spana, Dean Spanos, and who these people are that run these teams.

Luke Jones  29:46

Well, I think it probably more than anything, speaks to having better lawyers than than the union, right? I mean, I mean, this was a legal fight, and we and in fairness, we also know the volatility and what’s the. Felt pas where that’s gone the last year or so, you know, the last year and a half, two years. I mean, with their leadership or lack thereof, you know, whenever I see something

8

Nestor Aparicio  30:08

like leadership, sold them out, right? Let’s be honest that that’s really

Luke Jones  30:11

well, that’s sure, but that’s where I kind of look at this thing, and I see something like this, and it’s almost like, is this something that’s going to end up being some kind of carrot that the that the league throws to the players to get something else, you know, like, remember last, remember last off season. There was a lot put out there about changing the format of the off season, and, you know, not, not eliminating the spring, but kind of pushing that back, starting training camp a little bit earlier, having more of a ramp up, giving guys a longer off season. And all I was thinking at that point, when I heard that, I’m thinking they’re they’re greasing the, you know, they’re greasing the runway for the 18 game season, thinking that the players are going to be, in their mind. They’re thinking the players can be dumb enough to take concessions like that to get an 18 game season, rather than what the union should do on that is dig in and either say no, or if you want an 18 game season, it’s really, really, really going to cost you guys in a way that it didn’t for the 17 game season. But like, there’s always, there’s always that.

Nestor Aparicio  31:16

I mean, they need Marvin Miller back. I mean, no way more than the baseball players, you beat the crap out of the and by the way, we’re going to do our own segment when we get done with the football on the entire landscape of baseball. I don’t talk to anybody about baseball without them saying, sports getting shut down in a year. So at least the NFL doesn’t have that going on. And you and I, me much more so than you, because I got 15 years on you. I mean, the reality is, living through these, these labor wars. It’s been going on since Nestor was a teenager. Yeah.

Luke Jones  31:56

8

The reality is, you mentioned the NFL, the PA needing Marvin Miller.

Nestor Aparicio  31:59

They’ve never had that. Oh, no question. They’ve never had that. They’ve had Gene Upshaw.

Luke Jones  32:03

And, you know, nothing against gene or Upshaw. And I’m not, I don’t want to speak ill of the dead or anything like that, but they’ve the NFL pa their power compared to base, and now the current baseball union doesn’t have near the power that it used to. Well, the NBA players run the league, but, but But you just look at it through that lens, it’s just, I mean, that’s, that’s why it’s, it’s considered a fait accompli that they’re going to move the 18 games. It’s just gonna be a matter of when, right, when and what, what? I don’t want to say silly concession, but what lesser concession is the NFL pa going to accept, to take that because they don’t feel capable. Capable is the wrong word. It doesn’t feel willing. They don’t feel like they are willing and they have the stomach to truly put up that fight. And you know, as much as we all complain about Thursday night football and now a 17 game schedule, and seeing the attrition that you see come late December and early January, and you have teams, you know, without a quarterback, teams without their top two, you know, like that whole thing. And we’re going to add another game to it. We’re going to add to the attrition, you know, they’ll add a bye week in there. They’ll they’ll get their Presidents Day, weekend, Super Bowl?

Nestor Aparicio  33:22

Yeah, the thing they could really do is add four teams in Europe, and add billions and billions,

8

Luke Jones  33:31

think we’re there yet, and go to 3016 not saying that won’t happen, but it’s gonna happen. I don’t think we’re there. I don’t think that’s that close yet. I because I still think the logistics, and I still think getting players to

Nestor Aparicio  33:42

do it, I think it guys like Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft, while they’re alive and they’re on their

Luke Jones  33:47

way out, take their team there. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that’s the thing.

Nestor Aparicio  33:53

8

Long enough to see. I don’t think bashadi cares about any of this. I don’t think he likes any of this. I’ve been told by his friends he doesn’t like any he

Luke Jones  34:00

admitted it during his press conference. He flat out said, like he kind of it was about 10 or 10 to 12 years ago where he kind of realized, if he wanted to be one of those Hall of Fame owners, and I say that using air quotes, that it was going to be way more work than he wanted to do. And and all in all seriousness, that element of it, I respect the fact that he admitted that because of, you know, it’s kind of like you’re a billionaire. Why? You know, other than making sure your team is being run, well, like you don’t have to necessarily be involved in the inner workings of the league and works that hard if you don’t want to, you know, if you, if you don’t care about being a Hall of Fame, you know, yellow, you know, gold jacket owner, but, but, yeah, there’s, you know, I kind of look at all this and it’s, you know, what is next?

Nestor Aparicio  34:48

From his perspective, it’s being well run because they’re making more money, no matter what, no matter what the gambling, no matter what the out, you know, like, no matter what’s on the field, no matter who the quarterback is, no matter what his team’s record is, no matter. How empty the stadium is, no matter how angry they are at the head coach, or how they’re perceived around the community, after Justin Tucker, after Ray Rice, after people who’ve worked in the building have had problems and go back out into civilian life, and people like me every day of my life, every room I walk into, they know the ravens are sleazy. They can ask me, and I’ll tell them, but they they look at me, and they look at you, and you’re in and I’m out, and I own the place, and I created the competitor. And they know that everyone that’s ever met me knows that, and everyone that’s ever met me knows they’re sleazy, and they will do sleazy things. Justin Tucker, I mean, just down the line, all the way through. There’s no expectation that they are supposed to be a good citizen. They’re supposed to put on videos and Michelle and just puts it up on their website, and they’re going to go out and see kids and give things. That’s great. That’s great. They’re making billions of dollars. They should be doing that, the fact that they make a PR thing and they have a camera everywhere they go, fine, fine, but answering real questions and having accountability for the black wing and answering questions about $600 million of money with a chump like Sashi brown to do it, he won’t even do it, and if he did it, he’d sit there and scoff at me and speak down to me. That’s who they are, and that’s times 32 and that’s how none of them, Sashi Brown and Chad steel and Steve Basti don’t care what the backup cornerback thinks about the locker room, dude show up, get your ass in a meeting, be sober when you do it, and line up on Sunday with loose hips, and make sure that you’re covering, right? I mean, that’s, that’s where we’ve moved for this. And do your 10 minutes of media on Wednesday, and clear out of the locker room and Luke and Jameson and Jeff come in there if you don’t have anything to say, and if you drop the game winning pass in the playoff game, we’ll sneak you out the side door. You won’t even have to worry about it. I mean, that’s what I’m seeing over the last 10 years, not over the first 20 years, because I know the way it used to be. It’s not that way anymore, and it’s not and there’s no one that says it needs to be that way, except me, and I’m just an old man yelling, Get off my lawn. So that’s why the report cards to me. I looked at it and said they don’t even want honest feedback. They don’t even want accountability. They don’t want questions. That’s not just Sashi Brown, that’s not just the Ravens. That’s not just Owings Mills, Chad steel, that’s, that’s the industry. That’s the industry.

Luke Jones  37:47

Yeah, and, and I would actually push back a little bit and say, I think the Ravens organization feedback from their players. They’re, they’ve done things to upgrade facilities for the players, and it’s been, I mean, it’s been documented, things that they’ve done within their facility, so, but your greater point is the league as a whole, the 32 owners collectively,

8

Nestor Aparicio  38:08

well, the ravens are doing that because they want to win well and then. But that’s my point. Not everyone wants to win as bad as the Ravens want to win, right?

Luke Jones  38:15

Sure, sure. But, but the greater point is they didn’t want that dirty laundry to be aired, and they won, you know, lawyers again, but that, but that’s why I also said, that’s also why it’s important to have independent media, because if, if there are elements of that report card that warrant being leaked, you know, and I’m not talking about a team gets a B and, you know, their cafeterias, food service, you know, like a C in that. But if a team has an F in certain elements, certain things that are really poor, that’ll get leaked to the media, it will. I mean, there’s no question about that. And as it should, you know, I mean, it should be put out there publicly anyway. But, you know, obviously they fought that, but that’s why it’s so important to have media independent that, and this has been talked about for years. I mean, this goes back to reporters in the locker room to tell the stories of lesser players who might not be pro bowl caliber players who are going to be put on podiums, but guys that still have interesting stories to tell and still have interesting perspectives to share. And you know, how many think about how many players you covered, or I’ve covered that have now gone on to do media, or, you know, some kind of public facing job.

Nestor Aparicio  39:37

Brandon Stokely came out nervous as hell eating oysters with me at the bar. He’s on it every day.

Luke Jones  39:43

8

There was no there was no media ecosystem there. He wasn’t a guy that was going to be put on the podium on Wednesdays. You know what I mean. So like the idea of, if that would go away, and the team just controls everything in that way. Then. You’ve got a lot of players in that locker room who are never going to get much attention that, by the way. I want it, but if they have a

Nestor Aparicio  40:09

I have a funny story for you. I think I’ve told you this once, and I don’t know that I’ve told it on the air in 2000 in 13, I guess it was maybe 14, whatever Anthony Levine Kane, so that would have been right after the Super Bowl. Am I right in saying that?

Luke Jones  40:23

No, he he actually arrived during like that Super Bowl year, but he was on IR. I mean, 13 would have been the first year he actually played for them. I was any meaningful degree

Nestor Aparicio  40:33

out at the facility, and I was eating with Joe Flacco in the in the cafeteria. I don’t know why, maybe my wife had cancer, or maybe, or were you doing the book? I was doing the book. Maybe I was doing the book. I was doing the book. Yeah, I put Joe and I were eating together, which is really rare. I mean, I ate in there with Kevin Byrne ate and there were John Harbaugh Atene with Dick. I mean, I ate in there, but like, and I ate there every year when we do the liar’s luncheon. But like, I was eating a meal at a table with Joe, just at an odd time, or, I think I met Joe, and Joe’s like, I want to eat. Come in the cafeteria and sit down and we’ll talk. And I was in there, and, okay, I came up to the table and sat down and saw me talking to Joe, and must have thought I was important. It was definitely after Joe won the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? It was definitely because Joe was a big deal, and he was a Super Bowl MVP at that pub. Not a big deal anymore, but he’s a big deal then, and Anthony Levine came up to me and introduced himself in like, the funniest way, like he’s he’s a funny guy. Yeah, I text him last week when he got the job, and I told him, don’t lose your sense of humor, because he made me laugh Atlanta. And I don’t think Joe knew who he was. He kind of came up to me and Joe and said, I’m Anthony Levine. I’m, you know, and he sat down with us and and I’m thinking to myself, those are the kinds of things that you’re exactly what you’re talking about, that there’s a kid there who was end of the roster, special team wasn’t going to be good enough to play and be an every down player, and walks in now he’s a coordinator League 10 years later, because he knew how to talk to people. He wanted to know me, because I knew Joe, you know. And I think that there’s the humanity that that, quite frankly, Chad steel has sucked out of this that Kevin Byrne and every other PR person I’ve ever respected, and I’ve respected almost all of them, almost all of them only named Bader and Steele people that had no business being in that industry. But the idea was, and this was Kevin Byrne. We’re good people around here. And if you talk to our people, you’ll see we’re good people, and we want to be good people. And art wants to hire good people, and David wants to hire good people. And you know what? I want to work with good people. And Ozzy wants good people. And so does Ted, and so does Marvin. And he met Marvin and Jim short, they’re good people. We want good people here. And if Ray Lewis isn’t a good person, we’re going to work with him and make him a better person. We’re going to bring him in. He’s young. We’re going to take young people, troubled people, and make them better people. Ask Brad Jackson, ask anyone Young who was around the team at that point. The idea was, go do Nestor is radio show. It’s over in Parkville, you’ll you’ll meet some real people. You’ll meet some like you’ll meet your fans. You’ll meet the people paying your salary. You’ll respect that. You’ll meet the guy who’s making the crab cakes there, and all of these, mainly young African American men of very humble means, or even worse, poverty means, in some cases, ask Jamil McClain about his childhood. You know that they got to a point where there was a humanity about this short what they thought was a white guy. I’m definitely not white. I’m Hispanic. That this strange fellow walking around that Matt stover and I, who have nothing in common, politically, religiously, spiritually, or anything else, other than we’re human and we like each other, the 30 years later, we would still be a reach away, or that when we’re in a room together, we wind up together for no good reason, and we don’t talk about Trump, we don’t talk about that, we talk about the good things in life. And I having that taken away from me is offensive to me. It should be offensive to all of them that they don’t want any experiential humanity. And it really speaks to bishati lack of emotional intelligence, and he can have all the money in the world, but I don’t think he’s a good man, and I think it emanates down from all of that. And I think these billionaires aren’t the best people, and I think they’re, they’re, they’re their worst angels ride them about paranoia and their money and their wealth and their value and how they earned it. And, um. Um, and then what they do with it, because the young people that come through the organization, there was a humanity there 30 years ago, that if there wasn’t enough toilet paper, or this didn’t happen, or that whatever the tent was this, or the building was cold, or the hot tub wasn’t working. I mean, that was definitely something that when I’ve had Mark Messina on the show at length, who’s now the county commissioner up in Pennsylvania, he would say that when his brother left the Orioles and went to the Yankees, his brother’s observation was anything that was wrong was made right. And not because he was Mike Messina, but because they were the Yankees, that if the hot tub was broken, Angelos would be suing the person that fixed it, and Steinbrenner would just have it fixed and improved. And that’s why the Yankees won, and that’s why the Orioles didn’t win. And so there is a point in all of that that trying to tourniquet that and cut off all of it, we went from beyond report cards. But I get to give a report card too. You know, I’m a John McCain report card on what the Ravens have become, front facing, emotional intelligence, taking money from the state, all of that they don’t want. They don’t want any accountability, and that that would come back to the quiz. Accountability is not something that they it’s not front and center for you when you’re making $200 million a year.

8

Luke Jones  46:35

It’s just not yet everyone still watches.

Nestor Aparicio  46:40

They do, they do. Luke Jones, you got no cherry on top for me, you got no what have we learned here?

Luke Jones  46:44

That was kind of it. I mean, you know, like, like I said, I mean, NFL owners clearly had better lawyers in that fight, and the report cards will continue. Hope, I hope. My hope is that even if it’s private feedback, it will still fall on ears that will listen, at least in some cases. And I think it does, to the point I made, the Ravens players had complaints in recent years on those report cards, and the Ravens addressed those things to your point, because they wanted to win, and that was good. And the players got, you know, they got better internally as a result, so that that’s what it’s for.

Nestor Aparicio  47:19

8

But yeah, the job was all about the weight room, right? I mean, that was, that was part of John’s,

Luke Jones  47:24

that was part of what they needed to fix, yeah, well, and, you know, they their strength coaches all that. I mean, they revamped that a few years ago. And, you know, I don’t know how much of it was solely because of that, and also the fact that I think injuries involve a lot of randomness and luck, or bad luck in some cases, but they identified some things they needed to do better, and they made changes to their credit, and players responded favorably. The grades went up in subsequent years in those departments. So, so yeah, I mean, I hope you know the idea you know as much as you know. I mean, the union has axes to grind to and and they have things that they want to address for their clientele, you know, for their people, but at the same time, like, I think this report card, whole thing was done with the intentions of making things better, and if you aren’t going to make things better and you’re it’s going to fall on deaf ears, well, then You’re going to be publicly shamed at least a little bit in the process of that, probably a lot worse. So after this, right? Like, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, the idea like, this

Nestor Aparicio  48:30

is going to make it worse, is it? This is, this is, this is kerosene. This is not water.

Luke Jones  48:35

That’s where, yeah, this is where I go back to the point in the system where it’s all released, it’s all there. So you’re sifting through all of it, and you’ve got to look through all of it to find the bad and that’s not tough to do. I mean, anyone can read the report card and see, oh, this team got an F when it comes to that, or this team got a D minus when it comes to that. But like I said, you’re now going to have leaks that. I doubt anyone’s going to leak the entire report card. But if teams have certain things that are really, really bad, those are going to be the things that get leaked first, and then that’s going to be a more you know, that that report’s going to stand alone, rather than, Oh, here’s this entire report card and all that. So it’ll be interesting to see what happens. But yeah, anytime you’re talking about something like this, I mean the idea that, Oh, they can’t put it out there publicly now, is it’s just ridiculous, but billionaires have the money to hire better lawyers, I suppose. So that’s ultimately what ended up happening here.

Nestor Aparicio  49:30

Well, you might be onto the NFL Combine, but I’m on to spring training. I’m on to Sarasota games on the mass in on the mass and app. Well, we have real baseball happening. Any breaking news, Luke will get it to you first on the wnst tech service. It’s all brought to you by friends at cole roofing and Gordian energy. We have new sponsors here in farn and Durham, where they are the comfort guys. We’re wearing the gear. My H back had a little funky funkification with the smellification of the mustification, and they’ve helped me, and I’m appreciative for that. So. Our friends at Farnham and Dermer can help you. HVAC, AC. Don’t worry about that yet. Some plumbing as well. They’ve only been doing 100 years. So you can find them out on the web. You can find them out at Baltimore positive you can find me running around doing the Maryland crab cake tour. Set something up at Costas and Dundalk. We’re going to be down there in early March as well. And stuff going on at the state house as well. So I’m not having a lot of the local electeds on some hopefuls coming on before April as we get out of session, but plenty of important things going on around here, including spring training. And Luke and I will have it all coming at you. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We are W NSD. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.