It’s always lively when we convene with Allen McCallum and Luke Jones on the Maryland Crab Cake Tour for a sit down and baseball conversation. The dynamic duo convenes with Nestor at Costas Inn in Timonium for a summer reality check on the Baltimore Orioles, the upcoming labor crisis and how it might act to inspire Rubenstein, Arougheti and Elias to act in the coming days and weeks.
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones, and Allen McCallum discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ struggles and potential trades. They highlighted the team’s defensive issues, particularly with players like Gunnar Henderson and Koby Mayo. They debated the feasibility of trading Adley Rutschman and Jackson Holliday for immediate help, noting the team’s lack of impactful trades in the past. They also discussed the need for better offensive performance and the impact of injuries on key players. The conversation concluded with reflections on the team’s ownership crisis and the need for a more balanced approach to rebuilding.
Orioles and New Ownership Crisis with Elias
- Nestor Aparicio introduces the show, mentioning previous guests and the location at Costas in Timonium.
- Nestor discusses the Maryland Lottery sponsorship and the new Ravens scratch-offs.
- Nestor, Luke Jones, and Allen McCallum reminisce about their past collaborations and long-term association with WNST.
- Nestor shares a personal anecdote about attending his mother’s funeral and meeting a former teacher who knew him.
Current State of the Orioles
- Nestor and Allen discuss their frustration with watching the Orioles, with Allen mentioning turning off games due to the team’s performance.
- Nestor lists the team’s current needs: a center fielder, a right-handed bat, more bullpen help, a catcher, and a third baseman.
- Nestor and Luke joke about past trade deadline acquisitions, including Todd Zeal and Scott Mollen.
- Nestor emphasizes the need for the team to make significant moves to improve their chances for next year, considering the potential impact of a war.
Future of the Orioles and Trade Scenarios
- Nestor and Luke discuss the possibility of trading key players like Adley Rutschman and Gunnar Henderson for immediate help.
- Allen expresses skepticism about the team’s current construction and the need for a combination of selling and buying to make a playoff push.
- Nestor and Luke debate the potential value of players like Taylor Ward and Tyler O’Neill in trade scenarios.
- Allen highlights the importance of having players who can perform under pressure, citing examples like Cal Ripken and Eddie Murray.
Defensive Issues and Player Development
- Nestor, Luke, and Allen criticize the Orioles’ defensive play, particularly the performance of players like Gunnar Henderson and Koby Mayo.
- Allen suggests that the team needs to re-evaluate their defensive development and consider moving players like Henderson to third base.
- Nestor and Luke discuss the impact of injuries on the team’s performance and the need for better player evaluation and coaching.
- Allen emphasizes the importance of having players who can consistently perform well defensively, citing examples of past Orioles who excelled in this area.
Philosophical Discussion on Team Building
- Nestor, Luke, and Allen discuss the broader philosophical issues with the Orioles’ team-building approach, including the emphasis on analytics and the lack of defensive prowess.
- Allen argues that the team needs to find players who can fill key roles and drive runs, rather than relying solely on high-upside prospects.
- Luke suggests that the team needs to be more aggressive in trading for proven talent, even if it means sacrificing some long-term potential.
- Nestor and Allen express frustration with the team’s inability to develop players who can consistently perform at a high level.
Impact of Ownership and Community Perception
- Nestor and Allen discuss the broader issues with the Orioles’ ownership and the lack of connection with the community, particularly in a city with a significant African American population.
- Allen suggests that the team’s lack of diversity on the field may be contributing to a disconnect with fans.
- Nestor and Luke express frustration with the team’s inability to win and the impact on fan loyalty and engagement.
- Nestor emphasizes the importance of rebuilding trust with the community and the need for the team to make significant improvements to regain fan support.
Final Thoughts and Future Plans
- Nestor, Luke, and Allen wrap up the discussion by reflecting on the challenges facing the Orioles and the need for significant changes to improve the team’s performance.
- Nestor mentions upcoming events and sponsorships, including a crab cake event at Koco’s and a return to the State Fair.
- Nestor and Luke joke about their personal experiences with crab cakes and the impact of their diet on their health.
- The segment concludes with Nestor signing off and thanking the audience for tuning in.
Nestor Aparicio 0:00
Welcome all. We are WNST AM 1570 Towson, Baltimore. On my crowded set, we are at Costas in Timonium. The way the coach would say. Oh, we had Michael Buchdall on this week talking Phillies Orioles Heat Room with Charlie Eckman for years with the blast. So
Luke Jones 0:18
some great
Nestor Aparicio 0:18
Eckman stories. We’re at the OTB and at
Luke Jones 0:22
the
8
Nestor Aparicio 0:22
the Timonium Spa as Dick Girardi once called it. We’re Costas. We’re having crab cakes here. I already had a fried crab cake and a salad because my Planet Fitness physique is getting me back. Our GBMC sponsorship. Don’t tell anybody my crab cake was fried. I’ll lie and say it was broiled. It was not. It’s all brought to my friends at the Maryland Lottery. We have the new Ravens scratch-offs. I love the Kiss Bird face. That’s my favorite Kiss Bird face for the Ravens. We’ve had a couple of winners out here today as well. I got two guys here ineligible. Although Alan’s eligible, not really employees have one. Luke, you can’t have one, but you can hold one up. Luke Jones is here. Alan McCallum here. You guys been in the same room more than three times in your lives together. Other than
Luke Jones 1:03
five or six, at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’ve known each other a long time. I worked at WNST for a long time now, and Alan predates me there. So, so yeah, we know each other. I mean, we don’t see each other. But
Nestor Aparicio 1:15
you don’t do like doing radio together. We’ve done this like three times, maybe ever. Yeah,
Luke Jones 1:19
we’re we’re on five or six seasons. Yeah, we yeah. So last year we did right around this time last year. It was All Star Break trade deadline somewhere in July, because it was before two
Nestor Aparicio 1:30
readers in we did Readers and Ricestown together, didn’t we? The three of us. That sounds right. Yeah, we we did Costas and Dundalk together last fall.
Luke Jones 1:36
We did right around was it right during the World Series or right after it.
Nestor Aparicio 1:40
Koco’s, where’d you go? Right after a state fair.
8Luke Jones 1:44
We’re at state fair.
Nestor Aparicio 1:45
They’re all running together from there. Yeah, yeah.
Luke Jones 1:46
They do run together, but yeah. What’s
Nestor Aparicio 1:48
like the years with Alan? You know, like Jeffrey Mayer. How many years ago was that? Quick, 30, right? Right. 30. Right. Wild. I started doing
Allen McCallum 1:56
- So essentially, my entire adult life has been full of Nestor.
Nestor Aparicio 2:04
Well, and I was there to say goodbye to your mother last week, and Paul Evans walked in. He was a legend in the stat world, and a legend at your mom’s high school, and a teacher. And I could not believe that he didn’t know you, and you didn’t know him, but he knew me, and he looked at me. He’s like, “What are you doing here? And I’m like, “Cause he knew I didn’t go to his high school or be taught by your mother. And I’m like, “Alan’s my dude. He’s like, “mrs. McCallum, and I taught 22 years ago. And I’m like, “You don’t know Alan. And then your sister was there, and she’s giving you Orioles trivia. And but I mean, it was a beautiful thing for you, mom, and to see how much love was given to you, mom. I just want to start that. Don’t make me cry. My mother’s birthday was last Sunday. We were cast as a Dundalk. My other my mother’s birthday’s birthday is Monday, which is our 28th anniversary. I’m taking the day off to go to Kenny Lee, and but yeah, I know it’s been it’s been tough for you. Been watching the birds providing any mystery sal for you?
Allen McCallum 3:01
Have they provided a salve for me? No. If I’ve been watching the Orioles, I’ll tell you what Nestor. For the first time in the last couple weeks, there have been moments when I when they were stinking up, and I turn them off because like I I’ve got enough right now. I don’t I don’t need this.
8Nestor Aparicio 3:17
14 to nothing.
Allen McCallum 3:19
I think I turned them off at eight, eight to nothing, and I
Nestor Aparicio 3:22
probably did not watch.
Luke Jones 3:23
Neither of us watched that way. Neither of us watched the game.
Nestor Aparicio 3:26
That’s what happened. You better tell them. Yeah,
Allen McCallum 3:28
I was running around yesterday, so I heard, I knew what was going on. I wasn’t right in front of the TV, but I saw, I saw the comeback. So that was that was exciting. Look, hey, if there’s any more frustrating team to to root for than the Baltimore Orioles in the last three years, at least I can’t think of which team it would be. But hey, they won a game yesterday. It’s good.
Nestor Aparicio 3:56
I’m making Luke Jones the executive producer of all things this segment at this point, you know we can date this and talk about they need a center fielder, they need a right-handed bat in the outfield. They already have one. They got two. They got two, and they both are lousy. They need more bullpen help in Helsley and Rico Garcia. They don’t have a catcher, and they have two catchers, but they don’t have one right now. They don’t have a third baseman, but they have four of them, and they have the Encarnacio and Strong CES, as they call CES. He’s been here a week and a half. He’s going to the Hall of Jim Travers. He won the Hall of Fame. It’s
8Luke Jones 4:30
probably a good comp.
Nestor Aparicio 4:30
Yeah. Well, there you go. I’m working on it. I want a Mike Paliarullo or a you know. You don’t want a Mike. Who was the guy we got in Scott Zelly? Zelly. Zelly. Zelly.
Allen McCallum 4:41
He’s got Zeal, Todd Zio, Todd Zio. That
Nestor Aparicio 4:44
is,
Luke Jones 4:44
I was actually dude. I just
Nestor Aparicio 4:46
mentioned Jeffrey Mayer. He was on the field, and that was next year. Todd
Allen McCallum 4:48
Zio and Pete Incavilia.
8Nestor Aparicio 4:50
Inky Dinky Dill.
Luke Jones 4:51
That was that was the august 31 deadline. Bigger
Nestor Aparicio 4:54
than Lonnie Smith. Not as good as Bob Horner.
Luke Jones 4:57
Yeah.
Nestor Aparicio 4:58
Not as good as the Keith Moreland.
Allen McCallum 5:00
Could bring in a Jim a late stage Jim Tomey or Vladimir Ko’ram. How about
Nestor Aparicio 5:03
Kevin Bass? You want to go with one of them?
8Allen McCallum 5:06
King Griffey Jr. Doug Drebeck. King Griffey Jr. would have preferred that we had never traded. Well, this is why I don’t want to sit here. Seriously, in
Nestor Aparicio 5:15
the middle of all this delicious food and all of this sport at the OTB Emporium, I don’t want to play the game where I mention every really really lousy trade deadline acquisition going back to the beginning of time because like literally since this has been a thing, and I’ve been on the air 35 years pretty much when it started to be thing in the 90s. Keith Moreland. Keith, I gave you Keith Moreland already. I already gave you. Oh,
Allen McCallum 5:38
sorry, I missed that.
Nestor Aparicio 5:38
I gave you Drebeck. I gave you Bass. I gave you. I was in the locker room when Lonnie Smith walked in that day, and we’re like, “There’s the savior, the hero of the 1980 World Series. It’s 1994. But literally, that’s funny. That’s funny. Well, I got a lot of funny baseball in me, but I I don’t let you executive produce this, Luke, because
Allen McCallum 5:57
Aaron Hicks. Aaron Hicks did a good job for them. Okay, did good job better than Jack Flaherty when he wasn’t? Oh, some
Luke Jones 6:02
some of the names we just mentioned weren’t trade deadline acquisitions, though. Like even Aaron Hicks, that that was a that was in season, but that was actually that was like late May. Yeah, Mullins got hurt on Memorial Day. Okay, I remember that, and then Hicks had just been let go of what the Yankees had DFA them, I believe, and he was out there, and then they signed him. But, but yeah, trade deadline. I’ll give you one that he did everything you could have possibly asked him to do, but it just hurt trading away the guy that they got him. You know that they gave up for him, Andrew Miller. Andrew
Allen McCallum 6:36
Miller, Bobby
8Luke Jones 6:38
Vania. Yeah, Bobby. Bobby Benia. I mean, Bobby Bailey was good for the Orioles. I can’t believe
Nestor Aparicio 6:42
I called him Scott Zeely, Todd Zio, and Scott Mollen. You’re thinking that’s what I did. I make that 30 years.
Allen McCallum 6:49
What’s the ESPN guy, Zelly? Wasn’t there a Zelly on the ESPN? I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 6:53
know. No, no, no.
Allen McCallum 6:54
But yeah, Scott. I
Luke Jones 6:55
just remember Todd Zeal pump faking and throwing the ball right into the air. I mean, as a 13-year-old Orioles fan, and that was the first time I was ever watching them, having any consciousness watching them in the playoffs. That you know, obviously the mayor thing had happened at the beginning of the series, but I, dude, Todd Ziel, I hear that name and I just think of him spiking the ball. If we’re gonna do shitty Oriole
Nestor Aparicio 7:17
memories, I’m gonna give you one, and then we’re gonna move on to whatever the. There’s a lot of them, by the way. I got two words for you. Ready? Yeah. Jack. Cust.
8Luke Jones 7:25
Cust. At least that was funny, though. He was
Nestor Aparicio 7:29
a good guy. I mean,
Allen McCallum 7:30
I’ll still pull that up on YouTube and have a chuckle. Hall of Fame spring training. See,
Nestor Aparicio 7:34
your era laughs at that. My era laughs at early when I need pretty much big picture on all of this. Let’s pretend somebody’s listening on Tuesday, and they’ve dealt a bag of beans for a bag of bones, or they’ve dealt Adley Rutschman for a pitcher. I’m making this up. I don’t even know what could be attractive. Last time I said, I had Zach Dermot on from Farming Dermot, and I’m making up trades like, well, if they dealt, let’s say they wanted to deal Rogers and throw Ruchman in, could they get two real players to replace them that may have next year? Because to me, that’s going to be the play. And since you got my head working on it, Luke, the Elias part of this was what can we get that would help me next year? I haven’t met a baseball person this week. I’ve had Buster Olney on. He says hello. I’ve had Tim Kerpshin on. I’ve had Janet Marie. I had Evan Drellick on. I’ve done a lot of baseball this week. There’s no one that believes anyone should be thinking next year’s a thing. Yeah, like a season. Like wow. Like literally, we’re not going to have a spring training. It’s going to be screwed up if it happens at all. It’ll happen in May. There’s going to be a war, so prepare and manage your roster for the war. But don’t throw the towel in because for the Tigers, they can get whatever they want for screwball, but they there might not be a next year. And if you work there, sell tickets there, whatever you do there, have a baseball job there, you want to be in the baseball business. That baseball’s got 10 weeks left, and let’s go get them and play like there is no tomorrow. And so I’m hearing that, and I want to factor that in because I do want to talk about the future of the team, no matter what they do this week, as looking to the future because none of us believe in the present, right? There’s nobody here that believes in what this is right now. We were just talking
Allen McCallum 9:22
about this. Look, if you tell me there’s a scenario where the Orioles can get into the wild card, I can accept that. It could be it could
Luke Jones 9:30
be 82 or 83 wins. Like that’s that might be a very low bar.
Allen McCallum 9:33
But if you’re asking me, are they going to do anything once they get into the playoffs? No, I do not believe that. So, is it good enough for the fans in Baltimore just to get in? It’d be good
8Nestor Aparicio 9:44
enough for David Rubenstein and Araghetti, and they’re the only guys that matter. Every time you guys start talking baseball and this and that and minutia, I go back to the two guys that run the team who clearly have made a bobblehead of themselves and wrote a book. There’s one guy, the other guy’s up on Cal Ripken and best bunk. He’s with Cal Ripken because he’s trying to like work his way in, and nobody in the city’s met the guy yet. The reality-he’s going to be the guy who really owns the team.
Allen McCallum 10:06
The reality, reality of this team is that they’re only in contention because the rest of the American League is so mediocre, too horrible. That’s the reality, and if that’s what you want to base your success on, your your bar is very low. This team, but that’s the only thing that
Nestor Aparicio 10:20
is-is this year. That’s all that we have, right? I understand
Allen McCallum 10:23
that. So if you if your belief is there will be no season next year, we might as well take a shot at it now. Fine, but I still don’t think that as it is currently constructed, just adding is the way to to make that happen. So what do I mean? I’m talking about you have to make some decisions about who do you let go to make room for somebody else, and that’s those are the pieces that you’re going to have to work with. So, yeah, combination of selling and buying, I think, is what the Orioles have to do, even for this year, to get to a point where they can even make a little bit of noise in the postseason.
Nestor Aparicio 11:01
Well, well, Luke, I mean, I bring up with you. And again, if somebody’s listening on Tuesday and they make a trade or don’t or whatever, but to me, I’m not shocked if Rodgers or Rutschman or one of those guys are gone in regard to we’re going to get somebody else’s player that we’re going to have control of. That’s a third baseman next year or an outfielder next or a piece for us. I don’t know how they’re pulling that off, but I don’t think this is about giving up double A pitching to get a relief pitcher. I don’t think that that’s what’s going to. I don’t think they’ll win those battles. I think other teams will offer more and are in a better position, both at the farm level and in a better position to win to overbid for the four or five arms that you would want that are bullpen arms, or for Scouble, or for a special player, I see no scenario where they should be standing pat right now, or saying we love all of our major league players, we can’t win without Jackson Holiday. I’m not dealing Holiday for Scouble, but it did occur to me on Wednesday. Had they made that deal two years ago, they would have had the ace that they sort of wanted, needed, and but it takes sacrifice and it takes belief in your guys. No one would have traded Gun Henderson for anything a couple of years ago. Now no one would want to sign him for $400 million, right? So somewhere in between there, they’re not all going to smell good on Monday at 601 when you and I get together, Luke. After Getty Lee, of course. But I don’t feel like anything’s untouchable, or that if they take a piece off the current boat, that’s a major league play: Rodgers, Ruchman, Ward. Go down the list of any of the candidates. Taylor Ward is
Allen McCallum 12:38
infinitely tradable, and they could still get somewhere into the into the wild.
Nestor Aparicio 12:42
And what are you who are you going to be attached to, O’Neill? I’m just saying. How are you really trying to make the playoffs if you’re getting rid of Taylor Ward for a bag of donuts, unless you’re getting a relief pitcher that’s in his way? That’s a fair
8Luke Jones 12:53
question. I think Dylan Beavers would factor into that, where I would think he becomes an everyday player then, and and who knows? Maybe you’re. Maybe there’s another deal you require another outfielder that doesn’t have the same profile, but might have another year or two of pub control. And I hear your point about the lockout, but the worst thing they could do is start trading for a bunch of rentals. I, I, I would. Yeah, I’d rather them stand path and do that. Quite frankly, I’ve
Allen McCallum 13:18
said to you all season when we’ve spoken, that the frustration with the Orioles is that we’re eight years into this rebuild and we still don’t know who so many of Elias’s players are, and yeah, we do.
Nestor Aparicio 13:34
They’ve had at bats. They’ve had plenty of at bats.
Luke Jones 13:37
But in terms of if they’re building anything remotely special, and that’s where I think who’s going to hit. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 13:42
you know what he tells the old man: injuries. Clearly, the old man said injuries in front of you from five feet away on Friday. Okay, so he can
Luke Jones 13:48
say that. I’m not going to say that. Right. So, you know, I mean, that’s what
Nestor Aparicio 13:53
if Heston Kerstadt, if Jordan West, if Adley Rudgman, Heston
8Luke Jones 13:57
Kerstad’s been healthy and playing a triple A two months. They haven’t brought him up. Even they could have gotten him on the roster if they wanted. Well, Henderson looks eminently
Nestor Aparicio 14:06
healthy, right? We’re not. We’re not speculating.
Allen McCallum 14:09
I I believe they talk about players having slow heartbeats. The the guys that you want in the clutch in the moment, whether it’s in the field or at the plate. Gunner Henderson plays like his his gear is stuck in high at every moment. He’s always in fast forward when he’s trying to make a play in the field. When he’s on the bases and he gets picked off because he’s gone too quickly. When he’s at the plate in a big moment, he always looks like he’s ahead of what’s happening. And you need the guys with the quote unquote slow heartbeat in those
Luke Jones 14:41
Ripken, right? Ripken was just you know Eddie Murray,
Allen McCallum 14:44
Eddie Murray, big time
Luke Jones 14:45
might be my favorite example of that. But I, you’ve heard me say this. Alan and I were talking a little bit before the segment, which I know here’s the part where we crushed Gunn Henderson, right? No, no, no, no, no. Just in general about this team. I don’t know if they’re built. Like, what is this? And and part of what? No, but no. I that sounds kind of silly, and sounds like I’m being a little disappointed. Well, they can’t play defense. Let’s start with that. But but I go back to something that you just said, and you know, having baseball reporters who are much better at their craft than what I am, you know, covering the team locally. But is this team getting in at 83 and 79? And okay, maybe they manage to win one game and they lose two out of three in the wild card round. Are they selling any tickets based off of that at this point in time? Eight years into what’s the deal
Nestor Aparicio 15:39
for Scuble on Monday, and they could put that at the front end of the rotation. Okay, but the pitching
8Allen McCallum 15:44
isn’t the problem at this point. I mean, started pitching for what they would have
Nestor Aparicio 15:48
a chance to win an October game if they exclude. That’s where I am. For all I’m at,
Luke Jones 15:52
but are they selling any more tickets if they no one October game? Like four years ago, yes. Yes. Now, and that’s where I look at this thing, even looking through the lens of, and I agree with. I think
Nestor Aparicio 16:03
something that looked like a playoff run on September 13th when the Ravens begin, even if it looks like this, doesn’t feel like a playoff run right now, but it is. Two games off the wild card, it is right
Allen McCallum 16:12
for all the things that that Mike Lass get over the coals about, and for years people have talked talked about the pitching. You look at the starting pitching right now, they have one of the best rotations in the game right now. Is over the last two months, so it’s been there. And you look at their future. I think Bradish is a top of the rotation guy. I think Shane Boss has top the rotation stuff, and he’s we’re waiting for him to mature into it. I think Trevor Rogers. I completely agree that they should not have signed him at the beginning of the season because we needed to see who he was. And by the end of May, you’re going, but you know what? He’s rebounded and looked a heck of a lot more like the guy from 25. That’s
Nestor Aparicio 16:51
great, but what’s he want? So what are you going to pay him? Well,
Allen McCallum 16:53
my point is that he’s put this together in a situation where no one would have expected it, and you give him credit for that. So I
8Nestor Aparicio 17:00
think he’s going to hit the market and get a lot of money. Somebody’s going to give a left hand. You’re going to honestly make a mistake on him, but somebody’s going to pay a deal. Whoever’s
Luke Jones 17:09
the runner-up for Schuber could do a lot worse than Trevor Rogers, who’s going to be a fraction of the cost, but could still be a guy that I think profiles. My point would be
Nestor Aparicio 17:17
if you deal him this week, and again, if you’re listening on Tuesday, they don’t. But the philosophy would be you’re going to get something that’s going to help you this year and next year. But if
Allen McCallum 17:28
but if you’re worried about this year, you don’t trade Trevor Rogers because you’re not going to get him win. You can’t win with one. So I mean, it’s a contradiction in terms. Such an
Luke Jones 17:35
awkward space.
Nestor Aparicio 17:38
But they have to go for it.
Luke Jones 17:41
I guess.
8Nestor Aparicio 17:42
I mean, I guess.
Allen McCallum 17:43
For me, Trey and I. I hear what you’re saying about next year. I hear everything you’re saying. Like, I think you. I think you make, you make every move at the deadline with. I need players that are going to help me beyond the 20. Well, this is where you
Nestor Aparicio 17:57
get into Taylor Ward and into like, if you start dealing Rodgers and Ward, you’re not trying unless you’re replacing it with real big league talent that would be controllable in the next year, right?
Luke Jones 18:08
That’s fair. Rodgers and Ko’s on both of those guys, right? Yeah, I mean, what’s funny about this, and you make a valid point. Look, are they a worse team without Taylor Ward? Yeah, they are in the in the immediate, you know, the now, but at the same time, but if he’s your cleanup hitter, right? He’s not. He’s not hitting for any power. He’s a below average defensive outfielder, and he’s going to hit pre-agency in two months. And he’s at not at an age where you’re interested in. And what are you
Allen McCallum 18:37
getting for him? A double A pitcher. Well, but there got there are teams out there looking for right-handed hitters right now, and he fits that bill anyway. Yeah, and quite frankly, Tyler O’Neill, who’s been awful through much of his Oriole tenure, is at the exact moment where you might be able to move him. Maybe not for a ton, but I mean, getting that contract off the books for next year. Nobody’s taking that.
Luke Jones 19:00
I, I don’t. You’re gonna you’re gonna pay you’re gonna pay unless you’re going to pay a big one for that.
Allen McCallum 19:05
I think if you if you kick in some money for teams that are desperate for a guy who’s hot right now and playing his best base best baseball in two seasons, if you kick in some money, I think you can get.
8Nestor Aparicio 19:17
Oh well, I mean now you’re talking about opportunism. Alan McCallum is here. Luke Jones is here. Baseball, on the bigger picture of what they are, let’s talk about philosophically, and let’s start with the defense. I mean, I’ve I’ve harped on this, Alan. You’ve harped more even than Luke and I have because Luke beat up the batting last year. I beat up the pitching in the off season. You both have done that. You have been adamant about the defense more vociferously, and I don’t have you on as often as Luke, but you were talking about it before it became a pandemic. Quite frankly, like you were talking about it was still in Wuhan, and now it’s nightly and it’s chronic and it’s freaking embarrassing. It’s an embarrassing outfit from that standpoint, and the fact that they can be a wild card is even crazier.
Allen McCallum 20:05
Dylan Beavers and Taylor Ward, and before a month ago, Tyler O’Neill, I would tell you were retrievers. I mean, they just sort of go catch, go after the ball. Does Dylan Beavers have a chance to prove? Yeah, but his instincts off the ball off the bat are not great, and it costs him a lot, particularly in left fielding cammy yards. Gunner Henderson, through the second half of 25, I thought, “Wow, I’m finally seeing him become a shortstop. I see this happening, and all of that progress feels like it’s regressed in 26. He’s he needs to be at third base. He’s if he can’t play third base, I don’t know. But at shortstop, he’s always looks like he’s behind the play, or or moving too quickly. He he never feels like he’s in the right spot. He doesn’t set his feet when he throws. And he’s on so many routine plays. He tries. He looks like he’s doing this nasty thing, and he it messes up. I just look. I’ve seen Cal Ripken. I’ve seen Mark Belanger. Heck, Miguel Tahada was was a pretty. He wasn’t spectacular, but he was a solid. Oh, it was excellent. JJ Hart was excellent. I’ve seen too many average looking players play great shortstop in Baltimore to look at Donna Henderson and say anything, but that guy needs to be a third baseman. Look, it’s too soon for Jackson Holiday. I think on all levels of his game to declare what he’s going to be. Well, they
Nestor Aparicio 21:31
might think he’s a shortstop now. All of a sudden, oh, see, right?
Luke Jones 21:35
I don’t think he’s a shortstop. I want to see him be a decent second baseman. I agree with
Allen McCallum 21:39
you. Yeah,
Luke Jones 21:40
at times, in the same way, Gunnar has stretches where he plays good defense, but it’s so up and down. And you can’t be a stretch
Nestor Aparicio 21:48
guy at short. He’s a
8Luke Jones 21:49
streaky fielder, which you don’t say that about many defensive players. Defense is supposed to be what shows up every day. I mean, it’s what kept Cal Ripken justifying him being in the lineup, even the times where he wasn’t hitting right throughout the streak, but
Allen McCallum 22:05
it’s it’s embarrassing to watch these guys play.
Luke Jones 22:08
Embarrassing, embarrassing,
Allen McCallum 22:09
and
Nestor Aparicio 22:10
the people in charge of it should be embarrassed. If
Allen McCallum 22:12
you, I certainly indicted Hyde about it, but Albernaz is here, and there it’s the same situation. They look unready to play at the major league level defensively. They look fundamentally unsound, and that you certainly have to indict Michaelias and their their institutional belief in defense when assessing that. And if these guys Can’t improve at this point, and again, I think Jackson Holiday is too young. Even even Kobe Mayo. I mean, it’s weird. Kobe Mayo’s problem isn’t his glove; it’s his. It’s the throws more often than not, and and I think that can be improved. So I’m not even
Nestor Aparicio 23:00
Melvin Moore became a much better defensive player at the big league. Leo
8Allen McCallum 23:04
Gomez, I keep, I keep, I keep bringing up the Leo Gomez was a butcher when he came up, and they hit that guy 1000 balls every. Brooks would even work
Luke Jones 23:12
because Brooks was on the broadcast team, and
Allen McCallum 23:15
and Gomez was never going to win a Gold Glove, but he became a a major league decent third baseman for the Baltimore. Everybody loved
Nestor Aparicio 23:23
his bat. Yeah,
Allen McCallum 23:24
yeah, his bat was was serviceable. They thought that’s why he was a
Nestor Aparicio 23:28
third baseman though at the
Allen McCallum 23:29
time. So I mean, I’m not even prepared to completely throw Kobe Mayo out the window, but I mean, I’ve seen I’ve seen enough of Gunnar Short. I
8Nestor Aparicio 23:40
I’ve seen enough of most of this. I think, like literally, I mean, Luke and I getting together every day, and you know, your tragedy and your family, like on a daily basis. I mean, Luke, you said the same thing. This is the most unlikable Oriole team in a long time in a lot of ways. Just in
Luke Jones 23:55
how they play. I mean, I I think the entertainment the entertainment quotient of a baseball team, boy, I can remember over much of my lifetime the Orioles having some teams that were not very good, but they were still solid defensively. Yeah, right, and they would have players that you’d say that’s a good defensive player. I mean, I like watching that guy play. Yeah, yeah, and they just they are unwatchable in that way, in the sense that I said this to you after the comeback on Wednesday, where I was just listening to the fourth, fifth, and sixth inning on my way home from the Ravens, and I was angry, getting frustrated just listening to it. I mean, it was just listening to the defense, let alone watching. Even Blaze Alexander,
Allen McCallum 24:40
even Blaze Alexander, who who has been a much better player, but he was touted as a Gold Glove defensive player at all these positions. I’ve seen him play center field. I wasn’t impressed. He looked better in the corners, and even at third base, where he’s certainly more serviceable than Kobe Mayo right now. I’ve seen him make a lot of wayward errors.
Nestor Aparicio 25:02
I use the stratomatic. Are you a one, a two, or three, or four? You know, Robbie Alomar is a one. You know, Sherman Abanda was a five, but there was no five. They they don’t have any ones. Like you can make a case for Rushman’s played
Allen McCallum 25:15
like a one this year. You can make a case for
Nestor Aparicio 25:18
Alonzo or Ruchman or Kouzer to be plus defensive players, they’re not stalwarts. They’re twos. They’re not one. Like this franchise has fielded five to seven ones, lots and lots and lots of years. Even in the years when they’ve stunk, they’ve urchin’s
Allen McCallum 25:36
doing a podcast right now where they’re going through various things. I think it’s with the Sun, and I’ve seen some of the clips, and he’s talked about Belanger and Robinson, and and after that, Calvert get into how many great left sides in the infield the Orioles have put up. That you know they’ve had arguably three or four of the greatest left side players in the history of the sport. Look, Cowser, I think I told you. I mean, Mark McCain and I had a conversation a couple of months ago before he got hot about how he shouldn’t be a major leaguer, and I told him the only reason he’s in the major leagues is he’s the best defensive outfielder. He’s a Gold Glove caliber corner outfielder, and he’s proven to be a solid center fielder.
8Luke Jones 26:16
Really solid.
Allen McCallum 26:16
But I will say again, if you can sell him as a center fielder who has has unlocked potential, I trade him tomorrow for for anything to to open that space up. And yes, that would ask answer the. You then ask the question: Who’s going to play center field for the Orioles in 26? But Cedric Mullins. But if you can get something for Kowser, I’d do it. But but ultimately, they need to go back to the drawing board about how they bring up their defensive players, and I mean, I don’t know how that happens at this point, but I think it starts with making the decision that Gunner Henderson.
Nestor Aparicio 26:52
I don’t want to be flippant, and Luke and I go at this for hours at a time. I’ll leave it for both of you. Who on this team have you not given up on in your own mind, or lowered your bar on. I’ve already lowered my bar on what Holiday can do, better or worse. Henderson, I don’t, you know that, and Ruchman, both of them have been so in the history of the team so wildly. I’m going to the Hall of Fame, or I’m Chris Davis on his worst day. Sure, like literally, and I’m uncomfortable with that as a modern baseball fan. That that’s just a thing that happens to players because I don’t believe that’s the case at all. But when I look at every one of these players, they are a diminished version of what I believe their potential could be, and therefore I have a diminished expectation of them. Other than maybe Brandon Young, you know, I’ll throw him in, or Ariko Garcia, or Nunez, or some, or a Blaze. It’s guys that don’t matter. Jeremiah Jack, you’re talking about the
Luke Jones 27:52
core guy. Basayo is the one for me. Sam Basayo, and the bat has unreal upside, in my opinion. I have questions about: Is he going to continue to catch? How much will he continue to catch, and how that looks? And that’s fine. I mean, where his best
Nestor Aparicio 28:10
value for the team is now-they pay. I don’t think it’s necessarily
Luke Jones 28:13
for him to abandon catching it entirely, but I’d never-I don’t see him as a guy one that you would want him to, or that he necessarily would be capable to the level of a contending club of being a guy that’s going to catch 130 times a year, and how that will be
Nestor Aparicio 28:28
offensive. But I think
8Luke Jones 28:29
in the way that this kind of how it works right now, he can be the one A to a one. Yes, and then he’s but he and he DHS every other day, spells Pete Alonso at first base 10 times a year. Whatever. I mean, Pete’s going to be getting older, so I don’t know. But I don’t know exactly how that looks. But I love the bet, and he’s 21. And now, same thing could have been said about Gunnar Henderson at that age. Let me see how that’s played out. So you never know. Winnie development is not always a perfect line, you know. Well, you know that’s the case
Nestor Aparicio 29:04
with Holiday, but because you see the potential for him. And I would
Luke Jones 29:07
also say with Holiday. And look, you know, I’ve been I’ve been pretty hard. I
Nestor Aparicio 29:10
called him a little league or two weeks ago when he’s hitting 190.
Luke Jones 29:13
I’m not ready to say that there isn’t another level for him. That said, I’m not seeing the one-one. You don’t think he’s
Nestor Aparicio 29:23
robbing Yale?
Allen McCallum 29:24
Yeah, I
8Nestor Aparicio 29:25
right.
Luke Jones 29:25
I don’t know if I don’t know if he’s going to be a guy that’s going to be a multi-time officer.
Allen McCallum 29:30
He’s still so. He’s still three in
Luke Jones 29:33
December. So,
Allen McCallum 29:34
look, I have heard national professional after national professional professional baseball evaluators say the same thing about so many of these guys, whether it’s Kozler or Mayo or Holliday, that there’s too much talent, that he drafted the right guys, and there’s too much talent in there for it to be this bad for them. Now there’s very little that I’ve seen on the field right now to to justify all of that. Why do we
Nestor Aparicio 30:06
gage how good their coaches are? If we’re judging their coaches on the the outcome, then the coaches need to be fired. I
Allen McCallum 30:11
say that to say
8Nestor Aparicio 30:13
fair enough, right?
Allen McCallum 30:13
I say that to say that we what I’m about to say could be 100% wrong, but I’m I haven’t given up entirely on Jackson Holiday. I think he is starting to do what I think the problem is with all this team because this team can’t hit. We can lay down everything. Defense is its own entity. This team can’t hit. These guys don’t know how to hit. It’s fascinating, and so much of it is about chasing slug and not hitting the ball to all fields, and we are finally watching Jackson Holiday in this hot run do what is missing from so much of the rest of this team’s game: use the field, use the field, and not necessarily look to hit home runs at every point. I’m sorry, whatever you want to say about analytics, the idea that taking the information that’s out there and saying we’re going to use that to hit more home runs, the rarest of contacts in the sport, is ludicrous because what you’ve seen is the Major League Baseball batting average drop precipitously to our 235 to 240 is the Major League average, which is just insane, and and
Nestor Aparicio 31:22
the pitching’s gotten better and more special. People say the pitching’s more specialized. The pitching’s
Allen McCallum 31:26
gotten better, but that’s because the hitting because the hitting is is trying to achieve one thing that’s virtually impossible. But guys
Luke Jones 31:33
are throwing harder than the average fastball velocity, more spin.
Allen McCallum 31:37
Great. You tell me who was a middle.
Luke Jones 31:39
Like I think it’s some of both. I think it’s both of those factors.
8Allen McCallum 31:42
But ultimately, if you ask me, would I rather see a guy like a Jack Morris go have an ERA closer to three and a half, but go eight innings on a regular basis, which impacts you? You’re living in 1978. I understand. I understand that. Oh, I think there’s a
Luke Jones 31:56
reckoning that that baseball needs to arm injuries moving back in that direction a little bit at least.
Allen McCallum 32:01
Arm injuries. You’re going to tell me that that that the kid in Milwaukee isn’t going to walk away with with an arm injury in a year and a half. Mason Miller. I would be so I’d be so afraid to trade for Mason Miller because I think his arm’s going to explode at some point. There, you tell me that that all that all these things are true, absolutely. But I’m going to tell you that more pitching injuries, it’s harder to find pitching because of all these things. All, all of that that chasing perfection impacts everything else around it, and I think that we the reckoning is real. I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 32:34
think they know any other way. Either way,
Allen McCallum 32:36
I yeah. You hear Miz talk about it’s the only way I know how to. I mean, it’s just an orange race
Luke Jones 32:40
at this point. I mean, it really
Allen McCallum 32:42
is. I think to answer your initial question, who do I have faith in? I think it’s, and I can’t believe I’m saying this. I think it’s too early to give up on Kobe Mayo as only a guy who can only hit lefties. But to but to see that come to fruition, you’ve got to suffer through him striking out 80% of the time against right-handers until he figures it out, and how do you chase the postseason when you’re doing right? Right. I think. Do I believe that Gunner Henderson is a 220 hitter? I don’t. And but do I think he’s going to mature at some point to figure out he needs to calm himself down? I don’t know. I think it’s. I think that’s. I think that’s head stuff.
8Nestor Aparicio 33:22
Can they play five games over 500 in August and five games over 500 in September? So I’m looking for
Allen McCallum 33:29
10 games over 16 and
Nestor Aparicio 33:30
1116, and 11, and a 17 and 12. Okay, or whatever that adds up to. Can they do that? And I believe they pitch well enough to do that. I believe if Gunnar Henderson and Jackson Holiday and Ruchman and Basio all come back and are healthy, forget Cowser. I mean, they’ll get a they’ll get a hit from the Encarnacion guy, and Mayo will win a game, and like I’ll hear all of that. But the core part of this that we’ve been waiting on that they’ve banked on is there any chance at all that healthfully Rutchman can come back in a week and a half, and they can keep the pitching? The bullpen can figure it out. They can kick the ball around a little bit, but not as much. And that Henderson can hit 294 the rest of the year. Holiday can hit 281 for two months. They can spice this up. Tyler O’Neill can once they deal Ward on Monday. They you know Tyler O’Neill will step in, hit 238, but hit 12 home runs the next two months. You know what I mean? Like like there is a formula for that that they move from being mediocre lousy to mediocre a little better because the bats because these superstars are supposed to be freaking superstars, dude. Pete Alonso, he’s got friggin’ 30 home runs. I haven’t seen one of them to be honest with you.
Allen McCallum 34:51
He does not have 30 home runs.
Nestor Aparicio 34:53
Whatever he, what’s he got?
Allen McCallum 34:54
He’s got 22, I think. He has 22.
Nestor Aparicio 34:58
Okay, he’s going to hit 37. Home runs, and how many am I going to notice? This is time for him to start hitting someone. I notice
8Allen McCallum 35:04
has come out cold after the break. I say this understanding that Boba Shet is not setting the world on fire in New York right now, but I I told you in the off season I wanted Boba Shet, and they got Peter Lonzo, and I was I was lukewarm about it very much. No pun intended, because I I saw him as a slugger and I thought they needed a hitter, and I believe that Bobachet is is that kind of guy. Again, knowing what he’s doing right now this season, he’s
Luke Jones 35:32
been bad this year.
Allen McCallum 35:32
But I I see Alonzo as a streaky slugger. I I think kind
Luke Jones 35:38
of fits right in, doesn’t he? Yeah,
Allen McCallum 35:40
right. And that’s you know that’s that’s not what they need. They need a guy to solidify the middle of the line after batting. Well, second, we thought
Nestor Aparicio 35:48
Gunner Henderson was that guy. We thought Gunner Henderson was going to be. Let me tell you something
Allen McCallum 35:50
about Gunner Henderson, and I I don’t have the I don’t have the numbers to back this up. Gunner Henderson has been most successful in the leadoff spot when he has not had the pressure of driving runs in on him, and he can just sort of do his thing. But I can’t think of a time when he’s batted third on any regular basis and impressed me as a as a an elite aircraft carrier guy. And he was at his best when when I know that Anthony Santander got hurt in Toronto, and there’s no telling that would have happened in Baltimore. I don’t know, but Santander-they have never replaced Anthony Santander and his presence. And
8Luke Jones 36:30
they were correct not to re-sign him because we-he’s completely broken. They were incorrect to give the money
Nestor Aparicio 36:35
to Tyler O’Neill and think they were going to get right.
Luke Jones 36:37
Those can both be true. Like they were-they were right not to re-sign them, and
Allen McCallum 36:41
I keep hearing people say, “Well, they signed Tyler Neal, his lefties. No, they didn’t. They signed him to replace Santander, and he has not. That-that is not what he’s. Hitting
Luke Jones 36:49
lefties was the headliner for that, but yes, they didn’t sign. He wasn’t signed to that contract to be a platoon.
Allen McCallum 36:55
No, he was
Luke Jones 36:56
not. There was no, no whale.
8Allen McCallum 37:00
I. They need. They can’t jettison all these players. That’s the bottom line. Whether it’s this year or next year, they’re they need to ride some of this out with Holiday, Henderson, Westberg, assuming he comes back in any shape to play. Desio, obviously, and but they need to find a way to bring in players around them who are and Alonzo’s part of that. I think Alonzo is a useful player. Don’t get me wrong, and he’s certainly been a positive force on this team, despite
Nestor Aparicio 37:32
what Dean Kramer
Allen McCallum 37:33
in terms in terms of leadership. And I mean, he’s certainly he’s driven in 6060 plus runs. I mean it’s hard to to exclude that, but they need particular. They need to find guys who play the outfield right now, who are pardon my defensively sound. But he
Nestor Aparicio 37:47
had Eddie Murray.
Allen McCallum 37:48
No, he’s not. No, right. Who are who are defensively sound and and can impact this club. Maybe not its aircraft carriers, but can fill in the blanks in the middle of that lineup to drive and runs and be productive players, where they just don’t have that guy right now. Basayo, I think, can mature into that, and I think Holiday can, at his best, be a guy who hits from the top of the lineup, batting at second, maybe who helps drive the action for those guys to drive him in. I would like I’d like to see that that potential come to fruition, but they’ve got glaring holes right now in terms of how this team is going to work best, and I think they need to fill them essentially in the outfield spots, and that’s probably going to come from center field and and one of the corner spots. If you believe that Dylan Beavers is a guy that you can that can be part of the the solution, and from an offensive standpoint, I think he can grow into a productive major league baseball player, and we’ll see what happens.
Luke Jones 38:47
I agree with so much of what you said, but I also keep coming back to they’ve got to rebate.
Allen McCallum 38:52
Sure,
8Luke Jones 38:52
they’ve got to trade a couple members of the young. Yeah, and you know what? It might be a situation where you might get inferior value from that guy, maybe figuring it out somewhere else, but you can’t be afraid of that anymore. I think that’s something that, if you recall, Nestor over the winter, and I didn’t even have a specific. You mean the
Nestor Aparicio 39:10
off season? You mean this week?
Luke Jones 39:12
In the off season. Well, the off season is
Nestor Aparicio 39:13
going to. I keep going back to the beginning. I know,
Luke Jones 39:15
but but they are going to play baseball again at some point. I agree with that. So
Nestor Aparicio 39:19
I’m just wondering where their reduction is between now and next week, in whatever way, to say I don’t think these guys are expendable. I’d be
Luke Jones 39:27
shocked if they’re going to trade Adley Lunchman because he’s hurt.
8Allen McCallum 39:31
Let’s start first off. He’s
Luke Jones 39:32
hurt. Second of all, I mean Michaelias might as well just handed his key, hard key for the warehouse, you know what I mean? Like you blew it, and and you know I’m I’m being a little facetious saying that, but not entirely, because just how that will look, right? How how a certain
Nestor Aparicio 39:52
you know it look worse trying to give them 120 million dollars? Yeah, and this is
Luke Jones 39:55
part like I’m getting off. This is going to be my other point with with what Alan just had to say, and as we’re talking. We’re going round and round talking about all these different guys. I mean, Rutchman, good, bad, or indifferent, is a year away from hitting Cleveland. Gunnar Henderson’s two years away, and Scott Boris is his agent. He’s not signing a contract extension for anything close to what you even think he might be worth right now. Which Gunner’s like he’s not the worst player in the league. Let’s be clear, you know, he’s closer to the worst than the best. Well, but he’s a league average player right now, and that’s obviously not. He’s
Nestor Aparicio 40:26
completely unsignable long time term today. Today, I mean, he’s completely
Luke Jones 40:31
unsignable. Yeah, he’s not going to get. If he wanted to, you know, if he wanted to offer that makes him unsignable, he
Nestor Aparicio 40:37
wouldn’t take the deal off.
8Luke Jones 40:38
Right, he was unsignable before. I mean, you could offer to me. He’s double unsignable because
Nestor Aparicio 40:44
of his value being weird now. That’s all. So,
Luke Jones 40:48
but the point is, everything you just said, even they’re in just such an awkward space at this point in time because the clock is ticking on the first couple guys that were supposed to be the faces of this were the faces of this for a time, and and we got the second half of 22 and 23 and the first half of 24. Fool’s goal, but I mean I don’t know if it’s fool’s goal, but it was like it just we believed what our eyes told
Nestor Aparicio 41:15
us. All three of these guys looked at this with 150 years of baseball under them and looked at it two years ago and said, “Oh my God, Henderson’s going to the hall with something. Holidays behind him. Rushman’s good. They they took two out of three from the Phillies. They were blowing through the through the baseball world, and they were the arguably the Carmen Burns was their
Allen McCallum 41:35
one. Every time I’m on with you, I say I say of Michael Iss, I blame blame them for Adley Russman and Derek Crochet not being here. Let me tell you what I mean by that. By that with Adley Rushman, I understand that everybody in the sport would have said that Adley Rushman was the the bona fide number one guy. Okay, here’s why I would never take this. I believed it then, and I believe it now. Here’s why I’d never take a catcher number one. Number one, he could be the best player in the sport, and it takes one hit at the plate to end all of it. It’s happened too many times for not to. There’s the the Buster Posey rule is out there to keep that from happening to the great catchers, and when you’re a catcher, the percentage of that hap the chance of that happening the percentage is much greater. Number two, your lifespan as a catcher is so much a running
Nestor Aparicio 42:24
back, and baseball. The body gets
Allen McCallum 42:26
beat up, so even if you are, even if you do live up to that, your your your window is so much shorter. You can’t build around that guy. And if your offense is, people keep saying, “Oh well, he’s at some point he’ll have to shift to first base. Why on earth would I play him at first base? His number has a
8Luke Jones 42:42
profile adjustable. Not
Allen McCallum 42:43
even a little bit. And the the third thing is that you can’t play a catcher every day. You just can’t. Not if you want to. Don’t
Nestor Aparicio 42:50
tell Buck that.
Allen McCallum 42:51
Not if you want to. Right.
Luke Jones 42:53
Came close to that.
Allen McCallum 42:54
That’s why it makes no sense to build your lineup around a catcher because if you want to preserve him at all, you you just can’t. So I mean, just that doesn’t even ask Joe
Nestor Aparicio 43:06
Mauer.
8Allen McCallum 43:07
That doesn’t even ask the question. Does he live up to the one one billing? There are too many obstacles to get what you put into that that draft spot to to expect that that’s going to happen. That’s why I would never have drafted a catcher at number one one. And as Luke said over there at the table, we have Matt Weiders and Ali Ruchman as experience that we that hopefully I would never draft
Luke Jones 43:32
a catcher inside the top 10 again. In defense of Michaelia’s for that, yes, group think consent all of that, but you are talking about someone who had come in after the team had just set a franchise record for losses in a year. They actually were trying to contend. Sure. So it was new regime. Fan base was what’s going to happen. Like all that. He needed a shortening.
Luke Jones 43:56
He needed a higher floor, right? And three all-star pictures. You can make. And let’s also let’s also acknowledge Adley Ruchman as college baseball players go was as high tier no
Nestor Aparicio 44:09
question
Luke Jones 44:09
known commodity known in in the mainstream sports space which you never say that about college baseball players I mean maybe there’s one every two or three years he was that for a couple years. You can throw
Allen McCallum 44:22
behind the plate the second baseball. So there was
Luke Jones 44:23
that, and from the day he was drafted, from a branding standpoint, even though he was a few years away from the majors at that point, he was the guy base of the franchise. So I understand that, but for all the reasons you just said, which I agree with that, yeah, they made the wrong choice, obviously. But any high school player, including some of the greatest high school players of all time, they’re younger, and yes, that means more upside. But it also means a much lower floor in terms of this could also they could get hurt. Yep, you could realize they can’t hit professional pitching, even at the double A. Level, let alone the majors. So there are so many of those guys, even drafted very early, don’t even make it to the major leagues. Let alone become a good major league ball player. So I understand. Yeah, I understand both sides of that big time. And again, I I give him more grace for that specific move. But
8Nestor Aparicio 45:20
at the end of the day,
Luke Jones 45:21
yeah. When you eight years later, when
Allen McCallum 45:23
you’re building a young pitching staff, for me, I would value a veteran catcher to help lead that kind of team. Anyway, and I’m not taking away. At least been fine behind the plate, and it’s been exceptional this year in particular. But but I would have liked a veteran catcher to be behind the plate as that team, as the Bradishes and the you know formerly Grace Rodriguez, those kind of guys were were being developed. Whatever, but it’s Adley Brunchman’s not untouchable for me. I guess that’s that’s where. Oh, who
Luke Jones 45:56
is right? Sam Basayo. You’re not trading Basayo. You’re not trading Bradish, you’re not trading Voz. You know, I. But but as as always, a case of sliding scale. I mean, like the threshold for trading Adley Ruchman. If you don’t do it in the next several days, then I mean, what are you doing this winter? I mean, are you just gonna? In
Allen McCallum 46:17
2024, I was traded Jackson Holiday for two recerts. In a heartbeat, in a heartbeat, to get them to over the hump in that season. And now Jackson Holiday, I would say, while I wouldn’t use the term untouchable, is less touchable for me than he was at that.
Nestor Aparicio 46:34
We really put a lot of value in these one-on-ones, right? And and and part of it is part of it is you have to suck for a year, and the fans live with that. And you know, Buster only came on, and he’s persona non grind. Apparently, the Oriole fans hate him and hate him for a long time. They hate anybody that speaks truth. And he’s, you know, he talked about them rebuilding trust with the community. At least Buster understood that in a way. 30 years into this, but in a general sense, this has been a a busted promise to the fan base that if we tank, and Evan Drellick talked about that. Of course, he wrote the Astros book. I had him on this week. I mean, I’ve had great, great top of class baseball conversation here this week. But part of this is even from the outside to your point. All the national people love these guys, and it was a great idea. We got Mike Elias. We’re going to stink, and then we’re going to be good. And then what happens when you you aren’t eight years later, and the three of us are still here chronically? It is. They have a real mess. They they have a. This is an ownership crisis. And let
Allen McCallum 47:35
let me say something that I’ve been I’ve been hesitant to say on the air. They have put a lot of Caucasian players on the field in a in a black a city that is fairly of color, and I think for a lot of people in this town, it’s harder to connect with them, particularly at a point when they when these guys aren’t performing, and you you’re looking around for other players to to represent, and I think that I think there’s some there’s something to be said about that.
8Luke Jones 48:05
That’s fair. That’s fair. You just and
Nestor Aparicio 48:08
they’re lacking Venezuelan and black journalist leadership in the clubhouse. Oh, and yeah. So the
Luke Jones 48:14
point, the bigger point, Alan. The fact
Nestor Aparicio 48:16
that we love the team and want to cover it’s insane. It’s one thing to talk about them
Luke Jones 48:19
booking a certain. They’re not winning. They’re not winning. They’re not very good. You know, they they could be they could all be blue and if like the blue Brian Roberts bobblehead or whatever, right? Whatever won. I love this club, but and there’s nothing on earth. There’s nobody.
Allen McCallum 48:35
Jeff Robinson is the only Oriole I can think of at this moment who I just actively wanted to fail. Hated that guy. It’s
Nestor Aparicio 48:48
40 years ago. I’m gonna get over
8Allen McCallum 48:49
it. I’m and I have, but
Nestor Aparicio 48:52
childhood. Well, child,
Allen McCallum 48:53
it wasn’t. It wasn’t 40 years ago. My my point. I guess what I’m trying to say is, there’s nobody on this team that I wouldn’t want to see succeed, nobody. And but I’ve I’ve covered enough, watched enough, seen enough, and have an informed opinion enough to look at it and say, when you look at a puzzle and you see all the pieces spread out and you’re trying to put it together, there comes a point when you know there are pieces missing here.
Luke Jones 49:22
Yeah,
Allen McCallum 49:22
these there are things that don’t fit here. Something got mixed up. A couple of
Luke Jones 49:27
duplicates that were thrown in the box. You know what I mean? Yeah,
Allen McCallum 49:29
and and there’s not a spot for it. And there are pieces about this team that just don’t fit into a winning formula. And Michaelias, who, as I like to say, falls in love with his toys a little too much, has to be willing to look himself in the mirror and and acknowledge that and figure out a way to to make. I think his
8Luke Jones 49:48
level of arrogance is on display for everybody. But two things, finish it up for me. Take it home. Two things, and you alluded to this, and I was it was going to be my drop the mic moment. Isn’t worth it. It isn’t worth it because honestly, if you can scout, you can develop. You will you will find players over the course of the draft, whether you’re picking first, fifth, or 28th. Yep, throughout the draft. So there’s that, and I think you’ve seen. Look, some of the players they’ve actually picked. Go look at the top 10 in those in those specific drafts. There’s not a whole lot to write home about that was drafted around them either. So that even further emphasizes my point that I don’t think tanking to the extent that they or some other teams have. Look, I’m not saying the Orioles should have tried to win in 2019, but there are extremes of going about it that there are ways to field at least a mildly entertaining, more competitive club that is not like the Reds. That is not, but that is not going to compromise long-term goals to do that. Cleveland camp of Milwaukee. How did you know? They find a way as they lose players. They just continue to to to win. Yeah, and and then the other factor that I think, and this should be ownership in the business side and the marketing side of any team. It’s too much too soon to make Adley Rutschman when you draft him, and even he, who was a college World Series performer, Golden Spikes, all that. When you make those, when you anoint those guys right away, I think you’re setting up.
Nestor Aparicio 51:33
David Clyde. There is, there
Luke Jones 51:35
is absolutely, and I’m not excusing those guys. Mind
Nestor Aparicio 51:38
Brian Taylor. Brian Taylor. But
Luke Jones 51:40
there is absolutely an argument to be made. Ben
Nestor Aparicio 51:43
McDonald, when he was supposed to be from a
Luke Jones 51:45
mental side, when you were when you were anointed the Savior, boy, that crown is really heavy. And if you struggle, and you you you remember me saying second half of 24, I said at the time, I believed at that point in time those guys were going to be better in the long run for having gone through some scuffles. Two years later, that didn’t happen. Well, Matt Weiners was going to save this thing 17 years. So you know the idea of Colton Cowser. You know you had the cow pasture sections. Like it sounds cute. It sounds great. But you’re the hitching. But
8Allen McCallum 52:16
you look around. You look at the team they put around Matt Weiders and Nick Marques and Adam Jones, and they brought in JJ Hardy, who was the most stabilizing player you could imagine, and
Luke Jones 52:28
and even they took a year or two to to really get going. So maybe and maybe that’s and it took buck too. And maybe that’s maybe that’s a six. And
Allen McCallum 52:36
Albernaz is a whole other discussion. Yeah. Oh my god! Thumbs down. I’m low. I’m hesitant to say that a thumbs down on a guy who’s who’s got his training wheels on. But of the of the young managers I have watched begin their tenure, he he impresses me less than a lot. Agree. I
Nestor Aparicio 52:57
agree a whole lot. I’ll say that. Luke Allen, my dudes. Time for crab cakes. It is the Maryland Crab Cake Tortoise, all presented by our friends at the Maryland Lottery. I have number 36. That’s my lucky number, by the way. Raven scratch offs available now. Second chances. Make sure you’re doing all that. John Martin and I got together and talked about. We’ll be Koco’s in the 26th of the month. Getting back to State Fair. Getting back to Fishmonger’s daughters working at dates. Imagine this. All my tired, hardworking restaurant friends are on vacation this week, including Koco’s next week. So don’t go looking for. You need crab cake, Commander Costas, because Koco’s is shut down next week. But we’ll be there on the 26th as we take care of all of our local sponsors. We love them all because they’re Greek and they keep me fat, which doesn’t help me with my GBMC people because they’re going to give me my let my booty grow over here. But I had a fried crab cake today. I’m proud of that. You know,
Luke Jones 53:43
sounds good to me. Costas, why wouldn’t you?
Nestor Aparicio 53:45
I had I had real crabs from Costas on Sunday. So one time this year I went after them. I’ll get some more. I was telling people I don’t I don’t eat crabs because I’ve learned how to play the guitar. That’s a lie. If I cut my fingers in it, pitchers and guitar players are afraid of crabs. Are you playing? No, I’m not playing.
Allen McCallum 54:01
Okay,
8Nestor Aparicio 54:02
I’m playing with my AI.
Allen McCallum 54:04
No,
Nestor Aparicio 54:07
what? I got
Allen McCallum 54:08
a podcast for you. You should listen to.
Nestor Aparicio 54:10
What’s it called?
Allen McCallum 54:11
Diary of a CEO.
Nestor Aparicio 54:13
Is it mine? It
8Luke Jones 54:14
is called
Nestor Aparicio 54:15
Baltimore Posi.
Allen McCallum 54:15
It’s not, but but yours you should listen to as
Nestor Aparicio 54:18
well. Diary of a struggling, tired, tired of losing baseball CEO ultimately. Luke Jones is here. He will be out at training camp next week. You having fun out there?
Luke Jones 54:28
I am. The weather’s been great, which I know it’s going to be 95 degrees yourself. Yeah, this is the equivalent of being in the press box and saying, “Man, this game’s going really fast, which is a cardinal sin to a look at the rain delay. Look at him tie the
Nestor Aparicio 54:44
game when it’s seven nothing. My thanks to Pete and everybody out here at Costas. Patrick Dyer was on earlier as well, and we’ve had great guests here all along. Zach Dermer, whose family at Farnard Dermer keeps us in business. Luke sometimes wears the shirt, and sometimes he doesn’t wear the shirt. It’s okay either way. We love it. I am Nestor signing off from Costas and Timonium. If you want crabs, go to Dundalk. If you want the OTB, come here to Timonium. We are WNSD AM 1570 Tasks, Baltimore, and we never stop talking. Baltimore, positive.
