Longtime New York sportswriter and author Ian O’Connor tells Nestor his journalism trail in writing the new Aaron Rodgers unauthorized biography. He interviewed 250 people, including Rodgers, who initially refused to cooperate. The book delves into Rodgers’ family estrangement, controversial vaccine stance, conspiracy theories and move from Green Bay to New York.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

unvaccinated, talk, aaron, people, aaron rodgers, new york, book, brady, jets, cooperation, nestor, unauthorized, truth, lamar, win, sports, malibu, parents, conspiracy theories, write

SPEAKERS

Ian O’Connor, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Music. Welcome home. We are W N, S T toss a Baltimore, Baltimore positive. We are positively this close to the beginning of football season, but not just yet. Before then, we’re gonna be doing some Maryland crab cake tours. We’re doing 26 oysters in 26 days, 26 ways around the bay for the oyster recovery program. We’ll be doing that in September, but in the meantime, on Friday, we will be with Luke down at fatales, doing the gold rush, Dev sevens doublers on behalf of the Maryland lottery, as well as our friends at Liberty. Pure solutions, keeping our water crystal clear and Jiffy. Luke powering us up as we’re in a pennant race. Here, we’ve got this Lamar situation with Patrick mahomes to start the season and kicking the game off in Kansas City and all that. And learn there’s drama in 31 other places as well. No better drama than with my friend Joe Douglas up in New York and the Jets and Aaron Rodgers. And I’ve known this guy a long time, and I said to my wife, I’ve got like a real journalist on today, Ian O’Connor’s been doing this a long, long time. He’s an author. Has written books. I’ve seen him along life’s highway, covering sports, a lot of football, and has spent time with Aaron Rodgers doing a book. And the book is called out of darkness, the mystery of Aaron Rodgers. It’s on sale, literally. Now, go to Amazon, run and buy it, and I know we’re going to talk a little Lamar beginning of the season, but you’ve been I had Feinstein on last week. You author types, you all get embedded into this thing. How did the Aaron Rodgers thing happen with you? Because he is truly a unique cat. He’s an unorthodox individual.

Ian O’Connor  01:38

That was the draw, that was the lure at Nestor Aparicio, I was down to do a LeBron James bio, and then another LeBron book came out, and I was looking to make a trade, figuring there would be some LeBron fatigue if I continued with my project. And Aaron got traded into my backyard in New York, and suddenly there’s one of the all time greats of that position teaming up with a franchise that has not been to the Super Bowl since January of 1969 so I thought this is going to be very interesting. I’ve always found him to be a compelling figure from a distance, and so I decided to take it on and interviewed 250 people, as Aaron said on Boomer and geo here in New York last week that I reached out to 500 people, and half of them called me back. That’s about, right, and but I I wore him down. Initially, he didn’t grant me an interview. I made many requests through the Jets, through his agent, directly to him. I sent him my old Coach K and old Belichick books and nothing. I got no response whatsoever. So I handed in the book, the manuscript, in January, and then two weeks later, the Jets sent me a message that Aaron is now willing to see me. So I ended up going out to his mansion in Malibu, right on the Pacific Ocean, and got two hours of fact checking with him, and he definitely made it a better book. Did

Nestor Aparicio  02:55

that happen at the end?

Ian O’Connor  02:58

Yeah, I had handed in the book without him. And as you know, unauthorized biographies, a lot of times you do it without any cooperation from the subject, and you hope to talk to as many people as humanly possible close to the subject for the book, which is what I’ve done. Belichick didn’t talk to me. He called people and asked them not to talk to me. Coach K didn’t talk to me, but he encouraged his friends to talk to me. You get all kinds of different levels of cooperation and non cooperation. And Aaron, yeah, he did not talk to me. Then all of a sudden, at the end, after handing in the book, he talked to me, so I had to reopen it. And yeah, he was very candid on some sensitive issues, so I do appreciate that.

Nestor Aparicio  03:34

Well, you answered my first question before I ask it, which makes you just a tremendous reporter, unauthorized biography. What? What does that mean? And I’m only asking it in regard to this, I’m about to go away for two weeks full and I’m tired of being K fave. I’ve had my press pass taken away from baseball, football, my career threatened and all that. And I find that that’s the world we live in now when you’re unauthorized, unaccredited, uh, blackballed. In the case of Colin Kaepernick and others by sports, Aaron Rodgers is a completely unique cat to kind of take on because of his belief systems and the things he was getting paid to do on a media side that nobody knew he was doing. And then just the fact whether he can win football games at this age, you know, there’s, there’s, and he’s already won, and he’s going to the Hall of Fame either way. But cooperation, I don’t know, how do you feel like that? You don’t want cooperation, or you do, because to me, cooperation sort of indicates some level of concession of whatever your medium is and whatever your truth is to and I’m going to write it in two weeks here on Labor Day about being K Fabe, sort of being in the club or not in the club. You didn’t want to be in the club. But then in the end, I What did you find in Malibu? From this guy? Well,

Ian O’Connor  04:53

people think the word unauthorized is a dirty word. Unauthorized, to me, is a. Badge of honor. It is not a dirty word, because that is the closer form to pure journalism. And when you’re doing an authorized book with the subject, it’s the subject’s truth. It’s not the truth, hey, Fabe, as it were, right? Yeah. And so you’re trying to get as close to the Pure Truth as possible. So the ideal is to do an unauthorized book with full cooperation, and some authors have pulled that off. I didn’t hear I had limited cooperation from Aaron Rodgers, and as far as I know, he didn’t block his friends from talking to me. A good number of them did talk to me. Some of them didn’t, and it might have been their own decision. So I have no evidence that Aaron asked somebody not to talk to me. But so that’s the ideal unauthorized with full cooperation from the subject. I got limited cooperation. So really, at the end of the process, after talking to 250 people, I got two hours to run by him things that they said, that he could counter, he can offer context. Who he can correct. He could refute. He could try to debate. He could do whatever he wanted to do with the information I was writing, including information from his parents, who he hasn’t talked to in 10 years. So, see, I

Nestor Aparicio  06:11

didn’t even know that. I don’t know a lot about him, you know, I haven’t studied him. So, yeah,

Ian O’Connor  06:15

so just the the short story is that he is not since december 2014 he hasn’t had any con virtually any contact with his parents and his two siblings, his brothers, including his grandmother and a couple of aunts that he was close to when he was a kid. And so there’s a pretty wide estrangement here that has lasted for a long time. And so I did interview his parents and his brothers did not talk to me, and some relatives who have been estranged from him, a couple of aunts and his grandmother, and so he wanted to know what they said that was important to him. And I think I also wore him down by the amount of people I called and contacted. I think they were texting him for permission to talk to me, and he got the sense, I think he didn’t say this, that I was deadly serious about doing this the right way, getting the full story. I think initially, some of those friends were hesitant to talk to me because they assumed, as a media guy from New York, I was some liberal out to destroy him, and I had no agenda whatsoever, zero. My agenda was to tell an honest and fair account of his significant sporting life, that was it good bad in the middle whatever it was. And I think he saw that, and that’s why he sat down with me.

Nestor Aparicio  07:31

It’s a tough circumstance, right? And I guess to pick him, you chose him and thought there’s interest in him. What made you choose him was there a defining point of this thing, with his parents, with his teammates, with vaccines? I mean, at what point does it move you over to think like, all right, I’m going to tackle this, even if it pisses him off, even, you know, even if I never get access to him, which you would have been fine with, I’m sure. But what has made him interesting enough to be a book. Because, I’ll be honest, Ian that full, full No. K Faber, I’m not all that interested. I mean, from what I’ve seen, I’m like, I’ve covered sports in the inside I feel like I know the type. And, you know, I had Joe Flacco here in the same era, and I have relationships in and out of the game, as you know, I just looked at him as being a guy like, I know the type. I’m good. What made what makes this more compelling for me to maybe want to read it and learn about him. I

Ian O’Connor  08:28

found him to be mysterious and compelling from afar. Now I never cover him on a daily basis, and first ballot Hall of Famer probably, I think he’s I have him in my top five all time. I have him fifth. Some people have them. I think everybody has them in the top 10, but some have them lower than that, because he only won the one championship, but he’s got four league MVPs. There’s only one player who has more than that, Peyton Manning with five. He’s got more than Brady. And I think the clincher for me is New York. And I’m a New Yorker. Spent most of my life, all of my life in the New York area, in northern New Jersey, and so the Jets. I thought that was a fascinating marriage, because the Jets have been a Charlie Brown franchise for a long time. And I think Aaron saw a very interesting opportunity in the Jets. He saw. Listen, Brady’s at Seven Rings, and I’m at one. I’m never going to catch him, of course, but if you win a Super Bowl for the New York Jets, that’s going to feel like winning three rings. It really is, and that will close the gap with Brady and doing a tremendous amount for his historical standing in the sport,

Nestor Aparicio  09:33

so which is important to him beyond the Malibu like all of that. Yeah, no question, because he’s always Brady was driven like that, and so once you’ve witnessed that, and they took it away from Peyton, right? Father Time took it away from him. But if you can do flat goes in camp with the Colts like I don’t know that they ever ripped the jersey off these really ultra competitive people, right?

Ian O’Connor  09:54

I think so. But I think he knows that he will always be compared to Brady. And Brady had. Belichick may arguably the greatest coach of all time in that sport. He had Josh McDaniels, arguably the best offensive coordinator in the league. He had a great system, the Patriot way around him, elevating him. Aaron didn’t have that. Aaron had Mike McCarthy and Matt Lafleur. McCarthy slightly better than average head coach. Lafleur looks like a good coach, but, you know, look at Dan Marino. Dan Marino spent his career with Hall of Fame coaches and never won a championship. So it’s Brady made it look easy, and Aaron’s been a victim of that, because it’s hard, it’s hard to win one of these things, and Lamar Jackson is probably finding that out now just how hard it is, as great as he is. So I think that if you look at it, Lamar right now looks like an Aaron Rodgers type of figure, and mahomes is his Brady. So you know, the gap in terms of rings is looks like it’s growing. And I think it’s Lamar Jackson is going to feel the pressure, and is probably already feeling the pressure to win one, because at the end of the day, people don’t really look at league MVP totals. They look at Ring totals that might be unfair, particularly when the people you’re competing against have better coaching. And as you know, Nestor Aparicio is dictated by who drafts you and who coaches you and the support system. And you know this is quarterback has a lot to do with the failure and successes of a team, but it’s not quite like basketball. If you’re LeBron James, you can get the ball on every possession and you’re playing defense. Quarterback has the ball in his hands every every snap, but he’s handing off. He’s relying on on his blocking, and he’s not playing defense. So I think that Aaron, to me, is a guy who I found to be mysterious. I’m drawn to those kind of figures. Derek Jeter had a distance about him, Belichick certainly, Coach K maybe to a lesser extent, those are the people I like to profile. And you’re not the only one who’s not interested, and I respect your opinion on that, and I’m glad you’re honest about it, but I was, and we’ll find out if readers are so far, the pre orders on Amazon have been strong, and starting tomorrow, it’s in bookstores. We’ll see if people buy it.

Nestor Aparicio  12:08

Well, I mean, outside of Green Bay, you know, where he was a legend, and anyone that had him on their fantasy team, or, you know, wars jersey, or like the Packers and the Packers have, um, there’s obviously people interested in that part of the legacy, in the way they would be Brett Farve or Bart Starr for that matter, right? But you decided to do this when he showed up in New York before the injury, right? Like you were in the process of, Hey, dude, I’m doing a book on you. We’ll see how this jets thing goes. But you were already far into that this time last year, right? I was

Ian O’Connor  12:39

and listen another part of this is, I have to admit, Vince Lombardi coached in my high school, so I always had a fascination with the Packers. Lombardi in Anglo New Jersey, st Cecilia High School, and it was the only place he was the head coach. Before he was head coach of the Packers, he was an assistant with the Giants at army. But St Cecilia’s at my high school was where he was a head basketball and football coach, and Lombardi lived eight houses away from where I grew up, so I always felt I had a Packers book in me. And I guess this is it. So, yeah, it was that, combined with New York and the challenge of New York, and I’ll say this Nestor, I was in the building the night of 911 last fall when he got hurt four snaps in. And a I’ve never been part of covering sports for what, 37 years in New York, never been part of a regular season crowd in New York that was more electric than that leading into kickoff in any sport. And that building was on fire that night, and to have that ripped away four snaps in. I’ve never been more heartsick than I was for a fan base, a fatalistic fan base, like the Jets fans are, and for an athlete, he had put so much into that, and he felt so much pressure to deliver for New York and to go down like that, I took his parents to the game again. They’re strange, but it’s their son. They do go to some games. Occasionally, they were in the stands, and they watched him get hurt right in front of them. It was a devastating thing. I had to drive his parents home that night, and it was a it was a somber car ride. I felt like an Uber driver. I wasn’t going to talk unless they talked. And that was a very, very tough night to experience

Nestor Aparicio  14:22

the relationship with parents that you have, that he didn’t have, and doesn’t I, apparently still doesn’t have, right? Yeah, I had a tough relationship with my parents, so somebody came sniffing around trying to figure out my past. And I don’t get to tell the story. Somebody else is going to tell it. I don’t know that I’d be down with that on a personal level. I die with not talking either of my parents, but my parents died later in life, and I just didn’t want a relationship with them. Maybe you’ll come write that book one day, and I’ll tell you how and why. I don’t, even I don’t, never had to explain it to anybody as to how and why. And I’m certainly not living in a place in Malibu and being famous and having that very unfortunate, weird circumstance that I share with Aaron Rodgers. I. Um, I wouldn’t want to report a ride around my parents, you know what I mean, like. And

Ian O’Connor  15:04

as you know, family issues. And listen, I come from a big Irish Catholic family. We’ve had our share of issues, too, but everybody has his or her own truth. And so finding signs right exactly, finding the absolute truth about a family fracture like this one was very difficult. Everybody wants one reason, one development, one issue. There are about 15 and everything. Are

Nestor Aparicio  15:27

they open with talking to you? I mean, that’s a hard thing to not to K Fabe, right? When you find out stuff about it, do you put it in the book? Do you not is it too personal? Is it off the record? It’s family man, it’s crazy. Think about that.

Ian O’Connor  15:39

It’s family stuff. And I actually had, I took no enjoyment in writing that chapter, but I told him, this is one thing I appreciated about that sit down in Malibu, and by the his backyard is the Pacific Ocean, and it was the nicest backyard setting for an interview I’ve ever had. I’ll say, what a what a place he has. And I was looking around thinking, this is how these people live. And yeah, it was really nice, but he appreciated or understood that I had to write about that. And I said, Aaron, before we start, do you want to debate this? Because, as a biographer, and I’m writing not just about your career, but your life, I have no choice. You haven’t talked to your family at that point, it was running up on eight and a half years, nine years. I said, Do you want to debate whether or not I need to do this? And he said, No, he goes. I understand. He goes. You have to write about it. I get it. And not that he enjoyed it, not that he wanted to read that chapter, but I also didn’t want to write it. I had no choice. And I told Ed Rogers, his father, the same thing, it is going to be the least enjoyable chapter for me to write, and it’s going to be even less enjoyable for you to read it, because that’s going to be the big excerpt, and this past week that was all over the place, Olivia Munn her role in it, and that’s just the way it is. And so I hope people get a chance to read the book and see it as something far greater than a book about a family fracture.

Nestor Aparicio  17:03

You know, for me, I covered Joe Flacco, and I wrote a book called purple ring two after their championship, and I went up spent time with him and his family, who I knew, and I knew his father the day was drafted, and it’s the antithesis of this. The whole book is how much he loved his family, and the reason he never spiked the ball or showed emotion, because his brothers and sisters would make fun of him. Fun of him, and he couldn’t go home to that. Joe being the big brother, you know, and I think about that versus what you have found. And what I wrote to Joe on his exit to Denver was he never changed. He was always the same. Guy still lives in had New Jersey. He’s Aaron Rodgers has had this metamorphosis. And look, I saw it here with Ray Lewis, I think Cal Ripken. He’s larger than life. People, money, fame, we all deal with again. I’ve seen it dealt with a million different ways, and how heavy it can be. I find Aaron Rodgers from the outside. And I remember when the debate was him getting drafted first or not, and where that would be, and him waiting it out right, like and all that he had to prove from being passed over. But the covid stuff, the vaccine stuff, the K Fabe television thing with the guy with the Peter T shirt, who’s a star for yelling, I am like you a journalist and all I want truth, and when I start getting conspiracy as part of someone’s foundational belief system, and it starts to creep in. I do. Money changes everything. Fame changes everything. I look at someone like him and say he living in Malibu, life’s changed a little bit for Aaron since he was younger, and I can’t imagine what that does to relationships and family and expectations that it’s very, very difficult and for you to try to peel it back. God bless you. I’ll take my hat off to you. Ian,

Ian O’Connor  18:49

not easy. I’ll say that. And one thing I want to point out, Nestor is that I don’t know if people have forgotten this, but before covid, Aaron Rodgers was considered one of the good guys in the NFL. He was socially aware. He was backing Kaepernick position. He was one of the few white athletes to ever say that, yes, the owners were keeping him out of the league because of his protests, and that was something very few people were saying or admitting, and particularly white stars in sports. He said that he also supported charitable causes for victims of the war in the Congo. How many people cared about that? He rebuked Drew Brees and his stance on protests. He and there was a one game, somebody shouted out an anti Muslim slur. He rebuked that fan, and President Obama sent him a letter thanking him for doing that. And so yeah, he was being praised by media members, the same ones who are now ripping the hell out of them, and rightfully so, a lot of these wounds are self inflicted, unforced errors, the conspiracy theories. He’s been embracing those since high school, so that part of his life hasn’t changed. He’s just been more vocal about it in recent years. But really what changed his public image forevermore were four words, yeah, I’ve been immunized. First those four words in August of 21 when he was unvaccinated, and then three months later, the truth came out, those that changed his life forever. And I asked him that question, why didn’t you just tell your truth that day? Because I think you would have gotten less than half the criticism you ultimately got when the truth came out in November of that year. In August of 21 he said that, and his truth was, he was allergic to an ingredient peg in moderna and Pfizer, and he was concerned about Johnson and Johnson side effects. And I said, if I was sitting there as a columnist, I’m Vaxxed, but I would have found that to be a somewhat reasonable position. I really don’t think I would have destroyed you that day in my column. And he said, effectively, yeah, I should have told the truth, and he never admits a mistake with anything. So at least he admitted that he didn’t change his stance on the vaccine. But I was appreciative that he at least said, basically, you’re right. If I told the truth, that’s the one thing I would do over again, because that’s the one thing I really feel like critics still have on me. Look, you covered

Nestor Aparicio  21:02

sports a long time. You remember when these people were friendly and felt like they wanted us around now it feels like complete sequestering of everything but my understanding during the covid year, because I wasn’t going to go through 58 hoops to get a mass to go out there to not talk to athletes, which is pretty much what they were doing to my employee during all that, my understanding was like Lamar was unvaccinated, so you had a whole different sort of protocol and lifestyle because they were unvaccinated, not immune, but unvaccinated, that if you were the Green Bay Packers employing him, you would have different protocol. Am I right or wrong? And saying he had to do live differently in regard to teammates and things like that. Being a quarterback, because my understanding with the ravens and again, I’m shut out, I have they don’t take my calls anymore, and the owner runs for me, but my understanding is that if you’re unvaccinated, you had a different life during that period of time. As a leader,

Ian O’Connor  21:54

you did, and you had to wear a mask at a lot of functions, and you weren’t allowed to go out with only so many people. Aaron went to a Halloween party, and he wasn’t supposed to be there because he was unvaccinated a team Halloween party and and also he was supposed to be wearing masks and press conferences, and he wasn’t doing that as an unvaccinated player. The interesting thing is, in New York, Kyrie Irving, he had to deal with a New York City mandate and couldn’t play unvaccinated as a member of the Brooklyn Nets. And I asked Aaron, if you the NFL allowed you to play. I said, but if you faced a local mandate in Green Bay that you had to be vaccinated you couldn’t play, would you have done it? And he said, No. I was a little surprised at that, because Kyrie Irving, to me, hurt his teammates, a lot of guys who had gone to Brooklyn to try to win a championship, including Kevin Durant, went to play with him, and now he was taking himself off the court again. And I was surprised at Aaron Rodgers knowing that he’d be leaving his teammates hanging basically, and helping them lose football games by not getting vaccinated. That he did say that I thought he would give me the opposite response, but yeah, you had to live a different life as an unvaccinated player, as opposed to the vaccinated player back then. And he did most of it. He got fined for not doing all of it, and and the Packers as well. So, but

Nestor Aparicio  23:16

fine if you can afford it. You know, they gave

Ian O’Connor  23:20

the Jets back $35 million on arrival to help them with the cap. So I think, yeah, he could have afforded

Nestor Aparicio  23:26

it. Ian O’Connor has written a book. It is called out of the darkness, the mystery of Aaron Rodgers. And good luck with solving those mysteries. Some I just want to ask him, because I wanted to talk Lamar and our windows a little shorter. We’ll come back talk some real football later on, when the Jets are in the playoffs, playing Lamar in late January. But for me to you, if I were to sit with him, I’d have to think about the three or four things I’m most interested in, in regard to the conspiracy theories or his whatever hit, where did you begin to sort of peel back the weirdest of weird parts of the book, whatever makes him the weirdest. And I don’t think that’s the Iowa hoska retreat. I know people that have done that. I mean stuff that you personally found to be a little bit Batman, or when you before you sat down with him, or maybe people in his life, I

Ian O’Connor  24:12

would say the conspiracy theories. But ayahuasca, he’s been mocked on that, and I’ve never tried ayahuasca, but I thought that was unfair, because he believes that has made him a better person, a better football player. And I talked to Jordan Russell, a good friend of his, who went to Peru, sat for Ayahuasca ceremonies, came back, and he’s the one who told Aaron about it. He said, Hey, you got to do this. Aaron grabs his girlfriend at the time, Danica Patrick. They go to Peru. He sits for ceremonies, takes the what he calls plant based psychedelic. He hates when it’s called a drug and it’s like the way it was described to me, as you experience like a lucid dream with embedded messages about yourself, about about your loved ones. And so he came away thinking it was a spiritual cleansing. He’s a better man. And a better football player, clear mind, and he has better relationships. The only thing I don’t understand is why the Ayahuasca didn’t help his relationship with his family, but I guess that’s for him to answer. But I thought he was unfairly mocked on that because I’m open minded to things I haven’t tried, and I have not tried ayahuasca, and probably won’t, but I’m open minded to it, and I think the conspiracy theories actually go back to high school, when he was a sophomore and studying the JFK assassination, he came to believe that a government agency was involved in that, and where it grew from there to today, where he’s got some really crazy, angrier conspiracy theories that he’s embracing. And listen, at the end of the day, there are some conspiracies that are proven true. There’s probably one he’s got right now that 15 years from now will be proven true, but five or six that will never be proven true because they’re nuts. But he, he studied the case in the 1960s Operation Northwoods, which was a an evil plot hatched by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to have the US military attack American military and civilian targets and blame it on Castro as justification to start a war with Cuba. That actually happened. President Kennedy thankfully nixed it, but I think he sees an Operation Northwoods behind every crisis now in the country, and that obviously isn’t true. So yeah, he’s, he’s, there have been a lot of self inflicted wounds, but I don’t think deep down, he’s one of the bad guys. I don’t I think he has just been reckless with his words, and some of his beliefs are out there, but I still remember that guy who was on the right side of a lot of social issues, and I think that’s been forgotten.

26:39

Can you win? Can you win? Can you win?

Ian O’Connor  26:44

Win? The whole thing?

Nestor Aparicio  26:45

Yeah,

Ian O’Connor  26:46

yeah. I think it’s doable. I wouldn’t bet the ranch on it. I think it’s the Jets. They haven’t been in the Super Bowl since man stepped on the moon for the first time. So I want to see it, because I haven’t seen it. I was four years old when they won the Super Bowl. I was at my uncle’s home in Staten Island. Black and white TV, I remember flickering black and white images of Joe Namath. I don’t remember anything about

Nestor Aparicio  27:10

the game breaking my dad’s heart that day and tell Yeah, yeah. And

Ian O’Connor  27:13

that’s what they’ve done for the better part of 50 plus years. So I do really want to see it happen, because I’ve never seen it and I’ve never covered it the Jets winning the Super Bowl. It’s just it’s hard to process if Aaron Rodgers does it with them, just can I know you’re not a New York guy, but I just think, I don’t think I’ve covered a bigger story than that, given the social media age, who Aaron Rodgers is at age 40, he’s going to be 41 in December, after what happened last year with the New York Jets of all teams, if you could pull it off, it would be a hell of a thing. The

Nestor Aparicio  27:46

Life and Times of Aaron Rodgers, all you wanted to know and more the book is out out of darkness. You’ll be seeing Ian O’Connor appearing in all the great media places. The mystery of Aaron Rodgers, his name of the book. Go out. Check it out. Next time you and me, we’ll do a little Lamar and this and that, and it’s all and a crab cake. Hopefully, come on down here and write the Lamar Jackson book that would be an interesting one with that cooperation up.

Ian O’Connor  28:10

Hey, you have to win at least one ring first to qualify for a book like that, I think, anyway, Spoken

Nestor Aparicio  28:15

like a Jets fan and a colts kid, thank you very much. Spike the ball on me. Ian O’Connor joining us here. Long time journalist, author and writing a book on Aaron Rodgers, uh, Luke and I writing a book on the Orioles and the Ravens as we get ready for hopefully a playoff. Ron, hopefully a big game with Lamar out in Kansas City to kick the season off. We’re doing the crab cake tour down at Faith Lee’s on Friday. We hope to see you there. I’m Nestor. We are wnst. Am 15 70,000 Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive.