When former sports producer Bernard Bokenyi reunites with Nestor after a quarter of a century witnessing poor ownership in their hometowns of Cleveland and Baltimore, it sparks an interesting debate about what we invested in stadia, billionaire owners and professional sports franchises last century and what the communities and citizens actually got in return half a lifetime later.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Cleveland sports, Maryland lottery, Sammy Hagar tour, Cleveland Guardians, NFL franchise, sports media, Deshaun Watson, Browns ownership, baseball stadium, revenue sharing, sports trauma, baseball resiliency, music passion, concert experiences, cancer battle
SPEAKERS
Bernard Bokenyi, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
8
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 tassel, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. Couple of plugs here during Cleveland week, because we love to hate Cleveland, but we love Cleveland. Everybody knows that the Maryland lottery is presenting us out on our crab cake tour. Maryland lottery, Raven scratch offs. We’re going to be giving away on Friday at MAMA on the half shell. Been a lucky batch. Had a couple $20 winners couple weeks ago, as we were down at the Cocos pub, we’ve been a lot of places here with the oyster tour as well our friends at Liberty. Pure solutions, one 800 clean water. Make my well water clean, just like the oysters. Keep the bay oxygenated and clean on the Chesapeake Bay. Our friends at shifting the multi care, putting Luke out on the road, and, of course, curio wellness, keeping me happy in my move product, we always encourage people to use cannabis responsibly. But more than that, get educated on it. Our friends at curio wellness and foreign daughter help us remain educated on all things, including this incredible move product. It helped my back. A couple months ago, I did a wild thing. I was just a I got into the Sammy Hagar tour when he was doing Van Halen 5150 I saw a few shows. I missed out on this holmdale New Jersey show. Everybody knows my back’s a little wonky. And I got in the car, and I took the family roadster out to Ohio, sort of like a pretender song. You know, I’m not going back to Ohio, but I went back. And I have a lot of friends in Ohio. I catch up with them during Cleveland week. You’ll hear Munch Bishop this week. You won’t hear Michael reg guy, because you couldn’t join me. You won’t hear Dave zastle. He’s had a little eye surgical procedure. Didn’t want to come on camera. I told to get better. But then I have old friends of mine who were my radio producer a quarter of a century ago, as featured in the documentary, no one listens. Everyone hears. Bernard McKinney is my original gangster of Cleveland rock and roll sports, formerly of sports because he’s kind of quit on the sports thing and a long time sports producer, sports radio, protect with program director, I should say Portland, Oregon, all over the place, but he’s back in Cleveland. We went together to blossom. What a beautiful facility that was. I haven’t had you on the show since then to see my friend Thomas Dolby, who did come and claim his box, finally, for his birthday two weeks ago, we welcome Bernard bikini back on the program from Western Cleveland. Yeah, where the football team still stinks, but the baseball team gave it a nice run. You would admit that Bernie,
Bernard Bokenyi 02:32
they did Nestor, and I still have my badge right here from our totally two wheeler Festival. It’s sitting on my desk because I want to frame this. So thank you again for that great night. Yes, the Guardians did give us a little bit to celebrate this year, so I’ll take that. You know, I’ve been waiting for 29 years for an NFL franchise. Eventually we’ll get one here. But we did have a good baseball season at least well. I
Nestor Aparicio 02:55
mean, not only are you like just the Cleveland guy and you’re you’ve got all this complexity that I have, that I understand in friendship, in regard to your wife and your family, and the things you want to do in your life and the way you work. But you gave up on the sports thing after doing it for almost 20 years, right? Like you got paid, compensated. You went to Super Bowls, you went to games, you covered that you did all the work that we did here, and you found this other life, and you’re trying to figure out, and I know this on a professional level with you, where sports is in your life. As a Cleveland native, proud Cleveland human as you are, you’re now back in Cleveland. You’re gonna have a family in Cleveland one day like all of this, what? What does your wisdom bring like what will you teach your child about this, and what would you say about it, having done this and wanted to do nothing else with your life other than be a maybe a comedian, but a Cleveland sports guy is what you are.
Bernard Bokenyi 03:54
I can remember Nestor walking into a locker room for the first time, 1999 walking into a Cleveland baseball locker room and seeing Jim told me a guy who for the previous eight years I had idolized. He came up as a rookie in the 92 season, and he’s standing in his locker room, and I’ve got a credential, right? And you know the feeling, and I’m allowed to go up and say hello to Jim, told me, and he can’t tell me to go away. Wow, I still have goosebumps remembering that day. I specifically remember exactly what Jim Tell me his locker was so you read for 16 years. I got to live the dream. I got to stick microphones and faces. You know, I covered the package for four years. I got to go to Lambeau Field. I had one weekend. I went to a Saturday game at Notre Dame Stadium, a Sunday game at Lambeau Field. I mean, those are the things that most sports fans would dream of being away from it for 10 years though, Nestor, I don’t miss it. I don’t miss it at all. And specifically, when you look at situations like here in Cleveland, you know, with a quarterback that was accused of over two dozen sexual assaults, I would have been fired so many times. Items by now in Cleveland, if I’d have been saying I’m here, what I really feel about the quarterback, about the owner, and I’m glad to be a way where I can think and say those things, and I don’t have a gag on my opinions, and I think you can relate to a lot of that. You know, it’s a show, because there are so many good people in the NFL, not just the guys who are playing the game, but there’s a lot of good people. You go into a locker room, you go into a building, you work with, you know, you get to meet trainers and communications team and media people. And there’s a lot of really good people, and the same as far as broadcasters and people that you’ll never know of. But then there are Deshaun Watsons and Jimmy Haslams, and you just get to a point for me at least, where I said I don’t miss that, and I’m glad just being on my couch getting to watch the games. And honestly, Nestor now my wife will tell you, I laugh at them. I laugh every time Deshaun Watson through an interception. I really did. It was fun for me to see them just be so bad this year and and finally, they have a draft pick in the first round next year. So I’m already looking to mock drafts. I’ve been looking for three weeks already scouting, and I’m trying to think of, hopefully we get the number one pick and trade away Travis hunter to somebody who will give us five picks. So that’s where my mindset is at right now. So
8Nestor Aparicio 06:16
much of the sports landscapes changed. And you know, I had Daryl writer on this week, and I had munch on this week talking about the stadium issue in Cleveland, that the football team is trying to get a dome bill down by the airport in Brook Park, where I’ve attended some ballet, I will admit, and like it’s modell all over again for your fan base. In regard to, you know, I know we have varying opinions on art. Art was a good citizen here. I think art was a good citizen for a long, long time in Cleveland, and didn’t get any help from the politicians. Everything else got built, Matt. You see the rock and roll of fame. They had the induction again last week. Cool in the game. What sticks in the rock and roll? All the fame young creep and Tommy
Bernard Bokenyi 06:59
and Dennis need to make up already. I mean, they have, but Tommy and Dennis need to be up there. J White’s gotta be up there, right? We gotta have, I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 07:05
need it to be fantasy land. I just need it to be right. So, but I’ll say this, the guns arena and the remodeling there and what LeBron is represented for that, right? They had a political convention, couple political convention. So the baseball stadium now gets everything from at one point, Jimmy Buffett, when he was alive, to Bruce Springsteen to I saw sting and Billy Joel was there Right? Stevie. It was a Stevie Nicks, whatever it was, we’ve all like lived through this, and I have reported on it to be professionally targeted by the likes of Chad Steele and Greg Bader, and to be called a bad guy by the Orioles organization after watching Angelos run this thing where you had to play K Fabe or you couldn’t work at Masson, even in the night when Mike Flanagan committed suicide, the broadcasters weren’t allowed to admit it on the air because they were being told they couldn’t say it, which is insane, right? You’re being told what you can and can’t say from a reality perspective, everybody that works the Baltimore Sun right now is experiencing that with this Sinclair group down here and the regional sports networks they were involved in that. So the media is so topsy turvy that at least people, when they come here, they know they’re getting me and I’m not getting paid off or bought off by anybody to Pitch Anything I don’t believe in or can’t challenge, but that’s not really what you and I bought into. Sports Media, sports radio. There were opinions everywhere. I mean, how they put Rush Limbaugh on the map? Right? Like somebody that never spoke a true word in his life, right? Like and idolize all that, and Bucha Trump, right? And we’re into that next week here. And by God, in your state and in your state and in Pennsylvania, anybody can hear my voice vote saying, but I would just say that the sports lane of reality media, which Hard Knocks was supposed to be, it’s like the Real Housewives in some of these organizations, from the Dan Snyders through whatever the Cowboys are at this Point and whatever the shot cons are going to be. And there really is a royalty part of this that I have seen with Rubenstein here. I mean, Rubenstein’s done nothing except make a lot of money, like that’s all I know about him. He knows how to make money. I’ve heard funeral home. I heard all these stories, right? He buys stuff. He wants to be famous. Obviously, wants to be known as a nice guy. Wants to be as famous as he is rich. Beware that. I mean, like, just in a general sense as to what we’re getting here from this, and what the level of accountability where you have a guy running for president that closes down to McDonald’s, pretends to be working there, shoots fake videos basically, and trying to run for president, whatever Jimmy Haslam is going to bake up on the inside of whatever the thing is, I’ve just moved beyond where the reality TV stops and the fans that can’t tell. The difference between K Fabe and why the Dodgers are in and Yankees are in the World Series this week, and why teams like the Orioles aren’t and have, you wouldn’t go to the casino and gamble with the odds that they have. You wouldn’t with
Bernard Bokenyi 10:14
8the situation with the Browns trying to get another new stadium here Nestor, and you touch them a lot. Look. You and I have talked about our model. Yeah, he didn’t quite get what the other teams in the league got. But what Jimmy has, current Browns owner has, he has a stadium that was built just 25 years ago through our tax dollars. We fought the NFL. You guys got the team. That’s great. We kept the name, we cut the colors and we had to build a brand new stadium with our own tax dollars, which we did. For those who don’t know, the city of Cleveland is not exactly in great shapes financially, and hasn’t been like many American cities. Now. There’s been great strides made in healthcare community, but the city of Cleveland could still use a lot of funding when it comes to the infrastructure, but when it comes to schools, when it comes to housing, there are blocks of empty plots of land within a few feet of the Cleveland Clinic, because homes have been raised over the last two decades. So the city of Cleveland does not have money to build another new stadium for the NFL. Brown’s owner, Jimmy has a Nestor, um, that gets you
Nestor Aparicio 11:23
10 times a year, by the way, right, like so all the Bucha that I bought in on to get these things built here to be thrown out of as a media member while they move the Kevin Byrne press box and make it a little mini house up in the corner while they throw the media out and say, We don’t have room for you anymore, one of the many faux excuses they use to try to end my career in my business and my reputation. But it is an amazing thing how much money these billionaires get in a way that no other citizen, no other business, no other thought for any other municipality would it be considered, but in Cleveland, where they’ve lost teams, and in Baltimore, where they’ve lost teams, they feel differently than they do about it. Let’s say in Oakland As an example, right?
Bernard Bokenyi 12:11
Well, you look St Louis and Oakland, they both lost the NFL, and they’re both in cities. Have said, see it, San Diego, San Diego, st San Diego. And I’ll tell you right now. I want to tell a little bit of a background here, because I live in Bay Village, Ohio, like you said, Western Ohio. Nestor on august 6, there were three tornados that came through my town, and there were, I think, at least five that came through Cleveland proper. August 6, I was without power for a week. Now, I’m very fortunate no damage to my home. The morning of August 7, one day after five tornadoes ripped through Cleveland and Cuyahoga County, Brown’s owner Jimmy Haslam, what does he do? He maybe a day after he had a chance to say, hey, we’re going to we’re going to open up some community centers for people who don’t have air conditioning and electricity, or we’re going to donate some money to clean ups. What does Jimmy hasm do? He releases renderings for a new stadium that he wants us to spend a billion dollars on in Brook Park, Ohio. That’s what Jimmy hasm is all about. Jimmy hasm is a lying scumbag. I’m sorry. I can say that now because I’m not employed by the Cleveland Browns. I’m not employed by good karma or Odyssey, who are under that umbrella, competing companies, by the way, who are under the same radio deal. So they can’t say anything bad about Jimmy Haslam. He is a lying scumbag. A day after tornadoes ripped through our town, he says, I need a billion dollars to build another new stadium, just 25 years after you already built a brand new stadium, and not even a decade ago, we spent hundreds of millions of dollars renovating that stadium, which is now called Huntington field because their first sponsor didn’t go well. That’s an whole other story. So that’s where we are at Nestor with our sports realities. Now I’m that’s
Nestor Aparicio 13:59
without the quarterback or anything on the field, like, like, literally, that’s, that’s the state of Bob or say’s ownership, you know, no matter whether you have Bert Jones or Bill Trooper or or arch Lester, bring another old Ohio friend in, you know, dotting the I and the O You know, and the s You know, amongst other things. But you know this tradition of scumbaggery, you know it comes at a cost when, and I would say this to you, and I, by the way, Bernard McKinney is my longtime producer, I just want to give a shout out in the middle of this, I want to take one minute to say that Bernard did the job, along with Cliff Saunders and Justin Hess and Matt and Hagan, great humans that I’ve kept in my life all these years later. But Ray Bachman, our executive producer, is fighting cancer. This week, we have put together the oyster tour. I went down to Mikes and Reva last month when Ray was doing well. He’s in the battle. I’m texting with him every day, so keep him in your thoughts. But he. To Go Fund Me. If anybody wants to help. Ray, it’s out there. Gotta say that without me busting up in front of you. But the baseball side of this, Bernard, is that I watched your baseball team now you still are a guardians fan. Or Yes, yes,
8Bernard Bokenyi 15:15
I am, I mean, and I’m still trying to watch as much as I can. But Nestor, I’m I’m detached, honestly, for my own health, like with baseball, I can’t watch every game anymore. I just don’t have it in me. I don’t have any issue with people who do, but I don’t have three hours every day. You know, I watch the playoffs, but I couldn’t name you their entire 25 man roster. And I’m okay with that. I’m okay with that. But I enjoyed the, you know, the season I went to a few games, your
Nestor Aparicio 15:40
level of engagement with the Cleveland Indians in 1995 through was insane, right? Like knowing the a ball players going out to Arizona. You did all of you did the whole
Bernard Bokenyi 15:53
run. I could name it, Lofton Bell by Edgar Murray Sorrento, yeah, I could name the whole line of the whole pitching staff, absolutely. And for good 20 years, I could see
Nestor Aparicio 16:02
8that’s the baseball thing. What you’re saying to me is the Baltimore experience that we’ve had just awful. And I don’t know if you read my letter to David Rubenstein or not. I hope you read it. And as a as a friend of mine, and as a baseball observer, and as a guy that has witnessed the Angelos atrocities here, on top of the Haslam and modell atrocities in your community, and, you know, from Dan Snyder straight on through, right? You know, we’ll just go get, you know, the silt, the the guy out in the the own, the clippers and just these awful people that have been involved,
Bernard Bokenyi 16:37
Richardson with the Panthers. He was, of course, you
Nestor Aparicio 16:39
know, like, there’s a long the road is littered with scumbags, right? But, but for me, with the baseball team here, and your baseball team being a little bit of a North Star, to say, well, if we’re going to operate like a small market team and a limited payroll, and we we don’t get the shop with one Soto or Corbin burns or Blake Snell, we’re only going to shop well when we guys give us friends and by Aragon, by air and loft and all those guys get hometown deals early on, when that was a thing back in the 90s, free Boros, when we don’t give hometown deals, we have the situation here. We had 10,000 empty seats for playoff games. I monitored your $35 ALCS tickets for the classic. Getting the game three was like a classic, and it was a $20 get in for an ALCS game, because I was monitoring all this, because I’m worried about the health of baseball. I’m worried about sexy young, 40 year old guys like you 40 somethings, where you’re still young enough to, like, fall in love with it again, and slow enough and sloppy enough to go take your kids and drink some beer and have some hot dogs and fall in and keep score again. And maybe you’re thinking that way as you’re starting a family, and like all of that, they get a lot of money left in time, left in you for loving baseball, but it’s kind of gotta love you back, because it’s a hell of a hell of a commitment that when you’re not 10 years old, and you know, exchanging Andre Thornton and Joe charbon of baseball cards, Len Barker cards, that you’re engaged, it’s a it’s a full time job to be a baseball fan, to pay attention to it around the year. It goes away around this time of the year. But as I’ve said to the dude who completely mistreated me and blew me off from David Rubenstein’s group, the new people. I thought, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. It was a who song in there, um, the first thing I said to him is, there’s been a lot of trauma here. You know what I mean? Like not just nasty Nestor and free the birds. Free the birds was a thing because of the trauma. It wasn’t something I made up,
Bernard Bokenyi 18:47
hey, like, your reaction. It was genuine. Yeah, yeah. Like,
8Nestor Aparicio 18:51
I’m a citizen. I’m here. I’m a member of an America voting next week because my cousin could play shortstop 50 years ago. It’s the reason my family came here was baseball. That’s how important it is to me, so being thrown out the last 18 years. Just understand that I’m not the only one. Call Terry Crowley, call Mike Porter, call BJ sur off, call Cal Ripken, call Brooks Robinson’s family, and ask them how it was around here for 30 years. And to your point, the Odyssey is the 98 rocks they they can’t say they could never say anything. I was the only one that could speak truth, and I spoke truth, and I still do, and that’s going away. They’ve tried to eliminate me. Have me? You know, cagi does a media member just gone that vanished disappear me from Super Bowls too. But the thing that’s amazing to me is that the baseball thing and the resiliency of it, and what a great game it is. You know, all that George Will, Ken Burns, baseball American and all. That, I guess I believe in all of that, until I see 10,000 empty seats in my own stadium, and tickets are 10 bucks and nobody wants to go to a playoff game, and they’re bitching that the game started in daylight, right? Like, stop, stop with the excuses. You weren’t interested, you just weren’t there. Like, and I would say the same thing for your community, that the buy in, that people like you and I had pie in the sky. Art modell broke your heart. Bob arsey broke my heart. Peter Angelo broke everything here, like a like a bull in a china shop, like Daniel Snyder broke the Washington football thing that was really something, I mean, like the way the Browns were something the way the Orioles were something with Cal Ripken and Camden Yards got built on the back of all of that, it’s been a a broken promise, from the days of Papa Joe Chevallier writing a fan Bill of Rights 35 years ago to where we are as communities where like Jimmy Haslam is the Latest scumbag, we’re worried that David Rubenstein isn’t, we hope he isn’t, or Michael araghetti Isn’t. My experiences with both of those guys have not been good, and I’m five minutes into this, and they’re probably not going to get better, because they only get richer and more powerful and more Teflon and more insulated. I mean, Bucha was a regular guy 20 years ago pissing in my condo, you know, trick and Miller lights out of a out of a soft cooler with me in my house, strumming my guitar that was in 2006 in 2024 I’m no longer a media member anymore. It’s amazing, like so I love people. It just says, so I watch all of this, and I think to myself, the baseball thing, the sports thing, people want to love it, but do they want to pay for it? Bernie, you know that that’s where I am when baseball now is out on its own nipple, and I I’ve heard from three different people in Cleveland. Nobody in Cleveland wants to give Jimmy Haslam money. There’s no Brandon Scotts and Wes Moore jumping in front of that. There’s no Larry Hogans and Angela also Brooks. These are all of our politicians here, by the way. And Johnny, oh, real time. None of them are jumping in front of the Jimmy Haslam boss and saying, we need to give this man more money here. The money just came up from the earth, a billion two to protect these stadia. And I go back to this with Rubenstein, and I’ll let you jump on your soapbox, because you’re great at that too. Rubenstein, the thing I see from him for the first six months here is the honeymoon and the Johnny Bravo, and he’s got his media company creating fictional fantasy videos that are no different than Donald Trump at the drive through him in McDonald’s last week. The thing with Rubenstein, for me is the plan and where it is and where this money’s going, and what your real intentions are, because they’re all going to make money when they sell it, and they all want to win. But I’ve seen how your operation is running Cleveland, and the real story is, where is the money coming from to pay gunner Henderson $60 million a year, or one soda, or anybody that you want, because the cable bills over with, and it feels to me like baseball’s gone to hockey now, where they’re gonna have to go hand to hand combat, and they’re gonna have to generate their revenue, and baseball has been living off A titty long as I’ve been alive, to some degree, with free agency and cable television and stadia that began in the 80s, that world, it’s it’s a reckoning in regard to the industry. I think that’s coming for baseball.
Bernard Bokenyi 23:35
We’ve seen this for generations now. Nestor revenue sharing has been off in baseball, it’s been non existent. You know, the NFL, the one thing that they’ve always had going for them, we know, is they’ve said, Okay, we’re going to treat every team equally, whether it’s revenue sharing, whether it’s the way the draft is done, reverse order, we’re going to do everything to sub to make sure that Green Bay, Wisconsin can compete with the New York Giants. And in fact, Green Bay has been tremendously, much better than the Giants. Baseball’s had that problem for so many generations. What’s happening here in Cleveland? I was stunned when the Guardian signed Jose Ramirez to an extension in the recent years. I was stunned. I mean, they traded Francisco Lindor over to the Mets, you know, we saw him in the NLCS, and that’s been just, you know, the last 25 years the way things have always gone. Every time a a homegrown talent got up to a free agency, he was gone. I mean, Albert Bell left for the White Sox. Jim Tony was with the Phillies. Probably why the rays have no fans. Yeah, absolutely. Manny Ramirez is more known as a as a Boston Red Sox, and yet, I remember his rookie year vividly. You know, watching in right field, just in awe of this, this young kid who was kind of out there and sometimes didn’t run the base pads real good. I
Nestor Aparicio 24:47
mean, the truth about Oakland, leaving the A’s leaving Oakland is they, they didn’t want to support it like there was no money there to ever make it good, which is what Angelo said. To me if, if the city here split in DC ever got a team, Angelo said it would be like San Francisco and Oakland. It would be unsustainable, because there wouldn’t be enough money. And now the Orioles are the little sister in the relationship, and all of that mass and money went to the Angelos family, all of it, every nickel they drank from all of it. I don’t know whether they pissed it away on horses or whether they’re living I don’t know anything about it. I just owe us a lot of money that the Rubinstein people are going to have to go fight for and they’re going to have to. And it goes back to my trauma thing, like, if you want to fix it, you better find the 55 year old Hispanic guys like me that might want to buy a season ticket if we were treated decent. Because I like baseball and a lot of people don’t, and a lot of people are never going to like it in a like it in lacrosse community. And I worry in your community where the Browns get a free pass, the Cavaliers sucked a lot of money out. I think Ohio State sucks money out of Cleveland, right? I mean, they just do based on Maryland doesn’t suck any money out of Baltimore. Maryland doesn’t have any sucking any money out anything. They’re ripping down goalposts down there last week. And get me in trouble on social media for calling it a they beat a three and three demo. Ripping that goal post. You’d laugh at that in Ohio State, but I would say this Cleveland and the Guardians the financial viability of that product in that market, with that money, with a white fan base that it appeals to in the over 50 whatever it is, it’s been as good as in Baltimore. We’re looking at it saying, Well, I would have taken that over the last 30 years if we’re a small market team, or whatever you’re going to call it, but I’m looking at the Orioles, and I’m wondering where the possibility is, because the bar is a lot lower than it was when John Steadman and I walked in there in 1992 from possibilities for what the franchise can be. And I wonder what baseball can be in places and get reinvented. Because I see it’s sort of it’s good in Cleveland, but it’s not rich at all.
Bernard Bokenyi 26:49
8It’s not and what they’ve been doing the last few years of the ballpark, if you’ve seen here in Cleveland, Jacobs field is always remembering. They’ve taken out seats the upper deck left field has been taken out for more standing room only seats the upper deck, right field, same thing. They’re doing major renovations along the left field line. If you watch the ALCS, you saw that big guardians tarp down the left field line that used to be a restaurant. They’re turning all these spaces into more open and standing room only seating that appeals to younger people who want to think that they’re at a bar when they’re really at a baseball game, and getting them to pay premium pricing, and they can get more standing room only seats in, and that’s the kind of things that you’re going to see more these ballparks and Nestor you’ve been to every ballpark. I’ve been to 24 of the current ballparks, and I like going to Dodger Stadium. I like going to Fenway Park, but when you go to a Petco Park in San Diego, it’s a different vibe. It’s, there’s all these standing room only places, and there’s these hangout spots, and there’s, it’s like hanging on the lawn at Blossom or Merriweather. It is. And that appeal that you and I had of going to a baseball game, sitting in our seats with our popcorn or Cracker Jack, peanuts, hot dog, whatever, and needing
Nestor Aparicio 28:05
to see the strike zone and needing to see you can’t see the strike zone. You’re not at the baseball game. I don’t know what else there is to say that if you’re sitting down the third base or first base line, you’re not seeing the strike zone, you’re just seeing what the umpire’s calling like,
Bernard Bokenyi 28:20
literally, and I understand you don’t, don’t get that. They’re, they’re going to, if they go to baseball games now, they’re going to be there with their friends, socialize and be on their phone and take selfies. That’s
Nestor Aparicio 28:31
$5 on whether Ramirez is going to strike out or hit a home run in this at bat too. Sure. That’s what they do. That’s what they sure. And look into a bingo parlor like, you know what? I
8Bernard Bokenyi 28:41
mean, yeah, and I look, I’ve gone to a few games, and I’ve sat there in between innings of scrolling on my phone, I’ve done it, and I even put $1 bet on a guy to hit a home run. Sure, it’s fun because you can, but I still love the essence of baseball, but it’s not like when we were young. I still remember my first game June of 1989 right field Cleveland stadium, walking up and seeing Ken Griffey Jr as a rookie in center field, and seeing the grass. I’ll never forget those moments. I don’t think an eight, nine year old kid today has that kind of romanticism with baseball and the way it’s going though. Now you talked about those 50 and upper guys like us who maybe have disposable income. They’re not appealing to us. They’re trying to appeal to that 25 year old who wants to go to the neighborhood bar. That’s who they’re appealing to now, at least,
Nestor Aparicio 29:29
but that’s also not a person that understands the strike zone or cares about the game itself, because they’re not even watching the game, let alone calling Sports Radio afterward and talking about relief pitching and whatnot. It’s a different engagement point with strategy, with players, with statistics, with the game itself, as opposed to going to the movie, but not necessarily being a fan of Tom Cruise.
Bernard Bokenyi 29:57
It’s a different experience now, and I feel. Out of place. Sometimes, I still have a few ballparks I need to get to, and I’ve been working on this for 30 plus years. So as you can relate, I want to get to these few ballparks. But
Nestor Aparicio 30:09
8where you trying to get to? I hope you got Tropicana Fielding, because you never going there, right? Oh, okay, so I Tropicana and
Bernard Bokenyi 30:15
the Marlins, right? I gotta be honest, I didn’t hate Tropicana Field all that much. I
Nestor Aparicio 30:21
didn’t I hated the Marlins way worse. Same here stadiums though. It just got awful. It’s a terrible everything. The only thing good is it’s near Little Havana, and you can get some good
Bernard Bokenyi 30:33
food. I parked in somebody’s in front of somebody’s house in Little Havana. I couldn’t stand the Marlins ballpark when I went there, the game I went to, this was 10 years ago. Now, upper deck was closed. So when I go to ballparks now, just as a fan, I like walking around, experiencing, seeing everything. I don’t need to worry about a credential, and I can wear my, you know, Lionel Richie t shirt, and I don’t care upper deck was closed, and the not nice gentleman wouldn’t even let me come near the escalator. I said I
8Nestor Aparicio 31:00
wanted to go up. I was mistreated in Miami too on my my baseball tour in 15 it was one of the places I really mistreated poorly. Bernard McKinney is here. He’s my long time executive producer at the Sporting News Radio 101, sports quarter of a century ago. He is a Clevelander. He is there. So the football team are you? You are watching them, right? Like you watch the games. You’re a professional journalist for two decades. Uh, sports journalist. But like that, the Sean Watson thing from the minute it went down, no matter where you were. And I was in West Palm Beach, and Steve Bucha, he was the first time he ran for me, but he that was when he was pissed off and popping off to other media members, not to w, N, S, T, we were excluded from that media scrum. And couple, two and a half years ago, that’s when the money happened, and he realized, oh my god, I’m gonna have to give Lamar guaranteed money. They’re all gonna get guaranteed money. Haslam isn’t even a member of the club, of the club, and put his wife out in front of this. All the allegations that are, you know, can’t help, some of them must be true, huh, um. And then just what kind of a quarterback he’s been in the Joe Flacco thing last year, and Stefanski and Miles get these other guys like Joe Thomas a generation ago, giving like Ernie Banks their entire career to this lousy operation, and you’re now finding that it’s going to happen again. Mean, I don’t know that there’s any way around $80 million cap hits the next couple years. And what that means to the good people in the organization who are like, I’m in a prime of my career. I, you know, I’m, you know, pull a pull a Roger Dorn, you know, I’m not sacrificing my body for these plants.
Bernard Bokenyi 32:44
Uh, you know what Joe Thomas did was, was an anomaly. He very proudly wanted to play his entire career in Cleveland. He had a chance, if you recall, to be traded to Denver in the last couple years of his career, and he was still playing at a high Pro Bowl level. And he said, No,
Nestor Aparicio 32:57
take the rave work deal every time is what I say. What’s going
Bernard Bokenyi 33:02
8to happen here in Cleveland next two years? You’re right Nestor that they reworked the Deshaun Watson contract, first ever guaranteed contract in NFL history. So Steve Bucha was right to be upset about that, just because he didn’t want to pay out money. But what they’re going to be looking at is dead money and the the the roster we saw Mari Cooper get dealt recently here from Cleveland. I expect more to come. I think the conversation they’re going to have to have is with Miles Garrett. He’s still on the prime of his career. He’s an All Pro, he’s a Hall of Fame talent. And does he want to stick here? And I think they need to be honest with him and say the next two years are going to be awful. They’re going to be as bad as the one in 15 two year stretch we saw, and you need to be honest with miles, but it’s going to be terrible. But you asked about watching. Look, I still watch the games now. I root for them to lose. I want them to lose badly, because I want Jimmy Hassan to be frustrated. There was a game earlier this season, Jimmy have them had a fan kicked out of the stadium because the fan was mocking him the last few minutes something, he comes on the field, and I think to myself, my gosh, I have been thrown out of that stadium so many times because Jimmy hasn’t deserves to be mocked. And what he did to the rest of the NFL by guaranteeing a contract to a guy at that point who had two dozen sexual abuse allegations lodged against him, he gave a guarantee $250 million contract to that guy, and every NFL owner had every right to be frustrated about that, because, yes, I did set a new bar of ridiculousness. And Lamar Jackson wasn’t wrong for sitting there and saying, Hey, wait, what did he get? I’m better than him. And now you look at Deshaun Watson on the field, it’s clear he hasn’t given a flip about playing football. He has no chemistry with his receivers. Now he’s out for the year. Joe Flacco came in off the street last year. Nestor had three days of practice, and he gets Amari Cooper and David and Joe coupe to the Pro Bowl, and he was sitting in street clothes three days before. And Deshaun Watson, in two years, can’t develop chemistry, but the same guy. Is, come on, what Jimmy Haslam has done is just a joke, and the next two years, the Browns are going to be back to where they were. If I was Kevin Stefan’s gad went on here. I he’ll get a job in a heartbeat, if he’s made it available. He’s won the Coach of the Year twice, but they’re going to be so bad and
Nestor Aparicio 35:17
they sign him in the contract, right?
Bernard Bokenyi 35:18
They did. Just recently, Barry, they
Nestor Aparicio 35:20
both got money, right? They did, but it looked like it was coming together. I’ve had you on the show every year the last couple years, and you know, I mean, if they could have, if he could have played and at jurisprudence on his side, none of the above, though, and I don’t think there was any, ever any promise that it was gonna kind of quietly go away at another suit he had to settle five weeks ago. They’d
8Bernard Bokenyi 35:44
be a playoff team this year. They’d have kept Joe Flacco. I was so disappointed when they let Joe Flacco go to Indianapolis, and that’s got a pain. You’d see him in a cold film it. But when they why Joe Flacco led this team to playoffs, it wasn’t Deshaun Watson, it was Flacco. I don’t care that he’s a veteran and he’s not 24 years old. Joe Flacco would have this team in the playoffs right now. And you look at these decisions, give hits to this Deshaun Watson train, which has finally come to real now. He’s probably played his last down for the browns, and maybe in the league entirely now that he’s out for the year, I just don’t understand it, that they made a mistake, that they continue to just say, Well, you know, he’s our quarterback. He’s our quarterback. He showed no interest at all in learning this offense and having an A identity. And I’m at the point now where I want them to lose absolutely get as many draft picks, because it’s going to be painful. You might as well get take advantage of this draft coming up that you’ve got a once in a generation talent like Travis Hunter, who plays both ways in Colorado and wants to in the NFL. He may actually be able to pull it off. And if you can be a team that can trade that value, as we saw the bears trade away what the Panthers turned into Bryce young, and now their fortunes may be turning a little bit in Chicago. So I want the Browns to lose, but they’re going to be hard to watch the next two years, because, yeah, they’re going to be paying Deshaun Watson something like 70, $80 million next two years, whether he’s here or not. And that’s a tough pill to swallow. Broward McKinney
Nestor Aparicio 37:12
is my long time producer and my friend out in the land of Cleve and you know, the Yankees Dodgers. Anything you want to say about that just watching on the outside for the clever I mean, that that’s the thing with the Garden of Eden you talk about the original sin is just that’s where I am as a baseball fan, as an Oriole fan, as a journalist, as somebody that says the state’s giving this guy $600 million we haven’t met him yet. David Rubenstein, he’s been here five minutes. How is he going to run it, and what’s going to be? How’s it going to be? You know, because I’ve seen how it’s been the last 30 years. There’s a point in it, watching the guardians and watching this baseball thing to say, is any of this sustainable? And what will the model be? Because Cleveland, St Louis, couple places, it feels like even Tampa as a model. Say what you want about it. And place is empty all the time. Now, the roofs ripped off it. That’s not a very that’s that’s not good for the community. Having 8000 people at the ballpark, nobody there. I mean, it’s like the Miami thing, like, how does that help anybody? If you’re going to be a good citizen and a good community member and be involved in this, show me the plan. Give me the the North Star I can believe in for for baseball itself, let alone for the Orioles, because the Dodgers and the Yankees are spending this money. We know they’re going to do that. Tell me how gunner Henderson’s not going to be there five years from now. And you know, that’s an industry issue. It really is. Too
Bernard Bokenyi 38:39
many of these owners have made their money in business, whatever the line of business, they’re competing against other companies, the Dodgers, the Yankees, they’re not competing against the Dodgers, the Guardians, the rays. They’re they’re partners. It’s not good for the Yankees to be just what they are. You need the Tampa Bay Rays to succeed the Oakland 80s. Leaving Oakland was not a good thing, and that was the worst ballpark in baseball. You were there many times. It was awful. That used to be halfway decent the 80s. But the Yankees need all these teams to succeed. They’re not competing against each other, maybe on the field, but when it comes to revenue, they’re partners, and I just don’t ever feel that the Yankees and the Dodgers and some even the Cubs and the Red Sox have viewed other teams as partners, whereas the NFL, at least, has got that nobody hears the name of Green Bay Packers and says little old Green Bay, we
Nestor Aparicio 39:35
8don’t sit and even talk about football. Is Deshaun Watson. Can they afford a player like, right? It’s the first question in baseball is we can’t afford one Soto, you don’t ever think that. I mean, and even in LeBrons case, in Cleveland, like it wasn’t about affording players in basketball, it’s about making them feel like they can come and win and you can pay them. But. The baseball thing’s out of whack, and I think the fans are going to see that, and that’s part of the trauma. I mean, that’s part of what I’m talking about. That give me a reason to be bought in
Bernard Bokenyi 40:12
I’m hoping that you get that reason Nestor, because, first off, I’ve been to Baltimore enough you know this, there is a lot of passion, and you have that passion for the orals. I mean, just think about the precedent that you all set with, you know, with Camden Yards, you revolutionized the sport with your stadium. Everybody saw that and said, that’s what we need. You guys have got such a history. Hey, heck, babe. Ruth is from Baltimore, so I want to see every team succeed. But think about the Super Bowl. Anybody would watch the Packers against, oh, let’s just say the dolphins, you know. But would anybody watch the Miami Marlins and the now, I guess sacramental athletics? Would anybody watch that? If that was the World Series
Nestor Aparicio 40:55
this year? Well, obviously it’s like when the Tampa lightning or playing in the Stanley Cup, and they’re playing Calgary or whatever, right? Like it’s, it becomes very, very, not even regional. It’s hyper local, and baseball is hyper local, and that’s why this Dodger Yankee thing, it’s like our guardians and Orioles fans and Cardinals fans going to watch it. Hating both teams. I don’t know. I don’t really hate the Dodgers, but, but either way, Yankees, I can get down with hating Yankees. I’ll be be honest with that. That’s why I was rooting for the Cleveland guardians. Bernard McKinney was too. He is my Cleveland friend. Any parting shot for me? Man, it’s good to see you and see some rock and roll with you. I’d always wanted to get out to blossom, and I it was a bucket list thing, and the minute I walked in, especially with you, wouldn’t have been the same, because I went the next night. It wasn’t the same, but it was great. But that venue is just, that’s a treasure. That venue, it’s beautiful.
Bernard Bokenyi 41:48
I agree. I tell you, Nestor, in the last 10 years, being away from the sports, I am much more into music. In fact, I just got, I got my CD tower to my right over here. I just got a shipment yesterday in the US Postal Service of six new CDs. I still buy my CDs. I still love my music. I go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame all the time. I’m much more invested in the the live music. My wife and I there’s better value, even though tickets are take concert. Tickets are not cheap. You know, we saw back in the future the musical this year. I appreciate that a lot more than I would have sitting at a Browns game. I haven’t gone to a Browns game in
8Nestor Aparicio 42:25
18 years. No, it’s amazing, dude is we’ve 1000s and 1000s of dollars we have not spent. I mean, I would have been on a plane in Tampa, in hotel room in Tampa, buying tickets for my wife. My wife always bought tickets on the road. We always bought tickets at home. I had two tickets. I had four tickets for every game the first 24 years, and PSLs, I mean 10, not 10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of dollars. I’ve called it millions, because I bought so many other tickets from the team on behalf of keeping people out of fights in Section 513, people, sponsors, friends, fans, listeners, road trips, planes, Wembley, two Super Bowl like the whole deal. And I think to myself, if I never spend another nickel on baseball or football or hockey, I’m I’m gonna have a lot of money left. And even seeing sting last week for 46 bucks down at MGM and get a late ticket, and having a great seat, you know where the money is going. And also, when I’m at these concerts, $18 beers, and saying, how thirsty am I? And I’m thinking to myself, how thirsty would I be at a football game or baseball game if I paid 280 to be there to see a blowout or to see a load management game, where I come and I, you know, I come down to see the Cavaliers and the star player comes to town and doesn’t play.
Bernard Bokenyi 43:44
It’s a different reality. But I think we all, we all have to look at and prioritize what is important to us. I still watch the browns. I’m not going to lie. I’ve watched just about every snap, but I laugh now, but I’m part of the problem because I’m still watching I, you know, I spend the money on the YouTube Red Zone channel, you know. So I’m still part of the problem, but, oh, I definitely more into the music scene myself. Down Nestor, and it was, it was great to get to see you this summer, and we definitely need to do it again sometime. I
Nestor Aparicio 44:13
keep telling my wife, you know, how good that show was. Wang, Chung, man, everybody was down. Get down and cleave. That’s a rock and roll capital universe, right there. You got your totally tubular backstage that I began this with David Lee Roth beat before, because I was late getting here, and I said to you, I don’t feel target. I didn’t do that. One of the heirs, I did it. So I would say to you that the David Lee Roth my favorite one. And this is the Yankee rose. And it’s not just, I’ll have a glazed doughnut, not just that one. My favorite one is give that girl a backstage pass. So, yeah, so you when you have the give Bernard McKinney that totally tubular backstage pass. My friends in Cleveland, I have a lot of friends out in Cleveland and Ohio. I hope you all get well after the Guardians. Instant. In and for that, I’m rooting for the Dodgers on your behalf, just to get even with the Yankees World Series is around. Luke is running back and forth to owing smells. I will be in Owings Mills giving away Raven scratch offs from the Maryland lottery. On Friday, we’re going to be at mama’s on the half show with my new friend Finn McCusker. I knew his dad very well. Didn’t know Finn until the oyster recovery partnership last month. We’re doing that on behalf of our friends at Liberty, pure solutions and curio wellness. The new oyster tour category is out on the front of Baltimore positive. We did 26 oysters in 26 days. Ray Bachmann’s oysters this week. I think it was day seven down at Mike’s. And Reba Ray is battling cancer. If you can afford to help him, it’s in your heart to help him. He is a GoFundMe page out, and if nothing else, you can certainly send him some cheer and some love. He is alert and reading all my texts. The worst thing is he’s battling this thing where, like, I can’t make him laugh and I can’t feed him food. So I feel so freaking helpless. So I’m going to be talking a lot about it around here this week, because there’s not much you can do, as my wife was, you know, a two time survivor. So we’re sending Ray good wishes, and I don’t want to say anything funny in case he’s watching, because if I made him laugh, it would be painful for him. So I can laugh, and you can laugh, and we can laugh, but I can’t make Ray laugh, and that’s the worst thing in the world, because our whole relationship was based on laughter. So no laughs for Ray Bachman, I’m going to purposely not be funny the rest of the month. That alone is funny. I’m Nestor. We are wnsda in 1570 towns in Baltimore. We’ll see Friday at mamas. You.
