In an offseason of change and what felt like attrition, the Buffalo Bills were expected to be a diminished team but quarterback Josh Allen has raised his game toward an MVP crown and a home matchup with Lamar Jackson on Sunday night in the AFC Divisional Playoff. John Wawrow of the Associated Press in Buffalo gives Nestor a complete Bills primer before the Ravens come for battle in Western New York.
Nestor Aparicio and John Wawrow discuss the upcoming Ravens-Bills matchup, highlighting the significance of the game and the historical context between the two teams. Wawrow notes the Bills’ recent success under Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane, emphasizing the importance of Josh Allen and the team’s ability to overcome adversity. He also points out the Ravens’ penchant for penalties and the potential impact of special teams. Both agree on the competitive nature of the game, with Wawrow predicting a close contest despite the Ravens being favored. They also touch on the broader implications of the game for the AFC playoffs and the potential for a Bills-Lions Super Bowl.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Bills primer, Ravens matchup, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, playoff pressure, Buffalo sports, special teams, Derrick Henry, weather impact, coaching dynamics, MVP debate, game strategy, fan excitement, historical context, game prediction
SPEAKERS
John Wawrow, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:02
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. Make sure you’re finding us out on the radio dial, setting a spot for us out on the beltway. Here, it is a big week. Traffic’s up, people’s up. People reaching to me, all over the place. I’m going to Buffalo. It’s gonna be cold. I know all of that stuff. Luke Jones will be out in Owings Mills all week, all of that. Brought to you by our friends at curio wellness as well as liberty, pure solutions. We’re gonna Maryland crab cake tour back at the LIBS grill on February the 10th, and a cup of soup or bowl kicks off. We’re gonna be feeding some local food pantries in early February during Super Bowl week. We are going to be a Cocos pub. I’m wearing my Cocos pub shirt. We’re going to be there on Wednesday, and no finer cream of crab soup to Coco’s pub down in the laraville. John warrow covers all things buffalo sports, that includes the sabers and off times, the bills, maybe a little bison as well, from time to time. And he has been a defending champion on this program, and not since the Zoom Air and the video air and all that. He does all of this for the Associated Press. You can find him@ap.org download the Associated Press app, which he told me about in the beginning. And I’m like trusted news. We all need a little bit of that. I am an old newspaper guy as well, so I I love having on people that do, who, what, where, why, when, and I know why we’re in Buffalo, because the Ravens lost a couple of games. But, man, it don’t get much better than this, right? I mean, you’re at this a long time up in Buffalo. I’ve been down here where you have the best quarterback. No, we have the best quarterback. Oh, we have the better team. This is, this is a really, really fun football game for the whole league. I think on Sunday. Well, thanks for
John Wawrow 01:38
having me on Nestor. And I agree it’s, it’s a great matchup, and a lot of questions might be answered may not be answered. A lot of people’s wishes may be fulfilled. I’m not sure, but I’m looking forward to see how the bills respond, particularly after the way they lost in week four against Baltimore and with all the underlying subplots of you know, Lamar versus Josh, this team’s better or what have you, I’m curious to see how this, all you know, unveils on Sunday in what is the Latest Big matchup here in Buffalo. And there’s some narratives also that need to be addressed. Because, let’s face it, as much pressure as the as much criticism has been heaped on Sean McDermott, the bills coach, for not getting over the playoff hump. I think the same thing goes towards towards Harbaugh because of where the ravens are. So one team is going to at least advance, likely face the chiefs who, I mean, that’s, that’s not much of a consolation prize to face, potentially the two time defending Kansas
Nestor Aparicio 02:55
City next week, right? I mean, exactly, that’s
John Wawrow 02:57
exactly what it is. So, you know, there’s so many intriguing subplots to this, given the history, given the quarterbacks, given the coaches who coach together in Philly. So I’m up for this. How
Nestor Aparicio 03:10
many years have you been doing buffalo sports now? John, since 2000 so
John Wawrow 03:14
this is it’s going to be my 25th anniversary in about six weeks. Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 03:21
yeah, I know you’ve been there a long time. And I, you know, I predate that in Buffalo, I was at the Art shell, Jay Schrader, K gone Archer, bro. I mean, I was at that game. The bills make me want to shout, you know, I think it was born that year, and we’re four decades later. And yeah, I was not at the Norwood game, but I was in resig living room watching the wide right and all of that, and all these years later, you know, all the indignities and the 17 years and not making the playoffs. I feel like watching it from afar. And I come to Buffalo almost once a year. I mean, I come through, I have lunch with my buddy Mike sprata. I usually drive across the Peace Bridge. I’m on my way to Toronto for gay Lee or something like that. But I always make it a point to spend a little spend a little time in Buffalo. See folks there, I have great affinity for everything from chicktawaga and Lackawanna to debut and Amherst and all the way up to North Tonawanda, where they need to reopen Nestor red hots up there near the carousel Museum. But I, you know, I even eat beef on Wex sometimes when I’m at Wegmans, just to honor you guys and drinking the bats whenever it’s available, I I feel awful that you guys haven’t won. I I told the story earlier to one of your buffalo compadres that when the hashik incident happened against Dallas, I was at New York in in Las Vegas sixth period of hockey, and you got cheap down in a game six on the Madonna, the whole deal. I mean, I know all of the indignities is a long time sports fan. I’ve had two parades. I’ve written a couple of championship books. Here. We had the Orioles when I was a kid. Like I’m pretty fulfilled if it never happens again, you know? I mean, I even lifted the Stanley Cup with noveshkin and Barry Trotz. In Vegas, you know, like I’m good, y’all aren’t good. And I just for while we’re six, in his 70s, for crying out loud, baloney is coming on this week. I don’t want you to beat us, but I want you to win. You know, I just want you to know that from me to you. You know, would
John Wawrow 05:15
it be, I mean, I mean homerism, or whatever aside. I mean, I think it would be fascinating to see the bills and lions playing the Super Bowl, because somebody’s going to end a long, long time drought. It might happen. It may not. But I think that the curiosity factor for these two Rust Belt towns that I’m very much familiar with, having grown up in Windsor, Ontario, would be fascinating. But I’m not sure what kind of a fascinating draw it might be on TV. But I think, you know, bills lions in New Orleans might be a really cool thing to cover.
Nestor Aparicio 05:54
Wow. Windsor, Ontario, no stranger to the Lyndal ac i That’s correct. Absolutely. I like that. John warrow is our guest. He’s at the Associated Press. I have, I had to stand up once you start talking about, you know, buffalo, in this way, we’re the franchise, and for putting this together, you’ve witnessed the bad times. I mean, I remember coming up there. Marshawn Lynch was running around or not, and things were, weren’t good. Different coaches. Rex, my boy, Schwartz, he was up there running around with the defense for a little while. Jon Bon Jovi, trying to pirate the team off to Toronto, right up the QEW for you with this turnaround and this recency of ownership, General Manager, head coach and, most importantly, the quarterback, that kind of makes it all go. This has been an incredible thing to see that stadium get erected in the middle of the parking lot, which is really impeding tailgating, as I pointed out all week in Orchard Park. But I mean, I’m pleased to see this for your community, and it certainly wasn’t willed that way, right? I mean, every every part of this is hard fought in Buffalo. Well, it
John Wawrow 07:03
has been, though, I will say Pinto. Ron is still, is still doing his tailgate in Hammer’s lot. So you still get the full Pinto experience. What does that mean? You jump off the RVs? Well, there’s that, but he’s got, he’s, he’s got, he’s very renowned. I mean, he’s got the Pinto, an old Pinto that he hauls around and he cooks food in there. You get the bowling ball shot, and then, usually at 1130 on one o’clock games, he does, he gets sprayed with mustard and ketchup. Um, it’s been a thing. He hasn’t missed a game. I think in five, I think he’s gone to
Nestor Aparicio 07:36
I’m just asking.
John Wawrow 07:37
I have no clue, because I’m usually in the press box.
Nestor Aparicio 07:42
Come on, man, I’m coming to you. You’re the source, John. Come on.
John Wawrow 07:45
But, but to really answer your question, I’ve, I’ve witnessed a lot of dysfunction over that 17 year playoff drought, and there was a sense of difference, a sense of professionalism, that entered the equation when Sean McDermott arrived in 2017 and followed by Brandon bean a few months later, they both worked together in Carolina, and they have the symmetry that I think Baltimore Ravens fans are very accustomed to in seeing how that front office has worked with Harbaugh over the years, they’re on the same page. There’s a professionalism about it. It’s not about marketing, which too often was the problem in Buffalo over that 17 year drought. It was if this is all about football and making football decisions, and we’ve seen it up. I’m not sure if the bills are if bean and McDermott are going to say they lucked out on Josh Allen because of that, how that 2018 draft fell, but they worked hard to put themselves in a position to get that number seven pick and land on Josh who has really transformed the franchise. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 08:56
he was a mixed bag the day he was drafted, right, like everyone else seven for a reason. The same way Lamar was 32 for a reason,
John Wawrow 09:04
right? Exactly. And Bill’s fans were adamantly against the bills drafting. Josh Allen, you know, and everybody. I always take the approach, as I have over the years. I want to get to know the guy. I want to get to see the guy in the field. I’ve seen a lot of busts come through buffalo before that, and I want to see what Josh Allen was. And interestingly, interestingly enough, at both ravens and Bills fans got a chance to their first glimpse of both playing. They’re making their NFL debut in that god awful. 47 to 320, 18 opener in which Peterson Peterman, sorry, the bill started through like 18 interceptions through the first half, and they they didn’t get a first down. And so you’ve got Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson making their NFL debuts in mop up roles in the. Same game, and look how far they’ve come. But I’ve watched Josh Allen mature as a as a quarterback, and just as important as a leader of this team, this this year, is his team, say what you will about the MVP vote and all that, but I but this is Josh Allen playing at his best, even though the numbers don’t entirely reflect that. But this is a Josh Allen led team unquestioned. John warrow
Nestor Aparicio 10:30
covers the Buffalo Bills and all things buffalo sports at the Associated Press. You can find him. Please download the AP app. Good news is hard to find, and real news is is more important than ever beginning All right around lunchtime on Monday for Well, yeah, I hear you. I’m talking about football this week. That’s all I’m going to say, as an opiate for my masses. Yeah, I’ll leave it at that. You mentioned MVP, you know, I’m not the phone call guy anymore. I never was that the whole nasty Nestor stick has been well worn and but I but in the modern era, the notion that it would be a mud slinging thing in one way or another, all I said, and I said this to Brandon Stokely earlier in a week, because he, you know, he caught some touchdowns around here, worked for art modell for a period of time, and we lost David Modell eight years ago this week, and I was honoring Him, who was a really good man and a sports guy who never lied to me, which, as a reporter I, you and I would boast That’s the hardest thing in the world to find, is somebody’s never lied to you, and they’ve left us, and when they’ve left US, I honor those people the most. If art and David called me and and said, How are the Ravens doing? I’m like, well, they’re going to Buffalo. I’m playing a game. And, well, tell me about the team. And I’d say, art, they have a running back. He’d say, Who’s he? Like? I’d say, art, Jim Brown. He’d say, Sure, what you use. It has never been a Jim Brown. They’d never be another. And then I and they’d say, Well, tell me about the quarterback. I’m like, well, art, you’ll love the fact that he’s African American, because you were always the one hiring Ozzie Newsome. You know, our art was on the front end of all of that, before the late 60s, and when it wasn’t cool, and George Preston Marshall was not making it cool, and, and, but if I said, Well, tell me about his statistics, I’d be like, well, he saw 41 touchdowns and four interceptions are what does he run? That’s a fumble. And I’m like, now, he ran for 900 yards this year. I mean, I don’t and we’re not. Art’s only been dead the decade. I mean, the game hasn’t changed that much, but boy, is the game change with one player who’s doing something that, even when I just give you his that forget anybody else might give you that. How can, how can he not be the MVP? And then I would also make the case against that is saying I am the biggest Derrick Henry guy there is. I’m the guy who’s always sharing my statuses from two or three years ago, saying, if they ever got Derrick Henry, they would be unstoppable, where this year they’ve got this, this other thing that makes them really, unstably, really shame if they don’t win, because, to some degree, I don’t think you could get any better than this, because they’re not going to get better than Derrick Henry, and they’re not going to get they’re never going to enter January. Is healthy as they are right now, as a unit, I
John Wawrow 13:20
totally get that and yes, and what really impressed me as I started doing my research on the Ravens earlier this morning, and I’ve not done a lot of it yet, so I’m just in the early stages, but that this team has taught 300 yards offense all season long, in all 918, games, including playoffs. And the bills haven’t done that. The bills didn’t do that. Their worst game was against Baltimore with 236 yards. But even the bills have not done that, and it shows what Derek Henry has done to that offense and really taking a part of the load off Lamar. And I like Lamar, and I mean, he’s a different quarterback than Josh Allen, in some ways, but he gets the job done, and both are challenged with the question of playoff success. Obviously, Lamar and Josh Allen have met once before in 2020, 20, with Jackson throwing that interception at Taryn Johnson return 101 yards. You know that this is why this whole thing’s intriguing, because there’s narratives, there’s all this. And they’re they’re really good players. They’re not going to face each other. But I think that there is an underlying undercurrent that one wants the best the other, and that we’re going to find out what the competitive drive is of both teams who have a lot of pride on the line. I will say this, I think the bills have an edge in being discounted. I think that is a big. Motivating factor going into this weekend, because of the All Pro vote, because of all the MVP talk, because I just looked at the BET, MGM odds, and now, yeah, the Ravens were now more our favorite. The bills were fifth. They were tied with the Ravens last week. I that don’t discount the dismissed part. The bills love to be dismissed, and they’ve been dismissed a lot this year. They flew under the radar, especially if you go back to spring where they lost. They lost six, six of eight cap captains traded Stefan Diggs to Houston, lost Gabe Davis, and it’s like, who’s going to be running this offense? Well, they won 13 games for the fifth time in franchise history, and third time since 2020 with all these different with all these moving parts that happen, this is a team that I think probably doesn’t deserve a lot of all pro votes to begin with me. You know Josh, James Cook. You can’t make the case for James Cook because you’ve got Derek Henry and saquon Barkley. So I totally get that. Perhaps the one under, under the radar guy on the defense has been Christian Benford, who’s developing into one, one of the better cornerbacks in the NFL, so I get that, but the bills love to be dismissed. They love to be overlooked. And I think that a lot of that play, a lot of people were picking Denver for some reason last week. I don’t know why, but it just didn’t match up. I get how tight this game, how tight the line is on this game and why the ravens are favored. Um, but I just, I just have the but, look out. Look just, look out. It’s it. I think this is going to be one heck of a game.
Nestor Aparicio 16:53
John warro is here from the Associated Press, uh, he covers all things buffalo sports. We’re not going to talk sabers in this one. I promise you that. Well, let’s not, no, let’s not do that. Last couple things for you, the big discrepancy in the 25 points at 3510 and where they were, Milano, you mentioned being able to get defenders back on the field. It was, It’s ancient histories, long time ago, but it was a pretty nasty beatdown. And there’s the point where the bills have had their own that as well. And in the end, it’s 18 degrees up at your place. It’s going to be a hell hole. You know, by the time kickoff happens up there, by the time it happens if Houston pulls off a miracle that that could host a championship game. I mean, just all of it lathers up, but the defense, and how much better the defense is going to need to be against the way this offense is running right now, with or without say, flowers, without
John Wawrow 17:50
question, without question. I mean, and that’s I that is one of the more frightening things to go up against. I do remember still seeing that the opening quarter of that week, four game, and the Ravens did. There’s a lot of questions about the ravens, because they they opened the season, I think, with two losses against good teams. But there are a lot of questions about what, who the Ravens were. And I remember the Ravens coming out and really just punching the bills in the mouth through that first quarter. And, you know, including that 80, what was it? 87 yard run by, by by Derek Henry, the bills were not prepared at all. Um, and I’m curious, and that’s why I think I’m curious to see how the bills respond to that, because the formula for their success was apparent in how they beat the lions. Back in December. They smacked the lions in the mouth to open that game a lot the defense did. They forced two punts and allowed and allowed Josh Allen and the offense to get a 14 point lead, much like the Ravens did to the bills in week four. And I’m curious to see if that intensity and that lesson is learned going into this game, because I don’t think the bills are going to be under prepared. And you brought up the weather, I think that’s going to be a bit of an equalizing factor, because the bills are accustomed to this, are the ravens, I’m not sure,
Nestor Aparicio 19:24
tackling Derek Henry’s everything, though, right? I mean, and as I said on it, from a strategy standpoint, this is a weird football game that’s going to be the modern era, especially with these two teams where fourth and anything might go from almost anywhere punting, not going to be a whole lot of field goals. You’re not going to let when it’s fourth and six on the 32 yard line, hardball is not going to say, let’s send Tucker out for a 49 yard. He’s going to say, let’s go get six yards. And they’re going to be fourth and six because sacks, fumbles, falling on the football. And more than anything, for the ravens, They just can’t stop. Now getting penalized, and the offensive line has put them into I mean, as great as their offense has been, as historic, DVO, way, all that stuff, my God, if they just didn’t have penalties, it would be crazy, because they would really be in first and 10 instead of first and 1520, 25 which we’ve seen so many times this year. They’ve they led the world and penalties. They’ve lost a couple games because of it, because they just once you’re at first and 25 I mean, you’re asking them to do magic that even Lamar and King Henry can’t pull off, but in first and 10, and especially on first down, when they’re gashing you and you’re in second and one and second and two, they’re going to eat you all day long, especially in the cold when you don’t want to
John Wawrow 20:40
tackle Well, no, and I totally get that. And I think the presence of Taryn Johnson in Matt Milano and Terrell Bernard will help that defense from a run stopping in a run when it comes to run Stop, will improve it now the bills are very familiar with Derek Henry, because they played him, they played him. They played him at least once a season. I want to say, going back to 2020 he’s gashed them a few times and but, but the bills have had his number. However, that was on a Tennessee Titans team that was one dimensional. I see the bills bailing out, bailing out to stop the run and forcing Lamar Jackson to beat him with his arm and make this a track beat, if they can, or have, or have Josh Allen, as they did against the Broncos. Produce 1112, 13, play drives to eat up the clock. It’s going to be tough to do against against the Ravens defense. But there are formulas for the bills to win here and in again, I just go back to I want to see how this game plays out, because the two coaches who know each other, who are who are who know how to defend and to and defend against each other too. I think this actually, you mentioned special teams. I think this game comes down to special teams and the bills. The Ravens have the advantage because the bills special teams have had their many deficiencies this year, including Tyler bass being missing five extra point attempts already this season, so
Nestor Aparicio 22:22
I can’t imagine if Bill’s losing a game at home because of a kick. I mean, that would just
John Wawrow 22:25
they did it last year against Kansas City with with bass, although Kansas it was with a minute and 30 left and bass. Bass missed a 3640 yard field goal attempt to tie the game. But that, I think, is the Aside from stopping Derek, Henry Lamar Jackson, special teams is where everybody’s holding their breasts every time the bills special teams units are on the field.
Nestor Aparicio 22:52
John warro covers buffalo sports for the Associated Press. We highly recommend you download the the app, and he’s been doing it a long time, quarter of a century, up there in Buffalo. But I don’t say it’s the biggest game. I don’t you know there’s such thing, but it really does feel like it’s a crescendo thing building in your community, as much as and I do talk about how different buffalo is in regard to it being like Alabama for college football, or whatever it would be, where it’s this civic pride and Frenzy in a way that it was here when the Ravens first got here, that it’s just, quite frankly, not anymore, after the Wembley knee and two ownerships, and we’re in our third championship run here, I think when you’ve never won, it’s different. And you mentioned Detroit some other places, but Detroit’s different than being from Buffalo as you well, know, it’s a different kind of community, and I did a lot of we would call it civic therapy radio here on Monday mornings after tough losses. You know what I mean? I that that would be the Civic therapy that will be necessary if buffalo doesn’t get it done there. It’s, it’s tough. Tough be from Buffalo.
John Wawrow 24:02
Yeah, it’s and I’m not sure what I’m going to be doing on Monday. So, I mean, last week, I predicted a blowout, so I knew this was coming. So, but we’re at that point of the state. We’re at that point of the playoffs where, especially in the AFC, where it’s three teams one year of Cincinnati, but now it’s Baltimore, Buffalo and Kansas City, and you just never know what’s going to happen. And I love this time of year. And I’m like, I said, I’m curious to see what’s going to what things are going to be like at say, what is it nine o’clock, 930 Sunday night. Yeah, it’s gonna
Nestor Aparicio 24:39
be good time. John warno will be there, he’ll be bundled up in the warmth. But then, you know, in the old stadium, you got to go outside to even get down to the locker room. So it’s yes, hey. I mean, you got to be hard to even be a journalist in Buffalo, right? Well,
John Wawrow 24:52
let’s face. I mean, the the press box windows aren’t they’re not double pane, so we can feel the cold coming through. Oh, so I
Nestor Aparicio 25:00
had that in Denver to mile high miracle game. I My, listen, I had heaters in my boots, in the press box, right? You know, in a new stadium, it was that cold that day. I mean, it was zero, it was, it was really, really cold. So I know what that’s like. And that was my whole thing. About 18 degrees on Sunday night. I said, if it was 38 I go 18 is like different level cold. It really is. Well,
John Wawrow 25:25
let’s remember and Ryan Fitzpatrick, the bills, well, the long time quarterback who’s played for numerous teams, including the bills, he’s going to be leading the charge. They just announced on Sunday, he’s the legend of the game. I like that. Okay, yes, he’s the legend of the game and and he’s legendary for during when the bills not beat the Patriots in the wild card round in 2021 I want to say, just beat them down. They scored on every possession. It was 47 to 14 or something like that. And Fitz is it was the year Fitz retired, and he brought his kids to the game, and in the fourth quarter, he was out there, although in the in the section that still had that has heaters over above, but he was out there in, I believe, three degree temperatures with his shirt off, cheering along. So
Nestor Aparicio 26:16
yeah, you make it on TV and get commercials these days when you know, you know? Well, Ryan’s
John Wawrow 26:20
always been a character from my days, and one of the favorite guys that I’ve ever covered. So God bless him. And came naturally.
Nestor Aparicio 26:28
Well, yeah, he was a block award winner who did my show when he came here. You always gonna get the Harvard guys on. When you get the Harvard guys on, you always feel like you’ve made the show a little smarter. You know what I mean. So John warrow is here. That didn’t happen today. So he’s a buffalo guy, so you’re Buff State. Where’d you go? I don’t know. I’m making that.
John Wawrow 26:45
Oh, God, Canadian. So there
Nestor Aparicio 26:46
you go. Oh, you’re Canadian, so that’s no wonder you’re so well educated and liberated. Well, we all need to know one of you at this point. So after Monday, I got a friend. Have I mentioned how much I love getting John Moro was here, and I was going to make some Windsor Canadian ballet joke about what the Tigers and the baseball players used to say to me when they went into Detroit to the Linde lac. But great football ahead. We’ve had some great, great conversations. I want to appreciate everybody in Buffalo, all my friends up there that have participated this week, Vick Carucci and others, and Brandon, so he’s been on this week as well. Luke’s out knowing smells. If there’s any breaking news, you’ll get it first on the wnst Baltimore positive tech service that is all brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy. We’re getting the crab cake tour back out on the road. Might actually be after the Super Bowl, but we are doing a cup of Super Bowl week. I got my Cocos on. We’re confirmed. We’re kicking it off at Costas on Monday, the third in the main bar Super Bowl. Bring out some canned goods and some great stuff. We’re going to feed some folks during a very challenging time of the year on maybe the Ravens will be in the Super Bowl two weeks from now. I’m Nestor. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.
