Resurrecting The Boss

You can’t make the case for the present of the New York Yankees without knowing about the past. Author Mike Vaccaro tells Nestor tales of The Bosses Of The Bronx and talks baseball history and the legend and lore of the late, great George Steinbrenner and his impact on the franchise and MLB in his latest book.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Invite Mark Messina on the Baltimore Positive show later today to discuss the automated balls–strikes (ABS) system and how George Steinbrenner might view it.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Promote the Home Run Riches game to listeners by encouraging everyone to participate in the upcoming Maryland crab cake tour.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Arrange for Mike Vaccaro to return as a guest on the show during the next Yankees series in Baltimore.

Nestor Aparicio Introduces the Show and Guest

• Nestor Aparicio welcomes listeners to WNST AM 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and mentions the return from South America and the Maryland crab cake tour.
• Nestor talks about the breaking news coverage and mentions friends in the newspaper industry, including himself as an old newspaper guy.
• Nestor introduces Mike Vaccaro, a longtime voice at the New York Post, and discusses Mike’s focus on baseball.
• Mike Vaccaro agrees that baseball is the best sport for writing due to its everyday stories and unique experiences.

Nestor’s Childhood and Early Influences

• Nestor shares his childhood memories of reading Sports Illustrated and other baseball books, including “Bronx Zoo” and “Ball Four.”
• Nestor mentions his father’s love for baseball and how it influenced his own interest in the sport.
• Nestor asks Mike about his background and connection to the Bronx and the Yankees.
• Mike Vaccaro shares his upbringing in New York and his neutrality towards the Mets and Yankees, emphasizing his appreciation for the Yankees’ historical significance.

George Steinbrenner’s Impact on the Yankees

• Mike Vaccaro discusses George Steinbrenner’s influence on the Yankees, including his impactful decisions and personality.
• Mike explains how Steinbrenner’s vision and leadership transformed the Yankees from a struggling team to a World Series contender within a few years.
• Nestor and Mike compare Steinbrenner’s influence to Donald Trump’s, noting Steinbrenner’s ability to sell New York as a unique asset.
• Mike highlights Steinbrenner’s ability to attract top players like Reggie Jackson by leveraging the Yankees’ brand and New York’s appeal.

Steinbrenner’s Legacy and Controversies

• Nestor and Mike discuss Steinbrenner’s larger-than-life persona and his controversial decisions, including his firing of managers and players.
• Mike explains how Steinbrenner’s impulsive decisions led to a period of instability for the Yankees, with the team missing the playoffs for 18 years.
• Nestor shares his own experiences of seeing Steinbrenner at Yankee Stadium and the impact of his presence on the team and the city.
• Mike emphasizes the importance of Steinbrenner’s legacy and how his actions both positively and negatively influenced the Yankees.

The Evolution of Yankees Ownership

• Nestor and Mike discuss the current state of Yankees ownership under Hal Steinbrenner and how it differs from his father’s approach.
• Mike explains how Hal Steinbrenner’s more measured approach has led to a more stable and successful period for the Yankees.
• Nestor compares the Yankees’ consistent success to other major sports franchises, noting the Yankees’ unique ability to remain a contender year after year.
• Mike highlights the importance of winning for Steinbrenner and how it has shaped the team’s culture and expectations.

The Bosses of the Bronx: A New Perspective on Steinbrenner

• Nestor and Mike discuss the motivation behind Mike’s book, “The Bosses of the Bronx,” and its focus on Steinbrenner’s impact on the Yankees.
• Mike explains that the book is not a biography but rather a collection of stories that highlight Steinbrenner’s larger-than-life personality and the drama he brought to the team.
• Nestor shares his own experiences of covering the Yankees and the influence of Steinbrenner on the team and the city.
• Mike emphasizes the importance of remembering Steinbrenner’s legacy and the unique stories that defined his time with the Yankees.

The Impact of New Ownership in Baltimore

• Nestor discusses the new ownership in Baltimore and the excitement surrounding the team, including the acquisition of Pete Alonso.
• Nestor compares the new ownership to the Yankees’ consistent success and the impact of having a strong owner.
• Mike highlights the differences between Steinbrenner and other modern owners, noting the unique challenges and opportunities that come with owning a sports team.
• Nestor and Mike discuss the importance of having an owner who is invested in the team’s success and the impact it has on the players and fans.

The Introduction of the ABS System in Baseball

• Nestor and Mike discuss the introduction of the Automated Ball-Strike System (ABS) in baseball and its impact on the game.
• Mike explains the mechanics of the ABS system and how it aims to improve the accuracy of umpire calls.
• Nestor shares his initial impressions of the ABS system and its potential to make the game more interesting and fair.
• Mike highlights the challenges and adjustments that teams and players will need to make as they adapt to the new system.

The Role of Umpires in the ABS System

• Nestor and Mike discuss the role of umpires in the ABS system and how they will need to adapt to the new technology.
• Mike explains how umpires will be able to consult with the main office to ensure consistency in their strike zones.
• Nestor shares his thoughts on the importance of umpires in the game and how the ABS system will impact their role.
• Mike emphasizes the need for umpires to maintain their own consistency and the importance of getting calls right.

The Future of the ABS System and Baseball

• Nestor and Mike discuss the potential long-term impact of the ABS system on baseball and the game’s overall appeal.
• Mike highlights the importance of getting calls right and how the ABS system aims to improve the accuracy of umpire calls.
• Nestor shares his thoughts on the potential for the ABS system to make the game more interesting and engaging for fans.
• Mike emphasizes the need for continued adjustments and improvements to ensure the system’s success and the satisfaction of fans and players.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

George Steinbrenner, New York Yankees, baseball history, Bronx Zoo, Mike Vaccaro, Yankees ownership, baseball drama, Steinbrenner legacy, Yankees success, baseball umpires, ABS system, sports writing, Yankees clubhouse, baseball books.

SPEAKERS

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Nestor Aparicio, Mike Vaccaro

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W n s t am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive, positively, back on the beat for baseball season around here and back from South America. We’re gonna be doing the Maryland crab cake tour in lots of places, including fatal ease next Friday, you can find it all out at Baltimore positive. And of course, there’s any breaking news. You always get that first on W NST tech service, brought to you by coal roofing and Gordian energy. Luke is on that, and he’ll be on football and baseball and all that. I got friends around the place that worked in the newspaper industry, because I’m an old newspaper guy myself, hot metal type, as John Steadman would say to me back in the day. And a lot of my old pals are inking books in recent times that Peter King on recently, I think, kerchief on last week, talking about the great sport of baseball. This guy’s been doing it in New York long enough that when I was nationally syndicated at the turn of the century Sporting News Radio, I used to see him Manning press boxes up in and around, not just the Bronx, but over into queens, even finding himself at various places, high above the world’s greatest showplace at Madison Square Garden. Mike Vaquero is a longtime voice at the New York Post and others in New York and all the sports, but I think baseball’s your number one, right, Mike, am I saying that right, or am I wrong?

Mike Vaccaro  01:16

No, I think you’re right. Baseball is the best riding sport there is. It always used to be baseball or boxing, and boxing and boxing is kind of taking a back seat now, but baseball, the everyday ness of it, the the 2526 different stories in the clubhouse every day that are wait there, waiting to be told. It’s a it’s a unique writing experience, for sure.

Nestor Aparicio  01:35

So when I was a boy in the 70s, I liked reading, but I liked magazine Sports Illustrated. This is where, like, when I get some old sage people on who wrote for the Sporting News or wrote for baseball digest I Barry, bloom on all the time. And I said, Barry, I’ve been reading you since I was eight years old. Don’t date me like that. But back in the 70s, my dad loved books. My dad was a reader. It’s part of the reason I am who I am at this point. My dad loved baseball. My dad bought the Bronx Zoo, Sparky Lyle, and my dad read ball four. And so the Bronx Zoo was the first baseball book that was ever in my house, other than Ted Williams in the science of hitting with the boxes, right, of course, but I see Bronx and the bosses of the Bronx, and I’m thinking, Bronx still sells. There was a Bronx Zoo now there’s bosses of the Bronx, and you really were indoctrinated into the Bronx Zoo, right? Like, give me a little bit of your background of when you came in on this, because Kevin cowherd is a buddy of mine here. He covered George Steinbrenner. He was in elevators with fights, and George would say something on the way up and something else on the way down, back during the Billy Martin era and all of that. There is something different about being New York and baseball and a writer of that era that we had, Angelos around here, really disappeared the last 20 years before he died. George never really disappeared. George. Is still not gone, sort of, right?

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Mike Vaccaro  03:03

15 years, 16 years after his death, he’s still very much a presence around the Yankees. There’s no doubt about it. Look, Nestor, I grew up in New York. I grew up on Long Island. I was of a house that we weren’t Mets fans or Yankees fans. We were New York fans. That was the way that my father raised. It’s rare. Rare. It is, well, it is rare. And it’s funny, once I got the high school I had to declare So, sadly for me, I declared the Mets jets and nicks, and that’s been a there they are that that was a long stretch of dark highway for me. But I always appreciate the Yankees. They’ve never, even when I was a kid, never rooted against the Yankees. It was always ingrained in me what the Yankees were to baseball. And so growing up in that time, you know, growing up in the 70s and the 80s, George Steinbrenner was omnipresent, you know, whether you wanted him to be or not. And in those years, a lot of Yankees fans wish he wasn’t quite so ubiquitous, because a lot of times he was just a little impetuous with his decision making and so forth. And Yankees spent 18 years outside the playoffs as a result of that, or outside of the World Series, I should say, without, without that. But he there’s no denying the impact he had the the just how over the top, he was a personality for the good and for the bad. And look, the Yankees were dying. They were, they were they had one foot out the door when he showed up, him and his partnership group in 1973 either for New Jersey or even for New Orleans, because the Superdome was being built and they wanted a baseball team. And the Yankees were the clear number two team in New York. They were almost chased out of town by the Mets, as hard as that is to believe in that time. And within three years, they were in the World Series, and within four they’d won the World Series. And George wasn’t primarily or wasn’t solely responsible for that, but obviously it was his wisdom and his vision that really shaped what the Yankees became immediately and also long term

Nestor Aparicio  04:56

and but clearly you were watching the Yankees as a kid. And before Steinbrenner got involved in 73 when CBS owned the team, Mickey Mantle on the way out, Bobby Mercer, all of that kind of stuff, the Steinbrenner energy, it enveloped everything, not just and some of this is about Trump too. It sort of enveloped the city, right? Like Trump wanted to emulate, Steinbrenner still kind of does, and you know, in all the worst ways, but Steinbrenner was that original, larger than life. He got to stand on top of the Empire State Building like a gorilla because he owned the Yankees, right?

Mike Vaccaro  05:36

Yeah. And there’s no question you know, for better or worse than Trump studied Georgia’s playbook. I mean, he sounds like him. He talks like him. When you read the book, you’ll see a bunch of George quotes, and you’ll, you’ll shake your head, and you say this, this is exactly, this is exactly Donald Trump talking only about other subject matters. You know, they were friends. I mean, Trump was always one of the boldface names in steinbrenner’s box on opening day or for the World Series. And you’re right, I mean. And the thing that Steinman realized from day one was the enormity of New York, and the enormity of New York as an asset to him. You know, when he wound up signing ball players that really made the impact, Catherine Sean and Reggie Jackson, he wasn’t, he wasn’t always the top in fact, he was never the top bidder. He was always outbid by a million dollars or two. But he had New York to sell, and he sold it. He had the Yankees to sell, and he sold them. He had all of what New York can bring, someone like Reggie Jackson, who was really born to play in New York City. And again, you can say that for better or for worse, but you know, His ego was such that that New York was really the only city that was big enough for him. And George appealed that part of Reggie, Reggie was, was a willing participant. And obviously the two of them worked together for five very tempestuous years.

Nestor Aparicio  06:46

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Everything was tempestuous with George. Though everything was like everything was, did anybody ever have a smooth relationship with him? I like and I guess you’re part of the book, and you writing the book was getting these tales told one more time in some sort of way where there is some distance, because it’s a million books been written about

Mike Vaccaro  07:05

George Steinbrenner, right, right? And think of it as, I mean, this isn’t a biography, you know. It’s not a strict biography. You know, Bill Madden wrote a great biography about him just before George died. Dick Schaap wrote a biography of him back in the 70s. There are other biographies that deal with his upbringing. Cleveland go into detail of that and and his and all the other stuff. But you know, honestly, Nestor, what I what I thought would be the best reason to write this book is because there’s so many generations of Yankees fans now who either weren’t alive or don’t remember what George was, when he was George, and, I mean, bold faced all caps, George, when he was on the back page every day, when he was driving Yankees fans crazy, when he was just an outsized personality. People just remember him at the end, when he was a little quieter, a little slower. You know, kind of this, you know, kindly old neighbor who was show up at Yankee Stadium and get ovations. But you know, you and I both know there was, there were plenty of times when he got booed in his own stadium. We got chanted derisively with, you know, unprintable words before his name and after his name. You know, the first time

Nestor Aparicio  08:02

I ever went to New York was in 92 when I got sort of on the radio and on the beat I started in my career in the 80s. And Steinbrenner is larger than life when I made it to Yankee Stadium for it was a bad time at Yankee Stadium. You know, it was like it was post Ed Whitson. It was sort of Mattingly. Had the corner office in the in the locker room there at that time, but they weren’t very good, and the state tickets weren’t selling and and I remembered seeing him that day like in a larger than life way, like I’m walking through that tunnel underneath of the old Yankee Stadium. There’s George Steinbrenner standing in there. I’m 23 years old, I would say, star struck or awestruck, but sort of like, that’s the real George Steinbrenner right there, and right those weren’t good times. I mean, you know, until 96 in the white horses and weight bogs, and I was there that night too, there was, there was a lot of warning for George, and a lot of spending money, and a lot of headlines that people like you were writing, but it wasn’t about championships. It wasn’t about Mariano Rivera. And what became of that between, let’s say, 96 and even today, I would say so the Red Sox kind of took over a little bit 10 years later. Yeah.

Mike Vaccaro  09:17

You know, Nestor winning is the great deodorant, right? I had a conversation with Jim Dolan about 1015, years ago. And you know, Dolan owns the Knicks and the Rangers. He’s spent a lot of that time vastly unpopular among his fans. And he asked me one time, he said, I don’t think there’s ever been an owner who’s been treated as badly as I had by his own fans. He said, You know, every time I walk into the building and say, Hey, study Dolan, you stink. It’s this. And that. He said, No one’s ever been treated like that. And I laughed. And I say, well, due respect, Steinbrenner was and Dolan said, Steinbrenner, by the end, he was treated like a king. What are you talking about? And I said, Sure, by the end, but you don’t remember. Weren’t around for the Steinbrenner. You know who? When Reggie Jackson returned, hit home run off Ryan guindry IN THE. Rain in 1982 the whole stadium is chanting, Steinbrenner sucks. You were there in 1890 when he was thrown out of baseball for the second time. And the word got around Yankee Stadium and people started chanting, goodbye George. It was a gleeful moment for the Yankees fans. It’s hard to it’s hard to attach that George with the with the George later on, but that’s part of the motivation for writing the book is remembering and not just to disparage what he was, but to celebrate the fact that this guy was, was was all things good and all things bad, all within one lifetime. And to me, that’s what makes you a terrific candidate to have your life represented between the pages of a book.

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Nestor Aparicio  10:35

Well, we finally have new ownership here in Baltimore, and I mean, I having Zach Dermer, one of my sponsors, on from the comfort guys later, 35 years old, he didn’t know any life here ever other than Angelos. Angelos was the only owner he ever knew. And he’s 35 years old, and I’m thinking to myself, we have new ownership here now. They’ve gone and stolen Pete Alonso from your Mets up there and and we’re open for business. And they gave Shane boss money before even throw a pitch this year. And all that owners in the modern era are a lot of time that they evaporate behind the closed doors. They don’t come out. And bishati has spoken one time in the last decade. Literally, here in Baltimore is the football owner. He knows better. And this is a still small provincial town in New York, there have been such a wide swath, if you count hockey, basketball and Dolan’s been as as a big a part of it. He face recognizes me every time I go in the garden, yeah, and it would throw me out if I ever sued him. I found all that out. But Steinbrenner is, I would say, the gold standard of what bigger than the franchise? Bigger than that? I don’t, I don’t think of the Lakers and think bus I don’t think of even, you know, the bulls and think of Ryan store, you know, whatever the name would associate with. Maybe, maybe Mark Cuban had that a little bit with the Dallas Mavericks. But the celebrity part of it, but not just for the celebrity sake. I mean, David Rubenstein wants to be a celebrity. He’s made bobble edge himself, but he didn’t know anybody baseball. Steinbrenner was negotiating in on it. I in 1992 when Rick sirone, not the catcher, the PR guy, I remember meeting him and saying, you got, you got to have the toughest job on earth being the PR guy for a baseball team that really isn’t the New York Yankees. It’s New York steinbrenner’s Because it felt that way for a good 20 years. That’ll never happen again. That’ll just never based on even Jerry Jones and Robert. Maybe Jerry with the with the cowboy. Maybe Jerry is the Cowboys in that sort of way. Maybe that’s the only thing I can compare it to. And he’s had no success at all in 30 years. So, um, that’s a failure. That’s not really, it’s a financial success, but for being beloved, they all want a statue. They all want to be beloved, man,

Mike Vaccaro  12:55

yeah, and they’re all wanting when compared to George. Look, I mean, I think you’re right. I think the two names of people who are still around that jump to mind are both the Dallas guys. Cuban, of course, he’s no longer with the team, but, you know, he was a guy who would sue, who would spout off once in a while, and it was vaguely interesting. Jones is obviously, you know, personality wise, is something of a link, because he’s so over the top. You know, he has, I think, two radio shows in Dallas. I mean, George never even did that. And he’s and he’s so closely associated with it, with with the cowboys and recently, for the bad so, yeah, they’ve had 30 years that were basically Stein runners, 1980s with the Yankees, when he was everywhere, but he was making all the wrong moves. The only guy that, I think that ever, ever was was truly comparable to him, Nestor was Al Davis, interestingly enough, because they were both close friends, they were both born on the same day, July the fourth, one year apart. Davis was a year older, and Davis was the kind of guy if you know, Davis was a New Yorker. If he had owned the jets of the giants, I think he might have done similar things to George in terms of just his just being omnipresent and being something of a looming Godfather presence, no matter what anybody did, it was a little different because, because of where he operated. But he always kept that New York, you know, sense to him. And, you know, whenever I would talk to him, I felt like I was talking to George. And whenever I was talking to George, I felt I was talking Al Davis. I mean, they spoke in the same platitudes. They spoke with the same kind of, you know, BAM bust and bellicose bellicosity, if you will. And so, you know, but even Al, you know, wasn’t quite as proficient with getting his name in the paper, you know, I’m not sure that l necessarily liked getting his name in the paper, but he knew it was good

Nestor Aparicio  14:35

for business. George. Al didn’t want to be loved, though, but it felt like George wanted to be loved.

Mike Vaccaro  14:39

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George would have preferred to be loved, but he also preferred to win. So he also, you know, he really, he really didn’t, you know, embrace the whole notion of being the boss with his arms folded, stern, but he also really liked it toward the end, when his players loved to dump the champagne on his head. So, you know, he was a guy who always wanted to be one of the guys, but also also wanted to be the boss. That’s a hard dance to, you know, to dance, it’s impossible

Nestor Aparicio  14:59

and really stupid. Never wanted to do commercials. Al Davis never wanted to do that. I mean, that’s where

Mike Vaccaro  15:04

Steinbeck or separates himself from anybody. I mean, don’t forget, when you’re talking about a steinbender, you’re talking about a guy who hosted Saturday Night Live. I can’t imagine Al Davis or Jerry Jones even hosting Saturday Night Live. I mean, there was a whole Seinfeld thing, and I get it, you know, he wasn’t actually on Seinfeld and, you know, and I think when people think of steinbrenner’s voice, they think more of Larry David’s voice than steinbrenner’s. But he embraced and appreciated the fact that that was a hilarious bit, and people, people probably thought better of him because of it, you know, in the fact that they included the Yankees on those shows all that stuff. I mean, he embraced, you know, Billy Joel had a famous line. You know, the Yankees grab the headlines every time. Well, guess why they did? Because George was there was the owner. He made sure they did. I mean, these are things that George loved about being the owner of the Yankees. He loved the fact that he wasn’t contained just to his office, and that he was a guy. Look, when he was a businessman in Cleveland, all he dreamed about was getting a good table at 21 right? And invariably, when his secretary would call ahead, he’d get the second floor at four o’clock in the afternoon. Meanwhile, later on his life, he could have, he could have rented out the entire building, and they would have asked, how many times a week do you want to do that? Mr. Steinbrenner, so that’s the kind of stuff that also appealed to him.

Nestor Aparicio  16:12

What made the book like you had to write it right now. And by the way, Mike Vaquero is our guest. The book is the bosses of the Bronx. And I love this, the endless drama of the Yankees under the house of Steinbrenner. They have a house there, right? Like, I mean literally, it’s moved on if George were alive to know what has happened. You know, the fact that it’s stayed within the family, the fact that the new stadium has happened like to win more, obviously, but it’s not like they don’t try. And every time I go to New York, I always feel like y’all are spoiled because, like, I’ve had the Orioles here. This is the first April I’ve been on the radio 35 years here. Mike, I know I don’t look that old, but I have been. I can’t, I don’t think we’ve had eight April’s that have. We literally can go on, and this is one of them where we’re like, we have a chance to be a playoff team this year. They’re great. There’s not been a lot of that here. There’s never been that new in 35 years. There has never been a year where Yankees are gonna suck this year that just does not exist. And that’s I don’t I when I think of the Chicago Bulls or the LA Lakers or LeBron or any of the other sports as Ovechkin leaves DC and whatever, there’s no other franchise in North America that I could say that about, not the 40 Niners, the Cowboys, the Steelers, the pick, any patriots, anyone you want. They’ve all had a year where at the beginning of the year, you’re like, you know, Brady’s gone. They’re just not. They’re only going to win five or six games this year. Belichick is going to get fired, whatever it’s going to be. The Yankees don’t tolerate that, and I guess the Dodgers have now moved into a space where we might that might just be the case because of payroll and because of the disparity, and baseball is set up in that way, but the Yankees are eternally a contender.

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Mike Vaccaro  18:05

They are. I mean, since 1995 I think they missed the playoffs five times, which is extraordinary. And look, I George knew what he was doing when he sort of made certain that how was going to was going to succeed him. He knew how was very different, one very different than him, personality, wise, temperate, wise, and he has been sometimes to the frustration of Yankees fans. Look, I mean, he’s he’s allowed Aaron Boone to stay on the job since 2018 there’s no way that George would have done that if it was George. Now, Boone might be the manager today, but it might be his second or third tenure. A lot. Billy Martin, same thing with Brian Cashman. He would keep bringing back different members of his circle of trust after the trust, you know, want him evaporating now, and I’m here to tell you that’s not necessarily for the good to act the way Jersey I know. You know, I always get fans. You know, whenever the Yankees are scuffling at some point during the season, you know, if only George was still alive, what would George do? And I get it, because there’s this notion and this mythology that all he would do is is bark and yell and all of a sudden things would magically change for the Yankees. Well, I’m also here to tell you that from 1978 to 1996 the Yankees didn’t win a championship, and that was primarily because George kept a firing all the managers and firing all the pitching coaches and B he used to get mad at losing streaks, and so he trade Fred McGriff or Willie McGee or famously Jay Buhner and get nothing in return. And that’s what caused the Yankees drought, you know, and that drought is actually longer than the one they’ve had. Now, I know it’s hilarious for people in Baltimore or any most other cities to hear the word drought. You know, the Yankees did win the World Series in 2009 but the thing of it is, and to house credit, you know, he doesn’t look at this as a burden. I mean, he’s always said, I look at owning the Yankees being a privilege. He’s He’s privileged to carry on Georgia’s legacy. He. If he doesn’t do it the same way his father would have done it. And look, I mean, the one thing that bothers him is when people don’t think he wants to win. I mean, I can tell you that the guy burns to win. He told me a story that I think really symbolizes the difference between him and his father. And he would say, You know what, if I’m watching the game and the Yankees committing there in the ninth inning, we blow the game, we lose. I throw my shoe with the TV. You bet I do. He said the difference is, my father, he’d watch us lose a game, or in the ninth inning, throw a shoe with the TV. Then he picked up the phone and call the daily news in the post and news day and say, You know what I just did, I just threw my shoe with the TV. And there’s three days worth of back pages right there. How’s never going to do that. No other owner in creation is ever going to do that, but George routinely did it. And that’s a that’s the thing that I think I enjoy most about the narrative of this book, and I think people have really picked up on, is that it wasn’t just that it was kind of nutty. It was like, there was like, different different levels of nutty environment when you were associated George, you know, and sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad and but I mean, the stories themselves are almost too, almost too crazy to believe, and yet they all happened, and they all happened as I think I presented in the book. So I think that’s part of it. Also, house is not like that. How is that going to generate that kind of information?

Nestor Aparicio  21:13

I’m going to have Mark Messina on later in the day. Mark and I are lifer friends and loves baseball. We’re going to talk about this ABS thing, and I want to ask you what George would have made all that. But Mark always likes to tell me the story. And I, you know, I knew Mike pitching here and all that, that when Mike made that transition from Angelos to to New York at a very, very um, fractured time in Baltimore, you know, the Ravens had just come and won the Super Bowl, it was turn of the century, and Messina never got the ring there, and all of that. But that, when Mike went there, he said the difference in Baltimore was, if the hot tub was broken, Peter was looking to sue the hot tub person in New York, George would just fix the hot tub right, and would be pissed at whoever didn’t fix it, if it wasn’t fixed that George just wanted, by the time Mike got there Right, like there was nothing about the Yankee experience that wasn’t, we want to win, and there was nothing about the Orioles experience that wasn’t, we want to sue somebody and be

Mike Vaccaro  22:14

angry all day. Nestor. Great example, a great example of that is the 2000 World Series. Yankees won the first two games against the Mets. Mets Win Game three. And during game three, there’s like a pipe burst in the Yankee clubhouse, and it was a mess. And look, the Mets, the Mets visiting clubhouse was always kind of, you know, second rate. I mean, they did that on purpose, obviously, because you get the home field advantage any way you can. And by the time the Yankees showed up for work on Game four, all of this, to all of the furniture from the Yankee clubhouse at Yankee Stadium had been U hauled from the Bronx to the queens. So when they walked into the Yankees visiting the Mets visiting clubhouse, the Yankees clubhouse at Chase stadium, it looked like the Yankees clubhouse, and no one said a word. No one. Everyone did it. Everyone was responsible for it. But that totally underlines the good aspect of George that right? You just exactly what you just said there. You know what this? This is the way it is. I’m gonna fix it. How can I fix it? I can make it feel more comfortable. And guess what? They won the next they won the next big two games and won the World Series. Did that have was that the reason why they won the World Series? I bet

Nestor Aparicio  23:15

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it didn’t hurt. What’s your favorite story in your book?

Mike Vaccaro  23:18

Mike, you know what I the one, the one that makes me laugh, still just rereading it, and it just tells you just what life with George was like. You know, it wasn’t like. It was like, Oh my God, my owner had a meltdown today, really, around the Yankees, it was, it was Tuesday or Thursday. It was just a normal day of operation, last day of spring training. 1999 decade. Robu, who had been, you know, a prize acquisition when he became a Yankee, never really panned out. He was always overweight. He smoked in the dugout, you know, did what was, didn’t take care of himself. Sadly, passed away early, but on the last day of spring training, he failed to cover first base, and it just sent George into apoplexy. And of course, all the writers, all we want to do is get on the plane, get home, right? But we have to, you know, George is there. So we ask him, What do you think about about a decade? And he said, That guy, he’s a fat pussy toad. And, you know, you hear that, you’re like, that’s funny, you know, you think about pussy toads, you know, green ooze, whatever. You get up to the press box, you start to type, and you’re like, Oh my God, how do I type this? Where it doesn’t look like another word that probably shouldn’t mean a newspaper, right? And so we all retreat basically to our corners of the clubhouse and talk to our our respective offices about how we’re supposed to, you know, spell pussy. And, you know, everybody had their own way of doing it. But, you know, the interesting one is that I was at the star ledger at the time, and we had just started a pretty close personal relationship with the sopranos, the producers of The Sopranos, because that was the newspaper that Tony Soprano picked up the bottom of his driveway every day in about 40 episodes, and we had already broken down the doors of decorum. Because, as you know, salmon Sierra, one of his best friends, had a nickname, and we already published that nickname, so they were fine that people might be confused. They just thought that we should use a different spelling. So we did. So we spelled it, P, U, S, S, I, E, and, you know. It was another it was it was it was five hours of just sheer lunacy, but that’s just another day under the house of steinbender, at least when the father on the team, it was just routine to go through days like that. And it was funny, because I went through it, and even I had to kind of be reminded of just what it was like, because it was so routine going back and reading some of the stories that we were writing. You know, that day, I’m not going to take you

Nestor Aparicio  25:21

down the Trump highway, but I would have said Steinbrenner would have been a real pisser on Twitter. I don’t think there’s any question about that, right?

Mike Vaccaro  25:26

He would have been like this every day, and they would have basically either had to just roll their eyes and say, let the old man go, or somebody would have to take his phone away. There’s no question

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Nestor Aparicio  25:36

about that. Mike Vaquero is ink the book the bosses of the Bronx. You can find this book anywhere. Good books are sold. It’s out on Amazon. It’s in all sorts of places, and you’re having a good time with your friends and doing signings. Hats off to you, anybody getting books done and all that. But I see you’re getting surrounded by all the love that is sports writer love, and people that like your work and have been waiting for these stories to come together. So I’m proud of you, and hats off to you for making it happen.

Mike Vaccaro  26:02

Nestor, my friend, you’ve always been really good to me, and I appreciate a few minutes to talk about this. I know that. You know, it’s exciting times in Baltimore. I mean, I do think this is going to be a really fun summer for you guys, and you’re going to, you’re going to enjoy Alonso every day, because he’s just, he’s just, he’s a he’s a gym to deal with, and he’s just a fun guy to watch swing the bat.

Nestor Aparicio  26:20

Well, last thing I got for you is the ABS system, and not just what George would make of it. We’re a couple days into this as we record this, okay? And on Sunday afternoon, it completely changed the perspective of the game. My wife and I are sitting there watching. My wife’s like, it’s like a whole different game. And I’m like, Yeah, it really is. I, um, I thought that they would just do away with umpires, and we would just get the box. They’ll never do that, because it takes away the conflict. You know, like, the umpire is more important than ever. Now, they should never get rid of this. I’m only three days into it, and I’m like, This is great. They need to give them three, not two in a game, because you got to have one. And I also think that

Mike Vaccaro  27:00

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if you’re I think there’s a quirk in the rule, and it came to light in the Mets pirates game yesterday, if you go to extra innings, if you’re out of it, you get, you get an extra one, but if you have one, you don’t get an extra one, which seems strange to me, but that’s so but these are all things you can tweak. Yeah, you like it, or love it. I do. You know I like it because I think it’s, it’s good. I think what’s going to be really interesting is how teams adjust to it. Because, you know, it’s really interesting, right? You have to do it quick, and there’s only three people who can do it, the pitcher, catcher, batter. Catcher is the guy that I would rely on, because the catcher has the best perspective. He knows if it’s a ball or a strike. Pitcher might have an idea. But if the catcher is a degree, then they should just move on. The hitters. What you got to worry about? Because the hitter, they, Oh, they always think they’re getting, you know, hosed on a call and like what happened with in the game yesterday, in the course of an inning, one pirate asked for a shaky review. It was, wasn’t even close. Two matters later, strike three on a on a teammate. They didn’t feel like they could use their last challenge that early in the game. So he didn’t. It was clearly strike three. So it’s going to be an interesting dynamic, you know, because they’re going to, you know, look, there are some selfish players out there who really, don’t really think in the big picture about the team. They care about their own at bat. Now, they have the power to basically challenge on their own, and that’s going to be some interesting dynamics in addition. But look at me, that’s just an intriguing aspect of it to me overall, if you’re getting it right now, and you’re gonna eliminate these awful like next day videos of just these strikes that were four feet out the strike or, sorry, the strike zone, or balls that were right down the middle. You know that that’s the good thing. I mean, you know, it’s why replay, even though it can be annoying at the end of the day, is a good thing. You want to get it right. You know? I get the human element and all that, but you want to get it right.

Nestor Aparicio  28:44

I they find it hard to believe people are betting

Mike Vaccaro  28:46

on this. Mike, I believe it. I mean, there’s no question that they are and and, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a, I think, I think it’s a smart way to integrate it. I do. I’m with you. I thought that they would just have it and, you know, they would, they would kind of phase out umpires. But I think the but I think the umpires, like you said, are as integral and now as they ever been, because there is a limited amount. So you really do have to be judicious with, with with when you decide to second guess the umpire. What I like to and I didn’t realize this until watching games this weekend, umpires are allowed and, in fact, encouraged, even if there’s not a call, even if there’s a call for reversal, if there’s one in his mind that he thought was shaky, like in between innings, he can call, he can call the main the main office, say, was I? Was I right in that call? And they’ll say yes or no, and only he will know the answer, but now he’ll know, you know that they didn’t go forward with that strike zone for the rest of the day. I think it’s a really, I mean, that’s something that you’re really not going to think about much, but that’s a huge element. To it, also that the umpires, you know, will be able to maintain their own kind of consistency with what their strike zone looks like, calling balls

Nestor Aparicio  29:50

and strikes on the umpires actually, right.

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Mike Vaccaro  29:53

It’s exactly right, but I don’t think

Nestor Aparicio  29:54

they can ever do away with the I thought this was the end of umpires. No, I don’t. I. I go back to the night in Cuba, where I saw the manager come out yelling at the umpire, and everybody’s whistling and screaming, as we do in Latin culture. And I thought this is part of the drive. This is what’s made Steinbrenner sell, was that there there was some conflict, there was some drama, there was some trauma, there was some debate, there was some Fu Fu. There was ripping up on the rule book and all of that. I think that this and in the old days the umpires, you probably knew a lot more of them than I. I’ve only had a handful of interactions with umpires ever. I always found them be kind of arrogant and exactly what you would think they would be. But they’re out there getting yelled at by all night long, by everybody. I think that the umpire is integral, but I think the system and the fact that there’s there’s going to be conflict, that that’s going to make the game more interesting. I think the games have been more interesting the first week than they’ve ever been, just because every pitch now is in debate disputable, and if you really get it wrong, you can get it right right away. And if you think you got it wrong, you didn’t, you screwed your teammates. It’s, it’s so it’s, it’s raised the stakes. It’s made it more interesting.

Mike Vaccaro  31:07

And even in the era of replay, Nestor, I mean, Aaron moon gets tossed out of games five, six times a year. And really, you know, it’s like, it’s like arguing with a wall, right? Because once a replay is made, you really can’t argue with anybody arguing with a machine, basically. But you know, the emotions of the moment still exist. And and I think that was a that was something I was skeptical about when, when the entirety of replay was brought in, because how are we going to argue with within somebody who can’t fight back, but they find a way? And you know what I mean? I think that I, and again, as I said earlier, the most important thing is that you get it right. And I think that, I think all fans can appreciate that, even if the call goes against them, because they know that, you know, I’m sure that a Royals fan is going to give back the 85 World Series because of that bad call. But in theory, I think they can appreciate the idea that that call will be right, because someday it’s going to happen to their team. Also, I remember

Nestor Aparicio  31:58

8

when that note, the perfect game got taken away on a bad call. Another great

Mike Vaccaro  32:02

example, right? Yeah, right. And, you know, there seems to be a growing momentum for that game. Particular to look, everybody knows the call was wrong. I mean, the hitters know. The hitter knows the call was wrong. The other team knows what was wrong. The umpire certainly is already up to it. Why can’t we? And I know there’s the idea that you open up a Pandora’s box if you do that, but I don’t think anybody would mind if the record was corrected on that, on that one, on that one, and even if you just sit as a one shot deal, if the, if the, if the commissioner could sign an executive order, I don’t know if he’s inclined to do things like that, but that would be that that would be right, because I think that’s one thing that really sticks in people’s Craw, unless you’re a Cardinals fan and you’re gonna go to Your Grave just, you know, feeling that you’re one champion. You’re one championship late. Harry Wendell

Nestor Aparicio  32:44

stat Marylander, Baltimore guy, Mike Vaquero is here. He is inked the book the bosses of the Bronx. It is all about the tales of George Steinbrenner, which I’m going to laugh a lot when I read this, right?

Mike Vaccaro  32:57

I think you are Nestor, and that was the intention. There’s a lot of funny stories

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Nestor Aparicio  33:01

in there. I think I have sense of humor from my dad having the Bronx Zoo sitting right on his mantle next to the bed. Yeah, if you

Mike Vaccaro  33:09

thought the Bronx Zoo was funny, I think you’ll think

Nestor Aparicio  33:10

this was funny. My dad was a cheapskate. He was paperback Mike Vaquero can be found out on the interwebs. His book is also readily available. And I love talking baseball with you. We’ll have a little Ricky’s Baltimore trauma here. And you, you said about arguing balls and strikes, the twins manager got thrown out arguing and he he wasn’t even arguing the call. He was arguing whether the pitcher touched his hat quick enough or not. So we have a whole different level of of conflict which

Mike Vaccaro  33:37

8

you’re gonna have guys, you’re gonna have guys with stopwatches just trying to make sure you get the the two second the two second roll, right?

Nestor Aparicio  33:42

Look, man, I got these people around here that love the Ravens. You see, baseball’s boring or whatever, anything they could do to make baseball better after they did all the shifting and all of the adjusting and all of the metrics and all the saber and this and that, to get us excited about baseball again, oh yeah, means it’s springtime, and I love absolutely can’t wait. Nothing gets you more excited to Pete Alonso hit the bomb. Marilyn Monroe is going to have us out doing a Maryland crab cake tour as well. Home run riches is available as well. So I’m going to get everybody out to play that because if you are the winner, we got some boppers in the lineup here this year, and I’ll get Mike back on next time the Yankees come through. Here I am Nestor. We are W NSD am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive. You.