Darting off to the swamps of Jersey: What we think of John Harbaugh heading to make Giants stand tall again

Big Blue was always the expected destination for John Harbaugh and he quickly took the first seat in a wild round of NFL head coach hiring that began with the New York Giants looking to fumigate the Meadowlands and get quarterback Jackson Dart championship ready. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Broadway lights and the big job – and $100 million expectations – that will come in The Big Apple for Harbs.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed John Harbaugh’s new role as head coach of the New York Giants. Harbaugh, who received a $100 million deal, is seen as a strong fit due to the Giants’ young quarterback, Daniel Jones, and the team’s potential. They contrasted the Giants’ situation with other teams like the Browns and Steelers, noting the Giants’ better roster and legacy. Nestor and Luke debated Harbaugh’s coaching style, his relationship with players, and the impact of his departure on the Ravens. They also touched on the potential for Harbaugh to succeed in New York and the implications for the Ravens’ future.

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John Harbaugh’s Opportunity with the New York Giants

• Nestor Aparicio discusses the unexpected nature of John Harbaugh taking the New York Giants job, mentioning his initial thoughts on Harbaugh’s potential interest in other jobs like the Packers or Browns.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the appeal of the Giants job, highlighting the young quarterback, Daniel Jones, and the potential for a fresh start in New York.
• Luke Jones mentions the immediate reaction to Harbaugh’s dismissal and the strong interest from the Giants, citing Ian O’Connor’s tweets and the media’s coverage.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the challenges of other coaching jobs, such as the Browns, Steelers, and Titans, and how the Giants’ young quarterback, Jackson Dart, could be a selling point for Harbaugh.

Giants’ Recent Performance and Coaching History

• Nestor and Luke reflect on the Giants’ recent performance, noting their poor records since 2016 and the lack of success under various coaches.
• Luke highlights the Giants’ recent coaching history, mentioning Ben McAdoo, Pat Shurmur, Joe Judge, and the current interim coach, Todd Bowles.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for Harbaugh to bring stability and success to the Giants, comparing it to the impact of Andy Reid in Kansas City.
• The conversation touches on the Giants’ legacy and the potential for Harbaugh to elevate the team’s performance and reputation.

John Harbaugh’s Coaching Style and Legacy

• Nestor and Luke discuss Harbaugh’s coaching style, noting his ability to manage the big picture and his success as a special teams coordinator.
• Luke defends Harbaugh against claims of losing the locker room, pointing to the team’s performance in the final game of the season.
• Nestor shares his perspective on Harbaugh’s relationship with players and the media, noting the importance of trust and communication.
• The conversation explores Harbaugh’s legacy, including his success with Lamar Jackson and the challenges of managing a talented but sometimes fractious team.

Harbaugh’s Transition to the Giants and Expectations

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential challenges Harbaugh will face in New York, including the media scrutiny and the high expectations from fans.
• Luke highlights the importance of Harbaugh’s ability to handle the press and the need for him to build a strong relationship with the Giants’ front office.
• Nestor and Luke reflect on the impact of Harbaugh’s age and experience on his coaching approach and the potential for him to adapt to a new environment.
• The conversation concludes with a discussion on the potential for Harbaugh to succeed in New York and the factors that will influence his success.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

John Harbaugh, New York Giants, coaching job, quarterback, Lamar Jackson, Daniel Jones, Steve Bisciotti, Mike Tomlin, NFL, coaching legacy, team performance, media relations, coaching transition, franchise quarterback, coaching strategy.

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SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W n s t, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. We are positively getting into a divisional weekend. We only get seven football games left here. We’ve had an ownership Press Conference in Baltimore this week. We have had breaking news on the W n s t, Baltimore, positive tech service brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy. And, you know, I didn’t really think John was going to take the Atlanta job or the Nashville job. I thought the Packers thing was intriguing. I thought the Browns offered him ownership and gave him a piece of the stadium that, you know, a couple of these franchises that were out there, Luke, they had more than just a football job, and John doesn’t aspire to that. John done more Ozzie’s job. John doesn’t want to be the John’s a ball coach, right? So like this giants opportunity, and I’m wearing my Raskin global New York Giants green over top of the Tennessee Titan. I just trying to stay warm. It’s cold as hell. You’re wearing your pizza John’s hat. My wife’s like, I want pizza this week, and I’m like, not on Monday. John Harbaugh, 100 million bucks. He’ll run off and start spreading the news.

Luke Jones  01:18

He’s a giant, how about that? Huh? Yeah, giant opportunity for John Harbaugh. I mean, let the puns begin. What the New York Post and all the clever headline writers in New York City, but after about the first 24 to 48 hours following Harbaugh’s dismissal from the ravens, it kind of felt like the Giants were the leader in the clubhouse all along. I know the likes of Ian O’Connor were following that and tweeting about it a lot, and seemed to be very plugged in in terms of the giants pursuit of horrible and as we’ve kind of pointed out. And look, I My immediate reaction to John Harbaugh being fired in terms of what would happen for him. I I joked about the Cleveland Browns. I mentioned that the Cleveland Browns were his favorite team growing up, but it’s not a whole lot of appeal, other than, if you were a Browns fan growing up, to go coach the Cleveland Browns, they don’t have a quarterback, and that was kind of the common theme of all these other jobs. I mean, even Pittsburgh, and you know, I know you talked about how good the Steelers job is, they don’t have a quarterback, and they’re an older roster, right? I mean, of all these teams. And as we pointed out, unless you’re talking about a team like the ravens, where it’s very unique that a job like that becomes available with a franchise quarterback who is still somewhere in his prime, whether you think it’s the middle of it, the latter, latter portion of it, whatever, he’s 29 years old, most of these jobs have warts. Most of these jobs come open because teams are not successful. I mean, even the ravens, because they were eight nine, even if that’s not typically the kind of record that you think of, that gets a head coach fired for the Ravens it was. So you look at this, and you look at what would be appealing to John Harbaugh in terms of Yes, money and perks and flexibility and financial wherewithal to hire a good staff and all those things that are going to be important anywhere but you did look at the fact that the Giants have a young quarterback. They have a young quarterback in Jackson Dart who showed some flashes and some impressive things in his rookie year. Now I’ll point out, after years of you and I sparring over the idea of Lamar Jackson quote running into linebackers. Jackson Dart did way too much of that as a rookie, like genuinely, if you watched him play, you know, had a concussion, was constantly checked for concussions, but he’s talented, and I thought,

Nestor Aparicio  03:40

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by the way, say Lamar runs in the linebacker. Lamar avoids linebackers. They run into him in the linebacker. So, like, that’s a different

Luke Jones  03:50

Yeah, needs to slide. He needs to run out of bounds. We saw the Thursday night game against the Patriots where he got completely lit up, and that was what I think that was right after he’d come back from a concussion. But Jackson darts talented. And I think if you’re John Harbaugh, and you looked at the teams that were linked to him, the strong, you know, being linked to him in the strongest fashion. It was the Giants. It was Atlanta, which there are options there. I mean, Michael pennix, they drafted in the top 10, and it was a first round pick, and but it’s coming off of another knee injury, going back to multiple knee injuries, going back to his college days, and Kirk Cousins, which not saying the Falcons can’t win games with Kirk Cousins, but there’s very clearly a ceiling there. And the Titans, even if you love cam Ward, is there as much around him, at least with the Giants, you can say, Okay, you have cam scatterbot, who seems like he could be a hardball guy in terms of a physical running back, you know, hard nosed, all of that. They have Malik neighbors who, albeit, will be coming back from a knee injury, but one of the more talented young wide receivers in the NFL. And you know, they, they have some pieces on the defensive side. Out of the ball. Now, they lost a lot of games, the giant stink. They’re gonna have a good draft pick all that. But of all those teams, that’s why Miami never really felt other than the Stephen Ross connection and the weather never really felt appealing. Because you look at their cap situation and their lack of a quarterback, and the fact that you know, where are they going to pick to be able to be able to get a quarterback, and some of these other jobs where they’re just point blank, wasn’t a quarterback. And one of the big reasons why a job comes open, I think the Giants made a lot of sense. You know, they’re a blue blood organization in terms of legacy, even though they have not been very good at all for quite a long time.

Nestor Aparicio  05:41

They only have to crawl to be better than the Redskins, or, excuse me, the commanders and the Cowboys at this point, right? Like it’s not, it’s not a Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em division at this moment. And the Eagles are perceived to be whatever they are. They just fired our offense coordinator better. But boy, it’s just so many coaching jobs, right? And this is the first, this is the first one that’s going to, like, push, start pushing things over as to where the Steelers are going and the Ravens are going and, like, all these other things. Because John was the golden child, at least for a week, and he called his shot right, like, literally. You know, you had more to say. So keep going, because I’m going to take us down a whole different lane with hardball.

Luke Jones  06:23

Well, I mean, I think you just look at the Giants. I mean, go back to 2016 when, I guess Ben McAdoo was their head coach at that point in time, they were 11 and five. That’s when Odell Beckham was still, you know, legitimately Not, not a reputation, or just a name, like he was in Baltimore and some of his later stops in his career, but 2016 they were 11 and five since 2016 so we’re talking a decade their records, three and 13, five and 11, four and 12, six and 10, four and 13, nine and seven. You know, they did that under table, and they made the playoffs. Lost in the divisional round, six and 11, three and 14, four and 13, the bar for him to

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Nestor Aparicio  07:04

have quarterback when they made the playoffs with table that would have been Daniel Jones, okay, I’m just trying to think like, and listen, table was a guy that the Ravens might have hired had they fired har ball in that moment a couple of five, you know. And any thought of at

Luke Jones  07:19

any great work with did great work in Buffalo. I mean, highly thought of. And I mean, that was, you know, until this past year in Indianapolis, you know, obviously, before the the Achilles injury, Daniel Jones, I mean, that that was kind of the best he looked at any point. You know, he had a solid year. I think he had a 92.5 QB rating, you know, didn’t have a ton of touchdowns. Didn’t have a ton of touchdown passes, but was efficient and gave them a chance to win so but point is, looking back at the Giants over the last 10 years, I mean, they’ve been way closer to being the Cleveland Browns than what you would have perceived the giants to be under Tom Coughlin, or certainly under Parcells, or any other period of time where they’ve had a little more success, so, but

Nestor Aparicio  08:04

they also haven’t brought in a retread or a Super Bowl champion, or they didn’t bring Sean Payton back. They didn’t, you know, they didn’t. They went with guys who failed and, and let’s be honest. And I, you know, Dude, I got so many directions I can take this because I’ve been, you know, fighting with people on the internet, you know, whatever. But as time goes on, and I remember Kevin Byrne saying this to me at the turn of the century, when Phil savage left, and it was like, dude, is Phil savage. The genius here is Phil Savage, the one you’re going to keep and have here and have Ozzy be there, because, you know, Ozzy was always perceived as being old. You pointed out already, Ozzy’s not nearly as old as he walks. You know what I mean, like, because of the football thing and the knees and like all of that. But Kevin Byrne said to me, this is art’s thoughts. By the way, art was still there was there’s Steve’s money was in, but Steve wasn’t. It wasn’t Steve’s decision at all. It was, it was, it was art and David and David and probably Brian, once Brian got here, because Brian didn’t like Phil, you know. I mean, like, like, you know, just flat out because Phil drafted Chris Redmond and pissed Brian off, like, you know what I mean? Like, like, literally, um, and we talk about the divide between scouting and coaching and how that can be, can be very real. Yeah, that could be very, very real, um, and who’s got control and who doesn’t. And I think no better example of that than Steve bishad, who was on stage shouting out Ozzie Newsome twice during the presser, while Eric Decosta looked like he wanted to crawl into the table for most of the time I saw him. I mean, the camera wasn’t always on him, but he looked really uncomfortable to me, because he’s next and Ozzy, I mean to me, Ozzy like, I don’t say major. On, but he made Brian, he made John, he made Ted. He drafted Ray Lou, I mean Ozzy to me, Lamar. I mean, still sure, Ozzy’s the genius in the building, until proven otherwise. And he’s still there. Thank God for Steve, and he still loves football. And he and Eric are, you know, blood brothers, and, like, still there every day. They still have that going on, and that’s the most attractive thing they have for any veteran person, especially who knows better, who’s been in some bad places, like Jim Schwartz or like Vance Joseph, or like all these retract guys we talk about have been places. I heard naggy talked about taking too much control, and they’ve all learned lessons through this, I really wonder what John’s lesson is in all of this, in regard to Ozzy’s wisdom and Eric’s wisdom, and what he learned down the hallway, what his brother knows, what his father knows, and what he now knows that he didn’t know before, about the power but he’s going to have a much easier job in a lot of ways there For for the near short future, make more money less stress. If you go six and 11 next year, he just does, and it’s going to be okay, as long as things are getting better and he’s having a good time and his wife’s having a good time, and because he’s got all the money in the world. And much like all of these cats, I know how much money you have, you know how much money I have. We don’t have much, but these are miserable people when they come forth right like, especially right now with how much work and this and that, it all feels so burdensome and like, but Harbaugh is going to a place now where, like, Mr. Harbaugh is going to wear a suit. He’s going to walk in every Giants fan is going to love him. They’re going to be chanting his name when they’re making draft picks in eight weeks, as opposed to what the hell this was when he left right. Same thing for Andy Reid going out to the friendly heart of the Midwest, and he’ll get that advice. He’s gotten all of that wisdom, but the football’s got to work. And I’m not, and like you and I are going to get, like, real brass tacks on whether it’s going to work. And what we really think of John, like, really think of John at 63 where he is, because, I tell you what, dude I didn’t like be shot his energy a bit. I mean, like in the aftermath of the guy I met 20 years ago, and what that guy was selling, and what that guy brought in, and what that guy did interviewing har ball and wanted for the like, That guy’s gone. He’s a different cat. Hardball is a different you’re different cat. I mean, we’re all different cats. But Harbaugh’s going into this situation with a whole different perspective. Pocketbook, power structure, Halo crown for now, turns into thorns quickly. Ask Brian Dabel, ask all those guys, but especially in New York, and that’s the part that chews me up a little bit with him is sort of like that’s if anybody asked me about John Harbaugh, the first thing I’d say is he’s paranoid, which leads to dishonesty, and I don’t trust him. But all that being said, the paranoia the New York the largeness of it. I don’t know when it gets heavy, when this kid can’t play, or it gets light if he can, you know. And I don’t know if John’s a quarterback whisperer or not, and the kid runs in the linebackers, as you pointed out, which are really stupid at bad habit, bad bad habit, and tough guy and all that. And Mormon, yeah, I’ve done, I don’t know much about Jackson Dart, but, like, I looked, did a little more looking him up.

Luke Jones  13:25

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He’s talented. I mean, like, he’s talented, but one, he’s not finished developing. So I think it’s going to be, I mean, as has always been the case for John Harbaugh over 18 years, it’s going to be incredibly important, nearly as good a process Koco or like, you know, like the other guys, he’s had to me, um, well, I mean, sure, yeah, I’m not, you know, he wasn’t the number one

Nestor Aparicio  13:51

overall, you know, Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, sure, and all these remnants of a 13 and three team that Brian left behind, and Steve just didn’t like Brian. And more the dude, the more I see Steve getting loose with y’all, you know, no wonder that. I mean, I’d even say to Brian all these years later, I’m like, dude, like, no, the guy that came up to me charging it to in the morning, telling me to stay away from Jim Harbaugh, not John, Jim and Jack and Jackie and like, That guy, 17 years later, with $5 billion more than that night, like har ball, it has improved his life dramatically, as Steve promised earlier this week. It’s one thing he certainly said that was true, because he loved John Harbaugh. You know, John could have left here whenever he wanted, said in the middle of the night when Steve called him, you know, Steve, I’m gonna go work for somebody else. I’ve got, you know what I mean, like, John never did that. John never, and I’ll tell you this man, John always had the team ready to play, but John always had the most talent. And that’s like, I started comparing him to Tomlin. And. Records, and I’m like John Harbaugh, almost every year, had more talent than Mike Tomlin, even, because roethlisberg was considered old at the time, maybe not, no, 809, 10. But once the Heinz wards got away and Tomlin had to manage the animal farm up there with Antonio Brown and a bunch of knuckleheads, and Roethlisberger being old and broken down, and then really having nothing since Roethlisberger left, and still beating his ass twice on the way out the door. I don’t know dude harp to me. Tomlin is a better ball coach in a lot of ways, and that would speak to the way he relates to players and media and humans, and not being a fraud and a phony in in having five faces. But the hardball thing for me is, I don’t know where he’s getting his talent up there, and I don’t know how long the media thing will last, but I know the paranoia will go with him, and he’s going to have, John’s going to have a nice ride there for a little while without having to win. And that’s, you know, it’s amazing. He just improved his life a whole lot. He won’t look nearly as tired as maybe he looked the last time you saw him in Pittsburgh. Well at

Luke Jones  16:05

first, but I agree, there will be a honeymoon. We’ll see about Jackson Dart. We’ll see about some of their other young, talented players. I mean, the Giants have more talent than some of the other teams that fit into their record, you know, kind of category, as far as being amongst the very worst in the NFL, like, for example, I didn’t I’d prefer the Giants roster to the Raiders, for example, but

Nestor Aparicio  16:32

that decided took a one overall, and he didn’t want him. He said, Now, take this guy instead, right?

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Luke Jones  16:37

Well, and I don’t know how much of it was that, and how much of it was the organization and the owners nuts and what’s around them, right? So let’s go live in New York. It’s not Wellington mera, but it’s still the it’s still the Mara family, right? So you know, he must like Jackson Dart a lot. He must feel a certain way about Joe Shane, their GM, who has done some good things and some things that have not been perceived so well, right? So there’s always that there’s going to be a honeymoon there, in the sense that I will

Nestor Aparicio  17:09

survive him now that he’s in, oh, he doesn’t like him. Get him out of here, right? Yeah. And it won’t take long for har ball to add $100 million to extract whatever he wants, you know, including media members, apparently, too. We’ll see how that goes in New York. When he says, I don’t want that guy in my you know, I don’t want that guy in my press conference, let me just, Hey man, you know, as God is my witness.

Luke Jones  17:34

Okay, I thought you’re gonna finish. Oh,

Nestor Aparicio  17:36

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I mean, just like, I’m just thinking about the bigness of the job up there when I think he’s throwing red flags that don’t work, yeah, and all of the things that never got better here, right? Even though Steve coached him up, led him up, even though he had Eric around him, John was always the biggest piece in the room. And it was John, come on, dude, it was John’s building. Like, literally, by the end, John ran everybody ragged, including me and you and Jameson and Jeff Sri Beck and everybody else that was loved in the media. And I think he ran Lamar ragged. I think he ran players ragged to some degree. It was all worn out. And who came to his defense here? Did anybody come running out saying, Don’t fire him like nobody, and he’s going to walk in there and have a he’s got a really good situation. That’s all I and but the power thing and the paranoia thing, if anybody from New York asked me, I’d say that’s who he is and what it’s going to become. And I don’t know how that works. I mean, you know what I mean, I will find out. I mean, I know how it worked. Here. It worked long enough for him to keep his job, because he figured Lamar out early on, and then couldn’t figure it out anymore. And I, I think that’s a huge part of this is him saying, not him saying, like, he quit the job, but he, he got himself fired. You know what I mean, like to some degree, and the Lamar thing sits in the middle of it for me, because I know more, and so do you. And like the Lamar thing and the Jackson Dart thing, I find it fascinating that of all the places he could land, including on his ass at home, making $20 million to stay home like his boss told him to. And I know you got some points on that as well, he decided to jump in here get the money because he really thinks this kid’s bringing a parade to Broadway in the next three or four years, or he would not have taken that. I agree with that. I also think he’s not going to get late night calls from a crazed owner. You know, we saw on the podium here, the absentee. I mean, he’s going to have full control in whatever way he envisions it, because I don’t think it was ever perfect here for him, right? It wasn’t perfect for him here.

Luke Jones  19:52

I mean, I think he had it pretty darn, pretty darn good here. I mean, okay, no, no, jobs perfect. No organization is going to be perfect. Perfect. But, I mean, it’s here 18 years he he got, he had two franchise quarterbacks. I mean, how many head coaches have that kind of a setup? I mean, Mike Tomlin, who was in Pittsburgh 19 years, still only had one franchise quarterback, right? And that was part of why they’ve fallen off in the last 10 years in terms of at least what their ceiling was, he regardless of their ability to continue to beat the ravens, which is something John has to own. But I think, I think from a media standpoint, I think we’ll do fine early on. I think back to the week of Super Bowl, 47 and how well John equipped himself and handled himself under those lights. I mean, we all remember John against Jim. Jim sitting there in his khakis and his sweatshirt and kind of looking like the the old high school jock that you remember, you know that you see 15 years later, and you say, Man, that guy hasn’t changed it on it, not saying that, just just how Jim appeared, right, not not his coaching acumen or anything like that. Whereas John’s in fancy, expensive suits looked very much the CEO of the organization, as far as handling the press conferences and things of that nature, and John was perceived very favorably. I mean, at that point in time, he wouldn’t say he was an unknown. I mean, the Ravens had been to a couple AFC championships prior to that year, in his first five seasons, but he wasn’t, you know, he wasn’t a household name that he’s the household name that he’s become, you know, over the last near nearly two decades now. So I think he’ll handle that part of it fine at first. I do think expectations with the Giants, despite it being New York, I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to lead them to a 12 and five division winning kind of finish in 2026 I think as long as they make progress, you know, if they win 789, games, which I don’t think is unreasonable, if some of their guys come back from injury. I mean, I mentioned scatterbo, I mentioned Malik. Neighbors are coming back from significant injuries, so that’s a factor. And you know, as you and I are talking in real time, I mean, the news is already broke that Todd monk, and the plan is for him to join pub ball in New York. So it’s going to be interesting to see how both of them do in a post Lamar Jackson way from there.

Nestor Aparicio  22:19

That was my question for you, and I’ll just throw this to you, because, I mean, I don’t, I don’t think I have anything relevant to add to it, but to you and you’ve been in a room with him more than I have lately, for sure, but I’ve been in a room with him enough. I’ve been in private rooms with a lot more than you’ve been, you know, I’ve had a lot more time just me and John hanging out alone, talking about ball and life and cancer and all that. Then you have, because you’re Sequent, you get press conference time. You don’t sit down with John when He comes in. And I don’t mean for some pie in the sky owner, that would look at him as I can put him on the mantle, and he fits the suit, and he’s Johnny Bravo, and he comes with a ring. He brings credibility. He brings, he brings, not the bull shot. He brings, I’m talking about, he really brings, what are his strengths? As you see it, like when he comes in, you just mentioned the one, which is why I stopped you, which is, I’m going to have great coordinators. I’m going to get out of their way. I’m going to let you know my my Baker’s bake, and my chef, Chef, and I’m just going to be coming into the kitchen and tasting the food like, literally, that’s kind of sort of what he’s been here for 18 years. He never developed an offense or a scheme that had anything to do with Joe Flacco or the running game, or, you know, any of that. He never developed a defensive scheme was always Rex’s way, or it was winks way, or was whatever way was the way that, you know, his Michigan way, pretty much it was the way the Schembechler way was kind of sort of the thing he was always trying to work from, which is his dad’s way, really, of playing defense, towards the hardball way, right? But I don’t know that he spawned anybody that’s going to the Hall of Fame, other than the kid in Seattle. That might be the guy here who took the week off. We’ll see how he does on Saturday night. But I just from har ball speak to that. 63 hadn’t won this lately, had won that lately, hadn’t picked like had some failed coordinators. We’re with the red flag, you know, has had players, enough players say that they they burn up with him, or, you know, mutiny and, like all of that other stuff, give me the hardball resume as you see it, when somebody from New York calls you and says, Tell me about John Harbaugh and his strengths as a coach and a leader.

Luke Jones  24:39

Well, I mean, he’s a CEO. We know that. I mean, to your point, he wasn’t an expert on either side of the ball, but I think that also can be, that also can be a plus, depending on the situation. I think John as a special teams coordinator, one of his earliest strengths, and I think he continued on with that. I. Is that you can kind of see the whole picture a little bit more, rather than getting lost in the weeds of being so focused on your area of expertise, right? I mean, as I’ve said to you, I mean, for as much talk as we we’ve had about, oh, well, you need to hire a brilliant offensive mind to pair with Lamar. And yeah, that’s that would be my preference, but that also comes with an understanding that that’s not the only part of the job, right? There’s still the other 52 players, there’s still the defense, there’s a special teams, so I think John’s always been really good from a big picture standpoint, in that way, I would say this, and it’s why I kind of rejected the notion that he, quote, lost the locker room. I mean, that’s such a broad term anyway. Look at what they did against Green Bay in week 17. Lamar was out. They knew that they were not in a good position at that point, because you weren’t expecting the Steelers to go into Cleveland and lose to the Browns the following day. It would have been very easy. That’s why I kind of reject the notion that he lost the locker room. Was there. Was there fatigue? Was there frustration?

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Nestor Aparicio  26:04

Everyone was frustrated. Losing the locker room happens when he’s out of the locker room. And media may hear this or may not, and Lord knows, I spent half my life in locker rooms before Chad steel threw me out, and half, more than half my life in baseball locker rooms before Greg Bader threw me out 20 years ago. Rumbling is real, and when it gets to the media in my you know when a guy would pull me up and say, things are messed up in here? And that happened plenty, plenty, plenty in my life. Sure, I can count. I can write a book. I can write 50 instances where an athlete pulled me up, or a coach pulled me up and said, you know, what’s it? What Preston’s writing in the paper ain’t right, what’s on the news and right? Like, let me straighten this out for you. And then I either trust that guy or I don’t. And with Brian Billick, who never lied to me, and Marvin Lewis who never lied to me, and Mike Nolan who never lied to me, and Rex Ryan who never lied to me, and like pet new never like Matt Cavanaugh, never lied to me. So, you know, I go through all of that, and I would just say for John and relationships and where it is, and coaching the the next thing he does. I hope, I hope he gets a softer thing there, because the rumbling when you say, lose the locker room, lose the locker room, is when the guys are in the locker saying he’s effed up. The coordinators effed up. That was a dumb decision. What the hell is he doing? Usually, usually, now that I’ve been thrown out, I’m sitting here watching it on TV, and I’m like, What the hell is he doing? Or I go to Twitter and they’re like, What the hell is he doing? Or you’re in the press box, and whoever’s next to you up there says, what’s that? Oh, God, John, you challenge. What’d you do? Is there any who talks to John? Why has he got his sock out in the red? Like, all the years we’ve had those and it never got some things never got better. Some things did get better. Lamar great quarterbacks and great defensive players making big plays. She makes everybody you know, Ed Reed made Brian Billick look smarter, even when Brian sink it down right. So I’ll give you all of that, but the notion that he’s going to just take over the locker room there, and everybody’s going to buy in, he’s going to get that there where you didn’t have this year, and losing the locker room is the things guys say to their wives when they get home about their coach and like, the feeling to me this year was it wasn’t big trust, Right? I mean, you’ve been around when there’s all that energy, and they swept Marshall, yonden, the old guys, into like i One in five begat that this year, I would say Lamar not being on the field and all the injuries. But I do think that Isaiah likely yelling at people on the way out how screwed up the coaches are, whether Isaiah likely screwed up or not. He dropped the ball too and but that finger pointing part of it very unharball. He hadn’t. He didn’t have a lot of that going on here, because when you’re winning, you don’t get a lot of that. But it didn’t get tamped down this year. That’s all I mean. And I think as he’s gotten older and more out of touch and more rich, and more away from even the quarterback, and more away from all of it. I think he lost his lane a little bit this year, from where I could see it on the outside, you’re on the inside. And I think losing the locker room just means guys just don’t, don’t believe anymore. And I winning in Green Bay, and I’ll give you all of that, but there was just a lot of grumbling this year.

Luke Jones  29:42

And of course there was, I mean, I mean, I don’t think anything you’re saying is like rocket science. I mean, I think everyone was frustrated. Players are pissed, coaches are piss. They’re pissed at each other, right? I mean, what? Whether it’s like over the top, I’m not saying guys are getting in fist fights, but, but he

Nestor Aparicio  29:56

hasn’t had to put that kind of fire out over it. But I guess I. Guys in the locker room that could put it out for him, is my point, right?

Luke Jones  30:03

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I mean, I get, I suppose. I mean, they just, they didn’t play well, you know? I The semantics. I just think losing the locker room is a very broad term. And my thought over the years, when someone loses the locker room is that guys have completely nailed it in and they didn’t mail it in against Green Bay,

Nestor Aparicio  30:18

fair enough. You know, they should have won, but, but my

Luke Jones  30:21

point is, with that, to me, a mailed in like, when you’ve completely lost your locker room, they go they go to Green Bay, and Lamar is hurt, and they lose by three touchdowns, and it’s listless, and you see definitively that it’s over, regardless semantics. Right at the end of the day, it’s obvious.

Nestor Aparicio  30:37

Those guys practiced hard and went on to the field.

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Luke Jones  30:40

It’s obvious, but it’s obviously, or, you know, it was obvious. There was a lot of frustration. There’s no question about that. I’m not, I’m not sitting here trying to defend John that like he did a great job in in 2025 no one did a great job in 20

Nestor Aparicio  30:52

that would be my point of where it is when he walked a new gig as a 63 year old coach who sort of is moving in a way that a lot a lot of 63 year old coaches, like, is he going to find that second blood there in that way that he walked into my radio station in 2008 is he ready to hit New York and had the energy that Ben Johnson had in Chicago? That’s all I’m throwing out.

Luke Jones  31:17

He he’s going to bring a legitimacy, right? I mean, he has a resume. He’s a Super Bowl winning coach, regardless of what that’s looked like over the last six or seven years, in terms of great regular seasons and under achievement with a two time MVP quarterback in January and the blown leads, which bashadi talked about, he will bring in a legitimacy. He will have an energy to him that will play in a different market better than it has. You know the idea of attacking the day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind, even though people are familiar with that because they’ve heard John and Jim say that

Nestor Aparicio  31:53

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him whipping that out for a fresh audience, and that’s fun for

Luke Jones  31:56

Right, right? Sure that I think, yeah, he’s gonna feel rejuvenated. He’s gonna walk out

Nestor Aparicio  32:01

all the new media is there gonna be ready to crown him? And, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s gonna be there to

Luke Jones  32:07

go back to answer your point. I can’t. I alluded to this with the what happened with the Packers. He’s gonna raise the floor there, if there’s one thing you can say about John Harbaugh, and that is still true, even in the latter years where they weren’t reaching their full potential, necessarily, not necessarily they weren’t. Because when you’re the number one seed two different times, and you only net one AFC title game out of that, let alone not not being able, not being able to get to the Super Bowl, he’s still a very high floor kind of coach. I think back to 2021 when Lamar got hurt. Yes, they lost those games down the stretch. But you go and look at how they played in those games. I mean, they lost how many of those were by one score. Tyler Huntley, first time he you have a guy that’s a couple years, you know, a year removed from being an undrafted free agent, he’s suddenly your starting quarterback, and he’s playing, and you’re, you’re still competing. They lost, I’m not gonna, you know, they lost, what, six in a row, or whatever it was. At the same time, it wasn’t six in a row in the sense of like, you’re losing by three or four touchdowns. You know, you go back to some other years where injuries piled up. They still competed. So I think he’s, I still think he brings a high floor. I think the giants are going to be better, but the question is going to be, how good are they going to be? Because the skeptic, and I just, you know, I’ve seen a couple clips of various, you know, national radio shows and talking heads. And while there’s so much over this, over the moon, stars in your eyes. Kind of talk about John Harbaugh killing it at his next play, next stop. There’s also a lot of people that are pointing out that, like, this isn’t jimmy johnson going to the dolphins. You know, this isn’t, you know, this isn’t Parcells, right where you’re talking about guys who won multiple Super Bowls, and in the case of John, I mean, that Super Bowl’s old at this point that that that ring is got dust on it, right? That trophy has dust on it. It’s tarnished at this point in time because it’s been 13 years. And the thought, you know, the biggest, you know, the biggest argument against John is going to be, well, if you couldn’t win with the two time MVP at quarterback. What are you going to be able to do with Jackson Dart? Right? So I think there’s that part of it. So I think he’s he raised the floor there, and I think it’ll go well, at least for a time. I don’t think it certainly helps that over the last decade, the Giants have been absolutely woeful. But before, you know, before we wrap this, because I don’t have too much else to say about John. I mean, we’re going to find out, right? We’re going to see gonna see how they draft. Gonna see how he works with Joe Shane, and see what else they can do to improve that roster they need to draft. Well, all those things, the same things we’re gonna be talking about with the Ravens in terms of what they need to do to get better, to bounce back from eight and nine and in addition to higher. A good coach and a good coordinator on either side of the ball. But one thing that you and I didn’t have a chance to talk much of, we may have mentioned it in passing, but certainly didn’t give it much more than I mentioned, is I thought one of the more interesting elements of Steve bashati press conference earlier in the week was how adamant he sounded about wishing that John was taken a year off, to the point where he flat out said, Look, John taking a job elsewhere. That’s going to offset the money. Like, I mean, Steve’s gonna end up not paying John anything. I mean the Giants, presumably. I mean, the early reporting that’s out there, we don’t have official figures, he’s gonna be making more with the Giants than he was gonna make over the next three years with the Raven. So Steve’s gonna get out of that, you know, scot free, if it’s not a five year, $100 million deal, it feels like it’s somewhere in that name, very close. Yeah. I mean Brian Harlan. I mean, good enough job. I mean, maybe, maybe he doesn’t Eclipse Andy Reid. I think Andy’s, I think Andy’s at 20 million per year. Maybe it’s just a smidge below that, but it’s gonna be very close, if not. But I I thought, I thought it was interesting to hear Steve just say, you know, he’s 63 live life a little bit. He mentioned how his daughter, Allison’s in law school now. So he’s an empty Nestor with Ingrid. And the idea of, you know, go take a vacation in Europe for a month and a half. You know, go, go, go enjoy life for a little while. And I think there’s another element to that in addition to that. And look, regardless of whether it was time for him or not, or what you think of any head coach, good or bad, any those guys, they earn their money from the standpoint of, it’s a really hard, stressful life, especially in season as far as, I mean, the hours these guys put in, I will always have respect for coaches in that way and and, yes, it’s results driven. If you don’t win, you’re going to get fired. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s the job they understand that I heard Mike McDonald. In fact, it was a Sirius XM NFL Network radio was doing an interview with him, and he was asked about John he was asked about Tomlin. Because, of course, he of course, he, you know, old AFC North guy coached with John, coached against Tomlin, and he flat out, just said he’s like, look, that’s going to be my fate one day. And I just thought that was interesting to hear that from someone who, right now, is perceived to be the top, you know, right there with, you know, amongst guys that haven’t won Super Bowls yet, but he’s right there, as far as you know, the hot commodity, as far as how he’s perceived. I mean, his team’s the number one seed coming off the buy all that. But to hear Mike McDonald say, like one, he has all the respect in the world for Harper and Tomlin, but also to just very matter of, matter of fact, we say, yeah, that’s going to be me one day. I mean, these guys know that’s the job. I mean, for every coach who wins and rides off. I mean, Tomlin, to his credit, he can’t, he was able to go out on his own terms, kind of, sort of right. I mean, I think it’s was very much the build up of disenchantment in Pittsburgh and feeling underappreciated and everything that’s gone on there in recent years, and fans being frustrated, they’re just like in Baltimore. But to hear Mike McDonald say say that just again, kind of made me look at what Steve said and think, you know, you do wonder if John would have been better served taking a year off, relax, decompress, do some media. Stay, stay well connected to the game in that way, and also just some reflection. You know, part of the frustration of what’s happened with the Ravens in recent years is how confounding it’s been at times, right? The idea that and look, har ball’s got to own his part of it. But no one’s naive enough to I would hope no one’s naive enough to think that the Raven shortcomings are 100% John Harbaugh’s fault. I will wholeheartedly reject that. He didn’t coach Mark Andrews to fumble the ball or drop the ball. He didn’t coach zay flowers to fumble the ball going across the goal line. He wasn’t coaching Lamar Jackson to play at less than an MVP level in January, after playing like the best quarterback in the universe through September, or from September through December, right there. There’s more to that. And I’m not saying John, you know, like gets off scot free. Of course not. You know, he lost his job. But I do think there was something to the idea of reflecting and learning about yourself a little bit, stepping back doing self scouting, which coaches always talk about during the bye week every year and Okay, taking a year off. Would that have meant that He’s the hottest commodity on the market next year, that seven teams are after him, maybe not, but I guarantee at least two or three would have been after him, and that’s all you need, right? You need two teams to create a market and a bidding war for your services. So I do wonder, and it’ll be fascinating to see, because it’s very apparent, barring something strange, you know, after you and I. Wrap this up, that looks like Mike Tomlin has taken a year off. It very much feels that way. I mean, there’s been reporting that teams have reached out and been told that, no, he’s taken 2026 off. Now, whether that means he comes back in 2027 or this turns into Bill cower, where we talked about cower coming back to coaching for what about a decade, and meanwhile, he’s just collecting checks from CBS and enjoying life, and God bless them, that’s great. I mean, he’s good at what he does has been for a long time and way less stress. He’d be the first to tell you. So I do, but I do find it interesting that Steve was so adamant and flat out saying, like, look, I’m perfectly content and happy and grateful for all you’ve done to the point where I’d be completely fine with giving you a $17 million vacation for 2026 and then you jump into the pool next year. I mean, I think, you know, he even told John that the way it sounded. So I do wonder if I never thought John would take the year off, not just many jobs, not with attractive jobs either. You know what I mean, yeah. I mean, there’s always an attractive job, sure, but the Baltimore, Pittsburgh thing, well, you know that that well, but the bad order itself is kind of a weird, yeah, it is, but, but obviously Baltimore is not an option for him. Well, the cycle

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Nestor Aparicio  41:13

next year would be Kansas City. You know, there are places where,

Luke Jones  41:18

I mean, like, let’s be clear. I mean, this is not that I in any way would push back on the merit of har ball, or even Tomlin, for that matter, being let go. You know, if the Steelers had actually let Tomlin go, rather than him walking away. But I mean, we’ve talked about the standard of coaching. I mean, some of these coaches that walk into a lousy situation, and as expected, they’re lousy, and then they’re gone, right? I mean, that’s, you know, one of the things that bashati talked about, you and I talked about that in a previous segment, talking about how open he sounded to the idea not that that’s what they’re going to do, ultimately, but open to the idea of looking at someone like a Robert Sala, for example, and saying, Man, that guy was very much a hot commodity. He goes to the Jets. He never has a quarterback situation that. I mean, maybe if Aaron Rodgers never tears his Achilles his first game with the Jets, maybe that year goes differently. But they never got the quarterback right, and it’s the Jets. What did you really expect? So does that suddenly mean that Robert Sala, who, by the way, is doing a I think, has done a really good job. I mean, you look at much as we’ve talked about Matt abigay and the engine, Douglas

Nestor Aparicio  42:34

lost his job because it didn’t work there either, and Joe Douglas is the one that hired Robert Sala, right?

Luke Jones  42:39

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So sure, but you know, but you know, finishing a point on solid look at the injuries the 40 Niners defense has had, and that’s not a great defense, let me be clear. But they’re playing at they’re they’re giving their team a chance to win with the way they’re playing, right? Whereas, like the Ravens lost Matt abigay, and, you know, the pass rush just stunk this year. I mean, it’s just, there’s no other way to put it. But the point is, you know, with someone like a Robert Sala or Kevin Stefanski, or, you know, whoever you want to go through, right, the idea that you evaluate the situation they were in as well and say, All right, the record wasn’t very good. But, like, what do you expect it to be? Right? I mean, I’d say this much in defense of Pete Carroll, who I assume is never going to coach again, at least not as a head coach, but he went into the raiders and all right, I’ll admit I thought Gino Smith would be better than he was this year. But Did anyone for us? Did anyone at all think that the Raiders are going to be any good this year in that division, especially, no. So the idea that, and believe me, it went horribly. But the point is, you kind of look at some of these coaches, they’re DOA, if the expectation is you’re going to, you need to win in year one, they’re DOA. I mean, they have no chance. So I think the ravens are, you know, bashati saying that, at least acknowledge that, you know, some of these guys were considered to be geniuses five years ago, and they went into a situation that just didn’t have the quarterback, didn’t have the players, maybe didn’t have the GM, and then they were gone in a couple years. And it wasn’t really surprising. So I thought that was interesting. But you know, with John, I think he could have been well served to take a year off. I’m with you. I’m not surprised that that he did it. I think that the jock, the competitor in him, the HAR ball in him, that you know that their father has it, their entire family has, if you’ve ever, I mean, you can speak to that as well. I mean, the whole family is just wired that way, that he wasn’t going to take a year off. But I do wonder if everything that happened over these last five to six years, blown leads, January shortcomings, just not looking like the team in January that you were from September through December overall, this this year being the exception, which is why he was unemployed in. The sense that they just weren’t good in the regular season either. But I do wonder if some self scouting, some self reflection, talking to some other coaches, take getting some input, if that would have served him well to jump into it next year. But hey, teams are beating down your door and telling you how much they want you, and they’re giving you all the money and whatever control, whatever perks, I mean, all that. Who am I to sit here and say, No, don’t do that. I just think it was interesting to hear Steve’s perspective on that and and in that way, I think that speaks to the relationship that they did have, in terms of, you know, Steve speaking as complimentary as he was about John, even after firing him a week earlier, and just saying he did sound like an older brother in that way, kind of like, Man, I kind of wish you’d just take it easy for a little while. We also

Nestor Aparicio  45:53

said, I don’t feel like I hurt John, and he didn’t hurt John at all. John’s got a job with a quarterback. He feels like he’s going to get along with with general, with the whole thing, see the next thing, and like all of that, and this will be his chance to go get himself to Canton. Luke can be found at Baltimore. Luke, if there’s any breaking news, it’s not John Harbaugh getting the Giants job, you’ll get it first in the wnst tech service. All brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy. Meanwhile, we got football games going on. We have a Super Bowl to win. We have a head coach to hire, and enough about the Giants in New York. I’m on to Owings Mills. We’re back for more Baltimore. Positive. Stay with us.