Sports business professor Marty Conway and Nestor discuss upcoming orange tide in Baltimore and Orioles chance for big growth of the brand of the Bird. As the Ravens go on the road for most of the month, it’s the first time in a long time that the boys of summer will own the days and nights of Fall.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
tickets, game, year, marty, orioles, october, postseason, city, happen, people, baseball, conway, opportunity, camden yards, point, ravens, nestor, talk, team, cincinnati
SPEAKERS
Marty Conway, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
W n s t Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. I am wearing the truck city shirt out on the the interwebs. And the cameras because we’re putting together my 55th birthday party. It’s gonna be October 13. Friday the 13th all brought to you by the Maryland lottery in conjunction with a friend when donation and Jiffy Lube. I didn’t think we were going to be doing crabcake tour stops in October because I have a unique problem. And this is a problem this guy had back in the 80s when he worked for the Orioles where he thought every October better keep those plans better not have those Redskins tickets or those colts tickets because the Orioles might be playing games in October. Marty Conway joins us now our defending champion of all things sports and business and education and Georgetown University and the school of hard knocks in life and AOL and baseball and the Texas reg. Hey, Texas Rangers in the Orioles could be ALCS mates here. Right, my
Marty Conway 00:55
Absolutely. And if you remember, I think was it 20? What was the year that they met? Was that the one game
Nestor Aparicio 01:02
playoff game in 12 to get in? You’re
Marty Conway 01:04
right, right. Remember that? Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s been a while. For both for both. But yeah, for sure.
Nestor Aparicio 01:13
Well, look, man, this is our 25th anniversary here and curio and foreign data or we’re doing these memories and all this stuff. And as I go through all the memories of the 25 years, very few baseball memory, lots of football, lots of road trips, lots of different things we’ve done around here. There have been so few moments. And you know Ripken Delmon young, we can go through the handful anymore. We’re hitting home big home. But this is what the promises, right? This is why. And I’m giving a speech to the Rotary Club and literally this week about the stadia about the $1.2 million, and about what sports is supposed to do on its best day, right?
Marty Conway 01:50
Yeah, yeah, no, it is. And that’s right about it. And this is what the economists, I love my friends who are economists, and colleagues that are economist, but they just miss, they miss the frosting on the cake, right? They want to talk about that these things don’t add new jobs, or they substitute jobs for other jobs or, at the end of the day, they don’t like to think that there’s a plus plus to the opportunity. But when you have an overhead shot of a full Oriole Park at Camden Yards in October, day, game, night, game, afternoon game, whatever it is, that resonates. And that’s the heartbeat of now, the west side of the city, right, we’ve seen the I was just talking to somebody this week about the fact that when I was primarily involved in the baseball side, the spine of the city ran from north to south right Memorial Stadium, moved down to Oriole Park at Camden Yards, you know, Charles St. St. Paul, all of that, that was sort of the spine, Pratt ran this way. Now the city has moved to, you know, Harbor East. And what’s on the West is still the ballparks and all that. So if they can get both of those arteries, you know, back to functioning in the way that the north south connection did. But that’s what it does. It brings people into these locations from outer areas of the Baltimore County, Howard County, Frederick County area and blends them in with people that live in the city, whose jobs are reliant upon opportunities in the cities. But look at these games, Nestor, if they’re hosting the Orioles, if they were to go all the way into the World Series and play the full seven games, I think there’d be an opportunity to host 14 games and October, right, that’s 14 games that haven’t been here in October in the last seven or eight years. And that’s a huge opportunity for the city. For you know, tax revenue, all those things that go with it, all the associated restaurants and all that. So this is like you said, this is what you aim for. It’s very difficult to do in baseball, probably harder in baseball to do than any other sport, just the nature of 162 game season. So it’s hard to sustain winning like this. But if you do get the opportunity, you have to go all the way in for it because you might get a World Series as you know, once every now 20 or 30 years, unfortunately,
Nestor Aparicio 04:10
Marty I could do five crab cakes with you on this and sit here for hours and talk about my experiences and doing a little bit of that. I went down to the Thursday night game against the rays felt like there was nobody there, you know, felt like I was out in the outfield you’d sit where you want them give a 20,000 empty seats next night Adam Jones grade, they give something away. They’re doing the Jim Palmer thing when they give stuff away. It’s good when they have $60 Come and sit where you want for a month and just buy the beer at reasonable unreasonable prices. I should say. That’s a Springsteen reference for you there Marty. But But nonetheless, I you know, I went down I’ve seen the good, the bad, the Ugly, we don’t go downtown, the Billy Joel thing that’s going to happen, the flighting, that’s going to happen if the Orioles win because the Ravens have a Billy Joel concert on the day of game one of the alts they have a lot Ian’s game that would fall right in the middle of the American Championship Series. There. There’s some scheduling issues. But the ravens, as I pointed out to Luke earlier, they’re going to wait for like a month. I mean, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, London, this is a chance to bring it back to where you and Rick Vaughn. And you know, well, I found that 3040 years ago to say this a chance for the oral sort of own the place for a little while. And the example I would use for you. And you said what it looks like when it’s a full overhead shot. I saw what it looked like when it was empty at the football game. The other day, tickets were 10 bucks and the Colts were in Baltimore. Nobody cared. They’re just another team at this point. That’s how old we’re getting Marty. But the other part of it is, I saw Cincinnati where I went on to seek Eclass week, chats the lock me out. It’s kind of you can read about it on the internet. But last week, I wasn’t in Cincinnati, I would have been in Cincinnati. I’ve been there. And it always looks like male pattern baldness, right. Like it’s always empty. It’s a $200 ticket to get in in Cincinnati. You know, Monday night, when they played the Rams in the blue and the white and all that $180 ticket to get in an hour before the game no seats available. It’s the jungle. And there’s other places where football is caught on in Cincinnati man, like I know it’s possible here. I believe it’s going to take new ownership for all the reasons in me asking you about the lease and how they’re going to pay these guys. And all John’s popping off since the last time we got together that New York Times like all of that, but there is this chance if they don’t screw it up to win a World Series win the hearts and minds and souls of everyone. And from the business perspective, what I’ve been seeing, which is buy a 13 game plan next year, we’ll let you buy the playoff tickets at full price. Yeah. going on here.
Marty Conway 06:41
Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, that’s what when you have inventory. And in baseball, that’s what teams have, they have inventory, they have 81 games times, however many seats that we have, unlike any other sport, it’s, you know, it’s 10x What the NFL team has in terms of inventory. It’s 2x, what the NBA and the NHL have for home inventory. So that’s what you have. And that’s what the opportunity is and to try to, you need to be able to link those because what you’re seeing on Monday through Thursday, Nestor is what we’ve seen over the last several years, which is there isn’t the bot paid up early membership, whatever you call it now season ticket membership, that that list hasn’t expanded to the point where they needed to get to so you’re gonna have crowds, but yes, on a Friday night, Saturday night, or Sunday afternoon, with a giveaway or some other element to it, you can plus up to 3540 or, or sell it out is the way that they’ve done. So in order to reverse that trend and get it back to where it was in the 90s and early 2000s. You need to get people to buy in advance hold their tickets, corporate buyers, all those sorts of things. Because, you know, the way that we teach this all the time is the attendance is like the unemployment figure in the economy. It’s a lagging indicator, right? So when people are saying, hey, it’s a Tuesday night, why aren’t there more than 18,000 people here? Attendance is always a lagging indicator you when attendance follows right? The economy
Nestor Aparicio 08:13
this month, and people buying tickets for next year to want the tickets do right and that builds the base for them next year, could never have without having the opportunity to buy playoff tickets, right?
Marty Conway 08:23
Look, this isn’t this is not a town like St. Louis, where people are going to buy this football, other baseball season tickets, no matter what. There are few communities like that, you’re always going to get LA and New York and the big cities. But if you look at communities like St. Louis, that’s a perfect example of what they mean to the community. And people buy and hold on to those tickets. So even when the Cardinals are not in the pennant race in August and September, they’ll have more than 30,000 in the stands. So that’s what you’d like to get to. And that’s what has been here in the past. But it’s a different environment. It’s a different economy. It’s a different marketplace. And so the tactics began to change. And I would fully expect them to leverage every opportunity if you want to go to the postseason, here’s what you need to do in terms of the commitment for next year 13 games, or sponsorship or whatever it is to do. So. That’s the way you build it. Whenever you have a leverage opportunity in the business side in sports, whether it’s the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, or whatever it is, you’ve got to use that leverage. What about
Nestor Aparicio 09:23
the lease? Marty? You got anything on that?
Marty Conway 09:26
Well, I don’t have anything in particular, except to say that the least needs to be signed before you can do anything else. There isn’t going to be any, any subsequent discussion about development or anything of the sort will they go hand in hand. Likely there’ll be on parallel tracks, but nothing is going to happen until you know you can’t come in and renovate your home unless you have the new 30 year mortgage. Right. Nobody’s going to come in and do this work for you. If you haven’t signed that. I’m fully confident that they will. There’s no other option. Look there, we’re not going, your heels are not going anyplace else not going to Nashville. They’re not going anyplace else. The Tampa Bay Rays finally have settled their issues. And they’re saying in St. Louis, whatever happened, I mean, in St. Petersburg, whatever happens with Oakland, whether they go to Vegas or not, that will get determined the Orioles situation, there’s never going to be three quarters of ownership and baseball that would ever prove leaving Camden Yards. So eventually it will get signed. And then there’ll be some sort of concurrent development plan, you know, associated around it, because it needs to happen. Not just wants to happen, but you need to have things on that footprint. Look, that footprint was meant for what people have been talking about, which is a mixed use opportunity. It’s just a matter of time before it actually comes together. But to your point, no, the lease needs to be signed. I’m sure it will be and there will be a concurrent plan around development.
Nestor Aparicio 10:57
Marty Conway is our guest. He is the good professor of all things, sports, business and marketing at Georgetown University, and still dabbles in all sorts of things that have to do with his core knowledge as an Oracle employee and the business side back in the 1980s. The beginning early 90s, beginning of Oriole magic, middle magic at that point, you know, I got myself a throwback, Orioles Aparicio, jersey from 79. I’ve had Rick Dempsey on the show this week, who wore that jersey and you’re familiar with all that, fam old ticket stuff, 79 and 83 and 96 and 97. And, you know, it’s a point in this with baseball, where to your point, there’s so much inventory, and we can get into the NPC to turps games and therefore know and how the commander’s are trying to put it back together and how the capitals are gonna live after a veteran we’ve, we’ve talked about all of this, and they’re gonna have a new stadium in DC eventually, for the football side, these getting $600 million worth of money to do what he wants to do. All the money, money, money, Lamar, 52 million, you know, all this stuff. And then I see $10 tickets for ravens games, and nobody that wants them on a cold 68 degree rainy day, with the Colts coming to town and a team, it’s undefeated, then the baseball side where they’ve gotten good, I watch them every night when I can, when they’re not on Apple TV or whatever, force me to put the game on radio or whatever. My wife and I didn’t go a lot this year, when we wanted to go, it’s eight bucks. It’s 10 bucks, whatever the night you want to go when it’s crowded, it’s 40 bucks, and they call it a sell out and they play all the shell game with tickets and like all that, but then this postseason thing happens. And I spent the night at the ballpark with a 40 year season ticket holder. Someone I knew from my childhood had some extra tickets for that Thursday night game went down. She didn’t have money for the postseason. Like she’s a 12 $15 ticket buyer. She’s a $700.13 game. It’s all she can afford. It’s the last thing at the end of her money. You talk about the Cardinals fans, she said to me, it’s the only thing in my life that I keep that that’s an extravagance for me or my tickets. So knowing all that, I said, we go into the playoffs. She’s like, I can’t afford it. I mean, she knows right away, that the most important game she’s been in this for 40 years. And when the when the strips come as we would call them the ticket strips, or hey, do you want to buy the whole package or half a package? She can’t afford a game Marty I went on last week. And I’m not sticker shock. I mean, I see setting prices and stones prices and Bruce price, whatever. But it’s a baseball game that people are used to and their audience because I’ve seen these people are the $12 Supersoaker seats or the $15 this or the $60 a month or whatever the three bobblehead that they’re going to sell them support getting the $20 Back off the ticket or like, that’s the fan base. Marty. That’s what that’s what they there’s no more executives on the club level, like there were 30 years ago in suits and ties and sweaters all making 400 grand a year and up on the country club. And when the tickets come and they say, oh, it’s eight grand for playoff tickets, they’re just like, pull the gold card out. That’s not their fan base. And this last couple of weeks has been interesting because I’m a fan and I’ll pay my last name. I paid 120 bucks for jerseys that I like, that’s not the city connect or whatever, something I wanted to wear, but I’m not a cheapskate. But I am. And I had tickets online that I’m holding up for ALCS tickets. And it was $890 on my credit card for you know, two tickets, I turn to my wife and I’m like, Are we really gonna have a $900 night when it’s 48 degrees on October 28? And it might rain? Like, do we really want to be into that? Or do we like and who am I selling it to if I get stuck with it like these rave? Like there’s a point where there’s a premium price on all of this. And that’s the cost to get into the theater to see Bruce and there’s not the discounted part may come at the end when they can’t find anybody to take the seats. But like it’s an unbelievable market. You’re 14 games you’re talking about to be an executive to get that show up on your desk, and you’re just a small local business that owns two tickets, and you’re like, oh my god, it’s $14,000. That’s this Oriole success has gotten expensive. And I think Baltimore is going to feel that and I think the ravens are the three All these other people are looking for money. People don’t wanna give the Ravens 10 bucks because they’re like, they’re I got $14 on my credit card for three games, and I want you to alts and ALCS in three games is 1500 bucks. It’s a lot of money.
Marty Conway 15:13
Yeah, no, look, the postseason. And just so the reality also is that I know in the baseball postseason ticket prices. So let’s put it this way. Once you get into the postseason, it changes the dynamic. First of all, the league owns the championship series on the World Series, I’d have to look and see what the particulars are on this new division series format. But ticket prices for the World Series or ticket prices for the ALCS or whatever it is, those are all determined in advance by the League. So whatever you’re paying in LA and paying in New York, you know, that’s what that is. So the team facilitates that game, but the league’s, in most cases, own own that inventory. But yeah, I mean, look, that’s the reality is that you have a group of people who can afford to come in the regular season. And then generally speaking, when you get to the postseason two things, number one, you’re going to pay up front for whatever strip that you get those you talked about. And whatever you pay, if they don’t play, they’re likely going to give you a credit towards next year’s, you know, tickets, if you’re a season ticket holder, what have you. That’s sort of the format that has become the postseason formula. Is it the same people that come in the regular season on Tuesday and Wednesday? Unfortunately, not. But you do you have people that are willing to just people who come in and buy things on StubHub and secondary ticket markets, they’re willing to pay up for that one opportunity, but they don’t want to commit beyond that to next season? Or whatever it is. So it’s a little bit of the trade off today, unfortunately, is there a risk of pricing out the average fan in Baltimore? Absolutely. But the team can also facilitate things, showing games on big screens, doing things for people that can’t afford to be in that environment, but still want to be part of it. That’s what fan development is really all about. It’s not just selling tickets, but it’s about developing a fan base that can participate with you, even without buying a ticket to the most expensive game in the postseason.
Nestor Aparicio 17:10
Marty Conway is here. We talk about things on the field off the field and in all sorts of entertainment money. I mean, the Taylor Swift experiment here this year, I mean, the amount of money makes Beatlemania and you know, wondering what could possibly be bigger than the Superbowl or that a World Series for the city. But I guess for the future of the franchise, and the things John Angelos has talked about, it’s really expensive, getting good baseball players and all of that. Are you a little worried, you know, just in general about John Angelo’s this year, in regard to I’ll show you my books, no, I won’t. The teams like the team deodorizers everything right, like he is a hero six weeks from today, if the Orioles win game five of the World Series, and they have a prayer, and I, in writing about the Peter principles all these years, I’m like, at some point, that book is going to end with a happy ending. At some point, there’s gonna be a parade because they’re just gonna get lucky. It’s been 40 years, dude, they’re really good. They’re really like, and they might never have one seat opportunity, this kind of health. This is a hell of a month. And this is a ride that we’ve always wanted to go on in this. Yeah.
Marty Conway 18:20
And I think when you look at a couple of things, I know we’re going to end soon, but that is they have not had a winning streak losing streak longer than four games this year. There are certain things happening with teams, you always see it, a certain percentage of that lineup and that 25 man roster are going to have career years this year. Some of these guys will never have this kind of year in the future. And if you go up and down, look at the batting average. They’re not that impressive, average wise. But hitting with runners in scoring position. I think they’re first in the league, if not first in Major League Baseball. They’ve had a strong bullpen for the most part. So there’s some elements that just come together to make a particular season work like 2014 or some 2012. And they just sort of happen organically. But yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 19:05
maybe getting 20 innings out of John means in October. Yeah, that’s incredible. Right? Like,
Marty Conway 19:09
yep, and if those things all line up and happen, then you’re playing in October, late in October, and at that point, anything can happen. The other team can have injuries, all sorts of things can happen so that’s why I said when you get this close, you do everything that you can to get to that because there’s no guarantee that just because you make the playoffs this year, you’re thinking well we’re ready for next year whatever so yeah, it’s a year to year principle. And you’ve got to be ready to do every kind of go all in
Nestor Aparicio 19:38
something magic happens. Marty Conway’s here. He is the one of the originators of Oriole magic and employ many years ago now. Teaching good good sports, marketing and and sports business journalism to these youth down in Georgia. I probably got some adults in there to pappy bouldered me at some of your classes. Marty always pleasure to visit with you next time. We’ll do it well Longer Hey, next time we’ll do it after the parade. All right.
Marty Conway 20:02
I love that next time we’ll do it with a crabcake two.
Nestor Aparicio 20:05
I’ll keep saying that. Hey, I’ll see after the parade I’ll see at the parade. How about that? Marty Conway joining us here you can follow him on LinkedIn and all good social media places at Marty calm where you can follow me to drug city. I’ve got the shirt on Dundalk, Maryland. We’re gonna be there for my 55th birthday. It’s October the 13th Yes, it’s Friday the 13th we’re also celebrating Kiko Garcia’s birthday we’re we’re celebrating Jim Palmer’s birthday that weekend, Stacy Keibler it’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery conjunction with our friends at window nation and Jiffy Lube, multi care. I’m Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. Celebrating 25 years of madness. Stay with us.
