What “needs” does Elias see in the current state of last-place Orioles?

Where do the Baltimore Orioles go in this offseason of many needs and even more questions about their young talent? Luke Jones and Nestor debate the team’s youthful core, including Gunner Henderson, Adley Rutschman, and Jackson Holliday, noting the need for improved performance and health in 2026.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Orioles’ 2025 outlook, highlighting Kyle Bradish and Trevor Rogers’ encouraging performances as potential positive signs for next season. They debated the team’s young talent, including Gunner Henderson, Adley Rutschman, and Jackson Holliday, noting the need for improved performance and health. They emphasized the importance of acquiring a top-tier bat and a new manager to enhance the team’s prospects. Despite recent improvements, they remain skeptical about the current roster’s ability to compete, particularly in the pitching department.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Evaluate the Orioles’ young position players, such as Rutschman, Henderson, and Mayo, and determine which ones can be counted on as core pieces for the future.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Hire a new manager and coaching staff that can help develop the Orioles’ young talent and put them in the best position to succeed.
• [ ] Assess the Orioles’ pitching staff and determine if Bradish and Rogers can be relied upon as top-of-the-rotation starters next season.
• [ ] Identify and acquire a legitimate middle-of-the-order bat, either through free agency or trade, to strengthen the Orioles’ lineup.

Orioles’ Current Season and Future Outlook

• Nestor Aparicio discusses the Orioles’ current season, noting they are not mathematically eliminated and mentions upcoming events like the Maryland crab cake tour and Raven scratch offs.
• Nestor highlights the importance of the last seven games against the Yankees and the encouraging performance of Kyle Bradish, who pitched 88 pitches in five innings in September.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the significance of playing spoiler in the remaining games and the potential for optimism in 2026, particularly with Bradish and Rogers’ performances.
• Nestor and Luke debate the current state of the Orioles’ pitching and the potential for a 90-win team next year, with Nestor being more skeptical about the current roster’s capabilities.

Evaluating Young Talent and Management

• Nestor and Luke discuss the performance of young players like Gunner Henderson, Adley Rutschman, and Jackson Holliday, with Nestor being more critical of their current abilities.
• Luke defends Henderson’s performance, noting he has been a top-eight shortstop this year despite some setbacks.
• Nestor and Luke debate the need for a new manager and coaching staff, with Nestor being more critical of the current management and Luke acknowledging the need for fresh perspectives.
• Luke mentions the potential for new leadership in the front office, with Mike Elias becoming the president of baseball operations, and the importance of hiring experienced personnel.

Challenges and Opportunities for the Orioles

• Nestor and Luke discuss the challenges faced by the Orioles, including injuries, soft tissue issues, and the need for better strength and conditioning.
• Luke highlights the importance of having a strong manager and coaching staff to help develop the young talent and improve overall performance.
• Nestor and Luke debate the potential for players like Kobe Mayo, Heston Kjerstad, and Tyler O’Neill, with Nestor being more skeptical about their long-term prospects.
• Luke emphasizes the need for a legitimate top-half starter and the importance of acquiring a legitimate bat to solidify the lineup.

Future Plans and Expectations

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for the Orioles to improve next year, with Nestor being more skeptical and Luke being more optimistic.
• Luke mentions the importance of hiring a new manager and coaching staff to help develop the young talent and improve overall performance.
• Nestor and Luke debate the potential for players like Bradish and Rogers to become top-tier starters and the need for additional pitching depth.
• Luke emphasizes the importance of acquiring a legitimate bat to solidify the lineup and the need for a comprehensive offseason plan to address the team’s weaknesses.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles progress, offseason needs, Kyle Bradish, Trevor Rogers, Adley Rutschman, Gunner Henderson, pitching staff, young talent, manager search, player development, bullpen issues, lineup improvements, front office changes, team performance, future outlook.

SPEAKERS

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Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 task of Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. We are taking the Maryland crab cake tour out on the road all fall long. Got a whole bunch of dates. I got some stuff. I’m kind of keeping close to the vest here, because, I mean, the Orioles aren’t mathematically eliminated Yes, I can’t just make my October plans right away. I will have Raven scratch offs to give away. I have the pressure locks in the lucky sevens at the Beaumont this week, I got great guests at the Beaumont this week. We get an extra day to talk about the Orioles this week because the Ravens don’t play until Monday night against the Detroit Lions. Luke Jones will be very busy this week, with football getting into the weekend, and the Ravens sort of move everything back a day. So you’ll be hearing from us around the weekend as well as we sit around all day on Sunday and watch football and all day Saturday. If you’re a college football person out there and you know who you are, Luke, they’re still playing baseball. I mean, I know it’s hard for some people to get around this, especially in the south side of Chicago, where I’m sure the Elotes were delicious. And there’s business being done here, even if there’s guys coming out of the bullpen that I would lose a bet with Mike resigliana about what their first names are, because I’ve never heard of their last names. In many cases, this has been a tryout the last six weeks, and some guys are passing the test, and other guys, like Colton cows are can inspire and just make you say, you got to be, you got to be kidding me, all in the same ball game, but you have to be watching this. Not everybody’s watching it. I just want to give a little oxygen, especially with the Orioles at ravens having an extra day this week. You know, playing to the finish line matters. The back of the bubble car. Gump card matters, but Kyle Bradish going out and thrown 88 pitches in five innings in September and looking healthy enough to do it, dude, you and I sat here for six months and wonder whether that was going to be possible.

Luke Jones  01:55

Yeah. I mean, you’re at this point in time when you’re playing out the string, and the best you can do as it pertains to 2025 is the play spoiler. I mean, they’ve, they’ve got, what, seven more games with the Yankees here over the last couple weeks of the season. So that’s interesting in and of itself as it pertains to the rest of baseball. But if you’re the Orioles and you’re an Orioles fan, you’re looking at what’s giving hope and optimism for 2026 and certainly the way that Kyle Bradish has come back, and the way he’s looked is very encouraging. I mean, you look at and I get it’s the White Sox, but five innings on Monday night, as people were maybe a little more in tune with Monday Night Football, with the doubleheader, but he was pitching and strikes out nine. Command wasn’t great. You know, his commands been better in a couple of these starts than it was Monday night. But you see the stuff, and you see multiple plus pitches, and you’re reminded that, oh yeah, this guy finished fourth and Cy Young voting two years ago.

Nestor Aparicio  02:55

It looks different than Charlie Morton Sagano. It just looks different than anything we’ve seen this side of burns or Rodriguez when he was right and Bradish when he was right. And I don’t even know if we’ve seen five minutes of anything like this from any of the Cade poviches or any of any of any of them right like, I mean, this is different kind of stuff. And I think we’ve seen Trevor Rogers the last six weeks, left side, different, yeah, you know. But the balance of being able to come back with a with a righty lefty, and look, this is no BS for Katie Griggs or for michaelias, who’s now the team. Did the executive? Did you get the corner office? I watched a lot of baseball. I mean, you can’t sell me and you on bullshit. You know what? I mean, like, the next six months, we’re going to sit here and talk about whether they have a chance next year or whether they don’t. And strangely enough, you’re tougher on them than I am. I mean, you really have been the last five years, seven years, right? Like you’re just tougher on them than I am in the off season, because you’re a true believer, and I’ve sat here for 42 years shaking my head and watching the new owner, and have people ask me about it and say, you know, I don’t smell anything here that smells great, but when I smell pitching, I know that. And Brad is coming back, and Rogers coming back changes the narrative of where you and I were at the All Star break, and that was eight weeks ago, but it changes the whole offseason now the bats, different story. Has to curse that all of these names like that could just be going away. You know, Adley ruchman. I mean, besides you all these names, but the pitching you’re going to sell Luke Jones and Nestor Aparicio, after 100 years of watching baseball between the two of us that we’re going to sit here in October, November, December, January and February and carry their water as a potential 90 win team next year, just the team that can be in the a relevant team, not 102 wins, not wire to wire in this division, where everybody’s going to spend money. I’m. And the Red Sox have young talent too. And the obviously, the Blue Jays are what they are. Saw what that was over the weekend. But the pitching, you and me, I’m a week and a half out and getting through the Yankees and what I don’t care whether they win or lose, about saying if these two guys are their pitchers next year, you can sell me on Henderson, and hope you can sell me on holiday. You could sell me on casual bounce back and strike out less, especially with the bases loading was getting hit by a pitch. You could sell me on ruchman. I mean, you could sell me on any of the guys with the high ceiling, but you can’t, don’t be asked me about pitching. You know what? I mean, like you, you, I tried to BSU in the off season, and you and I got into it until I sat with you and shining, and Allen and all you guys are looking at me, saying, Come on, dude, be tougher on them. And I’m like, What’s Mr. Rubens telling you? Get my I mean, I wasn’t a true believer, but I thought they hit the ball lot better than they’ve hit the ball

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Luke Jones  06:01

well. And if you recall, that’s what I was pounding the table about the second week of April, where you wanted to get off to, where I was just like, look, I mean, this was never and this is where I’ll I don’t want to make this sound like I stand up for Mike Elias in this as in this instance, because I didn’t like the off season, but they were constructed to be led by their offense, right? The design of the team, the philosophy on what they were supposed to be in 2025 was these young guys taking the next step, and in many cases, guys have stepped backwards, let alone talking about taking a step forward. So that’s that’s still going to be a part of this, right? They’re going to need guys to come back and be healthy. They’re going to need guys to take the next step. You know, Gunner Henderson still had a really good year in a vacuum, but it hasn’t been as good as it was last year. It certainly hasn’t been anywhere close to where it was the first half of last year, where, I mean, we were talking about him as being maybe the MVP of the league.

Nestor Aparicio  07:00

But it’s that leadership level, championship quality. They need three of those guys. Every team, sure, every team that’s going to win 100k take any of those Yankees teams with all the big money and all of that that win games multiple guys. You need dudes, dudes. That’s it,

Luke Jones  07:17

and it can’t. And to be clear, and this is where I want to be fair to be fair to Henderson, because again, he’s had a much better year than most of his contemporaries in that lineup. He can’t do it by himself. Mike Trout in Anaheim, the last decade plus will prove to you that you can’t do it by yourself. I mean, heck, he had Otani next to him, and they still couldn’t weren’t any good because they didn’t have nearly enough around them. But to go back to what you said about Bradish and Rogers. More and more, it’s looking and short of an injury here over the last two weeks. Heaven forbid anything like that happens. And, you know, I mean, obviously you’re still seeing, I mean, Albert Suarez was just put back on the IO with an elbow issue now, right? I mean, it’s, it’s baseball, it’s 2025, in baseball. It’s arm injuries everywhere

Nestor Aparicio  08:05

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but, and Suarez is like closer to my age than yours. You know,

Luke Jones  08:10

not quite, but he’s certainly up there in age. But lo siento. Mi amigo, but. But I think when you look at Bradish and Rogers now, and here’s the difference between looking at those two now compared to July, where at that point you’re saying, okay, Rogers, this is looking good. We’ll see about Bradish. He’s getting ready to go out on his rehab assignment. Back in June, you were saying, all right, Bradish is on schedule. But is it August? Is it September? And Rogers has looked good for a few starts, but let’s see what it looks like as he continues to get the ball every fifth day now at your as you’re at the point where Trevor Rogers has done this for three months now, right? Hasn’t been a whole season. It hasn’t been three

Nestor Aparicio  08:51

seasons. Important about it. You know what it is? It’s right now, sure, it’s not 2017 or 2021 or during the covid or a year and a half ago, or what Grayson was doing two years ago, or, like, it’s what’s it’s what’s current. What’s current right now is Adley ruchman’s Not a one one. What’s current right now is, I wouldn’t give gunner Anderson $500 million and say he’s a dude for sure. Bet my life on it. I don’t, you know, I like, Westbrook can’t get stay on the field. Counselors got holes in his swings Jackson holiday, you know? Okay, besides, they already signed it. And then another talk about what, besides just other words, going to play, right? So we don’t have a lot of debate here in the off season. I mean, Tyler O’Neill, they gave him a million dollar get put on the right field, and they cross their fingers and try to keep him out of the weight room, keep him off the protein shakes, you know, like I, I don’t, the debate here is going to be how much money David Rubenstein is going to spend. Mike Elias is power over all of this, and what he’s going to do, and what they’re going to do with this young talent, which is a little beaten up, man, it’s a little like back in the back of. Grocery store where stuff’s three days old, and you’re like, you know, what are you gonna I mean, what are you getting in deals for anybody that isn’t good enough to think that he’s gonna hit 280 in the big leagues and be that 20 to 40 home run guy, depending on what you think he’s gonna be, right? If these guys are gonna hit 231 and not draw walks and strike out 150 times a year. Can’t win with that dude, even with good pitching,

Luke Jones  10:24

agreed, but that’s where I think you have to look at, who is the manager going to be, who are the coaches going to be? And I think that’s where you look at this. That’s why and look, people will point out this club has played okay under Tony mancellino In the big picture, sense, that thing about there were 18 games under 500 May, 23 or 24th whatever,

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Nestor Aparicio  10:47

they didn’t hire Brandon Hyde. How would it have been different or better?

Luke Jones  10:50

I mean, who knows, but that said, and I wasn’t

Nestor Aparicio  10:54

a bad manager, by the way. I just want to stand up for him for 30 seconds. I mean, it’s

Luke Jones  11:00

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look, are there bad managers in baseball? Have there been bad managers in the history of baseball? Yes, of course. Have there been plenty of managers that are the first to go because you can’t fire the entire roster, or you can’t fire the entire front office in the middle of the season?

Nestor Aparicio  11:14

He was a genius two years ago, right? You know? But, but my point, the point

Luke Jones  11:18

that I’m trying to make, is, when you have young players that you’re mentioning, and as you mentioned, they’re guys that are weathered in some way, dented cans in some way, whatever, however you want to look at it. I mean, there are guys that have taken some lumps, there’s no doubt about it, right? And guys that are complete unknown still, like Kobe mayo, for example, who has had a couple stretches where he’s looked good, and then he’s had a lot where he’s looked lost, but he’s also 23 I saw someone on social media just, you know, just informed, educated Orioles fan noted that go look at Chris. Chris Davis’s developmental timeline, from the time he was with the rangers to being traded with the Orioles to eventually becoming the guy that hit 35 4050, home runs,

Nestor Aparicio  12:00

bubblegum card, and you may see mayo, because Mayo may wind up doing it with the Giants in 2000 he could nine.

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Luke Jones  12:06

He might, he might, right, so, but that, but that’s for me. Rather than looking at all these young players and saying, Okay, well, that guy hasn’t worked out, that guy hasn’t worked out, that guy. And look, let’s be clear, there might be one or two from the group, and Heston kerstad. I mean, again, the mystery behind that, how, how poorly he fared this year, he might be the guy that I’m not really penciling in in any meaningful way, unless he comes to spring training and looks different, right in the same way that like right now, I can’t plan for Grayson Rodriguez to be in the top three or four of my rotation, but if he is healthy, he’s going to be in that group. I can’t plan for it, but he’s going to be in that group. It’s not like I’m just going to say, Oh no, Grayson, we don’t want you anymore, right?

Nestor Aparicio  12:51

Plan on all of these guys ceilings, right? They all, they’re all first round draft picks. They all have huge ceilings. I just this is where it brings me to his arm being good right now, and guys that are doing it right now, in the big leagues right now, that’s all I can judge it on. All the rest of it, this speculative nonsense. The speculation is what puts towers in Miami. He was the first guy off the boat. He was the first guy they didn’t believe in anymore. All the rest of these guys, they believed in a lot more. It would have been heresy to throw Kobe mayo in that deal a year ago.

Luke Jones  13:23

Well, but I would also say Kyle Stowers is also why you don’t give up on these other guys. Because if you bring in a new hitting coach, or new hitting coaches, or you whoever, and you know, I’ll touch on the Elias becoming president of baseball operations thing. I’m pretty whatever for that. I think if you look and I don’t, I don’t mean that as disrespect to him or to anyone who is a president of baseball operations. I think it’s more title inflation than anything else. I think if you look around many front office around front offices around baseball, and I’ll use the Phillies, because they’re close. They just clinch the NL East. And as you know, I have a brother in law is a rabid Philadelphia sports fan. If you ask anyone who runs the show for the Phillies, they’d tell you Dave Dombrowski, right? They have no idea that Preston Mattingly is their general manager, right? I mean, so I think, unless we find out different, unless there’s something unique about this circumstance, other than the fact that the Orioles quietly did this last winter without making the

Nestor Aparicio  14:30

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Orioles had no formal structure in the Angelo’s family. Sure, sure any real capacity of having two general managers back to danger getting and

Luke Jones  14:39

if you recall Peter after Pat Gillick, Peter didn’t like calling anyone a general manager. It was always a different title. I mean, Dan Duquette was Executive Vice President of baseball operations, right? I mean, it was never so you have some of this. And I guess the point I’m trying to make is, I think most teams do something like this to. To prevent some other team from doing what Toronto tried to do with Dan Duquette a decade ago, which is poach him. Because if you’re just, quote, just a general manager, another team can come calling and say, Hey, we’re going to make you president of baseball operations, and that technically is a promotion, and we can technically hire you away then. So I think this is more that Now that said, it’s an opportunity to bring in another bright mind, maybe someone that has a little more experience, maybe someone that’s been a general manager at some other point in time and and maybe it didn’t go great, but it’s still someone who has value that, hey, this is someone that might be able to help us with this aspect of roster building, or maybe it’s someone who had made some good trades once upon a time in a front office working for someone else, right? So, so you know, you have that part of it. So we’re going to see how the dust settles there. Obviously there it’s going to be someone of note, because you’re not just going to hire, it’s not just going to be some intern that they hire to be a general manager. You think about their current structure. It’s Mike Elias, sigma del and Eve Rosenbaum are their assistant general manager. So are they going to promote one of them to general manager in a way to give them a tip of the cap, or are you going to hire someone from the outside? Right? You and I have talked about this from the time that they

Nestor Aparicio  16:19

Rosenbaum is the one who’s on the climb, right, sure. I mean, she’s like, kimming was and, yeah,

Luke Jones  16:24

they have, I mean, this is, again, where you don’t want to throw out the baby with the bath water, in the sense that they’ve done a lot of good things. To your point, six years ago, seven years ago, when this all completely fell apart, crashed and burned under the Duquette, you know, the end of the Duquette era, there was no structure. You know, they had a very tiny, almost non existent, analytics department, right? So they built out things.

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Nestor Aparicio  16:50

They also had a really weird thing with Brady Anderson and John, I mean, sure, yeah. I mean, you know all of the Rick Dempsey and you know that whole pipeline of who’s doing what? Who’s telling who, what? Who trusts, who can buck get Rick Dempsey on his side for the television broadcast. It was dysfunctional. I mean, they won in dysfunctional. I mean, I bought the Jim Palmer this summer. It’s still dysfunctional. It’s dysfunctional.

Luke Jones  17:16

I Fair enough. I it’s it’s dysfunctional in ways. The point is, there was no structure whatsoever at that point in time. It’s more functional in certain way, at least in certain players.

Nestor Aparicio  17:30

A lame duck manager, they got their manager fired. They finished in last place. Their owner doesn’t know anything about baseball. I’m hearing Ara Gettys really running everything, by the way. So if anybody asked me about Rubenstein, Rubenstein, Rubenstein, I’d be like, look into aragheti, because he’s the young guy. He’s the guy that’s going to own this team. He’s the guy that is overseeing lots of things, because Ruben signs there to get a bobblehead dude. I mean, like, it’s pretty obvious. A year and a half into this, he ain’t Larry Lucchino so and neither is Katie Griggs, but anyway, so far, you know

Luke Jones  18:07

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my point I’m trying to make, and they do have more structure than they had a decade ago because they did not have an analytics department international state did not have a Dominican baseball Academy a decade ago. That’s what I’m trying to say here. Okay, I’m not, you’re, you’re, you’re casting it in a black

Nestor Aparicio  18:24

line to say whether they know how to get a pitching coach, a hitting coach, hire a manager. This guy hasn’t hired he had one manager. He hired Brandon i to be a lame duck guy, to lose 110 games for three years, and then get to hire his guy. And was going to be, we’re going to wait until all of our young guys are ready to bloom, and then we’re going to spend money when the old man’s dead. They talked about this four years ago, right? So now all of this, oh, and we’re going to use the citizens money to move the Jim Henneman press box into left field, and we’re going to build a perch, and we’re going to get an all star game, and we’re going to build a battery, and we’re, I haven’t figured out that they even had to make a baseball team yet. Now, I just gave them all the credit in the world. I mean, they

Luke Jones  19:05

did win 101 games two years ago, Nestor. I mean, see, see, this is where you’re losing credibility with your argument, because it’s, it goes from so much being good until to everything is terrible, right? I mean, there are shades of gray here. There are positive elements and a half

Nestor Aparicio  19:21

of Adley rutschman to have questions. There’s two scenes.

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Luke Jones  19:24

I’m not arguing otherwise, but when you just go from everything is great to everything is terrible, and there’s no nuance in your argument, like, you know, like

Nestor Aparicio  19:32

there’s a last place operation right now, they are I, and I’m trying to pick the pieces up of their lineup to say, but you believe or not believe in Star Wars or and

Luke Jones  19:44

you just said they don’t know how to put together a roster when they just won 101 games two years ago. Now, did they put a put together a good 2025 roster? No, we all agree on that. The point I was trying to make is it’s not necessarily that it went from all being. Good to all is terrible, and then you just blow everything up. I mean, if that were the case, then, yeah, fire everyone. Sure. You know, go hire. I don’t even know who you would hire, right? But the point I was trying to make is they have, they do have more structure than they had seven years ago. Eight years ago. They’ve made a lot of important strides in in ways that help get them to the point that they were last year the year before. And yes, they have leaked oil and they have taken on water. You use whatever metaphor you want to use in terms of things going very badly over the last calendar.

Nestor Aparicio  20:37

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What player on this roster has a thumbs up right now that’s rising, still does.

Luke Jones  20:43

I mean, like gunner Henderson, still, we’re still talking about someone who’s one of the best shortstops in the league. I mean, now that said he has to come

Nestor Aparicio  20:51

out and prove it to me next year, now that he’s not a 265, hitter in a I don’t know Scott roland’s in the Hall of Fame. And I never thought, I never thought, like, Man, I want him to be my guy, but maybe I grew up watching Brooks. Don’t get me

Luke Jones  21:03

wrong, I don’t want to make, I don’t want to make this about sticking up. Like, Gunner Henderson has still been like, a top eight shortstop in baseball this year. I mean, like, and don’t get me wrong,

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Nestor Aparicio  21:12

Angie got I believe in him. He’s gonna get 580 bucks.

Luke Jones  21:16

Well, you just asked me who I believe in. I still believe in gunner Henderson big time, because he’s still been a really good player this year. Has he been the best version of himself? No, but, you know, we’re not talking about Adley rutschman who’s become, you know, this year, he profiled more as like a plus defense and very, very mediocre offensive catcher. I mean, that’s not a one, one, but you know, to answer your question, you know, taking a deep breath here for a

Nestor Aparicio  21:40

moment. No take Anderson’s best year and blink it and make it next year. And I’m in and I’ll believe that. I’ll sell that. I’ll get Katie Griggs and and Mike Elias is water, all that that’s possible. I’m not fighting you on that. I’m fighting you and all the rest of it.

Luke Jones  21:56

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And that’s fine. I guess my my point would be, if you don’t believe in gunner Henderson, then there is no hope for this. Oh, because he’s still, he’s still been ex not, let me, let me rephrase that, relative to expectations, yes, he’s it’s been underwhelming, and I still think him having a rib cage issue in spring training probably put him on a path to not being the best version of himself. But when you look at what he’s done compared to a lot of these guys, and he posts up, he’s played every day since the first week of the season, basically, he’s the least of their problems. But yeah, like to answer your question, Adley rutschman, yeah, my confidence in him is down Jackson holiday. I think mostly I feel okay, like he certainly has been way better than he was last year. It’s been nice to see him have a September like he’s had after July and August weren’t very good for him whatsoever. But am I seeing enough that has me excited that this guy is a dynamic one, one talent that’s going to be a a guy that gets MVP votes over the next few years. I still need to see way more if I’m going to put put them in that category.

Nestor Aparicio  23:06

I see I love even him more than you do. So if we’re going to fight about him, like to me, there’s 1800 of bats next 21 I mean, I understand that Henderson holiday, and besides, oh, because now that they’ve paid him and he’s here, I’m assuming he’s here. I’m assuming he’s not going back anywhere, right? So if he’s here, he’s going to play catch, first base, da, whatever they’re going to do with him, right? That that he will get at bats next year. There’s your 1800 at bats for me, I Westberg. I’d love to give him 600 at bats. I don’t know that he makes it to the post. And I believe in him as much as any of the guy. I mean, he’s my he’s my rich, my gamer guy, you know, but I don’t know what to say about him, but all the rest of it, you’re going to convince me. Tyler O’Neill, Kobe mayo, Heston kerstad, take the field. I mean, just like a horse race, take every other player in the organization not named Henderson holiday. And I’m even giving besides the benefit of the down, it’s only because they paid him because he’s He’s no different than a Kobe mayo or any of the rest of these guys at this point, other than he’s got $80 million behind and he is way younger, yeah, but, but, I mean, they were all high ceiling guys. They were all we’re gonna hit 3540 home runs. They were all one ones. They were all at least going to be Nick Marquez, if we’re putting that bench line in to be a 20 home run, 275, a really good major league ball player that draws walks, plays good defense. I mean, all the intangible parts, whether their arm is a right field arm or a left field arm, you know, whether they were center fielder, which makes them, you know, cows or Mullins or those kind of guys. But just you and I watched a lot of baseball here. I’m trying to and we’re going to sit here in October, and you and I’ll be the only one sitting here watching baseball, one o’clock, four o’clock, seven o’clock Toronto, oh, Philadelphia, my brother in law. Oh, you know, it’s on my timeline all day. And I’ll see good baseball and good baseball teams, and the whole month I’ll. Think, all right, Orioles got to go out and play to get to this next year. Who are there? I’d be like, Buck who are the pile divers? Who are the pile divers? Yeah, and, and I, that’s where my question is, because I thought they were all pile divers the day they were drafted. Right, right? They’re all one. I mean, you

Luke Jones  25:17

love them. You always, you always want to believe in your guys when you draft them. I mean, everyone look, that’s why I always laughed at, laugh at draft grades two days after the NFL Draft. I mean, you know, I mean, and you end up seeing the grades being like, oh, it’s all A’s and B’s, but, you know, to answer your question, I mean, Richmond’s going to be the catcher if he’s if he’s healthy. I mean that, and that’s the big thing that suddenly, you know, it was one thing to talk about the second half of last year, or the performance over the first two and a half months of this year. Offensively, you start to question durability now. I mean two different oblique injuries in the same year. I mean, it’s got to get himself in better shape. And you know, that’s a big piece of this that I don’t expect. You know, if and when Elias has asked the question that he’s going to go into great detail about it, but I really have major questions about their strength and conditioning. I mean, they’re, they have had put aside the arm injuries for pitchers, because that’s everywhere. No one has a clue to keep how to keep pitchers healthy. I mean, the Dodgers, you know, the Dodgers spend more money than anyone and look at what their rotation is looking like in the openers and we saw last October and all that. So put that part of it aside, which I’m not diminishing, that it’s just I’ve got nothing on that right. In the same way that no one in baseball, anyone in baseball is way smarter than I am, has no answer for you that’s satisfactory, but they’ve had a lot of soft tissue, hamstrings, obliques, things of that nature. Where I just asked, like, these guys are in their early to mid 20s, you know, we’re not talking about like, you think of like a out of shape.

Nestor Aparicio  26:58

So I can bring groceries in, right? Yeah. So, so

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Luke Jones  27:02

obviously that, that for me, is a piece to this. But if you’re looking at next year, watch minute catcher bisseo as the other catcher slash, first base slash. So how do you

Nestor Aparicio  27:15

get both of them? What, 450 at bags, and then you’re gonna get both of them off once or twice a week, kind of, sort of, I mean, that’s his own story. Is how they’re going to handle the catching, and how they really feel about basayo as a catcher, whether he’s really going to hit or not, because we don’t know, and rutchman, we don’t know if he’s going to hit and whether he’s going to be Richmond

27:39

again, right? I mean,

Nestor Aparicio  27:41

8

this is a nightmare conversation, if you and I were in Arlington when they were treating me like I had to drink out of the backwater fountain there, and Mark Viviana was, you know, telling me to tell him off. Um, if on that plane ride home we were, we were 23 months out on that now, right, less than two years out on that, if we were to have written a script of disaster for the organization, and keep in mind Peter was alive, then John boy was in the locker room. You know? I mean, there was a lot of things happening. There was no Mr. Rubenstein, no Mr. Araghetti. None of that existed that in this two year period of time that they would atrophy their Bobby wits. You know what I mean, whoever their guys are, it’d be like looking up at the ravens and seeing Lamar flowers, Hamilton, no good, you know? And if they’re no good, you’re the New Orleans Saints and I, and that’s, that’s their last place. They’re in last place. And I’m not going to treat them like a team that won 101 games two years ago, because I can’t look at Adley rutschman as what he was two years ago, or Grayson Rodriguez. You kind

Luke Jones  28:51

of have to though, like, what’s the alternative? I mean, are you just going to get rid of all these young guys? You know what? I mean, like, you kind of, as I’ve said this all year long that they deal Richmond, but I don’t know, right? But in a general sense, there is no path for them to contend without a large chunk of these, this young core, to be some version of a success, right? Whether that means gunner Henderson being an MVP, Adley rutsman Returning to at least fringe all star. Catcher form Jackson holiday looking like a one one. Samuel basayo, regardless of what he blossoms into as a ceiling, at least next year, looks like a guy that you’re really happy that you extended.

Nestor Aparicio  29:33

How many former All Stars do they have? I mean, I’m just just as something. That’s a talking point for Rocco Bacco, right? Former all stars, right? Like, if we’re talking about

Luke Jones  29:42

Westberg twice, Gunner Henderson once, westburg once. I mean, that’s, I mean, Senator Cano is a setup man was an all star a couple years ago, but, but, but that’s where you can’t,

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Nestor Aparicio  29:58

like, like, there’s no path. To addressing every single concern you have, other than that’s why I said, with these young guys, that’s why go, go hire a great manager. Go hire get in shape, your 25 head coach, right? Yeah, we still believe in you. We have to believe in you. We’re not, we’re not going out the market and buying a new third baseman to replace. We’re just not, right?

Luke Jones  30:18

I mean, it’s one thing to talk about Grayson Rodriguez not planning for him. But you can’t not plan for half of your everyday lineup, right? I mean, you have to say, hey, these guys are going to sing or swim. But, you know, we’ve kind of been, you know, you asked me about who am I counting on in

Nestor Aparicio  30:33

whether we believe in it or not? Who do you still believe

Luke Jones  30:36

8

Richmond’s a catcher, I think. And you asked me about those two guys. You have a third catcher on the roster, and it’s not that, Oh, wow. That creates a no. You view it through the lens that besides, you view it through the lens that pasai was either your everyday first baseman or DH but he’s also going to catch twice a week, three times a week, whatever it is. And then you have Alex Jackson, or whoever your third Maverick, Hanley, whoever you want your third catcher to be.

Nestor Aparicio  31:03

Well, world you would be say, Oh, you’d match up with a pitcher or two. Sure, that may, you know, then maybe, maybe it makes sense, right?

Luke Jones  31:11

Maybe you do it that way. And, you know, if you had had a chance to watch Monday’s game specifically, I mean, you know, Ben McDonald said, and I get it, Ben’s going to be positive. He’s talking about the club. He’s on massen, but he made the point that he thinks, besides been a little better as a catcher than he thought he might be. So does that mean he’s going to become a permanent catcher? I don’t think Sam Well, besides going to be a guy that catches 130 games a year, I like even in a world where they trade Adley ruts and you know, I think he’s going to be someone who profiles a little more like, you know, catches, part time catcher, part time first baseman, and probably five years down the line, transitions to first base, D, H, right? I mean, you know, Victor Martinez was a guy like that. I mean, you kind of think about some some guys who did that over the course

Nestor Aparicio  31:57

New Age, but he’s got a hit like that. Is a new age concept

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Luke Jones  32:01

that love versatility,

Nestor Aparicio  32:04

you know that. And BJ sur Hoff was what you know, like all these guys, Gary, Gary Carter and Dale, Dale Murphy, and you know, guys that like great hitters, great players that you need in there. I mean, Otani, let him pitch, right? We got to, we got a football I mean, he played two way.

Luke Jones  32:21

Now he’s a one of one, I mean, but yeah. I mean, you like versatility, and I think it’s going to be interesting to see what happens with him, but rest of the lineup, I mean, look, Kobe mayo, you can’t count on to be your everyday first baseman at this point in time. That’s tough, because he’s 23 as I pointed out to you, I mean, like just using Chris Davis as one example, and I’m not saying he’s going to become Chris Davis, or he’s the same exact player. He’s not a development, not linear, as as much as you’d love it to be. And that that’s why, when you hear these five year plans for organizations, you kind of just laugh. But you know, has Kobe Mayo played at a level over the last two months where he’s played every day to pencil him in and say, I’m going to start him 140 times a year, not really. So what do you do with him? Right? I mean not saying his value. I don’t think his values non existent either. I think other teams would have the same conversation the Orioles are having, or you and I are having right now. Still potential. You still like the fact that he’s young. He seems to have made some strides defensively as a first base

Nestor Aparicio  33:27

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the ability 35 home runs. It’s like a guy with 100 mile an hour, you know, pitch you don’t want to stop, yeah, you’re like, we can fix him. We can fix him, but

Luke Jones  33:35

you don’t know. And it’s not even necessarily, like, quote, fix it’s just like, it’s development. It’s tough. Like, this is really hard at the major league level. Like, you know, the you hear it, and it’s cliche them to jump from triple A to the majors. But, you know, I see enough people, smart people around the game, not just Orioles, people, by any means, that talk about how challenging that can be. So what do you do with him? You know, and at the same time, can you just afford to pencil him in? I say no, right now. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t want them on my roster, that I must trade them, but I’ve got to have a contingency plan there. And it might just be as simple as Samuel basayo might just become much more of the regular first baseman, if it comes down to that. But, you know, there’s, there’s some unknown there. You know, I’m projecting, you know, you project him to be a great, a really good hitter, but until he does it, they’re still unknown in the rest of the infield. Is easy holiday that second gunner, it’s short. No problems there. I mean, regardless of whether you want, you know, certainly want better performance out of those guys compared to the this year. You know, take the next step, Westbrook. Same thing like Westbrook’s put up good numbers this year when he’s been in there. I mean, he has a 799 ops, he has 15 home runs and 304 plate appearances. You project that out to a 162 game season, and you’d love those numbers. But, man, you got to stay on the field. And I get. It. Some of it has been fluky stuff. I mean, last year he had his hand fractured by a pitch, right? I mean, there’s no, there’s no, oh, you’re not in shape for there’s your comparison to marcacas, right there, right? Like, but he’s got to stay on the field. Like, he can’t have a hamstring injury like he had earlier this year, right? You’ve got to stay on the field. You’re too important outfield I think is interesting because, you know, you and I have used Colton cowser as, like a fun case study to to, you know, to kind of just debate and go back and forth over but I’ll be honest with you, I kind of feel better about Dylan beavers right now. And it’s, it’s been a small sample, but have you seen his walk numbers? I mean, I mean, this kid has, and he’s fallen off a little bit with the bat in terms of the production, bat to ball production, but it’s been in the big leagues three weeks. But he has a 421, on base percentage. He has 20 walks in 96 plate appearances. He has more walks than Dylan Carlson, who’s played two and a half times more than him this year. He has more walks than Ryan mountcastle, who has over 300 plate appearances. So that’s not to say he’s a perfect known commodity at this point in time, but I feel better. I’m more encouraged by what I’ve seen from him. Now, cows are that doesn’t mean I’m giving up on him, but my goodness, man, he’s got 114 strikeouts and 325 plate appearances. And you know me, I’m not a guy that minds strikeouts. But there’s a point that comes to a point, and you can cite guys around baseball he strike out a ton. Kyle schorber struck out a ton in his career. But you know what makes Kyle shorber Great? In addition to, yeah, he does strike out more than a lot of players, but he also hits a ton of home runs and he walks a ton. So, you know, he’s, he’s the the epitome of a three true outcome kind of player in the modern day. But, you know, with callouser, you know, it’s not though, it’s not as though he has no value whatsoever. And like, I’m saying, Get rid of them, or any of that. But, man, got to figure that out, because, you know, they, they’re already at a point where they need to go get an outfielder, right? And I, I’ll continue to say that. I mean, if they’re, if their opening day outfield is Dylan beavers, Colton cowser and Tyler O’Neill. Then, thumbs double, thumbs down on the off season, right? You need an outfielder. It’s got to be someone doesn’t have

Nestor Aparicio  37:29

taken loriano Seriously. But you take that production.

Luke Jones  37:32

I mean, the you know, what

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Nestor Aparicio  37:35

does that mean? They need to sign somebody that’s going to hit 270 with 25 homes, and I think drive in 80 to 100 runs and walk in, and

Luke Jones  37:44

I’d like, and ideally, ideally, be someone that can play a little bit of center field for you too, because, I mean, the way cows are trending, don’t get me wrong, he’s in my opening day lineup. I unless it’s a left hander. So you’re

Nestor Aparicio  37:58

gonna give him 600 at bats next year. Let him strike out 194 times. Four times and hit 221, like 600

Luke Jones  38:04

8

at bats, because you don’t have to view it through that lens. I mean, it’s what we talked about a couple years ago when we were talking about cowser and and Stowers joining their incumbent outfielders where, where my idea was always like Anthony Santander and Cedric Mullins and Austin Hayes like these. These don’t have to be 155 start guys like they’re not that good, that great, that they must be in the lineup every day. And that’s where I kind of view this through the lens of, yeah, you need to go get at least one other outfielder. I mean, you

Nestor Aparicio  38:37

might need to, Well, dude, they went, got Laureano and didn’t think he would play that he went and he played. And that’s

Luke Jones  38:42

where you kind of look at it’s like, man, maybe they, maybe they should have just kept him, right? I mean, so, and I get it, it’s sweetened the pot from the deal they got from the Padres. But Is anyone in that deal going to help you this coming year? They think that relief pitcher. So, so we’ll see. But, but, you know, that’s kind of where it is. It’s funny because you asked me about Bradish and Rogers, and I know that was 15 minutes ago, but the point that makes me encouraged about them too is when you watch those two right now, and I don’t know, and I’m not really even hung up on, you know me, I’m not hung up on the number one, starter, number two, starter, number three, number four, number five. To me, you group it in, who are your top half guys that you would say I feel pretty confident about them starting a playoff game, and who are the guys that are filling out the back of your rotation? Right? The dean Kramers, right? The Kyle Gibson a few years ago, certainly not Kyle Gibson this year. But the thing that excites me, excites me about what we’re seeing from Bradish and Rogers is you are seeing two guys that look like any of these combinations, a one and a two, a one and a three, or a two and a three, no matter how you want to proceed this off season and and notice when I said that, I’m saying you still need to go out there and get a very legitimate top half, a number one, a number two or a number three. Three. I’d really prefer it to be a one or a two. I don’t love the saying Bradish and Rogers are one and two, but if Kyle Bradish is right, he’s a one. I mean, he just is, like, the stuff out of the way. I’m not gonna they’re gonna pitch against the Yankees here at some point here, I’m sure, because I want to play seven games against them, right? So, yeah, you know, seeing how they go compete in there in that way. I’m not, dude, there’s 10 days left in the season, and you don’t want to make too much to fall off, right? I mean, Brad gives up seven runs and three and two thirds against the Yankees. I don’t think he’s broken. As long as his arm doesn’t hurt the next right? As long as his velocity is not down four miles per hour and he’s not talking about his

Nestor Aparicio  40:39

elbow, nobody’s getting their feelings hurt. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s grapefruit ball with some juice the next

8

Luke Jones  40:46

10 days, of course, of course. And again, that, you know, that’s, that’s where I kind of go to my point about Kobe mayo, though, being disappointing, because it’s like, you know, from, from the time they traded O’Hearn, Kobe Mayo has played just about every day, and it hasn’t been very good. I mean, it just has it. Now here of late, like the last four games, as you and I are speaking now, he’s looked like he’s made a couple of adjustments and three home runs against the Yankees and drive in 12 runs. But even like, is that enough? You know what? I mean, that’s such a small sample, so

Nestor Aparicio  41:15

I haven’t seen anything from him that leads me to be anything the way the highlights looked in Norfolk a year and a half ago.

Luke Jones  41:21

That’s fair. I mean, I’m not going to sit here and argue with you about that like he had, he had the stretch earlier in the summer. We had, like, a three week stretch where I thought, hey, it’s starting to look better. He’s having better at bats, he’s drawing some walks, he’s hitting the ball with some authority. And then remember, they, they kind of went through that period where they stopped playing them, which I thought was just dumb. I don’t get that. But he, I also know at that point in time, they were still trying to work with him to make some adjustments behind the scenes. You know, He narrowed his stance a little bit, you know, was a little more upright, I believe, you know, but they’ve done different things with the toe tap. You know, they’ve done that with multiple guys, right? So, but, but he’s another guy like I mentioned. You know, whether you’re talking about ruchman or calz, he’s another guy where it’s like, Man, I’d love to see a new it’s not even just a new hitting coach, because most of these teams have more than one. I mean, the Oriole approach, right? Yeah, I’d like to see fresh eyes on him, in the same way that fresh eyes were a godsend for Kyle Stowers and look, that doesn’t mean that all these guys are going to figure it out all along. Yeah, and we’ve talked about this. I mean, go look at the history of first round picks. Go, look at the history of number one overall picks in this game. Tim Beckham, who spent two years with the Orioles, he was the first overall pick. He was absolutely a disappointment, right? I mean, it happens, and that was the rays, who were way smarter than a lot of teams out there, you know, in spite of their ownership and lack of financial means. So that doesn’t mean that everyone’s going to figure it out, but that’s where I go back to hire a manager, hire a coaching staff. Do not get caught up in Well, well, you know, they, they’ve been, they’ve played eight games over 500 since late May, you know. And no, no, no, it’s been admirable that I will say this, and this is where I’ll give the current team a nod, and I’ll give mancellino a nod, considering how much they traded at the deadline, the fact that they have basically played 500 since then, I do think is a testament to them. Because, to your point, you don’t even recognize the names in the bullpen or on a day by day, week by week basis, you know. I mean, a couple guys, you know, died ends is looked pretty good. I think Tage drought has looked pretty good. Like, those are the guys that going into the spring. I say, hey, you know, like they could be part of the bullpen, you better go, go out and get a couple legit dudes for the back end. But you know, they’ve done well enough. They’ve acquitted themselves well to the point where I could see those guys being in the pen next year. But, but all things, all that being said, I think we all thought when they gutted this roster on July 31 think we all thought it’s possible this team could end up losing 95 100 games. Yeah, dude, they did a last place team with those guys, right? And they didn’t, and they played. And believe me, this isn’t me throwing a parade for him, either. I understand, like, hey, part of this is also the pressures off, and you’re not independent race. And you know, it is basically like you said, it’s kind of a more competitive form of spring training. Yeah, I’m not gonna argue with any of that. Well, they’re playing the real New York Yankees this week. Sure. Right on. They they played the real Toronto Blue Jays over the weekend. And you saw you were reminded that, oh yeah, they have a heck of a lot of work to do to this bullpen. I mean, the bullpen is

Nestor Aparicio  44:39

8

I’ve got next to nuts and tryouts. Like I said. I mean, it’s literally like I said, and we knew that that’s why them winning any games the last two months has been like, yeah, yeah, but and they are because Brad and Rogers look like what we began the conversation, which is, do we have hope this winter or not, and what would give us? More hope that a last place team can become what, and I’ll wrap with this what my 75 colts were worst to first, because that’s what that story would be here if they come back out next year and Henderson hits 311 with 41 home runs and is unstoppable, and Richmond finds the fountain of his ability and hits 28 home runs and drives in 91 runs. And it’s 274 and besides 265 and 18 home runs, it looks like he’s on the path Jackson holiday, solid. 274, 19 home runs, 54 RBIs. Draw, some walks, place, some what it has to

Luke Jones  45:40

be, but that’s what holiday has been this year. I mean, you know, it’s

Nestor Aparicio  45:44

22 years old. I’m not putting 40 home runs on that. I’m not making him Joe Morgan,

Luke Jones  45:48

like, he needs to be better than he was this year, though, because then I start to look at it and say, well, he wasn’t a one, one. Then, you know, like, like, yes, heavy is the crown, right? As far as the expectations, but no, I hear what you’re saying. And look, I hope there’s also another bat that they acquire this off season via trade, signing whatever that fits into that doesn’t have to be the best player on the team, but someone that can solidify the outfield, or someone that can solidify the middle of the lineup. I mean, you see the lineups that they’re trotting out there. I mean, on any given night. I mean, you know, Tyler O’Neill, he’s back, God bless right until he’s not. But, you know, I mean, he shouldn’t be the cleanup hitter. And I suppose you could say based off of how many home runs he hit last year. But you know, they’ve had nights where Emmanuel Rivera is their cleanup hitter. They’ve had nights where, I mean, you just

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Nestor Aparicio  46:39

kind of looked at the manual. Rivera helps him walk him off. I’ve watched

Luke Jones  46:43

he did, but they’ve got a lot of work to do. There’s no doubt the pitching is the big headline for the and I just saw Ken Rosenthal echo this again on MLB Network, or whatever it was, you know, FS one. It was one of the talking head shows that he was a guest on. So everyone’s gonna talk about the pitching, and understandably so, I get that they have, especially the bullpen, there’s a ton of work, but there’s also substantial work to do to the rotation. But I’m sorry if they just sit there and say, lineup wise, we’re good. Oh, I don’t like that at all, like you’re a last place team. Just need to go get a legit bat. I mean, you got to get a legit bat and then do everything you can exhaust every resource you have in terms of hiring coaches and revamping player development, all of that to get this young core, more of these guys firing in the right direction. And if you do that, that’s a lot of it, lot of ifs there, lot of ifs and buts. But if you do that, there’s no reason this team can’t be back in contention. Because, hey, they’ve been eight, you know, they’ve been in the territory of eight, 910, games over 500 since late May you play like that kind of team, they’re in wild card contention right now. We’re talking about them being having a chance still at this point in time. So, and that’s that’s with this flawed roster. So it speaks to, yeah, there absolutely is a path, but boy, Mike Elias has to go out, you know, new president of baseball operations, Mike Elias needs to go out there and have a heck of an off season, certainly way better than the last couple

Nestor Aparicio  48:12

the Peter principles promoting to the point, yeah, you can Google that. He is Luke Jones. He is Baltimore. It always comes back. Man, it always comes I, I, I work hard to be clever, but sometimes it’s easy, you know? I don’t know. Sometimes it just comes to me. The Maryland crab cake Tour presented by the Maryland lottery I will ever even scratch off. I do have my last, my last chance to say Whammy, whammy. I don’t want to put the whammy on the on the Orioles, but they have felt like the last place team every day of the last six months around here. For me, despite the eight games over 500 or wherever they’ve been since May, we don’t talk about them a lot. We just did for a long period of time. We’re gonna get back to football. Ravens getting ready for the Detroit Lions. Luca put his purple cap back on. Easy to do. I am counting down my 27 favorite things to eat. One of them I just devoured here during this segment. It’s all brought to you by our friends at curio wellness. Gives me a chance to break it. I don’t know how often I’m going to wear the orange curio shirt here in the off season, the t shirt, but I’m hoping that every time there’s breaking news, we’ll send it out on the W, N, S, D, tech service. Brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy. I also want to thank my friends at GBMC, Luke. I don’t want to brag about my colonoscopy, but I do have a date. So, like, I have a date now, for everybody out there that has been concerned that has heard me talk to Dr, is scary and have him tell me like you’re 56 you haven’t had a colonoscopy. What’s wrong with you? You’ve had Tim Brown on the show five times you’ve had five Pro Football Hall of Famers yell at you about your number and about getting your ass in there. And now I’m finally doing it, so I’m gonna wind up texting, you know, all the dudes in my phone who’ve yelled at me about this. So thank you. GBMC, you. Be hearing the ads, seeing everything out of Baltimore positive. You’ll also be hearing some conversations speak about acid reflux and some other things that are kind of normal things. But, you know, ask a doctor, get answers. Don’t go to AI in the internet. Go to GPMC. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 task Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive. And at some point I’ll get my physical, I swear. Oh, I feel good. I.