With the Major League Baseball Winter Meetings in full swing in Nashville, Luke Jones and Nestor wonder what John Angelos and the Orioles offseason intentions really are beyond the franchise maximizing lease leverage against Governor Wes Moore and the citizens of Maryland and the fans who have supported the team. Oh, and there’s money and the pitching and tens of millions to be spent in free agency.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
satellite dish, talking, year, baseball, harvey, kyle gibson, point, week, money, orioles, lease, day, games, signed, spend, win, players, john, henderson, free agency
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
wn st Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. We are a positively. It’s baseball season here. It’s baseball at Christmas. I’m waiting for my invitation from the Angeles family for the Winter Carnival. But instead in lieu of that, we’re just gonna have crabcakes I’m going to be at State Fair in Gainesville, on Tuesday. Where am I safe here? I gotta get a new state Fisher. Although this one fits nice. It’s just getting a little worn. It’s got the 12 chairs of Catonsville. This is like before the plague. I’ve had this. This is a pre played shirt. So Evan, I’m coming for you get well soon. We’ll be there on Tuesday. That is Colossus includes Baltimore for will be joining us Bill Colby joining us working on Tom kalsa was a little under the weather could not join us and could not partake in the Maryland lottery giveaway and Hollywood casino on Friday. They do smell like gingerbread. I had the Oh snaps I have the unwrap the cash top prize five grand and I also have the peppermint pay out which paid out 20 bucks at the bar in Hollywood casino in Perry Ville on Friday. Great guests up there did a great turn for the Cecil feline Cecil County feline Association had two beautiful guests on talking about kitties. We also had so awful football picks for me and Christian Orton. Amy Brennan. We also spent Thursday at at gertrudes where we also had Maryland lottery winners and I wore my fun when donation floppy hat. We talked about Jiffy Lube, multi care, we did all that stuff with Dan Rodricks who show open just we it’s almost sold out sold out. There’s like one ticket left for next weekend. So hurry out to get that but I talked to Dan about Baltimore and they got mad at me about stadiums, journalism and reporting. So we went back and forth and then I gave him a nice, I gave Dan Rodrick Sex, drugs and rock and roll all in one package. So you’re gonna want to listen to that. You’re gonna want to watch that all the brought to you by the Maryland lottery and our friends at the window nation. And if you could also John shields from gertrudes was on. We’re related. I’m not really related to anybody but I’m related to John shields at gertrudes. It. It’s like all in the family. So it’s a really, really fun week. Last week as we began at Coco’s with risk SIG. And Ron Cass, you’re going to be hearing all of that this week, we’re going to be given away lottery tickets. We’re going to be talking about things we’re going to be talking about by we certainly had a lot of football to talk about a ton talk football with Dennis, I talked football with Luke, but it’s a little bit of baseball. We got it. We got to sneak a little bit of baseball in here. Look, my um, my baseball background in loving baseball. I love baseball so much that back in the 1980s When my dad will be lost the football team. And the Orioles had just signed Fred Lynn and thanasi and Lee lacy Alright, so I’m giving you a little little pressure point here and show out to Belize about to get run out for Earl Weaver again. So my dad left his job at the point he retired 1984 had a lot of time on his hands and I had a baby and I’m 16 years old, and I’m working at the paper at the news American. And I said to my dad, we gotta get a satellite dish, man. Like we gotta we gotta get a dish because I want to be able to see all the games. Pop I’m gonna be I’m gonna be a sports journalist. One day, I’m gonna own a radio station for a quarter of a century and have a Super Bowl winning coach as a partner. We’re gonna get a football team after you die pop. But in the meantime, I need a satellite dish. My dad went out to Baltimore County had to get a zoning variance to get a satellite dish and you know where I grew up Luke little, little row house and right. So we went out in 1985 and you get a satellite dish, and we need to find some way to put a satellite dish up and into the kitchen walks a man named Harvey Meyers. Harvey’s big, jolly fellow big belly laugh. I put a satellite this is a pretty good Harvey. I put a satellite dish up on there. You just got to put up on the roof and you pointed at the satellites. And next thing I know we got a satellite dish on the roof. Everybody in the neighborhood looked like the Jetsons. It’s like clearly five like How old were you? Were this many you were you were this many like right? You were months not years. Right. And summer baby was born in 83. So two, yeah. So summer of 85. Okay, we get this satellite dish put up and we have everything. And the satellite would have newscasters dropping F bombs off camera because they thought they were off camera. They were off the air, but they were still on the satellite. So the satellite was an amazing thing. And this is back before Roger Goodell and Paul tangley who understood cable television and pay per view and NFL packages and dishes and all direct TVs. So 1985 were the only people we know with a satellite dish, right? Like literally, we were first in technology. My dad loves sports. He loved having college basketball. Every baseball game was on that was televised. So when Chuck Thompson and Brooks were calling the game for Texas, we could pull it in on the satellite. And I get here Chuck and Scott Garceau and Brooks just BS in between innings like seriously, I heard I vividly vividly remember Bob Costas doing Toronto. Oh Blue Jays baseball in October of 1985. I came home from college at Dundalk Community College, afternoon games. Let it be playing the Royals have to think about the 85. Probably it was Ross Saberhagen, right to 85 the Blue Jays are playing from exhibition stadiums cold as hell, right? It’s Toronto, they still hadn’t won anything. And I remember Bob Costas, like just talking off the mic between innings because we had the satellite dish, right. So Harvey Meyers put this and obviously, I mean, you know, the real reason I got it, the Houston Oilers, right? It allowed me to watch every Houston Oilers preseason game in August. I remember watching Houston Oilers New Orleans Saints preseason game on that satellite dish and on we got that dish in July. I tell you because I remember the first things I watched on right. So I watched Oilers preseason football on a satellite dish, because there was no there was a book with listings but it wasn’t accurate. Like a satellite book is a big fat book. And it came every month like that subscribe for 10 bucks or whatever. Let him five bucks then. And we watch sports. We love sports so much. We had a satellite dishes man named Harvey Meyers puts a satellite dish in and it worked. It was beautiful. I got my job at the paper. My dad had a satellite dish. I would go to my parents house just to watch the satellite even when I left when I lived on game Street. We didn’t have cable in the city. The city screwed up now. We didn’t even have cable. I had at seven eight years of cable I moved to Kane Street. No cable, like moving to China. Like literally like moving to North Korea. So anyway, that was in the 80s I had Bon Jovi I had CDs girls Amberjacks thanks for good don’t don’t cry for me. Even though the oil stunk, but 85 Harvey puts this dish in I’ll see Harvey I don’t know from Harvey 1992 I’m knocking door to door my hair was long like my hair was outlives this long and it 92 Hammer Jack’s Eddie Vetter the whole deal, right? I go into the Emerald Tavern in Harford because I every day on my life I got in my car and I drove all day. I drove every road knocking on every single door meeting every business owner and saying, I’m the guy who was at the paper who did the scoreboard who was the music critic who was the hockey guy. Sometimes people knew me sometimes they didn’t I was on AM 1230 Dave Rosenberg, who was teaching me how to sell. I walk into the Emerald Tavern on the side door in the kitchen. And Harvey’s in the kitchen. I’m like, sort of remember you. And I’m 23 it’s 1992 and Harvey’s in the kitchen. Hi, I’m a guy to purchase satellite dish shop. Everybody told me to go to the Emerald tavern because he had 15 satellite dishes up. Dude. Emerald tavern looked like a science experiment. Ask anybody. He was the only one in town, the only one in town that put the football games on on Sundays. He had every game get every TV. Harvey was the NFL ticket before there was an NFL ticket. So 1992 We have no football team. You’re seven years old. I’m an oiler, not I see Harvey Harvey gave me $75 A week in cash to sponsor nasty Nestor in the sports forum. And he said hi, you’re a DJ wants to come out here on Sunday or Thursday and play some music. So I would come out Sunday Thursday paid me 50 bucks on Thursday on Thursday, and he paid me 60 bucks on Sunday. So I made $195 a week and I was think I was making $500 a week at the paper maybe four hours a week, and it replaced half my salary. And I had to pay for my airtime and whatnot. But that’s how the this whole thing began was in 9092 9394. So I went out there and watch Warren Moon 9293 94 The Browns backers, Steelers fans, Bill Saul would sit at the bar and he was a salty old linebacker who was sort of a bouncer and sort of Chef and sort of a bartender and sort of an old football player. He’s got all the above. He’s from Pittsburgh, and he would sit at the end of the bar. And it was an old coke bar was it was a big gambling bar. If you want to read about potty, have you ever been to a party party?
8Luke Jones 09:10
I have not. Well, you know, if
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:14
you’ve been to a party party, that’s all I’m going to tell you if you’re ever at the Emerald Tavern on Sunday. So you wonder how this wackiness happens. We lost Harvey Harvey went on all my road trips, Harvey and I ripped it up in Vancouver and 94 at the Grey Cup. I’ll never ever go to Vancouver without thinking Harvey and being at Stanley’s on Stanley. You can Google that. And the great cop and Harvey was at Whiskey Joe’s my wife knew Harvey Harvey is married to Greg. Greg Landry’s wife is Harvey’s daughter from Towson transfer. So big love to Harvey and an rip to Harvey as we began to talk baseball because Harvey loved the Orioles too. So I didn’t say much about that. But I did tell a little baseball story there about 1985 and how much I love baseball and Bob Costas but these winter meetings are your Luke and we got it Ronnie Stanley on the brain and Lamar on the brain and match the effort on the brain and Cooper cup. Hakuna Chua because I like saying his name, you know, the winter meetings and baseball, this is the seed. And I hope they have a strategy. Look, I don’t you know what I mean? Michael is smart man. SigmaTel smart man. They don’t have a lease and I’m going to continue that. And I know you don’t want to go down that river so much because you just don’t but I am going to begin with they don’t have a lease with you. And say these winter meetings we’re watching all of this and activity and by the time people hear this, maybe Dylan ceases and Oriole and Colton Couser isn’t and Justin, or Westberg, isn’t it? I don’t know, Jordan Westbrook I, but this offseason and these winter meetings, and I’ve lamented this, and I’ve talked to you about this. This place is so mismanaged, it’s so poorly run. It’s so not fronted right, it’s so has never been led, right. They don’t have a lease, that’s all he’s concerned about is built in his $400 million, and how he can steal this land when the team’s gone. And like, I’m not convinced that they’re going to have the financial wherewithal or the decision making at the top to strategize this in a way. And I do worry about where Mike Elias and his happiness meter is when he needs to do ish. And knows he can knows that they could not have the financial wherewithal to do it. And, John, this doesn’t see it that way. Yeah, look,
Luke Jones 11:25
I’m not gonna sit here and argue with you on that point. I mean, this is a 101 win team that has so much going for it. And this should be the time of year where and where they are, financially, all of that. I mean, this should be the stars aligning to have that kind of an offseason where look at and I’m not even even talking about increasing the payroll to 200 million or 250 mil or anything crazy, just increasing it because it’s been so low for the better part of the last five, six years to make go out and make a couple really significant moves. And instead, you’re kind of left waiting. And let’s be clear, it’s not as though there has been a ton of movement overall. And we’ve come to expect this I mean, Major League Baseball’s free agency is not like the NFL, it’s not like the NBA where you see guys move instantly. I mean, we’re still waiting to find out where Shohei Ohtani is gonna land. You know, it’s certainly not gonna be in Baltimore. But the point is, that things just in general, don’t move as quickly when it comes to baseball. But you look at where this team is, it’s not as though they have major surgery to do to this roster, right? I mean, you’re talking about landing a starting pitcher that you’d like to think is in the top half of the rotation. Uh, certainly, they need to add a bullpen piece or two that you could pencil into the back end whether, you know, I’m not even talking Josh Hader, but just a high leverage guy, you know, at least one if not two. But beyond that, you’re talking about a roster that you love. You’re talking about a team that has so many good young players, that there are so many different things that they could do to make this team better. And that’s not to say they won’t, but boy, you’re you’re left here waiting. And it’s kind of at least where I am at this point in time Nestor, where I’m just I’m not holding my breath for something to happen until it happens, right? Because, you know, we can sit here and talk this is the time
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:25
8of the year where the cold water comes for everybody who isn’t so myopic. I don’t cam to chat or wearing a bird head where you really, you see and feel the difference in the seriousness of these other franchises and the people who run them and what they’re doing with all this gambling money and all the Civic money there besides intimidating am radio host and their employees from clubhouse badges in Arlington, you know, stuff like that, and actually having their tickets on sale and actually having a lease and actually having a strategy for the $400 million are trying to bend over the new governor for right, like all of that. But this is the time of the year where Major League Baseball meetings happen. And if you’re an astute fan, and you are an I am and you’re connected with Ken Rosenthal just a little bit who was at that 1985 game by the way. Well my satellite dish Bob Costas and everyone’s sense. You know, I love baseball and I’d love to see it work and and and you know what, dude? I got my hair done by palm LaMantia the other day and no, I don’t dye my hair. This is like what God gave me swear to God. And you know, I was talking some ball with Paul and looking around and seeing baseball stuff and thinking baseball stuff every day. I’m looking for these couple of Louis Aparicio, cards I need. So every day I’m sort of floating in a baseball space and thinking about baseball a little bit. I’m close enough to that. I really, really am living long enough and staying on the yoga mat and feeling pretty healthy for Chad’s deal for Greg Bader and anyone else that I’m going to live long long enough, I’m gonna live long enough that somebody else is going to own the place. And there’s going to be something different. I mean, I thought about Cal Ripken the other day, you know what I mean. And I’m thinking about what’s happened to him last 20 years owning baseball everywhere, but there, and I keep thinking to myself, there’s going to be an end to this, there’s going to be an end of this, and there’s going to be another owner. And I’m 55. And there’s going to be something else that happens after this. And if I can be a part of effecting it good for me. But like, I really believe there’s going to come a winner meetings where this guy’s not going to own the team. And I believe that because as bad as the commander’s looked against the offense over the weekend, there is something different happening there. And I feel like there will be something different happening here. And that goes for the football team somewhere down the line to when Steve doesn’t want it anymore and find some new home for it. But I think we’re getting closer to the end in the beginning with this Angelo’s thing. And I think some real journalists should be stepping up about all this crap that’s going on. And I think at some point Manford needs that, you know, they’re gonna miss manage this offseason, I’m pretty sure that and I don’t even know what they’re going to do with the lease. They’ve already mismanaged that five ways from Sunday, I just hope that this guy doesn’t wreck Elias. Because like, I really think to myself, there’s a point where we have to come to a winner meetings, and you can say, well, we’re small market, and we have limited means and stuff. But we don’t have a competency, or an ownership group that I don’t know how you could have any confidence in them based on the track record. And based on the fact that they run and hide, the owner stuck his nose out three times, he hires lock, and four, you know what I mean? Like he, Kevin Brown, like all of that, like there’s, if he said anything, you don’t believe it. But I’d like to think as we get here, that there’s a real plan. And I don’t I know Elias has won. Now whether it can be an accurate or not. And you know, as well as I do, they do have more limited resources than other teams, and they do need to use it more wisely. But you will also need to spend some money. And they also need to make good future decisions in regard to trade and do what their baseball guy tells him to do. And more than that, at some point, earn the confidence, not of just super detractors like me that have only witnessed this and talked about it every day in my life, since I had a satellite dish with Harvey Meyers in 1985. And way before that, but just the fact that the rest of baseball is watching this, all the same people that came out, three, Kevin Brown four months ago, are like gonna be three Mike Elias, if he can’t take what he’s built, and do it the right way, and have the financial wherewithal to do what he needs to do. While the owners goofing with the lease and doing all this other crap, because these other franchises are serious. And I think that’s what I see at these winter meetings that we could talk about the hapless teams in the NFL, and teams can’t get out of their own way. And the browns, browning and whatever, when there’s bad ownership. But on the baseball side, and you’re competing with big boys, I mean, it’s throwing four or $500 million around for sure. You know what I mean? Like they want to win? Well, look,
Luke Jones 18:07
they won 101 games last year, and they’re in a really good position with their roster and with their farm system, hypothetically, they should have some money to spend to your point, even if you acknowledge, okay, it’s a smaller to mid market, wherever you want to put them, they can certainly spend more than they’ve spent in recent years. So I guess for me, you know, as you laid all that out, and look, do I have confidence in ownership? No. Do I have confidence in baseball operations? Yes, I do. But they still need the resources. And for me, this is where I look at this thing as we’re waiting on what’s going to happen with the lease and everything that’s connected to that and how it’s all related. At the end of the day, you know, whatever their payroll was ultimately going to grow to stems from that deal and what that’s going to look like. But I guess for me, it’s hoping that winning 101 games, winning the division being the number one seed, I’m hoping that’s not the high watermark for this current or era of Orioles baseball, I’m hoping that’s not the high watermark. I’m hoping that’s the beginning. And that doesn’t mean that they need to win 105 this year. But the point is, I’m hoping that and this specifically pertains to John angelos, but just the organization in its entirety. I’m hoping there’s not a thought that mission accomplished just because you want 101 games, and you were the number one seed and you won your first division title in nine years, which was great. That was fun. It was it was a heck of a season. I’m not gonna throw water on cold water on that or diminish that or be little that because it was that great of a season. But what you’re hoping is there’s not this sense of satisfaction that that’s good enough, right? And that’s where you go into the offseason and say, Okay, what can we do to augment this team? What can we do to get better? And you know, and it doesn’t have to be spending $300 million on a starting pitcher, but it needs to be more than Kyle Gibson, or more than, you know, Jordan Lyles, you know? I mean, you think about where they’ve been the last couple years, you need to aim higher than that. And of course, Gibson signed with the Cardinals already,
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:19
you know, he’s How much 29 million right?
Luke Jones 20:21
What Kyle Gibson? No, that was what 13 million, I think. Yeah, yeah, um, Sonny gray sign three years 75 with St. Louis. But you know, the, but the point is, what’s next, right? And I don’t want this to be that, Oh, you want 101 games, and you made the playoffs and you were good. And people are more excited than they were three years ago. And like, that’s all well and good. But I don’t want that to be the high watermark. And that’s where you go into the offseason and say, Okay, what’s next? What’s the next step? And yes, a big part of that is going to be improvement from within this Kyle Bradish have another level to hit. Does Grayson Rodriguez have two more levels to hit? Is Gunnar Henderson going to blossom from a rookie of the year to an MVP Series MVP candidate? Same with Adley rutschman. I mean, you go down the list, there are
8Nestor J. Aparicio 21:08
so many things to talk about like that, that don’t cost them any money. Right.
Luke Jones 21:13
Right. And right. And that’s a good thing. Let’s be clear about that, in the same way that when the Ravens draft future Pro Bowl players, that’s a good thing to have. Hamilton’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:20
money right now we’re talking about his productivity. Right,
Luke Jones 21:23
8exactly. So. So that’s where I praise them and what they’ve done and what they’ve accomplished to this point. But now you ask what is next for the Baltimore Orioles? And that’s where things get complicated. And it’s not because of any doubt in Mike Elias, or the players that they have on this current roster. But it’s what do you do now to put yourself in position to be better? And again, that doesn’t mean that you have to go from 101 wins to 108. In fact, if you ask me right now, do I think the Orioles are going to be better record wise this year than they were last year? I’m probably going to say no. And I don’t mean that in a negative way that they’re going to fall off and not make the playoffs or anything like that. But I just know how a 162 game season works. So even if you’re only winning 97 Games next year, what have you done to your roster to put yourself in better position for October and again, top half of the rotation starting pitcher, whether it’s look free agency, is what it is, at this point, I’m not holding my breath on them spending money, but they do have resource after resource after resource to go out and get a deal in SES, or to go out and get Corbin burns or whoever, you know, whoever you want to throw into that conversation. I mean, there’s a number of pitchers that, you know, that are believed to be on the market, you know, on the market for the right price. And in terms of prospects and the Orioles, as we’ve talked about, you can only hold these prospects for so long. So, you know, go out and get Shane Bieber, you know, whoever it is. So that’s where I kind of look at this thing. And, you know, because of the lease situation, because of John Angelos and my utter lack of confidence in that regard in terms of spending, that spending more money because they’re going to spend more money just by the fact that they’re, you know, the players already in on the roster are going to be making more money. But in terms of markedly increasing payroll, I’ll believe it when I see it. So if you’re going to acknowledge that then you are looking more on the trade front. And that’s not a bad thing, per se. I’m not. I’m not opposed to that. But until you see them pull off a deal. You’re kind of left here waiting, saying okay, what is going to happen, you know, is it going to be Dylan Cece? Is it going to be Corbin burns? Or is it going to be someone who’s marginally better than Kyle Gibson in a way that Kyle Gibson was a little bit better than Jordan Lyles the previous year. So, you know, until they until they make that splashy or moves, for lack of a better description. You’re kind of left here wondering and waiting and frankly doubting because of ownership at the end of the day. Well, the
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:03
car Gibson thing and I said 29 million, I meant 24 Because it was it had a it had an option to kicks in if he hits innings and gets another. I mean, well, that’s a real acknowledgement because he probably he would have hit those guarantees. If Angela, you know, evangelists would have given him that he would have they would have been on the hook for 12 million more. And it sounds like you know, he’s yesterday’s trash. He’s not good enough to be here. And the Cardinals just put 24 million into him potential. I hear you but I didn’t want to I wasn’t wacky when I said 29 million because I and you said 13 I’m like hold on. Let me let me look it up because I saw I did the math wrong. I did 12 and 12 and 125 but it’s still right he’s he’s not good enough here and it’s not a good value and it’s too much money. And he was like No offense to all and look I didn’t meet any of them. You’re in their locker room every day I’m not the people out there can answer their own questions as to why they let you in and not me and to know these guys, but I don’t know any See these guys, I only know them through television. And that’s through the lens of whatever John Angelos is allowing his employees to say, and film and do and be, you know, you know, with free Kevin Brown sitting behind all of it, but Kyle Gibson, to me seemed like the best grown up, they could have around that version of the Sutcliff. And back in the day, or that version of the Palmer, or that version of the Flanagan or that sage, kind of guy, they were always trying to bring in a year with every Doug Dre back and every you washed up picture they ever brought in here was to say we want to have a veteran in there to show young guys how to do it, there was an extra value for him. Cardinal saw that value, right? If they didn’t, somebody else would have given him something like this, because he does take the ball every fifth day, and he does have value. And that value says, That’s what 12 million a year buys. Now you want to go top shelf. I mean, you just buying rail, you know, I mean, you’re buying a rail, number four starter for 12 million a year, John, and he’s gonna cry about money. That’s what I’m saying. Like, if you’re in a real room with the real John Angelo’s, he bristles at this and to your point, we got to do better than that, but will they and it will cost and when I say at what cost? Did they go get C’s, and they give away half their their farm? Okay, and I know why they’re doing that, because it’s a little cheaper. And they’re gonna have to go to arbitration with him at some point. But it keeps it cheaper in the near short term. Sure, just the real strategy of winning, it’s the strategy of my dad might die any minute, they might throw me out of here, I just need to walk out here with as much money as I can get. Yeah, that’s the reality. That’s nice. But that’s the truth. And that goes back to the beginning of there is no long term management here. They’re buying green bananas, because like, nobody in their right mind thinks this guy is going to really own the team when all is said and done. But you know, with all due respect to my friend Harvey, you hung on a long, long time, you know, at the end of his life, and clearly Peters hanging on this could go on a long time. I you know, I don’t I don’t know how long that’s gonna go on. But it could be over by, you know, week from Friday. I don’t know. But this is, this is not the way the Baltimore Orioles should be operated. And it’s not the stuff we should be talking about there in the winter meetings. And we haven’t even gotten to the lease. Only because Kelsey was sick Get well soon, Tom. But when we talk about the baseball team, when we suspend talk of a nine and three football team, and by weekend Lamar in Super Bowl, and we got to talk about the baseball team, even when they went 101 games, we have to sit here and wade through all sorts of ish, that doesn’t pertain to what they’re waiting through another but they have their own dramas in for the Yankees and the Red Sox and Money and Taxes and the whole sport has a television drama. They have the A’s move in the raised or whatever they’re doing. They have cheating going on left and right. They have this gambling issue. They have streaming issues, they have all of these issues. But most franchises are focused on how do I get the best players? How do I get into the best place? How do we maximize our budget? Here is our budget. Here’s the reality of our money. How do we communicate with our fans? How do we sell tickets and have their tickets go on sale man, you know, like so. I? We don’t talk about them like they’re normal, even though they just won the American League Eastern one 101 gauge, which we almost never thought we’d see. You know, I mean, it’s rarefied air. It’s unchartered territory, but it’s also really, really treacherous when they don’t do things like everybody else does them. You know, really?
Luke Jones 28:34
Yeah. I mean, look, I’m not gonna sit here and try to argue with you about that point. I mean, I and for me, I think what’s frustrating and I’m gonna throw another name out there right now, Jackson trio. Milwaukee Brewers top prospect, just signed agreed to an eight year $82 million contract. Now he hasn’t played in the majors yet. But the Orioles with all acknowledging ownership, payroll, Li saw all the small market Midmark you know what, however, you want to describe the Oreos, all that and we know that’s been part of the discourse for a long, long time now. Even if you’re not going to spend money and go out and spend $150 million on a free agent pitcher and talking about how wise that is. And you’re talking about how wise an investment in a Kyle Gibson type would be and again, the Orioles need to be aiming higher than Kyle Gibson at this point in time. Right? As much as I love Kyle Gibson, the person and
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:27
if you’re aiming higher, you’re aiming higher than 24 million Gary, let’s start with that right.
8Luke Jones 29:34
But in the meantime, where is the deal for Jackson Holliday or Gunnar Henderson or you know Adley rutschman, who is now two years into his major league career. You know, the Brewers who, by the way, John angelos, that was one of the teams he cited when he talked last spring right at one of his one of his sessions with a media that was full of empty promises of showing books and all that kind of stuff. You know, he talked to But about three teams that he aspired to, for the Orioles to be more like Tampa Bay, Milwaukee, Cleveland, while the Brewers just gave their top prospect and eight year $82 million contract to buy out, you know, a couple, presumably two years of free agency, and who knows where they’ll be, I mean, brewers might trade them four years from now, if this kid ends up being a stud, and they know they’re not going to pay him, I mean, we know how that works with small to mid market teams in that regard. But, you know, that’s what’s frustrating, I think, even if the Orioles weren’t spending money on free agents, if they had locked up a gunner Anderson are they locked up Jackson holiday? Are they locked up a Grayson Rodriguez and bought out? Two years of free agency whatever? Yeah, I mean, and this feels very, I mean, the Braves have been a great example of this. Look how many young controllable players the Braves signed a contract extensions. I mean, that set them up to have this long term run of success. And I get it they lost to the Phillies in the playoffs the last couple years and frustration on.
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:01
Uncle John would say, have you seen their streaming numbers? Have you seen their community? Have you seen the Enclave that they built there? That’s what finance is all of that for the spreadsheets down the line? That guys like you? And Dan Connolly? You don’t understand money? Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s what he would say he would say they have all his years of books in 2028, that we can spend that money. I mean, it’s, that’s what he would say to you. And
Luke Jones 31:29
what anyone should be saying is yes, because of all of your years of expertise running successful businesses, right. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:38
8when you said he had a meeting with the media, he never met with the media, because I never been there.
Luke Jones 31:42
I you know what I meant, though, I hear what you’re saying. But the point is, if you aren’t going to be a small market team that runs themselves a certain kind of way, part of that is then extending some of your young players. I mean, the rays have done that. And look, the rays have traded away players too. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying the Tampa Bay Rays are the gold standard of how you should run your organization. But if you cite them as a team, you’re aspiring to be more like and look, in certain ways. It’s great to be like the rays in certain ways. But even the rays have extended young players and putting aside what happened with wonder Franco and you know, the off field and that whole thing. But the idea is they identified a young player on their roster who was a difference maker who was a franchise altering kind of talent, and they signed him to a long term contract. So if you’re not going to be a big spender and free agency, then how are you going to keep this thing going long term and look, a big part of that is obviously drafting and developing, and they’ve done a great job with that. But to extend this to make this not a four or five year window, but to make it a 10 year or in the race case, it’s been, what, 15 years now, where they have been not a world’s not the top contender in baseball year after year, but they’re a playoff contender year after year after year. And they’ve been a little better than that at times. But they have had that churn where, yes, you’re going to trade away some players and you’re going to make some difficult choices. But they also did have extended some players too. So that needs to be part of the equation there and I think so many Orioles fans, and you know whether you’re talking about pie in the sky, unrealistic dreams of signing, Blake Snell or if you’re talking about trading for someone, whatever it might be, just the the sheer act of extending one of your young guys and saying okay, you know, what? Still questions about what the payroll is ultimately gonna grow to still working out the lease all those different things. But they extended this guy, and they’ve got Jackson holiday that
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:52
cost them with Henderson. Henderson is a two extension, right?
Luke Jones 33:56
I mean, it’s gonna be a lot. I mean, the fact that he’s already been, you know, I mean, he got top 10 votes for MVP, let alone talking about the fact that he wanted I
8Nestor J. Aparicio 34:03
said $200 million to an organization like, never spent anything like that ever. Wow. $170
Luke Jones 34:11
million for Chris Davis. So they have I mean, you know, the
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:16
old man almost had dementia. I mean, I’m not even convinced he knew what he was doing at that point. I you know, I mean, literally, I really don’t. I mean, like, literally, because that was so out of character for him. To be honest with you. Yeah.
Luke Jones 34:30
8I mean, at the time, though, they were spending money. It just, they weren’t spending it very wisely at that point in time. I mean, they, their payroll had gotten to, like 10th, or 11th, and baseball and circa 2016. So, but you got to make smart decisions. And but the point is, you know, the Brewers did this with Jackson to Rhea trio, who hasn’t made his major league debut yet and it was still eight years at $2 million. So, you know, if it’s not gonna Henderson, maybe see if you can get it done with Jackson out All of them. And may He might say no. I mean, he’s clearly he’s got a father who understands the business. And he has representation that, you know, is shrewd, and you know, understands how this all works. So it might be, they might have approached them, and he says kick rocks. But the point is you got to do something at some point in time here to really instill some confidence in your fan base that taking nothing away from last year. I’m not I’m not being dismissive of that. But in terms of this staying healthy, long term. Yeah, at some point in time, you’ve got to make some moves that are going to ensure that it stays healthy, long term. And I don’t think it’s just oh, we’re just going to we’re going to trade Adley rutschman When he’s a year and a half away from free agency, we’re going to trade Gunnar Henderson when he’s two years away from free agency. Look, they might have to do, they might do certain things like that. But at some point, you said have to have two would mean Boris wants 225 million you want to get your 50. Sure. And if that’s and and by the way, and this is not just an Orioles thing, there are smart organizations who the Ravens do this in the NFL, and I get it a salary cap sport. But the idea is you place a certain value on a player and then you don’t budge from that right. And the Ravens have done this Hey, dude, I don’t know
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:16
that I would have given Machado all that money. He’s throwing bats at people and starting fights and like a man, you know, I never I never thought he was a great face for the franchise. And certainly the Chris Davis thing. It’s, it’s, it’s hilarious. The old man gave him all this money knowing he’d be dead or gone. I mean, he’s getting paid for the 15 years. So like Peter made this deal with him that was unlike anything else, even into the future and future money and stuff like that. I love to know John’s philosophy as a fan of the franchise for how he feels about you know, like all of these Fireside Chats he thinks he does. What is the plan? What’s the best plan that like let’s talk because we’re going to talk about that intelligent fans are going to talk about what the best way to do this is for the current Baltimore Orioles given owners in wherever he is kids are running the team. The television network things a mess, like to all of that and and crying poor and selling off dad’s properties and fighting with his brother all not having a lease all the things that we’re seeing happening. The turtling up in the crying poor Luke, he can’t look rich. You don’t I mean, he can’t buy steak right now because he’s he’s cashing welfare checks. You know what I mean? Like, they look poor. They are poor until they spend money then they’re not poor anymore. And we’re poor because of that. Chris Davis thing? I mean, they have all. Nobody’s downtown with skyboxes this. There are other Tickets on sale there on the lease. So there’s all of that, do people not come because of the crime or they’re not come because they lose 100 games? Or they’re not come because the price or they’re not come? Because they don’t feel value? I don’t know. But he’s, it’s very, very easy for him to say, No, dinero? No, I, you know, like, I don’t I don’t have the money right now. And he still got to pay $120 million to the learners. I mean, there’s just, there’s a lot of moving parts to the finances of the team that are going to sit above and beyond. They don’t want to sign to your saying pie in the sky that they would actually sign the best pitcher in baseball, when they want 101 games, and they have a low payroll, and they have a high ceiling and they move the left field fence back for this purpose to attract the best not to sign out. I mean, I just sit here play this game all night. I can take phone calls, I could sound whiny and old man on my lawn and all that. They have a real opportunity to capture the hearts and the minds and the spirits of the community. And they’ve just done a really lousy job of it after 101 wins. I mean, even just the fact that we’re talking about it and this term, and they don’t have a lease, and there’s and they lied about it. And they made the governor lie about it. It’s just it’s gross. And it’s by week and we have a football team playing this week and we’re going to be on the purple magic carpet ride of Lamar every week. But I just want to do this on camera. Shame on them that this is where we are for the franchise when there should be good news coming every week. We should have a pitcher this week. A long term deal for Henderson next week. Some conversation about other stuff like deal made. Who’s playing shortstop who’s playing third base there should be a Winter Carnival. They should have tickets on sale. I should be getting my ass kicked by the Oriole bird wearing a Santa outfit we should all be laughing and making money for cystic fibrosis and doing good holiday deeds. We should all be doing that and Gunnar Henderson should be signed a free autographs in front of the Brooks Robinson statue like all that should be going on. But it’s not because I don’t own the team and the stiff does.
Luke Jones 39:49
Well it’s why I made the point a few minutes ago that you know my my biggest concern for the Orioles at this point from a baseball standpoint and again getting into everything you talk about. It’s all tied together, lease on down, ownership on down. But that’s why I said my biggest concern is that we’ve already hit the high watermark and because of what you just said, and that would be a shame. And if your job and this is where, if I’m looking at this through the lens of how John Angelo’s might be looking at this. He said, you know, what, why are we gonna spend more money when we 101 101 games, we had the second lowest payroll in baseball, and we want 101 games, the Dodgers didn’t win the World Series and look at how much money they spent to that the Braves, as much as we love the battery and everything that we want to aspire to be in that regard. They didn’t win the World Series, and look how much money they spent. So I don’t agree. Let’s be clear me saying that doesn’t mean I’m saying I agree with that. But if you’re John angelos, you might be thinking that way. And if that’s the case, then that’s where I worry that 101 wins in 2023 ends up being the high watermark, because you’re not investing long term in keeping your young players. And by the way, Mike Elias can still draft and develop really well. But you’re not going to be picking the top five anymore. So inherently, that becomes more difficult. So, look, people will listen. We’ll sit here and say, well, that’s a really cynical way of looking at it. Okay, well, John Angeles prove us wrong, then.
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:23
Go prove us wrong. Yeah, well, I’ll just say this. And this is the quote the late great Mike Flanagan while I did a segment here on Harvey Meyers and other people I loved and I learned things from in my life. Flannel Flanagan told me when was kind of all over with and he’s on television, we would sit up at Panera up and Hunt Valley and talk about life over coffee. Sometimes Jim Duquette would join us. And he said to me, MacPhail once said to me, why feed him stay? Well, he’ll eat hamburger. And I’ve been with you and you’d like hamburgers. I love hamburgers. I was over Coco’s. I mean, I’ll eat your hamburger. I mean, Jimmy Baba, give me cheeseburger. You know, I like all that. But if that’s your barometer, we’re gonna be a hamburger restaurant because steaks too expensive and who wanted anyway, who’d want the best we just would, you know, you know, and I love me some meatloaf and salisbury steak because I’m from Dundalk, Luke, well, we’ll take a timeout. And when we get together, we’ll talk about the big acquisition cease and the extension of Anderson and the new lease agreement. And we’ll do all of that. I’m sure. Before the Rams get here this week. Luke’s gonna be out knowings Mills all week this week, next week, every week all weeks as long as they let him as long as they let us. We’re so grateful. The ability to do our jobs covering the team picked up pick appreciation for everybody on the 25th anniversary. He’s had a hell of a week later. crabcakes cocoas we went to gertrudes I found that the John shields in our family it’s true go listen to it. Dan Rodricks this week, as well as our friends up at Hollywood casino Amy was such a great guest to had a lot of fun with her all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. I like the Oh snaps because of the dollar tickets you get a couple of them. And they smell good too. So while the Maryland lottery as well as window nation, and our friends at the Jiffy Lube, multi care sponsor the crab cake tour, I’m wearing my state fair shirt because I’m going to be at State Fair. This week. We’re going to be at foreign daughter and next Friday antimonium And then we’re going to be wise markets Christmas week, and which I’m going Eli Christmas week, and sounds like eggnog to me and then we’re going to be put but never that fruitcake stuff, please. And then we’re going to be at fate Lee’s right after Christmas because who doesn’t need a giant family’s crab cake on December 28? Not i i am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking baseball. Even if they don’t want us to
