It feels inconceivable but Allen McCallum and Luke Jones were in agreement that they’ve never done a WNST radio segment together in all of the years we’ve been talking Baltimore Orioles with both of them. And our airwaves have featured more baseball chatter with these two guys than any other humans on earth. Clearly, last place and lousy continues to bring us all together in search of the greater Birdland good.
Nestor Aparicio, Allen McCallum, and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ struggles, highlighting their 18-game losing streak and overall poor performance. They attributed the issues to regression of young players, poor pitching, and defensive lapses. Specific players like Gunnar Henderson and Koby Mayo were criticized for their inconsistent play. The conversation also touched on the impact of injuries, the need for a revamped strength and conditioning program, and the potential for trades involving players like Colton Cowser. They debated the future of manager Brandon Hyde and GM Mike Elias, questioning their job security and the team’s rebuilding strategy.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Baltimore Orioles, Mike Elias, pitching issues, hitting regression, Brandon Hyde, defense metrics, injuries, strength and conditioning, young players, trade prospects, ownership changes, rebuilding strategy, fan frustration, offensive performance, manager accountability.
SPEAKERS
8
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones, Allen McCallum
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 tasks in Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. Today. We are Reisterstown positive, or what Gary Thorman called registers town. We’re up here on registers town Road in Reisterstown. We’re at readers, Kravis. I’ve actually, I’ve got scratch. Also the Maryland lottery. I have my back to the future. Alan, you get one. I feel like this is great. Luke, your employees don’t be able to see all of our positive if I win a lot of money, I’ll give it to you readers. Crab houses here, I have the full menu. Hoping the crew here, Brendan, have been very kind to us. We’re kicking things off. It’s all star. Kind of time it’s it’s patriotic time. I’m doing heritage fair stuff in Catonsville. They’re putting the chairs out over there for the picnics. But summer used to mean baseball here. It used to be fun as we gather here today. Alan McCallum, my one time ballpark reporter, celebrating our 30th anniversary here on the northwest side of town. And, of course, Luke Jones here Baltimore. Luke our insider. And as we sit here today, I managed to not feed you guys, although the food will be delicious, I managed to keep you off of the baseball topic so you didn’t green room this thing like molars back for the most part, for the most part, but it talked a little, yeah, but not such that we’ve discussed how they’ve almost been no hit three out of the last five days.
Luke Jones 01:32
Yeah, first and I
Nestor Aparicio 01:33
almost missed it on Wednesday night. You would tell that story to start with, because I
8Allen McCallum 01:39
think there’s the first time we’ve broadcasted together.
Luke Jones 01:41
You know what? I think we probably did a couple phone segments years and years ago.
Nestor Aparicio 01:48
You guys are never done radio together. I
Luke Jones 01:51
8don’t know. I don’t think in a sit down format like this, it’s funny. And full disclosure, I don’t even need to be here. I’m gonna go, Yeah, it’s funny. And I told you about this not long ago. Nestor is about a month ago. Alan reached out to me. We’ve been Facebook friends. I mean, we know each other. We don’t see each other very often, right? I mean, this might be the first time I’ve laid eyes on you, and seven or eight years,
Nestor Aparicio 02:11
you don’t know each other from being at the ballpark. Alan stopped the ballpark thing before
Luke Jones 02:17
my first year was 2010
Nestor Aparicio 02:19
was your last ballpark? 2002
8Luke Jones 02:23
Okay, all right, not quite two ships passing in the night, but along those okay. But anyway, so he reached out to me. He’s just like, hey, like, what are you up to? Would you mind hopping on the phone at some point? Let’s, let’s just talk shop. And
Nestor Aparicio 02:35
I said, Sure, something I never do in my life, because I do this professional but
Luke Jones 02:40
it was much more of a what do you think about this? And I was, I think we, we talked for probably 45 minutes, if not an hour, yeah. And the end of the conversation, it’s like, Man, I wish we had solved all the world’s problems here, but I got nothing. And it was very I lost kind of deal, as I’ve said, as I’ve said to you over and over, over the air. Look, I can explain many phases, many facets, facets of this, but for it to be this bad, yeah, for this long now, where this is played, they’ve played like a 73 win team over the last calendar year, pretty much, you know, give or take a couple games for it to be this bad, I’m still scratching my head, I can identify obvious things when you’re getting yeah, here recently. I mean, but
Allen McCallum 03:27
8look to Grom. I mean, you sort of understand, but, but everybody else look. I mean, first of all, I have great respect for Luke’s Luke’s work, clearly a guy that loves, loves the sport knows more about it than most people on earth will ever, ever, ever know. I
Luke Jones 03:45
paid him to say that, by the way,
Allen McCallum 03:46
but you know it, I used to be in the in the clubhouse talk to people, and that obviously is not the case right now, and I was just hoping that he could shed light on something that I’m missing, because what you can see doesn’t add up. I mean, the sort of pitching, yeah, I get the pitching, it’s really the offense. It’s the regression of these young players, it’s the plan that the GM does or does not have. And for me, and I’ve said this to both of you, mean, if there’s anything that I hold Brandon Hyde accountable for. It’s that coming out of spring training, this team looks so unprepared, and that that’s an indictment of of the manager. But yeah, I was just hoping that that one, I just wanted to talk, but just hoping that we could, you know, put our heads together and figure out something. And I don’t know that much of came out of except that that, you know, we
Luke Jones 04:39
that I was at a loss in a lot of ways, too. And look Nestor, and I mean, it kind of became our Abbot and Costello bit over the first couple of months. Is it the pitching or the hitting? And the answer was yes, right? As Bucha Walter would say, yes. But all along, pitching was the question mark. It’s the question mark. The question mark throughout the off season, did they do enough? Obviously, Corbin Burns is gone. You bring in. Gano recent struggles aside, he’s been worked out really well. That’s been fine. You know, Charlie Morton was an absolute disaster for the first six weeks. He’s been better since then. It’s still a net negative, but it was always gonna be a question mark. It was always going to hang on. Grayson Rodriguez staying healthy. He didn’t he still hasn’t pitched. He hasn’t pitched in almost a year now. Albert Suarez was going to be there’s their six starter, so to speak. They’ve missed him a lot. So I mean, like all of those issues, I could fully understand. Okay, if you told me this team in May was two games under 500 as opposed to 18, I’d understand that. I’d excited.
8Nestor Aparicio 05:38
I’ll even go with Kyle Gibson coming in, I would thought he still would be
Luke Jones 05:42
pitching, and he, like, literally, right, right. So, so you
Nestor Aparicio 05:46
look more capable than chase the guy they threw out there and went through Brandon Young. Brandon Young. Brandon young, well, I’m thinking, or any of these guys, but
Luke Jones 05:55
8we always anyone who was looking at this, either through orange tinted glasses, or if you were if you were more pessimistic, everyone had questions about the pitching, so that part of it, I’m not if you told me what their staff, er a was and all of that back in March, I’d say, Yeah, okay, if it’s like this on the precipice of July, they’re probably going to be mediocre. Did I do what I have thought it’d be this bad? And this is where you go to the hitting the deep, the defense is awful. I mean, you look at the from a metric standpoint, it’s a bottom five kind of defense in the majors bottom it’s been, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 06:29
the metric people look at much like not one. They’re going to talk about a mass and in the
Luke Jones 06:34
difficult to quantify. I mean, obviously the old school perspective is looking at errors and fielding percentage, right? And that’s, I think we’ve always that’s a limited scope eyeball test. Some some defenders look better than others, but if you look at defensive run saved, you look at outs above average, all these different things, it doesn’t paint a very flattering it’s an average to below average to poor kind of defense. So
Nestor Aparicio 06:55
I want to honor Tom cap, who was my first ballpark reporter, who gave the baton to Allen, along with Howard share, who’s been on the show, and cap and I played a lot of strata Matic back in the 80s. So there was four fielding delineations, 123, or four. A four would be like Sherman a bando. You know what I mean, like? So, you know, you know what I mean the four is, just don’t give that person a glove, right? I’m looking around, and I’m in my mind, this is how I rate players. Is he a one or two or three or four? I thought gunner Henderson was a two on the way to being one. He’s a three, right? Now, maybe a three on the way to being a four? Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if he’s Mayo as a third baseman, would be a four, right? I mean, oh, that’s why Urias is a one, maybe a two, right? I mean, Mullins, I give him a one in center field. I give cows or two at this
8Allen McCallum 07:44
point. Isn’t exactly what he was,
Luke Jones 07:46
yeah? Well, yeah, I think he’s good. I don’t think he’s a Gold Glove caliber center fielder. Or at least this year I
Nestor Aparicio 07:53
see this Jackson holiday might be an outstanding fielder before. He
Luke Jones 07:58
8didn’t want your he’s not now, but he has, he has grown there a lot. And, you know, hey, he’s played a position to ever play. He hasn’t played there a whole lot. And right part of that is the organization. Like, two years ago, he was playing a lot of shortstop, and it’s like, what are you doing?
Allen McCallum 08:11
But beginning this year, they they put him at shortstop. Yeah, gunner was hurt. It’s just supposed to saying, play second base, figure it out.
Luke Jones 08:17
Which the nice thing was, he actually looked okay enough there where I thought, okay, to me, that means Jorge Mateo should be more expendable now
Nestor Aparicio 08:24
anyway, is holiday a second baseman in any organization. In your mind, what do you ask about that? Would he be a second baseman, a shortstop or third base? I think it depends on your shortstop. I mean, if you have, would he be a good, good enough shortstop to supersede anyway,
8Allen McCallum 08:40
Joey Ortiz is a great shortstop, and they, they’re still trying to figure out Milwaukee one, because his hitting, his hitting has just been terrible since last July. But they’ve got defensive guys who can play all the positions. So they’re, they’re trying to
Nestor Aparicio 08:51
figure that out. I mean, I’m trying to think, like, what would they ideally be? Ideally? Gunner probably ideally would be a third baseman, right?
Luke Jones 08:57
I mean, that’s probably, I mean, that might be where he ends up
Allen McCallum 09:00
8gunner can play short stuff. The problem is that he’s so aggressive, he’s erratic, he’s so I’m gonna make the play. Sometimes you have to understand what Cal was great at doing, was understanding where he needed to be in the play, yeah. And sometimes you don’t have to be look, look how cool I am. Make it boring, yeah. Sometimes you just want to be as boring and steady as possible. JJ Hardy was the definition of that, right? Every play, you knew that he was going to be where he needed to be. He was going to play it, how he needed to play it. And while he didn’t have a great arm when he needed to dial it up, he could, and he saved it for those moments much, very much like Cal and gunner wants to look. Gunner looks to be make the greatest play in every play, and he makes mistakes in the one thing
Luke Jones 09:45
that’s been interesting about gunner, and I know, I mean, they’ve had JJ Hardy, they’ve had some guys down as guest coaches in spring training. One thing I’ve noticed over the last month and a half, and I’m not saying that it’s made his defense markedly better, but I think it, it’s looked a. Little steadier. He doesn’t seem to be on the run as much. It seems like he’s fielding more ground balls in a more conventional way, because he’s talked about this, he was always someone who felt more comfortable swiping at, you know, coming in and swiping at the ball, fielding it on the run, it leads to some great plays, but it also will lead to some erratic throws. And that’s something that we saw big time last year, the second half of last year, when things kind of started going up, fall apart, across the board for
Nestor Aparicio 10:25
this team. Well, from the time he’s a little boy
Allen McCallum 10:27
tacked the ball, which Cassidy and Sundance Kid? Can I move? I’m better when I move, yeah, and that’s the way gunner, Gunner looked when he played.
8Luke Jones 10:36
So I think you’ve seen a little less of that. I think you’ve seen him be a little steadier at times, but he still goes through he still feels like someone who’s a streaky fielder, which you don’t say that about a lot of guys, but he feels that way. It feels like his errors will come in bunches, and then he’ll have a stretch where two and a half weeks,
Allen McCallum 10:54
he looks above average. There was a play early last year in Pittsburgh at the end of the game. It was a play that he should have never thrown the ball, but he was trying hard to make the play to win, to keep them from losing the game, and he cost them the game in the process. Yeah, and that’s sometimes you have to know the game is going to be tied, yep. I need to hold, I need to hold this ball. I can’t be the hero in this moment. And sometimes that’s what makes you the hero. And
Luke Jones 11:21
gunner needs to figure that, yeah. So I think, you know, to bring it back to the defense. Collectively, it hasn’t been a good defensive club. I think they have good athletes at plenty of positions, but I think across the board, it hasn’t been good. I mean, you mentioned Brandon Hyde, and I mean, that was so much of the criticism of Brandon Hyde, I think was unfair. And I think a lot of the issues that people took with batting order, things of that nature, are much more organizational decisions. Yeah, I said it to you, okay, I get it. The manager has the quote final say on the lineup. But when you’re collaborating with your bosses, and if, if they’re pushing a certain idea, and then you keep pushing back on it. What’s that going to mean, usually, for the long run? So yes, he had the final say in terms of, like, he literally had the pen and was filling it out. But those were collaborative things, and some of the criticisms and things that you didn’t like about Brandon Hyde’s lineups have continued with Tony Mansell. No now, so, so there’s that. But you know one thing I think, I do want to point out that has been a big factor. It’s not an excuse. It can be used as an excuse, but it is part of the reality westburg the injuries that they’ve had, sure they’ve had a ton of injuries. There’s no question about that. Now that said that doesn’t just wipe the slate clean and absolves them of everything with some of the soft tissue injuries that they’ve had, especially with their position players. I’m not talking about cows are breaking his thumb sliding into first base in Toronto, but the hamstrings, obliques, things of that nature. I do question, where are you with your strength and conditioning program? Because a couple years ago, you know, one of the big things that allowed them to be as successful as they were was until Batista got hurt in late August, they were quite healthy that year, and their pitch young team should, yeah, should be exactly. You’re not talking about a bunch of 35 year olds here. So I’m not saying that there is definitive, definitively something wrong there, but it’s something I’m questioning. You know, Did something change here? You’ve obviously, you know, Brian evil’s gone. Richie ban sells left a few years ago. I mean, you have different trainers, different strength coaches, things of that nature. Is there something that’s been missed or something that was changed, or something that is omitted, that needs to be there that would help explain some of that? But, yeah, the injuries have been a big part of this. But I can’t sit here and just look at that solely and just say, Oh, well, that explains why they’re 12 games under 500 and we’re 18 games under 506 weeks ago. It’s part of it. The pitching is part of you know, it’s never just one thing. When you’re talking about something you’re this bad, that has been an organizational failure, you know, from the beginning of 2023 through the end of last June. You know, we, we always talk of Nestor. You and I talk about that high water mark we’re at cost us in watching the Orioles take two or three from the Yankees that intense series at the Bronx. There were bean balls. There were, you know, I can’t remember if the benches emptied in that series, but there was, you could see it was coming. And then, obviously they played a couple weeks later, and the benches did empty when Heston kerstad got hit. But from that point on, and then they played, they played the Phillies. After that, they played the Phillies right before that, before they had that six game stretch where they took four of six out of the best best team in the NL and the best team in the Al. They had every argument at that point that they could be the best team in baseball. Question, they for a year and a half they had played like a 103 win team. When you count 101 wins and 23 and the pace they were on at that point since then, they have played like a 73 win team, and that’s looking at it from being more 500 ish the second half of last year, a couple games under 500 but around that and this year being much more of a team that is 90 plus losses.
Allen McCallum 14:53
8And that’s what’s so frustrating to me. I need someone to explain to me what happened in that moment, because I. For all the criticism that Elias takes and Brandon Hyde and even, let’s say, Ali rutchman. I mean, they were that team. It wasn’t just 23 they weren’t, they weren’t a fluke. 24 they tore through the league, and then it just, it’s like, it’s like a switch got flipped. And I really don’t understand
Nestor Aparicio 15:19
that pitching changed. Pitching change when Bradish and those guys went down and there was no Batista and Kimber was in a toilet. Pitching change at that point, that bullpen change, Soto Dominguez, the additions last year, they tried with Rogers. I mean, he tried to patch the thing together, like, like he tried to add with Jack Flaherty the year before, but you’re going through this myriad Is it the pitching? Is it the hitting? Is it the owner? Is it the deep who? Who’s responsible
Allen McCallum 15:47
for? Let me say two things about the injuries. First one, Tyler O’Neill, I hear two things about Tylenol all the time. One, he’s the most jacked guy in the clubhouse. And two, he’s on the aisle again today, maybe, maybe backing off on the weightlifting might make you a little more flexible in your neck, yeah, and upper body regions. I’m just throwing it out. Sure. Second thing is that for for the injuries that have occurred, and I said this to you on the air, it allowed for a couple things to happen. One, Heston kerstet was never going to get a chance to play in this outfield. Tyler O’Neill were healthy so or and Colton cowser goes down. Both of them go down. Hester said, gets a chance to play. And in my thought, it was, well, this is this chant, this kid’s opportunity to emerge. And he completely failed. Yeah, and I know he got hit, and there were some other things, but that he failed so spectacularly is a major concern. They’ve
Nestor Aparicio 16:43
had a lot of problems with this, right? Kobe Mayo failed spectacularly. Well, they failed spectacular. Did failers? Even, you know they there’s some chances they gave the guys, whatever the chances, whatever that opportunity is, they there are a lot of guys that haven’t seized that COVID. Mayo
8Allen McCallum 16:59
hasn’t had a chance to play when he’s played in short stints. He has not succeeded right now. This is his operation. Be his runway. This should be it right now, and they are not playing him enough. I don’t understand. Find out what’s going on, and that makes no sense to me. I understand that the all star break is sort of the litmus test for where are we? Do we think we have a chance to get back? Get back in it. You keep hearing when they were going on that run for a little while, they’re six and a half out of the wild yard. Okay, great. You got eight other teams ahead of them. I mean, if you want to believe that this team, if you is it theoretically possible this team get into the playoffs? Sure, because two things are true. There has never in the history of baseball, has it been easier to get into the playoffs, of course. Second thing that’s true, it has never been harder in the history of baseball to win the World Series, because all it takes is one hot team to come in and shut you down for three days and you’re done. So sure you could get in the playoffs. This team’s not going to win the World Series. So if you’re, if you’re in a situation where you’re Michael is and you’re trying to decide, how do I keep my job? Do you Is he thinking, well, if ownership is looking at me, maybe they think I need to get to the playoffs to keep my job. But if you’re the fan base that’s looking at this team, and, for that matter, other baseball teams that are saying, maybe I’ll give this guy a job, you play the guy that you’re that you think has a chance to be something every day to find out whether he’s going to be something well. And I
Luke Jones 18:22
would even say, even if you want to accomplish making the playoffs and pie in the sky, you need some best possible outcomes under that scenario. And okay, May, okay, flop. He could flop. He could be a quad A guy. He could be a guy that’s dealt whatever. But he definitely has more upside than playing Ramona RIAs and look, I like Ramona Rios. This isn’t me being anti him. And I’m not saying he and Dylan Carlson have to rot on the bench either. I’m not saying Kobe Mayo has to play seven days, Thursday, Sundays. He should play a minimum of five days a week at this point, at least, and part of that is also getting reps at first base and I and I think he’s already, to me, starting to look a little bit better there. He’s got a long way to go. Ryan O’Hearn can’t play first. Yeah, he’s better, but he is not a good defensive for sure, and not but Kobe mayo, we’ve seen him run the basis the guy’s an athlete for how big he is, there’s no reason to think he can’t become, at least at worst, an average defensive first baseman. But he’s got to play there. But you just look at all of this collectively, and what you said Nestor about the pitching is absolutely true. I still come back to the hitting, and maybe we can get into that into our next segment, a little more specifically, because that is what this rebuild. It was the foundation, absolutely college hitters. I know Jackson holiday was a high school kid, but primarily college hitters that were supposed to be these guys that were high floor and also high ceiling. I mean, that was what Adley ruts was compared to Bobby Witt, who was high ceiling. But hey, he’s a high school shortstop. You don’t know if he’s going to develop so that’s what they were built on. That’s what Mike Elias is. Our off season was all about. Was okay, our pitching is going to be inning eaters, guys that throw strikes, guys that don’t walk, waiting for radish, waiting for those come back and and we’re going to have a top five offense. I’ll leave you with this stat because I know you want to cut. No, I don’t want to cut. Okay, yeah. But over the last from the beginning of 2023 until the end of June last year, they were basically a top five offense in the majors. Now we can quibble over this, this stat or that stat, but generally speaking, that’s the kind of profile they had from the beginning of July through the end of last year, they were middle of the pack and in some categories a little bit worse. And this year, they’ve been bottom 10 to bottom five as an offense. And again, there are certain categories you can look at and say, Okay,
Nestor Aparicio 20:48
well, the bottom one the last six days. Well, consider how bad this but I’m not. I’m
Luke Jones 20:52
8trying not to focus too, too much on where
Nestor Aparicio 20:55
they are. Is there? It’s but as bad as it’s been offensive,
Luke Jones 20:59
and this goes back to what Alan was just saying. You’re talking about something that was working. It was working, emphatically working as a top five offense for nine months of baseball when you talk 23 and the first half of last year, and since then, it’s been pretty clearly a bottom 10 and at times worse than that offense for almost a calendar year now. And I get it like they missed Jordan westburg The last two months last year. And there been some elements like that. But Anthony Santander,
Luke Jones 21:31
sure. And you can they miss Adley Richmond former but that’s, but that’s you look at the number of guys that have regressed. Adley rutschman being the headliner gunner Henderson has looked much more like just merely an above average player, rather than the MVP that he was
8Nestor Aparicio 21:48
going with productivity, position by position, what they got out of right field, what they got out of even second base two years ago with Adam Frazier, whoever they, you know, whatever they were getting out of those positions to say, is it up or is it down, position by position, that might be the only position that’s up, right? I’m just saying from where they were two summers ago now, where they were last May, to what kind of productivity they’re getting, we already went through how bad the defense is. This is where I wanted to transition into something that piggybacked off of what Allen said in regard to Elias, because I haven’t said this shit. This is why I bring you guys around. You’re smarter. Than me. Luke, you and I talk about this every year we go to the combine the NFL, and like a guy like the Costa knows he’s keeping his job no matter what, because he’s got sugar daddy. He’s there. He’s got he’s the guy for life. Elias was hired by someone else. The thing is an issue. There’s no There’s no question. It’s a disaster right now, right? The guy Money Bags doesn’t know anything about baseball. He’s probably got everybody in his ear, whoever his baseball nerds, the way Bucha, he always had his golf buddies in his ears. You know, literally about Billick sucks, you know, like, I remember all this, how new ownership work. Peter had people in his ear, his brother in law, his kids, his kids were in his ear 30 years ago. So if you’re Mike Elias to your point, am I trying to build next opening day’s roster from when I’m not the general manager? Because if I’m trying to build next year’s opening day roster, and I really just sail the year away in a way that Peter Angeles never wanted to do, he got an obligation to our ticket. So Rubenstein won’t think that way. Katie Griggs won’t think that way. So if they have a sell off, whatever the sell off is, and I’ve mentioned to him, would cowser be the kind of guy the Tigers would want in the kind of deal for a school kind of pitcher, not that that deal is going to happen. But thinking about our better prospects are blossoming, not holiday and Henderson, I guess they’re untouchable. We all I love westburg, but you’re gonna have to give to get if you’re gonna get a number two, number three pitcher from somebody else, you have to give a starting player or some farm piece that they’re running lower on, not named bisayo, right? So if you’re Elias, and you think you’re getting canned at the end of the year, or you don’t think you’re getting canned at the end of the year. Or, let’s say the team goes nine and 28 from August 10 on, because you’ve dealt everybody away, somebody that wants to shut their body down and not play for this pig anymore because they got a knee injury or whatever. They’ve got Kittredge as an example, right? He’s made. He’s got money. He might, you know, I mean, something goes a little wrong in August. You won’t see. So what I’m saying is, how competitive pitching wise will they be in August and September? I’ll hear that they’re going to give Mayo at bats, no matter what, right, health wise, and I know, would hope I know next year on opening day, no matter who owns the team, no matter who the general manager is, Henderson ruchman, holiday cows are westburg O’Neill, Mayo are going to be in the opening day lineup, or at least on the roster, and play. Now on the 40 man, you hope there, that’s your lineup. You hope Kobe Mayo is in the lineup, because my failure part to your point when you gave me this nugget a couple of minutes ago, was what is the philosophy here, in a place where we could talk about the business, which we did over at the other table before we started this. And Katie Griggs and Mark fine, you know, these people that they brought in have changed nothing they My sources tell me Jim Palmer’s being mistreated. I like I would just say, Where is Elias on wanting to keep the job, liking the new guy, maybe even wanting to exit and say, I’ll regroup. And, you know, get the Braves job, assistant job three years from now or whatever, because there is a point where he’s going to be making all these key decisions the way do cat made all of the sell off pieces and then was run out anyway. Because I tell you right now, the optics to this, the optics to this to money bags and any billionaire in his hedge fund is I inherited a Rolls Royce, and now the Rolls Royce is rolling down the streets of Baghdad, and I’m in last place. It’s wartime. The fans are pissed. The manager’s fired. The general manager has been sort of taken out in the public square, and flawed, flawed a little bit, or flogged a little bit. In this case, maybe I should start from scratch. So we got a guy making picks next week, making trades eight weeks from now that I don’t know that there’s anything Mike Elias can do to be safe and keep his job, including a vote of confidence, including a two year extension on his deal that if the team turns out completely in August and September, which might happen, which to your point, probably should happen, right? Like, if you’re gonna rebuild for next year, get rid of have a fire, get rid of everything that you need
Allen McCallum 26:55
to find out what you have. It’s time to find out what they have. But this
Nestor Aparicio 26:58
crossroads period here is really sketchy because of the new ownership, the neophyte nature of it, this incredible collapse, the fan base that’s gone away, pissed off people like my buddy mark that bought a Birdland membership this year because it didn’t say Angelos on it, and he ain’t gonna buy it again. And I don’t know how many people bought that thing because Rubenstein owns it, Angelo’s does it, or because it’s new blood, or because they won. But I think people, they’re gonna have a hard time selling whatever happens at the end of this, if they aren’t hat backwards trying to get to 87 you know, if they’re not looking like they’re trying to do that, there’s some part of money bags that says, Hold on. We’re bleeding enough here. We got to at least we cannot deal F limit, yeah, I don’t know. I’m saying it’s complicated. I
Allen McCallum 27:43
8think Elias wants the job because his stock is down, yeah, and I think he only 30. It would behave him to behoove him to rebuild that stock, and no place better than what you know,
Nestor Aparicio 27:54
I don’t think he likes the job. I mean, you’re a coward if you’re gonna fire your manager on Saturday, Heidel, Tuesday night, you’re not qualified. I would have fired him on like, in my mind, he’s fired. He’s fired for lack of leadership. That’s where I put it.
Allen McCallum 28:08
But my biggest deal with Elias is that, as we were talking about, he’s a guy who I think likes the project, but he doesn’t know how to achieve getting there. I am all on board for drafting offense, because I think pitching is a is a roll the dice, and you fail more than you succeed, with the exception of like Tampa and Seattle. Maybe so you like his ethos in that way. Yes. But the problem is, if you draft all offense, you have to be willing to trade some of your toys to get what you need, which is pitching, because pitching is more important than anything else in the game.
Nestor Aparicio 28:43
That’s why people went crazy when I mentioned trading cows, or like a good player.
8Allen McCallum 28:47
So you, you I heard that our conversation with you two guys talking about cows or I don’t think he’s a great player, and I don’t think Elias is going to trade cows are but I look at Sandy Alcantara, who’s having a horrible season, coming back from Tommy John surgery, and he’s the if I’m the Orioles, I’m not. I’m not making deal. I’m not making that deal. I make that deal for Alcantara, but not for this year, for 26 because as risk averse as his team is, they have to start making some gambles. And if you come with the idea that I believe that Sandy alcantara will rebound from this and get back to maybe not what he was, yeah, but, but a good to a good number two starter that works for
Nestor Aparicio 29:23
Luke was in the offseason. And you know, I was wrong on that, Corbin burns, if they brought no, I think we beat it’s not your money. Corbin Burns was at the top of the rotation. Wrote me day, you’d be a happier Oriole fan. The reality would be, right?
Luke Jones 29:38
And reality Lake snow. He’s made two starts all year, right? I mean, it’s tough. Cows
Allen McCallum 29:42
8are is a guy that I don’t think Elias will trade, because when you when he looks good, he looks great, yeah. And when he’s going, well, this team wins. Well, what’s the state
Luke Jones 29:51
of their outfield long term? So because they’re not going to extend, Mullins sent on. Santander is already gone. Austin Hayes is gone, yes. So, I mean, if you like some of the guys, they have. Trip away. I mean, you know that. But
Allen McCallum 30:01
here’s the reality, you can rebuild an outfield faster than than any other part of the offense. And I mean, right now, Ramon Laureano and and Dylan Carlson are sort of, when they’re playing well, are carrying that part of the part of the offense for them, cows, there’s a guy that if, hey, if he turns out to be a consistent all star, God, bless him. I think that he’s I think that his his bat to ball skills are woefully less than than what was advertised. And I think that that’s ultimately going to kind of hold him back as he progresses. And I think that
Nestor Aparicio 30:43
if you so nice, you just nice ways. He strikes out too much. He he’s he misses the ball too much,
8Allen McCallum 30:48
right? Yeah, I think right now alcantara value is lower than it would have been. And I think you can make that deal if you’re the Orioles without beside. You know the thing about Garrett crochet, which, who should be an Oriole, right? Now, sure that the Red Sox made that deal without putting their best prospects in the deal. Why? There’s, you can’t
Luke Jones 31:05
tell me they traded a catcher. They’re catching prospect. They traded so he was one of their top three, but I think he was regarded as the third, okay, right?
Nestor Aparicio 31:12
They probably called him and said, you want to give us precise? And he said, No, and that’s the end, right? I mean, that’s the end. That’s the end. If
Allen McCallum 31:19
8you put cows are in that deal, I think you can probably get it that what that whatever, it didn’t happen
Luke Jones 31:24
again. I don’t, I said this to you at the time. I don’t want to fixate on cold and cows are I just,
Nestor Aparicio 31:29
I just want to fixate on what their I guess. Here’s my real
Luke Jones 31:33
my concern, and this goes back to what you were just talking about, as far as how this team finishes. If this team finishes that way, that tells me their core is not moving in the right direction, right because all of these other pieces, and I’m including Eflin, I’m including Sagano because let’s call these guys what they are. They’re middle to back half of the rotation guys on truly legitimate playoff teams. They’re not aces, they’re not number two starters. They’re at best number three, and what would you project in return? You do my point, not much, not much. And that’s but, but that’s but. My point with this is, if they completely fizzle out, that tells me that Adley rutschman, whenever he comes back, is back to hitting sub 650 right? That gunner, Henderson’s, you know, been the 750 ops guy that he’s been over the last calendar year, as opposed to the 900 ops guy that looked like he was going to hit 40 home runs and drive in 100 runs. You know that that Kobe Mayo is scuffling, that cows are is still striking out too much and not walking enough. So, so I guess my point as from what I’ve said from the moment that Brandon Hyde was let go, my main objective the rest of the year, it’s not really about them getting back in the wild card race. This would be a byproduct of getting back in the wild card race, and it’s getting your young core back on track, whatever needs to be done, whether that’s hiring, firing the hitting coaches, hiring new hitting like anything, let’s do hitting in the next segment. Sure that next segment, and we could do that, but I still think if, if they can do that, even if they trade off some pieces, you will see them play well enough down the stretch. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that they win 87 games and they miraculously or the third wild card, but it at least feels like it’s moving in the right direction, because you can look at these five guys that are playing markedly better than they were the first half of the season, or going back to the second half of last year, and
8Allen McCallum 33:31
they need to get Bradish and wells bad, sure, and then get them on track
Luke Jones 33:35
to be Yeah, right, as many of these guys with the arrow pointing up as possible. If you do that, I don’t really care what the record is going to look like at that point, because, yeah, they are going to trade one of Sagano or APL,
Nestor Aparicio 33:47
if not, well that would be the way that Elias keeps his job. Is that this thing isn’t a complete and that’s what the six win disaster, and
Luke Jones 33:54
8that’s what it has to be when you look at this team right now, their statistics like you look in terms of some of the, you know, adjusted rate stats, o, p, s, plus things like that. O’hern’s been great and awesome for him. I hope he makes the all star team. I’m happy for the guy, Ramon Laureano, for $4 million that’s been a great signing, especially with O’Neill being the other disaster that that signing has been one year into it. But when these are guys that are kind of being tent pole guys for your offense, and it’s not as much your young core guys, other than gunners overall, his numbers have been good. Holiday has made a massive improvement. But it’s not like he’s at an MVP level. He’s playing well, right? I mean, he’s encouraging for 21 but like when, when to vet, kind of cast off guys or some of your biggest success stories with your offense. Your offense has issues. I mean, there’s no
Nestor Aparicio 34:46
doubt they’re last place for a reason. Luke Jones is here. Allen is here. I’m going to give them the floor again. It’s all brought to my friends at the Maryland lottery. Back to the Future. I’m squaring up my body so I don’t hurt my neck. Mickey Coachella hurt my neck on his podcast this week, we’re at a reader’s craft. House, and man, they got everything on this menu. But folks over here, cracking crabs here for lunch, having beers. They have hoop tea here. So you know, lot of Eastern Shore craft beers going on. We’re in Reisterstown. We’re gonna talk to Izzy Patoka a little later on, my pal happy Eddie Sefo is gonna stop by. My dude from Miche pest control is gonna be stopped by talking about the termites I have that I need to exterminate. We’re also gonna learn about the Reyes town festival they have also on the Friday nights all summer long, and learn a little about the community out here. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery, in conjunction with Liberty pure solutions, Doug says hello. He fixed my plumbing two weeks ago, as well as our friends at curio wellness. Back for more readers, crab house, we’re doing the Maryland crab cake tour. We have the baseball Encyclopedia of Alan McCallum. Luke Jones is here. I’m Nestor. Stay with us. You.
