Telling the story of the power, money and growth of the modern NFL

No one knows more about the business of the National Football League than longtime sports business insider Ken Belson of The New York Times, whose new book “Every Day is Sunday” goes behind the power and money of the league to discuss the decisions, threats, machinations and leadership of Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft in great detail. Learn about the monster…

Nestor Aparicio discusses Ken Belson’s new book “Every Day is Sunday,” which explores the NFL’s rise to cultural and economic dominance through the lens of Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, and Roger Goodell. Belson, a longtime sports business reporter for the New York Times, spent a decade researching the league’s transformation. The book delves into the NFL’s financial strategies, including private equity investments and the impact of crises like Ray Rice and Colin Kaepernick. Aparicio reflects on the NFL’s influence, the lack of oversight, and the potential risks from gambling. The conversation also touches on the league’s global expansion and the role of individual owners.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Promote the book “Every Day is Sunday” by Ken Belson.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Follow up with Mark Davis about the Raiders’ move to Las Vegas and the team’s rapid rise in revenue.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Arrange to have Ken Belson back on the show before Christmas to further discuss the book.

Nestor Aparicio’s Introduction and Upcoming Events

• Nestor Aparicio introduces the show, WNST 1570, and mentions the Maryland crab cake tour, including dates at Acosta’s, Pizza John’s, and State Fair in Catonsville.
• Nestor talks about the Maryland lottery Raven scratch-offs and his luck with them during a bye week.
• He sets the stage for discussing Ken Belson’s new book, “Every Day is Sunday,” which focuses on the NFL’s cultural and economic power.

Ken Belson’s Background and Book Overview

• Nestor Aparicio introduces Ken Belson, a longtime sports business reporter for the New York Times, now in the business section.
• Ken Belson explains that the book took about 10 years to write, covering the NFL since 2013, with a focus on how the league became a cultural and economic juggernaut.
• The book zeroes in on Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, and Roger Goodell, the three main characters, and their roles in the NFL’s success.
• Ken mentions the extensive research involved, including time spent with owners, the union, networks, and fans, and the vast amount of material that didn’t make it into the newspaper.

Nestor Aparicio’s Personal History and NFL Insights

• Nestor Aparicio shares his personal history with the NFL, starting in 1984 with the Baltimore News American and the Orioles winning the World Series.
• He discusses the sordid history of Baltimore sports, including the Colts leaving and the efforts to bring a football team back.
• Nestor mentions the lack of accountability in the NFL, particularly with John Harbaugh and Steve Bisciotti, and the lack of oversight, even in gambling.
• He compares the NFL to other top businesses in the U.S., emphasizing its size and influence.

The NFL as a Business and Its Leadership

• Ken Belson describes the NFL as a “Fortune 100 company masquerading as a football league,” with Roger Goodell aiming to position the NFL alongside Disney and the Vatican.
• The NFL’s strategy involves leveraging public money for stadiums and using marketing to change narratives during crises.
• Ken shares anecdotes about the NFL’s history, including Art Modell’s financial struggles and the NFL’s involvement in his move to Baltimore.
• He discusses the NFL’s response to crises, such as the Ray Rice incident and the Brian Flores case, and how the league uses marketing to shift public perception.

The Role of Private Equity and the Future of the NFL

• Ken Belson talks about the NFL’s acceptance of private equity investments, with Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft leading the way.
• He describes a scene where Jones and Kraft discussed the potential for private equity investments with no voting rights, highlighting the league’s financial savvy.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken discuss the potential impact of gambling on the NFL, with concerns about the integrity of the game and the league’s response to gambling scandals.
• They also touch on the NFL’s succession planning, with the next generation of owners already involved in league business.

The NFL’s Response to Social Issues and Public Perception

• Ken Belson explains how the NFL has dealt with social issues, such as Colin Kaepernick’s protest and the league’s response to Trump.
• He describes the NFL’s use of marketing and public relations to change the narrative and limit liability during crises.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken discuss the NFL’s relationship with billionaire owners and the influence of secondary businesses on team operations.
• They also talk about the NFL’s global expansion and the potential for new markets, such as Madrid, Frankfurt, London, and Tokyo.

The NFL’s Financial Success and Future Challenges

• Ken Belson highlights the NFL’s financial success, with teams breaking even by the start of the season due to media revenue.
• He mentions Jim Irsay’s quote about the NFL’s ease of operation, comparing it to an auto-pilot 747.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken discuss the potential challenges facing the NFL, such as the 18th game and the league’s response to gambling.
• They also touch on the role of individual owners, such as Steve Bisciotti, and the potential for succession within NFL teams.

The NFL’s Global Reach and Future Growth

• Ken Belson discusses the NFL’s global reach and the potential for new markets, such as Madrid, Frankfurt, London, and Tokyo.
• He mentions the league’s success in Las Vegas and the potential for future expansion in the U.S.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken talk about the NFL’s response to social issues and the league’s efforts to maintain its public image.
• They also discuss the role of private equity in the NFL and the potential impact on team operations and league business.

The Role of Individual Owners and Team Dynamics

• Ken Belson explains the varying levels of involvement among NFL owners, with some heavily involved in league business and others less so.
• He mentions the next generation of owners, such as Arthur Blank’s son, Jeffrey Lurie’s son, and Jim Irsay’s daughter, who are already involved in team operations.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken discuss the challenges of following a founder, such as Al Davis, and the impact of new owners on team dynamics.
• They also touch on the potential for succession within NFL teams and the role of individual owners in shaping the league’s future.

The NFL’s Response to Social and Political Issues

• Ken Belson discusses the NFL’s response to social and political issues, such as Colin Kaepernick’s protest and the league’s relationship with Trump.
• He mentions the league’s use of marketing and public relations to change the narrative and limit liability during crises.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken talk about the NFL’s efforts to maintain its public image and the role of individual owners in shaping the league’s response to social issues.
• They also discuss the potential impact of gambling on the NFL and the league’s efforts to maintain the integrity of the game.

The NFL’s Financial Strategy and Future Plans

• Ken Belson explains the NFL’s financial strategy, including the acceptance of private equity investments and the league’s efforts to maintain financial stability.
• He mentions the league’s success in Las Vegas and the potential for future expansion in the U.S.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ken discuss the role of individual owners in shaping the league’s financial strategy and the potential challenges facing the NFL.
• They also touch on the potential for new markets and the league’s efforts to maintain its financial success.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

NFL leadership, Ken Belson, Every Day is Sunday, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, Roger Goodell, cultural juggernaut, economic power, private equity, gambling, social issues, public money, stadiums, media business, crises management.

SPEAKERS

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Ken Belson, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We call this Baltimore positive. We’re getting back out on the road with Maryland crab cake tour. I just put some dates together. We’re going to be Acosta’s next week. I got pizza John’s the week after that. We’re going to do a double the week of Cocos on November 5. We’re also going to be at State Fair in Catonsville, I will have Raven scratch offs been a much luckier batch than the backup quarterbacks have been around here during a bye week. I don’t want to give it all away, because I might wind up running this segment several times before Christmas or Father’s Day, because it is about a book and an author, and I’ve already started bookmarking pages about Steve bishati Every day is Sunday. Is the book. I wonder what had happened to Ken Belson, because right around when I lost my press pass, the first time, I haven’t found him, he was he was in the laboratory writing about, let’s see how Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft and Roger Goodell, three of the good ones, turn the NFL into a cultural and economic juggernaut. He is the longtime sports business reporter for the New York Times. He is now in the business section of the New York Times because the athletic kind of came in and took over, sort of like Liv did with golf. I’m not sure, but he has written a book. And I first things first, the book came. My wife looked at and she said, You got a book. She left it on my desk, and I’m like, this isn’t a book. Belson’s like, peeling back the onion. I bet there’s some blockbuster stuff in here. So I just got it day before yesterday. So welcome aboard. I know it’s all new and fresh, and I I want to give you all the oxygen in the world to talk about what I’m sure is a book that I’m going to

Ken Belson  01:37

want to read. Yeah, no. Thank you, Nestor, thanks always for having me on. I appreciate it. Yeah, this was, depending on where you start. This was about 10 years in the making. I’ve covered the NFL since 2013 and my editor, you know, told me at the time, I don’t care if you go to a game, you want to go to a game. Great, but really write about how they got to be an institution, this this big, sort of immovable media company that we’re now consumed with as a nation. And so that was the mandate. And I, you know, spent a lot of time around the owners, the union, the network. People been to stadiums, obviously, a lot of fans. It’s a really 360 view of the league. And as you know, you know, you can only put so much in the newspaper. There’s just I had notebooks and notebooks and material that never got used. So I had a bit of a running start with this book, but then I zeroed in on Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft, two most successful owners, business wise, and and Roger Goodell, who’s kind of their, you know, the guy who kind of orchestrates it. And, yeah, so that’s how the three, the three characters, got chosen, and how the book got written well.

Nestor Aparicio  02:42

And I love the first words, how, how, how did, how in the hell did this happen? So, you know, I come at this the hard way as a 57 year old that got into the sports business because I love sports. I love the Orioles. I I thought maybe one day we’ll get a football team back. And then it happened, right? So you’ve even peeled back. I learned a few things just fingering through the book in the index, just looking up modell and bishati, that you had some pieces in there of even bishati and Dan Snyder, which I featured on my Facebook this morning because it had the F bomb in it. But I go back to 84 I started working at the Baltimore news American with John Steadman, in January of 84 the Orioles just won the World Series. The Colts were eight weeks away from leaving. I was 15 years old, right? So that’s how far back into the newspaper I go. So Vito stilino And everybody at the Sun eminent domain. William Hudnut, trying to steal a team, trying to steal the Raiders, trying to steal the ramp, trying to do anything that Cardinals. Bill bib, well, Mr. Bidwell, bring us your team. We we hoard ourselves here in the 80s, Ken So and then we get the team. And now, 30 years in, I find out that there’s no accountability in the building here at all. I’ve written about that with a lot of words this week, and it really does come down to with me challenging John Harbaugh or Steve bashanti. They’re too big to fail. They, they literally, there is no oversight, not even on the gambling. There’s just no oversight. It’s, it’s, it’s larger than anything, which is maybe why they moved you out of the sports department. Said this thing here is like one of the top 15 businesses in our universe, right there with GE and you name any other big business America has ever had, it looks like football, but it writes like business, right? Yeah,

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Ken Belson  04:33

yeah. You know the NFL, as one executive told me, it’s, it’s a fortune 100 company that’s masquerading as a football league. You know, it’s a business. You know, there’s no denying it. I mean, obviously their main product is a game, but it’s a product. It’s, you know, Roger Goodell is a quote in there from one of his executives, who said, Roger’s not concerned with the NBA or major league baseball. He wants the NFL to be seen in the same light as. Disney and the Vatican, you know, Disney, family friendly media company with fingers in all pots, and then the Vatican, a cultural institution. That’s where he’s looking. He’s not looking at like just gaining fans. He wants. It’s a business, and he’s doing this at the behest of the owners. You brought up the sordid history of Baltimore sports, it really is, sadly, a poster child for for how these leagues treat cities. You know, it’s all about trying to get public money, the so called Public Private Partnership. This is a relatively new thing. Back in the old days, the owners built the stadiums. They did it on their own. Nobody went there with a handout. And then obviously you had the earth says, Bob or say, you know, fighting with the governor and the mayor and all that. And then the Mayflower trucks. And then, you know, this interesting, because you mentioned art modell, they build a stadium on spec, and they turn the tables. And art modell is not getting money from Cleveland, so he shows up. And it’s interesting. Art modell was was really financially in a lot of trouble. And this is one thing that had never been reported. It’s in that chapter. You know, he was so broke. This is before Steve Basti he was so broke. The NFL had to step in and force art modell to get a partner. And that was not reported because they were the NFL was trying to get a credit line for stadiums, and so if Morgan Stanley or Bank of America found out that one of the clubs was on life support, it could have screwed up the whole deal. So one of the lawyers involved in that told me that all communications were done over the phone. There were no letters typed up no correspondence between secretaries and owners because they didn’t want it to leak out. So yeah, art modell was, you know, he got the free gig to come over, and the Ravens fans probably thank him for it, but it didn’t really solve his financial problems, and that’s where Steve bashati came in. Well, certainly

Nestor Aparicio  06:59

changed my life. And we’re talking about 1995 96 I’ve talked about it so much at Viviano on last year, talking about how he got the scoop that art was moving the team here at that time. But let’s fast forward a little bit, because in a few years later, art sold off. The piece here to bishati. Bishati came in. I was very I mean, you, I probably met you two decades ago, or like that at owners meetings 2023, years ago, I started going to owners meetings and sensing how all of this works, seeing Mr. Benson and seeing, you know, everybody had to be called mister somebody, including Dan Snyder, which is an interesting snippet in your book. But there was the point where tagliabu was leaving, and taglibu famously said to us build a museum, all of that stuff that happened at the Rosemont horizon. When we didn’t get Charlotte, didn’t get Jacksonville, that was a mistake. And then Houston, Tennessee, Nashville, all the crazy things that happened in the mid 90s, the late 90s. But by then, things had settled down, and they were going to have a new commissioner. And I remember Dick Cass being one of the shortest short list guys. And I remember being in the middle of all that Dick, didn’t want to be the commissioner, at least if he did, he didn’t act like he did. He was frontline with Jerry, which is how he got here to begin, with Dixon OG and they made Goodell the commissioner at that time. And I think about what happened then, and I have Marty Conway on a lot talking about that big number, the billions of numbers that were promised by him, I guess his first time he got a contract. I guess he’s on his third or fourth now, whatever the number is for him, because it’s been about 20 years of Raj at this point. Could anybody have made this bigger? Or could anybody have screwed it up? Ken, because it is amazing how they’ve ridden the wave of Trump, of head injuries, of the movie out of Pittsburgh, all the awful stuff, lawsuits from the old players I had. I saw John Mackey’s wife a couple of weeks ago, Sylvia. So like I’ve been through all of this. It is. It’s uncanny how the Internet television going down, media going down, Trump coming in red, white and blue. How and how? With the military and the flag they’ve been and God and Thanksgiving and Christmas, all of that, and Yom Kippur for just all across the board, they’ll play anytime, anywhere, including Wednesdays at Pittsburgh during a plague, the plague, I didn’t even pray. I’m thinking all this stuff in 20 years, and all they do is get bigger no matter what. And I’m thinking, is that Goodell, is that the game? Is that shrewd management in your mind?

Ken Belson  09:27

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a thread throughout the book. And you mentioned those crisis. We didn’t mention Ray Rice, we didn’t mention Richie Cognito with bullying, Deflategate, there’s been a scandal du jour. I didn’t anticipate this when I started writing about the NFL, but I could write, you know, 100 hockey stories, and they wouldn’t get as many readers as one big NFL story. It just sucks the oxygen out of every argument or every debate, and it’s a lens through which we see social issues, including social protest. You mentioned. The President, the President just president, doesn’t go after hockey, no offense. I mean, he did take aim at LeBron and Steph Curry, but that was, that was a back.

Nestor Aparicio  10:09

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And he loves Gretzky. He loves Gretzky because Gretzky voted for all that. He’s Canadian. You can’t vote for him. I’m sorry, yeah,

Ken Belson  10:15

but, but, no, the in the NFL is a magnet for all this. And some of that’s been very deliberate, you know, but anyway, the thread in the book that I found interesting was, was really how they deal with crises. You know, the league is run by lawyers and marketing people. The first thing they do is limit liability, whether it’s settling a case, bringing a case, drawing a case out there, they actually have their backs to the wall and the Brian Flores case, you know, on the Rooney Rule, John Gruden actually has taken them to task as well, but, but often they just settle it and let it go away. Have just move the turn the page, and then you get the marketing. And they are expert at using their muscle, financial and otherwise, to to change the narrative. And, you know, after Ray Rice, Roger Goodell flew down a deck Texas donated a million dollars to a call center for women, you know, in distress and and suddenly we got a blizzard of PSAs with Eli Manning and all these players talking about their concern for women and safety of women. And then, you know,

Nestor Aparicio  11:23

then Justin Tucker happens here, and not a word is said in our community. I mean, it’s unbelievable. And he’ll be kicking in the league in four weeks, no doubt about it, right?

Ken Belson  11:30

Yeah. And, you know, Deshaun Watson, it popped up again. But by and large, the narrative people moved on. And I’ve seen this over and over and different issues over the years. Colin Kaepernick, they came up with inspire change. They got rock nation to come in and do some of the grassroots funding. And is anybody protesting now? I don’t see it. Even Trump. You mentioned Trump, Trump. 1.0 they were blindsided. They did not expect that. Particularly Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, they were friends with Trump and gave him money. But 2.0 it’s interesting. Who showed up at the Super Bowl. Gail Benson invites the president. And you know when they’re going to announce the draft to be in Washington in 2027 they do it in the Oval Office. Josh Harris, the private equity billionaire, gives him a commander’s jersey and says You are the ultimate commander. This is all about flattery. Roger Goodell is the son of a senator. US senator. He knows how the game is played that way. Ken Belson

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Nestor Aparicio  12:31

is my guest. His book is one that you should run and grab every day. Is Sunday. How Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft and Roger Goodell turn the NFL into a cultural and economic juggernaut, I guess, the basis of doing this, and you began the first paragraph with these really, really wealthy dudes, or at least perceived as such, whether they are, aren’t they have secondary businesses, or if they’re moguls in other places, bringing in funny money, you know, Wall Street money, friends money, private equity money, but they get no say in anything. We’re into that with the baseball team here, where the guy buys his team and makes a bobblehead of himself first, and then the team finishes in last place, and they’re sending spending their money, and they’re wondering why nobody’s going to the games. I just think there’s a thing with billionaires, and I’ve learned this the hard way. I thought I could change Peter Angelos 20 years ago like a fool, that it’s just a different world. And you know that from swimming in it, but then you bring in more money, and you led the book with it. And I was kind of shocked when I I thought, well, Ken must think this is important to think about this funny money coming in here, that Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft have so much money but still need more. And the weirdest thing, especially after Joe Flacco winning for the Bengals, is that the only person that backs off is the conservative Mike Brown right, who says, No, these are family businesses. They’re not,

Ken Belson  14:02

yeah, well, Mike is still a family business. There’s a handful of them left, but yeah, I deliberately started with that because, first of all, you had the two characters. I have it on my phone. I took a photo of it when it happened. It’s, it’s Jerry Jones and his son Steven and Robert Kraft and his son Jonathan, in the lobby of a hotel in Minneapolis or outside of Minneapolis where they’re going to vote very shortly to approve private equity money investment up to 10% literally hundreds of millions of dollars, with no voting rights. That’s a deal most owners would take right, sell off some equity, cash out.

Nestor Aparicio  14:38

No, it could be Saudi Arabian money, is what you’re telling me, right? Cannot.

Ken Belson  14:41

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That’s sovereign wealth, money, sovereign Saudis could be invested in the private equity, but the private equity are us.

Nestor Aparicio  14:48

It’s a shell game. Yeah, they could still be in on it. Yeah, we don’t know who the 10% owner is, and it doesn’t matter, right? Like, that’s it.

Ken Belson  14:55

Okay, don’t, don’t ask, don’t tell. But you know, this was a deal. All the other leagues had done, but the NFL is the biggest League. The numbers are, you know, Jeffrey Laurie sold 10% of his team at eight and a half billion. That’s $850 million and nobody’s asking for anything other than that stake, which they might cash out in a few years. So I literally witnessed them, and it was in August of 24 they were suntanned. They had spent the summer. Jerry spends his summer in the south of France. Robert on the cape. They were, they were chuckling. And I thought, This is it. This is the moment when they’re just laughing their way to the bank. They’re, they’re, you know, they’ve got the world at their hand, and then Roger Goodell comes over, if I remember Clark hunt and Art Rooney were there too, and Roger Goodell comes over, and the chuckling continues. And it was all right there in the lobby of the hotel. So I thought that that’s a moment where the rich keep getting richer. And, you know, he said, Well, why didn’t Why didn’t you and I do that? Well, it takes money to make money in these these elevations, and these guys know how to do it.

Nestor Aparicio  16:05

Ken, it’s a couple things. I mean, I love having you on I feel like I could visit all day and all night talk about all this stuff, especially with somebody as as well read and the history of all of this. Times, 32 franchises. I’ve just had the Baltimore slice for about 40 years, so I know enough to be dangerous around here, but the things that would have brought them down, I would have thought the head trauma and broken necks would have been something. I would have thought that Colin Kaepernick social issue of how you’re going to treat people of color in a game where 80% of the people are of color, and not to mention the fan base. And then the female thing, well, I thought we get over that, because we’re okay with men beating women. We just kind of are, over the course of time we’ve we’re okay with men shooting children in school. So we, we’ve gotten through all of that. But the gambling thing, of all the weirdness over all the years of doing this back in the 90s, when the team first came here, and if I would have been running around with Ray Lewis and Vinny Testaverde in 1996 and talking numbers and talking point, I never would have had a I would thought that would have been the one thing they would have taken my press credential for. If I was asking Joe Flacco how the arm felt before he went out this week and went on the radio and started talking about wagering on the notion that that I was in Vegas last week, and there’s a football team there, and I had JT the brick on this week talking about his football team there, and that I, I’m sponsored by the lottery, and John Martin gave the numbers of September, which are the largest gambling numbers ever, ever, ever, it’s only been five years here, but it’s way larger than they ever thought it was going to be. They thought it was going to be more casino, but it turns out it’s for Joe six pack in the basement at this point to gamble. I just think here’s another frontier where I’m like, if there’s anything that’s going to screw this up, if that kid almost dying on the turf in Cincinnati two years ago in front of the whole world, didn’t bring this down. The gambling part of this where bets of millions and millions and billions of dollars are being adjudicated by some guy saying, pass interference or no pass interference. And if you think that they’re going to they’ve already got players in on it immediately, breaking rules and doing things. I just think it’s the Garden of Eden Ken. It’s going to break the league. It’s going to wreck them. Tell me how it’s not?

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Ken Belson  18:27

Yeah, well, I’m not convinced that it, you know, it won’t. But, you know, look, the NFL is the most gambled on sport by far, college sport, college footballs after that, and that’s why it gets the lion’s share of attention. But you look in baseball, there was a picture just banned for life. It infects all sports it takes. And I know this in business, you know, it takes years, decades, sometimes, to build up trust with consumers. You know, Tylenol has been in the news. Remember, there was a scare back in the 80s about Tylenol took them years to rebuild their brand, it takes an instant to lose it, and so if we get a case where a we find out a quarterback or a kicker or somebody like that, a long snapper is taking money to make a bad play and influence the line, that’s disastrous. Is it a deal breaker? Probably not, but it’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle when you do that, just to swing back to Jerry Jones and Robert just for a moment. There’s a scene in the book where they go out to Las Vegas in 2016 This is a year, almost a year before Mark Davis gets the right to move the Raiders there, and they’re meeting with politicians and business leaders, and the County Commissioner Steve sisolak told me he was at that lunch. He said he was amazed they they never asked about gambling. They had already moved on mentally that gambling is eventually going to, you know, happen, because the Supreme Court was going to overturn the rule that banned it, and that was still two years out, and Jerry and Robert all they came. About was, is Las Vegas big enough? Can we sustain a team there? There are there enough season ticket holders? And he was quite surprised, given all their public rhetoric, private, in this private meeting, they didn’t seem concerned at all. It’s not a coincidence that Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft also invested in DraftKings before it went public. So these guys are, you know, they saw this coming down the pike 510, years before probably the average person did.

Nestor Aparicio  20:27

Ken Belson is our guest. If you’re listening out on the radio every day is Sunday. Is the new book. I would encourage everybody to go out. Ken, of course, a long time New York Times sports business writer, and specifically, really NFL writer, because it’s its own. Like Dion. I am a brand. I am a business. Um, all right, so let’s get the bashati for a minute, because his name’s once or twice in your book, and F bombs toward Daniel Snyder, which everyone on our side of the fence will take, everybody on their side of fence will take too at this point, I think, um, what? What do these guys care about? You know, because he doesn’t care about women in massage parlors in Baltimore. Doesn’t care about media people who he’s pretended to care about. He doesn’t care about much. He doesn’t care about speaking to the fans because he stopped doing press conferences eight years ago, the Ray Rice thing changed him dramatically. Everyone around him tells me that I have felt that. But what does he care about when the thing’s throwing off hundreds of millions of dollars of equity, if not revenue, it’s it’s a rocket ship. I mean, he bought it for the $625 million back in 25 years ago. It’s worth 5 billion. 6 billion depends on which day you ask me, or which day I call Kirk badenhausen. And he’ll give me the update. He’ll give me the timpani every year. Like Ed McMahon, is there anything that keeps these guys up in like, because I feel like Madrid, Frankfurt, London, Tokyo, that, you know, like it’s all coming down the line. I mean, Jacksonville ain’t there for long. The Chargers aren’t there for like. I mean, I was out in the South Bay. I get it, but it feels to me like the next thing is the 18th game, I guess, and the NFL. PM, I’ll have you back on in six months, and there’ll be a new problem. But I do wonder, what point does this thing even burp or fart? I mean, ever?

Ken Belson  22:14

Yeah, well, you’re right about the 18th game. Look, there’s a quote in there from Jim Irsay. I had asked him, he was one of the first owners I spoke to for the book. You know, all the teams make money by the time they turn on the lights at the beginning of the season, they’re already at break even because the media money coming in pays for the salary cap, Their largest expense and pretty much most of their operations. So the everybody’s doing well, it’s a good time to be an NFL owner. Jim Irsay had a quote about it. He said even Gomer Pyle could run an NFL team. It’s like putting a 747, on auto.

Nestor Aparicio  22:49

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I’m going to tell Sashi brown that the minute I meet him.

Ken Belson  22:53

It’s a great quote. Actually, his team president was on the Zoom call with with me at the time, and he he kind of looked down, like, yeah, don’t

Nestor Aparicio  23:00

think we really. Jim said a lot of things. I mean, we’re going to miss Jim. Aren’t Jim, aren’t we? Really? Yeah, no,

Ken Belson  23:04

Jim was one of a kind, for sure, and but anyway, so the point is, they’re all making money. As to Steve, I don’t know his personal motivations. I have not interviewed him, but there’s roughly about a quarter of, or excuse me, about a third of the owners, 10 to 12 owners, who are very involved, not just with their teams, but in league business. Robert and Jerry. Arthur, blank, Dan, sorry. Art Rooney, John Mara, they’re kind of the stalwarts. They’re helping on all the committees they’re they’re kind of doing using their own personal rolodexes. And then you get a bunch of owners in the middle who contribute but aren’t big, big players. So Dean Spanos in LA, Jed York, in San Francisco, the will family in Minnesota. And then you get another dozen off to the side that that frankly, aren’t very involved anymore. Paul Allen was never very involved. His his sister Jody, is not, you know, George McCaskey is involved, but he’s not a heavy hitter.

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Nestor Aparicio  24:04

He just sends a representative to the owners meetings, right? I mean, that’s stepped in the last 10 years. And was that guy for Steve,

Ken Belson  24:10

yes, exactly, exactly. And then you get Mike Brown, his daughter Katie, represents the team. So you get a lot of owners that are that are just riding along. Basically, Gail Benson is not, she’s there, but she’s not a super heavyweight either. I should say shot Khan in Jacksonville actually is quite active. So So I would put Steve in that third group, you know, pays his bills. Team does Okay, not this year, but most years has a stadium doesn’t seem to kick up too much dust and votes wherever the wind goes. I heard that. You know, he’s, I don’t know whether he’s going to sell the club or give it to one of his kids. So, you know, a lot of these owners now are in their 70s. The Jones and craft are in their 80s. We will see a new generation of owners start to come in the door we already have, and we’re. Washington

Nestor Aparicio  25:00

well, and we’re gonna see the kids in New England and in Dallas, right? I mean, they’ve been groomed. Hate to use that word for this, but like, they’re not going any. None of these people are going anywhere.

Ken Belson  25:10

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No. Arthur blanks son, one of his sons, Josh is already very involved. Jeffrey Laurie’s kid is involved. Jim Mercedes, daughters, running the Colts, doing a good job. Exactly. They stepped right in, all three of them. And then Steve Ross’s kid as well. Steve’s in his 80s. So, yeah, we will see a change to the guard, and then we will see some succession. I have to say, just this is just my own observation, but it’s very hard to follow a founder. You know, the founder’s vision, the founder’s energy. You look at Al Davis, I mean, he was a singular figure, and then you got Mark falls backwards into money, gets a free Stadium in Vegas

Nestor Aparicio  25:47

and makes more money in a minute than his father made in his lifetime. Literally, right? Like just falling into money. I talked to JT the brick. He said we went from 31st in revenue to third. And I’m like, and that’s happened since I jack Del Rio and you and me were out at the Biltmore having a cocktail saying, hey, maybe one the Raiders will get there one day. There was now I go out there, the blimps built. They’ve had a Super Bowl there, and Mark Davis has become one of the wealthier, of the wealthiest, after being Bob recito up in Alameda County, right? It’s hard to

Ken Belson  26:18

forget that, or it’s, it’s easy to forget that he used to fly on Southwest Airlines.

Nestor Aparicio  26:24

I ran into Al Davis, and every time I have Amy on, Al Davis sat in front of me on a flight at a Dana Point, California, up to Oakland, and all he talked about was women’s college basketball. He had the brackets out, and he was obsessed with, like, I’ve had moments with all I’ve had snapshots with all of these people, and I That’s why this book, when I got it, my wife’s like, Oh, you got another book going, No, no, no, no, no. This might be the best book since, like, liebovich, his book,

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Ken Belson  26:54

yeah, no, liebo, well, libo had a different take, but he saw those guys for what they were, right? Needy billionaires. There’s a scene in there with Robert Kraft. I contrast Jerry and Robert. And this TV producer was saying, you know, we always put Jerry on the air because he’s Jerry, but also because he’s the GM, right? We would show the GM normally, but then we show Jerry in his box is thrown at AT and T Stadium, he said, But Robert’s different. Robert wants to be on TV. He actually said, there are many owners who tell the producers, don’t put me on I don’t I don’t need it stand cronky. You’ll never see him on air, but, but so there’s a scene in the book where it was a rainy night at Foxborough, and they tried to show Robert on screen, but the glass covering the suite had all this glare from the stadium lights, and so it really wasn’t a usable camera shot, so they didn’t show him. And the next day, the producer gets a call from Robert Kraft says, How come you didn’t show me on air? So here he is watching his team, and yet he’s also got an eye up on the TV to see if he’s being shown so, yeah, the the egos are definitely apparent.

Nestor Aparicio  28:04

I’m still wondering about Roger’s wife and the tattoo. I’ll get a drink with Mark at some point in DC. Every day is Sunday. Hey, man, if this is as good as Leibovich, I mean, listen, man, I loved his book, and I’ll tell anybody, read his book. And as we get into it. Read Lords of the Realm too, because the baseball thing’s about to happen next year too. Business is sports. Love having you on. Belson, keep up the great work, and I’ll keep reading. You keep writing, and good luck with the book. And hope to have you at back on before Christmas, because we need to sell more copies. All right. Okay, thanks, Nestor. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Ken. Belson, the book is every day is Sunday, if you love the NFL, if you love to know how it works, how sausage is made, how to make it all this money when there’s no fans in the stands, you find out this. Go read the book. I’m going to be doing a Maryland crab cake tour courtesy of the Maryland lottery. I’ll have Raven scratch offs to give away. Tis the season for pumpkin spice and winning. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us.