With the first news out of spring training in Sarasota a very bad report on the ace of last season Kyle Bradish, Luke Jones joins Nestor to discuss the UCL injury and the never-ending pitching concerns for Orioles general manager Mike Elias and where the team will turn before Opening Day.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
pitching, year, orioles, pitcher, bullpen, tommy john surgery, ucl, kyle, spring training, innings, works, corbin, day, baseball, batista, rodriguez, means, talking, burns, number
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are wn S T A and 5070 Tacit Baltimore and Baltimore positive, he’s still been offering lots and lots of our crabcake row a couple of Super Bowl we had over 70 pieces with charity, so many of them still making their way out to Baltimore positive and out to the audio vault and wherever you listen to podcasts, we certainly hope you’re setting your dials, we get ready for baseball, and certainly a draft and combine and all that and am 57 You could still set a place in your car when you’re driving around lots folks do that. We will be back out to in the Maryland crabcake tour again, with our friends at the lottery also with wind donation and Jiffy Lube. I do not have the latest dates, but we are working on some things with fade Lee’s in regard to baseball season and the Orioles and I am wearing my curio wellness, orange and black and representing Lucas. It’s football season really over I mean, we really gonna go into like a baseball thing here where there’s going to be news and good news and bad news and Lord knows it didn’t take long it’s spring training for the rotation. Yeah, I was with Dr. Steve. And he’s you know, trying to get into the baseball swing of things like we we can all say McNally Quasar Dobson, you know, we can all say that. Not everybody knows, you know, Bradish means Oh, does that mean Cramer’s the five, you know, like, so we’re going through this reengagement of the baseball community, but Dr. Steve, and I were like, Alright, so what’s the rotation? Now? I probably would be one. All right. So that that would probably make all right, that would make a Kyle to and that would make Grayson three, and which means, you know, I don’t know who knows. And so, all this happens. And then the first day of spring training, it’s like, Alright, number two pencil, you know, that’s baseball. Now, I didn’t love jokes. I
8Luke Jones 01:46
mean, it’s really every sport but more so than any other sport because of the fragility that is just the nature of pitching. Started spring training is always that hold my breath moment. And it’s not because someone actually gets hurt on the first day of spring training. It’s because these guys who at this point in time start ramping up in January you know, some guys late December depending on the start of spring training. But if you recall, the whole second half of last year, what were we talking about on the pitching side beyond just adding bullpen arms or adding Jack clarity? It was what the innings management right the workload of a Kyle Bradish a dean Kramer, Grayson Rodriguez these guys too, had all eclipsed career highs and endings. We talked about it with Felix Batista, even before he hurt his elbow in late August, you know how many innings the Orioles were relying on him to throw this is the science of all
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:43
of that when they when we you and I fight and the scientists come in and they’re like, met through till they got 180 innings and Palmer’s laughing at them right and Jim cots laughing at them, right? But I don’t. I mean, there is a point where the way these guys work and thrown curveballs when they’re 11 and pitching all summer when they’re 13 and 14 and being baseball pitchers from the time they’re nine years old. Their arms fall off when they’re 22, Keegan Aiken, and just all these names of like all 15 years of prospects for the Orioles it felt like injuries always got Dylan Bundy before you know it ever got there. And I worry about that with means rod reaches now with the latest which is really this is this heartening because like you’re sort of waiting for his arm to fall off, right? Like you’ve done this before. You’re like, well, he’s throwing a little bit but this isn’t gonna work in the same way. Felix Batista was playing patty cake back in September, right? Well, I
Luke Jones 03:38
mean, there are examples of guys that have a UCL sprain and ultimately don’t have to get Tommy John’s surgery. And you know, just in the same way that you mentioned two great names Jim Palmer and Jim Kaat. They had plenty of contemporaries who got hurt, and then you never heard from them again. Why? Because Tommy John surgery didn’t exist way back when and guys, pitchers have always gotten hurt. It’s just you forget about them. And you think about the big picture and why it
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:03
wasn’t named after Don Sutton or Jim cod or Bert Blyleven, or, you know, or Whitey Ford or Uber water like exactly right.
Luke Jones 04:10
Exactly, exactly. So, so it’s always been part of the game. But we also do know, in the modern day, how pitching the philosophy is max effort. You’ve heard me talk about that a lot. You’ve heard Jim Palmer talk about it a lot. It used to be for decades upon decades, pitchers pace themselves, right. So they were giving a certain percent effort. And yeah, they would refer back to it and throw it as hard as they can. A few times a game, but that’s not how pitching works today. So what that has meant and you know, to bring it back to the present, and more specifically, Kyle Bradish here, pitchers get hurt. And it’s part of the game and I just saw it again and I can’t remember the source but I think it was as of a few years ago Nestor I think it was a third of Major League pitchers had had Tommy John surgery At some point in time, whether you’re going all the way back to high school, the minor leagues, or some time during their major league career, I mean, that’s just, it’s part
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:07
of your let me fix it for you. Let me fix it for ya. But that $6 Million Man, you know, world right, literally right? It is,
Luke Jones 05:15
however, and because of that, because of how frequent it is, because of how prevalent it is, you’ll often hear someone say, when you hear about a situation like Kyle Bradish, feeling his elbow, you know, feeling something in his elbow and getting a diagnosis of a sprain, UCL. What do you hear people say, well get Tommy John surgery. Why wait, it’s inevitable? Well, John means is now 22 months removed from Tommy John surgery, not to say that he won’t pitch and pitch effectively for the Orioles this year. But we’ve seen that has not been a completely smooth return of right up until he was ready to be the number three starter in their postseason rotation until he started feeling some elbow soreness in a sim game, you know, in the five days that the Orioles had off at the end of the regular season. The point is, nothing’s failed proof. Nothing’s 100% Nothing’s certain. Oh, even when it comes to Tommy John surgery, which has, yes, a very high return rate, especially compared to where it would have been 20 years ago or certainly 30 or 40 years ago. But there’s still risk, there’s still no guarantee. So if there is a chance and look, this is a different scenario than Felix Batista. It was very apparent that Orioles knew almost right away that Felix Batista was going to need Tommy John surgery, but the timing was not going to save his 2024. So all along it was is there some path here? I’ll be it a very unlikely one that we’re going to try to rest and rehab and have them throw and maybe he can give us five to 10 innings and it’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:49
injured can throw the ball 102 miles an hour. Like that’s insane. I
Luke Jones 06:53
mean, a guy. I mean, maybe not 102 Is there a scenario where his ligament could have held up that he could have thrown 98? I don’t know. Again, it didn’t happen. There’s no worse for where he wasn’t going to pitch in 2024. Anyway, the timing for this is a little more delicate is a little more you know a case of okay, you can go the route of a PRP injection which they gave him. You can go the route of him trying to throw and you see how he reacts. I’ll give you two names right now recent history. Aaron Nola great pitcher for the Phillies right. All star pitcher just got a big extension this past offseason. I think it was late in 2016 16 or 17. Off the top of my head. I looked at it earlier this week, he had a sprain to UCL. Now, clearly it wasn’t a major sprain. It wasn’t a major tear. But it was enough that it had shut him down for the rest of I think it was in August and he was done through the end of the season. He came back the following year. And every full season since then, I believe he’s thrown at least 165 innings you know, and in many seasons more than that. Never had Tommy John surgery. And to this point now seven, eight years later, he’s still going strong. Zach Allen, who people gained some familiarity with in this past postseason, another pitcher, who had UCL elbow ligament concerns, never had Tommy John surgery. So Tanaka for the Yankees years back, that was a really popular example that people cited. So there are examples. There are exceptions. But yes, it’s never a good thing, especially when you’re talking about a pitcher like Kyle Bradish, who was we know led the American League and era and the second half of last season comes into spring training and back in January, and let’s be clear, this wasn’t something that he did on the first day of camp, they were aware of this probably expedited their efforts to get go get Corbin burns. If we’re being honest, even though Michael is downplayed that when asked about it in Sarasota, but
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:52
when did they say that they realized that he was injured? January’s
Luke Jones 08:55
January is typically and again, it varies because some of these pitchers go to you know, they go to drive line, they go to different, you know, different academies, they work with private instructors, but typically Major League pitchers and in this day and age, they start ramping up throwing they started throwing program in January, and that’s when Kyle Bradish felt this in
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:15
the old days. That’s what Messina would do. He’d be taken off November, December and January he’d start long toss. Right,
Luke Jones 09:21
right. So he started feeling it and obviously the team sent him to get an MRI and that’s when they saw that there was a UCL sprain there now they’ve expressed optimism. This hasn’t been something where they’ve just said okay, he’s getting Tommy John, that’s that no chance whatsoever. They give him a PRP injection, which has worked for some individuals hasn’t worked for a lot. You know, the the numbers. Well, they express
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:44
optimism we express pessimism and somewhere in there, there’s a realism of what you’re talking about, which is, yeah, this happens to a third of the guys. It’s happened to half the guys on the team. Yeah, it’s his turn. And the notion that he’s getting Be an Aaron Nolan, not a Tommy John is
Luke Jones 10:02
not great, right? I mean, again, it’s not a fate a complete, there are examples, and I’ll continue to say that. But you also have to be realistic, you have to be pragmatic about this. And we understand what a UCL injury means for a pitcher, we understand what Tommy John surgery means. And the longer you go with pursuing, seeing if rest and rehab works, it does, you know, there is the reality of the timing of this, running into his availability for the start of 2025. Even I mean, that’s just where they are, where it is different from Felix Batista. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:36
wait, but not too long. Yeah, but at the same time,
Luke Jones 10:40
I use the John means example as, okay. If it’s a matter of four weeks, three, four weeks, you see how this goes your salary response, and he ends up getting Tommy John’s surgery in early April, you know, that still, you want to still pursue the possibility you still want to all things being equal, you still want to avoid surgery, if you can avoid it. I mean, that’s just kind of a general rule of thumb, really, for anyone in life, right? I mean, anyone who has back problems, I mean, back surgery, that is a very touchy, very sensitive subject in terms of whether that’s going to help someone or not. So you, generally you do what you go with more conservative measures, you’ve got to
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:21
plan a fitness and get in shape and things like that. Yeah, exactly. So So
Luke Jones 11:25
you know, it’s not a completely different principle here. But again, we know the reality here. It’s not good that you have a you’re talking about a UCL injury for every Aaron Nola or Zach Allen or Tanaka. There are many more examples that you think of someone getting Tommy John surgery. So we’ll see how this plays out. You know, he began a throwing program on Friday, starting with some light throwing, and we’ll see how that works. Generally speaking, when you realize that’s not going to happen, that will present itself fairly quickly. I’m guessing we will have I’m guessing we’ll have a resolution on Kyle Bradish at some point here in the next three or four weeks. St. Patrick’s days. What else? Yeah, I mean, you know, and look, look at someone like Dylan Tate who wasn’t listed as a UCL specifically, his was more of the flexor mass, which is in the forearm, but oftentimes, it’s you know, it’s connected and tied together as far as an injury. He did not have Tommy John surgery last year. He is supposedly healthy, and he’s throwing in Sarasota right now. But he still missed all of last season. So there’s not a one size fits all here. I know, it’s a it’s a quick reaction, almost like a, you know, I don’t want to say it’s fatalist, because it’s, it’s more realistic than anything, when we typically see these kinds of injuries, but it’s why you do generally want to try to go the rehab route, you go the conservative route to see and that the fact that they’re even doing that tells you that, you know, this isn’t, you know, he didn’t rupture, you know, it’s not as though he snapped as UCL right. It’s, it’s kind of like a rubber band, or you think of like fibers of a rope, you know, if just a couple of the fibers are frayed, that rope can conceivably still hold up for a really long time and still be fine. But if it’s something that is a much more significant sprain or tear, then yeah, they wouldn’t even try this. So that tells you that it’s got a shot. I’m not saying that I’m not gonna sit here and try to put a number on it or that it’s high percentage or likely, but you see how it works. In the meantime, you’re even more, you’re even more thankful that the Orioles were able to get Corbin burns to headline your rotation because Kyle radish was the ACE last year and you know, may not be available to them on the heels of Felix Batista not being available to them in the bullpen. So, but you do have Corbin burns, you do have Grayson Rodriguez, you have Dean Kramer. I think for me, it’s the trickle down effect. You know, you and I’ve talked about this. We haven’t talked about a lot but since the burns trading, I said that I still look at the bullpen as an area of question for me knowing that you’re not going to have Felix Batista. You do have Craig Kimbrel now, obviously, but what’s your condo gonna look like this year? What are some of those other guys that you counted on like Danny coulomb to look like in the bullpen? You don’t have DL Hall and that bullpen and for me, the big the trickle down effect here is Tyler Wells who wasn’t just me. I think a lot of people were looking at him as a really intriguing candidate to fill a late inning, bullpen role, a thinning, let’s say, Now, you look at it on paper barring another acquisition, you know, barring a signing title, well, it’s very likely looks like he could be their number four starter to at least begin the season knowing that Bradish isn’t going to be there for opening day even if he’s able to pitch at some point. And knowing that John means is not injured, but behind because they just had him shut down and rest for a longer period of time over the winter. So hey, we always say and I mean, we always say that with the Ravens Ozzie Newsome said years ago you could never have enough corners in Baseball, it’s one you can truly never have enough pitching. You know what man,
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:03
I was gonna be the old fart, you know, get off my lawn guy and say, Is this where I’m allowed to, like, use all of those bull Durham’s? Because it really is, it’s a Bull Durham, you know, line, you can never have enough pitching. But, you know, we sit here talking about burns and these other guys is is is, I don’t know, I thought about Rodriguez last year in his sort of dead arm thing and where he was at that point, and whether means is really going to get back there because he got back there for like a minute and a half and flashed it and then it’s gone. And I just all the way through, I would say at this point, what are their options at this point, because a lot of the is is we’re pipeline guys that are now here like Rodriguez and these others and, and pratice came over in the deal and all that but the we put so much on holiday and the hitting the hitting the hitting and who’s gonna play shortstop who’s gonna play second base and where they’re going to deal Westberg. And, you know, the male castles and the Hearns. And like all of these guys, big, there’s not a lot to argue about what the lineup other than how to fill it out. Holiday sort of a foregone conclusion. And we’ll do our segments, I’m sure in the coming weeks, whether he said 620 In spring training or a buck 20 You know, in the first 30 at bats, because we’ll take all those really, really seriously data breaks in the next couple of weeks. But the pitching in general. I was going to make a joke, you were sort of on a roll going through the bullpen and Kimbrel all the way down and you know what, what’s going to be any your Chronos role? And I’m like, I don’t think he’s gonna look ever again. Like he looked in the month of May last year. I don’t know. But I’m not betting on that for any relief pitcher. Yeah, lashes in that way, right? So and Batista is gone. And Kimbrel is on the other side of being like he can only be disappointing for the amount of money they gave him. Even if he’s really good. He’ll blow a couple of saves will be pissed off. Right? But you better hope his arm doesn’t fall off. I want to joke about Fuji, right? And say, well, who’s going to be the Fuji this year? Who’s going to be the the the Andrew Miller who’s going to be the trading because they’re going to need bullpen help do you need more than what they have? They’re going to it’s going to be some guys pitcher for the Rockies now or the Diamondbacks or whatever because that’s the way bullpen help works. And you and I get into all this with the caster and football and whatever. These rush edges in the NFL, they’re kind of like relief pitchers, right. Like they’re all 30 Something defensive linemen, whether it was the guy from Cincinnati that came here and played at the dome out of pocket Pekka and but relief pitching. We know better than to think like, oh my god, it’s Valentine’s Day we need it, this is gonna be all year long, they’re gonna be dealing out of the depth of their, of their situation, whatever. Westberg or mountcastle, or whoever is safe in a deal. They’re not safe, because July 28, when they need to go get Mr. Big and Andrew Miller was these are the pieces that Siemens Cedric Molins. I mean, they’ll deal with your players, I mean, because they have such wealth at the position. And, you know, unless a guy breaks his leg or gets hit by a fastball or pulls a hammy or has an injury in that way, you’re much more likely to have this attrition through pitching. And it’s very, very unfortunate. We’re talking about this in February, right? Because when this happens on May 10, after six starts were like, well, that sucks. It sucks Oh, a lot more when it’s February, but you feel like well, they got time to prepare for it, and maybe go do for Dylan C’s or whatever. Because this thing’s not going to be done. There are real contending team. And there’s not a day with the kid book about hide now pitchers in Norfolk and Lord Bob Woodward knows wherever else Columbus. They’re gonna use a lot of pitching and it’s pitchers. We can sit here and speculate all day, but you know, they’re going to deal they’re going to be in a position. They’re going to have an ownership group. They’re going to take on $80 million on July 30 and not care about it because you hope Yeah, I mean, so when I see all of this, it sucks. Like when this is the first piece of news because you really want to start from the strength of Dr. Steven over to La chiropractic saying your prayers Bradish you know, go through it. I’m Cramer’s number five. Oh, Kramer’s number three might be number two if somebody gets a stiff arm and Rodriguez wakes UPS not right and then all of a sudden you’re back to where you were last June saying oh they’re good but yeah, you know we felt really good today we got burns but then means didn’t come back and we got a knife into this one and Rodriguez you know a little so so right now for a couple of starts even if they’re making it to the mound and and getting you six and a third pitching dude like you never have enough To our point, but it’s never over with and it’s never like a finished product because some team out there is going to stink and feel, hey, look at the best player in the sport. He was a pitcher and a hitter toe. He wasn’t a pitcher anymore, right? I mean, this pitching thing what they do to these humans? It’s not they’re not meant to do this, like Jim cotton. Jim Palmer did 50 years ago. Well,
Luke Jones 20:24
they weren’t really meant to do it, either. They were the ones who endured right? I mean, go back to the Orioles farm system of the late 50s and early 60s And you’ll find all kinds of pitching prospects who got hurt in a year or two. And then they were out of baseball. They got a book here on downcast. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So So that’s always been part of it. Right. But you know, I’m a couple things glad you brought up the farms farm system. Glad you brought up the fact that this was gonna be a moving target. I mean, we were talking about this even before knowing Kyle Bradish you know, his situation with his UCL not knowing what his availability is going to be. And
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:58
Namie a team with their top five right now starters, we’re gonna make all their starts and everything’s gonna be rosy. And they’re gonna have to raise a three and a half to stick around. Because guys get beaten in at the bottom stations on bad teams. So it’s like, I don’t know where the Fuji is, but that’s sort of my, that’s going to be my inside poker on this. They’re going to go take a gander on a couple of guys.
Luke Jones 21:18
Yeah, well, you and you hope they’re better than food. You trade for them. So, but yeah, I mean, hey, look at look no further than the American League East last year. Orioles 101 wins. The Orioles rotation stayed extremely healthy. That is typically the exception. That’s certainly not the norm. In contrast, the Tampa Bay Rays who were right on the heels, heels until what three days before the end of the regular season. Go look at the number of starting pitchers. They had Tommy John or other injuries missing time you need pitching down. I mean, there’s no question about it. So as much as guys like me just a week ago, we’re talking about Tyler wells maybe be in their eighth inning guy. That’s why what even if Kyle Bradish and John means we’re healthy and on track for opening day. What were the Orioles going to be doing with Tyler wells and Cole Irvin anyway, even if they were envisioned as being part of their bullpen, you’re stretching them out? Anyone that has started capability. So I you stretch them out in the spring because you don’t know what’s going to happen. I said the start of spring training every year, but even more so for the Orioles this year, knowing that these guys had set career highs and innings and not even accusing the Orioles of being irresponsible. I mean, Kyle Bradish I think if you count the one rehab start he made in April, and his postseason start. I think he threw a total of 33 more innings last year than he did in 2022. General and this is an inexact science, let’s be clear, because you made the point. And I’m not picking on you. Because a lots of people say this, but none of this pitching stuff. And these innings limits their guidelines, they’re thought of as subjective best practices, right? The idea that you don’t want a 22 year old pitcher throws 100 100 innings in the minors to suddenly throw 230 The next year, I mean that that’s just kind of a common sense thing. And they do have player tracking and data tracking. And you know, they can track your your, where you release it, you know, your release point is and the velocity all those different things. There’s so much science involved, but there still aren’t, you know, they’re still we
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:27
did four months of summer last year talking about them shutting a young pitcher down and they did break and they did and
Luke Jones 23:34
they did well, Tyler wells got tired. I mean, you could just you could see it. I mean, he’s effectiveness is velocity, all that. But we also said at the at late last year, I know I made this point at least once or twice and plenty of people didn’t know not just me. But a big tell is not necessarily how they’re feeling at the end of the season. It’s when when they pick up the ball in January and they start ramping up again. And it doesn’t even mean they do that irresponsibly. It’s just maybe there was some wear and tear that you know that you’re not going to notice right away but you do after you take some time off. So point is it’s a moving target. Like you said they’re going to be in the market for relief pitching. We’ll see what Jordan Montgomery is out there. I know Blake Snell is out there. I’m not holding my breath on that one for the Orioles at least at this point until new ownership is officially in place. There are some pitchers you know Lorenzo is out there. You know the first few days of spring training. There are some names like that, but at the same time, Tyler wells Cole Ervin, I’ll say this keep an eye on someone like Chase McDermott, who pitched pretty darn well when he was promoted to triple A last year. He was part of that package of prospects that got in the trade man Seanie deal a couple years ago, you know, take keep an eye on Kade Povich he was someone they got from the twins and the Jorge Lopez deal a couple years ago. You know guys that were familiar with like a Bruce Zimmerman. I’m not saying that anyone’s excited about Bruce Zimmerman if he has to make 20 starts, but he might have to make a start or two at some point in time and that’s part of how this works again, you need deep depth as
Nestor J. Aparicio 25:03
much you’re gonna get hurt. They’re gonna lose three more exactly for opening day.
Luke Jones 25:07
Someone’s gonna turn his ankle during a PRP drills in Sarasota. I mean, those things happen. I mean, inevitably that’s going to happen. We haven’t even mentioned Gunnar Henderson dealing with a little bit of an oblique issue. He’s by all accounts should be fine for opening day but it’s just it’s how it works. That’s why were the Orioles are now coming off a 101 win season, all the expectations. And after having traded DL Hall and Joey Ortiz for Corbin burns, still the consensus number one farm system and baseball. That’s important. It’s important for the future. And, you know, we’ll see how this is going to work. And by the way, they’re 26 Man, Major League roster is going to evolve over the course of the season. I for me, we haven’t even mentioned this, but I’m intrigued to see what the outfield is going to look like over the course of the year. I mean, Colton Couser and Heston cursed at I don’t know what else they can prove a trip away right now. Now that doesn’t guarantee they’re going to be on the roster on opening day.
Nestor J. Aparicio 26:04
But a lot of bodies dude, like like, I’ve been doing this for 32 years. Damn, when you start talking about position players, it’s deep. And then having too many of them and sending guys down to the farm and starting holidays clock and who’s really going to be a shortstop and who’s really going to be a third baseman is really important questions that like they had to answer with Cal Ripken back in 1982. Right saying, What is he? Where’s he going to play? Who’s gonna play left field in the big left field that this team has here? Right? What’s the real future for Hayes and Mullins as they take on money and younger players come along, and may be able to replace that maybe new ownership with with Elias, a want to spend the money on pitching. I mean, this thing is really interesting way more interesting than it’s ever been on a day by day basis, and the intrigue of how they’re going to run their business, what they’re going to do, how the ballparks going to feel how they’re going to unplug from 32 years of the Angelo’s family and really try to make sure people like Greg Bader aren’t greeting people at the front door anymore, because it’ll still feel like they’re there. The first thing they need to do is make it feel like and I don’t know what that means for Rocco Bako and Masson, and Rob long and who’s on TV and Kevin Brown. And, you know, talking to insiders, they’re like, I don’t think there’ll be any change this year at all, like they’re just gonna go, as is. And I’m like, as is is tough. When you get to August, and September, and there’s really is a new ownership group. And they really want to like capitalize on things. And this place really hasn’t been well run just in a general from how they sell hotdogs straight other than baseball talent they’re fine with. And we could sit here all day and talk about possibilities of their players. But they have too many players. And they don’t have enough pitching, right. Like, I think we can say that out loud. There’s going to be deals and Elias is going to try to get the pitching better. I’m convinced to that, because he knows what you know about Bradish. Right. I mean, and he knows what you know about bullpens, and about Craig Kimbrel. And about where the middle of the the middle of the game is going to be problematic. The more the less innings that radishes and means is take up, because the quality of those innings goes downhill. And you get to your bullpen and the fifth inning instead of the seventh inning. And right. That’s the thing that you really talk a lot about in the season is when they have these bad nights where they’re using up a bullpen that that affects them on the weekend. But yeah, right.
Luke Jones 28:38
I mean, you have a night where you’re starting pitcher gets knocked out in the third inning. I mean, that doesn’t just impact you for the rest of that night. It’s, you know, if it’s a Wednesday night when that happens Thursday, Friday, Saturday, you know, that’s gonna come
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:49
right now we’re talking about a mystery fourth and fifth order that we haven’t even heard of that we don’t know this person’s name. Well, they’re gonna get knocked out in the fourth inning. You know, that’s why they they’re the fifth starter.
Luke Jones 29:00
I’ll say this, though. Let’s pause a little bit on. I don’t disagree with your general point there and look, absolutely, they’re going to be looking for more pitching and they should be and that will be that’ll be an ongoing search, not just St. Patrick’s Day, but Easter, and Flag Day, the Fourth of July, all the way up to the trade deadline. And even then we saw them bring in Jorge Lopez after the trade deadline to try to fortify their bullpen late last year, even though they knew he wasn’t eligible for the postseason. But I will say this Korean Burns was not part of the Oreos last year, and they won 101 games. So let’s look at it through the lens of um, I know the goal was to get better. And yes, they’re going to be on the hunt and they’re going to be questions about the back end of the rotation. There were questions last year about the back end of the rotation. Tyler wells as much as I was just talking about him being in the bullpen and now he’s number four starter by the way tie was was really good for the Orioles the first half of last year as a starter until he started to wear down. So my point is if you still look at where they Stand right now. Right now knowing what’s up with Bradish John means should be fine, as you know, but he’s a little behind. They didn’t have John means till September last year, you know, so there still can be a net gain there with whatever he can give them this year. But the point is, you do have Corbin burns that right now you almost have to view it through the lens of he’s kind of replacing Kyle Bradish. And, you know, you look at it from a track record standpoint, that’s a net positive Grayson Rodriguez if healthy and obviously that’s an that’s the caveat for any pitcher. But if we get the grace if the Orioles get the grace and Rodriguez that we saw on the second half for all of 2024 That’s a net gain over whoever was taking starts in his place. Cole Irvin or whoever it was last year at at some of those different points. You know, what, from May until mid July, late May to mid July. You know, you have Dean Kramer. You as I mentioned Tyler wells, Cole Irvin, even though as a very rough start to last year for him, where he got demoted after what three starts, he actually came back and pitched pretty well for them, you know, not not as much in the in the rotation and obviously, he was in the bullpen. But when he returned from that early season to motion, he hits pretty well for them. The point being, it’s not as though Kyle Bradish. Just you know, this is the same rotation as last year, and then Kyle radishes hurt, they brought in Corbin burns. So at the very least, they’re kinda it’s almost like they’re back to where they were at the start of the offseason. But I will throw out there. Kyle Gibson was someone who gave you consistent earnings and he’s no longer in the picture. So So yeah, you’re gonna have to fortify this thing. There’s no question that said, I don’t think this is a situation where you’re pressing a panic button, and you’re saying that they’re in deep you know what, they got some work to do. But at the same time, there were also guys at this point last year, like a year Cano, for example, that we weren’t even talking about. I mean, Daniel Cano and Dan McDonald even talked about this last season on some of the mass and telecasts he flat out said he didn’t understand why Cano was even on the 40 man roster because he was so lousy for the Orioles when they got him from Minnesota. So the point is, you’re going to have other guys step forward in the same way that you’ll have some other guys get hurt and yeah, you’ll have some other guys will take a step back. I mean, that’s how this works, especially when you get into relief pitching more than anything. I mean, it is like the stock market guys are up one year they’re down the next right guys get hurt guys come back from injury and our better guys tweet, you know, with the Orioles with their player development, we’ve seen them be able to tweak pitchers and add another pitch to their repertoire or change this pitch or alter their release point or their their wind up a little bit.
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:49
So it was the guy in the in the system that’s
Luke Jones 32:51
going to take that jump exactly because they are good at that. They’re very good at that. And they’ve also been good. Danny coulomb, one of the unsung heroes of their bullpen. Last year, they acquired him. What was it two or three days before the season started? I mean, so there you go. I mean, there are going to be some acquisitions like that. There are probably some guys right now in camp that I haven’t even thought about other than just reading their name on the list of non roster invitees, guys that no one has talked about that will contribute at some point in this year. So it’s, I’m not gonna sit here and downplay the Kyle radish injury. And what that could mean that stinks. It stinks for them. There’s no question mainly because I was just thinking about the possibilities of a 123 not on March 28 30th and April 1, but thinking about it in terms of the first three games of a playoff series. I mean, that was I mean, that’s pie in the sky exciting you know, that’s 1971 Oreos exciting not saying as good but just you get my point. The Orioles haven’t been
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:56
that’s what it’s gonna take to win a championship. We’re gonna say you’re talking about Lamar, Lamar Lamar, until they win an AFC Championship Game now of where that expectation is. The expectation is you think they’re gonna make the playoffs straight away, right February and they have to make the playoffs. They don’t have to win 101 games, but they gotta be ready for games one, two, and three. And they better for starters, that sound like the better guys in survive that in October no matter where they finish.
Luke Jones 34:22
And the good news is because you did get Corbin burns. You still have legit ace, right? Legit number one pitcher established just a couple years removed from being the NL Cy Young. And Grayson Rodriguez still is someone that I have extremely high hopes for. And he pitched extremely well when he returned after the all star break. So I still like the potential. I like the established nature of what Corbin Burns is and has been and should continue to be at age 29 Even if it’s one year and then we’ll see what happens with his contract and all that. But for 2024 I love having Corbin burns as my number one if I’m the owner Regardless of what’s happened with Kyle Bradish, I would even still say, I’m still really excited about the potential unsealing of Grayson Rodriguez as a number two, if Kyle Bradish doesn’t come back and asked to get Tommy John surgery. Now the question is, okay, Dean Kramer is your number three? I’m not liking that as much as Grayson Rodriguez as my number three. And then what does that mean for you know, okay, when does John means going to pitch? You know, is it going to be the third or fourth week of April like the Orioles are indicating seems like it could be quite plausible, or is it going to be you know, he’s kind of in and out of the rotation on the on the active roster on the aisle, you know, is it like that, and that’s why I said, there’s a cautionary tale about Tommy John surgery and why you don’t just rush into surgery, if a pitcher can rehab and continue pitching, because there are examples of that. So they’ve got to figure it out. But at the same time, there’s still excitement, there’s still optimism for still a heck of a lot to love about where this team is on the field. And that doesn’t change just because of the disappointment of Bradish. So, you know, we’ll see how it plays out. And to your point. Yep, it’s a canvas right. It’s a working canvas, your roster building in the same way. We’ve talked about that with the Ravens for years with late August additions and had Kyle van Noy arrived and what week for last year so that applies for pitching Yeah, that applies for the Orioles here and you hope with ownership and with new ownership coming at some point in the not too distant future. When and if it’s made official, then there’ll be able to fortify things but in the meantime got a lot of evaluating to do and it’s okay to keep your fingers crossed that maybe the Kyle Bradish thing does end up being Aaron Nola or Zach Allen but if not, life will go on and then we’ll still have a lot going for them to be excited about even if Yeah, that’s that’s a big hit that indoor on the first day of spring training when least for my money. This was as excited as Orioles fans had been since I I would venture to say 96 Pat Gillick Davey Johnson Roberto Alomar David Wells go down the list. I think it’s been since that long since people were that excited. So yeah, the day one news it stinks. There’s no question about it. We
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:13
will get to football in here. We’re gonna plenty baseball in here. Luke Jones is monitoring all things Orioles in Sarasota. We’re doing Baltimore positive. We’re doing the crabcake tour. crabcake row is such a success. Big thanks to everybody. I’ve been playing all of these hours and hours of incredible people doing incredible things out in our community. My thanks to our friends at the Maryland lottery, I have 10x 10 times the caches we’ll be giving away when I put the crabcake tour together into the early part of March. In the meantime, I’ll keep it glued out of Baltimore positive lots and lots of stuff coming out. This week. I’m re releasing the Peter principles. I’m also going to be re releasing the book that I wrote about my father and my love of baseball. My dad’s birthday is March 5, so we’re gonna re release that written in 2006. It was a prelude to free the birds. So with all of this change blowing down at Camden Yards, I’m sort of bracing myself getting ready for a beautiful baseball season around here and some fresh air for a Baltimore baseball fans around here and Orioles fans as well. And I didn’t think the jerseys were all that awful. I mean, it’s orange. I mean, what do you want it to look like? It looks like a pumpkin. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570 Towson. Baltimore is my orange to orange for you. We never stop talking Baltimore. Positive I look like I came out of the discount racket. TJ Maxx because I did it
