Luke Jones and Nestor lament the sudden end of a glorious Orioles season in Arlington and what could’ve made things go differently for Brandon Hyde and a team that won 101 games in the regular season.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
pitching, orioles, game, year, pitchers, team, october, arlington, season, play, baltimore, playoffs, tuesday night, win, started, series, hollywood casino, rangers, swept, hyde
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome back wn S T, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively still in Dallas Texas making our way back home we will be on Friday at drug City at the fountain upstairs at the tasting room. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery in conjunction with the Friends of window nation 866 90 nation, the way to reach them as well as our newest sponsor, Jiffy Lube MultiCare. The season has come to a halt, we will be picking up Raven season on Sunday morning at the Hollywood casino up a pair of y’all will be up there nice and early at eight in the morning. Come on up. 30 bucks brunch, you can come you don’t have to buy the brunch. But if you buy the brunch you get involved in a whole bunch of games where you can win 500 bucks as well as a whole bunch of other prizes. There’s a wing eating competition as well. It’s at the Hollywood casino in Perryville. The day that begins my 56th year on the planet. My birthday is Saturday. And what about this was for my birthday, my birthday always falls in the middle of the baseball playoffs. Now they’re they’re playing World Series games in November, but it was October the 16th 1983. Last time the Orioles won the World Series. We were hoping for a better outcome for all of you holding ALCS tickets and calendars and all of that. Certainly Luke and I’ve put our lives on hold to go do this. We were in Arlington at the end. And I guess the end really was the beginning with Dean Kramer took the ball. Luke, I’ll let you bring you in here. And you know, you and I have talked at length in being roommates together on the road in Arlington, Texas, but they just weren’t good enough. Like I mean, we’re gonna sit here for hours and talk about we’re gonna talk about it for months. What happened how there are one scene How disappointing this is for all the young players. You were in the locker room after the game in Arlington on on Tuesday night. Just some thoughts about wrapping this thing up because it it is a sad goodbye for this team. This is the best team of your lifetime. And certainly this generation, no question
Luke Jones 01:58
about it. And I mean, it’s we talked we’ve talked about this so many times over the years with the ravens, because they’ve been in the playoffs far more frequently than the Orioles have. Since the Ravens arrived in 1996. We talked about how quickly it ends. Baseball is not that quick, although certainly the Orioles have been involved in the wildcard game on two different occasions, the happy ending in Arlington in 2012. And we know what happened in Toronto and 16. But you made mention of your birthday, I think a week ago, you and I would have said well, they’ll at least be playing for your birthday. They’ll still be playing by then. And it just it ends so quickly. And you just stole the words right out of my mouth. We’ll talk about this a lot. We’ll continue to talk about this. We’ll be talking about this offseason, we’ll be talking about this next season. Because everything will be about getting back to this stage, as we’ve talked about with the Ravens on so many, so many years, so many occasions talking about January defining their legacy. But it was very simple. And game one they didn’t hit. In Game Two, they didn’t pitch and in game three, they did neither. So you do that and the best of five, yeah, you’re gonna go go go home because you’re not facing a bad team in the postseason. This is a Texas Rangers team that was really, really good at different times over the course of the season. That guy even said to you before the season started, I thought at a few different points. They might even be the best team in the American League, certainly the best offense in the American League. So you give them credit. But at the same time and Brandon Hyde acknowledged this, a number of players acknowledge this. I mean, Austin Hays flat out said, hey, it’s not a whole lot to say we got our butts kicked. And for whatever reason, we just weren’t good enough. So it from that standpoint, you hope it motivates a young club that will mostly be intact, starting in spring trading in February, and we’ll see what happens in terms of trades or signings or anything like that. Well, plenty of time to talk about that. But it’s, you know, it’s a cold business and you can win 101 games, but if you don’t play well, even for 72 hour period, you’re going home and that’s what the Orioles are experiencing right now. And I think it’s just it’s as simple as that. Again, you lose three, two, you didn’t hit you lose 11 Eight, you didn’t pitch and you lose seven one. You did neither. And that resulted in a very quick exit for the Baltimore Orioles even after a 101 long 101 wins season.
Nestor Aparicio 04:38
I think it’s it doesn’t take Jim Palmer to realize that like you need more pitching right and you’re the season began and and I was credential on Tuesday night I actually sat in a couple of press conferences in a media room but I saw Brandon Hyde twice on Tuesday, which is twice more than I have in my whole life. My whole career literally my whole life. I’ve never been in a room with him. So Oh, and I got to ask a question at the end. But, you know, for me with seeing what they started the season with pitching wise, what they ended the regular season pitching wise. What they began the playoffs, no means right. So, so no Fuji you know these things that these guys they took a chance of Flaherty who pitched five minutes in a in a white washing which was found to be his role in the postseason given Valley pitch in August and September. I’ll go back to you and like, dare I say as we sit here together in Arlington, Texas, after this disappointing 101 win season, where they sort of went wired wire is a pretty good baseball team. I mean, Tampa is beginning didn’t allow them. I mean, Tampa built a four month of cushion that they probably didn’t deserve. In the end. They were way over their heads in April, and really weren’t much after that. And they kicked the ball. I mean, Toronto kicked the ball around last week in a series as well, that you say, well, you kick the ball around, you lose, right? Well, with the Orioles. This wasn’t about a bang, bang play first base. It wasn’t about a crappy home plate umpire squeezing zone or, you know, this was a complete organizational failure in October, based on young players, a manager who was out managed to some degree because Bochy just had the savvy about pitching, and then not having the pitching, and not having the pitching out on the West Coast four weeks ago, not having the pitch in as they broke Sarasota, in your mind, saying, This is the Luke Jones quote, they could have done more, they should have done more. And ivaldi was one of the guys I can go get the tapes on you back in February, March, like, hey, they could have had a guy like ivaldi, right. And his name will be ringing in my ears from the 50,000 people in Arlington, on Tuesday night chanting his name at the end of the game. That’s a dude out right out there, right? That’s a dude on the Tuesday night to come out and take the ball and end this thing, get everybody rest, they’re going to be lined up for whatever Houston probably has. for them. That is going to be an ugly, they don’t like each other. But ivaldi The Rangers got him. The Orioles didn’t and that’s on top of the money spent on Sieger the money wasted on take your pick out are easy to Grom shares are downloaded and those guys, and that’s the worst part because the Orioles would have come into this thing. And let’s say Texas one 103 And it was flipped around. And you had to see Scherzer to Graham, in order yet to really see those guys, you wouldn’t have seen ivaldi
Luke Jones 07:47
Yeah, well, I think you still would have seen ivaldi Because clearly they prioritize signing him. But he certainly wouldn’t have been viewed as in the same way they wouldn’t have they probably don’t go out and get Jordan Montgomery. You know who was obviously backside? Well, well, I mean, it’s not as though he pitched great against the Orioles. But he certainly pitch really well against Tampa Bay. And he was he was there. Those two guys were there guys. So I mean, look ivaldi had a really good start to the season. And then he missed two months. So you never know how that’s going to impact any team. I mean, the Rangers were able to endure that to some degree, although certainly they lost the division in the final weekend,
Nestor Aparicio 08:29
so we thought John means was gonna be starting Tuesday night, but we sat here right in Baltimore last week. Right?
Luke Jones 08:35
Right. And let’s not you know, I don’t want to make too much of John means but we knew how tenuous all of this looked from from a rotation standpoint. And I’m still not going to sit here and try to diminish what Kyle Bradish did. As one of the best pitchers in the American League. What Grayson Rodriguez did as one of the better pitchers in the AFL for the second half of the season, the numbers don’t lie, go back and look where they ran. Well, they
Nestor Aparicio 08:59
wouldn’t have won 101 games. Exactly. So And those were things that were unpredictable in in March.
Luke Jones 09:04
Sure, sure. So so when in March when I said yeah, they could have done more, they should have done more. I would have loved to have seen them go out and get a Nathan ivaldi. And you see what he did. And something that really resonated with me, Nestor and full disclosure, you were in the interview room listening to Brandon Hyde. I went immediately to the clubhouse to get as much reaction as as possible. And you could check out all that Baltimore positive.com. But something really resonated when Hyde was taught was asked about Nathan ivaldi. And he used the term what playoff pitcher October pitcher and he he just said matter of factly. And we know that this is a guy who has pitched on this stage before and I don’t mean Kyle Gibson who made a relief appearance who’s never started a postseason game and I’m talking about someone who, oh, not folk hero status but certain Lee has had some, some big time success pitching in October in the past. And I just for me hearing bread and I’d say that that resonated and that’s I don’t think it was meant as a knock towards his guys or anything like that. It’s just there is a difference. Right? And let’s be clear, native audience. He didn’t have that reputation until what he went and did it right. And we’ve seen pitchers. And we’ve talked we talked to a few days ago about Clayton Kershaw being an example of a guy who, my goodness is a Hall of Fame pitcher, but, you know, not just Saturday night, but he’s had some other you know, this past Saturday night where he got shelled and didn’t make it out of the first inning. He’s had some other appearances in October that were not crucial, like so. It’s different. It’s difficult. It is a magnified environment. And one thing that kind of stood out, Kramer didn’t mention this specifically, but asking a lot of different players. What stood out about October when you know, all you all you’ve heard going into this series was October is different playoff baseball is different. And a few different guys did acknowledge the crowd noise and the energy just being what it is. And I think it’s tough to look to sit here and be dismissive of the notion that maybe they just weren’t quite ready for this stage as a young team, as a team that didn’t have October tested pitchers. As a team that didn’t have October tested hitters. I pointed out to you Nestor, you look at the Braves, you look at the Astros, you look at the Dodgers, you look at the nationals four years ago, go back to the Cubs. None of those teams got there and won it all their first time through. I mean, that’s, that’s rare when that happens. And that’s not to say it’s impossible. That’s not to say you just say well, all shucks, they’re just glad to be here. But it does speak to it is a difficult environment. And I think especially for some young guys who they can say all they want. I don’t think there were many guys in that clubhouse in Sarasota back in May in March or February and March, who were saying we’re gonna win 101 games, I think you had guys that were confident that they were going to be a winning team, confident that I’ll even say we’re going to make the playoffs and and even say, yeah, we can make some noise in the Al least we don’t have to sit here and assume everyone else is better than us. Did any of those guys really think they’d make the jump from where they were last year, which, if you recall, was a historic jump last year, you know, from 2021 to 22. So, but but these guys, you know, they they want 101 games, something that hadn’t been done by an Orioles clubs since 1979. You know, they had a phenomenal season. Even this bitter disappointment does not diminish the fact that they had a really successful season. But now, it is a different expectation moving forward, it is going to be a different set of questions moving forward, because this hurts
Nestor Aparicio 12:58
because this this isn’t good enough in the same way that whatever John Harbaugh has done the last 10 years. It’s not good enough when you don’t win, right. I mean, it’s it’s nice to say we you know, we had fun, we sold some tickets, we got a trip to Texas out of it or whatever. But this this bitterness this week, for everybody should sink in to say, you don’t want to feel this way again, you know, you don’t want to make the playoffs five out of the next six years and get bounced, and not even playing the ALCS. And part of that is how do we get better? And how does the pitching get better? Because I mean, certainly the bats and the experience and you weren’t in the room with Brandon Hyde but I was on Tuesday night he talked about we have the experience now we have the experience of having done this and more than that, I don’t think he even because it was 10 minutes old, the marination of Austin Hayes having to go home and Adley rutschman going out to the West Coast and watching the World Series on television again, which they’ve done all their lives. Now they and if Texas is in it 10 days from now they look and say we were there lol And of all the all of all the starting game three of all the starting games seven, you know whatever it’s going to be for them they’re going to watch that and say that could have should have would have been me and what they do with that and you and I are intimately familiar, we were together. Billy Cundiff belong bus ride home 52 weeks and a day. You literally a year later Flacco went up there and got it and made it right reg Lewis made it right, thrilled sucks. All those guys made it right, because they didn’t like the Billy con to flee Evans ending and for the Orioles of 79. And if Lanny were here, he talked about it. I know Rick Dempsey talked about it on the show two weeks ago 79 And I was a kid begat 80 and the disappointment in 81 in the splits season in 82, and Palmer and Sutton and then finally in 80, I mean, it took it took years. So the fact that this didn’t happen, and 101 wins didn’t will us to a World Series playing the Braves two weeks from now or wherever it would be. The fact that that didn’t happen. Shouldn’t be shocking, right? I mean, even as the playoffs began Vegas hated the Orioles because they didn’t have experience and I think Vegas would say that they didn’t have the pitching pedigree, right. And I it’ll keep going back to that I don’t want to keep harping on it. But they needed better pitching and I and we all smart people sort of knew that all year long. And again, I say if they would have seen the Rangers paid pitchers, you guys they paid for not the guys, we saw the guys we saw beat us badly, really badly. It was a sweep. But having better pitchers or having wherever Grayson Rodriguez is to make that next step. The next time he does this, and there’s no experience for experience. I mean, this is there’s nothing beating what they got this week. But this feeling this isn’t. This isn’t good enough.
Luke Jones 15:59
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn’t want anyone in that room to be happy. Be happy in a big picture sense as far as how far you’ve come. And knowing that you have a lot going for you and and it isn’t just the pitching, they have to hit better. I mean, Adley rutschman, hit Oh, 83. You mentioned 1979. And you took the words right out of my mouth, even though you didn’t mention this individual specifically, but think about how we remember Eddie Murray, as one of the you know, a clutch hitter and everything he did get an awful 1979 World Series and 83 hits the two home runs it says
Nestor Aparicio 16:34
he had to pounce on that. I was I remember his failures being brought up in all those years sure that the Orioles are never going to win, because believe me when they lost the Sutton and 82 It felt like they were never gonna win.
Luke Jones 16:48
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s. And that’s probably, I liked that you brought that up, because part of the pain of this still has to be. And I mentioned this, so I’m guilty of this, too. But yes, they’re young. Yes, they’re talented. Yes, they should have a really, regardless of what happens from a financial standpoint, payroll standpoint, free agent, signings, trades, all of that they’ve got a young core in place here that they should be good to really good at these for the next few years. That’s fair, and saying regardless of whether John Angeles is going to spend any money at all. But that said, you don’t know what’s going to happen. And you mentioned the Texas Rangers and look at what that team was supposed to be on paper. You know, if the Grom doesn’t get hurt, do they trade for Scherzer? I mean, who knows? I mean, they might be in a different position that they don’t even do something like that. But point is they had a lot of guys that, you know, they had a lot of things that didn’t go right for them in the same way that the Orioles did in certain certain instances. But but the Rangers being a more extreme of that, but you don’t know what’s going to happen. Maybe the best lesson to take away from this is hey, it was great to win 101 games, and everyone was talking about not being swept all season. And you know, best Orioles teams since 1979. First 100 Win teams since 1980. Go through all the different factoids that we’ve mentioned. Because I’m I’m a stat nerd, I’m a baseball nerd yet you are to have from a historical standpoint, but they lost 191 team. And that’s not to say that the Rangers were this over the top inferior team to them. Yeah, you look at what what they did offensively and how they could score runs. And you know, they were really good team as well. But that right? There might be Hey, don’t, don’t be focused on needing to win 100 to win games next year. Just get in, get back to the stage. And that’s going to be the goal for them and look, the Orioles. Are they going to win 101 again next year. baseball history would tell us probably not you know, okay, I’ll hear the 1969 Oreos one, what 109 And then 70. They came back and they weren’t quite as good. They only want 108. But typically you’re not going to see something like that. So it might be an Orioles team that maybe doesn’t win the division or maybe they only win 92 or 91 or 90, like the Rangers but the difference is what you just said they are now experienced now. It’s not as much experience as you would have hoped they would have gained this year you you’re hoping to see them at least get to an ALCS I think, even if you were grounded with your expectations of what this team was going to do as an inexperienced team in October, you still wanted to see him fare, please win a postseason game. Now they have an eight game postseason losing streak now going back to the Kansas City ALCS back and forth in 14, but they do have experience and they do know what this feeling is like now they know how loud it can be at Camden Yards and also in an opponent’s ballpark. In an October post. He And setting. So these are all things that can drive them. And it will inform them, I think it will inform brand and hide in the coaching staff. You know, the five day layoff, you know, not to make an excuse. But was that a factor? I mean, I don’t know how it can’t be, you know, there. There’s enough data, the support that, you know, even in two years now, we saw Atlanta and the Dodgers be eliminated last year, they were the two best teams in the NFL,
Nestor Aparicio 20:25
you know, do analytics you have in launch? And we’re gonna measure this and, man, there’s no measure of momentum, right? I mean, you know, once it starts, and we’ve seen it in every sport, right, that feeling when the stadium tilts in a football game, or, you know, when it shifts and certainly for the Orioles, the five days off, got them stale and got the bat slower. It didn’t allow them to align their pitching perfectly, because means got hurt, right? So I mean, no matter what they were doing, they were always playing from a different level than they wanted to play from. And when that really started with Batista, you know, when when this failure goes back, we won’t say well, they got swept because Batista got hurt. But that was the beginning of the cracks in Who’s this Fuji guy, he can’t throw a strike. And then when when the stadia stadia, both the stadiums got loud. There was just something about the crowd noise, and I’ll talk about this. And it’s not me doing the Eddie Murray 1979 Choke thing or you know any of that. It’s just it’s a different game. And I guess for the golfers that go and play in that waste management thing and Phoenix and people were screaming at them when there’s when they’re there. They’re playing. It’s just if somebody was in here making noise right now trying to distract me while I was doing radio. I wouldn’t be used to that. I’m used to quiet you know, and I think the Orioles have operated at a different sound barrier. And I think the regular season, even when you play in Yankee Stadium on a Saturday night in June, or even when you play in a sold out game somewhere on the road because they’re given a bobble head away and they have a pitcher that’s going or you play Shohei Otani or whatever it would be. Come on, man, you were at the ballpark last week, right? I mean, every everybody in our audience, there’s nothing to compare, right? April, May, June, July, August, even September to what we saw in Arlington when the game started on Tuesday night.
Luke Jones 22:25
Yeah, I mean, it’s okay to it’s okay to admit that it’s okay to acknowledge that as a variable what was and find you that’s not the only variable. I mean, they didn’t pitch you have centered Mullins was hitless for the series. I mentioned Robinhood Oh, 83. I mean, go down the list. mountcastle didn’t do much. You know, I mean, Gunnar Henderson. Well, Aaron
Nestor Aparicio 22:46
Hicks. I mean, you talk about experience, Aaron Hicks said, hey, it’s playoffs. I recognize this. And he does, you know,
Luke Jones 22:53
he does, but go look at his career numbers in the postseason prior to this series hadn’t done very much. So I mean, it’s part of it is also it’s just baseball. You know, I mean, we sit here and talk about a three game series, a three game sweep. Now, I can’t say this because the Oracles didn’t get swept all year. And Cedric Mullins by the way, a little bit of he wasn’t he wasn’t making light of it. But he flat out said yes, it is a little ironic that we didn’t get swept all year. And now this happens on this stage. But, you know, it’s just it’s baseball too, when you have two teams that are capable. This wasn’t the Orioles going up against the Oakland Athletics or the Kansas City Royals, your teams that lost 100 plus games this year? Well, that
Nestor Aparicio 23:39
was a little bit of eye candy back at the end of September, were beaten Boston and beaten Washington, you know, beaten these teams that just didn’t have anything to play for.
Luke Jones 23:47
Right? Well, but But in fairness, they also took two out of three in Houston, you know, they bounced back against the rays after losing the first to have that four game set. I mean, it’s, you know, they they handled those two environments reasonably well. And let’s, let’s say okay, that’s not October, but that race series in Baltimore in mid September, was as close as they got at home to that, that series down in Houston was as close as they got to what they experienced in Arlington on Tuesday night. You know, because that was a raucous crowd when they played the Astros for that three game set, but yeah, it’s not the same thing. But But the difference now moving forward is they’ve experienced that you know that Grayson Rodriguez, knowing what kind of kid he’s been and the adjustments we already saw him make from April in May, where he ended up getting demoted to coming back after the all star break and looking like one of the better pitchers in the American League. This is going to drive his offseason. Now this is something that’s going to drive him this is something that’s going to drive Dean Kramer Bradish didn’t fare as poorly as those guys but this will drive Bradish you know this, this will drive Adley rutschman. Now this will drive several days open Governor Henderson governor had a great series. I mean, he batted 500, you know, statistically. But, you know, all these guys know that they weren’t good enough for this, this three game sweep. I mean, that’s stating the obvious. And, you know, you can use that as motivation. Hyde said, it’s the headline right now at Baltimore positive.com. You know, it’s, it’s okay to be hurt over this, it’s okay to, to hurt, you know, it’s okay to feel bad about this right now. Don’t let it cloud the reality that you have a lot to be, you know, a lot to be proud of this season. But, you know, at the end goal is to be the last team standing in October or early November, I should say. So that’s a reminder that there’s only only going to be one team that is happy, and the Rangers 10 days from now, or whatever it might be, maybe they’re going into a World Series. Or maybe they’re going home, and maybe they’re feeling what the Orioles are feeling at this moment, or what they were feeling Tuesday night. So you know, they’ve got to get better. I certainly will talk about things that they can do from a roster building standpoint, and Mike Elias and ownership and payroll and trades and prospects who are blocked, you know, guys that we talked about a triple A this year, but so much of their improvement is going to be driven from the guys that they already have. And guys who are now going to be a year older guys that are going to be more experienced, they’re going to be tested in October, even if they failed this initial October test. And they should be better for it the next time around whether it’s next year year after that year after that, you know, no guarantees, we understand that as well. But, you know, I think it’s just no, it’s a combination of those factors, you know, never been on this stage five day layoff and just the weirdness of that, the Batista injury with the house of cards that the bullpen became, and the starting rotation for it as well as they pitched down the stretch. And they deserved that go look at them. Statistically, they were a big reason why the Orioles won this division and won 101 games, but at the same time, yeah, you didn’t have a Nathan ivaldi. You didn’t have a Jordan Montgomery. You didn’t have on paper, what the Rangers were supposed to have with the Grom. You know, who had Tommy John, of course, and Max Scherzer, who it sounds like there could be a decent chance that he’s back for the ALCS, which will be really exciting for that Rangers team. So, you know, it’s a process and they’ve been a very process oriented team over the last five years. Anyone can see that knowing how awful it felt for the longest time watching this team. But they did great things in 2023. And now the expectations definitely change. How do you recover from this? How do you get back to October? And when you’re back in October? How do you break through?
Nestor Aparicio 27:50
He is Luke Jones he is Baltimore Luca on NES. You can find both of us back in Baltimore licking our orange wounds and we’ll be following all things ravens as they head over to London here this weekend will be at the Hollywood casino one Sunday in the morning having a jolly old a British breakfast stop by please see us at Hollywood casino in Perry Ville gonna play the games come on up. You bring the family it’s a family friendly restaurant. You can also participate in $30 Brunch. Some French toast sounds pretty good right about now and a cup of coffee from ROFO as well. On Friday will be a drug city celebrating my birthday as well as the Marilyn crabcake tour. We will be upstairs at the fountain There’s a rumor that Luke Jones may make an appearance on Friday which would be great. Weird that we appear in the same room from time to time but we do it’s all brought to you by window nation 8669 D nation as well as our friends at Jiffy Lube multi care. I’ll be giving away the Ravens scratch offs on Friday at drugs city and the fountain as we make our way back. We’re going to talk Kyle Gibson. We’re going to talk to you and Kramer we’re going to talk to start we’re going to talk about Brandon Hyde. We’re certainly gonna talk some ravens heading over to London as well. He’s Luke I’m Nestor we are still in Dallas making our way back we are wn st am 1570, Towson, Baltimore. And as my shirt says Baltimore versus everybody we are Baltimore positive
