Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the many young players of interest in the Ravensโ first of three preseason games in August hosting the Philadelphia Eagles.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ravens, year, ronnie stanley, good, team, days, play, offensive line, season, tackle, injuries, paid, orioles, camp, talking, player, drafted, football, week, luke
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, House of Baltimore and Baltimore positive. Weโre good spirits this week, despite how the Orioles outcome began beginning of the week, because football is almost here, and theyโll give us reason to drink and eat and complain every Monday, Luke Jones is here. He is not drinking or eating or complaining. Heโs out knowing smells they allow him, so he has nothing to complain about. He gets to go out there in the heat and Chronicle all these things. And of course, on Friday, the cheese steak eaters will be down here for some fake football. Weโre going to be back downtown on Friday the 23rd for the cheatstros will be at fadelies doing the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by the Maryland lottery about the gold rush. Seven stumblers to give away. Have a handful of these. Weโre gonna have the Raven scratch offs by the late part of the month, and then into September, weโre doing tons of crab cake tours. Weโre doing 26 oysters in 26 days. Donโt know if youโve heard or not, but this is, this is false advertising. Weโre not really 25 years old. Weโre 26 years old now at wnsd. So weโll be celebrating with 26 oysters in 26 days, in 26 ways. All of it brought to you by the Maryland lottery, liberty, pure solutions, in conjunction with our friends at Jiffy Lube MultiCare, Luke has been going back and forth to owing smells. He will have the privilege and honor of seeing maybe a first place baseball team next week at the Orio park at Camden Yards, but between now and then, hey, I didnโt make you go watch fake soccer on Tuesday night, so you didnโt have to do that with Pulisic and those guys down there at the stadium, but the black wing is open now. Please get me a cocktail. Save me a seat at the black wing. You were not a part of the renovation, so Iโm not going to bother you with all that. Iโm not like Coleman and those guys eating free food yet. Stuff to do you work for a living. So does the Ravens right now, and these what used to be called two a days, and used to be hazing, all the crap that went on Tony Syracuse and hard knocks. Give me a little update. What are you seeing out there? What are we going to see on Friday night? Certainly, you know, you know injuries are going to happen. Itโs August. Yeah.
Luke Jones 01:53
I mean, as for Friday night, weโre going to see young guys. Weโre going to see those guys on the offensive line that are vying for a starting job. We are not going to see very many starters. I think thatโs evident, if youโve paid attention the last couple of years, really, from the moment that J K Dobbins tore up his knee at down in Landover. And you know, itโs kind of thatโs kind of been all she wrote for the established starter since then, which Iโm fine with. I think you have to be understanding the big picture and understanding what can happen. And I think for a Ravens team that had a relatively healthy first couple weeks of camp, the injuries have started to pile up a little bit here, not the season ending variety, other than Malik ham the second year edge Russia tours ACL last week, which was unfortunate for a local Baltimore kid, but Arthur millet, dealing with a knee issue that John Harbaugh was kind of vague about, said that itโs not anything season ending. But when you say that, I mean, yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:53
not season ending and, I mean, pick your words. If I were there and I were Chad Steele, letโs say, donโt say that. I mean, thatโs kind of a little alarming thing to read. I thought,
Luke Jones 03:03
well, and thatโs why that, to me, indicates that heโs probably gonna be out a little while. Because, I mean, not season ending, I mean, the Super Bowl six months away, still, right? I mean, what do you think about it? So, but I think part of that was he flat out, said theyโre dealing with something that theyโre looking at it right now. Theyโve got to figure out exactly what it is. So itโs odd because I was standing right near Arthur millet at practice the previous day, right toward the end, and he seemed fine. So I donโt know if it was more something thatโs been bothering him and has progressively gotten worse, but they have depth in the secondary. We know that, but Arthur millet was a understated part of what they did on the back end of the defense last year with what he could do at the nickel spot and his ability to blitz and, you know, not being the exclusive nickel, but certainly being a guy that matches up against slot receivers and and filling a very specific role in the back end of that defense and sub packages. So heโs going to miss some time. You know, weโve already talked, you know, Tyler Linder bombs a little bit banged up right now. I think theyโre just being very, very careful with him. I donโt think, you know, I havenโt gotten any indication that thereโs real concern there. But still might be a little while heโs an NFL center, heโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:13
going to get banged up plenty this season. Donโt need to beat him up in August, right? Well,
Luke Jones 04:17
and thatโs the thing. And heโs, as weโve said, heโs the one part of your offensive line you feel really good about everything else is maybe, or a veteran holding on, like Ronnie Stanley, or guys that we donโt know if theyโre going to start or not, letโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:32
just call it four question marks and a Linder bomb. Thatโs what it is, right? Sure,
Luke Jones 04:36
literally, sure. Yeah, you have a Pro Bowl center and four question marks. Now Stanleyโs a less, less of a question mark than some of the other positions, but heโs still a question mark because
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:45
itโs a question mark for me as to how good he can be at this his career. What is he a seven? Is he an eight? He ainโt a 10 anymore. I mean, and heโs not going to the Hall of John Ogden or Tony Boselli. Um, so what will he be over? For 1920, 21 games this year. I donโt know. Man, I donโt know. I mean, thatโs a freaking question mark. Thatโs a question mark. I have lots of questions about that position, his ability to play it, his ability to maintain it, and what they do if heโs a six, yeah, well, if heโs
Luke Jones 05:18
a six, heโs probably still playing there, because Iโm not, is Patrick McCarry is seven.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:22
Thatโs a real problem. Thatโs a real problem.
Luke Jones 05:24
I mean, it is, but at the same time, I guess my point is he is at least somewhat of a known commodity, whereas, right now, you donโt know anything about these other guys that are going to be starting right? I mean, Andrew Voorhees looks like heโs gonna be the left guard has had a nice camp,
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:42
and another guy an injury issue that shows career down to begin with, right Sure, sure,
Luke Jones 05:46
but veteran players have been very complimentary of him, at times unsolicited, going out of their way to compliment him. So I think there, thereโs, albeit cautious, but optimism as far as what he can do at left guard, but right guard, for me right now is still wide open. Right tackle. I mean, sure you have McCarry and Rose and garden there, but Okay, howโs that going to look whoever? So Iโm going
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:07
to ask you now, weโre a month out, weโre a month out on Kansas City. Who starts right now? You donโt have to be right about it. You just have to guess. Stanley
Luke Jones 06:15
Voorhees, Linder bomb, right guard, I still donโt know. I mean, FAU le Layโs getting all the reps there. Iโm just, I donโt, I have a tough time that I donโt have a tough time buying that a 380 pound tackle suddenly going to be a guard who has to pull and move, move his feet and all of that. But I mean him or Ben Cleveland at right guard, I guess, you know, Iโll throw another name out there. Thatโs a dark horse right now, just because I think heโs actually quietly turned some heads. The guy whoโs on the practice squad last year, you know, number 62 watch him on Friday night, because he will definitely play a lot. Letโs see how Tayshaun Manning does. Iโm not saying heโs going to start, but if you tell me, if you have the purple crystal ball, and you would tell me, he might factor in at a garden
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:02
his name, so Iโm taking notes. Now. This is the first time Iโve done this week eight, you know, like, this
Luke Jones 07:08
is the first time I mentioned his name, because thatโs why I said heโs a dark horse. I mean, itโs not someone thatโs really been on my radar. But if you kind of look at practice, if you look at the depth chart, heโs kind of, you know, heโs been, heโs been angling for more steps with snaps with that second team and well, you do the math, if youโre not sure about your first team right guard, then the natural inclination is what to look at the second team right guard, and heโs been getting snaps there. So weโll see. Again. Iโm not if Iโm predicting right now, I guess Iโll go with FAU Lele because heโs gotten the the lionโs share of the snaps, but I need to see it in a game setting before I feel better about that. And then right tackle,
07:48
a week ago, I
Luke Jones 07:49
would have said McCary, the fact that Rosengarten now is starting to get first team reps, it feels like theyโre they want him to be the week one right tackle. Heโs got to go out and do it, though, and if heโs not quite ready, then I feel okay about McCarry at right tackle, but ideally you want McCary to be that guy that can play anywhere at a momentโs notice, including left tackle. To your point about the questions with Ronnie Stanley, so my my August 7, August 8, August 9. Prediction of the O line is Stanley Voorhees, Linder bomb, I guess FAU le lay and I think, you know, Iโll be a little more bold and say Rosengarten, because heโs starting to get first team reps, and weโre still a month out from the opener. But obviously, how they play in this preseason game, in these next three preseason games, other than Linder bomb, and I donโt think Stan Leeโs going to play in those because whatโs the upside there? I think you get an idea of how he can play in the game and practice without putting him at risk of an injury. But those other three spots, I mean, guys got to play. They got to go out and look the part, even if the offensive line as a unit looks choppy, because youโre not going to have Linder bomb out there, and youโre presumably not going to have Stanley out there for these fake games, but these games arenโt fake to the guys that are trying to earn a starting job, and that includes Voorhees, who has, to me, of those three open spots, has the strongest grip on a job right now, but he certainly still has to go out there and look the part. And you know, again, veteran players have spoken highly of him, including some times where theyโve gone out of their way a little bit. And that, to me, is whatโs telling you, ask a player specifically about some another player, theyโre never going to say, Oh, that guy stinks. Or theyโre never going to say, Oh, that guyโs not very good right now, theyโre, theyโre going to be, you know, maybe theyโll throw a little bit of constructive criticism in there, but theyโre going to be overly positive. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:43
remember when Mike Flynn said, Marshall yonda guy is going to be okay. Yeah. I remember Mike Flynn and odd and are like, this guy could play, you know, heโs going to Hall of Fame too, but, but you see that early, early on, when, when veteran players, you mentioned 62 so I had to throw Mike Flynnโs name and. Here. But when you mentioned that you know Ronnie Stanley, would know the difference, by the way, on Ronnie Stanley, because so Chad Steele called me today and said, you can come out and cover camp next week, because Lukeโs covering the Orioles. And I went out there, the first thing Iโd be looking at is that is like, Howโs Ronnie Stanley moving? Because youโre not going to see him in these games. So, like, that would be the peel in the onion back that, if you and I were having a beer today and just talking about, like, what youโre seeing out there, if you said to me, youโre youโre filling in for me today and Iโm going out there, what am I looking for? Iโd be like, the rotation on the O line. Thatโs the only thing Iโd be looking at, maybe how theyโre using different people in the secondary, because Iโm unfamiliar, especially with Mollet not being out there and them drafting a kid, Iโd be like, All right, whatโs rotation looking like a nickel and dime and Bay, if there is such a thing as a base, I donโt know, um, but Iโd be looking at Ronnie Stanley and saying, howโs he moving? I donโt worry about Linder bomb if, especially if heโs not, if heโs injured or not moving around. Iโve seen enough of him. Heโs 24 uh, heโll be okay. Um, Iโm way more concerned about the offensive line from the Stanley positioning in that if anything were to happen to him, or heโs not an eight, if heโs not very good, and I donโt know that he can be, thatโs my question. I donโt, I donโt know that he can be a plus guy, not an average guy at this point. I know he used to be a super special guy and but, you know, so was Marlon Humphrey at one point, until he dogged Simone Biles for being a good sport, idiot. I need to say that out, idiot. And you say it twice because said it on the internet, but Ronnie Stanley, that would be what I was what? Howโs he moving?
Luke Jones 11:33
I think heโs moved well. I mean, the biggest thing thatโs really stood out for me Nestor and look, I mean practice, especially when you donโt go fully live. And Iโll give you a perfect example of the difference, even when youโre doing even when the pads are on, even when youโre going thud, which is basically live to the ball carrier, and then you stop when you see a fully live play. And the Ravens ran one play that was completely live on Tuesday, and it was the third team guys. It was the rookies, and Sanusi Kane made a big hit of Kadri Ismail son, Kadir, who, by the way, Kadir is having a nice camp. You know, I donโt know if heโll land on the practice squad, but heโs had a really nice Kim. I wanted to give him a little bit of love, because heโs competing his butt off. Certainly not a, oh, just happy to be here, kind of situation. Heโs worked hard, but that specific play was so much faster, so much more intense, so much more physical than anything Iโve seen in the the rest of camp. And thatโs not a knock to anything else. It just speaks to how different the game truly is when you take the governorโs off entirely and just say, go at it. Go play football. Tackle. You know, it was one play on Tuesday, and Iโm like, Man, that is such a difference than everything else I say anyway, bringing it back to Stanley, heโs been healthy. Heโs taken part in every single practice. He has not gotten any vet days. He has not alternated, you know, heโs missed a few reps here and there, in terms of, like, when they give a guy a breather over the course of a two and a half hour practice when itโs 97 degrees, which they do that for all the linemen. Mind you, you know theyโre they rotate a little more when itโs really, really hot. But heโs been healthy. I think heโs moved well, am I? Am I going to sit, sit here and say that I had the discerning eye of offensive line play to say, Oh, he looks like all pro Ronnie Stanley again. No, I canโt sit here with any level of conviction, and say that heโs looked like that, but,
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:23
well, Josh Alessandro would know, right? You know what? I mean, like he would know what it looked like and what it looks like now and saying, and heโs been around this for 3540 years, knowing guys deteriorate. No one guys can and canโt do things when they shouldnโt, shouldnโt do things. I mean, like that would be the part of my media credential in the old days of me talking to Jim coletto and John Ogden and the other players and saying, howโs it going? Because they would light up. They would light up and say, Hey, heโs back. Heโs Notre Dame, heโs back to where he was. Or at least, donโt worry about him. You know, somebody would say to me, donโt worry about him. Billick would say, Donโt worry about him. Heโs gonna be fine. And that would tell me all. I and Kevin Byrne was at a point, and if Chad Steele wonders the difference between him and Kevin Byrne, but beside knowing football and being when Kevin Byrne would say heโs fine, I would take that as gospel 20 years ago, when they didnโt lie to anybody, when that wasnโt the hardball game, the hardball game has been different about what theyโre gonna bullshit you about. Like, quite frankly, you know that? I know that, like, just in a general sense, Ronnie Stanley better not be something that isnโt an IS. Heโs got to be an IS. I mean, I and I keep going back to that day when he tumbled and fell, and I turned to my wife aghast and said, they canโt win the Super Bowl without him. I felt that way four years ago. I donโt know that I feel that way, but I donโt feel left tackle canโt be a detriment. Left tackle last year, strong position, not an adequate position for them. Well,
Luke Jones 14:51
I mean, but they went 13 and four with attic at best, adequate left tackle play last year. So I donโt. Know if I necessarily agree that it has to be strong or the absolute strongest, itโs got to be stable, though, right? I think itโs got to be stable. Itโs got to be something thatโs reasonably dependable at the very least. I mean, look, Ronnie Stanley is not being paid as a $20 million tackle anymore. I mean, that was part of him taking a pay cut and then voiding the last year of his deal, and heโs got a lot to play for. I will say this like I said, I think heโs worked his butt off. I think the fact that heโs practiced every single day speaks to him realizing and recognizing and being cognizant of where he is at this point in his career, and understanding heโs playing for a job, whether itโs in Baltimore or wherever his next stop is going to
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:40
be a costa right now, and say, Could he play like a $20 million tackle? I would be interested to see what he and Joe and John would say. He just, heโs not that guy. Heโs what he is right now, which is like Odell Beckham last year, Good, fine veteran, good. And Iโd like, I think you would honesty from them about what they really expect from Ronnie Stanley at this point, because they expect more from linderbaum.
Luke Jones 16:05
They do, of course. I mean, yeah, I mean Lunder bombs the anchor their offensive line now. I mean, heโs going to be paid like that in the next couple years. Iโm sure heโs going to probably become the highest paid center in football, or in that top two or three realm, and frankly, has played like that. You know, heโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:21
way more money than Ryan Jensen,
Luke Jones 16:24
sure. Well, yeah. I mean, just because the sheer growth of the salary cap, it will be way more than him. But I think what they would tell you if, if it were me envisioning giving them the truth serum and then being honest with you, is, look, weโve got some questions here. I mean, come on. Weโve all watched how the last four years have played out. Itโs unfortunate as heck. This guy was so good we paid him, and then he wrecked his ankle to two days later, literally two days after they gave him that long term contract. So weโre hoping for the best. We feel optimistic that he does seem healthier than heโs been. Heโs been able to practice every day. Heโs been in the building, even going back to the spring, was here. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:04
they didnโt feel like they needed to replace him, right? I
Luke Jones 17:07
mean, they, you know, itโs easier said than done. I mean, you know, youโre not, youโre not drafting a left tackle at 30th you know, we talked about this with Rose and garden being drafted in the second round, whether heโs going to be ready to play right tackle. So I think theyโre hoping for the best. I think theyโre cautiously optimistic at the same time that I donโt think theyโre going to let you know theyโre not going to let their offensive line go down the drain. If Ronnie Stanley is what he was last year, or some version thatโs even a little bit worse, you know, theyโll, theyโll pivot to McCarry. Theyโll, you know, I wouldnโt be shocked to see if theyโd even move rose and garden over to the left side to see what that looks like. You know, he protected The Blind Side at Washington, albeit for a left handed quarterback, but itโs still the same principle in terms of, you know, you were protecting the blind side. You know, they have Josh Jones, the veteran that they brought in, whoโs played some left tackle before, you know, has at least practiced there a good bit this summer. So, so weโre gonna have to see, I think theyโre hoping for, certainly hoping, hoping and envisioning better than last year. But if theyโre do, I think that theyโre honestly sitting there with realistic visions that Ronnie Stanley is going to be a pro bowl caliber left tackle anymore now. And I think the pay cut was a reflection of that, because Nestor, as you know very well, when you ask someone to take a pay cut, what is your typical alternative? When they balk at that, typically, that means you release them. So Iโm not saying that that definitely would have happened with Ronnie Stanley, because we know what the cap situation and ramifications would have been. But you know, when youโre approaching a player about taking a cut in pay, thereโs usually, you know, thereโs an alternative there, where you move on from the guy entirely. So I donโt know if the Ravens definitely would have done that, but look, I mean, I think theyโre being realistic with where he is. I think theyโre hopeful that heโs going to be healthy, and he has been healthy to this point, you know, going through spring and summer practices. But, you know, thereโs, thereโs doing that, and then thereโs stopping miles Garrett, or stopping Trey Hendrickson, or stopping any other premier pass, you know, TJ watt, obviously. So you know, thereโs a question mark with that. And you know, do they need Ronnie Stanley to be a 10? No. Do they need him to be a nine? No? Do they need him be an eight? No, he wasnโt an eight last year, and they got as far as they did so, but they need him to be solid there. They need him to be dependable there, at the very least. And you know, thatโs what the assumption that, oh yeah, you got to figure out your other three offensive line spots so. But he has been healthy. He has been able to practice. He does seem healthier than heโs been in recent years, but itโs called spade a spade. Thatโs been a pretty low bar, unfortunately. So I think thereโs cautious optimism, but I canโt sit here and say with any strong conviction that that the Ravens had this expectation that Ronnie Stanley is going to be great. In 2024 I think theyโre hoping he can be better than he was last year. And you know, in that solid, the good range in what is going to be a contract year for him. And you know, you hope he you hope he can be that at least. Because, again, youโre still trying to figure out these other positions that youโre replacing starters. So itโs still very much a work in progress. And you know, here we go again. Weโre talking, uh, ravens, and we keep defaulting back to talking about the offensive line. Imagine, and
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:25
I was going to say to you, so, you know, clearly the the two guard positions, who the right tackle is going to be, itโs going to be rose and Garten, at some point, better be um, and Ronnie Stanley, better be upright and left tackle. Because if weโre talking about McCarey, left tackle, big, solid right tackle, you know, some Simpson signing theyโre going to make, you know, like, if thatโs where we are in three weeks, they have failed miserably in the off season. And trying to address this, if theyโre still picking up pieces, and Voorhees isnโt the answer in Clevelandโs not. I mean, all these guys that theyโve that weโve talked about forever, forget the offensive line. Weโre playing the eagles on Friday night. Luke Jones is here. Heโs Baltimore, Luke. You can find him out, but covering the Orioles as well and trying to figure out the Grayson Rodriguez thing, and get them back here and see if theyโre going to be in first place or not. What else concerns you? I mean, I know deep down, I spent enough time with you. We get together on the field, off the field, you think theyโre going to win 11 or 12 games, right? Like I donโt even know what the Vegas number is on them. You think right now, if I were to say to you, you bet me something that matters to you? 100 bucks, 200 real money. Um, youโd say, yeah, I get them at 11 and a half. Iโll bet the over on that. I think theyโre good for 12 or 13 wins. Thatโs a lot of wins, right? 10, 1011, would be a little disappointing. Thereโd be some bad interceptions for Lamar and some bad days for the offensive line if they lose six or seven games around here, right? Like, thatโs how high the bar is for them, right? Even the Orioles, they were supposed to 105 this year. Now they donโt have the number two starter. Like, now itโs just like, get to the playoffs. Um, Barry bloom, by the way, is going to join us next week. Heโs in Maui. He texts me back. Heโs like, theyโre better off being a wild card. So thatโs where I am with some old timers. I donโt think the ravens are better off being a wild card. I donโt think the ravens are better off playing more football in January than less. I donโt think theyโre better off playing on the road. I wouldnโt say theyโre better off going to Buffalo in Kansas City next year, as opposed to what happened here.
Luke Jones 22:17
What else are
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:18
you worried about? I mean, obviously, lamarโs health, I think Derek Henryโs and is not a might be, um, Iโll even buy in the flowers, and Bateman being a little better, and Andrewโs being healthy and like, I mean, Iโll buy into things will be okay for the offense. So what? What then worries you? Yeah,
Luke Jones 22:36
well, and to go back to your I donโt know if I see them as a 13 win team, because I There are very few years where I think theyโre going to be that good, just because 13 wins exactly, and yeah, and thatโs why youโre and thatโs why youโre never going to see, you know, and you know me, Iโm not a sports gambling guy, but youโre not going to see someone with an over, a team with an over, under a 13 and a half, right? I mean, I mean, unless youโre talking about, like, oh, seven patriots, kind of crazy stuff. But you know, I think theyโre going to be an 11 or 12 win team. I mean, I do. And you know, where Cincinnati falls into that, where the rest of the division, weโll see. And you know, you mentioned lamarโs health. I mean, thatโs any teamโs quarterback health. I mean, Patrick mahomes hurts himself this week at chiefs camp and is in jeopardy for the start of the season. Or, you know, look at burrow with the calf issue last year, even before he hurt his wrist against the Ravens. Look at how that hindered him the first couple months of the season. So any team quarterback health is paramount, right? But beyond the offensive line, and weโve talked about that, weโll continue to talk about that, I think you still look at the pass rush. I think you look at the fact that you lost your Davion Clowney, who was really, really good for them last year. And I get it, you didnโt want to give the kind of long term commitment and the kind of financial commitment that he got in Carolina, which was a nice payday for a guy thatโs, you know, what, 30 years old, or on the other side of 30 at this point.
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:55
But, and by the way, that money, that margin money you talk about, thatโs what happens when the quarterbacks make it 50 million. And that wasnโt the case two years ago. That is the case now. And there, these are those decisions of funny money with obell Beckham last year, funny money last year with Clowney. But you know, like they had a little funny money that doesnโt exist anymore, and it wonโt exist once they start paying Linder bomb and paying Kyle ham. I mean, thatโs just, thatโs, thatโs a sport once the quarter is
Luke Jones 24:23
awesome, right? But thereโs all itโs not thatโs a little too simplistic, though, because the capโs going up a whole lot. I mean, it has. And keep in mind, you mentioned Linda Bahman Hamilton noted, and I agree. But keep in mind Ronnie Stanley is going to be coming off the books, and even if you resign Ronnie Stanley, heโs not getting another 100 million dollar contract. Marlin Humphreys, getting to a point where value does it align with what heโs being confident. Roquan
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:47
Smith got money right out of the shore. They took away from everybody else. They got 200 clean out of here, right?
Luke Jones 24:52
But I would also point out, you know, theyโre also paying a running back way more than they were paying running backs the last few years. I mean, Gus Edwards say what you want. And again, I. At it. Gus Edwards did not look the same last year as he did in previous years, but what a tremendous value he was for them over the last four to five years. So, you know, youโre paying your youโre running back more. So, yeah, on the margins, you you have a little bit less disposable income, you know, as it pertains to the salary cap, well, thatโs what does take away from a clowny that you donโt get. You donโt get the luxury of having that anymore. Well, I mean, and keep in mind, clown didnโt make a lot. I mean, you can create a few million dollars here and there. I think where you have to be careful and where I think the Ravens really fell into trouble during the Joe Flacco contract, big contract era was, I think they paid too many players in the middle class. I think you can have your premier guys, your your five, six guys that are making, you know, very competitive money as it pertains to their position. You know, the Ravens right now. Put Lamar aside. Roquan Smith, Marlon Humphrey is still in that bracket, although not quite as high as he was three, four years ago. Mark Andrew BK, now. Mark Andrews, right? I mean, Derek Henry is a, basically a one year deal with the team option. So thatโs not really, but, but itโs more than you were in the past. So anyway, youโve got those premier guys. But I think where the Ravens really fell into trouble in the 2014 1516, 17 era was, I think they had too many guys in the roster that they were paying two, three, $4 million to at the time that werenโt really moving the needle as much as you needed. Those guys that you like, that are good depth players, just a guy, as they would say, just maybe guys that are good special teams players, but theyโre not like a standout defensive or offensive player. I think thatโs where you got to be careful. I think you can have your other big contracts in addition to your quarterback within reason, but you really need to get tremendous value from guys that are on rookie contracts. And I donโt just mean your Linder bombs and Kyle Hamilton, all pro type guys that you know youโre gonna have to pay. I mean, the guys that are really good depth pieces, like, hereโs a great example for you. Know, Patrick Queen ended up being that, and he got paid and went on elsewhere. They need Trenton Simpson now as a second year player, third round pick, guy that they really liked. They need him to and Iโm not saying he wonโt have some some growing pains this year, stepping into a starting role here and there. I mean, Queen had that a couple years ago. Talked about that a lot with Patrick queen, but he needs to come in and can he be a really good value for you the next couple years?
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:28
No one notices, coach, yeah, yeah. But I mean, well, you mentioned the Flacco thing. I want to go back to 1450 once Flacco got paid. And youโre like, well, they kind of, yeah, they paid you the issue during those years, I think. And I look it up, but I lived through it. So we go back. They did not have rookies that worked out, like Kyle Hamilton and Tyler Linder bomb. They didnโt say flowers. They did not Perryman. Didnโt spark that. You know, certainly the Sergio Kindles and he was before that. But Iโm thinking about who was the Arthur Smith. Think about it. Arthur Brown, right, second, second, third round, guys, it
Luke Jones 28:04
didnโt work, you I can go do this almost off memory, but in 13. Matt Elam, first round pick, bust, second round pick, Arthur, brown bust, 14. CJ Mosley, first round, worked out second round, what it was. Timmy Jernigan, okay, but not the you know, I think there was a thought when they drafted him that he would be adjusted. Madame certainly did not become that. You know, he wasnโt bad, but wasnโt great, either. They ended up trading him as he went to his contract year 15, Rashad, Param and bust Max Williams ended up being a decent blocking tight end, but thatโs not why they drafted him in the second round, third round. What was it? Carl Davis, who was essentially, kind of tabbed to be the guy that would step in for Haloti nada, who was traded at that point. Obviously you never thought he was going to be that, but was not a starting caliber player, you know. So you go to then you go 16. You had Ronnie Stanley, all right, hit on that, regardless of whatโs happened later in his career with the injuries. But then Kamala Correa, Bronson, cafoci in 17 it was, you know, I mean, Tyus Bowser who worked out, but not until three years later. And so the
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:13
suck to your point, Flacco got ran out of here, on that, on all of that, nobody performed around him in that way, the way that Lamar has the benefit cheap center, world class safety, you know, like just a game changing defensive piece that theyโre paying league minimum or rookie contract, I say so that helps a lot. And
Luke Jones 29:38
also, I mean, with Lamar, and we can certainly debate how well all of them have worked out to this point, but theyโve invested in draft capital and wide receivers, whereas Joe Flacco, I mean, they traded Anquan Boldin and then signed Steve Smith a year after that. Jeremy Maclin, you know, Steve Smith was good at the end of his career, but it was Steve Smith at the end of his Yeah. Oh my. Wallace was actually one of the bigger success stories they had. Maclin was a total bust. And everyone they drafted in that era was a total bust. So anyway, I mean, I donโt feel like rehashing that too much more, but you asked me things that concerned me, and we went off on this big tangent. Outside linebacker, you know, always a little bit banged up right now, little bit of an ankle issue. My only concern is, is it the same ankle as last year? They downplayed that. I donโt think itโs a major thing, but heโs missing a couple days here, assuming thatโs not a major thing, I feel cautiously optimistic that heโs going to take the next step. I think he it was understated, but I think he low key, had a pretty good year last year, albeit, was a guy that didnโt have to be the guy, because jadevion Clowney really jumped out, and Van Noy did what he did, but OA was still productive for them. They need a jump from him. They got van Noy back. I think van Noy has a chance, even at age 33 to continue to thrive in the role that heโs in right now, which he was the kind of guy that was asked to do a lot throughout his career, play off ball, drop into coverage, rush the passer, set the edge, whereas the ravens are really asking him, as they did last year, to really just rush the passer. I mean, yes, he plays the run, but he comes in in more obvious passing situations, and heโs more of a nickel edge guy because they play Malik Harrison at the SAM in early down situations, but
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:25
heโs a real hardball guy, right? Van Noy, yeah,
Luke Jones 31:27
I Yes, and no. I mean, they like him as a player, I donโt know, personality wise, if heโs that much of a you know, you see Kyle van Noy on some of the media stuff he does. Itโs not really my cup of tea, but heโs a good player. Anyway. Who else, though, when you talk about your outside linebacker rotation, you need four or five guys, and that doesnโt mean all five guys are all going to have six sacks, but you need those guys to be productive, because you donโt want van Noy have to play 50 snaps a game. You donโt want, oh, wait, to have to play 60 snaps a game. So Whereโs David ajabo right now? Well, he looks healthy. Can I sit here and say that I have confidence that heโs going to realize all this potential? I want to see what he looks like in the preseason. Theyโre going to run him around Friday guys like him, right? Yeah, heโs got to play. I mean, heโs got to play. One of the things that was said about him, even before he tore his Achilles at his Pro Day was he hadnโt played a lot of football at Michigan. He was green. He was raw. He was considered a guy that had huge upside, huge upside. And remember, he would have been a first round pick, and the Ravens ended up getting him in the second round. So not faulting that pick, but heโs missed so much development time, and he just needs to play. So you have him. Adisa Isaac, the third round pick, just got back onto the practice field. Heโs dealt with a hamstring issue thatโs hindered him going all the way back to the pre draft process. So you know, they need to get him on the field and developing theyโve got tavius Robinson, you know, weโll see about him in his second year. Point is you have Kyle bannoy and adopt a away, and even away, thereโs still some questions in terms of him living up to the first round hype with when he was drafted three years ago. But if Iโm assuming heโs an IS, even if itโs not an All Pro is, kind of is. Itโs an IS, but after that, I mean, there are snaps there for the taking, and these young guys need to step up, and are they going to get that? Weโll see. You know, I Iโm I want to believe in David ajabo Because heโs a good story. I feel bad for the kid. Heโs had rotten luck from an injury standpoint, but, gosh, heโs just missed so much development time. And Iโd be lying to you. Asked me about Ronnie Stanley and how heโs looked at camp, you know, a job. Oh, heโs been really quiet, really quiet. You know, Iโve not really seen him flashing the way that Iโd like to see him when heโs matching up against the second and third team offensive line, and that was part of the problem last year with a job. Oh, even before the knee injury, he didnโt really stand out in the preseason when heโs going up against backups. And if youโre going to be a guy, thatโs going to be a factor, you got to show something. If youโre going up against backups, you know, Iโm not saying you got to have six sacks at a preseason game, but come on, man, you got to show something. So really watching him, really watching tavius, Robinson, Adisa Isaac, still got to ramp up some. But if thereโs one area on the defense that, yeah, Iโve got some, I donโt want to say grave concern, because, my goodness, Nestor, we talked about the the pass rush so much last summer, and they let the NFL at sacks. And yes, Jade beyond Clowney was a big part of that, but that he wasnโt the only reason why. What did they do? They scheme right, sim pressures and and lots of the
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:41
McDonaldโs thing too, to some degree too,
Luke Jones 34:43
thereโs gonna be some real questions about where that drop off is, right. And Iโm glad you brought that up, because if youโre gonna ask me another concern, and look, I I have no reservations about Zach or as an individual whatsoever. You know, heโs worked hard. Heโs worked his way up the food. Chain. He, he went to Jacksonville for a year with Joe Cullen, you know, with the previous regime, with the Jaguars, with the Urban Meyer fiasco, came back. You know, heโs put it he, you know, heโs paid his dues. You know, heโs been a an assistant NFL coach from the time, you know, three months after he retired, he joined the ravens and started cutting his teeth at that point. But the transition, as was the case, transitioning from wink Martindale to Mike McDonald, you know, could it be a little choppy early in the season? Sure, but Iโll, but Iโll say this, even if everything about Zach or works out and a year from now, weโre talking about him as a hot shot head coaching candidate in the same way we talked about Mike McDonald before he wound up in Seattle. I think theyโre going to have to do a lot of the same things for their pass rush, right? A lot of the same things in terms of disguise and stunts and games at the line of scrimmage and twists and sim pressures and all that. And, you know, the other guy, thatโs an X factor that could, I could see. And this is not any knowledge I have. This is just spitballing, just a Mata BK having the year that he had. And, you know, do I think heโs going to match 13 sacks again? I think thatโs ambitious, just knowing how sacks and year to year type stuff, you know how that, especially from that position too, yeah, but to that point, you and you just, you kind of just started to make my point for me. I didnโt intrigued to see if there are some scenarios where maybe the Ravens start using Justin madam Bucha, a little more like how the Chiefs use Chris Jones, which is on some passing situations. Maybe you kick him outside and rush from the edge, and maybe you try to bull rush an offensive tackle whoโs, you know, unsuspecting of that kind of alignment. So, you know, I donโt think theyโre, Iโm not saying thatโs going to become something they do extensively, but I could see that, especially with them having some questions with the edge, you know, and because they love Mata Bucha, I think Travis Jones is a guy to really watch that could really take a big step. So maybe they use him on the edge a little bit more. But if thatโs thatโs my concern, theyโve got depth, you know, I think Trenton Simpson is going to be fine at inside linebacker. I do think theyโll probably use a little bit more dime to get him off the field in some obvious passing situations. And they did the same thing when Patrick queen was a young player. So I donโt think thatโs any knock on Simpson. I think itโs just, hey, you have all these secondary pieces. Use them, you know, when it comes down to it, if itโs an obvious situation, put Kyle Hamilton at the dime and go with that. So, you know, I think they have enough depth even to endure and survive the millet injury, even if heโs out into the start of the season. I mean, weโll see. But, you know the pass rush, I still know that thatโs a lot youโre having to replace with your Davion Clowney and I, I think they can do it in the aggregate. But what does that mean? They need to continue this collective effort that theyโve run so effectively the last couple years, and you hope will continue under Mike McDonald. Heโs Luke Jones.
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:59
Heโll be monitoring all things Ravens. Friday night the Ravens get together with the Eagles for fake football. We are watching a lot of baseball this weekend, monitoring this whole Grayson Rodriguez situation. Everything we do is out at Baltimore positive these days, obviously up on YouTube. And at am 1570 and you tired yet. I mean, once camp really end, when do they stop letting people out there?
Luke Jones 38:22
You I think itโs what the end of next week. So weโre, you know, weโre starting to wind down, but hey, we say that, but still have almost a month until the start of the season, right? So, I mean, you know, with this early start to camp, you only have three preseason games now it leads to, you get to the end of training camp in the way that fans are coming out, but thereโs still a lot of practice time to go even after that, so still have a long way to go. I think for the ravens, the biggest development this week thatโs been a little disappointing is, you know, some of these nagging injuries starting to crop up, but itโs football. I mean, you can ramp up as much as you can. The only way you eliminate injuries from football is what you eliminate playing football itself. I mean, itโs just, youโre going to have some of that. Fortunately for them, it hasnโt been anything catastrophic. But, yeah, the millet injury, you know that thatโs sounds a little problematic until we get a little more clarity on that. I mean, again, saying itโs not season ending, well, thatโs great, but weโre six months of the Super Bowl. That doesnโt mean he might miss some time here. And you know that you wonder about his status early in the season even, but weโll find out, you know, weโll find out about some of these other guys as we get closer to the start of the season. And in the meantime, buckle up for preseason football, which is something I guess, to hold us over until the opener in a little under a month. Plenty
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:43
football ahead, plenty baseball ahead. I have said to John Feinstein this week and John Eisenberg and I had a long chat about his bird tapes. This is, like the most exciting couple of months. I guess it sucks for me being locked out, not asking questions. I never sort of envisioned that, but Iโve been waiting. My whole life Iโve been waiting 33 years doing this crazy radio show. 26 years I got to change my cupcake. I think Iโm gonna do a 26th anniversary oyster. Iโm trying to figure that out with with Jessica from our web team. But this these next six months for the level of expectation on all of this to see where we are on Valentineโs Day where we are when the Orioles go back to to camp in February, to see if there have been parades, to see if there have been injuries, to see if there have been triumphs, tragedies, losses, because the level of expectation amongst the fan base here, especially for the baseball team thatโs never won and the football team that canโt win, right, like the football team, they canโt win games. They canโt win next month or in October or November. They can be 12 and, oh, and they havenโt won anything, um, because the fan base now is New Orleans or boss, Super Bowl or bust. I mean, theyโre talking that way out there. I heard guy Saint Jacoby Jones. Heโs from New Orleans. We got to get there. Itโs August. I Thatโs a nice, noble goal. But the fans, you know, a three and out for the Orioles in October and the Ravens taking a face or the second week of the playoffs. Oh, my God, most of the 26 years weโve had the station thatโd be a pretty damn good year going two weeks into the playoffs for both teams, that wouldnโt be good enough here. And thatโs a thatโs a different bar that weโve set around here. I think, right,
Luke Jones 41:21
it is, and thatโs a good thing. But we also need to remember one teamโs happy at the end. And look, I mean, weโre going to be talking about this a lot with the Orioles, and I donโt want to blame it, because this is a raven segment. But if Grayson Rodriguez is out, and weโre wondering if heโs going to pitch again and all that, that really changes my expectations, as far as what youโre really going to be able to expect, you know, in terms of October, if youโre taking your number two starter out of the equation after you already took your previous number two starter out of the equation,
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:50
now your number two start. Yeah, so
Luke Jones 41:53
but, but I think that what you just said is also a reminder to all of us still enjoy the ride here, because there are lots of cities right now who donโt have one decent team, and at least you know, and look, the Orioles donโt get a pass. We know how lousy the better part of the last 40 years have been, but the Ravens from 99 on 2000 on have been very relevant just about every single year. I mean, thatโs a quarter of a century. Now, they have been relevant other than a couple seasons. And even those seasons, what where were the years where there were no expectations? Oh, two. And they ended up going seven to nine that year. Horribles first year, and they ended up going to the A F, C championship game that year, the rookie quarterback. I mean, those, those are really the only two seasons where you really would say, going into the season, there were not very high expectations. I mean, even,
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:55
like, think about this is the highest of expectations. I guess your point. There was never a year where they were expected to win the Super Bowl, not even the McNair year when they were pretty good. They had a good quarterback. They were a favorite. They were never the favorite because Tom Brady existed, Roethlisberger. I mean, other teams were of that ilk, baseball wise, they were the best team last year. Theyโve proven sort of over the course of time, even with these injuries, they can be the best team this year, baseball wise and football wise. They were the best team last year and effed it up, and now theyโve come back, and I think Vegas has them as the favorite, right? Are they the Kansas City would be the favorite? But no, they were. They were they played third or fourth championship game The Last time they played. They were a four and a half point favorite to go to the Super Bowl at home. So, um, theyโre, theyโre still a one, two pick, one, one a pick. The level of expectations just really high here, and itโs August, and, um, thatโs advantage that as a host, as a citizen, as a radio station owner, as a you know, just being out and having this level of expectation and the spotlight on every decision Brandon Hydeโs making, right and every hard ballโs always kind of had that three runs in the AOC championship game, but and Zach Britton on the bench for Bucha alter. But the the analysis of maneuverings in game maneuverings has just ramped up for Brandon Hyde in a way over the next 60 days, where every pinch hitter and every bullpen decision, we havenโt had that, we havenโt had that in a long time, and itโs good and itโs so Iโm ramping up for that. Lukeโs doing a lot of sports. Iโm doing a lot of sports. Iโm doing a lot of sports. Weโre doing a lot of sports around here, but still mixing in all sorts of good stuff. We had Steven page on this week, formerly the Barenaked Ladies. Heโs playing on Monday, my wifeโs favorite musician. So weโve had some Canadians on. I still canโt track down Getty Lee, although I did find him, it took me to the ninth inning. I did find him. Heโs in the third row, right underneath the bug. So if youโre looking for Getty, heโs got the. All cap down. He was with a guy that looked like a rock star like me, with Luke. Iโm Nestor. We are W, N, S, T, A M, 1570 tasks in Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive, even in the midst of a pennant race. I.