Nestor says it all about Derrick Henry. Luke says it’s all about Lamar Jackson. (Not really.) The third-seeded Baltimore Ravens begin a treacherous path toward another hopeful Super Bowl march that will likely take them through Buffalo and Kansas City after this wintry home “gimme” against the Steelers. Is this the year?
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the upcoming Ravens-Steelers wild card game, emphasizing the Ravens’ 9.5-point advantage and their superiority over the Steelers. They highlighted Lamar Jackson’s impressive season statistics: 4,172 passing yards, 41 touchdowns, and 4 interceptions, along with 900 rushing yards. They also noted the importance of Derrick Henry, who has been a significant addition to the offense. Despite the Ravens’ recent struggles in January, they believe the team is well-prepared and capable of advancing to the next round. The conversation also touched on the MVP debate, with Jackson’s performance this season being compared favorably to Josh Allen’s.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Ravens vs Steelers, Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry, playoff expectations, defensive performance, offensive efficiency, MVP debate, home field advantage, January struggles, Super Bowl run, Pittsburgh rivalry, weather impact, postseason pressure, team chemistry, historical context
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
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Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, Snowmageddon in Baltimore. Positive here this week, as well as wild card action on Saturday night, ravens taking on the Pittsburgh Steelers. Luke and I are going to be talking at length about the game. Let me talk to situationally, last piece, just about the rivalry and just the the heaviness of all of these games and how they add up. The Ravens will be the second on a docket of six over the weekend. Not shocking at all that it’s Saturday night. Those of you out there battling the elements in the snow earlier in the week and the forecast for the weekend and all that. Please drive safely. Take care of yourselves out there. Well, we’ve had some Maryland crab cake tour stops up at libs grill in Bel Air on suspension this week, so we’re hanging out, shoveling out, try not to hurt our back, shoveling and get the plan of fitness and get all that going when you get into the mid 50s, like me, Luke Jones is here, and he’s not in his mid 50s, but he’s in his early 40s. And we’ll get to the Orioles and whatever the hell that was with Charlie Morton over the weekend. We’re going to stick to football for now, but we will talk to baseball. You and I, because I know you’re just like, you’re ready, but there’s nothing other than this football game, right? Like, I mean, for this organization, for the bad beats that they’ve had for this road. That’s not an easy road, as I’ve pointed out, like and as I point out my column this this week, if you’re down in New Orleans dancing on Bourbon Street four weeks from now, five weeks from now, they will have really have done something that being said, if they’re eliminated on Sunday morning. This is very, very problematic, and the Steelers sort of bring a lot of ugly with them in regard to this. And for Tomlin as well, and for the disappointments of Pittsburgh, there’s going to be a fan base very disappointed on Sunday, but if you’re a nine and a half point favorite ravens, better handle a business man.
Luke Jones 02:00
Yeah, there’s no question about that. There’s no reason to hide from that. The ravens are a better football team than the sealers, period. And it’s not particularly close. That said, gotta go out and beat them, right? You gotta outplay them for three hours. It’s a 60 minute ball game. We’ve talked about it, you know. Go, go look at all the cliches from Ray Lewis and Troy Polamalu, and go down the list of all the the characters of this rivalry over the years. You know, throw out Ryan mallet and Charlie batch, and go down the list of unlikely heroes in this rivalry, or unlikely villains in this rivalry. So but, but none of that changes the fact that the ravens are a better football team than the Steelers. They should beat them. They better beat them, right? I mean, it’s, it’s a very uncomfortable not conversation, and uncomfortable off season, uncomfortable in terms of, where do you go from here if you don’t win this football game? You know the path after that is what it is. It’s not going to be easy. It wasn’t easy for Joe Flacco in 2012 right? I mean, going to Denver and beating Peyton Manning and going to Foxborough and beating Tom Brady, you know, two Hall of Famers. So, you know, looking at it through that lens, it’s not drastically different from that. And this is a better team, right? And it’s the postseason. Everyone’s good, right? I mean, it’s not, yeah, it’d be great if they were the number one seed, but they’ve been the number one seed before, and they’ve lost. So, you know, I said this tongue in cheek, really, for, you know, the last 12 months where I said, Maybe this team finally breaking through, it’s going to be when, you know, they’re not considered the overall favorite or the overall best team, but they’re still really, really good when you look at how they profile, especially when you consider how their defense has trended. I mean, this has arguably been the best defense in the NFL since week 11. I mean, that’s how good it’s been. I don’t know if I’d put it at number one, because they haven’t exactly faced a juggernaut of a schedule of opponents since week 11,
Nestor Aparicio 04:03
and they’re not this week, by the way, this is not kind of high powered offense that should intimidate them in any way, but,
Luke Jones 04:08
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but my point is, their defense is playing at a really high level. So when you couple that with an offense that has played at a high level all year long, with a quarterback who’s already a two time MVP and is, have you know, in the midst of the best season of his career, 4000 passing yards, 900 rushing yards, 41 touchdown passes, four interceptions. I mean, just think about that. It’s not just that this offense, not just that Lamar Jackson has been extremely explosive and productive, you know, through the air, and also obviously Derek Henry running the ball. But they’ve been very they’ve been outstanding about taking care of the football as well. Everything about this matchup suggests that the Ravens should win and win by the nine and a half points at their favorite if not more than that. But you’ve got to do it, and we’ve. Talked about what Pittsburgh likes to do. You know, I made mention in a previous segment, as far as I don’t even know what Pittsburgh’s a game is. I think their A game is to bring you down to your C game, and they’ll beat you with their c plus, right? I mean, it’s, it’s strange in that way. I mean, there isn’t a whole lot about Pittsburgh, especially offensively. Now the defense, you know, that’s a different story. And obviously it’s, they’ve got some phenomenal players on the defensive side of the football, but you know, their offense, you know what sticks out about it that’s particularly great, nothing, really. I mean, they’ve got some some good players. I’m not saying it’s completely devoid of talent, but compared to what the Ravens have at full strength, and we’ll get into zay flowers here momentarily. But, you know, it, it’s very distinct, so that’s where I’ve said they better win. You know, not not just because of Raven Steelers, but just because of where the Ravens have been the last several years and what’s happened this time of year. And you know, there’s, heaven forbid, if you lose this football game. I mean, it’s, I don’t know where you go from here, that that’s what’s so uncomfortable about it. Because how can it happen? Keep happening where you’re so great in the regular season, and you’re not anything close to that in January? So But that said, All that being said, this is a team that has the advantage very much when you’re talking about their offense compared to Pittsburgh’s offense. Still has the advantage their offense compared to Pittsburgh’s defense. Now Pittsburgh’s defense is good, but this offense has been great, and on the other side, Pittsburgh offense has been at best, kind of mediocre, and at times, playing bad. And this ravens defense, while statistically in its totality, doesn’t look special, it’s been really, really good since week 11, you know, with the changes that they made at safety and at linebackers. So it’s as simple as going out and handling your business. Go out and play. You know, you know, you don’t need to be the a plus version of yourself, but you can’t be the C version of yourself, right? I mean, don’t let Pittsburgh drag you down into the mud or the snow on Saturday if the forecast that early on in the week plays out. So, you know, it’s just you have two teams that are familiar with each other. We know the history. We know the history that has favorite Pittsburgh, quite frankly, albeit not in blowout fashion. And we know that Lamar missed a lot of those games, a couple of those games the Ravens didn’t really try, you know, like the end of last year. But, you know, you’ve got to go do it. You know, you can’t. You can’t let Pittsburgh hang around, you know, if you let them hang around, and yeah, everything about not just Raven Steelers, but more specifically, for the ravens, January. And you know, you don’t want to be tight, right? So, you know, it, it, there’s no there’s nothing magic about what the Ravens need to do, go out and play your game and handle your business and beat a team that’s not as good as you, and then you’re moving on to the next round. It really is that simple.
Nestor Aparicio 08:05
Yeah, I don’t we can’t even dwell on the Cleveland game over the weekend. It feels like a month ago, and they’ve had they, both these teams, have had the extra rest because they played on Saturday, and it kind of all worked out in the end to where it is. Pittsburgh has him one in a month, and the Ravens haven’t lost in a month, and I go back to that day after the Philadelphia loss and to say where the team was at that point. Kicker had it in the head. Special team wasn’t very good. Defense wasn’t great. Offense was scoring points against most teams and still looking DVO way and all of that, but Lamar was falling out of the MVP race at that point. Is Josh Allen sort of took off and has become the, you know, the betting favorite, amongst other things too, which is, I find it on a statistical basis. I don’t want to get into that MVP argument, because I was going to go down the road as a flowers, and in this matchup, we already did point spread, now crazy. All of that is but how much better the ravens are than their record, how much better they are than their seating? I don’t know how big an underdog they would be in Buffalo next week if they were to wax the Steelers, 41 to 14. I really don’t know what the expectation is. But I know, on a level playing field across all this talking heads, that I sit here all the people I know. I sit here and watch NFL Network, I watch ESPN, I watch Rex Ryan. I want you know all these people that have been on my show, whatever, they all love the ravens, and they’re going to love the Ravens in a fight against the bills or the chiefs, because I think when they get off the bus, and I’ll pat myself on the back, and I’ll write my column this week, and I’ll point it out that the Derrick Henry factor of him being healthy available, whether you love the guards or not, or the center play, or what’s going on in the middle of the line, however you feel about zay flowers and. However you feel about the weather. If you hate the snow on Saturday, you got Derek, Henry, um, there is a point for me where I do feel like we’re going into playoff games with Jim Brown, healthy, no, really motivated. Like, if you watch the Pro Bowl thing, like I haven’t spent five minutes with that guy. I mean, I haven’t. I’ve never met him. I don’t, I don’t think he’s ever maybe he’s been on a radio row back in the day. And I looked across the room and said, Oh, that’s Derek Henry, but I Josh Jacobs on the show. You know what? I mean, another Alabama guy, right? So, but I’ve never met Derek Henry. I’ve admired Derrick Henry, and if the postman would have gotten here in time, I have a little special something I’m going to, you know, I’m going to debut this week. Other the Oilers did not look very good in those jerseys on Sunday, no matter what. Put them away, but Derek Henry going to the Hall of Fame, right? And He’s on our team this time, and all of those beautiful tweets that will look really good when you write Purple Rain three in a couple of weeks where I said they would be my word was unstoppable. Now I gotta go back and get the tape, because I probably was more the laying it on real thick on the radio, talking about it in a tweet. I just said unstoppable. And I do remember you and I having a couple of cat fights around trading deadlines two years running. That you know, if they had Derrick Henry, if they had Derrick Henry, if they had Derrick Henry, they have Derrick Henry, it’s going pretty well, dude. I don’t want to say I’m crescen and all of this, or that the Costa shouldn’t have traded for him last year. Um, but in a snow game at home, away, it might be snowing in Buffalo next week, in Kansas City, wherever, um, it’s January, and Lamar, still the greatest player on Earth and now is a flowers is a question. The weather’s a question as to whether you could put the ball up in the air. The kicking game is going to be a question, even if everything’s perfect on Saturday night, because the kicking game has been a question. So how we’re going to score points and get to 3134 38 those places that we like to go back when the weather was good, maybe you get to 23 or 27 or 29 or maybe there’s fourth and ones and fourth and threes and fourth and fives that you know, like there’s just a lot going on here. Man, I love talking football this time of year, and I love their story right now, like their pathway, and I’m watching from the outside. But the thing about Derrick Henry that I’m alarmed by, in a good way. I don’t know anything about that guy, although he wrote he ran people over. I didn’t even know the sound of his voice, really, in Tennessee for 10 years, because I never paid much attention until he was running over us. I mean, I noticed that when that happened a couple January’s ago, right before we all put mask on and went away for a little while. I think he’s a special guy. I thought he was a special guy. I thought he was a special guy at Alabama when he’s running people over, um, people love him here. I love him enough that I want to put a Hall of Fame jersey on my back and but they’ve got something really special here with the DVO way and the legendary this and the legendary that. And I couldn’t help but think, um, full disclosure, I have a special relationship with a long time Minnesota Vikings friend Insider, and I text this friend on Sunday night when they’re going into Detroit to try to get that home game back to Minnesota. Get there by now, they have to go out to LA and play, and it’s a whole different lay of the land. You know, no offense to Sam darnold, and we’ll get to that in another segment for the whole tournament, but it’s a whole different lay of the land to have to go on the road and do it, than to be at home. And I think of the disappointments of the Minnesota Vikings, how disappointed are the people of the Detroit community going to be if Baker Mayfield comes in there and runs them over, you know, like they’re one seed. It’s all sitting there. We finally had it after three decades here, really five decades. If you want to go back to 1970 and you know, you really want to get serious on winning Super Bowl five and losing Super Bowl three, and where our community was then. But I think where Kansas City fought all these years now, they’re just in New England, fired their coach. Can’t get it right. Tom Brady’s on TV. He’s going to take over the Raiders, you know, like all, like, all that happens in these eras, and things that go right and things that go wrong. And so far, the Lamar error here has been really pregnant with possibility, and it’s been if he’s only, if he only threw the ball a little better, if they if only he had, if only we could get him a wide receive only, could get into wide receivers. If only we could get him an offensive line. If only we could get him Derek Henry, if only we could draft any, a generational player like Kyle Hamilton. If only Marlon Humphrey could come back and put. Play like he’s trying to go to the Hall of Fame, and like it’s all sitting here and now it gets measured this week for all of this, all that being said, and long winding row to me saying I love getting off the bus with Derek Henry on Saturday, and I’ve said that all along, so I’m not going to be the one betting against them now. Okay. Oh, you were betting against them a month ago, but, yeah, that’s fine. They were losing games. You’re betting against the Steelers right now, because they’re losing games. Yeah, okay. I’m just saying
Luke Jones 15:31
no, what you said. I mean, look, would it be great if they were the number one seed, of course. Would it be great if they weren’t playing this week? Of course, there’s one team, two teams, you know, one in each conference, that can say that right now. Well, they played
Nestor Aparicio 15:45
themselves into this position and as because of atrophy or injury or Lamar early in
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Luke Jones 15:52
the season, yeah. I mean, it’s and even, you know, even some, even when you look at those games, weird things happened. You know, weird things happen in that. You know, the Raiders game is the one that even more so than the Browns game. I mean, even the Browns game that loss, it’s a division road game. You know, we’ve seen how that works. I mean, the Patriots went up to Buffalo and nearly beat the bills a couple weeks ago, and the bills are one of the best teams in the NFL. I mean, division games are weird in that way, and
Nestor Aparicio 16:23
the Ravens destroyed the bills destroyed them. And it’ll get brought up. We’ll be talking about that all next week, right, right,
Luke Jones 16:29
you know, but, but my point was talking about the division games. So, like, even that Brown’s road loss, yes, it was a bad loss, but it was a weird game, right? I mean, they had been Williams, they dropped like three. I mean, Hamilton literally dropped an interception that would have sealed the game the play before Jameis Winston throws a touchdown. They have one game all year where you look at it and just say, What the heck happened? And it was week two against the Raiders, right? I mean, that game, right? There was the difference between, you know, not not being the number one seed, because Kansas City ended up doing what they did. And, you know, you give them credit and, well,
Nestor Aparicio 17:07
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whatever, that crazy oh two thing and winning the Super Bowl, right? Remember we, because we went through that right back in the beginning of the year. This is where, when you’re oh and two, you wind up having to go to Buffalo and Kansas City, because it’s really hard to be oh and two and finish 14 and three,
Luke Jones 17:23
right? I mean, that you would need to do to be a one seat, right? Right? And part of that is just that it’s really tough to go 14 and three period, right? I mean, all those oh and two stats that we hear in week three about oh, this percentage of teams that started oh and two made the playoffs, it’s because, because most oh and two teams just are bad teams, right? So when you have statistical anomalies, it’s important to to remember that. I mean, the Raven starting, oh and two was more fluky than all. They’re bad, right? Cincinnati is a great example of this, right? Bengals are playing really good football at the end of the year. They have no one to blame but themselves for not being in the playoffs. They can’t be mad at Kansas City for resting their starters against Denver on Sunday. Be mad that they stunk in in September, right? Be mad that they started out foreign aid, or whatever it ended up being. I mean, they have no one to blame but themselves, but themselves. So, you know when you’re the Ravens. Yeah, you started oh and two, but then you won five straight, and you got yourself back on good footing. And look, we can sit here all day and talk about home field advantage and the number one seat. I mean, the Ravens have been there. You know, they had that in 2019 they had won, what, 12 in a row. I think it was when Tennessee came in there and beat them in the divisional round last year. They were on fire in the month of December, kind of like how they’ve been playing right now, right finishing up the regular season. You know, they went out to San Francisco on Christmas night, and they crushed the 40 Niners. They clobbered the the dolphins, who were at least a pseudo flavor of the month last year with that offense. And, you know, we’re riding high. They, you know, kind of stubbed their toe a little bit in the first half against Houston, and then took care of business. And Kansas City comes to town, and we know what happened after that. So, you know, yes, it’s better to be the number one seed. It’s better to be the number two seed, but they’re the three seed. They’ve got a home playoff game. We talked about the importance of that, right? The idea of going on the road for the entirety of your January run is very, very difficult. We’ve talked about the 2002 1012 ravens as much as we think of those teams as road warriors. They had a first round home playoff game, and talking about that important? Well, the league
Nestor Aparicio 19:33
tries to never give teams three games in a row on the road, because it’s just not right.
Luke Jones 19:37
I mean, it’s just it’s tough to navigate. It’s difficult. That said, everything about January is just tough, right? I mean, even Kansas City right now, you know, they’re waking up and you know, they got their butts kicked. You know, their backups and third string guys got their butts kicked on Sunday. Who cares? But as much as things are looking so positive for them, because they have the first round by and home field advantage. And you know, they’ve gotten some guys back healthy, and they were playing their best football the year. At the end of the season, they’re still looking at, they’re looking at this right now and saying, all right, if, you know, if all goes well, you know, we’re still going to have to get through, you know, someone in the divisional round you know could be the chargers, for example, who? Hey, division opponent, another one of those, you never know, type situations, and then they’re still gonna have to be most likely, either buffalo or the ravens, right? So none of these paths are easy, right there? There are paths that are more favorable when you have a whole home field advantage. But you know, if you’re the ravens, you’re looking at this and saying, look at the entire playoff field right now. That the AFC playoff field ravens played all of them. They lost to one. It was Kansas City. Isaiah likely’s toe on the back end line. If that doesn’t happen, they’re going for two with a shot to beat the chiefs in week one, and they’re the 2c right? So, or, you know, who knows, the season maybe has a different trajectory from that point on. So, so, you know, you just look at it and you say, Okay, you’re gonna have to win a couple road games. They’ve won road games this year, you know, they’ve, they’ve won road games this year and and beaten some quality teams on the road. And, you know, you just got to gear up and go play. And a big part of it, and I think this is such a big challenge for this football team. And I, I don’t just mean Lamar Jackson, although, certainly he’s the headliner here, but this applies for Marlon Humphrey. This applies for Ronnie Stanley. This applies for, you know, the the younger guys on the roster, like Kyle Hamilton, who has been through it, but not as extensively, they all have to be able to compartmentalize and not be thinking about last year, and not be thinking about the year before that, and certainly not be thinking about 2019 you have to go out there and play football and understand that, yes, it’s important, and Yes, you need to leave everything out there. And yes, you want to have the proper urgency, and you don’t want to start, you know, you don’t want to come out flat, and there is no next week if you have a bad day, understanding all of that, but also being able to put that aside and just go play. You know, I think one of the most maddening parts of what’s happened to the Ravens over the last five, six years, when we’ve talked about them in January, is not that they’ve lost, it’s that they look so out of character in doing it right. If it were a case, if they had lost to the Chiefs last January in this crazy back and forth game where Lamar throws three touchdowns, but Patrick mahomes throws four, and it’s just this epic back and forth kind of shootout, as frustrating, as heartbreaking as that would have been, I think there still would have been a sense of you begrudgingly tip your cap to a team that’s also great. But it’s just that we saw the Ravens look a certain way all year, and then they don’t look that way. And that’s random all
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Nestor Aparicio 23:03
six times. That’s where you get into that you’ll never if this generation, if Lamar never wins the Super Bowl, and we don’t have the parade here, that’s going to be, you know, that’s as good as it gets. To your point, we consider make all excuses about Isaiah, likely tow and the raiders and all this. There is a huge difference between sitting home waiting on the Texans to come to town and like last year, and having a home game and what that pathway represents, versus getting ready to go slobberknocker with the Steelers without zay flowers in the snow on Saturday night and then, okay, great, you won. Great. No style points, you won. Doesn’t matter how you won. Now we got to go to Buffalo. Um, yeah, where they beat Denver. What, 37 to 10. I mean, you know what? I mean, like, I I’m assuming that’s going to be a walk. But so then you go to Buffalo, and then if you make it, and you’d say, well, you beat them by three touchdowns, four touchdowns. Here, great. Go win another cold night, then you go to Kansas City. Now you get to where you were last year, except you’re on the plane and you’re out there and there’s, oh, you remember all of that from Thursday, 18 weeks ago, except it’s cold and you might lose another player or two between now and then. They might do, sure, but, but they don’t have to play this week, and you do. And, boy, just in 90 seconds, I just laid out the difference between last year and this year. You better not run the ball six times. And yeah. And as I go back to you have Derek, Henry, by the way, I, I know you’ve been dying to discuss this, Luke, but I have not heard you discuss it, and I know you don’t want to discuss it any more than who. I saw somebody on TV over the weekend. It just said, I don’t want to talk about this. One of the one of the football players, MVP, the Lamar job. Where are you? Because I haven’t, I don’t give it. A lot of oxygen. So I get two minutes here with you. I’m sort of astonished at Lamar is just not considered the guy. And I hear cases for Josh Allen and the team that the player with, the team that does better is usually the guy. Anyway, I’ll hear saquon Barkley, I, you know, I, but I just did the numbers alone and lamar’s ability to run and what he does with his legs, it’s, it’s now being taken for granted. I’m, I’m, I’m in the you’re gonna give Josh Allen the MVP. Why?
Luke Jones 25:34
Because he hasn’t won it yet. I mean, I think that’s where a lot of this look. Let me be very clear, I don’t care about MVP anymore. I really don’t. I’m so fatigued by that whole thing. I really am. And it’s not because Lamar hasn’t had a phenomenal season. He has. He’s had a historic season. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 25:54
think back to the conversations you and I and so many other people had six, seven years ago, talking about him as a passer, and he’s a 4000 yard passer. This year, he threw 41 touchdowns. He had four interceptions. This is not a low volume passing attack. And the fumble thing, no takes care of the ball, slate of hand. Nobody takes better care of the football than Lamar Jackson. And if you would have told me six years ago he was just going to be a so so passer and a hell of a runner, and this thing was going to look like Michael Vick, but maybe a little bit better. But you would have said to me, he’s really going to take care of the football better than you think, like he’s not going to get better as a passer. He’s just going to he’s going to be good, but he’s just going to take good care of the football. If you would have told me that, I would have signed up for it and believed it. You know what I mean, like the getting better in the passing and adding Derrick Henry, which was, of course, my recommendation all along, like all of these drafting the center, which nobody wanted to hear about. But I loved it because I saw how Joe Flacco changed the minute Matt Burke wasn’t around anymore. It just changed everything. It changed everything about the first second and a half of him getting the football as he was getting older and the team was getting less around him, 10 years ago, I felt like the center was so important. And if I were writing Purple Rain three if I still had access to all this in our real journalist, I would slather a lot of that on but the thing for me with Lamar is taking care of the football. If Lamar fumbles twice on Saturday night because of the snow and throws a pic and they get eliminated, I’ll defend him on Sunday morning, is still being a guy takes good care of the football because he has it would be out of character. Be another way they lose. They’ve lost a lot of different ways in January, right? Like this, if six inches of snow Saturday afternoon, we change things around, or I think, but in the way they could go to the air as a flowers changes things. But to me, taking care of the football is everything. It’s everything. He doesn’t throw picks. He doesn’t fumble the ball on an offense where I would have told you you’re gonna play Hokey Pokey with the football. Come on, the ball is going to hit the ground. I’m wrong.
Luke Jones 28:05
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Yeah. I mean, the Ravens set a franchise record. They had 11 giveaways all year, which I believe 2019 another Lamar Jackson year, I think, was the previous record. They had 15. I mean, when you’re averaging less than than one turnover per game, you’re gonna win a lot of football games, and that’s and that’s even not even taken into account, like what your roster looks like if you just take care of the ball, if you don’t beat yourselves. It’s a big part of it, right? Every
Nestor Aparicio 28:40
quarterback that’s ever been jettisoned that hasn’t been Joe Namath or Brett Farve it’s been because they’ve thrown the ball away, right? Like Jameis Winston’s career, like all of those quarterbacks with potential, it’s, it’s been they, they throw the ball to the other team. It’s too easy to do. Yeah. I mean, watch the backups over the weekend. You know, guys that don’t do it often, the Bailey zaps, they can look okay, and they can hit guys across. They do all that until the wrong corner bites down and it’s a pick six, and then all of a sudden, everything you just did got eliminated instantly.
Luke Jones 29:15
Yeah, I mean, and you actually just brought up something interesting when you mentioned Bailey zappy and just talking about quarterbacks, and just talking about quarterbacks. Go look at the quarterbacks in the league. You know. Go to ESPN, nfl.com, wherever, and look at stats for the 2024 season passing stats. Go look at the quarterbacks who threw more interceptions than Lamar Jackson this year. And I just brought it up, and I’ll, you know, I’m doing this in real time, and Lamar hasn’t missed the snap this year, by the way, either. Not, yeah, right. I mean, he was pulled because Exactly, yeah. But here, here are some of the quarterbacks who threw more interceptions than Lamar Jackson this year, who, you know Lamar this year. And again, let me I’m doing this in real time. Him. Lamar finished the season 16th in overall pass attempts. So again, speaks to the volume. Right? His MVP season, five years ago, he was near the bottom in pass attempts as it pertained to starting quarterbacks. So it just speaks to this isn’t just a a low volume, high efficiency passing attack. It’s become a kind of run of the mill volume passing attack that still has incredible efficiency. So but anyway, quarterbacks this year who have more interceptions than Lamar Jackson, and I’m not I’m going through guys that are not regular starters. Spencer rattler had more interceptions than Lamar Jackson this year, Drew lock had more interceptions than Lamar Jackson this year. Dorian Thompson, Robinson, who is maybe the worst Browns quarterback I’ve ever seen, by the way, through more more interceptions than Lamar Jackson this year. Andy Dalton through more interceptions than Lamar Jackson. I’m
Nestor Aparicio 30:57
not Garoppolo. I didn’t even know. I thought he was a witness protection. I didn’t even know he was still in the league and they League, and they look Jimmy Garoppolo is coming in. I’m like, he might have to come in a playoff game. He went to a Super Bowl. He almost won it. So, like, I I think about all of these names of guys out there that I haven’t even heard of, Joe Flacco. I mean, Joe Flacco threw more interception.
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Luke Jones 31:20
Joe Flacco threw more interceptions than Lamar Jackson display. Joe
Nestor Aparicio 31:24
throw dozen this year. He threw seven, seven. Okay, seven
Luke Jones 31:27
in 248, passing attempts. You know, Joe, Joe actually had a 90.5 passer rating. Joe’s getting ready to turn 40 years old. So anyway, my point is, with all of that phenomenal, extraordinary job taking care of the football, considering how much the football is in his hands. Not just as a passer, as I mentioned, he’s very much, you know, with middle of the pack in passing attempts compared to years ago, where, you know, he didn’t, he didn’t throw as much. It was 2025, times a game. So So doing that, but also as a runner, also the mesh point and the read options, as you pointed out. So my point in saying all that is, I think in 2019 Lamar was clear cut. He was it was unanimous. Last year, he was almost unanimous, but statistically, there wasn’t really a great candidate, right? I mean, go, look at lamar’s numbers last year compared to this year. You know, they they almost feel pedestrian. And I don’t mean that that he didn’t have a good season last year. It’s just statistically, it wasn’t special. This has been a special, historic kind of season for Lamar Jackson at quarterback. Now, Josh Allen’s had a phenomenal year as well. He’s been terrific, and I think part of what’s helping him, as far as that narrative, is that the bills had the kind of attrition that they did with their roster turning over in you know, the Ravens lost some players as well, but bills both sides of the ball and, you know, they traded stuff on digs. Look at some of the defensive starters that left in the off season. There was very much a perception that the bills were going to take at least a half step back this year, right? I mean, there were even people who thought the jets or the dolphins might win that division. I mean, that’s, you know, I and I think some of that’s been overblown, because some people will try to paint it in a way that they thought the bills were going to be bad. I don’t think anyone thought the bills were going to be bad. I think I certainly expected the bills to still be a playoff team. But I think there was very much a question of whether they were going to be right there, you know, Kansas City here. Were they going to be that half step below them? I expected them to be where Houston is. It’s kind of okay, yeah, I think that’s fair, right? So, so I think a bad, good team, as you like to say. So looking at it through that lens, I think that’s where it helps. Josh Allen, a little bit. Look, I see some people, some there are a lot of bad actors when it comes to these, you know, the these MVP debates, and frankly, both fan bases, a lot of the talking heads, you know, you’ll see arguments where it’s like, okay, you’re kind of being disingenuous, and how you present it. But I, if I’m looking at it as objectively as I can, understanding both quarterbacks have been great, and in any given year, either profile would be very deserving of winning MVP and understanding last year again, Lamar, it was almost by by default. There wasn’t a phenomenal candidate statistically, and the Ravens were the best team in football in the regular season. So it made sense, and it was fine. And you know, Lamar is MVP, I would have voted for him. I had no problem with that.
Nestor Aparicio 34:37
8
And by the time he got to Christmas, there boat racing the 49
Luke Jones 34:41
Exactly, right? But again, it’s, it’s not, you know, he didn’t have 41 touchdown passes last year, you know? I mean, he was in the was in the 20s, you know, so but, but I think Lamar has just been so good, it’s been so impressive that I think if you stripped away everything you knew about. These two guys, and you just looked at their body of work, their respective bodies of work this year, think you’d have to give it to Lamar.
Nestor Aparicio 35:09
Does that mean he’s going to win? He probably won’t, because Tom Brady only won three MVPs in his career, which, by the way, no one knows. Because why no one cares? Because he won all those Super Bowls. So I for as much as we’re talking about this, and I’ll leave you with this point, because I I’ve already gone way, way longer about the MVP that I thought we haven’t talked about it at all. I mean, you know, well, it’s because I talked about, if we were the big, bad morning show here, we would take three days where the phone calls about it. So yeah, I mean, five minutes is what it deserves to me, but it is, there is something to be said about it, because at the end, when the case is made for him that he doesn’t win, that would be unfortunate in this kind of a year, because it isn’t clear cut to me. And look, if it’s one more thing that pisses him off to win this week and win next week, then they don’t want them to win out there. And again, I spoke about Derrick Henry very lovingly here. I’ve never met Derrick Henry. I’m a fan, admirer of what he brings to an offense, especially this time of the year, which I thought was a missing ingredient that I jumped up and down as a football expert, person that has been doing this for four decades, that I’m pretty heartened by the fact that they’re in a position now that they’ve given Lamar tools to win. Zay flowers being one of them, it’s an important one. And I, you know, I hope it goes well for them on Saturday night, and I hope that this is the magic carpet ride that the city deserves. You got one more point, and then we’ll break we’re going to talk League. We Yeah, the Orioles signed a picture. Did you know that the Orioles signed a picture? Did you hear about that? You did? We’ll get into that. Well, I heard about that on the wnst tech service. I just want to make sure that right people, yeah, departed by Cole roofing, but I was getting
Luke Jones 36:47
ready to say my final point about MVP, and I’ll leave it at this. And I already said Lamar would be my pick if Josh Allen wins, I’m not going to lose a wink of sleep about it, but I’ll say this. This is my ironclad guarantee about this, if it, and I’m making the assumption it’s not going to be saquon Barkley, but if it’s Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen, whoever the winner is, if they are in New Orleans, at NFL honors, accepting that award rather than preparing for the Super Bowl a couple days later and just shooting a video saying, Hey guys, thanks a lot. I’m getting ready for the Super Bowl. I’m honored. I appreciate everyone who voted for me. One of them is going to be there, Josh Allen and Lamar both came. One’s going to be getting the board. Might be doing either playing or not, right? My point is, whoever wins, if they are at the at the ceremony and not preparing for the Super Bowl, they’re going to be mocked by so many people, because at the end of the day, I don’t even want to say the gold standard. The more appropriate description is the sterling silver standard remains Patrick mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs, you know, because the Lombardi is made out of sterling silver. So if it’s Lamar winning the MVP, man, I hope he’s not at the NFL honors again, and if it’s Josh Allen who wins it, if they’re not, you know, if the bills aren’t in the Super Bowl and he’s there, it’s going to feel empty for him as well. It’s going to Patrick mahomes is not thinking about the Honors award. That’s my point. And he’s not getting bored with winning, by the way, either. And this is where I’m I really, I loved something that Lamar said this past week. I may have mentioned this to you because it was, it was early last week, but he was asked about, you know, Lamar had a chance on Saturday night to set the all time single season passer rating record. Now, you know it was actually ended up being one of his four games all year. He had a passer rating under 100 even though it wasn’t his best day. But he certainly didn’t have a bad game by any stretch. He just wasn’t quite as sharp throw on the football. You know, 50% completion percentage. But he was asked about whether that was meaningful to him, you know, if he could set the single season passer rating record, which, hey, passer rating is not everything, but it’s, you know, it’s one of the measures that we talk about when it comes to quarterbacks and how well they’re playing. He said it would be, you know, if, if he was in his childhood mindset, that would be exciting to him, and that would mean something to him. He’s worried about winning games. I truly think that first MVP for Lamar, yeah, it meant, it meant something to it. It would mean something to any player, right, when you’re recognized in that way, you know, compared to your peers. I think last year, as devastating as the loss to Kansas City was, I think the MVP still, because it had been five years. It was post contract. The two year saga, him wanting a guaranteed deal, all the everything that played out right, all the other teams that didn’t want them, all of that, I think that still meant something to him as an individual, even though he was so disappointed that the Ravens had lost. I don’t think he gives a hoot about this MVP award. I really don’t. I think Lamar Jack. Jackson at this point, is singularly focused on getting this team to New Orleans. Now, Patrick mahomes gonna have something to say about that. Josh Allen’s gonna have something to say about that. The Pittsburgh Steelers gonna have something to say about that on Saturday night, but him making that comment about a childhood mindset, and that’s where, I think, where the Ravens need to be as a team right now. Who gives a crap about MVP, or how many Pro Bowl players you have, or what your DVOA was, or how many records you just set, or how well your defense is playing from week 11 on, it’s all about going out and beating the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday night. Go want to know on Saturday night, and then, good job. Then you need to go. Want to know, presumably, against buffalo The following week, assuming you know things happen the way I think most of us expected to. It is all about that. It’s not about style points, it’s not about individual awards. It’s not about how many guys made the Pro Bowl this team at this point in time, the maturity should be there. They’ve gone through 2019 and 20 and 22 and certainly last year, at some point in time. And Aaron shots made a great point about this there. The NFL history is littered with teams that couldn’t win the big game until they won it. Think about John Elway the narrative of his career in 1995 great statistical quarterback can’t win the big one. He won two in a row to finish off his career. You know, think about Steve Young, you know, replacing Joe Montana couldn’t win a Super Bowl. Couldn’t win a Super Bowl he wanted in 1994 Peyton Manning, Oh, Tom Brady’s got all the rings, you know. Peyton Manning, you know he’s all about finally won a Super Bowl. So look, Lamar, he’s 20. He’s gonna be 28 years old here. You know, in the next couple days, it’s got a long way to go and and the way his career is progressing, that with him as a passer, his career is going to age way better now than you might have said five years ago. I think we would all agree with that. And everyone has to stay healthy. You
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Nestor Aparicio 42:01
know, I can do a hell of Lamar thing. I mean, he prays a Lamar one way or another. The one thing his health and the fact that I didn’t like he’s running the linebackers on Saturday, by the way, sure, sure about that, right? And and being smart about that, but also what defensive players can get away with against Steve Young and hitting him in the head. And every time I see Troy Aikman, I think him getting hit. And had, you know all the guys at Merrill Hodge, who’s coming on the show in a couple of weeks, all these guys that got hit in the head. He won a quarterback. But, I mean,
Luke Jones 42:30
it’s a brutal game. I mean, it is and, and that’s for anyone, right? I mean, I don’t say this to be fatalistic about it, but your last play could be your next, your next.
Nestor Aparicio 42:39
I thought Justice Hill was dead three weeks ago. I mean, I mean that, like, I, I got up and walked away. I’m like, I don’t even want to see what happens next. So the body’s not moving, you know, but, but just,
Luke Jones 42:49
8
but just to bring it and, you know, I don’t want to veer too much into that part of it. But, you know, at this point in time, what means more for Lamar Jackson being a three time MVP or being a Super Bowl winner. And you know whether you get a third MVP or not, you know he’s going to have some other years where I’m sure he’s going to be firmly in the mix, but because that’s just who he’s been every every time he’s healthy, he’s there, he’s in that
Nestor Aparicio 43:14
discussion. Read his stats off again and tell me if, in any flat universe, if Johnny Unitas came back, read his stats off again.
Luke Jones 43:24
Lamars, oh, let me, I had him in front of me, and now I don’t okay. So this year, 4172 passing yards, 41 touchdowns, four interceptions. These one touchdowns, four interceptions. Yeah, I mean a 10 to one intercept, touchdown, interception ratio. That’s, that’s absurd. I mean, even in this day and age, back in the day, I mean, Johnny used era, if you had more touchdowns and interceptions, even if it was 10 to nine, you were a good quarterback, because teams could, you know, defenses could Mug your receivers downfield and everything. So in inherently, it was a different game that way. But he’s just been so extraordinarily efficient and so productive.
Nestor Aparicio 44:05
Is there anybody in the history of the game? It’s thrown 41 touchdowns and four interceptions and 4000 yards just that’s that alone. Is there 900 rushing yards? Still?
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Luke Jones 44:13
No, but I’m just saying that no, but I’m just saying you at but that’s part, but that’s that’s why I look at this and say, Look, Josh Allen’s had an outstanding season,
Nestor Aparicio 44:23
but dude, this is like the back of Ron guidry’s card, and seen he was 23 one year. You know what I mean? Like, when I’m thinking of things 41 and four as a ratio, and 4000 yards for and the rushing like, and then I’d say, Well, what did the team do? They won their division. They lost a couple of games. They shouldn’t. Their defense was lousy. I understand that we were making a case for Joe burrow five minutes ago in his deep because his defense is lousy, right? Like, I don’t know dude. Like, I’m not for being the most anti Lamar guy, the Lamar hater that I am. I can’t make a case that Josh Allen has had a better season than Lamar Jackson. I really can’t. Yeah, and again, especially though I had to head Lamar won the game. You know what? I’m sure now next week’s a whole different thing. I got to get yours. But
Luke Jones 45:08
yeah, first player in NFL history, I have it sitting in I was 99% sure, but yes, first player in NFL history to have 40 passing touchdowns and fewer than five interceptions in the season. All right, so
Nestor Aparicio 45:20
8
like, Stop, this looks like an eight jersey to curio wellness jersey. Are we gonna break? We’re gonna talk about the other games. The Orioles signed a pitcher. Did you hear about that?
Luke Jones 45:31
Luke, I did. Who’s my age?
Nestor Aparicio 45:37
I remember when you were young. I remember we were all young. It is a playoff week around here, the Maryland lottery, sending me out of the road. I want to thank Gigi, causing my favorite realtor, for sending me a triple A three, triple Tripler ticket. This is like a real ticket that a friend of mine sent me as a gift. So I when I say gifting, as long as they’re of legal age, gifting is good. I have one last ravens ticket, the Maryland crab cake tours presented by the Maryland we’re getting it back out on the road. Lips grew. Road, libs grill in Bel Air. Oh, the weather outside. I’m just checking the weather. I you know we’re supposed to do this. Is why it’s problematic to plan anything in January in this part of the hemisphere, including football games. On Saturday night, Luke will be back and forth. We think the Owings Mills, we’re going to be here at am 1570 I promise you that our Listen Live is working, our audio vaults working, and everything at wnsta in 1570 Towson, Baltimore is screaming a festive us, for the rest of us in the playoffs, and let’s get that Super Bowl. It’s Baltimore positive. It’s January. Stay with us. You.
