Injuries happen in football. This week, the Baltimore Ravens saw injuries to rookie cornerback Nate Wiggins in the first preseason loss to the Eagles and then budding superstar Kyle Hamilton gave a scare at practice in Owings Mills. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss John Harbaugh getting the starters to Kansas City and ready to start strong against the Chiefs on September 5th.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
play, wiggins, point, preseason games, hamilton, year, game, kyle, players, ravens, quarterback, preseason, defense, talking, practice, good, snaps, starters, ball, team
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W N, S T, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore, positive. We are positively into another week of preseason football where bad things can happen in games, in practices, all sorts of places. Luke Jones will be out in Owens, Mills, all the brought to you by our friends, Jiffy Lube, multi care, as well as royal farms, real fresh, real fast. We’re going to be bringing the Gold Rush sevens doublers down to fadelies Next Friday for the cheatstros, you’re continuing the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by Liberty pure solutions and our friends getting us crystal clear water. I wish I had my purple colored glasses out. I don’t this week we have baseball going on, so I used to have my orange colored glasses out, and I will have the Raven scratch offs to give away. And we get together next month. We begin on the fourth of September. Will be a Cocos. And then the oyster tour begins on the fifth. And I know something special that happens on the fifth of September, for at least five minutes. We won’t be talking about the Orioles bullpen or Brandon heights managerial decisions, or whether we’re hitting the ball or not. All eyes will be on the football field. Look, just trying to get the horses to the course. And it’s always like this, especially in early August, it’s, where’s Linder bomb, he’s not good. Oh, my God. Kyle Hamilton, I hope it’s soft tissue. You know, all the things that hardball would say, but even where these guys aren’t tackling to the ground and doing all this stuff, they play these crazy preseason games, guys get hurt, and he’s got to hope it’s not Kyle Hamilton, man,
Luke Jones 01:33
yeah, scary weekend. I mean, it started with Friday night, where Nate Wiggins was easily the biggest standout performance, the most encouraging, exciting development on a night when you rested most of your starters, and that wasn’t surprising, that was the expectation. But Wiggins breaks up three passes on the first drive of the game, looks the part. I mean, you’re saying, Man, I mean, how are they going to keep this kid off the field for very long, and then he hurts his shoulder early in the second half. Good news. Minor doesn’t sound like week one will be in jeopardy whatsoever, but it’s a reminder of just how unsettling it can be. And I mean, I saw some people criticizing the fact that he was playing early in the second half, and I’ll hear that to a point at the same time, he’s a rookie, and you want to see what he can do, right? So, but the good news is, sounds like just a minor AC joint sprain. He’ll probably miss some time, but doesn’t sound like he’ll be, you know, missing too much time, or in jeopardy of missing week one. But on Sunday, scary moment for the Ravens. Kyle Hamilton kind of pulls up as he’s playing the ball in an 11 on 11 drill goes down. I didn’t see exactly the mechanism as far as whether the knee buckled or anything like that, but saw him down, holding his left leg. We think the knee to the point where he limped off. And John Harbaugh went over to the sideline, Lamar Jackson and Isaiah likely went over to the sideline and Nestor you you went to training camp over the years, enough, when you have a major player go down, even if it’s a scare, and it ended up being a scare for for Kyle Hamilton, sounds like, you know, there’s no concerns about the stability of the knee or anything like that. But when that happens, it sucks all the air and life out of the crowd. I mean, it got quiet. Oh, dude,
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:25
let me tell you what with the preseason game. Because I was watching the Orioles on Friday, and, like, all this stuff was going on, dude, the Wiggins thing. The minute he came off the field, I saw he was low fiving people with a with a left arm. And then, and I said to my wife, I’m like, and I don’t want to be too macabre about this, because when my wife was diagnosed with cancer, I, like, was freaked out, and I mistakenly referred to her doctor as the Grim Reaper, who came in the room. But when Leanne curl shows up, it’s never good, right? You know what I mean. And I would think the same thing is true of practice is sort of like when they see Leanne show up or when they see a primary doctor in the old days, Andy Andy Tucker was also one of those guys who famously in the Billick era, when that happens all the other players, there’s a hush for everybody, right? I mean, you know the difference between the doctor showing up and not?
Luke Jones 04:19
Yeah, there is. But the good news with Hamilton, he was able to get up off the field, limp to the sideline. He ultimately walked in without assistance. Now, he did have a little bit of a limp, but John Harbaugh said after practice that structurally, that it seems stable, you know, obviously, as you know, the first thing you think when a guy’s grabbing his knees, ACL right? But looks like it’ll be okay. I’m guessing it’ll miss a little bit of practice time. I mean, it’s Kyle Hamilton. You know, Kyle Hamilton doesn’t necessarily need to be on the field every day over the next three and a half weeks, as we’re leading into week one, especially if he’s, you know, whatever the issue was. But these are just those reminders that. And the ravens, you know, secondary is an area where they have depth compared to some other position groups. But, you know, they already lost Arthur millet for the start of the season with, uh, arthroscopic knee surgery. He’s going to miss at least the first couple games, if not a little bit more time than that. But I mean, Kyle Hamilton, he’s right there with, you know, if you know, if you want to say row Quan Smith is still the best player on their defense, I’ll hear that. But I think it’s at least one in one a at this point with Kyle Hamilton. And I think Kyle Hamilton from a transcendent play, versatility, productivity, the fact that he’s still so young, he’s gonna be the best player on this defense for a long time, and that’s even if roquan still remains the, the heart and soul in terms of, like, the leader, so to speak. But Hamilton is, so
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:47
you say for a long time, that’s, that’s strong, you know, you don’t, yeah, you’re, nobody’s gonna stay healthy, right? But, yeah, I mean, to your point, he’s, you know, you feel like he’s an is that it might be. And he’s a guy they’re going to keep here in this given, right? Well, given it’s football, it’s not baseball. We baseball. We’ll have that conversation about who’s saying and who’s going in the case of, when you have players like that, they they stay.
Luke Jones 06:12
I mean, obviously this applies for any young player. He’s got to stay healthy, he’s got to show he can do it for the long haul. But I was even talking to someone in the organization just a couple of days ago, and we were just kind of just talking, not, not anything earth shattering, just kind of talking about the roster. And I made this point, I don’t say that. You just said it. So I’m not even, you know, I’m not blowing my own horn here, but I’m not someone who likes to give offer the hot takes that you’ll see on the talking head shows and all that I that’s the last thing that I want to be. I don’t want to be that. But I look at Kyle Hamilton, and what he already is two years into his career, the size, the speed, the physicality, the mental makeup that, by all accounts, is impressive. You hear him speak to the media. It’s impressive. You see him interact with his teammates. It’s impressive. He, he he handles himself like he’s 30 years old and he’s, you know, still, what, 23 I guess. I don’t say this lightly. I think he has the potential, I think he has the ability. I think he has the upside to be in that next tier, right below Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, as far as the best defensive players in the history of the franchise. And I think he has some intangibles that put him over other players in this organization who are in the Ring of Honor, or are guys that are potentially going to be in the Hall of Fame. That’s how highly I think of Kyle Hamilton. So yeah, when he goes down on Sunday and he’s holding his leg, that’s a scary moment. That’s a season altering kind of injury, if it’s serious. But the good news all indications, early indications, and they were going to, you know, run tests and all that, just to be sure, but the early indications were that he’s going to be okay. I I’m not expecting him to be on the practice field the next day or two, necessarily, but I think he’ll be okay. And it’s just a reminder, the only major headlines this time of year for your football team are bad ones. I mean, well, yes, we’ll talk about, you know, the backup quarterback situation, or what you did or didn’t see from the offense, the offensive line. You know, some good, some bad. There still some TBD in terms of the starters. And you know, we already mentioned Nate Wiggins and what he looked like. But you know, you see Kyle Hamilton go to the ground and holding his leg, even if just for a few moments. Boy that that sucks the air out of the crowd. And it really did on it was, it was it was eerie. Nestor, the crowd got quiet. They play music. During practice, the music stopped. It was very much like a hey, this is not good. Fortunately, again, he was able to walk off. I’ll be at a little bit of a limp, but uh. John Harbaugh, the early prognosis was that he did not suffer any kind of major injury, so we’ll see how it plays out. But boy. Kyle Hamilton is on that very short list. It’s Lamar Jackson, and then a significant drop off to anyone else but roquan Smith, Justin, Mata, Bucha, Kyle Hamilton, yeah, not even mark Andrews anymore, because you have Isaiah likely, right? Zay flowers, I would put into that category, though. I mean, it’s a short list of guys where you lose someone and you say, Oh no, Tyler, Linder bomb, I put into that category at this point, but Kyle Hamilton, certainly in that group. But again, fortunate that it appears he dodged a major injury bullet, but it was dicey there for a few moments, as you’re seeing him holding his knee and trainers running out to see how he’s doing.
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:41
Well, dicey for Wiggins, too. Sure the framework of the game, and I mentioned Leanne curl and his value to the defense and what they want him to do and what they expect him to do on on that front, let’s talk about the game, even though we don’t want to at all. I. Uh, any, I mean, the observations would be, he flashed in the way you wanted the flash then he got hurt, which is, that’s the best and the worst thing, right? You put him out there to see him flash, because he’s your first round pick and he’s your bright, shiny object, like Kyle Hamilton was two years ago, right? What else? What do you see what I always see in these, you know, electronic magnet games of preseason, where you’re trying to figure out how to pronounce guys names and who’s what doing what, especially in the second half. God bless Rob Woodson and Jerry Sandusky for that effort and Evan Washburn. But for me, putting guys out there with opposites and I mean, not starters, where you’re like, all right, some of our wide receivers are going to go in some sets. Some of our offensive linemen are going to play the whole day, but not next to the guy that they practice next to, if it’s Stanley, if it’s Linder bomb. So we’re not going to get any vibe on that everybody’s going to be measured by their job in this vanilla scheme, with a backup quarterback, with certain backup parts playing against other backup parts, some of which are you see the Bengals in preseason, they go full on or whatever. Mike Tomlin, some guys sort of play some starters. We’re not playing those teams. I don’t think, I don’t know what we’re going to get from the Falcons this weekend. You tell me. But it’s so weird a couple of days later to sort of look at it as anything other than oh my god, is Wiggins? Okay, yeah,
Luke Jones 11:35
I think that’s fair. I think you’re always looking for individual standouts, right? I mean, that’s really the best way to look at it, because I would even say, you know, if you’re trying to evaluate, say, like, let’s just use the edge rushers for an example, right? Always set out Kyle van Noy set out. David ajabo was held out. He’s not fully cleared for live game action yet, although he’s been practicing. Think he’s really close. But you know, he’s coming back from ACL surgery. So for me, I look at someone like a Tavis Robinson who played last year but didn’t play a whole lot for them. And hey, you’re looking for beyond OA and Van Noy. It’s wide open for edge snaps at this point. I mean, you have a rotation typically of at least four, if not five guys. So there are snaps there to be one. So when I see someone like tavius Robinson, you know, I’d like to see him jump and stand out against when you’re going up against other backups. And I didn’t really see that, but that’s the example you’re looking for in the case of Wiggins. Of course, he wasn’t matched up against AJ Brown, Devonte Smith, even, even Paris Campbell, their number three wide receiver in Philadelphia, but he still looked apart, sticky in coverage, aggressive. That’s what you want to see. Yeah, that that’s what a first round pick should look like in that setting, going up against backup players. But you know, beyond the Wiggins injury concern up Nestor, I’m just going to go position by position. I’ll give you a thumbnail for everything I saw, and then we’ll forget about it, because it’s not all that important, because it’s a preseason game to your point, but backup quarterback situation, I’ve been saying this. I don’t love Josh Johnson as the backup you know me, Nestor philosophically, I am not someone that believes in investing major resources in your backup quarterback position, because if you lose your franchise quarterback, and you have a legitimate franchise quarterback, you’re screwed. I mean, you just are, for lack of a better term. And you know, Tom Moore famously talked about that with Indianapolis and Peyton Manning when he was asked, why don’t you give the reps to the backup and you say, Look, if number 18 goes down, we’re bleeped. And we don’t practice being bleeped around here. And that, I kind of get that look. If Ryan Tannehill wants to come, come in and take a really cheap deal to be the backup and be an upgrade over Josh Johnson, I’ll hear that, but I’m not going to go spend $6 million on a backup quarterback. I’m just not. I’ll roll I’ll roll the dice that Lamar stays healthy, and if he gets hurt for a game or two, I’ll live with whatever the result is. And if he’s hurt for more than that, your season’s probably cooked anyway. So that’s where they are. At quarterback, I think Josh Johnson’s limited Leary didn’t show a whole lot. Running back, I don’t have a whole lot to say about it. I think it’s very evident. Derek, Henry Justice Hill, overwhelming, going to have the carries. Henry, with the obvious, lion’s share. Justice Hill will get some change of pace touches. I’m not sure there’s a third running back right now that’s going to get any touches. But of the number three running back candidates that played Friday night thought Owen Wright looked much better than rasheen Ali the fifth round pick Owen Wright was on the practice squad last year. Showed more juice he started. I thought that was telling as well. I think he’s the leader in the clubhouse for the number three spot again. I don’t think that’s very consequential. Wide receivers, zay flowers didn’t play. Of course, Bateman didn’t play. Of course, Aguilar didn’t play. Of course, didn’t see a whole lot, I mean, and I’ve kind of been saying that devontes Walker their fourth round pick.
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:56
How do you see anything in the passing game when you don’t have your quarterback and.
Luke Jones 14:59
And that’s the thing, I mean to me, it was a give take. I don’t think it was a lot from Josh Johnson. On the flip side, I don’t think the receivers did a whole lot to help them out. You know, tylen Wallace, to me, made the best play of the game for a wide receiver on that back shoulder throw. And tylen Wallace is a special teams guy, right? So I think his roster spot feels pretty secure. I will note that they’ve added Russell gage and Anthony Miller, two veteran wide receivers over the last week. To me, that’s an indication that they don’t love their young wide receivers, that you know, they were hoping maybe these guys would push to be the number four, number five, number six wide receiver. And I just you know, devontes Walker will make the team as a fourth round pick, and I think he can develop into something. But if you’re asking me yes or no, is he going to make an impact in 2024 I’m going to say no, right now, just based on what I’ve seen and based on the fact that the Ravens don’t use wide receivers much beyond the top two or three guys on the depth chart. So I think that’s where they are, tight end. I think that room is pretty settled, right? I think Kadir is miles been a nice story. You know, cadre sun in camp. Think he’s got a chance to maybe be on the practice squad, but their top three tight ends are decided. Ricard is the full back slash blocking tight end O line. I think good things from Roger Rosengarten. I’m starting to think he’s improved his chances of being the week one guy. I don’t think mccarry’s out of the conversation yet by any stretch, but I think we know long term where the Ravens want to go. There they want Rosengarten to be that guy. That doesn’t mean he’s going to be above average or even average.
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:34
Why wouldn’t mcrey be a starting guard,
Luke Jones 16:38
us guard? He’s not really physical enough. I think McCary, and it’s interesting. I know it sounds interesting saying that, because we came to know Patrick McCary when he replaced Matt scurra In 19 right? Sure,
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:49
in that rams game where they kick everybody’s ass. But I think when you look at McCary, I think first of all,
Luke Jones 16:58
it’s funny, because I’ve used this comparison, it’s like the school district has a substitute teacher that they love, because they could teach any grade level, and they can come in on a on a moment’s notice and do a solid job in that role. Well. Or else was Suarez, yeah, yeah, right, right, exactly. And you know you’re, you don’t. They’re not, they’re not your put they’re never your plan A, but they’re a really good plan B, just about anywhere, and I think that’s still where they want McCary to be. I do know from talking to people over the years, there’s concern about his back, if he would be a starting player every week, weekend and week out his back he’s got to manage like it’s not, don’t think it’s like, it’s not something that where he needs surgery, but it’s just he’s got a cranky back. Anyone can relate to that? Who has a who, hell yeah, exactly, exactly. But the point is, there’s maintenance there, and I think they feel, ideally, they’d love to keep him as the sixth man, right, the guy that can back up any position on the offensive line at a moment’s notice, carries so much game day value. Do I think McCary could still end up being the starting right tackle to open the year? Sure, I’m not ready to hand the job to Rose and garden, but I thought rose and garden played pretty well. I fact, I thought he played better than Voorhees at left guard. I thought he looked better than FAU le lay at right guard. But these are all young players, and they had their ups and downs and, you know, and all that. So I don’t think anything drastically changed based on what we saw on the O line. I think it’s still, you know, what we’ve been talking about. They’re working their way through it. You know, I think McCary is the higher floor play at right tackle, but I think they’d love it if Rosengarten could win that job sooner than later. I think he will be the right tackle at some point in 2024 even if it’s not week one ball Layla at right guard. I mean, there was good and bad. I still the eyeball test is so he’s so big and he doesn’t move the way that you typically think a right guard needs to move with their feet. But I don’t know John Harbaugh, when I asked him about it on Sunday, he and they’re, believe me, I can read John Harbaugh’s coach speak probably better than my Oh,
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:07
my God, between you and me, if we were in room, we would know he’s lying every time he lies. We would know when he’s being honest or trying to be honest. I mean, I haven’t been in a room with him in two years, and I sit here and watch it on video. Now, it’s a bigger tell when you’re not in the room with him, if you know him a little bit, and I know him a lot of it well.
Luke Jones 19:26
And you know, whether it’s us or anyone else that that’s covered, John Harbaugh for 15, you know, 16 years now, I think he was, you know, he was pretty effusive in his praise for Fauci I’m not buying that, but I’m buying that it was they saw enough positive that they’re going to continue working him at right guard. And I think they’re still, for whatever reason they they, they’re just not big believers in Ben Cleveland to be the right guard. But you know, he was complimentary of Ben Cleveland playing center on Friday night. You know, I think he’s a backup option there to me, Ben. Cleveland solidified his roster spot. If nothing else, you know, maybe he’s still in the mix at right guard. We’ll see. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:06
okay, so right now, lights on, I asked you this last week, here we go, who’s on the field, and we were three weeks out now, fifth of September, who’s on the field?
Luke Jones 20:15
I mean, obviously Stanley at left tackle, obviously Linder bomb at center, assuming Linder bombs healthy and, you know, this soft tissue, I don’t know if it’s neck or something like that. I mean, they’re just, they’re slow playing him. They’re trying to avoid him with contact, and that’s fine. Voorhees is going to be the left guard. Voorhees was up and down on Friday night upon some review. I think there were some mixed opinions on how he did some
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:36
time last week. You, you admitted that out loud. You said he’ll be the left guard. Yeah, I
Luke Jones 20:39
think he’s going to be the left guard. I and that was one of the bigger questions. Four months ago, right? Well, and let’s be clear, that doesn’t mean I think I’m necessarily confident he’s gonna be great or even good there, but of their options, I think he’s the guy. He’s the one they’re gonna give the chance to. Yeah, he’s gonna, he’s gonna get the ball and he’s gonna see if he runs with it, right guard and right tackle. I’m still not sure. I’m probably leaning a little more towards FAU Lele at right guard, based on, you know, this practice week. And I think it’ll be telling if he starts at right guard against Atlanta, back to back, starts there and Ben Cleveland still isn’t in the mix at right guard. I’m guessing it’s probably going to be him. Now, am I confident it’s going to be him for all 17 games, or anything like that. No, but I feel like maybe it’s starting to trend. Maybe I’m starting to believe that a little more based on what we saw on Friday night, because, you know, Cleveland played center, and then he was out. Like, to me, like, if Cleveland was really in the mix at right guard, he would have played some right guard then, but he didn’t. He played center, and then he was done, and right tackle. You know, a week ago, I think I said McCary to you, that’s still like, that’s still a coin flip for me. I don’t think they’re ready to just hand it to Rosengarten, but he is, ma he’s starting to make his push, though he’s getting more and more reps in practice. We saw him rotate with McCary in the game. So, you know, if you told me right now, rose and garden starts week one, I wouldn’t be surprised. But if you told me it’s McCary, I wouldn’t be surprised by that. Because I still think, you know, there’s still something to be said when you talk about young guys. We’ve talked about this a lot with with Orioles prospects over the last couple years, right there’s something to be said to start conservative, and then you can put them in the starting lineup, rather than put them out there when they’re not quite ready and then needing to bench them. And I don’t think that ruins a player. I don’t buy that either.
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:33
Jackson holiday doesn’t ruin covid Mayo, but, but there is a point where you want to give them a chance to compete, not put them out there underwater, and knowing they’re going to get beat or make mistakes, right? Exactly. So especially not against the chiefs in week one on the road, right, exactly. So that’s where you
Luke Jones 22:49
know, if you tell me that McCary still gets to nod, I’m not going to be surprised, or I’m not going to criticize that even, even even if Rosengarten takes over in week three, let’s say,
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:58
or if frozen gardens out there in the third set of downs in the second quarter and doing a shift, because they don’t want that here. That’s what they’ve and they do that in the secondary, and they do that with rotation all the time. We just don’t think of the offensive line as being a place you want to rotate. I’m
Luke Jones 23:11
so glad you brought that up, because I think especially after what happened last year. Now, that was out of necessity, because Ronnie Stanley and Moses weren’t 100% healthy, but it really lends itself to maybe that’s what we end up seeing early in the year McCary starts. He’s the vet. But then rose and garden, whether it’s every other series, every two series, every three series, however you want to do it, I definitely could see that being how they start the year, and then that gives you an opportunity that McCary can still work at other positions. If someone else gets hurt, he moves to center, moves to left tackle, whatever you know, however it plays out. And then you’re in a position where you know you’re not locking McCary into right tackle. And then suddenly, if someone gets hurt, then you’re putting a lesser backup at another spot, because McCarry is your right tackle. So, you know, I could still see that. So point is, offensive line, did we find any answers on Friday night? Not really, you know, again, maybe FAU Lele. Maybe, after seeing that it, you know, it looked okay, I didn’t love it, but he wasn’t bad there. So, you know, we’re just to me, you’re taking it, you’re kicking the can down the road another week. You’re evaluating so, you know that kind of covers the offense, defensively, nothing about the defensive line. I mean, the the main stage, you know, your top five, you know, Travis Jones played sparingly. Urban played sparingly. Matt abike didn’t play. Broderick, Washington, you know, was fine. You know, I want to see more from him overall than what we saw last year. But, you know, he’s not going to play as much if he doesn’t play well. I mean, we saw that last year. Michael Pierce set out linebacker, yeah, this was surprising. You know, other than Wiggins, probably my big. Biggest surprise on the defensive side was how much Trenton Simpson ended up playing. Now, Chris board got a concussion, and that impacted their the rotation as far as because you can’t, we know, you can’t just play 11 guys on defense, you know, for 60 minutes. I mean, even in a preseason game, you got to do a little bit of rotating and all that to keep everyone fresh, and you don’t want to get anyone hurt, but, but Simpson ended up playing into the third Well, deep into the third quarter, and I was a little surprised by that. I think overall good. Did have some bad run fits. I mean, he even said as much himself, and I went back and re watched the game. And yeah, there were some times where he was out of position, and Philadelphia was able to pop some runs. But I think the fact that he played as much as he did, and he played, I think it was 62 snaps, which, if you’d asked me going into the night, I would have thought, okay, maybe he plays half the game 35 Well, I
Nestor J. Aparicio 25:54
wouldn’t think you’ll play 62 snaps in in on September 5, right?
Luke Jones 25:58
I mean, TBD, right. I mean, a lot of it depends on how much sub package they’re using, all that. I think that’s very that’s a very legitimate point there. But I think part of that is he played so little last year, and I think there’s probably a message that they want to deliver. One, they want them to get reps. Two, he handled the green dot, you know, so he was getting the calls from Zach work as rocon Smith didn’t play, obviously, so an experience for him doing that. And I think there’s, there’s probably a little bit of a message to a second year player who’s talented but really, really young, that you’re not just handing him the job there. Make no mistake, there’s been no evidence whatsoever all spring and all summer that there’s any competition there. Trenton Simpson is going to be the weak side inside linebacker, whether he’s playing three downs or not. He’s going to be out there on the field for at least two thirds of the time. You know, maybe they’ll go more dime and and do what they did a few years ago with and have Kyle Hamilton play some dime linebacker. But I think with with Simpson, you know, there was probably a combination of variables. There. Is he going to play as much these next two games, we’ll see, but I thought he handled that pretty well overall. You know, outside linebacker, they just didn’t have guys out there. I mean, I would have liked to see more from tavius Robinson, but they had Joe Evans, who’s an undrafted rookie. He played 68 snaps on the edge, didn’t, didn’t show anything that tells you he’s going to make the team, but he was just out there because they didn’t have many guys, and they had CJ Ravenel, who’s more of a five technique defensive end, who, you know, I think, has a good chance to be on the practice squad. He was playing edge. So they need to, you know, they need to get a dis Isaac on the field, who, you know, is finally back practicing after a hamstring that limited him all spring. And they need to get a job, oh, cleared for live game snaps, because they’ve got to develop these guys. Because it can’t just be OA and Van Noy. You know, those guys are going to run out of gas if they have to play 60 plus snaps a game. So they’ve got to find some depth there. And there was really nothing that jumped out at the edge on Friday night secondary. Thought our Darius Washington played well. I thought to Marion Williams played well. We already mentioned Wiggins, you know, Jalen armor, Davis is probably their number four outside corner, you know, I you know, he didn’t have a great showing, but he’s had a pretty good spring and summer. So when
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:27
I hear that, when I hear it literally given, where Humphrey is given, where Wiggins is given, what injuries happen to these guys when the other teams, Derek Henry runs them over, or what would happen, leg injuries, things that just hamper speed in any way. Those guys don’t have to be banged up to not be able to play or play at that level. When I hear number four, number four becomes number three, pretty quick. It becomes number two, you know. So, like I the depth of it, to me, is the story you know used to you wrote several seasons. That feels like you spent the first decade here talking about the secondary and the depth of the secondary. It’s, it’s the thing to watch after the offensive line for me, because I don’t think you can learn anything about the pass rush during this time of the year.
Luke Jones 29:12
Well, I just don’t know how much you’re going to get out of and that’s with the way they play, the way they produce pressure, they scheme pressure. I mean, they did that last year. You know, they didn’t, they didn’t lead the NFL and sacks last year, because they had the best standalone man on man four, man front. They they schemed it. Now, Matt abigay, tremendous. And Clowney was really good for them last year. But it was a lot of it was scheme driven, right? I mean, the simulated pressures all that. And they’ll continue to do that. We saw that Zach or flicking blitzing from the nickel with the Marion Williams. At one point he got a sack. You know, they had Daryl Worley did it and knocked down a pass. Yeah, to
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:51
your point, it’s not flat out great football players. It’s putting football players in positions to make a play. Yeah? And I. Guess that you need both. It takes a period of time to say that, but they’re all capable of making a play, but very few of them are capable. Maybe Mata BK has some special ability he does, he does. And roquan Smith would have some special but not on every play. And part of their special ability is being at the alignment assignment technique and taking advantage of if they have to beat one guy in front of them, they can do that. The idea is to not have to make them beat a guy in front of them. The idea is to be smarter and put an extra head on the ball and having somebody out unblock making a play or shedding blocks to make plays to your point, it’s not all about mono imano. We’re going to make this happen because we have better football players. They have pretty good football players in the other side, especially the Bengals and the browns, have really good position play. You know, the teams we’ve played against we play against. It’s not that we always have the better football players, but maybe this brings me to my point about my homes in the past Russian I was a little flippant, like, I don’t care about the past. Rush in these games, you’re probably not going to get the mahomes much on September 5 anyway. You know they, they play a style where you’re not sacking him six, seven. You’re not going to show off, um, you’re going to try to scheme up ways to neutralize that, because he’s going to get rid of the ball before. You know, Matt abika is going to get to him. But certainly wherever van Noy or whatever, first down, second down, the kind of packages you’re going to put in there, they’re not going to be in third and 16 with Patrick mahomes running for his life the way, let’s hope the Raiders are the following week, right? Like it’s going to be a different kind of way you play it against Patrick mahomes, which is the only thing we’re going to be paying attention to the next three weeks is, how do you beat him? It’s not having the greatest pass rush in the world and thinking you’re going to get to him, because I don’t think that’s the game three weeks from now. Well, and
Luke Jones 31:56
that’s, I mean, historically, he’s killed the Blitz. So you’ve got to look at you’ve got to approach it differently, I think with Patrick mahomes, and I think this really applies for how the Ravens want to play, in general. For me, it really starts with the back end moving forward. And I think what you do is you have different looks. And you mentioned the secondary they have, they built for as much as I was concerned about the depth in their secondary in March and April, I think, when you’ve added a Wiggins, when you’ve added an Eddie Jackson at safety, when you’ve, you know, we’ll see about TJ Tampa. You know, the fourth round pick, he had sports hernia surgery, you know, can he be a factor as a number four, number five corner that you hope you don’t have to play, but if you’re in that position and he has to play, you know, can he be okay for you? We’ll see. But they’ve got depth. Well, that’s where they were. Brandon Stevens two years ago, sure, exactly, exactly. I mean, you know, Jalen armor Davis might be that guy this year. To your you know, to your point, he’s their number four outside corner. Now, you know, because you have Humphrey and Stevens as your starters, Wiggins is going to be in the a factor in our
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:59
four is he’s four up from six because they feel like they’ve made him better. And that’s that. That’s their whole that’s the hardball system, that’s the cost system, right? And I
Luke Jones 33:11
would but I would also say with armor Davis, I think he’s always talent wise, been a four. It’s got to stay on the field. Though he’s had injuries the last couple years, that’s been the big problem with him. But the point I was making about their defense philosophy, how it pertains to Patrick mahomes and the chiefs, it to me, it really starts in the back end of the defense with showing different looks, hiding your coverage, rolling your coverage, doing things pre snap, and then looking like something else after the snap. All of that forces Patrick mahomes To do what, hold the ball an extra second, an extra half second to process. And look, Patrick mahomes will still beat you sometimes, right? And we saw this. If someone had told you that Kansas City would only score 17 points in the AFC Championship Game, going into that game, you would have said, the ravens are going the Super Bowl, right? So again,
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:02
you give me the wrong week on that, because I would have told you, if you scored, you have two runs or three runs against the Rangers. You you beat them in the playoffs. You never know,
Luke Jones 34:10
right? I mean, yeah, but, but. But the point is, more often than not, if you hold Patrick mahomes and the chiefs to 17, you’re feeling really good about beating
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:17
them. I would tell you right now, if they hold them to 17 on September 5, I’ll take probably beat
Luke Jones 34:21
them. Sure. I would agree with you on that. That doesn’t mean they’re going to do it again, but they’ll try, but they’ll run the ball at least four times. But so much of what they do is just about deception. I mean, it really is. And you know, you’re going to see, obviously, Seattle’s going to do this with Mike McDonald being there, and we’ll see what their defense looks like. That
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:41
was Rex’s game from his old man. That’s the end of everything they did here was having players really smart, going back to that oh six defense. That was phenomenal we had here, and when Billick was still coaching the team, back to oh one and Marvin, it’s just sort of like they’re not going to know what we’re going to do. And when we do it, we’re going to do it and we’re and we’re going to confuse their quarterback. 80% of the quarterbacks in the league at any point over the last 30 years can be confused. It’s the 20% that were usually a little better at the line of scrimmage, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Roethlisberger, when necessary. That made it a little more difficult. But this defense is feasted against bad, bad quarterbacks and and will again and will again. Nine to nine to 11 of these games this year will be against bad quarterbacks, depending on who’s injured and who’s not. And it’s in those six or seven games that this makes all the difference in the world, in that communication level. That’s how they almost beat the chiefs. That’s how they helped them 17 last year, because they’re because they’re really good at it. They’re really good well. And
Luke Jones 35:45
I think the difference, and you made a good point, because you’re kind of talking about the Rex Ryan era, as far as what the Ravens defense was then, obviously, wink Martindale was someone who had ties to the Ryan family. But what we’ve seen since transitioning from Martindale to Mike McDonald, and I think what you’re going to see continue with Zach Gore is still using the deception, still doing all the pre snap stuff, those amoeba fronts, where you have seven or eight guys at the line of scrimmage, and you don’t know if everyone’s coming, everyone’s dropping into coverage. You know chances, most of the time, it’s a few of them are going to drop, and then you might have a Four man rush, but you don’t know which four it is, but
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:23
the Don shule and Tom Landry make of this, right, like literally.
Luke Jones 36:27
I mean it, it’s all about innovation. I mean it all I mean, but what we’ve seen, and this is where the Ravens have adjusted, under Rex Ryan, under wink Martindale, they really leaned on their corners to do a whole lot more of playing on an island and playing a lot more man and single high and all those types of things, which was awesome when you got to the quarterback, but when your pressure and the things you did up front didn’t work, which it’s not going to work 100% of the time, it left you vulnerable to giving up big plays. What we’ve seen now is they’ve kind of moved to like a little bit of a hybrid, where, yeah, they’re still going to blitz and still pick their spots to be more aggressive, but now it’s more like the sim pressures and the pre snap deception, but you still drop into too high coverage. Now it might be, might not be the two safeties. It might be one of the safeties, one of the other safeties comes up, like Kyle Hamilton, and one of your corners drops into deep, you know, deep half of the field. But, you know, they play a little more conservative, little more zone on the back end, but they do that with deception and pre snap movement and rolling coverage and changing things up and just really trying to confuse you, but they leave themselves more outs on the back end, so that if you don’t get to Patrick mahomes with him holding the ball an extra half second. He’s the chances are he’s not going to torch you for a 60 yard touchdown. It might be okay. He might move the chains. He might move, you know, get a first down, but it’s not going to break, break your back in that spot. So I think that’s where you’ve seen the transition with how they play defense, and I think that’s going to continue. I’m fascinated to see how Nate Wiggins is going to be acclimated incorporated in this offense. I mean, Humphrey and Stevens are going to start the year as the outside corners, but what we saw from Wiggins on Friday night was just an example of this kid’s going to play. He’s going to play sooner than later. I don’t think he’s going to play every snap, but he’s gonna be in the mix, especially now with Arthur millet hurt and, you know, not having that more conventional nickel that you feel good about.
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:29
So let
Luke Jones 38:32
late September, probably maybe early October. I mean, had had the knee scoped. It’s not a season ending thing, but, you know, it’s a weapon you want against mahomes. You’d like to have them, sure. But I’d also say, if there’s one spot that they have some wiggle room. Kyle Hamilton plays nickel. Marlin Humphrey can play nickel. A Darius Washington, we forget, started the year as the nickel last year before he got hurt. You know, to Marion Williams, I I’m not ready to say I have confidence in him, but he’s another guy that plays nickel, so they’ve got some different options there and some different looks. And I don’t think they want like, like, let’s be clear, I don’t think they’re by design. They want Arthur millet to be the exclusive nickel. I think they want, they want an ensemble cast playing the nickel, because it all depends. You know, if Travis Kelsey is lining up in the slot, as he’s apt to do for Kansas City, then you want Kyle Hamilton covering him, not Arthur millet. So you know, that’s where it makes sense for him. Other times where it’s a more physical receiver, you might want Marlon Humphrey there. If it’s a more traditional, smaller slot receiver, then yeah, Arthur MILLETTE or ardarius Washington makes more sense there. So, you know you want they’ve talked about this a lot, and I started talking to you about this, you know this, this was something that you know became a buzz term in the football analytics community, 567, years ago, but positionless defense on the back end. And what that means is, yes, you’re going to have four defensive backs or five. Five defensive backs or six defensive backs, but you don’t want to just fit everyone into, you know, this specialized role, and that’s what they do. And they’re the outside corner on the right side of the field and and then your corner on the other side is the boundary corner, and you’ve got a traditional nickel and you’ve got a free safety and a strong safe. No, they they want those to be interchangeable parts, where you know Kyle Hamilton’s a perfect example of this. We see Kyle Hamilton play either safety spot. We see Kyle Hamilton play nickel. We’ve seen Kyle Hamilton play linebacker. We’ve seen Kyle Hamilton rush from the edge. I mean, he he literally can play six different spots. Now, can everyone do that? No, but other guys on your defense can play two or three different spots on any given play. So again, so much of this is about what confusing the quarterback and forcing them to hold the ball and then in turn, that allows your pass rush, which isn’t the most dominant one on one four man conventional front, if you try to play that way, but if you confuse a fullback or tight end, or just the quarterback holds the ball. Yes, eventually you’ll get there, or you’ll force an incompletion. So, you know, it’s very it’s very much a collective defense, and that’s not going to change. I mean, that that was the case last year. Yes, Kyle Hamilton’s an All Pro. Yes, Justin Mata Bucha was amazing last year. Yes, roquan Smith is a first team all Pro and yes, they have some other guys on that defense who have been Pro Bowl players in the past, like Marlon Humphrey, but it really is by design intended to be that the sum is greater than the parts, right? And I think that’s how you have a defense that led the league in sacks last year, when you can go back, and anyone can go back right now to our website and go and pull up conversations from you and me last August, and we talked about it over and over, what about the pass rush? What about the pass rush? And they led the league in sacks. Now, Clowney and Van Noy coming in had a big part to do with that, but it’s still they’d be the first to tell you the Raven scheme had so much to do with that, and I think they’re confident, once again, even with some of their personnel losses that they endured this off season, that they’re going to remain an elite defense. Do I think they’re going to lead the league in sacks, points allowed, in turnovers again? You know that triple crown thing they did last year? No, I don’t, because I think it’s extremely, extremely difficult to do something like that again, but I fully expect this defense to be a top five defense again. And yeah, they don’t have quite as much depth at some of these positions as they did a year ago. And that’s, you know, I’m a little concerned about the edge rush, you know, outside linebacker I am. But at the same time, they have depth at other spots. And I do think Zach Gore, there’ll be some hiccups, there’ll be some growing pains early on. There were with Mike McDonald two years ago, but I think Zach or is going to be, I think he’s going to be perfectly fine. And again, so much of this is institutional knowledge. This is a raven system that’s going to continue and carry on. And you know, you still have a lot of good football players, and you have elite talent at each level. You do that, that all adds up to, assuming you stay relatively healthy, what should be a really good defense, especially as the year goes on,
Nestor J. Aparicio 43:14
$600 million of our taxpayer money to move the media up into the corner. How’s the black wing? Did you did you get to see the black wing? Or no, you’ll never I
Luke Jones 43:26
walked by the the old media entrance that is now the black wing entrance. And yeah, everyone looked excited to be there, but yeah, little bit, little bit of a long distance view compared to what it used to be. But we’ll adjust. I’ll upgrade my pair of binoculars that I have that I’ve been using. I need, need to upgrade those, but it’ll be okay. Still can see the field and what was a pretty, pretty forgettable preseason game on Friday night, as most of them are, if we’re being honest, you know, I’m
Nestor J. Aparicio 43:57
writing letters to, you know, current management and ownership of the two sports teams in a few weeks. And you know, this is a point where, if David Modell were still alive, I could joke with him and and say, you know, those, those victory arches, did not produce a victory last weekend. So, you know, the the media now sits, just let everybody know that you’re sitting under the victory arches that Roy summerhoff once came onto my airwaves 28 years ago and talked about personal seat licenses and poor suckers licenses and and all that stuff. So part of the original marketing was victory arches. So gotta get that right. Luke Jones will be under the big W. There’s a old movie reference for you. It’s a wild, wild, wild, wild world, wacky, wacky world, whatever that one was with Phil Silvers in it, under the big W. So we’ll try to get a big W. Harbaugh didn’t take it too, too bad, though, like he doesn’t lose in August much, right?
Luke Jones 44:56
Well, they’ve lost three preseason games in a row now. So. Suddenly they had the long winning streak. No, it doesn’t matter. It’s fine. One last thing I just wanted to add, because it was the one thing from the game that I didn’t touch. I went through all the position groups. I think I gave him more than a thumbnail on each position group and observations, but I felt bad for Emory Jones. I mean, he’s our fourth string quarterback came into the game at the very end of regulation, and he fumbles the ball. I mean, fourth stringers, they don’t they’re not guaranteed to even get preseason minutes. He’s obviously not making the team. That might be his only shot to play at a preseason game, and he gets stripped of the ball, and it leads to the Eagles kick at a field goal. So I felt bad for him for a moment. I mean, it’s kind of
Nestor J. Aparicio 45:42
like when meatloaf gave me a chance to sink Paradise by the dashboard light. I had my I have one chance. I had one chance, and I didn’t get it right.
Luke Jones 45:49
I screwed, right? So, so I felt bad for him, but it’s a pretty who cares? I mean, that Nate Wiggins is okay and is only gonna miss a little bit of time with the shoulder. It’s not something that’s gonna keep them out week one beyond that, nothing else of consequence. You know, even even the O line stuff, which is important, and they still need to figure that out. Those preseason games, as we have explained over and over and over, those are just parts of the entire evaluation. Those are snapshots. Those games, do they hold a little more weight than maybe one practice might maybe wait.
Nestor J. Aparicio 46:24
Nobody wants to come to these games either. Do they? Yeah, oh, sure. I mean, it’s, yeah, it used to be, I mean, but people used to go a little bit more. It’s really, I
Luke Jones 46:33
will give you. I wrote this at Baltimore positive.com I’ve even, I’ve talked, I’ve shared this with people in the organization, not anyone that has any clout to actually make a change at the league level.
Nestor J. Aparicio 46:44
Be careful. If you share too much, they’ll take your press pass. I mean that that’s
Luke Jones 46:47
true. I will say this. I think what the NFL should do with the preseason games, and obviously, at some point, whether it’s two years from now, three years from now, five years from now, they’re going to 18 games. We know that that’s it’s just a matter of when. So presumably, at that point, they’ll go to two preseason games. What I would do, because we have seen all these teams as a result of not playing their starters anymore, they do what joint practices. So what I would do for preseason games, I would rebrand them as preseason events, or just call it a pre season scrimmation scrimmage. What I would do? I would do a controlled scrimmage for my starters. That way everyone gets to see Lamar Jackson and Jalen Hurts. You can put them in their game uniform start quarterbacks. You’d want to put in red, because you’re not going to hit the quarterback. So you do that, but you get to see them. You know? You get to see them make plays and run around and throw passes all that controlled scrimmage for the starters, and then do a 30 minute game for any players that you want to give live game action. Can
Nestor J. Aparicio 47:51
I say something out loud that I’ve said a million times that Chad Steele knows this? I hated going out to Westminster. I hated it more when they put it in the building out there from a just kids screaming on it, just it’s and they’re trying to get work done, and we’re trying to, like, figure things out and get to know some players, which they don’t want us to know, the players, which is the whole purpose of being there, to some degree, because you’re disseminating very little, as we pointed out with stats for interceptions in July for third string quarter. It’s nuts, but you would say, from an experiential standpoint, and I know you’re private and public feelings about you get there before the fans, you don’t hit the traffic, and all the stuff that made Westminster a little bit fun, but awful, but I did get some good pancakes out of it when was in Westminster, the practices are so much more fun to go to than to go to the game, right? That’s, yeah, that would be your point, right? Like all of these practices, at least if Lamar shows up signs autographs, this shows up signs autographs, it’s better than whatever Friday night was like, the rethinking of you being out at these practices 20 times and seen a couple 1000 people. What do they have out there? They have 2000 people a day.
Luke Jones 49:00
Um, I about 1000 I think, is the most they can do, 1000
Nestor J. Aparicio 49:03
people, whatever it is, there’s a vibe to it and an exclusivity, which all. Mr. Bucha loves exclusivity because they’re inclusive, they’re they’re dei except their E, the ease exclusive, not inclusive. Ask anybody, it makes it into the black wing. But to your point, to have that kind of an event where people get something when they show up, instead of whatever Friday was, which is, by the way, tell the nice lunch ladies. And this is a good plug for wise markets. That the my favorite thing of preseason, other than Thelma and Louise 25 years ago, and making it interesting up at 513, when we all used to go to the preseason games, was the gold watermelon that we used to get in the press spot. I would not know about gold watermelon if it weren’t for ravens preseason games. So please tell the beautiful women who were always the best part of my Raven experience, where the people the food’s terrible in general, that’s not their fault. I. They were always the nicest people in the entire stadium ever. I missed them, and I missed their gold watermelon, but I did get my own gold watermelon, and wise to speak, my wife picked it up, so I have that. But I mean, the experience of preseason, I don’t miss that dude. You know that I walked six blocks to go to the games, and I would get over there and say, What? Like, it’s just and that’s when they played some of the guys, right? This whole thing’s a mess. It really is. And from the optics of Chad Steele thinking he’s a brand manager, as he espouse to me, so manage the brand, fix this. This is a that you’ve made everything else awesome about everything else. This is the one thing they’ve never really been able to figure out well. And
Luke Jones 50:40
I just think, and look a critic, you know, someone in opposition to what I just posed would say, well, the chiefs are playing their starters. Well, Marquis Brown got hurt, and looks like he’s probably not going to be ready week one. And you know that already they’re they’re losing a player that will matter going up against the Ravens defense. Compared it to a car crash, wow. Yeah, well, Tyree kill had the same thing, like, five years ago. I want to say, you know, when he was still in Kansas City, and, you know, he missed close to a month. So, I mean, it’s, it’s one of those, they say it’s one of those injuries that is, it will, will heal and be fine, but it’s one of those injuries that, if you misdiagnose it right off the bat, it can really be a problem. So sounds like he got good medical care and all that. So, so good for him. You know, I have no ill will towards Hollywood Brown, you know, I think you know he, he was amongst their first round picks. Was better than some others. But anyway, back to the back to the preseason proposal, you would, if you would just move it to the structure that I pose, which is, you do a controlled scrimmage for your starters. It, it allows you to have a joint practice right in the stadium Right, right when you’re having this fake game that no one’s going to anymore, because people you know the gig is up. Everyone knows that the Ravens don’t play their starters anymore, and you’re not going to see Lamar Jackson. You’re lucky if he’s even going to go through warm ups, let alone if he’s going to play. So instead, you open up your stadium, you sell tickets, and at the very least you can say, You know what, assuming Lamar Jackson didn’t tweak his ankle the day before or something like that, he’s going to scrimmage. Because in these joint practices, these coaches love getting that work against another team, but it’s a controlled environment, so you minimize, you don’t eliminate, you never eliminate, but you minimize the injury risk, and you still allow your fans to see Lamar or to see Jalen Hurts on the other side. You know, we didn’t see him in Friday night’s game. You know, one of the better quarterbacks in football. So you do that, it becomes something of more value for your starting players and your coaching staff. And then you still do the 30 minute game. If you want to see what the young guys look like in an uncontrolled game environment, you can still do that. So to me, that makes sense. You can incorporate some autographs in that with fan, you know, young fans and kind of make it, you know, kind of make it a hybrid training camp practice slash this fake preseason game that has outlived its usefulness from an entertainment standpoint, let’s say there’s still value to evaluate the young players. That’s why I said you can still do a 30 minute game, have them play a half, but then have your starters do a controlled scrimmage where there’s some competition. Yes, you can protect your quarterback, yes, you can protect players from tackling all the way to the ground. But I think that would make so much more sense moving forward for the NFL, with these preseason games, you just rebrand them as preseason events, preseason showcase events featuring the Baltimore Ravens and the Philadelphia Eagles. There you go, sell tickets to it. You can add some charity elements to it, and it’ll be so much better. I’m not saying it’ll be great. It’s not the same as a regular season game. You’re never replicating that because there are no stakes to it, but I think it would be so much more productive for the teams themselves, and certainly a product that would be more entertaining. To me, it’s a no brainer to do it. Will they do it? Probably not. But I just, you know, these 60 minute pre season games at this point, these three hour preseason games, you know, you don’t need that much evaluation for only the young guys. So let’s, let’s add a scrimmage element to it and put a little more value back into these if you’re going to continue to charge folks to to go to these games and get a lousy product in the process
Nestor J. Aparicio 54:32
loose, working hard for the money all week long. He is Baltimore, Luke. Add on the interwebs. He will be in Owings Mills. He will be downtown Orioles, at home, taking on the Nationals. He can only be in one place at one time, and I don’t really exist as a media member, so we’ll be covering whatever he can cover. This week, I’m going to be down at Mako in Ocean City, chatting with our senators and our leaders and electeds and lots of business leaders as well doing what I call Baltimore positive. Stay with us. Bye.
