As conjecture and grandstanding about the future of the quarterback position begins, Luke Jones and Nestor pick up the pieces of another lost Ravens season with Lamar Jackson unable to play football after Thanksgiving.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ravens, lamar, lamar jackson, wide receiver, point, greg, john harbaugh, roman, talked, offense, game, week, season, year, question, quarterback, play, traded, huntley, offensive coordinator
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome back, W and S, T, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. We’re taking the Maryland crabcakes. We’re back out on the road next week. I’ll have more details later on this week. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery slips and Raven scratch offs to give away even though the season’s over. Also some holiday cash drops that I gave away last week. We had a wonderful, wonderful little gathering over g in a restaurant in White Marsh. You’ll hear Andy fronto show here. My friend Mike Chu from WJC as well as Nick Fisher from wise markets on the air this week here at AM 1570. We’re cleaning lockers out in Owings Mills. Luke is will be among the reporters in asking exit interviews as we would say I don’t know where the exit interview will be with Lamar Jackson Luke before we get into the offseason, I we went long and hard on the Bengals game and a prior segment. Are we done? Or is there anything left to nitpick about Sunday night’s game and other than saying maybe Tyler Huntley should have gone low instead of high?
Luke Jones 01:02
8
Yeah, I mean, there’s that I think something as much as you and I were focused talking about Tyler Huntley and Lamar Jackson not being there. And what that means, I think, I’d be remiss if we didn’t mention JK Dobbins and his disenchantment in the postgame locker room. He was not at the podium but spoke at his locker. And the comments, which were very much flooding on to Twitter, late Sunday night, or I guess, technically maybe very early Monday morning. As far as his displeasure with getting 13 carries and talking about Tyler Huntley shouldn’t have been in that situation and he wanted to be the guy and now this is something that JK Dobbins at different points, you know, he’s got a very strong personality, he’s got a lot of confidence in himself. And heck, the way he ran the ball after coming back from his inseason scope, it’s hard to blame him for for not having some of that swagger and everything. But just another sign of is this tenable? Is this thing going in a good direction with Greg Roman and we’re, I think we’re gonna get an answer to that sooner rather than later. That’s typically how these things work if you’re going to make a change. I mean, I said it last offseason, you know, if you’re gonna ask me which coordinator if I’m gonna make a change, wink Martindale or Greg Roman, I probably would have gone in the other direction. But hey, Mike McDonald, the defense played better as the year went on, but very clear that JK Dobbins was not happy with not having a bigger workload, which is an indictment on Greg Roman is a could be perceived as a slight even to tolerantly and Gus Edwards, you know, depending on how you want to look at it, whether he should have said it or not, he said it so, but it does, it is a reflection of how he’s feeling, and quite possibly how other individuals are feeling about the state of the offense. And let’s face it, Sunday night was the first time this team had scored two touchdowns in a game Nestor, since the Jacksonville game, which was three days after Thanksgiving. They hadn’t scored two touchdowns in the game since then. So and that’s even before Lamar Jackson got hurt, that was the week before he got hurt. So it just speaks to this offense, not functioning at a high level for a long time. And yeah, you’re not going to be clicking all the way around when you’re without your franchise quarterback. But I think to put it all on just Lamar Jackson’s absence and to say everything is fine, and no one. I don’t think very many people are suggesting that. But I think it’s very much not a good reflection on Greg Roman and probably not a great reflection on the confidence level in Greg Roman within that locker room, whether a player should say something or not publicly is another another issue. But when it said, generally speaking, there are others in the locker room who feel a certain way about it, too. So, you know, it’s you know, we’ll see what happens on that front. And like I said, I I don’t I think we’re gonna see a change in offensive coordinator. I’ve been saying that for weeks. No, I don’t think this entire thing is all Greg Romans fault. But at the same time, you know, we always say in these types of situations, you can’t fire everybody. Right? You know, there’s only so many different things you can do and personnel was a part of this and I’m not going to not going to give Eric to caster passive. You know, how wide receiver was handled this past offseason, as we’ve talked about, but the Dobbins comments being as direct, as blunt as they were, you know, that’s something that we haven’t seen a whole lot of that out of a John Harbaugh locker room in recent years. Well, this is
Nestor Aparicio 04:33
a term for blunt right, this is when you’re gonna get blunt right now, right? Sure his fault, their fault, not my fault. Injury should have Hey, hey, Luke, come over here. Let me tell you what really happened here, because that’s what report that’s what a reporter is. That’s what I’ve done. And I’m not available to do that. But the truth will come out about all of this. And it’s probably going to be really ugly. Not just that they lost, that they didn’t win the Super Bowl that they were eight and three that they blew leads, like all of the standard storylines and themes that this would have. If you were writing a novel about the season. The most important thing is Lamar. And that’s obvious. And all of the rest of this, as you would say, is I wash and the feeling that there’s real problems there. And the only way to solve that problem, is it money at this point, dude, you couldn’t be could have been making $80 million a year, he would have been unavailable to play Sunday night, according to him, right? So it doesn’t matter what you pay him or what the contract is really be available. And that’s a question that the organization now that they’ve gone down a rocky road, where they’ve obviously had some communication and trust issues, as we brought up in the last segment, that this is when the xic gets popped. And over the next 60 to 90 days, all these number eight jerseys, and he’s the star and he’s the they took him off their Christmas card. Like you know what I mean? Like, they I think they just are going to, if I’m predicting if you’re giving me $1 to bet on it. I’m predicting everything Dennis and I have been talking about for eight months, which is there’ll be hurt feelings, there’ll be a deal. They’ll get less than they want, but more than some people think they’re gonna get, and then they’re gonna have to go figure the quarterback thing out. Because if Lamar is not your quarterback, and this is the big question, who is? That’ll be the biggest question of the offseason for them.
Luke Jones 06:33
Well, and let’s face it, and as much as I mean, I feel for Tyler Huntley because, I mean, my goodness, before the fumble at the goal line, you know, he was easily having his best, the best game of the season. I mean, we’ve talked a lot about the shoulder, talked a lot about the struggles of the offense. He’s a backup quarterback, I think he’s a pretty good backup quarterback, let’s be clear about that. But you know, as much as you’re disappointed for him, and according to John Harbaugh, and Huntley didn’t dispute it, you know, he’s trying to make a play going over the top instead of burrowing underneath. And, you know, having a couple guys lined up behind him pushing them across the goal line, whether whether you like to play call or not, that was 11 nightmares about that was supposed to be you know, that was the intent. But, but you just said it. I mean, you know, as it pertains to Lamar Jackson, you’re gonna if he’s not going to be your quarterback in 2023, and he’s not gonna be playing on the tag, or he’s not going to be extended long term. And again, I I don’t know what’s going to happen. I, I, I have ideas and thoughts. And you know, I think I’ve said for a while, be ready for anything at this point, right? I mean, that no question.
Nestor Aparicio 07:44
We can all be predictive, but it’s not going to be stable. Whatever it is, it’s going to be cantankerous.
8Luke Jones 07:50
But but the thing I will say, and you made mention of this with how Huntley played and you talked about this a little bit in the previous segment, when you had the Ravens went out there and played hard, but they lost and let’s face it, when Lamar Jackson hasn’t been on the field, the last few years, they haven’t won very many of those games. I mean, that’s just the truth. Now we can talk about being blown out, or style points are all you know, only you only lost by one score, and all these games, they lost, you know, look at their record since 2019. With him on the field, as opposed to when he hasn’t been on the field. Now, the availability piece and the injury piece. That’s part of the discussion. And it’s it’s become a more concrete part of the discussion rather than the hypothetical of three or four years ago, when we talked about Mr. hypothetical, I was just missing. I know your butts. Well, but I will also point out, he got hurt in the pocket twice, you know, he got hurt as a passer twice. Anyway, not trying to belabor that point. But that’s part of the equation. Now, whether you think he’s the most injury prone quarterback in the league now, or whether you’ve looked at it as no, he’s had two injuries. You know, they haven’t been injuries that are necessarily career altering type things. But it’s part of the conversation. But the very real part of this is even if you’re of the mind that this isn’t tenable, and him plan on the tags not gonna work, and you haven’t been able to work out a long term deal in two years. So what about this year makes you feel that that’s going to change? You know, and we talked about the issue of, you know, how much trust there is between the two sides? What kind of disconnect, there appears to be on a number of levels, I mean, you know, that doesn’t mean they hate each other. But that’s not it doesn’t feel like it’s a open, trustworthy, kind of give and take that feels like you can do the kind of business they need to do to extend this relationship. They haven’t been able to do it in two years. That’s why people who kept saying, Well, this is a non issue, this is a non issue. Well, if it was a non issue, they would have had a deal 18 months ago, right? I mean, like, let’s, let’s just you look at it, look at it in the most simplistic way you can, if it wasn’t an issue, they would have had a deal. So it is an issue and it feels you know, now with the this injury and you know how the team’s talked about it compared to how he came out and talked about it. I mean, there’s clearly a disconnect. Now, you might be of the mind that they can mend fences and be fine and not saying they can’t do that even. But if you can, and if you are moving on, you just said it, it’s great to talk about well, we can get three first round picks or we can get this or we can get that you got to replace your franchise quarterback
Nestor Aparicio 10:20
who is going to play quarterback on September 9, or whenever they I mean, we
Luke Jones 10:25
could we could talk about all these other positions and all these you know, you like your defense, people have a quarterback, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. You’re not winning Super Bowls like you did in 2000. anymore. That’s not the NFL anymore. I’ll say that much. That’s in defense doesn’t matter. But my point is quarterback, and offense matters so much more than it did 20 years ago. That’s not to say I mean, it mattered 20 years ago, but you get my point. You can’t play in the way that you played 20 years ago, coffee
Nestor Aparicio 10:53
8September 10. By the way, that’s the Sunday kick off the Thursday night kick off at the ravens, but only be a visitor for will be a Thursday night. So that would that would be the seventh of September. So we will be the next time the Ravens take the field from now on you and I will be talking about September 10. September 10, September 10. So do the math September 10. It’s nine months from now like literally right? Or eight months from now. So yeah, eight months from now. What happens between now and then, oh my god, this should be as combustible and off season as we’ve add around here long long. We don’t have rocky off seasons around you. They lose you and I get our feelings hurt we come home. We go to the Superbowl we come back home, they go down to Jupiter they come back they signed some guys they don’t sign some guys. They have a CJ Mosley leave in a you know a washed up guy from Seattle, they sign and break that these are mainly not chopping off seasons, right? Are we going to fire the coach? Do we need a new quarterback? These are not questions that are asked here very often as a franchise as they are in Miami and Arizona and Cleveland every other year.
Luke Jones 12:07
Yeah, no question about it. And that’s what makes us so complicated. I mean, even let’s, let’s throw out the trade scenario just for the moment. And let’s say the most likely scenario is Lamar is tagged at but the Ravens still want to keep him long term or at least keep him for 2023. Let’s say okay, you know, you can say, all right, we’re gonna get a new offensive coordinator. It’s time to move on from Greg Roman, his style of ravens offense has run its course 2019. Thank you so much for that, Greg. It’s a record setting offense, but we’ve only gone backwards since then. And that’s a fair assessment at this point. Now, again, is that all Greg Roman’s fault? No, there have been lots of factors at work here, including the availability of your franchise quarterback, but for the sake of argument, you decide you’re going to move on from your offensive coordinator. Well, if Lamar Jackson is going to be tagged, remind me, was he at OTAs this past year? They were voluntary? No, he was not. Do you think he’s going to show up at mandatory minicamp? Is he going to show up for training camp with a brand new offensive coordinator? If he’s if he’s been tagged? Or is this going to play out how it frequently does not always because some guys do sign their tag and show up for training camp and it’s as close as can be to business as usual. So I don’t want to say that it’s definitely going to play out that way. But let’s say it plays out as it quite frequently can with a player has been franchise tag until you sign that tag. You’re under no contractual obligation or no CBA obligation as a player to show up for mandatory minicamp. At that point, you’re not under contract so you can talk about a new offense coordinator. Hey, there’s already been reports about DeAndre Hopkins potentially to be in traded maybe the Ravens who if you recall, were in on those on those kinds of talks and they didn’t they didn’t land them ultimately he went to Arizona say the Ravens land him. You’ve got a you’ve got a receiver to pair with Rashad Bateman coming back healthy and your wide receiver group looks much better and hopefully you’re drafting a wide receiver at some point in the first three rounds let’s say so let’s say the wide receiver position is looking up right great guys like
Nestor Aparicio 14:16
$20 million for wide receiver after you’ve given $20 million to a tackle $20 million to a quarter million dollars to a linebacker now
Luke Jones 14:24
you got to make it work. I mean you can’t this is it reminds me of talking about the Orioles all while they can’t sign starting pitchers because of Camden yard now they gotta make it work. It’s too important. You can’t have your wide receiver position to your worst in the NFL the way it was at the end of the year. Or worse two or three in the NFL. I hear you but for argument’s sake, let’s say they land Hopkins or some other guy when I see
8Nestor Aparicio 14:49
people on the internet, talk about them landing a wide receiver that would want the ball be a guy who’s going to make a ton of money. And where I my first thing is That’s fantasy land who were they getting rid of to make room for a $20 million wide receiver that that’s how I feel about it. Now if you want to say mail the check blow the cap up let’s go win play over the cat. Okay, I mean you know that’s always available right? Or not right?
Luke Jones 15:17
We just want to do we just want to keep no not saying that at all you’re acting you’re acting as though like having a good wide receivers like you know like the Ark of the Covenant. Let’s go look at I mean did you see the playoffs? Do you see what these teams have at wide receiver compared to what the Ravens trotted out there at wide receiver look again we’re getting off track here as far as
Nestor Aparicio 15:41
almost one two we’re getting off track right
Luke Jones 15:45
8That was a weird game anyway. point I’m trying to make is you can address offensive coordinator. You can bring in a legitimate number one and look I’m not saying it has to be DeAndre Hopkins My point is the what make the wide receiver position look much better. The wide receiver position didn’t look that terrible at the end of last season, and then they traded Marquis Brown, which fine and then didn’t replace him for whatever reason because I guess the Ravens just feel it. It’s not important even though it is but let’s say you offense coordinator. You add a wide receiver wide receivers looking up Rashad Bateman’s coming back healthy. If Lamar Jackson doesn’t show up till August 25, which is well within perfectly within his right, as a player receiving the franchise tag. What kind of position are you going to be in going into the season and this coming season? And look? That would be a fair question for Lamar to have that behooves him. You know, as far as performing at his best highest level,
Nestor Aparicio 16:41
we’re gonna buy $50 million a year, you’re gonna show up whenever you want.
Luke Jones 16:46
Yeah, I mean, 44, you know, whether it’s exclusive, non exclusive, however you want to handle it. So the point is, this is going back to what you were saying before I laid out this scenario of putting aside the potential of a trade is it’s really messy. I mean, it’s really messy. I mean, the best case scenario, you look at it at this point, because I’m not expecting the Ravens just sit down with Lamar and work out a long term contract in the last in the next couple of weeks. So, you know, I just don’t think that’s gonna happen. You know, if you want to ask me right now, what’s more likely, he has a long term contract in place for for the start of the new league year, or he’s traded by the draft, let’s say, I’m going to take the draft or the trade is the more likely scenario at this point. Now, I don’t know that that is not me. Hearing that from someone within the organization. I’m just looking at the reality of you’ve had, you’ve been at this for the better part of two years trying to get a long term deal. So what about this mess of a end of a season is going to change that we’re
Nestor Aparicio 17:43
gonna move on money because he sees his value is even more, because they couldn’t win without him, and they can’t win without him. So he thinks, everything he asked for he should get and they’re like, Dude, you haven’t played in December the last two years? Um, no, I mean, you know, like, we’ll just go do something else. We were franchise before you came here and your statues down in Louisville, and you’re fine. But I mean, from the Ravens perspective, I think there’s a there’s palpable disappointment in Lamar, from the daddy standpoint of him doing what they needed him to do, in their minds, to give him $250 million. I think that there’s really ruffled I don’t think this is fixable. Like, you know, I look at and say, the person that would fix it would be the agent would come in and sort of smooth this over and bring people in and say, Look, this is the best place for you. These good people have given you a chance the last five years, they’ve structured everything around you, they’re gonna go get a wide receiver, like all of the promises that they make, but to your point, he doesn’t trust them any more than I trust them. I know them to be liars, the Ravens organization, so he doesn’t trust them. And they certainly don’t trust his knee. Like, I don’t think they trust his knee to say the next five January’s to 2425 2627 How many will he be available? How old will he be? How many times is he going to run the ball in September, October November? Because that’s what he knows how to do. They’re never going to turn him into a pocket passer. I mean, Jason Cole came on last week. And his indictment of Lamar is he never became the pocket passer that he needs to be as a 2728 29 year old guy, that this we’re gonna run 10 1214 times a game that that had to be a sliding scale that he would be doing less of that now. Then more of that the part of that was having running backs right and, and the ability to do that. And part of that was the availability and being on the field to see the body of work in December and January. He’s still a guy that has not one January football games, all that being said, Look, the bottom line is there’s going to be a line from here to the airport. franchises that are willing Trying to sell the sizzle, as well as the steak of Lamar. And it’ll be exciting for another franchise, right? Like, I don’t know that they can ever sell him as exciting here around here. He’s the guy who couldn’t play the playoff games. But but this is about them. And I want to write about this. This is about them celebrating him talking about a wonderful he is bringing him flowers and then dealing him because fighting with him or indicting him or hardball saying what it looks like he wants to say at the podium, but can none of that helps their their value for him in the coming weeks. They seem to keep their mouth shut for 1012 more weeks and get their best deal and move because that’s that has to be what they’re thinking right now. They’re not thinking, well, we’ll go back and bring him flowers and just give them what he wants. I mean, that’s not gonna happen.
8Luke Jones 20:51
Well, one thing I will disagree with you on is talking about not selling that sizzle in this, there are lots of people, lots of a huge portion of this fan base that is still very pro Lamar Jackson, and does not want to see him be traded, and has seen this team lose a lot of football games when he hasn’t been on the field. Now, does that mean that you give them a full guarantee? Do you just give him what he wants? No, I’m not not suggesting that. But it’s not just as simple as that the entire fan base is ready to move on. I don’t buy that whatsoever. I think that’s a bill. No, no, I’ve
Nestor Aparicio 21:19
talked about you know, it’s Mills, they’re ready to move on? Oh, well, I think I think they’re ready to move on. I don’t think they’re ready to go into playoff games with him and what he might say on the internet. And just like and just all of it, I my vibe. And again, they don’t talk to me anymore. And when they do, I’m afraid they’re lying. So I you know, I’m at the chase and lock in for a moment of, are you telling me the truth, you’re gonna try to make a fool out of me if I report something, but this is obvious to watch this and say, feels closer to him going somewhere else and be and the reason would be is to get somebody else lathered up for him the way the Browns were, and they’ll get a lot of, they’ll get a lot of value out of him. I think they see that and they’ll take their lumps. I mean, the real question is, are they going to be any good next year? Because how can they possibly be any good? That’s gonna be our question.
Luke Jones 22:11
I mean, it. And, you know, I, your clarification. I don’t disagree necessarily. Like, you know, I mean, I do I know exactly how the ravens are feeling about this. I mean, they’re clearly frustrated. I mean, there’s no question about that. I mean, they can publicly or they can leak what they want to NFL Network or ESPN. And again, that’s part of what you just said, I mean, you have to put on a happy face about this, and all that. But, you know, it’s, it’s frustrating from the standpoint of how much sweat equity they’ve put into memory of the revolution, you remember in 2019, all the talk of the revolution. And, you know, they brought in Paul Johnson, you know, the former Navy coach, former Georgia Tech coach, and all these different stat
Nestor Aparicio 22:51
8thing was called Big trust, like trust, right? Trust, big trust, you know, and that’s the thing that’s, you know, if you’re gonna die, there’s your headline, Luke, you just wrote my column for me, right? Like, where’s all the trust? Where’s all of this? That’s, that’s they don’t trust Greg Roman, the call the right place, right. Like, like, there’s a real problem there. And Steve, Steve’s, the king of all of this, right. And that’s why people call it for hard balls head. I’m thinking I don’t think you’ll fire John, but I don’t think he’s happy with John.
Luke Jones 23:24
Yet. Well, I’m glad you brought that up. Because I’ve kind of mentioned Greg Roman. This is where you kind of look at this thing and say, Johnson charge at the offense Now Greg Roman as the offensive coordinator, right. Mike McDonald is a defensive coordinator. Chris Horton has a special teams coordinator. We get that, but ultimately, the buck start stops with John. So that’s where if, if I’m looking at this thing, if Greg Roman, you know if John Harbaugh gets up later this week and says Greg, Roman sir guy, then, Mike, my thoughts and the conversation changes then in regards of John Harbaugh, then because, I mean, again, you look at this thing, whether Lamar is gonna be here or not. This thing has, it’s gotten stagnant, right? I mean, it’s, it’s sputtered. It’s it’s stalled. 2019 record setting Great, awesome, right, great memories. 14 and two best offensive ravens ever had Lamar was MVP unanimously, deservedly so, but it’s gone in the wrong direction since then. And, you know, I mean, that’s where you look at this thing. And it’s easy to say, Well, we were up eight inches away from being taking the lead in Cincinnati. And the ball goes the other way while you were close. But how many times did we see critical mistakes and things of that nature late in games, whether it was the offense or the defense? I mean, they
Nestor Aparicio 24:41
couldn’t manage the clock on Sunday night. They they couldn’t show ways in all year, like Yeah, so
Luke Jones 24:46
that’s where you’ve got to react here. Now, that doesn’t mean I’m calling for everyone to be fired, but I don’t think this is a case. Like I thought it was more so last year where you have to me I was more inclined to run it back last year. I And to say, hey, they injuries were crazy this year. I think we’re gonna see some level of change. It’s just a matter of how much is it gonna be Greg Roman? Or is it gonna be Greg Roman Lord Jackson and who? Who knows out who else over the course of the next few months, it’s, it’s gonna be fascinating.
Nestor Aparicio 25:15
We’ll talk about that Greg Roman John Harbaugh. That’ll be our next topic to tackle around here. We’re not tackling the crabcake this week. I tackle one last week at GE and a restaurant. You can hear our interviews with Andy Toronto’s, my dear buddy, Mike shoe from WJC had a great chat with him about the work that he’s doing now in storytelling, as well as my pals Nick Fisher, up at the honey go wise location, we had a wise conversation as well. All of it brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. We are going to be giving some scratch offs away next week as we continue the Maryland crabcake tour. I just set a date for drug city. I’ve got dates out, we’re trying to figure out the Superbowl trying to figure out the weeks in February. So we’ll get all that together. It’s also brought to you by our friends at window Nation. I’m sporting my wind donation gear right now. 866 90 nation you buy two and you get to free, no financing cost for five years. Lamar will cost more than that. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking Baltimore positive
