Are you as disgusted by the Orioles as we are?

The losing. The lack of accountability. The runners left on base. Last place. The empty stadium. All of it stinks. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss their mutual disgust with Orioles leadership and performance on field.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed their frustration with the Baltimore Orioles’ leadership and performance. They highlighted the team’s recent struggles, including a three-game winning streak and a 1-14 record with runners in scoring position. They criticized the management’s decisions, such as playing Jorge Mateo in center field and the lack of veteran depth. They also noted the impact of injuries to key players like Adley Rutschman and Cedric Mullins. Despite some positive performances from Ryan O’Hearn and Jackson Holliday, the team remains in last place, leading to questions about the future direction and leadership.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles leadership, performance issues, Brandon Hyde, Jorge Mateo, Adley Rutschman, Cedric Mullins, bullpen struggles, Ryan O’Hearn, Mike Elias, ownership, fan frustration, roster health, Tony Mancini, Baltimore positive.

SPEAKERS

8

Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W N S T. Am 1570 task of Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. All of our W n s t programming brought to you by our friends at curio wellness, as well as our friends at Liberty, pure solutions. And we’re putting the Maryland crab cake tour back out on the road. I have the Back to the Future scratch also. We will have these next week. We’re going to be at Green mount station in Hampstead. I am arriving with some Carroll County guests next week. So I’m looking forward to that. That’s going to be on the fifth, that is Thursday. I erroneously said Wednesday. I will be there Thursday the fifth, and then on the 13th, which is up Friday the 13th, the Orioles will be hosting the very scary California Angels of Anaheim makes me think of all the movies made back in the 1980s maybe they can wear some throwbacks. Speaking of throwbacks, I had Todd rate him on the program this week, discussing the orange pumpkins, discussing the Red Sox Fenway wall, whatever that was the other day, that vomit that they’re wearing. Luke Jones is here. He is our fashionista, the purveyor of all fashion. Tweets here, the fashion of the St Louis Cardinals always in fashion, by the way, the usual Brock ward. It’s good enough for me. Gibby the whole deal. But the National League in town and I like talking about the three game winning streak better than I like talking about sitting over a dozen delicious crabs at Costas and having the last three of them wrecked with my son and and his wife watching, you know, a meltdown my boys, Johnny Raff and Mark Miller, they were there. We had some crabs, some crab cakes. We were eating Greek salad, doing it all. They left and the Orioles were winning. The Orioles did not win on Tuesday night. Oh,

Luke Jones  01:44

first of all, nothing’s going to wreck crabs at Costas. So, so I’ll disagree with you on that part of it, but yeah, as you’re watching the Orioles, I mean, one I’m in agreement with you, it was much more enjoyable talking about a three game winning streak that I don’t think anyone with the proper mindset had any designs that everything was fixed, but you know, you’re certainly hoping that this team can play better for an extended stretch at some point in time. That doesn’t mean it’s going to save their season, but I think you also acknowledge something that we did touch upon that look at the lineup. I mean, they had Chadwick Trump at catcher. They had Jorge Mateo in center field, Dylan Carlson in left field, Heston kerstad in right field. We saw that defense very much killed them in the in the top of the eighth inning, when St Louis went ahead and and made the you know, the result all but complete. And you know, you you have a team that had swung the bats a little bit better despite some of their health issues, that they’re still continuing to go through Adley rutschman, not in concussion protocol, like not on the injured list, but they’ve given him a couple days just to be careful. And Cedric Mullen banged up a little bit. They went one for 14 with runners in scoring

Nestor Aparicio  03:01

positions, so one for 14 with runners in scoring position. Yeah. So what was interesting, can I take a cheap shot? Because, like, I had crab. I mean, I was Johnny Raff left me with, like, nine crap. I ate more crabs on Tuesday, in a big crabs than I’ve he ordered them. He didn’t want to eat them. And then next thing you know, I’m eating them, and it’s the seventh inning and and my my my wife’s out of town, so I’m with my son. I’m with my daughter in law. And they’re like, they don’t watch the Orioles at all, like they had never seen the squirt zone. I’m I’m not being I’m not I’m being serious, like they watch that. And my daughter’s like, That looks fun. It looks a little cold tonight. And I’m like, and they’re like, No, we cut our cord three years ago. We do not. We don’t know anything about the aura. My son, Aparicio, knows nothing about the Orioles until last night. So I’m just, I’m being really honest with you. I’m shocked by it. It’s not any he’s not being anti or he’s just like on the other things in his life. He’s not on Facebook either. She’s a little different. But I got a cheap shot in and no one was there to hear it, and my hands were messy and almost said, Hey, dude, reach for my phone. Tweet this out for me, because when Mateo misplayed the ball out in center field, I wanted to say that Brandon hikes not the manager anymore. You can’t blame that on him, you know what I mean. So to the lineup point and to Mateo in center field, all the things that Brandon high got fired for 10 days ago, and people were asking me at the pool in Vegas, what do you think? What you know, it’s typical baseball scapegoating. It is what it is, you know, you have to fire the manager. And that’s the way that neophyte owner would feel about it. That’s what the general manager is going to do to save his job, and meanwhile, the things that embarrass the manager to get him fired. What are you doing playing Mateo in center field? I I mean, that’s the part of this for the people that are asleep, or when it was three to nothing, or when it was four to three, or when. Pissed the lead away, or when I looked up and all of a sudden the game’s out of hand, they can’t win. That there is a point where, like, this isn’t the team we were promised back in February. This is, this is, this is a mess. It really is on a night by night basis, and it takes all nine innings to get to the mess. Chicano giving up a couple early. I’m like, don’t let him be the guy. Let least let him be the good pitcher. And every night they find it’s like the anti Oriole magic. Every night they find a different way to lose, yeah, well, it’s

8

Luke Jones  05:29

like I said. I mean, they, this team hasn’t exhibited any redeeming qualities. They don’t do anything well, like, there’s isn’t one phase of the game where you say, Okay, well, they’re, they’re bad overall. But, you know, you could say that about a couple of individuals. I mean, Ryan O’Hearn hits a three run homer, right? I mean, continues this year where, I mean, he’s batting 340 he’s been terrific.

Nestor Aparicio  05:50

He might get Santander money.

Luke Jones  05:53

Um, I’d probably not position. And for one thing, it doesn’t help that. Look at Santander in Toronto in year one. You know, for as much as we’ve talked about Tyler O’Neill and how

Nestor Aparicio  06:05

8

people the last week make the case they should have kept Santander. I’m like, You’re not, have you seen his numbers? Yeah, you’re not paying attention. You’re not

Luke Jones  06:11

watching well. And you never know, right? I mean, obviously environment and all that, but, but I want to go back to what you said for a moment about Sugano. I mean, this game did not start out well, I mean, St Louis squared up a number of balls against him. I mean, what that first sitting, he gives up four hits and manages to only give up one run. And these were not bloops. They were hit hard. So the first couple innings, you’re thinking, Oh, is this going to be an early exit for him? Well,

Nestor Aparicio  06:37

I’m shocked. They played like I watched rained all afternoon. I had friends with my friends and my family at Costas. I was meeting them at 630 for the game, like I’ve made the plans around the game, literally, with old friends of mine. We like baseball like I might my old roommate, but some of my dearest friends in the whole world, you know. And we made a plan to go to Costas and watch the game. And I got a little bit of a late start. It was raining. It rained the whole way over from Towson, the Dundalk. And I walked in and they were playing, and they were losing already, because I walked in at like, 645 and I’m like, I can’t believe I was listening to I was actually listening to us on the radio, Sierra. I like my new microphone. It sounds good. And I’m shocked, they played and it was like raining, and they were behind quickly, and it was and it was nobody there, and I’m like, oh, man, you know, like, how’s this gonna go? And then it got, like, fun. People at the bar were cheering, and O’Hearn, and, you know, like, it kind of was a fun game, until they pissed it away. Yeah, I

Luke Jones  07:41

mean, like I said, I mean, Sagano was able to write the ship enough that he pitched into the sixth inning. I mean, it certainly wasn’t his best start. But when you looked at how the first couple of winnings went, You’re wondering if he was going to make it the second time through the order, and whether the game is going to be out of hand. So, you know, when you’re trailing three, nothing early like that. I mean, you don’t know, but he stabilized enough, like I said, Brian o’hern hits the big three run homer in the fifth inning. And you’re thinking, hey, you know this is, this is looking okay. I mean, we’ll see what happens with the bullpen. And you know, it started out all right with the pen, but, you know, they’ve pitched a lot. We know that. You know, not everyone in that bullpen has been effective. Guys have had their moments. And Baker

8

Nestor Aparicio  08:21

reverted back to, you know, yeah, 2023 Brian Baker,

Luke Jones  08:25

right, yeah, and, but as we also pointed out, the defense didn’t help them out either. And, and you mentioned, I mean, it was a rainy night. I can’t say I was shocked that they played, mainly because, one you look at Wednesday’s forecast, yeah, they’re not going to wind up playing away. And even though they have a mutual off day. On Thursday, you’re always, I mean, this team’s already played a few double headers, you know, you’re trying to avoid that. So I think the key was they got enough of a window that the grounds crew was able to get the field ready, and then they got started. It never poured. I mean, it was a light to at times, maybe semi moderate rain, but for the most part, it was a lighter rain, and they just played through. But that makes for difficult conditions. And then when you talk about Jorge Mateo and center it’s not a center fielder, Heston kerstad, who you could probably put up with his defense if he were hitting like if he was a power hitting corner outfielder, in the vein of Anthony Santander, yeah, someone like him, or even someone worse, you know, like you think of like the likes of Albert Bell and guys like that, that. Hey, they’re not going to play well defensively, but you’ll take their bat. Problem is curse dad’s hitting under 200 so, but I mean, Baker gives up the home run, those those two plays, I mean, the ball and right center. I mean, I thought cursed at or Mateo could have caught it, then the one in center field. Yeah, that was, that was a tough play. Just didn’t look like a center fielder, right?

Nestor Aparicio  09:52

That is a an organizational issue that when Mateos out there and the ball goes over, said, for what? I mean, I. It would have been, it would have been a great play. Al Bucha would have made that play. You mean, like, Deborah would have made that play. Mullins helping Mullins makes that play. Probably, yeah, just like, but that being said, he’s not a center fielder, and they haven’t played center field, yeah, and that’s not Brandon heights fault. And I remember that night, the idiots in the fan base that want to blame the manager or this, or like, I the square blame on this needs to be on ownership, because ownership is ownership, and ownership is new, and ownership is out in front of this, except when they’re in last place, which tells me all I need to know about Mr. Rubenstein. Sure, like I’m just I, I am heartbroken that a putz has bought the team and has surrounded himself with whatever I have been subjected to over the last 14 months. I’m just, I am just in my private moments, Luke, I am having real problems with whatever this is and wherever this is going, and whatever my my role, your role, our role is in coming your every effing day and bitching about it, because I did that for 30 years, and it it wore me out, man, and it’s wearing me out again this early in to think that we’re waiting on Justin Tucker news out of Owings Mills in the rain and Four months we’re going to wait for for football, and you have September 7, buffalo, September 7, dude. It’s may still May. Like we’re supposed to have a baseball season here. Where’s Cal Ripken in front of this? Where’s Rubenstein, where all of them Kurt smoke, all of them, they were in front of it last year. Now the team’s in last place. Mateo is out in the rain. Miss playing balls. Their, their right fielder stinks, their their power hitting first, but their next, Dave Kingman can’t even get, they can’t even get here to get it bats. I mean, they’re, they’re throwing 41 year old pitchers out, and they’re 20 games under 500 I mean, Peter Angelos wouldn’t be proud of this. I mean, like I that’s where I am, I am, I am. I’m fed up, and I’m grossly annoyed sitting at Costas with my family, watching the remnants of what was left of what used to be great as we bury Jim Henneman on Thursday, I got Rick Vaughn on, I got Charles Steinberg on. All the old timers are coming on and finding this mess again, and the new owner, who hasn’t even shown up on the scene to respond to it, and I’m and the general manager hiding I was

Luke Jones  12:36

8

gonna say, I mean, I think this stinks, and I think you’re letting my off the hook a little bit in your wording. I mean, look, it’s obviously ownership. We’re going to see what this is going to look like here in the coming weeks and months and years. I’m getting pissed

Nestor Aparicio  12:51

off. I mean, my buddies, Birdland people two grand to go down there. And every time I try to use the tickets, the tickets are like, expensive. There’s no discount. There’s once you give them the money, the tickets are 28 bucks to sit on the roof when the Cardinals are in town in the rain on a Tuesday night. And it’s just, it’s bad business. Katie, not shaking my hands, bad business as well. But I’m a bad guy. They’re broadcaster terrible. It’s just it, dude, it’s not even June, and I’m, I’m just very, very frustrated, and I want everybody to know it. I want to I because I’ve been nice, I’ve been, you’ve been the prick around here lately. Baseball, baseball, baseball. We need to win games. We need we need to. We need to hit better. We need to have better pitchers. Need to spend more money, all of that. How about just show up. How about show up? That’s all, all of you, all of you, all of you who I don’t know, who are too good to meet with me. It’s just gross. I just want to say that as they mire in last place after Memorial Day and watching them botch games and no one cares anymore, like people starting to really tune out because they’re pissed off, like I am. I’d rather talk about anything else. I mean, we have a felon running the country. I have other things to do. I By the way, I ran into our congressman on Tuesday night as well, and he’s frustrated as well. But So there’s other things going on, and this baseball team as a daily concern for you and me to get together every day and do a half an hour an hour, whatever they’re doing over the fan, whatever hot air they’re blowing over at 98 rock and Bal. Nobody had a plan for this. No, nobody had a plan for this. And I just I haven’t been mad yet, and I’m pissed. I’m pissed 20 years after doing free the birds, this is the best they can do. It’s gross.

Luke Jones  14:50

I will continue to say, you’re you’re not burying Mike Elias nearly enough because he’s he’s been running the show. Now I agree with all your points about ownership, but I have. Russia mailed him lately, but, but ownership also, you know, thought they were inheriting something that, at least from a baseball standpoint, was in good shape, and apparently not. We’ll get out. I’ll say this, your customers, that’s and I’ll say, and I’ll say this, maybe

Nestor Aparicio  15:13

more Latino nights where I’m banned.

8

Luke Jones  15:17

I’ll seriously, I’ll say this, Tuesday night’s game, individually speaking, you look at the lineup, this team is still very much trying to point itself in the right direction. Health wise, Jordan Westberg and Colton cows were supposed to play at Norfolk on Tuesday night. It was rained out. As I mentioned, Adley rutschman, who is not on the concussion list as of now, it looks like he’s going to avoid that, but they’ve tried to give him a couple days. Cedric Mullins, they’re very vague about it. Tony mancellina won’t say what it is, just like Brandon Hyde won’t. It’s becoming more NFL like, But Cedric Mullins is banged up. He’s missed three of the last four games. So that’s also, in addition to like I mentioned, cows are Westberg, Ramon, Laureano, Tyler O’Neill, Gary Sanchez. Go down the list. I mean, as far as their position player talent, the 14, you know, the 13 guys that they were supposed to have on their 26 man roster, terms of position players, half those guys were on the shelf right now, and the ones who are healthy, other than, other than Ryan O’Hearn, aren’t really playing all that well. And Jackson holiday, I’d be remiss if I didn’t at least give holiday a nod that he’s the one young guy they have where the arrows trending upward. But you know, if you looked at it through that lens and didn’t take into account everything else. You’d look at this as one of those games where you say, you know, if they were 500 let’s say, you know, if things hadn’t completely fallen apart, and we talked about if they had been able to tread water over the first two months, a loss like Tuesdays, you’d say, it stinks, but you kind of understand it, right? You see, you have a couple guys out of position. You’ve got a short bench, yada yada yada, but they they’re not in any kind of a position where you can afford to to drop games that are winnable games. I mean, that’s how they got into this position. Yeah, they’ve had their games where they’ve been blown out, but they’ve also lost close games. They’ve also completely given away some games where they had a chance to win, and it’s incredibly frustrating, but it’s where they are right now. And your point about people tuning out the product? I mean, I can’t blame anyone. I’m not going to sit here just because I’m paid to cover baseball, to sit here and try to sell you on this team. It stinks. It. I do think it’s going to get better in the sense that you’re going to get some of those guys back, and the roster is going to look better on paper, hence, I would expect it’s going to be better than it’s been. That doesn’t mean saving the season. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be good. And from that standpoint, you’re kind of back in into the the rebuild mindset in terms of how you view it through the lens of, okay, can you get these guys back on track? Can, can Gunnar Henderson look like gunner Henderson the rest of the year? Can Adley rutschman look like Adley rutschman For the first time in a year? Go down the list. You know, Westberg needs to stay healthy. Cows are needs to stay healthy. Holiday needs to continue to do what he’s doing. You’re hoping Coby Mayo is going to get back here at some point and get an opportunity and actually take advantage of it. Heston kerstad has been so bad the last few weeks, where

Nestor Aparicio  18:32

the casino major league player, dude. I mean, he’s not right now. I mean, let’s not not right now, right, right. Nikki, that’s the key. And look, we don’t know, and they’re going to have a lot of that. Jorge Mateo is not a major league center fielder. I mean, Jorge Mateo like, I mean, they’re continuing, but there’s

Luke Jones  18:48

a perfect I want to stop you just for a second. There’s a perfect example of legitimate beefs with Mike Elias. Why is Jorge Mateo still on this roster? And and if I hear someone say, well, they needed on the play center field full Go, go. Get an actual someone who can actually play center field, because this isn’t a case where you’re fitting a square peg into a round hole. From an idea of, like I said, talking about the curse that example, it’s one thing to put someone in the outfield, because you’re just trying to get their bat in the order. Ryan o’hearns, a great example of that. We saw Ryan o’hern Playing left field at Fenway Park. We see him play right field more and more frequently here over the last few weeks. It’s not because he’s a good right fielder. He’d be the first to tell you he’s not. But the reason why is you really want his bat in the order and he can play it just well enough, or maybe it’s not horrendously terrible, where you can put up with it, because he’s going to contribute with the bat. In the case of Jorge Mateo, you’re putting him out in center field and he can’t hit, and okay, if he does get on base and he did a pitch

Nestor Aparicio  19:53

8

runner in October.

19:55

I mean that that

Nestor Aparicio  19:56

was sort of the argument. The argument was, well, you’ll need him. In August and September to pinch run and a tight game and

Luke Jones  20:02

well, the the argument previously was, you do need a backup shortstop, but you’ve got Jackson holiday on this roster now, if gunner Henderson needs a day, I mean, like, what are we doing here and maybe, maybe right now on March, 27 and 28th or May, sorry, May, 27 and 28th but because they’re roster shorthanded, even their active roster shorthanded, you know, I’m not saying today is the day, but what are we doing here? I mean, it’s been two years now where we’ve talked about, what is he bringing to the table? Yet Michael is insists on holding on to guys like Jorge Mateo and, you know, talks about wanting so much veteran depth. The problem is it’s such it’s such middling, underwhelming depth that it zaps your upside. And then, in turn, you have these issues over the last few years where you’ve had young guys ready to come up and play, and there’s not a path for them to establish themselves. So then you end up having a scenario like a Kyle Stowers who only got sporadic playing time the last couple years until the Orioles finally trade him after his trade value was depleted. Then let me be clear. I mean, Kyle Stowers was never a blue chip prospect. I want to, I want to be clear about that. I don’t think he was ever going to be a guy that was going to get them a number two starter in a trade, for example. So let’s, let’s be real about what Kyle Stowers was probably

8

Nestor Aparicio  21:21

the seventh prospect in the whole list of a mayo kerstad. He wasn’t

Luke Jones  21:28

a first round pick, you know, so. But the point is, he There was never a runway for him to to establish himself unless he just raked at an unbelievable level, where he forced the issue so much so then you kind of draw a conclusion about him. You think he’s a quad a player. And I thought he was a quad a player. I’m not going to sit here and beat up Mike Elias too much. From the standpoint of, oh my gosh, you traded Kyle Stowers. The problem was, oh my gosh, all you got back for him, and Norby was Trevor Rogers and Saturday start at Fenway. Notwithstanding, that’s the real beef. But you do have to learn from what happens and when you see Stowers now being what he’s been in Miami. And look, it remains to be seen whether this is who he is moving forward, right? I mean, there are also guys who have a great month or two. Jim Traver comes to mind way back when, once upon a time, lion or is having a great month? Yeah. I mean, so So there’s always acknowledging that. But my point is, Elias has held on to so many of these middling veterans that you’re not real. You kind of zap your upside you block some of these younger guys. I mean, if you’re going to rely on a veteran, you know what, go out and get a legit, seriously good veteran ball player that there’s no questions asked, and you say, all right, that guy is the guy. But instead, you know, the last few years, think about some of the guys we’ve talked about, you know, the Adam Frazier’s of this roster, at times where, you know, Jordan Westberg played sporadically, then for the better part of three months, even though Adam Frazier wasn’t performing, Jorge Mateo hasn’t performed in the

Nestor Aparicio  23:10

outfielder in from the Yankees two years ago. That

Luke Jones  23:12

8

was what. That was actually one that worked out okay, you know. And, and that’s, you know, kind of the exception. But I think in the in efforts of of chasing that you’ve at times, well,

Nestor Aparicio  23:25

some of the Yeah, what’s a stab at that, right? Yeah.

Luke Jones  23:29

I mean, and look, let me be clear. This isn’t me saying don’t have any veterans. This is me saying that if you are going to get some veterans, then really dive into do to doing it, not these middling players that are playing over young guys not really performing, and then the young guys are playing more sporadically. And then, because they’re young and they’re not getting the runway to really play, that kind of hurts their development a little bit. I mean it just I’ve said this to you. This goes all the way back to I remember vividly talking to you about the off season going into 2022 Jordan Lyles, and that was, you know, Jordan Lyles, rug Netto door, Robinson cherinos. I mean, that was their off season at that point in time. And let me be clear, I’m not saying that I was anticipating that 2022 team being great, or a playoff caliber team, or anything like that, but what I was anticipating that year was Adley rutchman arriving at that point, sooner rather than later. And my thought was, why aren’t you trying to build up this roster a little bit more now, at this point where, when Adley rutschman arrives this year, and gunner Henderson arrives later this year. You can hit the ground running a little bit more, and you’ve got a little more veteran capability around them. So that for me,

Nestor Aparicio  24:51

so much in those young players. And it was always going to be. Colton cowser can do that. Westburg can do that. Jackson holiday will do that right and. Didn’t

8

Luke Jones  25:00

all arrive at the same time. And my point with that is, you know, instead, you got these really, like, middling, mediocre veterans for lack for lack of a better

Nestor Aparicio  25:10

Mateo, who will Austin? Hey, I just

Luke Jones  25:13

named some of the guys. Yeah, right. I mean, not Austin Hayes. I’m talking about, like, what their off seasons were, you know. And I’m mentioning mentioning this because this is kind of talking about my frustration with Mike Elias in when it was clear they were at kind of on the cusp of turning the corner, like they didn’t flip the switch on, really. But they won 101

Nestor Aparicio  25:35

8

games two years ago. They did anything wrong in 23 they

Luke Jones  25:40

didn’t have enough pitching. Well, okay, you know, I

Nestor Aparicio  25:43

mean, but they also had John Angelos owning the team, champagne band understood, and they were mentioned freaking broadcaster in the middle of the sea, like, totally understand

Luke Jones  25:52

that. But I would also say, but this goes now we can fast forward to this past off season. They spent money. Oh, they spent much the question. Now, they didn’t spend it long term and and, honestly, thank goodness, because on the books next year, right? No, I mean, Tyler O’Neill is going to be the only, you know, as far as, like, true veteran players that are locked in, because he’s obviously not going to opt out now, after year one, you know, so you’re gonna be stuck with him for two more years, and you hope that he can find a way to be more like the guy he was it in Boston last year. I mean, if he could do that, even if he still going to be on the guy, that’s been a real zero, right? Like, horse. I mean, he’s been all like that. I mean, he hasn’t been like you

8

Nestor Aparicio  26:34

don’t even think. You think, Well, they didn’t give Santan there the money. Well, they gave this guy a third of it, a half of it, you know, like, what? Like

Luke Jones  26:40

the issue was not the issue was not parting with Anthony Santander. The issue was the contingency plan. The issue was the pivot. Santander has been a massive disappointment in Toronto and and look, he’s I’ll hear everything about him being a slow starter and all that. I mean that that is valid, and maybe in August, his numbers will look like Santander, and then it’ll look even worse for the Orioles. But the problem is who they pivoted to, and this, this again, goes back to my point with the veterans that Mike Elias picks, they end up being these cheaper, middling guys that don’t move the needle, and all they kind of do is just take up space, and then in turn, it clogs the lanes for your young guys. So you just, I’ve said so many times to you at where I’ve felt that the Orioles over the last three, four years, despite how good they were the second half of 22 despite how good they were in 23 despite how good they were the first three months last year, that I felt from a roster building standpoint, they’ve been caught in between too much and let me, let me be in fair. Let me be fair to michaelias. You know you mentioned the John Angelo settlement. Totally agree with that. That was absolutely a factor. But I will also say it can be challenging trying to thread the needle of winning baseball games while also wanting to hand the reins over to some of your young guys that you have belief in. But the problem is, if you don’t do that properly, you just get stuck in between. And I think

Nestor Aparicio  28:10

almost all of those guys failed a little bit. Westberg may be the exception, like all those guys, really to say no, but they all struggled. Oh, you know when they came up, right? I mean, Henderson doing it under the cloak of we’re going to lose, we’re not going to be a playoff team’s different. I think all that changed two years ago, like this month, when you’re like, Okay, we can win 100 games this year. We’re good. How do we get better? And to your point, they they’ve not figured that out. And the young guys, all of them, in totality, Henderson included, I’ll throw him in for the six weeks he’s been, have not Henderson’s been okay that for the Houston Astros, they didn’t have that problem when the light went on, their best players performed in that era. At for that Elias and my delta say, well, in Houston, we had the symphony come together and Verlander and money and all of that happened at the same time. But they’re five young players all blossomed and played right now we have what? Rutchman, turd at this point hurt. Turd Henderson figuring it out, right? Is a found entity, right? But cowser, westburg, Mayo, kirsta, just go down the list. Stowers, none of these guys have participated in Baltimore the way that in 2022 or 23 you would have looked it up. And holiday is, we’re not talking enough about him because of freaking teams in last place. He’s been, but he’s, but He’s coming. He’s coming,

Luke Jones  29:49

8

right? He’s been good. And again, I think, with Gunnar Henderson, he’s, he hasn’t been that MVP candidate that he. Was in the first half of last year, but if you still look at what he does, it’s still a good profile, it’s still a valuable profile. It just hasn’t been what it was first half of last year. And it might be that maybe as time goes on, that’s more the outlier, and you know, he’s more like this now, the strikeout rates up. He struggled against left handed pitching. There’s no question, who hasn’t struggled against left handed pitching for this club. We know that, and that’s part of the problem. One of the many problems on

Nestor Aparicio  30:26

this gunner, Henderson church into a platoon player, we got a real problem.

Luke Jones  30:29

I mean, that, but that’s that’s kind of been the problem. They they have a lineup of guys like that where they’re I mean, they’ve struggled against lefties. I mean, you know, Rhino heard supposed to be a platoon player. Now he’s played so well that he’s earned himself the right to not be pinch hit for every time a left handed reliever comes in the game, especially if it’s like the sixth inning, knowing that, okay, even if he’s going up against the lefty, there’s a decent chance he’s going to play face a

Nestor Aparicio  30:58

righty. Mullins had played himself into a fourth or fifth outfielder position, but now feels a little more balanced

8

Luke Jones  31:04

it has been, but he’s been bad in the month of May, and now he’s banged up. So,

Nestor Aparicio  31:08

you know, it’s just banged up. Mullins is never a good Mullins, and

Luke Jones  31:11

that’s that’s why they’re trying to do what they’re doing right now. That’s why we saw, we’ve seen Jorge Mateo in center field. Now, I’ll say this. Dylan Carlson actually is a legitimate Major League center fielder. I’m not saying he’s Devon white, you know. I’m not saying he’s Ken Griffey Jr in center field, but he’s a guy that’s played there and played there plenty. I don’t really understand the merits of Mateo in center and Carlson and left. I’m guessing it has something to do with you’re giving Mateo more of the look of a middle infielder, that he can see the ball off the bat better in center field and try to, you know, he can track it better than a corner spot where, you know guy turns on it and it’s coming right at you, so to speak. So I guess it has something to do with that. But I mean, this is just miserable. It’s miserable. And I’m not trying to say that to be to be hot, takey, it’s miserable. I mean, I lost my

Nestor Aparicio  32:07

8

mind 20 minutes. He talked about it may happen a few more times this summer, but, I mean, we’ll just talk but, but as time’s going to be a last place baseball team for the next four months.

Luke Jones  32:16

I mean, probably, I mean, the only thing I would I would say that maybe that changes. And look, I don’t mean second place. Let’s be very clear about that. But the rest of the Al east, other than the Yankees, I mean, Tampa Bay’s 500 the Blue Jays are a couple games under the Red Sox are very much in a tailspin. It’s funny, the Red Sox played the Orioles, and it’s like some of the Orioles wore off on them. But the only save hideous jerseys I talked about, the only saving grace that I would say that maybe they climb out of the cellar at some point is that they are going to get healthier, and they should be better, in theory, because they’ll be much healthier as the year goes on, assuming they don’t have new injuries, which obviously that that’s a possibility, but, but, yeah, in terms of being relevant, in terms of being all that interesting, I think we’re still in, you know, we’re still kind of talking about what we did before Brandon Hyde was let go, right in the in the sense of, you know, is anything else going to happen with the coaching staff? Are they going to look to hire a manager. I mean, still waiting to hear michaelias take questions at Camden Yards, right? He talked to Milwaukee a week ago, but radio silence since then, because we’re still looking for some clarity on this roster. I mean, I again right now, when you basically had a bench of Emmanuel Rivera and Maverick Hanley on Tuesday night, not so much, but once a few of these guys are coming back, which, you know, a week from now, we could be talking about Westberg and cows are back in the Orioles lineup, what, what corresponding moves are we going to see? Because I said it, and I cited CNL Perez over the weekend, being DF aid, you know, you’ve already thrown Brendan Hyde out of the place, right? You’ve already said, okay, you know you’re, you’re the first guy that’s really taken, oh, Gibson, throw him out. Sure. And Kyle Gibson, you’re right. Thank thanks for reminding me of that. But, well, he was $5 million yeah, yeah, four starts. But my thought is, where are the other changes coming? Right? I mean, at some point in time, you’ve got to look at this, especially with these veteran players, and some of it’s going to be the trade deadline. We know that. But like, again, I hate I’m not trying to pick on them, but I’ve talked about it for the better part of two years. I mean, once cows are back, and once Laureano is back, and they both should be back here really soon, and once westburg is back, which should be soon, hoping he doesn’t have another setback with the hamstring. But you look at this and say, you know, why is? Why is Jorge Mateo on this roster at this point? I mean, what purpose is he serving? Like you mentioned it Okay two years ago, even though I thought it was flimsy, then you could at least sell me on the idea that he’s an attractive pincher. Hunter for a potential postseason roster. I mean, okay, I’ll hear that to a point. I don’t agree with that, but you can’t sell that now, bottom of the barrel here with the team last and you know, and let me be clear, their problems run much deeper, deeper, deeper than Jorge Mateo, and I’m not trying to pick on him as an individual, but I’m

Nestor Aparicio  35:20

sorry I pulled the scab off of that because I I was knee deep in cracking crabs, and I couldn’t, I mean, but watching this, I’m like, That was terrible. Can’t blame Brandon Hyde on that. And the people lost their mind on Brandon Hyde a month ago. About that,

Luke Jones  35:35

I will, I will continue to say, and you know how I felt about the Brandon Hyde thing. I think a change had to be made. But my beefs about Brandon Hyde did not have to do with that. Did not have to do with who’s hitting where in the lineup. I mean, the problem is you don’t have nine good hitters to to even have good debate about where they should be slotted in the order. And I’ve said that as someone who’s wondered why Adley rutschman continues to hit in the top four spots going back to last summer. But for me, it was the energy level, the sloppiness not throwing the ball to the right base, things like that that we saw right out of spring training, things that we saw more of the second half of last year where I said, even if you like the manager, even if you respect the manager, which I think by by all accounts, this team still respected and liked Brandon Hyde, but you know what? They didn’t really play like it. And when that happens, even if you love your manager or your head coach, he’s gonna be gone sooner than later, and the AX fell and but what we’re seeing in the wake of that is Tony mancillino, who look nice enough guy, I think he’s trying his best, but you hear the comments he makes. I mean, he’s trying to be overly positive, and, you know, remind you of a junior varsity high school team more. So really is it’s

8

Nestor Aparicio  37:06

not. And to be clear, to be clear on that, in fairness to him, this feels like leadership to me, but I would say maybe things

Luke Jones  37:13

are a little bit bit different behind closed doors, and he’s trying to protect the players publicly, understanding that the fangs are out for fans and media and all that, just because of how bad it is, right? I mean, everyone’s pissed, for lack of a better way of describing it, everyone’s ticked off. So maybe it’s different behind closed doors. But if how he’s speaking about the team to the media is how he’s talking about it behind closed doors to them, then, man, maybe these guys are coddled too much, you know, I and I’ll leave it at that, a lot of money to, I

Nestor Aparicio  37:44

mean, those and these guys play baseball for a long time, a lot of money to come watch it. And that’s not lost on anybody. It, sure. So when you hear that, every time I reach to go, to see, keep to think about going down there, I add the math up, and I’m like, I

Luke Jones  37:57

8

mean, let me, I’ll just give you an example, because I point blanked, asked him in the post game press conference on Tuesday night about the Orioles being one for 14 with runners in scoring position. And look, they gave up seven runs. I’m this is not me putting it all on the offense, by any means, but they were one for 14 with runners in scoring position. You had a chance easily with a couple hits there to turn four runs in the 678, runs, and maybe even, maybe you even survive the struggles of the bullpen late in the game. But I asked him about it, I said, was it disappointing that you didn’t take advantage of some of those opportunities? His answer was, as I watched the bats, it felt competitive, it felt good, it felt like we were in it a couple big hits here or there, and it might have been a different story, but I appreciate the effort in the battle inspiring people. And again, he’s he’s in a role that he wasn’t intended to be in, right? It’s when he was hired to become their third base coach. I don’t think there was ever a thought over the last five until the last month or so. It looks reluctant. It doesn’t look like, Hey, give me the job. I’ve been waiting all my life to be a manager. We’re gonna go win some ball games here. Let’s go. It doesn’t feel that way to me. It doesn’t at all. It doesn’t at all. And this is why I look at this, and this is why I want to ask Brandon hide this and other people, not me. Everyone wants to ask this at this point. You know, are you really just going to sit back and let this team as it’s presently constructed, just exist for the next four months, and with an interim manager who, to your point again, maybe behind maybe behind closed doors, he is peeling the paint off the wall, so to speak. But it doesn’t feel that way, and it certainly isn’t coming across that way in how he speaks to the media. So you look at that and say, Man, four months is a really long time, and if you’re going to have that, then I don’t feel encouraged about this team’s ability to one play better over the course of the rest of the season, and two be at a point come September where you say, All right, you. You’re not in the playoffs, but you’ve at least climbed back to the fact that you’re within a couple games of 500 or something like that. And we can build on that to go into the off season knowing the general manager, who, if he is still the general manager, is going to have a fire under his you know what? To go out and make some really serious moves to make your team better. And then this thing’s pointed in the right direction, and then we’re having a different having a different conversation about what 2026 can look like. But if this just rots, continues to just die on the vine, the way that it kind of feels, how it’s been for two months now, then I think then you start to really get into territory where it’s difficult to climb out of this. You know, it’s the old, losing is a disease, you know, from the natural where you look at that and say, Man, what? So they’re just going to flip a switch. You know, you’re going to get to waiting for the pile

Nestor Aparicio  40:55

divers to show up here? Sure. Yeah, no. Irish language of Richmond, two years, three years after this, the way he speaks after this, I need more. Ryan o’hern, you know what? I mean, I need more of that.

Luke Jones  41:06

And look, it’s not as though guys aren’t I mean, not gunner Henderson, you know, he grounded out and you saw him throw his helmet, you know, to end an inning on on Tuesday night. I mean, guys are frustrated. I don’t think it’s a case that they don’t care. I just think, I think they are so lost mentally at this point in time, and so beat up mentally when, I mean, all you got to do is look at the standings and and see how many games you have left. I mean, it’s not tough to be discouraged. Look how discouraged we are just talking about it, let alone these guys that are in it. I you know, I’m cognizant of that, but is the leadership in place to get that reversed and moving in the right direction again? And we’re not talking about saving the season here. They’re not saving the season. We’re talking about making things better, just getting better, getting to the point where you’re playing better baseball. About try to shoot to have a month where you play 500 ball for a month. Forget about winning and going 20 and 10. How about going 15 and 15 or 14 and 14 in June, right? I mean, something like that, that would be something to build on at this point. But do you have the leadership in place? Do you have enough pitching in place? And that’s obviously the question we had going back to the winner. But you know, you just look at this. And again, I’m trying not to judge Tony mancillino too harshly, because, again, wasn’t he didn’t sign up for this. He wasn’t hired to do this, right? But, but this is where you are, and that’s why I said, if you’re Mike Elias, can you really, is this really a structure that’s going to cultivate improvement over the next three or four months, or is this just gonna is this going to be 100 plus loss baseball team, and if it is then and

Nestor Aparicio  42:46

or are you doing things that should get you fired, and the guy that owns the team but know his arm from his ass to even fire you or care enough and not know enough or have any expertise, or surrounded by people like Chris Yeoman and Katie Griggs and Greg Bader that are making executive decisions all around and the stadium’s empty. It’s pissing from the sky. The team’s in last place. Everything about it’s awful, and it’s May, yeah, and people have money invested in this, and they want to come down and see something other than Latin Night, where the Latin journalist is banned, or there’s UMBC night, there’s mom and dad night, there’s Star Wars. How about baseball night?

8

43:32

How about that? How about we win? How about you make

Nestor Aparicio  43:36

the team important again. You

Luke Jones  43:37

can only give away so many bobble heads. I mean, you know yourself, Orioles, Hawaiian night shirt, you know, or Hawaiian shirt night you know, though I see

Nestor Aparicio  43:48

8

all these promotions they’re doing, you know, they do everything they should be doing all that, but, but it also the bananas. You know? What? The big thing on my my time I’m gonna push back. See your bananas Facebook, everybody’s in line to get tickets for the bananas, and they won the lottery particular around

Luke Jones  44:07

the country. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a thing. It’s the Harlem Globetrotters for baseball. I mean, it really is,

Nestor Aparicio  44:12

um, well, that’s more popular than going to an Oriole Cardinal game. Then that’s a that is really, well, when you’re

Luke Jones  44:17

talking about a last place team, yeah, you know, I mean, it’s,

8

Nestor Aparicio  44:22

it’s bad that speaks for so bad Luke, they’ll lose again this weekend, and we’ll have more to talk about. Looks at the ballpark. Actually, he’s out knowing Mills running around, asking Justin Tucker questions, and no it’s going to answer no. Fake

Luke Jones  44:35

football, fake football and shorts, football and shorts. Here we go.

Nestor Aparicio  44:39

In cold weather. Where? Where is summer in all of

Luke Jones  44:42

8

this? I was bundled up the other night. I was bundled up on Tuesday night. It’s cold.

Nestor Aparicio  44:47

I put the my wife’s in Florida. It’s 94 every day. The heat on. Don’t you get the heat on? Yeah, I figured you would. It’s 42 degrees around here. What the hell All right, so Luke’s at the ballpark. We’re going to be at Greenmount Station. On the fifth, which is next Thursday, the 13th, we’re back at faith. This is all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. I’m sorry I’m in a bad mood, but the baseball team’s been a disgrace, and I’m not afraid of talking about it. So we’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.