As the Orioles play a significant week of baseball in Tampa and The Bronx, Luke Jones and Nestor react to the Boston Red Sox blockbuster deal of Rafael Devers and evaluate the Orioles’ active summer realities in a market where Mike Elias needs to create a better baseball team – now, and in the future.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the recent trade of Rafael Devers from the Red Sox to the Giants, questioning the timing and value of the deal. They highlighted the Red Sox’s financial constraints, noting the team’s recent success and the potential long-term impact of the trade. Nestor expressed concerns about the Orioles’ management and financial strategy, emphasizing the need for a clear direction and fan engagement. They also touched on the broader implications of the MLB’s financial landscape, the impact of streaming services on fan experience, and the potential for a work stoppage in the league.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles trade, Rafael Devers, Red Sox, financial flexibility, Mike Elias, Cal Ripken, baseball revenue, streaming services, MASN, fan engagement, television contracts, MLB lockout, player contracts, team ownership.
SPEAKERS
8
Nestor Aparicio, Speaker 1, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 15 70,000 Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive, taking the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by the mayor of the lottery back out on the road this week. We’ll be at the Y in Randallstown on Tuesday, and then headed to readers crab house up in the Reisterstown area on the 26th we’re putting something together in two weeks over Costa centimonium, that it’s not officially official, so I can’t let you know about that. We’re also going to be at the 1623 brewing up in beautiful Eldersburg, with my pal Mike McKelvin, who’s got some old Vince Bagley stories and Baltimore sports stories. And I’m doing my Vince Backley out on the video right now. Luke Jones is here right now. He is trying to do his Kikuchi left handed. I don’t know. We’re gonna play outdoor baseball. They moved the game times back. I’m like, Oh, they have thunderstorms. It’s 105 degrees in Tampa in the middle of June, and amidst all of this George Steinbrenner feel, which gives me the itches. And then they’re gonna go to Yankee Stadium, which gives them the itches. You know, we’re gonna talk. We talked about talked about the optimism with the team, and then playing better baseball and beating up on the angels and whatever this period would be, and whether they’re buyers or sellers, and whether Mike Elias is the general manager of the future or the here and now, and what Cal Ripken is doing, saying Mike’s our guy, like, I don’t know what this guy’s doing, who owns the team, but there’s just none of this that’s like connecting. I was at the Greek Festival over the weekend at St Nicholas. Hi Timmy, hi Constantinos, and everyone that was there. Delicious caught him be 80s. I gotta be honest with you, which may be late for Luke this morning with my coffee here. We’re also doing the show at Zeke’s coffee, by the way, too, with receive. We’re doing his whole Laravel Friday morning coffee mafia. We’re going to be hanging out over there. So we’re looking forward to that that’s in early July as well. Blockbuster trade happens over the weekend, Luke and then Otani is going to pitch that’s a little curious, just unto itself. But then there’s the, just the Orioles messaging, right? Like, and I watch these television I watch the television programming I, you know, I watch it like, I’m Greg Bader, like, I’m like, a guy who’s programmed the radio station for, oh, I don’t know, 28 years, you know, or give or take. And I hear interim manager, and I know how pissed off Palmer is about all of it and get his games cut, and just, just in general. Then I hear Brian Roberts, and I think I love you, but it’s not great. Everybody loves Ben. Everybody loves Kevin Brown. He goes away for a little while, and I just see like from the broadcast down, and the way they’re broadcast and where they are, I can always sort of get the state of the team by listening to the tone of Melanie Newman or the tone of the broadcasters, and what’s going on in the locker room and who’s in and out. Dave Johnson did some games this week. I love Dave, and he has his own insights as a player, at a kid, the whole deal. He sees the game differently as a pitcher, which I think is a real benefit to Ben and to Jim Palmer. But I just see the whole totality of all of it, and I still want to measure it as they go on the road, as a last place team that was scuffling. It’s getting better, and we did our whole optimism piece about getting all the players back and all the all of that, this is really in relation to the Colton cows or trade thing that I started last week saying that’s not really what I’m saying. What I’m saying is they’re gonna have to give up something to get something and the Red Sox participated in something over the weekend that it it’s a fascinating time of the year to have that kind of deal. And you say, what are we capable of? And Ripken says, Mike’s our guy, and Ruben Stein’s disappeared again five weeks after the bobble heads fresh, the paints fresh. I it’s just I’m trying to figure what the franchise is going to be. Then I see other teams sort of wheeling and dealing and having a good time, and certainly keeps it lively for your fan base, if you’re into the reality television of all of this, right? Yeah,
Luke Jones 04:08
although I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with the Red Sox, where that’s I mean, what are they doing? No, and let me be clear, I don’t mean that specifically, like only about Rafael Devers. And obviously that’s been a saga that, you know, if you’re even a casual baseball fan, you’ve been aware of what’s happened there with, you know, they signed Bregman. They want Devers to DH he acquiesces, albeit reluctantly, and then Tristan CASAS goes down for the year at the season ending injury, and they want him to play first base. And he’s like, Well, wait a minute, you wanted me to be the DH. You know you didn’t like my defense at third base, and now you’re asking me to learn a new position in the middle of a season. I can understand it to a point on the on the flip side, I also understand the Red Sox saying, Hey, we gave you a three. 100 million dollar contract two years ago, and you’re not being a team player. So I understand both sides of that, but I also look at the Red Sox and say, You just won five in a row. You just swept the Yankees. You’re right in the heart of the wild card race at the very least, and you just traded your best hitter. And okay, I’ll hear Bregman, but Bregman is hurt right now, until he’s back and healthy and in the lineup. You just traded a guy that you just gave a $300 million contract to, what, not quite two years ago or two years ago it was. So the return they got from the Giants is not necessarily on paper, looking great. You know, it doesn’t look great. It doesn’t look like, Oh, I totally understand why they did that. You know, they they’ve created financial flexibility for themselves. Because I’d be the first to tell you, I’m guessing, that Deborah’s deal is not going to age very well. When you’re talking about a guy who is the DH or a first baseman at best, you know whether he learns to or agrees to play first base for the the Giants or not. You know he’s, he’s not a plus defender. Never has been
Nestor Aparicio 06:07
that said. What this is, is when you go into casino with a with 1000 bucks and you still got 428, left in your pocket, you say, let me just get out of here. Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a little bit of that with the contracts at this point,
8Luke Jones 06:19
right? I mean, I think so. But at the same time, if you’re a Red Sox fan, you’re looking at this and say, well, you’re, you’re still chasing the the ghost of trading Mookie bets, right? I mean, they did that. They traded both, you know, they didn’t resign bogarts, which that’s looking like. That’s That was a smart thing to do, but, you know, you you’ve bailed two years into the Devers deal. And okay, I’ll hear it. You’ve got Anthony, you’ve got Mayor, you’ve got Tristan Campbell. You know, they’ve got a young core. But you also look at the Red Sox. Since they last won the World Series in 18 they have one playoff appearance. And look the Red Sox standard. And, you know, comparing it to the Orioles, bad
Nestor Aparicio 07:02
time to get over the bus if it’s going the wrong way. That’s the Japanese expression of the train, right? Like, like, if there’s a point where, like, you can’t you can find a dude, I had a condo downtown three years into it, it just, please somebody take it. Because I know long term this is a bad idea. And, I mean, I
Luke Jones 07:23
guess this winter, could have done that this winter. I mean, he’s got a 900 ops. I mean, the question
Nestor Aparicio 07:29
8is, very well, then you’re selling high. Well, theoretically,
Luke Jones 07:33
I mean, I guess, I mean, but we’re not talking about some you know, this isn’t Ryan O’Hearn. This is a guy who’s already a three time all star, right? Mike, my question would be, are the Red Sox a better team in 2025 without him? And I think the answer is no. Now the better they could be better off in the long run, but at some point in time, Red Sox fans, or anyone, I mean, let’s you know, obviously the Orioles haven’t had a standard anywhere close to what the Red Sox have done over the last 25 years, but at the same time, you look at it and say, I don’t know. I mean, is this really the best you could do for Raffy Devers, or could you have held on to him the rest of this year and then traded him in the off season? By the way, Bregman has got an opt out if you’re Bregman and his representation. I mean, you’re laughing at this and say, All right, I’ll take my blank check now. I mean, that’s, that’s what this is. So you look at it and it’s just the timing is wild. I mean, everyone saw that there were problems here, but I don’t think anyone was thinking that a trade was coming on June 15, right? I mean, especially the Red Sox have won five in a row, yeah, talk about, uh, tamping down the enthusiasm from a sweep of the Yankees over the weekend. You trade Raphael Devers. So it’s fascinating.
Nestor Aparicio 08:49
Well, it’s also fascinating to me to know that the emotional intelligence of the men who are running these teams is not the same as you know Sparky Anderson had having is in Tommy Lasorda and Earl Weaver had having their feet on the ground with players and with relationships and with who’s coming and who’s staying. They’re all being managed. And I, I hear this in the top down, like a stock market fund and, um, and there’s, there really is. No, you’re just selling off stock that that you feel like somebody’s willing to come and get you right now and get you out of a 200 $200 million left. Just come get it. Come get it. We’ll figure it out. I’m not worried about the fans. The business will go on. They all wear red sox gear. You know, they’ll, um, the old McPhail line of um. They’ll, um, they’ll eat the hamburger. They don’t need filet mignon, they’ll be okay. They’ll still be here next year. We need to fix our business, and I’ll hear that as a guy who’s had to fix my own business, right? So I mean, I I get a little bit of that, but I also understand where you’re coming from, but I look at it and say, if that’s there, it takes great conviction to make that deal to your. Point, like, it’s a little shocking. It’s but that’s where we are in the business of baseball. It’s really shocked when Corbin burns goes down. You own two $30 million too. Sure,
Luke Jones 10:09
sure. I mean, it takes great conviction, or you’re not very smart at your job. And I think a lot of people are asking about Craig Breslow, I mean, that they had their trade. By the way, I’m going to give a shameless plug here, just because I don’t do this often, and they’re often, and there are things that I sometimes watch. If anyone has Netflix, they did a hard knocks esque following of the Red Sox last year. It’s really good. It’s really interesting. Better access than the NFL has done with Hard Knocks in recent years, which very good to know. It’s It’s interesting. It’s, uh, it’s like, six or seven episodes, like, hour long, like, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a watch over a couple weeks, but you can binge it and it was interesting, but, yeah, I mean, if you’re the Red Sox, if you’re Red Sox fans, you’re kind of wondering, like, Okay, I think they were already 12th and payroll this year. I mean, they’re clearly not spending like they used to, and that’s fine if, if you love mayor, you love Roman Anthony. I mean, it’s similar conversation that we’re talking about with the Orioles, in the sense of having a young core, and that it can be cheap for X number of years, but then where are you going? And they’re being managed like a team in the Premiership. I mean, it’s just, it’s fascinating. I mean, it really and again, with Deborah, for me, it’s not, it’s not that you traded Rafael Devers. It’s transfer fee. It just feels like you did it and you you didn’t get a whole lot for him. And look, the giants are taking all the all of the salary for the deal, but at the same time, I’m guessing that he’s still going to be a really good player for at least the next three, four or five years, the last few years of that,
8Nestor Aparicio 11:43
here you go. You love him. Do you? Do you love Devers?
Luke Jones 11:49
Generally speaking, I don’t love players that don’t give something beyond a hit tool. But
Nestor Aparicio 11:55
would you love a player that pitched to back on the first base and had 200 million
Luke Jones 11:58
8left on a deal? I think their messaging was lousy, though. I mean, I think they, there’s, there’s blame on both sides with that. I think they could have handled that part of it better, and I think they’ve even acknowledged as much. And on the flip side, it’s also like, man, they did give you a $300 million contract. Like, don’t act like they they hate you, but because if they, if they truly hated you. They would have shipped you
Nestor Aparicio 12:21
off. What if he thinks they hate him? Is it time for him to go from an employment standpoint? I mean, I guess, okay, well, that’s all you need to know. Well, no, but no. I mean to me, that’s all you need to know. If he did, you know if he was unhappy and whatever. Then it’s just they made
Luke Jones 12:37
proper vision. But did you get proper value for him? Like, you know, I think looking at it in a pass, fail way is a very narrow way of looking at it. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 12:47
I think he looking at it five minutes after it happens is narrow, no matter what we do, right? Like in a general so you could say the why behind all of it. And I’m not even, I listen,
8Luke Jones 12:56
I read all the drama, and ask what the question is, like, where are the Red Sox going, like, what are they trying to be? Because it honestly just feels like they’re they’re just cheaper than they used to be. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 13:06
you asked that of Mike Elias in the off season, and you know, we hear the echo chamber of nothingness, right? Like, what are you trying to be signing 41 year old pitchers and Jason Kyle Gibson in this kid from the from the Japanese league that may or may not be able to do this or like, at some point. But on the other
Luke Jones 13:22
side, on the flip side, everyone wanted them to sign Corbin burns and Anthony Santander. And if they did that, Anthony Santander has been hurt and
Nestor Aparicio 13:30
8bad for the one of them to sign Chris Davis, right? Like so I and I wanted to sign Jonathan scope. So I’ll give you all of my I thought Ken Gerhart was going to be a 10 year play, you know, like I out here all the mistakes and all the hits and misses of all, you know, I mean, nobody thought Cedric Mullins with 3030 but, you know, I mean, like there’s an up and down, like a stock market for all of these guys, and knowing when to buy and knowing when to sell. You know, the Orioles could have bought in on one relief pitcher in the off season. They bought in a different one. They could have gone different ways with their finances and their money. But now we bring in this to where the Orioles are right now, which is, Cal says Mike’s our guy, right? So Mike’s our guy, but what’s Cal doing and where? When? When is any of this going to have any now? Cal’s doing a goofy commercial that’s just as bad as the Star Wars way, like I look at all this and say, All right, man, like Winning is important, and we talk about on the field and all that, but I look at the totality of all of it, and it smacks to me of like they’re flopping around right now and can’t figure out, and you’re seeing the stadium empty and the upper deck, and they’re getting $600 million and They’re throwing you out of the press box. And they started to bleed out this information in the way that they you speak about hard knocks, not being as filtered in the most filtered, nebulous ways as as possible to think that there’s all this money going to come flooding in to club seats behind home plate. You. Great but, but what’s the big plan? When do you actually sit in front face and give like the real plan not have Katie hiding in the dugout in September and been hiding ever since David Rubenstein giving out bobble heads, and then Rifkin sitting with John Harbaugh behind home plate, and again, with the broadcast, just the whole totality of what they’re giving us, the Elias piece, and this thing of making deals and making the team better, or status quo, or a really conservative approach to younger players and payroll and finances. What are the Orioles? You know? I mean, you’re asked, What are the reds? What are the Orioles?
Luke Jones 15:43
I mean, I was talking about the Red Sox because the Devers deal is big news. I mean, we’re going to find out. I mean, couple things. One cow was speaking at a ripkin foundation event in the same way that Michaelia said Brandon Hyde’s our guy. I mean, you, you always do that until you’re not anymore, the first moment that you express any public doubt in in one of your you know, even though Cal’s not running the show, but you’re subordinate, so to speak, you might as well just fire them then, right? I mean, that’s how this works. Votes of confidence are there you support, support and support publicly until you make a move. So that doesn’t do much for me. The fact that he talked compared to we’ve heard Mike Elias speak in Milwaukee once since Brandon High was fired, and haven’t heard him do anything since then, after he had done a media tour that was all about votes of confidence for Brandon Hyde, I think that was telling. But you know, we Rubenstein hasn’t done a any real press, and you know what, since last year or the beginning of this, this year, right? Certainly not in a in a wide scale press conference since opening day last year. But, yeah, I mean, we’re trying to figure that. We’re trying to see what that’s going to become, but I don’t know, right? I mean, I, I can’t sit here with with any strong
Nestor Aparicio 17:03
saying is the Red Sox is an ownership group, and as a baseball leadership group, decided to basically dump some salary in the middle
Luke Jones 17:11
of the season, right? And for a player who’s playing great, by the way, I mean, it’s like, if the Orioles, I don’t even there’s not a cop, because they don’t have anyone that has a 10 year contract right now. But
8Nestor Aparicio 17:25
Peter would have never done that, because it’s really against Peters. Well,
Luke Jones 17:29
this would just be against, I mean, this would be the Orioles trading gunner Henderson tomorrow for for a package where you would say, I don’t know if that’s really, you know, and, and obviously it’s a rough comp. Gunner, Henderson’s not as accomplished as Rafael Devers. They’re different players. Gunner, Henderson brings value in different ways, other than a hit tool, whereas Devers, it’s a phenomenal hit tool, but it’s a hit tool, and that’s it. You know, how well is that my issue? Let me be clear, my issue is not them trading Rafael Devers. It’s trading him on June 15 for what feels like not a very good return. That that’s my issue more so if they traded them this winter, I wouldn’t have batted an eyelash. Because I also think you’ve completely put yourself behind the eight ball assuming Bregman is going to opt out, because he has the ability to opt out of that deal, and now it almost feels like you have no choice, but you have to pay ALEX BREGMAN whatever he wants. And that was kind of what they had to do with Rafael Devers in the aftermath of not extending bets and moving on from bogarts. Is what you see. What I mean, I feel like the Red Sox are. It’s
Nestor Aparicio 18:34
almost didn’t want the player anymore. What
Luke Jones 18:37
8changed in two years? Base, well, but he wasn’t a good defender. Two years ago. So I don’t know, but Craig Breslow, to me, inspires No. If I were a Red Sox fan, I would have no
Nestor Aparicio 18:51
I could take this to Lamar Jackson, who, when they got together and said, Would you be here for these OTAs? I’m sure he said he would be. I’m sure they said, we’ll pay you three quarters million dollars. Make sure you come like you do, and it’s just, but I’m just saying money is worth to you and to me, and what the kid and you and me collecting baseball cards is is, how could they deal my favorite player in the middle of the year? Dude, I don’t, I don’t want to play old man. Get off my lawn with you and you play the old guy. And me saying, I’m telling you that this becomes a boardroom game, a bunch of boardroom guys who don’t think with any emotional intelligence, nor do their general managers, and they’re not thinking about their fan base. They’re thinking, you’re a Red Sox fan, you’re going to be a Red Sox fan. You’d be pissed at me today, but if we’re playing playoff games next October because of this deal, in some way that we get money back that we can then turn into gunner Henderson, or whatever that they want to turn that money into, or pull the money back, or not play the pirates game. I’m not saying that because I mean the Red Sox can’t do that, but I think that saving a little money here and again, as opposed to pissing it away a. Tyler O’Neill and Gary Sanchez and maybe kittridge, and maybe, you know, Kyle Gibson, and maybe down the line Charlie Morton. And, you know, it adds up, and it feels like funny money to you and me. I’m dude. I’m promising you the reason Katie Griggs is hiding from me, it’s, it’s not funny money to her, these empty seats and late getting the product to mass in, and who’s buying it? Why are they buying it? How much are they paying? What’s, what’s the per cap for everybody going down there on bobblehead night? And you know, how much money are they making? And what’s the real finances of the $5 menu, value menu, and all of that. I just the money has to come from somewhere here. And the Red Sox, to your point, considered to be flush, and they just have money to throw around. I I don’t think baseball is like that. I don’t think it’s being run like that. And I think if down the middle your vibe, and knowing you two decades, I don’t see you’re more pro player or pro agent, but I think you’re much more bound to maybe take that side of the fence a little bit more in this and maybe over the course of years, I took the side of the fence of the owners have an unlimited amount of money. They’re they’re kings that, you know. And then I learned a little bit more during Peters era about how much money went into these poor franchises and then flip flopping. And now I worry even more when I don’t see the revenue streams for these teams. And I think some bean counter comes down who bean counts the soccer leagues over in Europe, and they have a general manager, they call in and say, Let’s unload 200 million. It’ll give you more flexibility in the off season. Take the hits right now. Fans will be pissed. You’ll get killed on the talk shows up there and whatever. But when you go sign something the next time and bring them the filet mignon they want, and I think the Red Sox still think that way. I don’t know what the hell they’re thinking here, because I’ve you haven’t seen any filet mignon around here in a long time. But to into your point, the Red Sox have a longer thing, but I think they’re being managed differently. And I really think the sport this may speak to the Dodgers and these other teams being managed one way, and just the disparity of all of it. And I think Mr. Rubenstein is finding this out very quickly, or somebody around there that’s managing it’s finding it out very quickly that just saying we’re going to double revenue next year because we won 101 games. I mean, it just didn’t work that way. And I don’t know where the revenue is going to come from in the long term, if the Red Sox are feeling a little bit of a pinch, because I think this might be a little bit of that, because not a little bit. It’s it’s a lot, it’s a big number. And this is cutting at the top, cutting the executives that are making all the money to save a little bit of dough,
Luke Jones 22:49
fair enough, I mean, but it’s kind of been how they’ve operated the last five or six years now. I mean, going back to your point, look, if I tend to be a little more pro player, and I don’t think I am, across the board, by any means, I certainly
Nestor Aparicio 23:02
I don’t think you’re right,
8Luke Jones 23:05
but I would also say I have over 100 years of evidence that would support that I should be more pro player and less pro owner for any number of issues, you know, going back to reading Lords of the Realm and the gentleman’s agreement, the reserve clause, all that, too, shit. Anyway, yeah, and I know you would understand that, and I wasn’t. I didn’t take what you said to any offense or anything like that. I think
Nestor Aparicio 23:26
I’ve wavered over 35 years on the air. You could go back and find a voice of mine that would be very anti Don fair, very, you know, pro Marvin Miller. Later on, I’ve managed business, I’ve been hired, I’ve been fired. I’ve worked for big business, I’ve worked for small but, you know, like, so like i My heart has moved in different directions as I’ve had to hire and fire and build and rebuild and get kicked in the balls and get sued and just all of those things that have happened. It does change. You just fill us up. My wife just changes philosophically. I think these businesses change like that. Too big time
Luke Jones 23:58
well, and we’ve talked a lot about TV and look, I it’s not offensive to me or I think it’s completely fair, if not obvious, to say many owners have been bad for the game, and many agents like Scott Boris haven’t necessarily been good for the game either, right? I mean, they’re good for their client, they’re good for their specific group of clients, but is it necessarily what’s best for the players across the board? Right? Has, has the union, and we could say this about any sport. We’ve talked about this a lot with the NFLPA at times, where have they truly been, what’s, what’s been best for the players across the board, or are they catering to the players at the top of the tax bracket? Right? We’ve talked, we talked about that a lot with the 2011 CBA. One of the things the players wanted done was, you know, the revamp the draft. You didn’t want all these rookies, you know, these rookie quarterbacks getting all this guaranteed money, and they changed the system to the point where, okay, more the established players got more money, but they kind of screw. Over rookies who probably deserve more than they deserve it more than they get at this point in time, with talking about, you know, the top 10 picks in the draft, they’re underpaid now relative to the days of Sam Bradford being vastly overpaid, right? So, so you always have that there’s always
Nestor Aparicio 25:18
8rich enough to buy their mom anything they want the day the end of the league, though, of course, well, they but
Luke Jones 25:21
they could say that, you know, we could say that about anyone you could play, you know, at the same time. Does that mean the the owners should pocket more
Nestor Aparicio 25:29
money? Wasn’t always that way, and the league got built by the owners being pricks and not caring about guys getting hit in the head, and not caring about playing on Christmas Day, and not caring about your feelings, or my feelings, or anybody’s feelings, or any international boundaries, or Donald Trump, or taking the knee, or they don’t get Colin cab, they don’t care about anything like so, but they’ve known that baseball has operated within that framework of arrogance, and they haven’t grown anything. Baseball has shrunk before our very eyes.
Luke Jones 25:59
Everything has other than the NFL. I mean, really, everything we’ve talked about this, everything’s
8Nestor Aparicio 26:05
more revenue, not revenue. I mean, I’m not saying baseball revenue shrinking. I’m saying there is a real concern of where this money’s coming from and who this money’s coming from. And again, I always reference your mother. I reference your sister, but she lives in a household where they’re all sports nuts, but they might not be Oriole nuts, and they might get the Phillies games and sets of Major League Baseball gets their money. They’re happy. You don’t care if you’re Yankees or Mets, as long as you’re wearing a hat. And I think, but that being said, it is a big deal if you’re the owner of the Orioles and your sister becomes a Phillies fan and never gives the Orioles a nickel, never comes to Camden Yards, doesn’t buy their package. Your your nieces become Phillies fans, then all of their frat it really goes to the Phillies franchise, and it screws everybody else. There might there’s that drinking of revenue sharing and like all of that, but small market teams have to create that, which is why I keep telling Katie Griggs coffee, just some coffee. Meet me over at Zeke’s. Want some coffee that you need to grow the brand, and you need to and the Red Sox are perceived as being all of this. And I think that, you know, there is a point where, if you’re in a bad deal and the guy’s healthy, and the horse can run, sell the horse while it just ran a couple races, that’s how they think. They’re not they’re not thinking like Luke and Nestor collective base doesn’t mean they’re smart. Well, I got that, but it does when they wake up with 200 million in their checkbooks next February, and that makes them smart. I mean, I had plenty of people tell me about all of these leagues that you know, in indoor soccer and minor league hockey and minor league baseball didn’t matter whether you won or lost, did you make money? Did you make money? And that’s the business they’re in now. And Mr. Rubenstein, as much as he called this philanthropy, which I still I heard somebody echo that to me the other day. I just chuckle that they actually had people saying that out loud, that this is a philanthropy. I mean, my goodness gracious, anything but a philanthropy, but which is all we’re talking about here, how it’s not philanthropy at all, not enough for the Red Sox, not for Raphael Devers, not for anybody, but how this is going to be managed. Because, dude, I know one thing, they’re never going to have as much money as the Red Sox, no matter what they do and
Luke Jones 28:18
and what you’re going to end up seeing is, everyone who is paying attention to this thinks we’re going to see a work stoppage in a couple years, you know, after 26 probably a lengthy one. I think the owners feels like the owners are really going to dig in for a salary cap and for a revenue sharing system, you know, as TV, as it pertains to TV that is much more like the NFL, meaning everyone shares it, whether that means everyone’s local product is brokered by MLB TV or something like that. I mean, MLS has done it with Apple, you know, which some people have said it’s worked out well, though, league officials over the last few months have said they don’t like it like that. I mean, who knows. But point is, it feels very much like we are going to see a salary cap, and it feels like, you know, some of what you see, and again, I’m just going off of what I’ve read, you know, people who cover the league at a national level, you know, it feels like the players are
Nestor Aparicio 29:21
almost it feels like maybe there’s going to be an acceptance that there’s going to be a salary cap, but then they’re going to dig their heels in on okay, if there’s gonna be a salary cap, we need a floor. The Bob nuttings of the world need to stop acting like they’re so poor that they can’t buy any baseball players at all, because that’s BS. And we know that’s BS. Well, here comes a 56 year old journalist and me saying, then fix it. Because, you know who was yelling fix it, me on the radio in 1993 and 94 when I was 25 years old, I didn’t even know what fixing it was. And I certainly didn’t know what the Baltimore Ravens, or who Vinny Testaverde and Rob Burnett were going to be right like during that period it was fix it. Lords of the Realm, you’re going to make me go read Lords of the Realm. Are you somebody? You. Eisenberg knows John Hellyer, like I know people that know John Hellyer. If I could get John hell you’re on here, and it’s going to make me do a vacation like you’re doing the next couple of weeks, I’m going to go to Wildwood. I’m going to eat your pizza, Max pizza is my dad’s name. And I’m going to read Lords of the Realm again, because, like, this is going to be a barn burner, right? Times has changed too. Marvin Miller ain’t coming back. Don fury coming back. I mean, it always short. Should have from the first fire sale of Fred McGriff in San Diego and the Marlins and everything last century, when they were sticking Andrew Steen Dion, wherever they were sticking it needles as well, the clear and the the cream that they could have fixed this. And that’s really been, in my lifetime, 27th anniversary, all the stuff we’re doing here. It’s what’s made the NFL. The NFL is having the ability for the Green Bay Packers to be this little place. We’ve gone up to the edge of the earth to see football and a village basically, um, be able to compete. And that’s not in the case of baseball, you could say, Well, Bob Nutting could spend more, and Peter could have spent more, yeah, but they could at the end of the day this there, there you go. That’s when you get see. I just told you you were going to do that. I said you were gonna take the because you get your little
Luke Jones 31:24
8dibs. I’m gonna, I’m gonna take bigger, $1.8
Nestor Aparicio 31:32
billion this is a philanthropy, Mr. Rubenstein, it’s a philanthropy. I mean, comedy around here, around this stuff, I would
Luke Jones 31:39
just say I’m going to take shots at billionaires before I’m going to take shots at millionaires. That I will say that, but you are the deacon at your church
Nestor Aparicio 31:48
too. I’m just, you know? I’m just saying, call it that middle You are right. You’re not wrong. You’re at all. And I’m not making a case that trading Rafael Devers in the middle of the season fan friendly. I’m saying it’s business savvy. And then you put the backdrop of work stoppage and who’s going to have money on ledgers and like, where they want to be financially, in case this thing is, is an ish storm. If you read Lords of the Realm, or know the history, it’s always been an ish storm before. I don’t know, but to me, if they can’t all get in their tents and see that they’re playing for less. People with less have less arrogance. And I that’s impossible for these humans to have less arrogance. It just is. I, if there’s nothing I’ve learned is that none of them ever wake up as billionaires like the scene in the in Scrooge you know, where like they wake up and become even though we’re playing at George Steinbrenner field this week, and he was portrayed at the end as a kinder, gentler King at the end of his life. You know, they never find the light, so to speak, right? They never see the error of their ways. They’re never more awesome humans. And you know, people, 20 years after they buy these things and they get wealthier and whatnot. It just doesn’t work that way. And I don’t I think we’re into an era with baseball right now where there is a shrinkage. And if I’m playing the grown up columnist would be writing the piece saying y’all should get in room and fix your place the way the NBA did 15 years ago, the way the NHL did. So at least they can survive, and you can figure out some sense of certainty for the fans, not just cost certainty for you guys, which I know all of you want and need to run a business as Steve Bucha, he once said to me, we have an obligation to make profit around here. So, I mean, I get that, but I’m also of the mindset that the fans need some certainty too, in baseball, and that’s really what’s been broken, right? It’s been broken here that we got a new guy, and I don’t even know what the hell he is, because he hadn’t said what he is. Nobody said what he is. Mike’s our guy. Cal’s half our guy. They’re making. Cal’s got, like, an office, fake office. It’s just like, dude, just tell me what you are front face and and help everybody buy into it. And we’ll fund it in but we’re gonna have to fund it, and especially at these local levels, and for Mr. Rubenstein and all these people to get in a room and try to figure it out before world war three, that they blow the sport up a year and a half from now, and think that everybody’s just going to come running back the way they have. I mean, losing the arrogance would be the beginning of all of it. I mean, for me, but this, I don’t That’s why I don’t have a lot of hope in it. I mean, and I think your disappointment for anybody who’s a Red Sox fan in the way it’s being operated. I think this is the way it’s going to be. It’s not going to make sense to fans.
8Luke Jones 34:45
Well, it’s but I it’s not again. I’m not saying the devil’s trade in isolation is wrong. I’m saying it’s pretty wild to do it on June 15. That’s what I’m saying, that I mean that. When you are playing well. I mean, you just traded your best hitter when you’re playing well. You know, everything you say in a big picture sense, I don’t disagree with and look, my point is you could have traded Raphael Devers this winter anyway. You know a lot of what you mentioned. I mean, we’ve talked about this. We’re going to see how it’s going to play out, because it looks like we’re probably going to have a lockout and post 26 and we’ll see what kind of appetite both sides have for digging in for a fight, right? I mean, it’s,
Nestor Aparicio 35:34
yeah, it might be some more unorthodox stuff like this, right? I
Luke Jones 35:38
don’t know. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 35:42
8I and already poor. They’re not on the hook for money. I mean, nobody’s sitting on a Juan Soto. You know, this isn’t Detroit Tigers in the Royals 30 years ago, where they were sitting on money and really bad things. I
Luke Jones 35:54
mean, the Red Sox have already cut payroll. I mean, I don’t think this is about the Red Sox needing money. I think they’re, you know, they’re trying to, they had a situation that they handled poorly, and they’re disappointed in how the player has handled it. And I think both sides have to take accountability with that. And I guess they decided, well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna jump ship, and we’re gonna clear the deck and, yeah, we’ll save some money, and, you know, we’ll get out. I think we
Nestor Aparicio 36:19
are shrinking brand financially, I think Bob Ryan and Dan Sean has seen those guys. When they come on, they talk about the Red Sox being a deep number three in that community. And I see a lot of empty seats there, in a way that, and there was such a huge demand small ballpark January ball, can I ask taking a lot of money off of every fan for a long, long time. I’m saying, like, it was a premium, premium thing to just walk in there for 20 years at a high level, in the same way the Camden Yards was that for five years where, like, full price, everybody all the time, full all the time, and then it becomes not that. And I think the tumbling of revenue that falls from the optics of that, let alone whatever the buy rate are on these and the metrics on clicks, and the metrics on what they’re trying to do, in a general sense, when they haven’t been as competitive. I just think that that in a place like that, I think revenue falls a little bit, and I think that worries people. I’m just saying that
Luke Jones 37:19
fair enough. You know, you talk a lot about it like, for attendance, where, where was the goal? Like, what? What do you see as being good attendance at this point in time? Because I
8Nestor Aparicio 37:31
because, I guess for me, I look back at this and I look, I just think it’s a leading stat. Right attendance. Are you buying tickets for five? You know what I mean? Because I go into Yankee Stadium. I was in New York on Thursday, I had the option to go to the Mets. Because I
Luke Jones 37:45
don’t, to be honest, I don’t think attendance is that big of a problem. I think television is the problem. I think that’s where, I think that’s the major driving force here, because I’m not sure attendance is appreciable, like is markedly worse than it was 10 years ago or 15. You know, they always say attendance
Nestor Aparicio 38:03
is always think it needs to get better to generate revenue. It’s going to it’s going to tell you more people are watching on TV. It’s, it’s not just an a window dressing dressing thing. And I think it is impressive when they get bobble heads away and they can get 41 45,000 people down there, it tells you what it could be. It gives you some potential for how good it can be if they don’t give stuff away. And it also tells you where their base is, where the enthusiasm is, and come on, man, you’re out there every day, the enthusiasm is way down, which tells you, I mean, just a barometer. It’s just a barometer. Man, you know, I
Luke Jones 38:36
8don’t think the Orioles are a good example of that right now. I mean, they cut off to a horrendous start. I mean, of course, of course, enthusiasm is going to be down now, and
Nestor Aparicio 38:44
that’s going to take revenue down when there’s less people there, there’s less people, less people that just less of everything that not for their for their signage. I mean, why is market just giving them a half million dollars and let you know that is what it is. But I
Luke Jones 38:58
don’t think that’s an indictment of the sport. I think that’s just if the Ravens had a lousy year ago, look at what the attendance is going to be the last three home games of the season. I mean, there’s not gonna be anyone there. Those will be sold, but they’ll be sitting there, like, like, fish out of water, on the on the secondary market. I mean, you have to have a product that people want to watch. Yeah, of course, attendance. Of course, attendance and enthusiasm is going to be down when they’re terrible. I don’t know what you want people to do then. I mean, people aren’t going to come out and watch
Nestor Aparicio 39:29
a battle. I think there’s a perception with the new guy, they was gonna spend a lot of money, and they spent a lot of money. I mean, they’ve
8Luke Jones 39:34
spent it foolishly for the most part. Yeah. I mean, they didn’t spend it on long term deals, but in terms of a one year spending. They their payroll is considerably higher than it was last year, or certainly two or three years ago. Now, they were also at the very bottom. So, yeah, you get to a point where it’s all you can go is you can only go one place, but up. But yeah, this is why this has been such a disastrous year for them. You know, what’s happened on the field is one thing. But yeah, there are. Major financial ramifications and fallout for that. There’s no doubt about it, in a in a place that doesn’t have a a gigantic pool of fans to draw from, right? I mean, New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, bigger markets.
Nestor Aparicio 40:16
I’m sure when Rubenstein went to buy this, they’re like, Mr. Rubenstein, you know what a sweat Swat, right? Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, right? You know, what’s the real threat to all this? Well, you know, extermination, because the players in the in the owners have never gotten along. They hate each other. They go to war every chance they can. They kick each other into balls every chance they can. Let me tell you about collusion. Let me tell about Marvin mill. Let me tell you the reserve clause, Mr. Rubenstein. You familiar with Kurt flood, how about the Whistler? Does he know about Jackie Robinson and Curt Flood? You know? I mean, like this has been war for 100 years, so now you’re gonna step into this. And the last guy, by the way, took the union side. So I call you Mr. Pro union. Luke Jones. I mean, we had old Sam Gompers here in Baltimore in 1994 saying, you know, hey, look, you know, I’m on, I’m on Cal side. You damn owners, an old net Steinbrenner, you know? Like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. I just know it’s always been awful. And I know when I start seeing $200 million contracts getting sold off, and I see that the problem with young people, and I’m going to put you in that category for now to make you feel good. Gen X, Gen Z, wherever we are, cutting cords. All the New Englanders cutting cords. The optics of seeing Fenway Park not vibrant, just in a general sense, and thinking like, well, you know, and I hear the reporters that have been there a million years tell me that, and then they’re selling off. And I’m thinking to myself, you know, I mean, the $50 million a year just doesn’t fall off a tree, even for the really rich guys, because the really rich guys didn’t get rich by like, throwing money over the boat, the way Peter Angelos did at Jeff Conine and David Segui 20 years ago. I mean, they’re just going to manage this to whatever they need to manage it, and I don’t know what Mr. Rubenstein, so I really don’t like, I don’t have any play on any of this, but I think the fan base here might want to, or should I know that they’re not spending money on the television network or any of the broadcast or, you know, it doesn’t feel appreciably different or better in most ways, and other going to rip up the stadium. That’s going to be the real value added for the ownership group when they flip this thing five years from now, is going to be that the stadium is going to be more lovely. And they just think that’s going to piss out revenue, Luke. They think that’s going to fund Rafael Devers, that’s going to fund Gunnar Henderson, that’s going to fund Juan Soto. That’s what they really believe. I don’t know what else they could believe. And I’m trying. I try to figure it out with Marty Conway. I try to figure it out with Maury brown two weeks ago. I try to figure it out with Rob Manfred. If he was here, he would sit with me. Katie Griggs would sit with me. I’d say, tell me how you’re growing revenue beyond ways that I just I don’t envision that your club level is going to become the Riviera, and you’re just going to triple charge everybody that’s already there, and where are the new fans coming from? Like I and that’s my issue for all of it. So when I see a sell off like this a little bit, and I think about the backdrop of the game a little bit, and I see the Orioles trying to grow and can’t, right now, I just, I worry for them, that’s all. And I really worry for them on Friday nights when they take the games off television. For me, you know, Melanie Newman warned me that they’re playing at 11 the morning Sunday, though, right? That’s correct, yeah, okay, it’s,
Luke Jones 43:32
it’s the Roku game. It’s free. I mean, it’s free, literally, if you have a smart TV, it’s free download roku. And you, and I don’t think you even need to, you know, you don’t have to sign up for anything. It’s not something that’s charged, but at the same time, you’re talking about them wanting to grow their brand, right? That’s why they’re doing stuff like that. Streaming is the way of the world. Man, like cable and satellites not going to exist in 20 years. Might not exist until
Nestor Aparicio 43:56
8me that you have you’re having a better experience streaming.
Luke Jones 43:58
I am, I am, I will, and I will and I will give them credit for this, because I went up in the interest of fairness with all the things that I’m critical of, I like the fact that I have signed up for mass and plus, I have said that while this the stream of the live game has worked well for me, the app itself is extraordinarily limited. You can’t pause, you can’t rewind. There’s no on demand. So this past week, they put out a press release noting that you can now purchase mass and plus through MLB s website with mlb.tv basically, they’re brokering it in the way that a lot of other teams, like the Mets with sny, they do it the Phillies. I think the Phillies their NBC, sports, Philly. I think that you can get through Peacock, but the point is you can now get that through mlb.tv if you already had a mass and subscription like I had you, they have integrated it into MLB TVs overall package, which is basically sun. A ticket, you know, for lack of a better description for people aren’t who aren’t familiar. And now I can actually watch the Orioles through the MLB TV app, pause, rewind, fast forward. I can now flip to the Phillies game during a commercial, and I don’t have to jump out of one app and into another one. It is 100 times better viewing experience. So I will give the Orioles credit for that, and I’m guessing that will probably help their sales a little bit, in the sense that you don’t just have to go to Mason’s website. And as we already
Nestor Aparicio 45:30
see, this straight for the 20 bucks a month, you’re getting the Padres game all night if you
Luke Jones 45:36
want. No, no, no, no, no. It’s only in that. See, I already had an MLB TV subscription because I got it for they did a sale a month ago, I think for the RET the rest of the season, for like $65 or whatever. So, but I can now watch the Orioles in MLB TV. It’s, it’s rolled over my subscription into that. So now I can get every single game. So
8Nestor Aparicio 46:00
you bought the for my planet fitness, right? You bought the black card, uh, basically by by, you bought the league pass and the mass and pass the mass and pass lives inside of the baseball network thing. So you essentially had everything in that app except the Orioles before. Yes, right? Yeah, you would watch the Padres late or the Devers play for the Giants, whatever you want to do, right?
Luke Jones 46:23
Yeah, which, you know, for $70 I got it in like mid May for $70 for the rest of the year. That was $70 that I get basically every out of market baseball game that there is to get. So for me, I can watch the Phillies. I I can watch the pirates, you know, if Paul Skeens is pitching, and I want to see that. I’m going to watch Otani pitch on Monday night. You know, I’d be remiss. You know, we mentioned it in passing, so, but the point is, it’s now under one umbrella, and now Masson has the ability that if someone goes to MLB TV to sign up, they have their overall package, which is still the out of market package, which is what I was talking about, which I had bought a month ago, but now they also, if you click on it, and in fact, I’ll do this in real time, just looking at it right now, there are a number of teams that have their their version of massen that you can buy on MLB TV, the A’s, the Guardians, the Diamondbacks, The Giants, the padres, the Phillies, the Rockies, the twins, sn LA, which is the Dodgers, sny, which is the Mets and massen. So basically MLB TVs now helping mass and by brokering their you know that that someone can go to that website now and purchase the mass and subscription. And like I said, you can watch it in a much better app, better interface, and it’s just, it’s more convenient, rather than how I was having to do with the last couple of weeks, which was click on the mass and app, sit through an ad, click on it, hope it works. I mean, it’s a horrible app. I mean, it’s, it’s terrible. And if I wanted to, if I was watching the Phillies game at the same time. If I wanted to flip to that, I’d have to get out of the mass and app, get into the MLB team. And that part of that is just the that’s the headache about
Speaker 1 48:11
you’re already 30 seconds behind when, when it’s right. And if you’re on Twitter, somebody hits a home run, you find out later. And let me be clear, as someone who’s now been a cord cutter for the better part of six months, and I was streaming things before, but before that, I still had a satellite subscription.
Luke Jones 48:26
8You’re one of them, millennials. The drawback of streaming is that it’s a little bit more of a pain in the butt, to quote, channel surf between things, because, yeah, you do have to, you know, if you’re watching a game on one app and you’re trying to watch a game on another app. Yeah, you got to flip out of one and into the other. And to your point, you might have to sit through an ad so, you know, long
Nestor Aparicio 48:46
watch all in the family. You had to get up and change the channel. Eat it. Oh, you change a channel for me, you know. So
Luke Jones 48:54
you’ll appreciate this. I currently have a streaming service that doesn’t have the local channels. I have a little mini antenna that sits on my window in the living room. And I get all the Baltimore channels, since I’m so close to the Mason Dixon Line, and I get to Pennsylvania channels so I can get local news for, you know, Southern York County, Pennsylvania, but, but, yeah, I have an antenna. So as much as we think about things like, oh, like New Age and streaming and all that, I also have gone back in time that I have an antenna that I
Nestor Aparicio 49:28
convection of and I got a toaster. So it’s fun. No, I
8Luke Jones 49:32
actually, I’ve actually had a little bit of it’s been fun with the the indoor antenna, and it wasn’t that expensive, and I happen to have a good view of the southern sky in my front yard that, you know, my living room. I just have a antenna up on the window, and I get channel 211, 1345, 67 and I get channel eight and channel 21 in Pennsylvania. So has me all set for those channels. And then I have streaming. Get the few cable channels that I want.
Nestor Aparicio 50:03
Oh look, man, you tried to fix the Raven secondary for years, and they finally addressed it. Then you tried to fix their wide receiver for you. They’ve, we’ve been trying to get them to fix mass and for years, Greg Bader knocked it out of the park with this. I don’t know if
Luke Jones 50:15
I’d say knock it out of the park, but it’s better, at least. And I mean, this is what teams are going to have to do. I mean, this, and this is why the the next CBA, the next television contract. I mean, we’ve already talked about it with ESPN and what’s going to happen there. I mean, it’s messy. Everyone is trying to carve out what’s next. I mean, the NBA, you know, they they’ve moved on from Turner, NBC, is going to be back in the you know, how’s that going to look? But also, Amazon and peacock are part of that television deal, a prominent parts of that television deal. So, you know the NFL, we’ve seen it now. I mean, Netflix is the Christmas home of the NFL now. I mean, it’s so everyone is looking for their piece of the pie, and it’s, it’s a scary place to be, especially when you’re talking about local TV money for Major League Baseball. But I think it also applies for the NBA and the NHL right now. I mean, they’re all trying to figure out what this is going to look like when RSNs are going to be dinosaurs in a few years. I mean, they’re, they’re all going to be gone. And other than, you know, and the the drawback, you know, and this is where it’s going to really be interesting when the NF or when baseball does have a lockout in a couple years. I mean, whether it’s going to be three months or for a full season, the Yankees are still profitable with, yes, the the Dodgers are still very profitable with their regional sports network. I mean, the handful of teams that still have that it still works for. They don’t want to let that go look. But Atlantic
Nestor Aparicio 51:43
8City went to hell in a hand basket. There were two or three casinos still making money. Everybody else was out of business, right? Like, yeah, so,
Luke Jones 51:50
but, but everyone. But the point is with and then those places made more money they will. But at the same time, there’s still going to be a threshold here. There’s still going to be a breaking point. There’s going to be a breaking point for the NFL at some point now. It might be another 20 years from now that they get to a point and say, All right, we we’ve gone to
Nestor Aparicio 52:10
your point this. I’ll end with this. But this is what makes Sashi brown feel so smart. Is every year he gets up and he breathes the air and the revenues grow. Yeah, that’s fun. That’s that’s not the way it works at wnst. That’s not the way it worked at the Baltimore Sun. That’s not the way it works at ESPN that’s not the way it works at the Baltimore Orioles Katie Griggs. That’s not the way it worked at the Baltimore blast. Or the skip jacks, who were no longer, you know, functioning in the same ways that they once were financially. You know, one point they all had blast, had a big payroll paying guys money like, you know, they they were Canadian football was here for a minute. There are things that pull money out and put money in, and the Orioles are trying to figure out how to get money out competing with the Nationals, because they’ve lost fans, and that money’s there, and it’s never coming back, and they’re not buying the subscription now that they’ve parted ways with mass, which was always like, I never watch a nationals game in my life, only when I got the wrong channel, which happened, you know, three times a week. And my mother would call me what channel they on. Oh, Mom, I’m on city cable. You’re on county cam. I have no idea, Mom, let me come over, you know. So a lot of that was going on even then, and you’re all act up and ml beat and this and that, hey, man, what time’s the game on? How can I get it? What’s the ease again? Then how much does it cost me? And I think that that now becomes another barrier for people that aren’t as engaged as you. And maybe I used to be at least Sure, um, to say, How much is this going to cost me? To be because you’re a customer. You know, we don’t ever think of that. You think I’m a media guy. No, you’re a customer. You’re paying them money now every month like you really are a customer. We all are, and I tried to convince them of that for years. It didn’t feel that way when they were sucking money and siphoning money off the edge of our cable bill. Now they have to direct to consumer, direct direct sales. Yeah,
Luke Jones 54:01
that out they do. And the price point, I mean, it’s it for all these teams right now. I mean, it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 20, $20 is the lower end, you know, that’s the bottom end that you see with most teams i i informally did this a few, like, about a month ago. You know, the higher end teams. I think the Dodgers, their streaming option, I want to say is like $35 a month. Dodgers have won, you know, won the World Series, and obviously had the highest payroll and all that. So, oh no, I’m wrong. 2999 a month. So we’ll see. I mean, it’s all these teams are trying to navigate what it’s going to look like, because it’s just it’s different. Now, I am more than happy to give mass in $20 a month, if it means I’m not giving direct TV $185 a month. Now to have a service that includes massen, but for the team itself, they’ve got to identify. I The all of the fans that are willing to pay, and then at what price? And then is that going to be as profitable as the old world, that you got $2 from everybody in the market? Now you’re getting $20 from
8Nestor Aparicio 55:16
those willing to think it’s worth 20 sure liked it when it was on their cable thing, but can, kind of like, just follow the games and say how much and what stream and what options and what credit card do I have to give them, and am I having to pay them in November? And are they rolling it into my tickets? And am I a bird land consumer? Am I not? Am I just a guy that wants to show up at the ballpark once in a while? Me? I don’t want to be in the club. I just want to put the game on. I’ll go over to Costas at the racetrack and watch it now. I mean, like, there’s a lot of ways that they’re chasing people away and beyond being a jackass to me, quite frankly, all these years later. But I just I wonder. And then, to your point, if you wake up a Red Sox fan today, you’re pissed off for baseball reasons for legitimate baseball reasons, as you would say, right?
Luke Jones 56:03
Yeah, but, but I but I think I see a lot of what was chasing people away is cable and satellite becoming so bloated in general. I mean, that that’s the whole genesis of the cord cutting. You know the idea now where it’s like, I don’t need to have 150 channels with nothing on TV that I don’t really watch and I spend all that money, whereas I now have gotten rid of that, I have YouTube TV or sling or something like that that gives me some live channels. And I like Netflix because it’s got a great catalog that I can go watch something and binge it at any time. I don’t have to wait for eight o’clock on Tuesday night to watch my favorite show. I can just watch it then. So it really is a new world. And I mean, that whole business, Kate, you know, television in general, is just fascinating right now, as far as what it’s going to look like, I mean, I follow that stuff as someone who’s a cord cutter now, and I mean, you wouldn’t believe the stuff that is going to be going away. I mean, it’s, you know, Warner discovery, just, you know, with Turner. I mean, that there’s gonna be a split there. I mean, after that was thought of as being like this media superpower that was forming here over the last year or two, and what’s that going to mean for TNT and TBS? I mean, like staples of of cable TV. I mean, are there are those channels going to exist in five years? I mean, I don’t know. Man, it’s, crazy. I mean, it really is. But sports as a collective entity is kind of what the only thing that’s propping up, you know, whatever’s left of cable and satellite and live TV otherwise, I mean, it’s all becoming an on demand world where, I mean, one of my favorite shows, the chosen, you know, it’s a show about Jesus. You know, his life, his ministry. Amazon is carrying the newest season of that. You know, Amazon just launched it Sunday night, the first couple episodes are on, and then next weekend, they’ll have the next three episodes available, right? I mean, that’s, that’s how TV is done now, largely and Happy Days at eight o’clock Tuesday. It’s very different. It’s just very different, and people love it because there’s more flexibility. It doesn’t, you know, Netflix. I subscribe to Netflix. It’s 850 a month, or something like that. I have it with the ads. People will pay more without ads. I mean, it just, it’s a very different, severed, fragmented place. You know, it’s a fragmented world that
Nestor Aparicio 58:25
and only people truly addicted to any of it or really have to reach. It’s very, very intentional for you to reach for any of these things, for whatever reason you reach for that it is because when you start stacking them all up, and you buy all of them and you see that it’s 90 bucks a month at the end of the month, you’re gonna think differently, the way I thought about the Baltimore Sun, and I was on the phone for an hour over in the Philippines, trying to get off the phone. Yeah,
Luke Jones 58:51
8I mean, and let me be clear, if I bought everything that it that there is to buy out there, I’d be spending just as much, if not more, than I spent on satellite. But I don’t I’m more selective. I still have plenty. Don’t get me wrong, like I I have sling, which gives me 50 cable channels, like, you know, ESPN, ESPN to TNT, TBS, been able to watch hockey, NBA Playoffs, and, you know, like,
Nestor Aparicio 59:14
room Thursday, and wondered if it had TNT. It did, yeah, but I checked out of a bar between the end of regulation, and I went back. I was just tired. I’m like, Yeah, I walked 20 miles in New York, and I was ready to go to bed. It was 10 o’clock at night. I went to Glengarry, Glen Ross Yeah. Like, Hey, man, I I hope it’s on in the room. And at Channel 33 there was tbs. I thought I got a chance here. I got a chance to have TNT, but that’s
Speaker 1 59:37
but that’s the crazy, craziness. You never would have thought twice about TNT being on something or not. It just was right. I told you this. I started the baseball season having fubo Because they carried Masson before Mass and put out their direct to consumer option. You know why I didn’t like fubo? You know why I didn’t stick with it? One it was pricier, you know, a little more expensive than I wanted. They didn’t have TBS and TNT. T so there you go. I can’t watch half of the hockey playoffs. I can’t watch half of the NBA Playoffs. So once massen Did their direct to consumer thing, I said, All right, I’m doing that. I’m getting slings. Slings cheaper doesn’t have as many channels overall, but it has TBS and TNT. You know, it’s crazy, dude, you’re made kind of a puzzle, like it’s making their own point here, where TNT has had the big breakup with the basketball freaky, you know, like all that, everything that’s going on with that, with Turner, and it’s just, it’s a business decision. Up the thing. They don’t care about Charles Barkley, they don’t care about the jet, they don’t care about any of that.
Luke Jones 1:00:34
You know, they’ll be on ESPN next year. I mean, inside the NBA is going to be on ESPN.
8Nestor Aparicio 1:00:38
I mean, that’s the world we’re in at this point. Lucas, here, I’m here. We’re not changing. We’re still wnsd Baltimore, positive. We’re not dealing Rafael Devers to the west coast, but we are watching the Orioles go down to South West Florida, take on the George Steinbrenner field, take on the rays. So I’ll be doing a little baseball this week. Luke will be out of training camp for the Ravens this week, Lamar Jackson will be out there Tuesday and Wednesday, we will be at the Y and Randallstown on Tuesday, doing the Maryland crab cake tour. It is our 27th anniversary. We’re gonna begin to crow about that on August the third, I’m doing my 27 favorite things to eat in Baltimore. It’s gonna be a lot of fun. Put a lot of thought into it, and I really want to take care of local businesses, and I want people to go out and experience some of my favorite things that I actually eat sometimes. I don’t put them all on social media, so there. So some people are gonna get are going to get some surprises when I show up in their place. So it won’t be quite like like Guy Fieri, but I will eat my face off and be very, very enthusiastic about my favorite things to eat, as enthusiastic as a skinny guy could be at this point. So my thanks to Planet Fitness for that. Uh, he is Luke. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, talking deals and strikes and cable and streaming and cord cutting and all that fun stuff powering the business of baseball. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us.
