With his book on the evolution and the biography of great quarterbacks now a best-seller, it was perfect time to visit with author Seth Wickersham of ESPN, who joins Nestor to discuss what creates and powers the modern position toward success – and failure. Always a great chat with one of America’s great sportswriters.
Nestor Aparicio and Seth Wickersham discuss the evolution and biography of great NFL quarterbacks. Wickersham highlights the rarity of becoming an elite quarterback, noting the vast number of high school and college quarterbacks compared to those in the NFL. They discuss the impact of winning the Super Bowl on a quarterback’s legacy, citing examples like Joe Flacco and Jim Plunkett. The conversation also covers the importance of offensive lines and the challenges faced by quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. Wickersham emphasizes the artistry and decision-making skills required for great quarterback play, using examples like Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes.
- [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Discuss the evolution of the quarterback position with Shack Harris
- [ ] Reach out to Seth Wickersham to discuss potential future book projects
Outline
Introduction and Holiday Spirit
- Nestor Aparicio welcomes listeners to WNST 1570 AM, mentioning the Maryland Crab Cake Tour sponsored by GBMC and the Maryland Lottery.
- Nestor discusses the holiday spirit and mentions his book “Purple Rain” and the fun he had with the authors.
- Nestor introduces Seth Wickersham, a deep diver in football who has written great books, including “American Kings: A Biography of the Quarterback.”
- Nestor and Seth exchange holiday greetings and discuss the current state of the Baltimore Ravens and other NFL teams.
The Role of Quarterbacks in Football
- Nestor and Seth discuss the importance of quarterbacks in football, noting that the success of a team often depends on the performance of its quarterback.
- Seth explains the rarity of becoming a top NFL quarterback, starting from the 16,000 high school quarterbacks to the 32 in the NFL and the 10 good ones.
- Nestor mentions Brian Billick’s speeches about winning the Super Bowl and the impact it has on a player’s career.
- They discuss the careers of various quarterbacks, including Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles, and how winning the Super Bowl elevates their status.
The Impact of Super Bowl Wins
- Seth shares his experience at an event in Palo Alto, where he met Jim Plunkett, who won two Super Bowls but is unlikely to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
- They discuss the purity of winning a Super Bowl and how it is perceived differently by different players.
- Nestor and Seth talk about the one-and-done quarterbacks and the rare success stories like Kurt Warner and Tom Brady.
- They mention the challenges faced by quarterbacks who were not expected to succeed, such as Jamarcus Russell and Joey Harrington.
The Evolution of Quarterback Scouting
- Seth explains the challenges in scouting quarterbacks and the performance inflation in college football.
- They discuss the differences between college and NFL football, including the impact of the hash marks and the extra space in college games.
- Seth highlights the importance of context and the situation a quarterback enters, using Bo Nix as an example of a quarterback who thrived in a good system.
- They transition to discussing Lamar Jackson and the Ravens’ seamless transition from Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson.
The Ravens’ Transition and Lamar Jackson’s Success
- Nestor and Seth discuss the Ravens’ transition from Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson and the challenges faced by the team.
- Seth mentions the Patriots’ interest in Lamar Jackson and how the Ravens executed the transition smoothly.
- They talk about the importance of having a good offensive line and the challenges the Ravens face with their current offensive line.
- Nestor highlights the success of the Ravens in the RPO game and the importance of changing the way the game is played to succeed.
The Importance of Offensive Lines
- Nestor emphasizes the critical role of the offensive line in the success of a quarterback, noting that no offensive lineman would say the game starts on the O-line.
- They discuss the evolution of the game and the success of quarterbacks like Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes in reading defenses and getting rid of the ball quickly.
- Seth explains the importance of pre-snap diagnosis and the role of the offensive line in protecting the quarterback.
- They mention the challenges faced by the Kansas City Chiefs and the Bengals in maintaining a good offensive line.
The Artistry of Great Quarterbacks
- Seth discusses the artistry of great quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, and Joe Montana.
- They talk about the importance of seeing the game and reacting to the defense rather than following the play as drawn up.
- Seth shares a story about Mike Shanahan learning Joe Montana’s unique approach to the offense.
- They highlight the importance of experience, luck, and reps in developing a great quarterback.
The Future of Modern Quarterbacks
- Seth discusses the future of modern quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, and Lamar Jackson.
- They talk about the challenges these quarterbacks face in maintaining their success and the importance of staying healthy and having good teammates.
- Seth mentions the potential for these quarterbacks to achieve even greater success in their mid-30s.
- They discuss the playoff scenarios and the potential dangers of facing teams like the Chiefs and the Chargers.
Seth Wickersham’s Work and Future Plans
- Nestor asks Seth about his future projects, and Seth mentions a collection of his ESPN stories coming up next year.
- They discuss the importance of continuing to write and share insights about football.
- Seth expresses his appreciation for the conversation and the opportunity to discuss his work.
- Nestor wraps up the segment, encouraging listeners to check out Seth’s book and follow his work.
Author Seth Wickersham joins N… makes a great NFL quarterback
Mon, Dec 08, 2025 12:33PM • 28:49
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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NFL quarterback, Seth Wickersham, American kings, Lamar Jackson, offensive line, Super Bowl, Hall of Fame, quarterback biography, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Aaron Rodgers, playoff performance, quarterback evolution.
SPEAKERS
Seth Wickersham, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 tassel, Baltimore. We’re Baltimore, positive, positively, getting us through the holidays here, Maryland crab cake tour out on the road, brought to you by our friends at GBMC and the Maryland lottery. Crab cakes, crab crab dip. I’m going to be doing it all rock and roll. Hall of Famer Gina Schock will join us next week at Costas. We’re going to be out of Planet Fitness and Timonium on the 27th on the 22nd check it out. It is the holidays. Part of my holiday spirit here, especially when our football team stinks and our baseball team hasn’t done much, is to invite people on that I want to have on through the holidays who are like authors, and they write books like I wrote Purple Rain one and two. We had so much fun with the Purple Rain guys coming in here this week. This guy hasn’t been on this year. He’s one of the real deep divers in football. Has written great, great books. I have a copy of it’s better to be feared, but I lent it out to Luke Jones. I would hold it up here, American kings, a biography of the quarterback, Seth Wickersham, our defending champion. You don’t get a lot of Alaskans, you know, on the on the program. So anytime I can get the guy with the Rock and Roll guitars behind me writing great books, and I’m sure you’re working on another one. How are you, man, Happy Holidays to you. Happy football season.
Seth Wickersham 01:06
I’m doing really well. How are you doing?
8Nestor Aparicio 01:08
Well better than the ravens are doing right now. And certainly, as we get up on this, and you know you’ve written patriots books, who knew they would be coming back to haunt us again here this quickly. But when you talk about the biography of quarterbacks. We clearly have one here. And when your quarterbacks can’t be can’t get out of the lane, doesn’t have an offensive line, maybe that’s the underrated thing. Every offensive lineman I’ve ever met has told me the offensive line is underrated. But you know, as your quarterback goes, you go, and if your quarterback doesn’t go, you don’t go.
Seth Wickersham 01:37
Well, I think that like that’s largely true at all levels. But, you know, I’m happy to get into to diagnose the Ravens issues. But you know, what I was trying to do with the book was, you know, get it what it means to do this uniquely American job. You know, it’s not really something. You don’t play quarterback. You are one. It’s kind of a lifestyle. And you know, there are 16,000 starting high school quarterbacks. You know, in America in any given year, there’s 958 I think, at the highest level of college, 32 in the NFL, 10 good ones, three future Hall of Famers at any given time. So what does it take to go from 16,000 to three? And, you know, those are the things I tried to I tried to get out of the book.
Nestor Aparicio 02:21
You know, what’s interesting to me is that Brian Billick is my business partner. For a long time, he’d always be a Super Bowl ring out and give speeches, and he would always put the ring out and say, See that Super Bowl ring. They tell you that when you win, they can never take it away from you, but that won’t stop them from trying. And I was with Trent dillford The other night, so I bring that up a former colleague of yours as well. Um, you know, there is a point where, like the notion of the Tom Brady’s, the Patrick mums, and even in my town, Johnny Unitas, or even Joe Flacco, who’s, he’s won the Super Bowl, but he’s not going to the Hall of Fame, let alone Nick Foles, or, you know, any numbers of the Phil simms’s, and you know, people that came before. But there is something about winning the Super Bowl or losing it, if you’re Cam Newton or if you’re Donovan McNabb or whatever, it really is amazing how elevated you become. But even our two Super Bowl quarterbacks, Flacco and dolphin, they’re not going to the Hall of Fame. So they’re not, they’re considered a little bit more tarnished than the perfection, even if Dan Marino never won, right?
Seth Wickersham 03:25
8Well, you know, I think that, like it is interesting, because, first of all, yeah, you do have those guys who are kind of like one off guys, right? Like Sims, and then, you know, you have your guys, like Dilfer, who are kind of looked at as they won the Super Bowl in spite of themselves, for, you know, whether that’s fair or not. And then, you know, I think that Flacco will get a look at the Hall of Fame. I mean, you know, he, he made the decisive throws in that playoff run, you know. And I think that, like, you know, even though he hit a little bit of a morass in his late 30s. You know, he’s clearly found a career Renaissance. So, you know, he’ll get a look. But it is fascinating. Like, I was in Palo Alto a couple weeks ago, and I did an event for this book, and some other quarterbacks were there from the area, and one of them was Jim Plunkett. And it was just fascinating to be around him hear his stories, because, you know, 13 quarterbacks have won two Super Bowls as the starter, and he’s one of them, and he’s probably not getting in, you know what I mean. And Eli Manning is kind of the closest comparison to him, and Eli will probably get in, I’m guessing. But you know, Plunkett has two and he won’t get in. And so it was interesting to kind of hear it about what Super Bowls mean to him as someone who, you know, isn’t using them as an elevation of their resume. And also, you know, like no one’s. You know, I think that there was a purity to it that I thought was really interesting in the way that he described what it meant to win too. Because for him, it’s not, it’s not like the continuation of a dynasty in the way that it might have been for Brady or for Patrick mahomes, you know, it’s very isolated and contained and interesting, given that, like, you know, there’s one of him right now there, there aren’t that many people who can relate to his exact experience. In fact, there’s nobody. And that was fascinating to kind of learn about and hear. I think
Nestor Aparicio 05:35
there’s also something different, too, about being a one, one, right? And the level of what you’re supposed to be when you’re the first pick in the draft, and when it either happens for you or doesn’t happen for you or takes forever. And then there’s Kurt Warner and Tom Brady, right? It just in our era alone. And how many Jamarcus Russell’s, and how many top 10 quarterbacks, how many Joey Harrington’s? How many Trent dolfers? How many of those kinds of guys I tried to offer is different. He won. I can’t. I never take that away from him. But like guys that didn’t win, or guys that didn’t hang, or Kyle bowler guys didn’t make it in our franchise here, versus Kurt Warner and Tom Brady, and then finding this amazing success when Ryan leaf put in and didn’t right. And to me, the Kurt Warner things even more amazing because he had that second renaissance that got him in. But there’s a guy that was bagging groceries famously, and Tom Brady’s famously a guy that, you know every team in the league looked over six times and said, man, don’t need him. Yeah, there
Seth Wickersham 06:35
was an era that was kind of around that time. So it was like Warner, Brady, Jake Delhomme was another one of them. Mark Bulger, for those who really want a deep cut, you know, he had some really good years where it’s like quarterbacks seem to be coming out of nowhere. And it’s like, you know, it was no longer the, you know, people like Kurt, Warner and Brady no longer be there. Was like a norm to them. And I thought that was like a fascinating time, because it was just a huge indictment of the way that we scouted quarterbacks and looked at them and considered them and, you know, wrote them off. And, you know, you’re right. I mean, I think that, like in 1999 what Kurt Warner did is still ridiculous to go back and look at, right? I mean, he threw more touchdown passes in the season than Joe Montana and John Elway
Nestor Aparicio 07:27
ever did. I remember Vermeil crying I was at the first game you ever played. It was the beginning of the it was the beginning of Billick errors, Billy’s first game as the coach in St Louis in the dome. And Vermeil was crying on the podium because he lost his starting quarterback, and thought I got a guy who’s bagging groceries here. I mean, it’s, it’s fairy tale, it’s, it’s, it’s the greatest football story, I think, of my lifetime. In regard to, to your point, the biography of he looks like Johnny Bravo getting off the bus, he has to look a certain way. And Russell Wilson certainly didn’t have that. And I’ll get to Lamar in a minute too, because every team in the league passed on Lamar twice now, right?
8Seth Wickersham 08:05
Yeah, but I think that, like, you know what, what’s generally happened in the wake of that is that the best quarterbacks end up being, you know, the ones who are expected to be great. I mean, like, there are, there are little exceptions here and there, but for the most part, after that kind of run at the early part of the century, most of the good quarterbacks in the NFL are first round picks. And you know, they were the guys who, you know, were invested in by their teams, you know? But it is fascinating. And then, of course, you have, like the other guys who were kind of cast offs, right? They were early picks in systemically bad situations that they were weren’t able to overcome, and kind of labeled his bus. And then they go on to produce pretty good careers elsewhere, like Gino Smith, Sam darnold, Baker, Mayfield, to a certain extent, you know, those types of guys and so, um, you know, I think that, like, the the moral of this story is that, like, even after all this time, we still don’t know exactly what skills from the college game transfer to the program. And I think there’s a lot of reasons for that. One of them is the is the hash marks in college and the ways that smart coaches in college have figured out ways to exploit the extra space that the college game has that the NFL game doesn’t. And so, you know, I think that like we see a lot of performance inflation in college, where some of these guys, like Bailey zappy, owns the record for most touchdown passes in the season, and here’s a guy who can barely hang on in the NFL, but, you know, we still don’t know exactly what combination of, you know, the people who can handle the pro game, who can find and see and exploit the teeniest of Windows. And, you know, I think that. Context matters a lot. I think that, like, the situation that people go into matters a lot. Like, I think Bo Nix would be a good quarterback in the NFL no matter what, but I think the fact that he ended up in Sean Payton’s system allows him to be a quarterback who, you know, helped the team to the playoffs as a rookie, and now you know, they’ve won, you know, 10 in a row, and look like they’re headed to the number one seed. And I think that like to transition into Lamar Jackson. I think that, like Lamar would have been a fantastic quarterback no matter what. But I think that, given that he went to a team that knows how, that has a system, that has a program, and that knows how to coach and develop the position, I think mattered a lot for him. I mean, I still think that, like one of the most underappreciated transitions is that the Ravens went from Flacco to Lamar, two completely different styles of quarterbacks in a very seamless way. You know, not a lot of teams are able to do that.
Nestor Aparicio 10:53
Seth Wickersham is our guest. The book is American kings, a biography the quarterback. Nobody writes him like Seth. It’s better to be feared. A whole bunch of other books. You could check him out on his work at the ESPN over a long, long period of time, and real journalists. So I always appreciate my time with you. I’ll bring silver on to talk about how Brock Purdy did it, so we can do the other side too. But the the Lamar thing from the beginning, it’s curious, right? Like all the way through, because you can’t talk about the biography the quarterback without talking about my buddy John Eisenberg’s book, which was, they were all tall and white, and they could throw the ball to the moon, right? So there was that forever. And then Michael Vick, I mean, my guy, Shaq Harris, and you know, Warren Moon certainly, who had to go to Canada and do it at the highest level to come back and go to the Hall of Fame still didn’t win a Super Bowl, so Lamar is chasing that down at this point. And to your point, listen, I could put a lot of warts on Har ball and talk about how if the Mile High miracle didn’t happen, he certainly still wouldn’t be the coach. But a lot of things that have transpired, but the if har ball goes to the Hall of Fame and you’re sitting in there and making a case one way or another, he’d say he talked revolution back in 18 and 19, like a different kind of game. Not everybody was down with that Seth, nobody wanted him, and if they took him, they wanted him to be a running back or slot or slash or a wide receiver play like Cordell Stewart or do what Heinz Warren, did, you know, take a different role. There were a lot of teams didn’t see that role for him, for whatever reason. And then there’s, well, if I take him, I gotta change everything. We got to play like a college team and play with a hybrid team. I gotta have different guards, different wide receivers. They have Willie Sneed around here as a wide receiver bidding just because he blocked really well that which is what they needed in 18 and 19 and 20 early on. But they have not just embraced Lamar, but to your point, had to build in a completely different kind of draft system, free agents, what’s valuable to them. And then they came to Jesus, quite frankly. So we got to get here, Derek, Henry, and the last couple of years is when I’ve believed in it even more. And I guess with health and offensive line and how much money you have, but the the notion that you would change the way you’re going to play the game is something the Ravens did, that not everybody’s willing to do. Play the RPO game and think you could win. And they won a lot of games here that way.
Seth Wickersham 13:16
Yeah. So I reported in my patriots book, you know how interested the Patriots were in Lamar Jackson in that draft. And then Belichick wrote a book he did like kind of a business type of book that came out of the past year. And in it, he talked about their interest in Lamar and how at the end of the day, they didn’t think, they thought it was too much to try to have Lamar on the roster and have Tom Brady, and have to run two completely different styles of offense at that time. And you know, that’s what the Ravens were able to do, which is really fascinating. So that challenge, I think that, like fans might hear it and think, you know, what’s the big deal? But like, if someone like Bill Belichick saw that challenge is too much for what they were trying to accomplish at that time, too much for the plans that they had, and a team like the ravens, you know, took it on and executed it so seamlessly, I think you know shows you know, just how good that staff is there, and you know, obviously, how good Lamar Jackson is.
Nestor Aparicio 14:25
8Well, there’s not going to be any regrets about drafting Lamar. There might be some regrets about what you put around him, certainly from the offensive line part this week. You know, as we start to it starts to fall apart, certainly this season.
Seth Wickersham 14:39
Well, I think that, and I think that, like, you know, the other regret is, is that is cosmic, and that’s that the Kansas City Chiefs have existed. And, you know, we look at the ravens and we look at the bills, and it’s like, everything they do during the regular season is kind of. Of, I don’t It’s not worthless, like, that’s not the right word, but it’s like, it’s all Prelude, and it’s hard to watch those teams and not, you know, think, look, it’s great that you guys produce this type of regular season in so many fantastic moments, whatever it might be. But like, you know, January is, is when it matters for them, and that’s the definition of their season. And, you know, that’s a tough way to go through, you know, to be like the Indiana Pacers of this era who were just unable to get through the Chicago Bulls. You know, that’s a tough way to go through the season. I guess that, like, that’s in one sense, they’d have it no other way, but when I watched them, that’s kind of what I think about. And, you know, and I think that Lamar Jackson has put together some good playoff performances, you know, that if things had gone a little bit differently, you know, they have a chance to, like, move on, and, you know, perhaps compete, you know, win a championship, but, like, you know, that’s the curse of this, of this era for them, I think, is just that, like, they’ve been spectacular, but the Chiefs have been better. And, you know, that’s how we’re going to remember this era, unless something changes drastically for both the ravens and the chiefs
Nestor Aparicio 16:22
in the bills. I think of the chiefs in this era. I think, you know, I talked about Tyree kill, or talk about even the defense of Chris Jones and what spagnolos represented, and the players they’ve had there, but there’s always been this problem on the offensive line there, right? I mean, it’s, we’re going back four or five years, where it’s like, is it good enough? Can they patch it together? That’s been the Bengals issue since they got borough, and right now, that’s the Ravens issue. In the middle of all of this is and look, I’m 30 years into covering the league, and, you know, talking about it day and night, writing books like you. And you know, on it the offensive line, and I joke about it every offensive line I’ve ever known, no offensive lineman I’ve known would say to me, it all starts on the O line. They told me that back in 96 Steve ever told me that when they get off the boat here, John playing guard, you know, when you don’t have it, the symphony is not the same. And that’s if you’re Tom Brady in Tampa, if you’re Patrick mahomes in Kansas City, if you’re Lamar Jackson in the prime of your career here with all of this talent around you, time and confidence and the safety of my line is going to hold however long a second, two, three, however long I need. I think the evolution of the game, and one of the successes of Brady and Manning was reading defense is just getting rid of the ball. You couldn’t sack them, you just act them. That’s a different kind of style than what they’ve than what Lamar is playing right now, certainly in grounding things out, no o line, you’re not going to win, or you’re going to really be hampered, as the Kansas City Chiefs have been in this era that they might have won them all if they had the focus on the offensive line, let’s say the Joanne drusies of the world that, you know, that Belichick had put together through that period of time.
Seth Wickersham 18:08
Well, it’s a great equalizer. Is it like everybody has the same amount of money to spend? And, you know, I get into the mythology of the quarterback in the book quite a bit. But, you know, we’re so excited about quarterbacks, and you know that a good quarterback can inspire so much hope that you know we and when you watch the greats in certain moments, it’s like they take over the game, and it’s almost enough to dupe us into thinking that they can cover up for anything when you know, context does matter, and like, you do need good personnel around you. Like people always talk about system quarterbacks, like, it’s like a and it’s kind of a flight right, that this guy is a system quarterback, when, like, every quarterback, to a certain extent, is a system quarterback like John Elway is the least system quarterback ever, and yet, look at his numbers under Dan Reeves and then look at them versus his offenses with Wade Phillips and Mike Shanahan. I mean, it’s completely different. And I think that, like, you know, the offensive line is, like, is an unbelievably critical part of that, and it doesn’t take a play off well, I mean, and also, just like, again, we think that that quarterbacks can cover up anything, but you know, they do need good players around them. And you know, I think that, like what you mentioned with the Patriots. And you know what Peyton Manning did late in his career? I think is was fascinating, because they they got older, they didn’t want to get hit, and so they had to get rid of the ball quickly. And they did it almost all by pre SAP, pre snap diagnosis, by. Like, you know, looking at the matchups, looking at the defense, looking what they know, looking at what they know, and determining that there was, you know, a primary receiver on the play, and if that guy wasn’t open, they were looking at the outlet. If the outlet was covered, they were throwing the ball away and living to fight the next day. I have the scene in my book. Rewind back to 1992 I think, Mike Shanahan, whose son Kyle, now coaches the Niners. You know, had just gotten to the 40 Niners and was their offensive coordinator. And he was trying to learn the bill Walsh West Coast offense. And Joe Montana was at the 40 Niners at the time, but he was injured, and he knew that the coaches kind of wanted to move on from him. And then you have Steve Young, who was playing at an MVP level, but was still kind of looked at by the fan base as under achieving relative to Joe Montana. So it was a really interesting situation for him to walk into. And so Shanahan got there, and he asked to spend time with every quarterback for two days alone in the offseason, young Montana and Steve Bono and he wanted to learn about each quarterback and learn about how they saw the offense. And after he had done it, he called Joe Montana back in and he said, Joe, we have to go through this again. You look at the offense differently than everybody else I don’t understand. And Montana was kind of like I was kind of hoping you wouldn’t notice that, because he didn’t trust anybody at the building at that point in his career. And he said, Look, I can explain things, but we got to keep it here. You can’t give my edge away. And so Shanahan said, you know, I promise. And Montana told him how he he how he saw the game, and that’s that, like, he didn’t see the game through the pure progression offense that Bill Walsh had drawn up, that had revolutionized football, greatest offense that anybody had ever seen. And yet, here was Joe Montana saying, like, I don’t really go according to how Walsh drew it up. I go according to what the defense is doing, and I know where everyone is going to be. And my edge over Steve Young is that he does it as Bill Walsh drew it up, and because of that, he holds the ball too long and he’s getting hit, or he’s fumbling, or he’s taking unnecessary sacks. And I think that, like that’s the difference between great quarterback play and legendary quarter, you know, artistry, which is what Joe Montana was doing. And, you know, I think I see that a lot with a lot of quarterbacks. And, you know, there’s a magic to it, to learning how to get to that level. But there’s also just, like, a lot of luck and reps and circumstance that matters. But like, you know, I think you start to see the leap that those guys make as quarterbacks, when they start to see the game and react to what the defense is doing, rather than how the head coach and the and the offensive coordinator drew up the plays.
8Nestor Aparicio 22:58
Seth, record Sham is our guest. The book is American kings, a biography of the quarterback. Go pick it up. Go read it. Check him out on the on the internet, I would say for Aaron Rodgers, having come Yeah, to Baltimore as a 42 year old, broken nose, broken down, no offense, couldn’t do anything last week, defensive late first quarter, maybe early second quarter, he camped the line of scrimmage in the red zone and waited the clock, waited the clock, waited the clock, called audible at the line, put them in the motion, and the Ravens had to call a timeout. Now. Tony Romo, who’s the smartest guy in the room, said, You know, he had the safety pinch down on at the bottom of the screen. That was going to be a touchdown, like it was just going to be he he saw what Aaron Rodgers saw as a quarterback that you and I are like, I don’t know what he just saw, but he saw something. He’s sitting up straight. Yeah, that’s when the broadcast becomes great, when the game becomes great, and when I start to learn, because I’m I tweeted out Aaron Rodgers is still the smartest guy in the building. Might you know, just, he just is, because he’s done it more than anyone at a level. No, that’s why he’s going to the Hall of Fame. But that is his superpower.
Seth Wickersham 24:08
It’s an artistry. Yeah, it’s an artistry. And again, it’s like, that’s what separates guys, if you could ever get to that level. And I mean, Rogers has had it for years. And, you know, we should have mentioned him when we mentioned Peyton and Brady earlier. But like, you know, again, it’s like you’re seeing a fundamentally different game. And Steve Young talked about this where it’s like, if you can make that transition, if you can just survive all of the, you know, landmines that are there to destroy your career, if you can just survive, the game becomes easier. I’m not going to say it’s easy, but it’s easier.
Nestor Aparicio 24:41
And Geno Smith, right? Is a modern example, right? And like, well, he, I
Seth Wickersham 24:45
8don’t think he quite reached that level. But like, you know, yes, he’s, he’s one of those guys who survived. But I think that, like, is, we’re looking towards the playoffs. Look, I think that like Denver and New England, or New England and Denver are going to be like the high. Seeds, but underneath that, you have a lot of dangerous teams that maybe are going to sneak into the playoffs with not great records. So Pittsburgh, Baltimore, if they sneak in, even the chiefs that they sneak in the Chargers. I mean, like those teams are dangerous teams, and if I’m Denver or New England, it scares me a little bit to think about playing against those teams with those coaching staffs and those quarterbacks buffalo to where their regular season record wasn’t great, but you get to the playoffs, and they can be exceedingly dangerous, especially with nothing to
Nestor Aparicio 25:37
lose, but nothing scares you as much as Stafford given again, one one experience trying to win a second one, right, like all that, and now at cruising at a level that might not have been predicted of Him, let’s say, after Jim Schwartz got fired in Detroit. And it was, yeah, yeah.
Seth Wickersham 25:56
And, I mean, that’s the NFC, but like, if you look at Stafford, like, again, he’s at that level. I mean, he’s the guy who’s doing what Brady and Peyton and Aaron Rodgers did. You know? He’s playing quarterback at a true artistry level. And I think that, like, that’s what makes it so fascinating to watch. And there’s so many things that have to go right. I mean, you have to have the right teammates, the right offense, you have to stay healthy, you have to learn from your mistakes, and keep that drive, that competitive stamina, going. But like, clearly, those guys have it. And I was my, one of my buddies texted me the other day that, like, you know, look, Patrick mahomes, his best football is behind. That guy might still be the best player in the NFL for the rest of his career, but like, he’ll never be as great as he was in 2022 and like, I think that, like, if people like mahomes and Alan and Lamar and these guys can just keep hanging on and stay healthy, I’m fascinated to see what they do in their mid 30s when, like, the game becomes so much easier, and they understand quarterbacking at a truly, truly, truly Elite level, and that’s not considered. I’m not trying to, like slight them in any way. I’m just saying that like these guys who are great, like Jackson, like Alan, like mahomes, if they can just keep learning and keep that drive and stay healthy and stay on decent teams, what they’re going to be able to do in their 30s is going to be astounding, I think. Seth, what are you doing
Nestor Aparicio 27:21
in your spare time when you’re not promoting America kings of biography the quarterback, which you wrote earlier this year. You got another one you doing? You got something you’re up here, so you’re writing maybe, no, oh,
8Seth Wickersham 27:30
we’ll see. I don’t know about that, but, like, I don’t know if anyone would buy it, but like, I’ve got a collection of my ESPN stuff coming up next year. I’ve got some good ESPN stories coming that I’m excited about. And you know, I appreciate your time. It’s always good to talk to you.
Nestor Aparicio 27:44
I love having you on man I like and I love following you out on the keep giving some recommendations of this and that when you’re out traveling the American dream of football. Seth Wickersham can be found out on the internet. The book is American kings, a biography the quarterback. And we just summed up pretty nice little 30 minute conversation about modern quarterbacking. Next time we’ll just do offensive line, I’ll bring balding or in or something like that, because you can’t win without an offense line. Don’t forget us guys. And I’m like, that’s pretty much what the 2025 Raven seasons about at this point. So always a pleasure, man. Hope to see you down the line. Be well, thanks man, thanks for always taking my call. Seth Wickersham here. Go check his book out. No one writes him better than he does. You can find me out on the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by our friends at the Maryland lottery in conjunction with our friends at GBMC. Well, save me with the colonoscopy a couple weeks ago. I’m reminding everyone out there do what you need to do. They’re right around the corner. You got doctors. You have people who take good care of you over GBMC. I’ll be talking more about that into the new year as well. I am Nestor. We are W NSD am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore, positive. I.
