Staying true to your team even when you know they’re lying – or just incompetent

Sure, we kid our pal Mark Mussina about his lifelong loyalty to the Dallas Cowboys but we’re all guilty of being addicted to a team without consequences or, in some cases, any joy at all. Good times, bad times you know we’ve had our share but our favorite brother of a Hall of Famer returns to discuss poor ownership and the self-inflicted obligation of fan support even when you know it’s hopeless.

Nestor Aparicio and Mark Mussina discuss various topics, including Nestor’s Maryland crab cake tour, sponsored by the Maryland lottery, and his plans to visit Gertrude’s at the BMA and Planet Fitness in Timonium. Mark, now a county commissioner in Pennsylvania, shares insights on local politics and his family’s background. They also delve into the NFL and NFL playoffs, expressing frustration with the Kansas City Chiefs’ potential miss of the playoffs and the unpredictability of the league. The conversation shifts to baseball, focusing on the Baltimore Orioles’ struggles, player development, and the challenges of competing in a market dominated by larger teams like the Yankees and Red Sox. They also touch on the Orioles’ new ownership and the need for shrewd decision-making and player development.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Send crab soup from Costas to Eddie Lauer.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Attend Gertrude’s at the BMA with cousin John Shields and Dan Rodricks.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Import Costas crab cakes to the Planet Fitness grand opening in Timonium.

Maryland Crab Cake Tour and Personal Updates

• Nestor Aparicio introduces the Maryland crab cake tour, sponsored by the Maryland lottery, and mentions various events and locations.
• Nestor discusses sending crab soup to Eddie Lauer, who had a heart transplant and is doing well but unable to attend events.
• Nestor plans to visit Gertrude’s at the BMA with his cousin John Shields and Dan Rogers.
• Nestor mentions a Planet Fitness grand opening in Timonium, where he will import Costas crab cakes.

Mark Mussina’s Political Venture

• Nestor introduces Mark Mussina, a former co-host and roommate, now an elected official in Mentorville, PA.
• Mark explains the political landscape in his county, mentioning the lack of Democrats and the unique system of county commissioners.
• Mark shares his background, including his mother’s long career as an OB-GYN nurse, which helped him gain local recognition.
• Nestor and Mark discuss the challenges and rewards of raising children, with Mark mentioning his youngest son’s final exam and upcoming assignment.

NFL Playoffs and Team Dynamics

• Nestor and Mark discuss the unpredictability of the NFL playoffs, mentioning teams like Kansas City, Denver, and New England.
• Mark compares the current NFL landscape to Duke basketball, noting the public’s desire for new teams to succeed.
• Nestor and Mark discuss the impact of successful franchises like the Cowboys and the Yankees, and the public’s perception of their owners.
• Mark shares his thoughts on the Cowboys’ trade of Micah Parsons and the team’s focus on being part of the show.

Orioles and Ownership Challenges

• Nestor and Mark shift the conversation to the Baltimore Orioles, discussing the team’s ownership and management.
• Mark expresses concern about the Orioles’ player development and coaching, comparing them to the Rays and the Yankees.
• Nestor mentions the challenges of the new ownership group, including their lack of baseball knowledge and the financial pressures on the team.
• Mark highlights the importance of player development and the need for great coaches at all levels of the minor league system.

Baseball Player Development and Coaching

• Nestor and Mark discuss the importance of player development and the role of coaches in shaping young players’ careers.
• Mark shares anecdotes about his brother’s influence on his son’s pitching and the challenges of coaching at different levels.
• Nestor and Mark talk about the impact of player development on team success, using examples like the Blue Jays and the Rays.
• Mark emphasizes the need for organizations to have great coaches and teachers at all levels to ensure long-term success.

Orioles’ Future and Market Challenges

• Nestor and Mark discuss the Orioles’ future, including the challenges of competing in a market dominated by larger teams like the Yankees and Red Sox.
• Mark highlights the importance of shrewd decision-making and player development for teams like the Orioles to succeed.
• Nestor mentions the impact of the new media deal on revenue distribution and the financial pressures on smaller market teams.
• Mark compares the Orioles’ situation to other successful teams like the St. Louis Cardinals and the Tampa Bay Rays, emphasizing the need for a strong business model.

College Sports and Revenue Inequality

• Nestor and Mark discuss the challenges of college sports, including revenue inequality and the impact on team success.
• Mark highlights the success of teams like Indiana and Texas A&M, which have found ways to compete despite financial constraints.
• Nestor and Mark talk about the importance of finding great coaches and managers to lead successful programs.
• Mark emphasizes the need for equal access to facilities and resources to ensure fair competition in college sports.

Labor Disputes and Ownership Dynamics

• Nestor and Mark discuss the potential labor disputes in baseball and the impact on team operations.
• Mark shares his thoughts on the challenges of managing a team during a labor dispute and the importance of player development.
• Nestor mentions the historical context of labor disputes in baseball and the role of player representatives.
• Mark highlights the need for owners to understand the business model and the importance of player development for long-term success.

Personal Reflections and Future Plans

• Nestor and Mark reflect on their personal experiences and the impact of their roles on their lives.
• Mark shares his plans for the future, including his work as a county commissioner and his involvement in the community.
• Nestor expresses his appreciation for Mark’s contributions and their ongoing friendship.
• Mark and Nestor discuss their shared love for sports and the importance of staying connected with their communities.

Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

• Nestor and Mark wrap up their conversation, sharing final thoughts on the topics discussed.
• Mark expresses his gratitude for the opportunity to share his insights and experiences.
• Nestor thanks Mark for his time and wishes him and his family a happy holiday season.
• The conversation ends with Nestor promoting the Maryland crab cake tour and his radio show, WNST AM 1570.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

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Maryland crab cake tour, Maryland lottery, Eddie Lauer, Gertrude’s at BMA, Planet Fitness, Mark Mussina, county commissioner, small town America, NFL playoffs, Kansas City Chiefs, Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens, Orioles ownership, player development, minor league coaching.

SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Mark Mussina

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We’re Baltimore positive. We’re taking this thing out on the road. It’s a Maryland crab cake tour throughout the holidays. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. I have Raven scratch offs in the beginning. Then I’m getting some candy cane scented tickets, because I want my bag to smell like peppermint by the time I get to cost this and Gina shock say, Where are the candy canes? John Allen’s coming out. I’m getting all the rock star buddies together. We’re gonna honor our dear friend, Eddie Lauer, who’s had a heart transplant, is doing well, but not well enough to come to Costas, but probably well enough to eat something to carry out. I fully intend on sending Eddie some crab soup from Costas. Next Friday, will be at Gertrude, at the BMA going up scale with my cousin John shields, Chef John, who

Nestor Aparicio  00:46

my son’s wife, is his cousin, so like, it’s really by marriage. And Dan Rogers going to join us at Gertrude. And then on the 22nd we’re going to be at Planet Fitness in Timonium. I’m going to import the Costas crab cake. They got a grand opening at Planet Fitness, and everybody should get in the great shape that I’m in for 2026 mark. Messina is my guest. He’s my one of my favorite all time guests, former co host here and former roommate for a little while on Kane Street. And he’s Baltimore. He joins us now as an elected official. I’ll let him explain that to you in beautiful mentorsville, where he’s still less famous than his brother, but it probably didn’t hurt having Messina for county commissioner, like on signs, right? Your brother first, your brothers helped you in that way a little bit, right?

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Mark Mussina  01:30

Maybe, yeah, you know. So I never like, this is my first venture in and, and I probably said this before, but there just aren’t any Democrats here.

Mark Mussina  01:40

And, and the way the system works is you have three county commissioners, but there can only be two of any one party, so there had to be a Democrat. So literally, there was, like a back door cover, if you’re a gambler, like, sort of Yeah, a little bit, a little bit yeah. It’s like, the only the mayor of Williamsport is now a Democrat, but that hadn’t been for a long time. But it’s really like the only thing you can win. So

Mark Mussina  02:04

the other four people that were running at the time, I’d never heard of any of them, or there are three people. I was the fourth. And just in talking to people who know this stuff, they’re like, listen that the goal, your first goal, is to get your name out there. And the guy’s like, your name’s out there on steroids, even if they don’t know who you are or who you are. But also, like in small town America, meal, my mom was an OB GYN nurse for 35 years, so like half of the women in like, coming county have been through my mom’s doctor’s office. So, you know. And just generalization. So there’s all that other stupid stuff too. Like, how many people? Like, obviously, people know, Mike, but there it’s all these people, like, Oh, your mom was my nurse, and they deliver this doctor delivered our kids, and so

Nestor Aparicio  02:54

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all that stuff, dude, that’s what I love about you, you know. Like, it like you wouldn’t consider you even imported a wife from Baltimore. You know, like children now, your kids are all left, though, right? So I see you doing the you know, I’ve been an empty Nestor for a long time, as you know, you know, lots of ways in empty Nestor, but you’re finally like bringing clear of children you were. You raised the family up there too. It’s different. And I actually, well, that, right?

Mark Mussina  03:19

Yeah, I’m going to my son. My youngest is a freshman at PIP and I’m going to pick him up this tonight. His last in class final is tonight, from six to eight. So we’ll get on the road at 830 and he’ll we’ll get home by, you know, 1230 or whatever. And then I think he has one more assignment that’s due that he can upload by Friday or something like that. But, yeah, so it is different. It is when you go from, you know, I’ve told people three kids to two kids, you know, you’re it’s two kids, even two kids to one kid, you know, you still one to zero, and now it’s like, wow,

Nestor Aparicio  03:59

you know, right? Yeah. Well, I called the talk sports, and you can go and check out county politics, and how many votes did you get?

Mark Mussina  04:10

I don’t even know, hundreds or 1000s. Hundreds, right? Oh, 1000s, 1000s. Yeah, there’s, like bigger there’s like 100,000 people in the county, okay, that’s a

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Nestor Aparicio  04:19

nice size County, even by Maryland standard, that’s a nice size County. It’s not small.

Mark Mussina  04:23

Yeah, we’re very there’s like 67 counties in Pennsylvania. We’re in the bigger half.

Nestor Aparicio  04:29

So how many schools in that county that would probably high schools, eight. Okay, all right. I mean, that gives me a little bit of a scope. So because people think they don’t know where you are, they know the Little League World Series and like, but I’ve been lucky enough to drive them in toursville and Williamsport, many, many times. And like, coming in places I can’t even pronounce the right way, lucky enough. Yeah, I know. I know. But well, said you want to do baseball or football, like, what’s whatever you want, man, what’s on your mind? I mean, like you want to do Lamar, what’s on your mind.

Mark Mussina  04:59

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You. Well, well, I’ll say this. I was just thinking this before we went on like, I don’t say the NFL needed this because, but when you look and we wake up here on December 9, and you know, you’re looking at Kansas City’s not going to make the playoffs. At least it looks that way.

Nestor Aparicio  05:23

Lamar Jackson might not make the playoffs. Who Lamar Jackson might not make the playx.

Mark Mussina  05:28

I mean, one of the Ravens might not be and you’re looking at who like, is Denver really good? Is New England really good? Is Jacksonville good? Like, what about are the bears? Can the bear? What Seattle? And it’s such a crazy like, yeah, there’s Josh Allen, and he’s still, but he’s a wild card. He they’re gonna be a wild card. And it has been so turned on its head. And I think, you know, from the AFC world that, you know, it was just, it was just my homes, and Andy Reid and they were going to be there. And it just, kind of, I think the Chiefs have become a little bit of like Duke basketball. They do it, right? They have lovable players. You know, nobody’s out, you know, you know, getting arrested or breaking laws, and Andy Reid’s doing commercials. Now, who would have ever thought Andy Reid would be doing commercials, but they’ve been so good, and so, right, we’re sick of them, and we just want to see somebody else.

Nestor Aparicio  06:35

We got there with the 40 Niners, we got there with the Patriots, we got there with the bulls. We you know, like,

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Mark Mussina  06:40

exactly all of those teams, you’re just, yeah, we’ve done it right. And, you know, it’s funny that people always they say they have their moral high ground, and then they hate Duke basketball. Like, why do you hate Duke? Like, they do it, right? They have kids that are now that they have a lot of one and Donners now, but these kids, you can tell they can all read. They all have graduate, you know, they and they graduated high school, and they and they play the game, right? And they play the game well, but we get sick of them because we got bored with them. So I think Kansas City was that in the NFL, and then the whole Taylor Swift thing was a lot of fun for a while. But, you know, they they need some new blood. And for Kansas City, who would have ever thought they would miss the whole playoffs and they might. So it’s, it’s really, really been fun, I think. And, and I don’t think people still don’t even know what to make of it. You know, New England or Denver, they could have a they could have a buy in the first round, and home field all the way through. And, you know, half of American football fans, Die Hard football fans, and be gone like, yeah, they’re not that good, and they might be right.

Nestor Aparicio  07:46

Who knows? You know, I’m a guy that reads books on the ownership and has attended the owners meetings, and I’m into their putting, in a big way, you know, into the revenue and how they’re doing it, and my whole entrepreneurial spirit of all of this stuff. And I get questioned a lot of things about the ravens, and I have, and I will continue to do that in regard to leadership and honesty and integrity and where it is and all that. And obviously I’ve made a living here, sadly, being the pulpit bitch space for the Orioles being awful and awfully run and also in baseball. And this is where you and I, I don’t need to tell you we you know, it’s where we come from, you and me and your brother. I mean, your brother left here because it was a disaster, and they didn’t have the money to really compete, because they it begat its own disaster. They didn’t have money because they were designed. It started okay, and they destroyed it. I mean, over 30 years, and so the baseball thing here hasn’t been great from an ownership perspective, the football things perceived as being great until you peel back the onion about how the organization has treated women, the Ray Rice scenario, the Justin Tucker scenario, just the fact that I don’t have a press pass anymore, and nobody in the world knows why, and they’re asking me instead of Chad steel, so I look At the bar being lower, but you’re a Cowboys fan. And the one thing you always said to me about your brother, and you’re on the record with this about when he went to the Yankees, was like, you can hate George, hate his kids, hate this, hate that, but like, they’re trying really hard, and they’re and there’s nothing that’s not first class because they have the money to make it for they don’t sit around in hem and Hall about what they’re going to do and they they go get players they do and make you say that about the Dodgers too, to some degree, but your cowboys are bashadi’s North Star, right? I mean, he took Dick Cass to be his president because Dick Cass was Jerry’s fixer in the 90s, with all the deals and all the Pepsi versus coke and all the I’m going to create a new way and all these years later, you’re a Cowboys fan, my buddy, Dave Muir, anybody else out there that loves the Cowboys? They’re a bit of a punchline, right for the Have you ever been to the thing that they built down there? Luke and I went to that training facility. Believe, dude, it’s unbelievable. I mean, and it’s bloated, and they are like Trump, sort of this incarnation of blotation, of what you would make fun of, and saying they have all of this, all of that, all of that, and a nude ring finger. And if they don’t get that, they’ll just buy a trophy and put it on the thing and say, We want something, because the Cowboys to me, but they are what everyone chases, like Disney in the entertainment space. They’re all chasing the Cowboys, because the Cowboys, we do it right down here we got, you know, and even the Yankees haven’t won anything in a long time. It is a fascinating thing of what we want from Franchise ownerships in small town, Baltimore or big league, you know, NFL or New York or wherever it is, but, but you’re one of the smartest people I know, and you’re still a Cowboys fan, and I rectifying it, making it all make sense when they’re dealing Micah Parsons The day before the season, and the fact that they haven’t won a playoff game since whenever, And the Steelers fans are all up in arms and yelling about Tomlin people yelling about horrible we’re all spoiled. You’re a Cowboys fan, dude. You ain’t spoiled. You know, I know that much

Mark Mussina  11:11

well, I’m one of the guys that I actually like the Parsons trade, depending on what we get in return, because, you know, like they weren’t winning with him and their run defense in his four years was there that he was there was in the lower half of the league. And, you know, he he’s a great player. It takes me back to the Herschel Walker trade, like he’s great player, but we’re not winning with him. So can we get a collection of things that help us get better as a roster? But you you can tell, like, what when it gets down? And I learned this, you know, in real estate, when I was the one boss, I had said, when you get down with your client, your clients got all these things. They’re talking about trips and paying off credit cards and housing. And you’re like, Well, what is your goal? What is your number one goal? And you can tell Jerry Jones’s number one goal is to be like the show. Jerry loves to be part of the show. If you would have told Jerry you can win five Super Bowls over your era, but you have to stay in the background, you know. And Bob Kraft doesn’t totally, I mean, no owner stays totally in the background, even when they’re successful. But like, look at Kansas City’s owner. He just like, you know, he, you see Andy Reid doing cars. You see it, and you know, Jerry wants to be the show. And you know, because of that, you know that that is his number one goal. And he’ll tell you winning is but it’s not like he liked to win, and everyone would like to win, but that it’s one of the other things you see. You see it in sports. You see it in life. You see it in like, like, when you sit down with like, a restaurant owner, what do you do you want to have the best food? Or do you want people walking into your restaurant, telling you how cool it is, so you can shake hands and because grind, where are you grinding? Are you grinding in the kitchen? Are you grinding over the ingredients? Are you grinding over the ordering and the and the budgeting and the payroll? Or are you grinding over what do I wear, that I look good? Who do I invite, and those it’s just, where is your number one focus? And the Cowboys, number one focus is not on the quality. Now it’s amazingly. They’ve done enough to stay good, but and they’ve even had advantages, like, when you go to roll this back to the ravens, the best thing that has happened to the Baltimore Ravens, you know, other than that, they’ve drafted some home, absolute home runs, from Ogden to Lewis to Lamar, you know, whatever. But the whole state of Ohio, with what Cincinnati, the mess that they’ve been in Cleveland, the perennial mess that they’ve been has made their division really easy. Well, you look at the Cowboys, what the Giants have been for the most part of a while, and what the red or Washington, whatever they’re called now, has been, you know, it’s just been the Eagles and and the Cowboys can’t get over the hump. So I don’t know, though there’s a lot when you look, when you talk about historically, you look at the time when the Niners were great, their division stunk. When the Patriots were great, their division stunk. So there’s a lot of you look at what buffalo could have been on a Super Bowl level, but they happen to be great the same time, mahomes and Andy Reid were great and they so you know, timing in life, as we all know, matters and well, this is

Nestor Aparicio  14:34

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Jacksonville, in Chicago, and some of these long suffering fan bases. I mean, even the chargers, you know, this week say, Well, maybe we’ll be in the championship game this year. Jacksonville has been there a couple times. Bears been to Super Bowls, but, but the struggling, nobody’s struggling more than the Cowboys, and nobody’s made more money than the Cowboys, and I don’t know about that.

Mark Mussina  14:58

I mean, we’re, we’ve been in the playoff what? Here, we’re 500 team every year almost.

Nestor Aparicio  15:02

So they want to fire the coach over that. Who Steelers at 500 every year? Or, you know, so you hasn’t had a sub 500 year 20 years, right?

Mark Mussina  15:12

You’ll appreciate this. I’m in local Buffalo Wild Wings watching the Raven Steelers game. There’s four and a half minutes to go, and I’m sitting with a bunch of Steeler fans up here. I’ve I have a Baltimore friend here a season ticket, so he was at

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Nestor Aparicio  15:28

the game. Are there Ravens fans? Inventory? It’s a couple. There’s a couple. Is it Steelers eagles? Yeah, yeah. Buffalo jets, no. Giants, no, no. A little, but it’s Steelers, eagles. But you always said to me, it was always Yankees, like for your from baseball, yeah, not necessarily Phillies. It’s Yankees, Phillies, okay, Yankees Phillies, okay. But it’s

Mark Mussina  15:51

so I’m sitting there with these guys. It’s, you know, it’s a close game, four and a half minutes to go. And I said, What I’m really excited about is to see who loses, so I can go on Facebook and read how their coach is the dumbest person alive. That’s what I was excited about, because that’s It is incredible how Steeler fans think Mike Tomlin is the dumbest person on earth. I think it is incredible. How Ravens fans, you know, think you know John Harbaugh should have been fired. You know, 10 years ago, it is like you people don’t know we had Dave Campo as the head coach of the Dallas cow. Like Dave Campo, I read a thing, and I don’t know how good the Schottenheimer is now, but there was a list, preseason list that someone, some genius did online ranking the NFL coaches, and Schottenheimer was last. The Dallas Cowboys had the worst coach in the NFL, according to this now, as it turned out, that he was, I don’t know how he was worse than Brian Gable, but whatever. But it is, people get so spoiled, and we saw it here with Penn State football that you know good isn’t good enough, and I get it like making the playoffs and losing in the playoffs year after year after year is depressing. You know, what’s even more depressing? Don’t make the playoffs for a while. Be a Maryland football fan Exactly, exactly, and it’s I’m curious to see where the Steelers end up, because at the end of their that Roethlisberger was hiding so many fail. You know that the days of levion and Antonio Brown, I mean, these guys are, you know, Tony O’Brien’s one of the best five receivers in in NFL history. Now he’s a he’s a lunatic, and who knows what’s going on, but, like, it’s like, you you win with elite talent. That’s, that’s what these teams have, and, and, you know, you look at like the Steelers roster, and I was like, I don’t, I don’t understand why you think you’re good. And, and that’s the thing with the Ravens roster, especially offensively, the elite talent is one, and it’s the quarterback. I personally think, I think with the Eagles and the Ravens, their offenses are very ordinary, if the quarterback isn’t rushing for 60 yards a game, and I think the Eagles are trying to just keep hertz healthy. And I’m not buying that Lamar is really healthy yet. But these guys cannot stand in the pocket like Brady, like Rogers, like and win. I mean, they have Josh Allen couldn’t even do it. If Josh Allen doesn’t run, he’s not that. That’s what makes him great.

Nestor Aparicio  18:38

This is what when they had two minute offense, and why the two minute offense fell apart on them in the Steelers game. I have no confidence that Lamar Jackson, in this offense, can push the ball 80 yards down the field win a game with two minutes left to go and three timeouts. You know, just, I just, I don’t see it and feel it. I haven’t felt it in the way that I see it in John Elway. I see it week after week where these miracle Flacco could do it in good years, but it’s an ensemble cast, and when your line is no good, I mean, the ravens, both of their lines have gotten pushed around most of the year, especially after Matt abigay left. The pass rush is non existent. This is looking at like, like, this reminds me of old Dan Snyder team, right? Oh, I’m going to get Dion back there, and I’m going to get you know Bruce Smith over here, and I’m going to have all stars and, yeah, who’s going to protect your quarterback, who’s going to run the who’s going to who’s going to be blocking for Derek Henry, and who’s going to be giving time for D hop and these Hall of Famers to get the ball, and zay flowers and all of that. Mark Messina is our guest. He’s one of my favorite people to chat sports with. He is up in Pennsyltucky. I only get him on once or twice a year because he’s busy and doing things and probably writing more movies and books and stuff that he does, in addition to being the county commissioner up in up in PA you. Lamar. You think Lamar is going to win? I mean, you sound down on Lamar a little bit. He was always down on quarterbacks running into linebackers for this.

Mark Mussina  20:08

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I love Lamar. I hate the national abuse that he takes because, I mean, obviously in the playoffs, it hasn’t gone great. It reminds me of like is Andy Reid was like that in Philadelphia. Yeah, he’s good coach, but he can’t win. And fortunately, Andy Reid as a coach, you get to do it for 30 years. He did, and he got to Kansas City on a sudden, he won. And now nobody says that anymore. You know, the lifespan of a quarterback isn’t that long, but I just, I don’t think Lamar is 100% healthy, and I think they’re trying to get through this. And if he can listen, if he gets in the playoffs, and Lamar is the the guy that you can’t catch in the open field, you can’t hit him in the open field, if he is that guy, again, the Ravens offense becomes dynamic like that, because he’s never done it with Hall of Fame receivers. He’s never done it with I mean, Henry’s good running back, but he, he’s, he’s not when you look at like a guy like Peyton Manning, and you start rattling off the talent that he had around him, you know, Lamar has never had that talent around him. Lamar has been the talent. I just don’t think he’s healthy and or he’s he’s trying to milk. And this is one of the other things from having, you know, lived with an athlete and been related athlete lots of times when you get hurt during the season, especially early in the season,

Nestor Aparicio  21:28

you wrote a very warmly piece about your brother, by the way, which is a great transition, because you you literally wrote this today or yesterday, right? I wrote it last night. Yeah. Okay, all right, yesterday was his birthday. Not everybody follows Mark Messina on Facebook,

Mark Mussina  21:42

they should and but like, you don’t get healthy. You don’t get really healthy until the season ends, unless, unless you’re, you know, you broke something, and you’re shut down for six weeks, then all your other stuff can heal, and by the time you’re broken wrist or whatever.

Nestor Aparicio  21:57

That’s why the thing’s crazy. The last two weeks coming back. Yeah, it’s really hard to do good again, right?

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Mark Mussina  22:04

I don’t think Lamar is going to be really good again until April, when it’s all said and done and he gets to heal up and and I think right now he just tried him, and the offense is trying to do the best they can where the guy is, like, you know he and he pulled it, you know, he had the rushing touchdown. He’ll get one or two a game, but he’s spending way more time in the pocket than I ever remember seeing him. And I just think he, I think he can do it in a burst here and there, but he can’t do it. He can’t have 10 rushes a game right now. I don’t think he can do it and survive, not the season.

Nestor Aparicio  22:40

Mark Messina is here, and I guess a good transition to baseball and the Orioles in the off season. And, you know, I always put the dipstick in with you. I don’t know last time I had you on, it probably was like spring or so. I don’t remember what I had you on last time. It’s fluid with the Orioles. And, you know, obviously the end of the year with with Rogers and radish and how they pitched and what the expectation is going to be next year of them, and what the expectation of the franchise is this week, at the owners meetings, or the winter meetings, or even in the next six or seven weeks, to what the Orioles are going to extract out of the free Agent market that somebody else wouldn’t be willing to pay more for, and where the level of needs are. And I don’t know if you were shocked by the Grayson rod, Rodriguez the old, but we kind of were, and it kind of speaks to me, to saying they didn’t like that kid if they’re going to get rid of him, for an outfielder, you know, for an outfielder rental for a year, that they didn’t believe in him, or they just thought this isn’t the spot for him.

Mark Mussina  23:43

But the Rodriguez one was interesting because you just, in knowing him, I somebody must have just decided, like, he’s just not going to stay healthy, and which is, like, that’s, that’s what makes this stuff hard, like you’re trying to make this prediction. I think one of the things that is that I think the and they’re in a tough spot, you know, they’re like the rays when, when they’re going up against the Yankees and the Red Sox and and the rays have kind of, you know, figured out how to compete a little better consistently than the Orioles have. But I think the Orioles have had some, some dumb bad luck. And, you know, when you look at when, when you look at the Chris Davis numbers, when Chris Davis was good, and then they give him that long term deal, and then just to see where he fell apart to like nobody saw that coming when he was I mean, his numbers were silly for a couple of years. And you know, then if you don’t sign that guy, and you let him go, and he keeps putting up those numbers somewhere else, then you’re like, Well,

Nestor Aparicio  24:48

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what do you then you hope you sign Nelson Cruz instead, and they didn’t, yeah,

Mark Mussina  24:52

well, but if you do sign him and he fall, and I think right now, when you’re looking with Adley, like, you know. It. Two years ago, he was the toast of Baltimore, and this guy’s going to Cooperstown. And, you know, since he’s come up, we never get swept in the pitching. And now all of a sudden, you’re wondering, like, I mean, I know he had some injury problems too, and those are the things. But now you’re wondering, Is he a even a good big league catcher right now, whereas before, like he’s going to be a 10 time all star,

Nestor Aparicio  25:25

they gave seven, $8 million to beside last summer just to do something I moose. I keep talking about this here, and I know this is not your lane, but it kind of is a little bit how the revenue goes and where the team is, and what these rich guys who have no affinity for ball, they’re they’re full of men, or Rubenstein and Eric Eddie’s already made a bobblehead of himself and showing himself at press conferences. And Elias is arrogant. I’m going to go see Katie Griggs speak on Elvis’s birthday for the connects group. I paid 100 bucks to hear her say basically nothing last month at an event, and I’m seeing the way the money would be tied to the payroll, because that’s the next thing that comes down the pike from any ownership group. Hey, you got to buy the tickets if you want to spend the money. And we’re building the bird cage bird we’re throwing the Jim Henneman press box. We’ve destroyed that, and we’re going to do the bird cage in there, and we’re going to charge everybody $1,000 to come eat meat and drink free beer. That’s not free behind home plate, and everybody’s going to want to come. I mean it, it’s corporately run, which I go back to everybody’s chasing Jerry Jones, right? They’re not about being a local organization. They’re about Jerry and we’re going to make Pepsi and Coke pot over us. And that’s been the oral mentality forever. And it is amazing to me that John Angelos is off counting like your brother got rich. He did nice playing baseball. You can look up his number, John Angelos is off counting $1.8 billion and these guys pocketed it, funded it, and now they need something to pay for it. And they’re in a division where they thought the Yankees and Red Sox were big boys, and Toronto just put a country on its back, and now they’re going to be in the way. Whether you like the Dylan C steel or not. That’s either way. They’re going to have that kind of coin. You’re not just in it against the Yankees and Red Sox. There’s another third party in the division that’s going to spend more money than you are by one, 2.8 I don’t know. I mean, how much money are they going to spend? And what difference does it make? And every time I talk to the smart baseball guys like you and then the nerds like Luke, it’s, well, they don’t have to spend a lot. They need to spend wisely. They can’t afford to make mistakes around the edges. They can’t afford to have a Chris Davis deal. They can’t afford the deal Grayson Rodriguez off and have him be Jake arieta Two years from now, I’ll tell you that they can’t afford that because they don’t the money for that. So I’m trying to figure out what they are in the way that these two guys put all their money up to get in here, the fans all went away. Moose, I can’t begin to tell you how pissed off the fans are about the 13 game plan and like, they’re blocking old school fans on Twitter for just being like, WTF, you know, like, they have no awareness of their brand in the marketplace at all, as the Ravens sort of dissipate and fall apart and there’s money here and they’re gonna tie at some point, attendance, revenue, media, where’s your money? Where’s your subscriptions? Are you subscribing to our new mass and whatever it’s going to be. And I’m trying to figure out the business model. I’m trying to figure out what these guys think they have in the Baltimore Orioles, where all this money’s coming from, that’s going to fund gunner Henderson’s three, $50 million dollar deal, or who, whatever the next thing they’re going to do, or a picture they’re going to sell, whatever they’re going to do, but chicken egg, winning, money, money winning. And then there’s just, do they even know what they’re doing? Because they’re going to have to do it a lot better. There’s their knife’s going to be a lot sharper than the Yankees, the Red Sox of the Blue Jays, on where they spend their money, and decisions they make that are going to greatly affect the next 234, years of where they are. This was supposed to be the good time, right? Low salary, high ceiling on all these young guys, and none of them, Gunner Henderson, maybe none of them have turned the dial their last place team. That’s what they’re selling in this community.

Mark Mussina  29:23

Well, that, I mean, there’s a call. And another thing that, when you’re talking about attendance, and I talked about the bad luck that I think the organization has hit, no fault of their own, what covid did like when I remember back in the 90s, when you know how many people worked in downtown Baltimore, and you’re like, Hey, we got tickets, and you walk over and what covid did, and the working at home model now, and the working remotely, and what it has done to attendance

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Nestor Aparicio  29:51

power, right? Literally, right. Yeah.

Mark Mussina  29:53

So it’s and that’s something that you would have never thought, you know, in that 20 years. Go 30 years ago that like, hey, a lot of these offices are gonna be empty. And because, you know, so all these business guys who are like, yeah, work till six. We’ll get a ticket, we’ll walk over, because that happens. It happened all the time. It happened all the time. Yeah, I mean, player development is a huge thing for team like the Orioles, player development, scouting like you have to draft well, and when you get these kids, I don’t know, one of the things that nobody ever talks about in baseball is like the teaching of these kids. Who is teaching how good are the teachers? Because one of the things to go way back to Mike. When Mike was at triple A his pitching coach was Dick Bosman, who ended up being a big league pitching coach for 100 years, and I know that he had an issue with out of the stretch. He was too slow. And Bosman sat him down and they talked about, and he’s like, these are what you have to and he came up with a quicker stretch. So runners just didn’t, because in college, you know, it was just different. And I don’t, I couldn’t name you a coach in the orders minor league system, but there are these kids. You know, when you look at at any good pro, you look at a good high school athletic program. They have good coaches down at the lower levels who are getting the kids, who are developing and, and even, you know, dealing with the off the field stuff. And you know what it’s like to be a 19 year old kid away from home and, and, and those are, those are things that are vital, and I think any successful organization needs that and and especially when you’re you know the rays or the Orioles or the Royals or or teams like that, that’s where a lot of your emphasis needs to go. You need to have great at that. You need a great minor league pitching coaches, and it can’t be the old boys club that baseball has been for 1000 years. Yeah, I

Nestor Aparicio  32:04

certainly saw that, like when Davey Johnson came in. I mean, Pat Dobson was not Ray Miller, yeah, it just wasn’t, you know, totally different, right? I mean, your brother worked for both of them, I guess. And now I’m thinking about it, yes, sometimes I forget who I’m talking to. Mark machine is here, brother to the stars, brother the Hall of Famer Mike masinis to talk in baseball with you. He’s like, I don’t why we always leave with football when you’re such a baseball guy, I don’t know, but you’ve forgotten more about baseball than maybe anybody I know, outside your brothers so but, but the Orioles are in a weird spot here right now. This is a these new guys coming in, putting all this money in, and maybe not even being able to buy the players. I started to hear stuff two weeks ago moose that made me think Angelo’s for the first time in a long time, which when, like, we’re in on him, we’re in on to share a we’re in on him, we’re in on Messina, too too much money. You know, that’s what he said about your brother, which is, like, effing insane. 25 years later, and he’s been dead two years, three years, whatever it’s been. But, like, I just can’t imagine it being a lot different for these guys. These guys are a little in over their head. They don’t know anything about baseball this era. Getty guy is a fan and like, bragging on the dace about, you know, winning his fantasy league. I’m like, oh, you know, like, but they they said they’re going to spend money. And the fans that are here are sort of, you know, hey, do something to get us excited. I don’t know that that’s going to make anybody buy season ticket book. I don’t know even what their business plan is. And then moose, all of this drudgery that I can take us through, going into the year and all that. Then there’s the labor dispute, I mean, and I’ll just throw that you and I go back to Lords of the Realm, and your brother being a player rep, and Jimmy Poole, the late, great Jimmy pool nothing’s changed there. I mean, we’re sitting here and we’re talking about next year trying to have enthusiasm about a last place team, new ownership, failing prospects, just all of that. And then there’s, well, these guys just bought the team. I wonder if they even knew that they did the research on the labor problems in this sport for 40 years, because I’m convinced Angelo spot the team. What do you mean? We’ll just beat their ass there? Yeah. Oh, they are the union. I’m a union. Well, we’ll beat the owner’s asses. And that’s kind of pretty much how it went 30 years ago, right?

Mark Mussina  34:21

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Well, I mean, one thing, and I know the the auras did look like they were set up better two years ago than they look now. Holiday.

Nestor Aparicio  34:30

I can’t blame Peter for that, even though I just did a pretty good Peter that makes you laugh.

Mark Mussina  34:34

Well, I mean, holiday still just a kid like, let’s like, what’s he doing when he’s 2520, I mean, you there are guys. Curt Schilling is a great example. Curt Schilling was not, you know, was not turning heads at 22 but it takes some of these guys a little while to figure it out. And this kid got thrown out there when he was super young.

Nestor Aparicio  34:55

So I think holidays fine. I mean, and his dad. Dad was the one who changed his stance last year. So to your point, how good is my coaching when my dad’s changing my well, you know, but their brother changed you in the stretch, you’d have to listen to him. I think

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Mark Mussina  35:12

there, there are, it’s just weird though, there are things to be said. I mean, I had conversations with Mike during his his career where you know just about things, about pitch selection, because I’m watching it harder, because the pitching coach has 13 guys on the staff, and you’re just like, I had one guy on the staff. I heard, I heard a famous story. Well, I it was famous to me. It’s by probably no one else ever heard of Keith Hernandez was talking, and he was in a slump. And I don’t remember if he was a met or a cardinal during this time. And you know, for those of us who are old enough to remember, Keith Hernandez has a met and a cardinal Google, and he

Nestor Aparicio  35:53

said, some people just remember Seinfeld, but that’s enough.

Mark Mussina  35:58

So he he’s in a slump, and his dad calls him, and his dad’s no big league player, whatever. And he’s like, listen, and this is how I remember the Keith Hernandez was number 17. And I just I remember because he said, and Keith Hernandez left handed hitter, and his dad said to him, when you’re going well, and you kind of roll into your swing, I can see a little bit of the one on your back from, you know, the I can always see the seven, but when you’re going, well, I can see a little bit of the one. I can’t see the one right now, and Hernandez is like, I get it, and I sit back. And it was just that little thing from his dad, who’s been watching, who’s watching about more than anyone else. And so there are those things, and

Nestor Aparicio  36:48

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your brother get to the Hall of Fame. This is your chance. Come on. Now, are you going to put that on Bosman, that tweak

Mark Mussina  36:56

there were, though, there are those little things that I’m not surprised. Holidays dad, you know, said something that helped. I’m I’m not surprised. And his dad does have a little bit of a resume of his own.

Nestor Aparicio  37:09

By the way, your kid was a pitcher, right? Yeah, did he listen to your brother or you,

Mark Mussina  37:16

um, me, he it

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Nestor Aparicio  37:18

was who famously told me you couldn’t throw a party.

Mark Mussina  37:23

It was just different. Ah, once upon a time that that’s a whole fascinating dynamic, um, because, because my kid was not, uh, my kid looked way more like Jamie Moyers kid. He’s left handed. He was a soft tosser, you know, change up, curve ball, you know, a slopper, but, and when he figured it out, like, because a lot of times Mike was in the dugout, Mike’s calling his pitches, and it wasn’t always like, that’s not what I want to call, and I’m shaking him off, and he’s given the same

Nestor Aparicio  37:55

your kid, no, you

Mark Mussina  37:58

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on the high school team, Mike coaches In Little League, and all that stuff I did, but in a high

Nestor Aparicio  38:03

school your brother, so it was, this is complicated. He’s left handed. Wow. This is your next movie, moose. This is your next book here, man,

Mark Mussina  38:13

he was way more, you know, he was way more Jimmy key than he was Mike Messina. And it was, it was, it was interesting. It did

Nestor Aparicio  38:22

Porter’s kid. I wonder about joey Porter’s kid. He plays different

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Mark Mussina  38:29

position, you know, different position, but no, but it is, I mean, it’s and baseball’s so hard and like, the difference between success and failure. You see guys like, I mean, some of it, you get the Hall of Famers that are good every year. And then you get a guy like Melvin Mora, who hit 361 year and never repeat. You know, you get a guy like Brady Anderson who had 50 home runs one year, although, I mean, the ball was a little lively in 96 and the stats will show up, but it, there’s, there’s, I don’t know, and, and you know that did, did Adley brushman have that right out of the gate, and then he’s, is he ever going to get it back? You know, though, those are the crazy things that you know, and I don’t know if it’s just bad luck, if it’s just because baseball is hard, if it’s, you know, the coaching and the player development, I don’t know. I will say one thing, I really, I thought the general manager drafted, you know, that, like, two years ago, they the Orioles look like they were, they were ready, and as we’ve talked about, some of the guys didn’t pan out. I thought it was an interesting hire at the beginning, because he comes from Houston, and I know Houston had won, but for those of us who know a little bit about the United States, Houston is, like the fourth biggest city in the it is a huge market, and even though, historically, baseball wise, it hadn’t done all that well. It is a huge market. Like, I would have thought the Orioles would have gone more of a money ball. Like, how’s Tampa doing it? You know what Oakland used to be doing and what they’ve struggled with now? You know the Kansas cities of the world? It’s like,

Nestor Aparicio  40:17

always says that their north star should be the st Louis Cardinals. And I’m like, that’s that’s a nice thought, but they play with the pirates and these other slugs. They do. But you’re, I also know you’re talking to the cowboys and the giants, and they’re, you’re in the division with the big boys, when you’re in with the with the Yankees and and certainly in this sport where the money’s two to four to five to six to eight to one, and it will be once the new media deal gets done and all of that the Yankees are there, all those teams are always going to outspend you, so you need to be really, really shrewd at the player development level, because you’re never going to have the money.

Mark Mussina  40:51

And I think St Louis the unfair thing. St Louis for a long time, until the the Dodgers and the and the Giants went west. St Louis was the furthest West team. And I’d heard, and I don’t know if that was they had the largest radio

Nestor Aparicio  41:06

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network, Mo X, they did, yeah.

Mark Mussina  41:09

So St Louis has a fan has a regional fan base that is all over the Midwest. And when you

Nestor Aparicio  41:16

90 year old people that were around probably in the same way that the Cubs and the Braves picked people up our age in Albuquerque, because they didn’t have it, right? I mean, they were on television, and maybe even the Mets in or for a little while, but the Braves specifically, right? I mean, the Braves had 25 years of being available everywhere as a national team,

Mark Mussina  41:35

right, right? And so the Orioles are little more because they got Philadelphia right up the road. I mean DC,

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Nestor Aparicio  41:42

I mean that changed in your brother since your brother’s era. And that really was Peter. Didn’t get much right, but he said that if they split the markets, it would be difficult, and certainly more difficult for Baltimore, which is why his family took all the extra money, and now none of it matters. They got all the money, the billion eights there, and we’re now a tiny market, like, that’s really the truth, that is, that’s the math.

Mark Mussina  42:05

He was absolutely right with that. It is hard. And the, you know, the Phillies are trying again. The Phillies have become good again.

Nestor Aparicio  42:14

I know back to they’re, they’re a they’re way different than what the pirates or even winning teams are. I mean, the Phillies do real well, yes,

Mark Mussina  42:24

8

and they have, Philadelphia is a fanatical fan base, but Philadelphia is huge. People don’t realize how big. You know, when people think, oh, there’s two professional sports teams in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is like, five times as big as Pittsburgh as population. It’s not even close, yeah. So you just, you just don’t realize this, and you’re like, Yeah, Dallas is in Texas. Houston’s in Texas.

Nestor Aparicio  42:48

That’s all the movie you’re making the case right now. And I don’t know where your brother is on this, I’d love to talk to him and all the old timers about it, like the case being made now is, look at football, look at hockey, all the things you and I argued about back in the 90s, back when your brother was off the market, 94 time I met you. I knew you before then. So like arguing about rich guys and really rich guys and billionaire owners. I mean, now we’re in a different era of how much money they have and they could sustain, but also where the revenue is coming from. And every smart person I talked to, I have not heard Rob Manfred or any, certainly not Rubinstein. Any of these people speak in a way that you, your brother me would say, Oh, I get your business model. It’s cable television, ticket sales, franchise development, signs in the building, patches on the jerseys. I don’t know, but like, their distribution model for media is wildly broken. Their business models wildly broken when the Dodgers and Yankees have gobs of money and nobody else does. And one of the real fundamental reasons NFL, NBA and NHL have made it like this is is because the Packers can win too, and the Florida Panthers can win the Stanley Cup, and so can the Winnipeg Jats and Canada’s different in hockey. Can Winnipeg win? Well, the Canada money thing’s really problematic in that sport, in the same way that Towson State can’t play football with Alabama so and nor would you expect them to, but somehow you expect the Tampa raising the Pittsburgh Pirates to keep up with the Yankees and the Dodgers. But you also get Adam and Eve, though, right? That’s their garden of Eden. Is they? Next year, they’re going to go to war about it again, and they’re going to say, take a salary cap. And the players are going to say, Absolutely not on the grave of Marvin Miller. I’m not doing that. And the salary floor was always the real issue is how much money is in the industry and how that could be divided to make make a better game, make it a better game. And nobody’s thinking about that in college sports

Mark Mussina  44:53

at all. I mean, we just had, you know, a three day debate about Notre Dame and should they’ve gotten in and. You know, Miami should they’ve got, you know, you look at How’s Maryland football, complete with Ohio State and Michigan, and no one cares there either. They don’t have equal money, equal access,

Nestor Aparicio  45:10

equal facilities. Never will and never will, right?

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Mark Mussina  45:14

And it’s still in college football is like you. But then you get the Indians of the world, who, they figured it out and, and it’s always that, you know, Texas, a and m now, again, has figured it out. And there’s always that,

Nestor Aparicio  45:33

find a rich guy with filthy money and throw it at you, and you get to win, right?

Mark Mussina  45:37

That’s, that’s not how Indiana did it, though. That’s now that they’ve won, but there’s always the opportunity like nobody and you know, we all could have got rich betting that Toronto would have got to the World Series. And I saw the odds like even in July, nobody believed in Toronto and it and that’s still the beauty of sports, when you get the right people and the right people healthy and the right people and the oils have had chances, and it’s they just, they haven’t got, they haven’t got lucky when they got there, and they haven’t got the breaks. But I really, I don’t, I think, I mean, clearly, every organization makes some bad decisions. But I think the snake bit, if you would have said, If we would have sat here two years ago and said, What do you think of Adley rushman? There’s no one in Baltimore. There’s no one in baseball that would have said, add a couple years, they’ll be decent. Maybe like and and when you are an organization like, like, if that would have happened to Vladimir Guerrero, where are the Blue Jays? If that would have happened to like, the guys they were really counting on, you know, where? But you have to, you have to get you the guys that are supposed to be good, have to be good, and the guys who you have to get lucky on their catcher. And I can’t remember the guy who’s five, five from Mexico. I can’t think of his name. You know, nobody knew. Love that guy. You know, Cal Raleigh, like they got. I mean, I know he’s good college player, but nobody knew what. And and, and you even look at like Seattle, like Julio Rodriguez came out as a rookie and was this. And for two years, Julio Rodriguez wasn’t very good. And then now he got it back again, and he went 3030, and he but you know that. So it’s, it’s just it’s really, really hard. And because the Orioles, because of where they are with the Yankees, Red Sox, they have such little margin for error. But I would just keep looking at Tampa Bay, because somehow they always figure out a way to compete. And you come take Blake Snell away from they still figure out a way to compete. And, and that should be the model that the Orioles, if the Orioles could emulate those guys. And, you know, but yet they it is rough. It is a rough place to be. And, and I don’t know how many great, successful managers, general managers like you got to find the up and comers like they did in at Indiana football, because there’s no old, retired guy who’s who’s taken on that job, because it’s just so daunting.

Nestor Aparicio  48:22

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Alejandro Kirk, by the way, yes,

Mark Mussina  48:25

what a favorite, what a great story. He is. And I, I remember watch because, you know, how much have you seen the Blue Jays you get into the playoffs. You’re like, why is this guy hitting fifth? How good can their lineup be if this squatty little catchers hitting fifth? And then you watch like, oh, that’s why, right?

Nestor Aparicio  48:43

Yeah, absolutely. Mark messin is here. He’ll always be in my hall of fame as well. County Commissioner up in PA. Always good to visit with you. Man, why we even talk about like Tom Kiefer doing m3 we haven’t talked any music

Mark Mussina  48:57

we I thought you were gonna make fun of my stealing Dan comment, but, you know, I was already,

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Nestor Aparicio  49:02

dude, you, you missed the mark on some music. That’s all I’m going to say. Like you, I don’t being from a small town really hindered your college rock, you know, sensibilities of the late 80s. That’s all.

Mark Mussina  49:15

There are the great bands that everyone had. You know, you’re, I’m a rock and roll guy through and through. I do not get Steely Dan. I just, I don’t, I don’t get, I heard you say, perfect for Sunday morning, I guess, like, if you play it on Saturday night, you’re not

Nestor Aparicio  49:31

like jazz music or just like, because you like country and I don’t, so that there’s a delineator that you’re in a lane that I’m not in.

Mark Mussina  49:39

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There’s some good country music. There is very some good, good country stuff.

Nestor Aparicio  49:44

Name something that you think is really good

Mark Mussina  49:47

country, yeah. Oh, Garth Brooks head,

Nestor Aparicio  49:50

okay, but that’s 30 years ago. I’m talking about now. Oh, wow, I don’t know you’re not, you’re not going to Morgan Wallen and doing one of those. You’re not doing any of that. Right? I will tell you this. Do you know the.

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Mark Mussina  50:00

Song, 98 Braves. No, you when you’re done with me, you go Google.

Nestor Aparicio  50:06

98 I wanted you to give me a country song. Now I don’t want you to give me one, because

Mark Mussina  50:10

no, you will. It is it is my favorite country song of all time, because it’s about, I think it. I think it’s Morgan.

Nestor Aparicio  50:20

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Wall, okay, go ahead. What is it? 9898

Mark Mussina  50:22

Braves. It’s about the Atlanta Braves in 1998

Nestor Aparicio  50:25

oh, it is by Morgan Wallen. Oh, so it’s a baseball song. Okay, you will

Mark Mussina  50:29

love it. It is. It’s so good. And you have to be old, like, I’m sure kids nowadays you like, they love Morgan wall and they’re like, what’s this song? You will, you’ll listen to it one time, and you’ll love it.

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Nestor Aparicio  50:40

I remember your brother getting a hit off the 97 Braves, first time he batted. So I remember that pretty good, right? He had

Mark Mussina  50:45

a double off John Smoltz. His one career extra base hit was off a Hall of Famer, first

Nestor Aparicio  50:50

time he batted to right? Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t remember that,

Mark Mussina  50:55

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but he hit it over left fielder.

Nestor Aparicio  50:56

Remember everything else about your brother’s career? That’s fine. You remember who’s graphic memory about the Dallas Cowboys. Mark Messina is here. He is still up in Pennsylvania, doing doing the good work. Merry Christmas to you. Happy holidays to you. To your kids, your brother, your mom, dad, everybody up there, and the Little League team and all that stuff. I miss you, man. Let’s go get a concert together. All right, absolutely. I think Lancaster’s halfway. He is. Mark Messina. I’m out doing the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by the Maryland lottery. I have Raven scratch offs again. We also going to do the candy cane scratch offs, which they’re going to make my bag smell like peppermints by the time I get the cost this next week. I am Nestor. We are W N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive.