Making a debate over Hall of Fame credentials of Yanda and Suggs

Who goes in first? Will they both go in at all? Luke Jones and Nestor debate the final steps for Baltimore Ravens’ Terrell Suggs and Marshal Yanda to make the next step toward Hall of Fame induction after being finalists again at Costas Inn in Timonium as part of “A Cup Of Soup Or Bowl” Week.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Hall of Fame credentials of Terrell Suggs and Marshal Yanda. They noted that neither player was inducted this year, despite making the final seven. Luke highlighted Suggs’ achievements, including being eighth all-time in sacks and first in tackles for loss, but pointed out his light All-Pro selections and being overshadowed by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. They also debated the impact of off-field issues on Suggs’ induction chances. For Yanda, his consistent Pro Bowl appearances and the team’s decline post-injury were cited as strong points. They concluded that both players are likely to be inducted soon.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Give Maryland Lottery Candy Cane Cash tickets to friends attending the Timonium Costa’s event (specifically Bill Kohl and Todd Schiller) while representing GBMC and the Maryland Lottery

Discussion on Super Bowl and Hall of Fame Induction

• Nestor Aparicio introduces the segment, mentioning the Super Bowl and Hall of Fame, and expresses his excitement for the event.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the Super Bowl coverage on NFL Network and the excitement around the event.
• Nestor mentions the disappointment of Terrell Suggs and Marshal Yanda not getting inducted into the Hall of Fame.
• Luke Jones explains the complex voting process for the Hall of Fame and the expectations for Ravens players.

Expectations and Previous Inductions

• Luke Jones discusses the expectations for Terrell Suggs and Marshal Yanda, comparing them to other Hall of Famers like Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis.
• Nestor asks if anyone has made it to the final seven and not gotten in, and Luke Jones mentions Willie Anderson as an example.
• Luke Jones explains the voting process, including the 15 finalists, the final seven, and the 80% threshold for induction.
• The discussion touches on the political aspects of the voting process and the induction of candidates like Roger Craig.

Arguments for and Against Induction

• Luke Jones argues that Terrell Suggs and Marshal Yanda have strong cases for Hall of Fame induction, despite not being first-ballot inductees.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the impact of off-field issues, such as cheating, on Suggs’ induction chances.
• Luke Jones highlights Suggs’ achievements, including his sack and tackle for loss records, and his leadership role in his later career.
• Nestor expresses skepticism about Suggs’ induction, citing his character and the impact of being overshadowed by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

Comparing Positions and Achievements

• Luke Jones compares the positions of Suggs and Yanda, noting the historical underrepresentation of guards in the Hall of Fame.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the longevity and impact of Yanda’s career, including his role in the team’s success.
• Luke Jones mentions the importance of All-Pro selections and the impact of being overshadowed by other players.
• The discussion includes the challenges of comparing different positions and the historical context of Hall of Fame inductions.

Historical Context and Personal Opinions

• Nestor and Luke Jones reflect on the historical context of Hall of Fame inductions, including the impact of positions and individual achievements.
• Luke Jones mentions the challenges of evaluating players with unique careers, such as Kurt Warner and Dan Marino.
• The discussion touches on the subjective nature of Hall of Fame voting and the importance of personal opinions.
• Nestor and Luke Jones express their personal opinions on the Hall of Fame inductions, including their views on character and off-field issues.

Reflections on Super Bowl Experiences

• Nestor and Luke Jones reminisce about their experiences at Super Bowl events, including the changes over the years.
• Nestor shares memories of early Super Bowl events, including the informal nature of radio row and the interactions with other media members.
• Luke Jones discusses the evolution of Super Bowl events, including the impact of NFL Network and the changes in media coverage.
• The conversation highlights the differences between past and present Super Bowl experiences, including the impact of technology and media changes.

Final Thoughts and Future Plans

• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss their thoughts on the future of Super Bowl events and their personal involvement.
• Nestor reflects on the changes in media coverage and the impact of new technologies on the experience.
• Luke Jones shares his thoughts on the importance of attending Super Bowl events and the value of the experiences.
• The conversation concludes with reflections on the importance of personal experiences and the impact of changes in the industry.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

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Terrell Suggs, Marshal Yanda, Hall of Fame, Super Bowl, NFL Network, voting process, first ballot, character clause, defensive end, guard, longevity, Pro Bowl, All-Pro selections, cheating allegations, position value.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones, Speaker 1

Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive, positively here doing a cup of soup or bowl. We’re gonna take a little break from the charity, although I may be the charity before this whole segment is over with Luke Jones. Now we’re out here at Costas, and we’re in Timonium. We’re doing it all for GBMC and our friends at Candy Cane cash in the Maryland lottery. It’s my last day on candy cane cash. I’m running out of eggnog at home. I’m running out of all of the things that have made the holidays so special. But we’re in February. It’s Super Bowl, it’s Hall of Fame. We’re not at the Super Bowl. We’re doing a cup of Super Bowl. And Luke and I have done this many times where we’ve gone off the San Francisco I NFL Network Super Bowl coverage is on the on the TV behind me. I’ve been watching it all week, and I don’t know that I’m missing anything, but it is amazing these Grammy shows they have, and the jokes that are told and every year, whether it’s

Speaker 1  00:56

did Lamar win, or did the market screwed, or did met staff forget screwed?

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Nestor Aparicio  01:01

You know, like, I don’t know what with all those arguments. And then there’s the well, we have two players in yonder and Suggs, who are up for Hall of Fame induction, and neither one gets in. And you were on red alert with the W NST tech service brought to you by Call Roofing and Gordian energy. And I went to bed like right from went to bed was rough 10 o’clock and I saw that neither one got in. You’re not shocked by that, right? No, I mean, how you weren’t expecting them to get in?

Luke Jones  01:29

I wouldn’t say I wouldn’t. Wasn’t that. I wasn’t expecting them, but we see what the process is. I mean, Bill Belichick, and look, I understand the cheating element. I fully understand that, but it’s still Bill Belichick, and it’s still someone who coached six Super Bowl titles and defensive coordinator for two others. He’s as close as you get to first ballot territory, right? I mean, regardless of that element of it, and he didn’t get in, Robert Kraft didn’t get in, right? We’ve seen plenty of all time, great players not get in on the first ballot, I think for Ravens fans, specifically spoiled. And let me rephrase that, not spoiled, but an expectation is created when Jonathan Ogden is a first ballot, Ray Lewis is a first ballot. They were better players, and they were better players, very clearly. But those guys, we’re talking about those three, Ogden, Ray, Lewis, Ed Reed, those are Hall of Famers. Amongst the Hall of Famers, they’re best of the best. Terrell Suggs and Marshall yonda, who I both fully expect, are going to be in the Hall of Fame. And I think it’s going to happen sooner than later, because they made it to the final seven.

Nestor Aparicio  02:40

But has anybody made it to the final seven and not gotten in? I mean, I’m just trying to think of people that are always on the doorstep there.

Luke Jones  02:46

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Well, Willie Anderson, I know, has been in that group. He was in that group again this year. So he was raided 30 years ago. I know, right. I mean, right, he was and that was first year, yeah, so that, yes, there have been some individuals who get into that territory and don’t get any further. I don’t, I can’t say off the top of my head, names that made it that to that group multiple times and then ultimately never got in. But we know how this works. We know from as complicated as the voting process is. You know, they had the 15 finalists. They trim it to 10, they trim it to seven, no more than five are going to get in, but there’s an 80% threshold. But if no one gets in, then they take the height, like I said, it’s complicated, and then you get into the situations like what you have with that blue ribbon senior group, whatever you want to call it, that some politicking starts right? And then you have someone like Roger Craig, who hasn’t played in a very, very long time. I mean, he was at the end of his career from when I barely first start remembering watching football, and he gets in and, look, I’m not sitting here to be disparaging of Roger Craig, but when you have candidates like that who have been on the doorstep and they’ve waited and they’ve waited and they’ve waited decades, sometimes

Nestor Aparicio  03:59

then you have not gonna cry for Terrell Suggs.

Luke Jones  04:02

You have someone that’s not you have someone like Suggs or yonda who, to me, have rock solid cases that they’re going to be in looking at it objectively, but do I view them through the lens of, oh my gosh, they need to be first ballot no questions asked in the way that you felt that way about Ogden Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, where they were going to jump the line. Suggs and yonda, for me, aren’t quite in that territory, but they’ve, they’ve been the in the group of 15 finalists their first two years. They made it to the Group of Seven in their second year. I think it’s trending very well that they’re both going to get in. And I’m guessing it’s not going to be another 15 years. I’m guessing, my early prediction. When you look at some of the first ballot guys next year, and it’s a pretty good list, what Gronkowski, Ben Roethlisberger, someone else, off the top of my head that is escaping me, but I’m not saying it’s gonna be both those guys next year. I’m guessing so they can

Nestor Aparicio  04:56

line ahead. Yeah, well, they do, but I’m guessing it’s Gerald. Getting in also is one of those things.

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Luke Jones  05:01

I mean, Drew Brees wasn’t going to wait. Larry Fitzgerald wasn’t going to wait. I mean, Vine Terry had waited a little while here.

Nestor Aparicio  05:08

It’s interesting. When you put a kicker next to a guard next to an edge setter, sack guy, I feel better about yonda than I do about Suggs for a lot of reasons. And we can get into the bleach and into the honor, into the cheating, because I think that matters. Every time I talk to a voter, they’re like, that doesn’t matter. I’m like, it’s an honor. It’s it’s an honor. Well, just matters what they did on the field.

Luke Jones  05:35

See, I would say that like cheating elements that that does relate to the field. So I would say there is an element to that off field, legal issues, things of that nature.

Nestor Aparicio  05:46

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If you spray your wife with bleach, or you put on somebody at a start, no character. I don’t want to honor you. I’m not

Luke Jones  05:53

gonna, but that’s the

Nestor Aparicio  05:53

Nestor Hall of Fame. That’s not the pro football. Pro football of him is already backwards. They can’t even check. But I’m just saying, then when they don’t get Bella chicken, they say it’s because he cheated. Okay, well, then, then you are going character, Then aren’t you, okay? But really,

Luke Jones  06:06

again, there’s an on field element to that. Terrell sucks Personal life While you are, or me, or anyone might have very strong thoughts about that. I don’t think that had

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Nestor Aparicio  06:15

any Hall of Fame. Let’s fix the criteria then,

Luke Jones  06:18

in regard to okay, but that’s a different I mean, that’s a different, great argument, though, I think. But if we’re looking at it objectively, based on what the standards are, Terrell Suggs is a Hall of Famer, and I would say this there, to me, there are two elements at work that probably have contributed to him not being a first ballot, because he’s eighth all time in sacks, and I understand sacks, we’re not an official time, but, yeah, but eight, he is first all time in tackles for a loss. He’s way up there in force fumbles. But two things I think hurt him ultimately, in the first ballot conversation here, over these, you know, and second ballot, I guess now we could say one, only two all pro selections, one first team, one second team. That’s a little light, compared to some other contemporaries for him and the other one. And I think, and I’ll give you a reason why, I think he helped himself, but he was overshadowed by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed for over half of his career. I mean, again, it goes back to those are the best. Those are guys that have arguments as the greatest of all time at their specific position, whereas, as much as I think Terrell Suggs is a Hall of Famer, he’s not anywhere in the argument for me as the greatest defensive end or edge rusher or outside linebacker in and that’s

Nestor Aparicio  07:30

why I make him the hall very good of the hall Excellent. And I’ve called him a borderline Hall of Famer, and I think that’s that’s borderline, meaning he didn’t need to get in the first ballot, a second ballot or third ballot, but he’ll get in because borderline guys get in, yeah. But to your point, guys get in line. Guys aren’t getting in line ahead of guys. And that’s how people that you really believe are first ballot. Hall of Famer, Bill Belichick, yeah, don’t get voted on, because you look at it and say, well, Terrell Suggs made a hell of a lot more tackles than him. Marshall yonda was a great was it? You know, I think a generational guard for what he wound up being at the end, and especially. And my argument for Marshall yonda, if I were making the argument, would be, they fell apart when he left. And that, that’s always an argument for me. When Ray Lewis left, things went downhill. When John Ogden left, things went downhill. And when I see that, it lets you know their eliteness to borrow. Joe Flacco turn

Luke Jones  08:26

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Yeah, so So to go back to, I’m gonna finish my point on Suggs. So I said the idea that he was overshadowed by two all time greats. I mean, guys that are, if you had a Hall of Fame amongst the Hall of Famers, they would be in that so you have that factor. I mentioned the All Pro selections being a little bit on the lighter side, and having talked to voters and us talking to voters over the years, I do know All Pro selection carries a little little more weight than just Pro Bowlers. As you were the best at the position that here either best or second best, and even yonda has a few

Nestor Aparicio  09:00

best defensive player in the world for a year, 2011 for a year.

Luke Jones  09:04

So now that said, where I think he augments his argument. And I remember vividly you and I talking about this circa 2016 1718, I think back to the 2015 season. Suggs pops his Achilles in Denver in week one. There was very much a question at that point in time whether one that was going to be it for him with the ravens, and two like, was that it for him in terms of being an impactful player. So he comes back in 1617, and 18, and had, you know, not all first team, all pro Defensive Player of the Year seasons, but really good season. Productive mid 30s. Really good season. So, so that kind of

Nestor Aparicio  09:41

speaks to His law, his longevity, right? Is his case. And I if he had ended his career 31 he’s Chad Brown, yeah. I mean, literally, Chad’s a hell of a replay. So there

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Luke Jones  09:50

was that, all that. I think when you dig into his profile a little bit deeper, I think if you talk to some of his teammates from that era, so we’re talking. In post Super Bowl 47 he took on more of a leadership role in terms of football, the meeting rooms, things of that nature. Now, was he ever the dynamic leader of Ray Lewis? Was he ever the football crazy and when he did at that point? But, but there’s still value to that. It doesn’t mean that that’s completely meaningless. So he had that second act to his career,

Nestor Aparicio  10:21

my least favorite person I ever covered. So like, for a lot of reasons, because I witnessed it all, but I would say that is a benefit to him. Sure that you’re making a case that he grew up in his 30s. Yeah, he hung around long enough to be a grown up to then, after his career, pull a gun on somebody at a startup. So I it always goes back to that for me to say, I’m honoring this person. Is this person worthy of honoring as a football player? And I can, I can look at it and say, Hall of very good for me. And I guess the Jimmy the Greek, the intangibles, as I see it, I think he was a fantastic I mean, I’m not trying to even disparage him as a player. I don’t look at him and put him anywhere near Ray Lewis, John Ogden or Ed Reed.

Luke Jones  11:08

He’s and there are a lot of guys and other Hall of Famers that I would say the same thing about, absolutely.

Nestor Aparicio  11:13

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So Adam Vinatieri, you know? I mean, so, yeah, so, so

Luke Jones  11:17

to me that Suggs look. Suggs played a splash here, more premier position than guards. Guards have historically been underrepresented, underrepresented in the Hall of Fame.

Nestor Aparicio  11:27

I mean, because they’re have a hard time getting in above

Luke Jones  11:31

stats, right? It’s not, it’s not the jersey that most fans are wearing on Sundays, right? I mean, I’ll give you an example of someone who waited a really long time. Randall McDaniel, seven time, first team, all pros, two time, second team, all Pro, 12 Pro Bowls. He waited a long time, like really long time, to make the Hall of Fame. That’s a better profile, just looking at that at first blush, than Marshall yonders. However you look at Marshall yonder, eight time Pro Bowl player, I think from a narrative standpoint, it’s interesting that it wasn’t really until his fifth season in the NFL that he finally settled on a position. Remember, he was playing tackle, he was playing guard, he was hurt, he’s playing tackle again. 2011 he finally settles into playing right guard, and he had close to a decade run from that point on. It was eight years where and

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Nestor Aparicio  12:20

made the switch as he talked about with us at length, yeah, up at Green mount station.

Luke Jones  12:23

So you know, mate made the switch at left left guard because of a shoulder injury.

Nestor Aparicio  12:27

You want to hear a great conversation. Go find our no question our chat with Marshall yonder late in his career. I was unbelievable.

Luke Jones  12:33

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He was a I had actually forgotten this. I knew he was on the all decade the Pro Football Hall of Fame had votes on an all decade team every year. I knew he had made it for the 2010s he was a unanimous selection. Terrell Suggs was not on an all decade team,

Nestor Aparicio  12:47

so I think of the body of work. I think a yonda being Hall of Fame, no doubt about it. Terrell Suggs, I can make a case either way. Longevity helps him. Yeah, I think the position hurts him, but that there were so many other people doing that job like I agree that Ed Reed Ray Lewis, part hurts him. I don’t know what hurts yonda, other than just being

Luke Jones  13:06

a guard, right, like literally, and I really think that’s what it is. Now, I would say this. Jarry Evans, who was on the 15 List of 15 finalists. He was not in the group of seven. I thought a year ago, yonda might have to wait behind him, but the fact that he was in the final seven this year tells me there might be a little more momentum for him to get in before Evans, which bodes well for him. It just guards slow. It’s a slow position in terms of Willie Anderson’s facing this at right tackle. I i Forget I saw this on social media, actually, earlier this morning, so I I can’t say I can bet for it, but my understanding was there’s been one right tackle, true right tackle, inducted in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And, man, it’s like a really long time. I don’t say all time, but it might be in the last 15 or 20 years, like that’s out of whack, right there. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a position, I get it, left tackle, very valuable quarterback,

Nestor Aparicio  14:03

bullpen guys in a

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Luke Jones  14:03

hall of fame? Yeah, I mean, and that’s the thing, and that’s what’s tough, because you do it is a factor, like, like, the idea, like, No, I don’t think there should be as many kickers in the Hall of Fame as quarterbacks, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any kickers in the Hall of Fame. You know what? I mean. So, like, but how do you get a kicker that venetary? I mean, he’s one of those guys. It’s one of those positions right there where you get into the can you tell the story the National Football League without that individual, Adam Vinatieri, I mean, the tuck rule game alone, let alone the fact that he kicked a game winner, you know, a couple game winners in the Super Bowl, but that alone tells you is Hall of Famer, but he wasn’t a first ballot. Guys that kick

Nestor Aparicio  14:40

in the tuck game is the same as, like, the Mile High mirror. I mean, it’s in winning the

Luke Jones  14:44

Super Bowl. I think raybo even said during Super Bowl week that that’s the most miraculous thing he see it on a football field. Was what it was a 45 yarder. I think it was the one that forced overtime, yeah, against the Raiders. I watched that in a ballroom. I watched that recently, again, like that was on. It was. On NFL Network or something. We were all Ravens fans at a hotel in Pittsburgh. Watch. I mean, it was why everyone talked about what the weather was for the AFC Championship game this year. I mean, this was snow that had piled up on the field. This wasn’t an inch, this wasn’t a dusting. This wasn’t, oh, what? It’s fun. It looks like a winter. I mean, it was snow, inches of snow, yeah, and he hit that. I mean, it think about, I mean, think about the history of that game, what that meant for Tom Brady’s career, what that meant for the Patriots dynasty, what that meant for John Gruden and the Raiders. I mean, like that was a wild sequence of events there that, not saying that Tom Brady never comes, becomes Tom Brady without that. But you

Nestor Aparicio  15:41

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don’t know. I thought, not anti Adam Vinatieri. Oh, and I’m an Adam Vinatieri at the expense of Bill Belichick or or Willie Anderson. Is, you know, this is what we’re you’re saying. We’re gonna put three fruits in the Hall of Fame, and you’re gonna bring me 25 fruits. They’re all worthy. Kiwis are delicious, yeah. And Apple’s delicious, especially when it’s ripe. And put an orange in there, you got to put an apple in there,

Luke Jones  16:05

you know. And then you get down to very simplistic positional value again, like Adam Vinatieri might be the greatest kicker of all time, least certainly in that space, Terrell Suggs isn’t the greatest edge rusher of all time, or even in like the top five. Well, who would I rather have? Who would I have rather had for the bulk of their career in terms of the value and how great they are? Terrell Suggs, because outside linebackers and edge rushers and pass rushers are more

Nestor Aparicio  16:27

valuable in America. Who made more money?

Luke Jones  16:31

And look at the end of the day, I find, as I get older, with these types of things, especially when you see the voting process being as complicated as it is, the idea that you have imperfect people voting right, we’ve talked about this way more on the baseball side. Never really want to do in your life. No, no, oh, you would take it, because, honestly, I wouldn’t feel worthy of that responsibility, of how pivotal that responsibility is for someone’s legacy, for what that means for some in a post playing career

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Nestor Aparicio  17:05

20 years, man, you’re as qualified as anybody I know, and you would take it more seriously. You would be more student. I would be very

Speaker 2  17:11

humbled by it up and up. I don’t know. I just feel there be. I can’t if I die.

Nestor Aparicio  17:17

Because, you know, I’ve met I know Jameson Hensley. I know Jeff Rebecca. I know Mike Brad i i know Scott Garcia. I mean, I just like, it’s,

Luke Jones  17:24

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I think it’s, and this is one, one reason that, like the Pro Football focuses of the world and analytics sites that were that are becoming so, not becoming, I mean, they’re so in vogue, and they have been for a decade now. I don’t watch every single teams game to as in a detailed manner, in the way I watch the Ravens every week. Now, I’ll go and watch as much as I can. I’ll review it. Cover the league. You cover the raid, and that’s just, but that’s tough, like the idea of, you know, and this jared allen got in last year, right? And I know there were a lot of Ravens fans that weren’t happy about that. Look, I think Terrell Suggs had a better overall career than jared allen. However, jared allen had been in line for a few years. And do I think Suggs his career was so much better than Jared Allen’s that it warranted Suggs had better play, no but that. But the idea is, I watched Terrell Suggs entire career, first as a fan and then covering him for comparing wouldn’t be, right? That would have just, I feel weird about that, right? So, and it’s just tough. There’s so football is baseball. One reason I love baseball is, I’m a nerd. I love math. You know, you’ve got numbers that, even now we’ve created, numbers that have helped to standardize. You know, you’ve got league adjusted, you know, with ballparks and arrows, all of that football, you have 22 individuals on the field for every single play. You have, what, eight officials trying to look at everything they can on every single play. You have all these different elements at work that I think it’s just really difficult as an out from an outside perspective, meaning, like, I didn’t know what the play call was, I don’t know what everyone’s assignment was. I don’t know if the wind happened to blow on that particular play. I don’t know what the footing was on the field, on that specific play, that part of the field. I just think there are so many variables at work that I think I would really, you know, if, hypothetically, someone was foolish enough to say, hey, you get a Hall of Fame vote, I think I would just paralysis by analysis. Would just, it would be excruciating.

Nestor Aparicio  19:25

Pairing Luke keikley to to Marshall yonder to Adam vegetarian. I mean, Bill Belichick. That’s why I keep going back to

Luke Jones  19:33

it’s, it’s tough. I mean, like, subjective. I mean, Luke keekley had concussions, but his peak was unbelievable, right? How do you compare that to? And I don’t want to say Ray, well, Tony would be

Nestor Aparicio  19:45

Zach Thomas or Yeah, but there is it that are truncated. Kirby Puckett, I mean, Terrell Terrell Davis

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Luke Jones  19:51

was a huge debate point for a long time. Kurt Warner, who had this very strange career, right, where it took him so long to get to that point. He had his run with the Rams, he goes to the Giants. Everyone thinks his career is over, and then he goes to the Cardinals, and he’s an MVP quarterback again. I mean, like, how do you evaluate that? Compared to Dan Marino, who never got to a Super Bowl after his second year, but when he retired, owned how many different records that have since been broken? But, I mean, it’s just so many of these guys, it’s just, and part of this is what’s fun. I mean, like you and I can sit here and debate it and talk about it, and I don’t want

Nestor Aparicio  20:30

to argue about it all day with people. I don’t want to take calls. I agree, you know, and in the same way that I were talking about at the bar when I came in, what did you think? And I’m like, you know, yeah, I’m one of those people like you that are on the Hall of voters. I mean, there’s only 10 people that have covered this team for 30 years, 1010, people throw Jerry Sandusky in there. But there are not a lot of people that, there’s nobody that see more football than me going to games so, but would I be qualified? Yeah. I mean, I get, I know what I do it, but I think it’s your Yeah, but no matter what, I think it’s subjective. Sure How much homework I would do. Short case I would make for or against anybody, it’s still about your fee, fees. It’s a it’s all feeling,

Luke Jones  21:12

let’s face it, there over we’re talking now over 100 years of the history of the NFL in the same applies in Major League Baseball, right? The same applies in the NHL and the NBA, you have this expansive history that much of it predates. I mean, in the case of baseball, even radio, let alone television, to have anything other than what limited records and box scores and all that that we have right now, we both know as people who love baseball and football, there are people in the Hall of Fame who have no business being in the Hall of Fame whatsoever. And I’m not even going to get into off field per you know, personality, morals, anything like that, just pure accomplishments on the field. There are people in that have no business being in and then I’m sure there are individuals especially go back to those who played in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s, like Marshall yonda of 1945 who has long since been forgotten. But if anyone were still around today that watched them closely would say it’s a travesty that that individual isn’t in the Hall of Fame. So yeah, at the end of the day, we can try to make this as scientific as we can, and certain positions lend itself to that. But we also know that, you know, it’s funny,

Nestor Aparicio  22:27

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I me being against Terrell Suggs would not stop him from getting in if the rest of the people liked him, right? I mean, so that’s that is my prerogative to say I’m not, I’m not down with cheaters, I’m not down with whatever it or I’m not down with kickers, or I’m not down with right?

Luke Jones  22:44

Where I will push back on that a little bit is if the league, if not the league, the Pro Football Hall of Fame has explicitly said that there is not a morality clause or a character clause in the way that the National Baseball Hall of Fame does have that then, in the

Nestor Aparicio  22:58

same way that after OJ Simpson, they’re trying to throw him out of the hall of fame, right? Like, put him in, take him out, put you there’s, there’s a tycob, right? You take racist out of the Baseball Hall of Fame, you’d have to create a whole new wing. Like, literally, right?

Luke Jones  23:11

So racist or not, you were talking years too. You’re talking about decades of players who played pre

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Nestor Aparicio  23:17

25 years. About Baseball Hall of Fame being about cheating, whether it was about Pete Rosen gambling or whether it was about Barry Bonds and drugs. And as I wrote it out, about it helped Roger Clemens.

Luke Jones  23:27

And as I pointed out to you, the 1951 giants have openly spoken about the fact that they had a pretty sophisticated cheating system in place that helped them erase their big deficit against the Brooklyn Dodgers and Bobby Thompson hits the home run and all that. Right? So, you know, I mean, it’s, there’s a lot of

Nestor Aparicio  23:45

in the real world when you a lot of skeleton, I’ve known you 20 years. If I cheated you or lied to you, or you lead it cheated me or lied to me, ever it, kind of the level of trust would be over in any real relationship. And that’s why I have a problem, you know. So, like, even with Jesse Minter, I looked him up about the well, was just a level two vibe. Well, he’s willing to cheat recruiting. He’s willing to cheat, you know, he’s willing and but then I looked up Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh and Andy Reid. Andy Reid cheated more than you think he’s cheated, lied more than you think he’s live like, that’s

Luke Jones  24:19

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that’s the game, just like the game. We’re talking about imperfect people playing a game that we love.

Nestor Aparicio  24:25

Well, in the real world, you cheat me or lie to me probably once, and that’s probably once too many and that. But sports doesn’t work that way. Kids said, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying the whole Jim Rome thing. And I’m like, go, go rob Pete. Go steal from the guy who owns the place here, or lie to the guy that owns the place here, or lie to me as your friend. If we’re just getting a beer together tonight, you’re lying to me and cheating me. If you cheat me at anything, I’m gonna race track here. You cheated me in here. I would want nothing to do with you, because I would be afraid of you cheating me again. So I think sports is really i. To look the other way on all of it, right? But we don’t expect that. We expect them to cheat in trying and cheat in practicing, and cheat in every way that Harbaugh is cheated, or his brother, or any of the other Bill Belichick cheating.

Luke Jones  25:12

Because if someone commits a penalty, Isn’t that cheating? You know what? I’m allies for that, but I’m, but I’m just,

Nestor Aparicio  25:19

I just here is cheating. There’s cheating, and then there’s, I just think it’s like lying about it, destroying the tapes, doing all of those things that go beyond a holding penalty on third down.

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Luke Jones  25:32

Understood, but where is that line? Where’s the line between Gamesman, which has existed, humanity which has existed. Humanity is imperfect across the board, but

Nestor Aparicio  25:43

that’s relationship I told the kid here earlier, like every relationship I’ve ever ended. If you’re about lying or cheating or see I trust every, every relationship,

Luke Jones  25:53

but, but if, but if our relationships are based on being perfection, then we wouldn’t have any relationships whatsoever. I’m gonna come

Nestor Aparicio  25:59

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sit at your church on Sunday. You’ll clean me off. I was just, I was just, I mean, I’m just just saying Luke Jones is here. He’s Baltimore, Luke, you got anything else you want to do on football? I mean, we’ll do after the game, whatever. What last thing for you guys? This is good because we’re doing a cup of Super Bowl where it comes you and I in a flat world. If there were no Chad steel, if there were no nonsense, shenanigans, bullshit that the Ravens have pulled with us. We’d be in San Francisco right now, and it would be 10 in the morning, and we probably be a little hungover from being a Tommy’s last night, probably little bit, and it would be the last day. I’m just

Speaker 2  26:31

thinking of a margarita.

Nestor Aparicio  26:33

I got a bar right here so and I know how to make it even better. So we’re not at Super Bowl week anymore, and I watch it from afar now, after participating for 27 consecutive years, we’re on fourth year being thrown out, or whatever it is. I watch it now from afar, and I saw the line that Dan Levitt put up to get into the bad bunny press conference. And, you know, and I want I walked in. Ross Tucker was on the screen there, and I’m like, why can just text Ross right now you know and get you know. So there is a point for me. I miss running into Mike silver. I miss drinking margaritas with Brian Baldinger. I miss being there all day and meeting new people, people I’ve never met. You know, people I’ve wanted to meet, people that were old friends, who come up say hello or whatever. But in a general zooming out on it, it’s not as big a deal as it used to be. It doesn’t come to me in that way. It’s overwrought. The flag football game, the media thing got moved to a tent the other day. It’s watching it from the outside and doing this all week, and being busy and trying to shovel out of snow and being here, I think to myself, I’m glad I went when I went. I went during the glory era as Dave shining I can this week, and the Washington Post has gone to hell in a hand basket. And I think about radio row, what radio represented, and radio being there. And, you know, Ryan ripkins there with a podcast, and Ed blocks there with the podcast, and the gambling, and all gambling, bet, bet, bet, bet, and I don’t know, man, I watch it and I see it and I’m like, it’s not for me anymore, and I don’t and I’m not invited anymore, and I’m okay with it, but I’m not glued to it in the way that not only being immersed in it or being there, being interested in who wins some award, or what the speech is, or what the Grammys look like. They’ve really cased this thing out and made it homogenized to me, from the outside, it feels like forced, fair enough.

Luke Jones  28:35

Forced Fair enough. I mean, I think it’s a lot like life. You know, what you’re speaking about is, you know, that was a previous season that correct, was amazing. And I would say this, I think the league, you know, and this goes to what you were just saying, they don’t really want a lot of those people there, so it doesn’t mean they won’t grant them the opportunity to be there, but it doesn’t mean that it’s going to be an authentic, great experience, necessarily, whereas 25 years ago, when you were going, and long before I went to my first Super Bowl,

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Nestor Aparicio  29:05

it was probably a press it was

Luke Jones  29:07

more organic then. Yeah, so I walked in. How many things do we say that about with life in general? You know what? I don’t know. I’ve told you the story of

Nestor Aparicio  29:15

radio row in 1992 two was in Minnesota, and it was in a conference room at the Hyatt in downtown Minneapolis. I ran into Keith Mills, and I was stealing the pay phone in the lobby, doing the show with spear maricus, that right there just speaks to Okay. So 93 was Leon let 94 was the other it was no, no. I did not go to the Miami chargers 49 I did not go to that game. Then I went to everyone after that. Okay, so that the next one I went to was Phoenix, Neil O’Donnell, Barry Switzer, okay, so that. Radio row was a place you’ve been the Hyatt in downtown Phoenix. It was in the hotel. It was in a bigger, sort of a ballroom. It was like a hotel ballroom. It was in and you didn’t need a credential. I like. I walked to the door and I said I was with the media. Now, you and I walked tackled, and I walked in. I walked in. So I walked in, and I had, at that point, a phone, a cell phone, a cellular one brick phone, gray brick phone. And I did. I had a camera with me. I was with my buddy, Dave Pike, and I went in that day, and I was on the radio. At that time. We had just gotten the ravens, but they weren’t here yet. They still might have been in Cincinnati, and there was all this shell game going on. And I went through and I met Dick shapp That day, and I had Dick shap on the show that day, and he could not have been a nicer man to me. Cool. At that moment I had, I’m trying to think of who also I think Bert sugar did my show that day, you know, I met him there. And then the next year we’re in the league, the next year we’re playing football, the Super Bowls in New Orleans. It was the drew bled so Desmond Howard, Brett Favre game at the Superdome. And that was in the Hyatt in downtown New Orleans and and the downtown Hyatt had the circle elevators, like those, those circular, giant concrete and radio row was around. It was in the it was in the lobby. It was the lobby of the hotel. You got a table here. You’re on the second floor. You’re overlooking the veranda. And then it became in 98 I think it grew up and it went to a convention center. Nine, nine, that would be San Diego. Went to San Diego 99 it was in Miami, in a hotel lobby. But in San Diego it moved to the convention center, where it became like a hall. And then it never went back after that. Then after that, it was Tam pub. All of that was Convention Center plop down. And then NFL Network was born, because ESPN was doing it from the center at the time. And then NFL Network was born. And then that, then they brought the stadium lights in, yeah, then they brought a boxing ring in. And, you know, it became like, not, I mean, it looked like this was

Luke Jones  32:19

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the only one that I know right as far as because what I have Indianapolis,

Nestor Aparicio  32:24

pictures of me and Randall Cunningham and Jerome Bettis and Darrell green at the 96 Hyatt. And you can see how the table was set up. You know what I mean? You can see Atlanta, Atlanta, they had a ballroom, and I don’t know why this was I was part of the overflow. This is great because, well, Atlanta was the Ray Lewis situation, and I was with Ray Lewis the night before the murders, like he had a white fur coat on. He was asking, I talked to Ray but down the escalator at the Marriott marquee in Atlanta. Gigantic. Marriott gigantic. There was a ballroom. And I don’t I guess I was five years, four or five years into my career at the time we went to the Super Bowl next year, they didn’t put me in radio row. I wasn’t like in the thing. I was in the lobby leading into the thing So dude, the only way to get downstairs to take the escalator, I saw every one right by you, and I grabbed them all.

Luke Jones  33:34

Anyone who’s ever done my show, anyone who’s ever done radio row or done it at the Super Bowl or the combine, or any event of that nature. Locate. It’s like real estate locations everything. I mean, it really is, because they got to walk right by.

Nestor Aparicio  33:48

And then some years, they would put us right in front of the cameras, and we would be, I’d be picking my nose all week in Indianapolis. Luke Jones is here. We’re radio row. I miss it so much.

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Luke Jones  34:00

But you know what? Like, just I’ve been so hungover, just to finish your point, I mean, it was great in the years that I did that, where some of this went from Diamond Dallas. But I would also say this, and I remember having this conversation with people in my life. Everyone who knows me now knows that I stayed all week, and then I got out of dodge on Friday. It’s like, I’ll watch the game unless the ravens are in it. And I had so many people like mad from on my behalf, like Nestor, and I was just like, no, like, I could have gone. Do you realize, like, it’s a great experience, amazing how much people think it’s a great experience, but at the same time, it’s tiring too. You’re exhausted. I said to my wife, we went and I was always like, I’m ready to go home, and I’ll eat some wings on my couch and have a beverage or two, and I will go to bed right after the game ends. And I don’t need to be there. That’s fine. I did my Ravens. You know, ravens

Nestor Aparicio  34:55

are that for the Prix out on YouTube.

Speaker 2  34:58

All good. So, but. But those experiences were great.

Nestor Aparicio  35:01

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Do I do? I miss all of you out there. What Luke is a homebody. He wants to be a church on Sunday. He’s a good man. He lives up in Pennsylvania, and he lives in a small town. He’s like John Cougar melancholy, you know? And you just, you’re not the kind of guy that, like, like me, that wants to put a bunch of stuff in his suitcase and go west coast rolling. Oh, that’s sorry, that’s the wrong one, wrong halftime show. I think there. That’s little kid rock there. Yeah, I didn’t even know that out before. Seasons, you don’t be set up at the top, but, but

Luke Jones  35:29

those are awesome experiences. Met some great people and but, but to your overall point, you know when you kind of see what it is now, even compared to 15 years ago, when I went to my first 27

Nestor Aparicio  35:41

of them I have, it isn’t more than punch money, but you know what? But you

Luke Jones  35:44

know what else I would say for individuals who are doing it for the first time now, awesome for them. They’re gonna have great memories.

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Nestor Aparicio  35:51

You have take all the guests, dude. You go out fight with them. Cool. Get, get the room for 329 and night at the same rate.

Luke Jones  35:57

Do it all, man. I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s just like any other like Ryan Rick, you know, you kind of think of like bucket He doesn’t deserve to be there ahead of me. But that’s, you know, that’s just what you just kind of think of, like bucket list things. It’s like, you know, if you’re in sports media, do a Super Bowl one time, whether the team you’re covering is in it or not, you know, what? If you have the means to

Nestor Aparicio  36:13

do it, I want to, like, while I’m pissing on it all, because we should be there, and I’m sorry we’re not there. But write the Chad steel. I mean, he’s legitimate. I’m not, yeah, whatever, right? But I’d be

Luke Jones  36:23

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ready to go home at this point, because I would be way ready to go. No reason to watch.

Nestor Aparicio  36:27

I had your ass on the park to Oakland. Boom, gone. Yeah, boom. Maybe Thursday night I might have been home already. Because Have you watched any of Jon Gruden stuff this week? Not this week. Okay, watch. So Gruden has been walking around with his phone. Just Gruden, right? Like literally being in he went to Oakland on the bar and went into the stadium. Okay, right? I mean, he he was on the street. I shared it on my Facebook. I would encourage everybody to go and check it out. He ran into rich cannon in front of one of which is now gone. It’s a restaurant called Puccini and panetti, one of my favorite restaurants San Francisco, right in front of the park. In front of the park, the park 75 whatever hell it’s called their park, 6555 whatever I saw exactly on the I know exactly where he was in San Francisco when he ran into he had his phone on. He’s like, I’m out on street San Francisco. Guess what? I ran into effing Gannon. Look again in here, and Gannon starts. Gannon’s Like, I’m walking down the street. People are yelling at me. Yelling at hair is like, all silver. Yeah, total silver. So he and Gannon start acting out plays on the sidewalk, blue 85 and and, and they’re doing a scene on a Monday night football game against Tennessee. And apparently Gannon is under center. Wisniewski’s the center, and Gannon audible to play and and Gruden could hear it. And Gruden, John, no, no, no. Gannon came up at a center and said, You and went back under center through a touchdown pass. Hey, so Gruden was doing this out on the street with a camera.

Luke Jones  38:05

Know what play? They didn’t recreate goose fall ago and rich Gannon, dude, if there were money

Nestor Aparicio  38:09

in for me or like, I could have a radio show out of it. Because I do radio for a living. I do podcast for a living. If I were just doing man on the street this week, instead of serving my community with 32 you know stories about itineraries and other groups, if I just went to San Francisco and stood in front of the media check in line at Moscone Center and just went around and got myself invited to every party that I could get myself invited to, and just took my camera and hung out with people I ran into and just shot little three minute things I probably would really had a good time. Yeah. I mean, if I would have done that at the owners meetings where bashadi and Da Costa ran away from me two years ago, Mike McDonald and you and me having a little four minute thing, then you move here. Like it was amazing what Gruden did. Because, like, it wasn’t about radio row or inside or outside or access. It was just him, sort of walking around, running into friends, yeah, and, like, pretty cool. I thought we’re Super Bowl next year. Is it somewhere I want to go? Is it in LA? I mean, I think it’s in LA. It’s going to Atlanta soon, and it’s going to LA, future Super Bowl sites. Luke, checking this out as we do this. By the way, it’s all brought to you by friends at the Maryland lottery, candy cane, cash, GBMC, sending us out on the road. We’re doing great stuff this week. This the only

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Luke Jones  39:25

sports I’m doing Inglewood next year, Inglewood, Inglewood, Atlanta, the year after that,

Nestor Aparicio  39:31

I’m telling you, LA is not the right place to do this. Probably San Francisco would have been the right place to do this, where Atlanta, although it’s all walks around downtown.

Luke Jones  39:40

The problem with San Francisco, though, isn’t everything, I mean, everything so spaced out.

Nestor Aparicio  39:45

8

It was just a 50 minute ride, yeah, with a police escort. So that’s

Luke Jones  39:50

where I think you’ve run into the truck. The problem of not seeing everybody New Orleans is great. I won’t

Nestor Aparicio  39:56

be in Dundalk, but I’m in timoni. Is where I’m at. Costas. We’re. Over here, you get a lottery ticket. Now, I think I can’t give you one. Not eligible. You’re not eligible. Well, you’re 18, but all right, employee, give me that back. All right, we’re out here. I’m gonna give one to all of our friends. Bill Kohl’s gonna be here. Todd Schiller’s gonna be here. We’re doing a cup of Super Bowl. We’re Costa sin. We are Baltimore positive. Stay with us. We’ll argue more about sports on Monday. You.