Pro football historian Clark Judge talks Lamar and deep NFL quarterback history with Nestor as the Ravens enter January as Super Bowl favorites. And, as always, the praise of Bert Jones and love of Todd Rundgren are naturally weaved into this chat.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
baltimore, talk, play, covering, quarterback, year, great, team, game, todd, clark, week, bowie, happened, people, buffalo, point, playoffs, win, pictures
SPEAKERS
Clark Judge, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Back at W n s t test the Baltimore and Baltimore positive happy Festivus Happy New Year. Happy bye week happy. Get ready for maybe an AFC Championship game here. Sometimes they’re not friends at the Maryland lottery or putting me back out on the road in conjunction with window nation, as well as Jiffy Lube multi care, we’re gonna be doing crab cake row beginning on February 5. And that’s all I’m saying about it for now. I’m gonna It’s it until we win a playoff game. I’m saying bubkis around here. And this guy was here for some playoff disappointments. He covered the Baltimore Colts and this always gets me a chance to get my trusty Dusty 1977 Sears and Roebuck and NFL officially licensed belt buckle out. Clark judge joins us now from Parts Unknown, somewhere between Connecticut and man. What do you what is that?
Clark Judge 00:56
Baltimore? Baltimore Colts penet it’s a Baltimore Colts pennant that I used to have when I was a kid. And then you have got this which adorns my desk Of course my favorite player of all time if you were to see my wall he there’s a 16 by 20 photo of John you know he disappeared. This is 16 by 20 photo of Raymond Barry up here. So yeah, and I’ve got John Unitas I wrote him in 1959 autographed photo of John United’s in Westminster. So it’s great. Yeah, I love the coats. I love the coats. Oh, I
Nestor J. Aparicio 01:31
see John Elway every time I see you I take that off. Yeah, but
Clark Judge 01:34
below John Elway’s, John you know, it is right there and it’ll never
Nestor J. Aparicio 01:38
be below John Elway. You know, way guy. I loved Elway so I, you know, you know, well, I
Clark Judge 01:46
covered that draft. And when he you know, said he’s not playing in Baltimore, finally, the day before, if you recall, it was Marvin Demasi, who was his agent said he didn’t want to play for Frank cush. Well, everyone understood that. But up until that point he had impugned the integrity of Baltimore and its people and so people disliked him. Rightly so at that point, if they had simply said, talking about the O wayside. We don’t want to play for a coach people to understand that they really would but I think had he played for Baltimore, which I think eventually he would have if they hadn’t traded Colton still be there. But anyway, that’s over the water over Yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:18
you know what I so I’m doing a thing for the Maryland Food Bank full disclosure, and I’ll tell more people about it later, but I’m trying to feed people but I was at the Indianapolis Food Bank at the taste of the NFL event with Wayne Ostrowski back at the Indianapolis Super Bowl, and I at the Cleveland Browns booth where they serve some sort of pierogi or whatever at Cleveland, you know, something it was gonna make me flatulent that I was gonna regret. Later on. Out, Bubba Baker was standing there and I’ll never forget, I put a camera on him. It’s I have an ad on YouTube. He told me, of course, I wanted to hurt Bert Jones. Of course, I’m meant to hurt him. You know, like, literally and I was like, like I couldn’t. And I’m thinking that to me was the end of the franchise. But for me, why did you get your Clark by the way is a legendary Hall of Fame. Voter talk of fame, has been a great mentor to me and mentor to mentors of mine. By the way, I had lunch with Mike Marlowe about six months ago. So full disclosure, I’m a 67 year old kid working at the paper and all Mike Mollica talking about this great writer named Clark judge and then later in life, I find you covering the San Diego superchargers. But man, you had like a whole history of all of this. So when I asked somebody like you want if people don’t know your credentials, I want them to know your credentials without I want you to humble brag. But when you weren’t the evening sun Correct?
Clark Judge 03:38
Yeah. 79 I got there and 79 So it
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:40
was over. So you are not at the bird Jones.
Clark Judge 03:45
Got bird at the end, I thought was her Yeah, I got bird at the end. And I was there 79 to 84 and then moved out to San Diego. Got the end of the air Correale. team that was Baltimore
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:56
because the football team left. Did you literally Yes, yes. Yes. It affected your life. Wow.
Clark Judge 04:01
It did. And so I wasn’t sure what I was going to be doing at that point. And we had a sports editor than Mike Davis who was great and, and he had said to me, Listen, you’ve got an opportunity to go to San Diego. I wish you could stay here but I have nothing to offer you. And I said well, most people say they want to go there. I want to stay here. I want to stay here he goes. But there’s really nothing for you to do here. If everything else is covered in the culture gone. And I I’d done the NFL the year before I’d done the NFL. Because they brought back another writer to do the Colts at that point. I’d done the NFL and I loved it. And I’d been out to San Diego and sure I think I loved it. So I went out there and then I found who I really love covering that team. It was a lot of fun to watch. But that was the end of the air choreo regime. They weren’t very good. They were electric. They could put a lot of points on the board but they they really couldn’t win any games and I don’t think I think they had a winning season until when I was there until the 87 strike here. And Don was gone the outsiders then they won they went eight and won and lost the last six games This, but I left there in 94, to go up to the bear and cover the 40, Niners. And lo and behold the 1994 Super Bowl, who was it, the chargers in the 40 Niners. So I knew two teams so well that I knew exactly what was going to happen there. In fact, they knew the Chargers better than the dream I was covering, but covering the 40 Niners was one of the greatest moments, probably the greatest moment of my career, because they were established people. The media relations with the team was pretty good. You could access these access these guys easily. I could get Steve Young six out of seven days. I mean, Sunday, he was always there Monday, I’d be there their Tuesday with their day off, right? A
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:42
different expectation from different expectations about how to treat people and treating the media, you treated the media better than you treated? No course they portrayed you to the fans.
Clark Judge 05:53
Yeah. But there wasn’t the the breadth of media quote unquote, media that there is now no one knows who’s writing what and where they’re from. I mean, there are all sorts of people out there. And honestly, I don’t blame NFL teams for being skeptical about whom I talk to they’re no relationships. And well, you could develop the relationship because I lived out there, I was single. And so I basically lived at Santa Clara. And on Saturdays, they have their walkthroughs when no one’s going to practices on Saturdays, and today, I’m sure you’re forbidden. But I said George, Chief, I don’t want to come out here because they’re often stores that are out there. And he goes, come on out. I was the only guy their relationship
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:26
I had from Kevin burns perspective, that look dude, I’m in a whole different place, Clark. I mean, you know, I’m here begging for a team bring Baltimore the ball three owners, you know, I mean, Bidwell frontier, I mean, down in Houston, but they were all going to come here, but they weren’t. And then art shows up, right. Like you said, you were on the league beat in 8384. Yeah, you knew the team was leaving, right? I mean, you knew
Clark Judge 06:55
Oh, yeah. No, the team that the team Yeah, I was doing.
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:01
Beat is what you really? They weren’t winning the Superbowl? I’m like, pagal. Do you know or are your listeners bet in the pony speed?
Clark Judge 07:08
Yeah, except they didn’t put me on that necessarily. That’d be coming to the game of the week of the story. The week a man went back to Pittsburgh to cover Terry Bradshaw was last game now. They played in New York. But I went down there on Tuesday, which is generally the or maybe it’s Wednesday. And I’m going to see Terry Bradshaw, because he’s going to play this week and he’d been hurt. Remember that he’d been hurt. So he’s coming back. There were two people from out of town there to see Terry Bradshaw, me and Fred Mitchell from the Chicago Tribune. Today, there’ll be 2000 people there. But there were two people. We got Terry for a half an hour. He was great. And so they sent me the stories like that did Elway going out. I went out to San Diego when the Broncos played San Diego they went out to see Elway and do a story on him today. He they one day he lined up behind guard instead of center was a legendary story. But then he that gets behind Senator but John was very close mouth about Baltimore. I didn’t want to say anything. But over the years, I got to really like him and admire him and realize what a talent the guy was, and how he could have changed the face of Baltimore sports had he stayed I mean, I believe like Ernie Accorsi had he stayed, the Colts would still be there. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:17
our judges here he and I are debating Elway versus Bert Jones and all that. But let’s bring us to, to modern football. Because, listen, man, I’m thrown out of radio row. You married into the NFL than your life, your wife, your family, everything you ever did. You’re sort of sequestered where you are right now. Do you go to games much anymore?
Clark Judge 08:38
No, no, but no, I don’t. I mean, I, the COVID really killed that. I mean, COVID killed it. And then I realized, I don’t really need to do it. I can maintain relationships with these people that I want to maintain a relationship with easily by phone or text or whatever. And I don’t need to go to games. And at that point, actually, I had gone from the Bay Area to work at Fox and I worked at CBS for many years. And I realized when of the last year CBS has said I’m like we should be covering games anymore because people don’t want to read game stories. They want to read analysis and the best analysis is to go into week of amigo and be before the game or after the game or whatever. But so I stopped doing that and actually, I find it’s more enjoyable to me. I’m starting to sort of move away from it because I’m older. I look at some of the what’s going on and go I don’t understand what the heck is going on a gambling
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:30
Park straight away for anybody. I’ve had a press credential for 39 years you know be 39 years this week that I walked into the news American but sports first with many of your friends and colleagues. We know as a kid and I can’t you know like it’s just I it’s it’s different and it’s going back or and it’s okay that we’re not going back but I am wondering what it is because the one thing that would have gotten you arrived thrown out of our career. And Scarlett lettered is if you were shaving points with Steve Young knowing something was up back in 1995, asking him how his ankle was doing. So you could go bet on it give the information to a bookie,
Clark Judge 10:12
no question, no question. And in fact, I know of a group of reporters and I’m not going to name them who were depressed Fox back in the late 90s. And I’m not going to name the individual but they were doing fantasy football in the late 90s. They’re talking about it in the press box. And an individual who was a club executive came to them and said, you’re talking about gambling, I’m gonna report you to the league office and you’re gonna get thrown out of the press box. That’s how the league looked at it this time at that time. Now they embrace it and you can’t turn your balls in Vegas for three weeks come on two balls in Vegas and you can’t watch it you can’t watch a football game without Kurt Warner or Tony Gonzalez or somebody pumping DraftKings or whatever. I mean, it’s it’s it’s amazing. The about face they’ve done and, and I tell you what I when I mentioned to you, you said that it might still go into games. No, I’m not. I’m, I’ve got a website, which is talk of fame, too, which I’ve done for many, many years with Rick Dodds and Ron Borges. But I now do it with John Turney, who was a historian. And it’s in his base more on a lot of what’s going on in terms of historical perspective, we put a Hall of Fame slant on things. So I do that. And I really enjoy that. As a Hall of Fame selector. I’m the Board of Selectors. But I also do a podcast with Eric Kaufman, who is a Hall of Fame selector,
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:21
and we get in a hall of fame person, by the way, I love you, Ira. Hello, yeah,
Clark Judge 11:25
he’s great guy. And we do that each week, and we get notable guests. So we talk a lot about what’s gone on in the past, but put them in context, what’s going on today. And it’s just a different game. And that’s the thing when I said I don’t understand, it’s such a different game, where people are doing jumping jacks over something that’s happened with, let’s say, Lamar Jackson or Patrick mahomes. And said, We’ve never seen this before. And someone but he posted on Twitter, for instance, of a video and I think you’d remember it as a game against Baltimore, where Patrick mahomes rolled right late in the game, and stopped and threw back left about 50 yards down the field as Tyree kills striking down the field. And he hit him. And someone wrote, have we ever seen this before? And knows normally? Normally, I don’t respond to things like that Nestor, because in Twitter, it can be a cesspool of allegations and name calling. But they don’t respond this time. I did. Because yeah, I said, Yeah, I saw it. I saw John Elway do this at Stanford many times, you know. And so when we say we’ve never seen Lamar Jackson, I saw Michael Vick, all right. I mean, doesn’t mean we’re not trying to demean these guys, but we have seen it, but there’s no historical perspective. And if it hadn’t didn’t happen five minutes ago, people don’t want to know about it. And you know, someone who’s younger and say, Yeah, you’re just an old guy. And yeah, let’s get off my lawn. And let’s step away. I understand that I know, there’s value in
Nestor J. Aparicio 12:42
people’s wisdom that young people and maybe when we were young didn’t, maybe we respected enough because you were journalist and trying to get the facts. And the only way to get the facts was to sit and talk to John Steadman about what really happened, right? That’s right, then trust that information. If that was a person of integrity. I mean, that’s how the whole planet worked before Trump. Well,
Clark Judge 13:00
that’s an I don’t know if it was before Trump, but it but it’s out. It doesn’t work that way anymore. And when I know when I was a kid, I’d say to my Dad, have you ever seen anyone like Unitas I mean, you know, I’ve never seen anyone like Unitas and he said, Yeah, so Otto Graham, Graham. Well, then if you know about Otto Graham, who might have played 10 Years went to a championship game every year one seven of them, I think, How can you do any better than that? Otto Graham was the best of his era. Unitas was the best of his era. So today when people say, you know, I mean, Tom Brady, is he the best of all time? He’s the best of his era. And that’s good enough. That’s good enough for me, but we want to Lake make these labels best of all time and everything. Yeah, John. Tom Brady is a great quarterback. But you see Unitas people saw you notice you go nobody had trust more with the ball with two minutes ago. Now. It’s one minute. 30 seconds. Whatever. Clark George is
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:47
here he is talk of fame. He is a Hall of Fame voter and a longtime historian of all things quarterback. All right. So let’s start at the beginning here before we get to Lamar, Joe Flacco and yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, we people say to me, do you root for the Ravens? You can’t be rooting for the browns. Like I’m like, You know what man I was taught when I was young by a lot of mentors who mentored you the jack Gibbons and the Baba, you know, refer the story right? You know if I was a kid finding you in a press box at Jack Murphy stadium, see I’m a young writer, Ken Rosenthal, whatever route for the story. The story, the story, the story, the story. The story is you know, I’m I’m pulling for Joe on Saturday. I I don’t know about the story of him coming back here next week against Lamar but that could be part of the story too but but this thing’s got Stafford and did Detroit not like this thanks. Rich was storyline. It
Clark Judge 14:38
is it’s rich with storylines. I love what Joe Flacco is doing I love Joe Flacco because first of all, you covered him you saw him every day. I covered him only when I dropped
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:48
my Steve Young right. So that way, right? I mean, totally. And
Clark Judge 14:52
you look at what he did in 2012. You go Wow. I mean, 11 touchdowns as a no interception MVP. I mean, he he had such a great run and And I thought handle himself with class and dignity and continues to do so even more. So now, how do you root for the browns? That’s a good question. I mean, this is the team that gave 230 million guaranteed to Deshaun. Watson. Oh, it’s Jimmy has. How can you root for that team? Well, Joe Flacco is how you can move for him. And when I watch him play, oh, God, I love it. And like you said, you root for the story. He’s a great story. So am I rooting for the Browns this weekend? Absolutely. In my room for the Browns to play the Ravens? Absolutely. It’s a great story. I love what’s going on with Joe Flacco. In particular in Cleveland generally, was
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:34
the time of year we get all the fired coaches, but we also get sort of the anointing of the next right. And that was, that was hertz last year. This year, it might be CJ Stroud and you know, talking about that game and that team, they open the season here. You know, I thought literally, they would be the worst team in the NFL or among the five. You know, I thought rookie quarterback, I mean, that the noxious nature of their ownership, and what’s going on with their leadership, and how disjointed it all became and how awful it was. And the cover up on the Deshaun Watson and the fumigation and all I just thought to me, bad owners, right, we talked about RSA, we talked about Angelo’s here, whatever bad will always go back to bad and default back to, I thought, there’s no chance and now they have a resuscitation through Timika, Ryan’s and former players coaching, there’s really something to all of that all the way around from Jim Harbaugh cheating his way to a championship the other night down in Houston, Michigan, but but they’re Tomika. Ryan’s coming in there and then getting a quarterback and everybody wants to quarterback, Carolina. There’s an indictment there. Zach Wilson in New York, I mean, all of these young quarterbacks, but it feels like when you find one, you hug him and say, This is the new Johnny Bravo for the next little while. And it feels like this isn’t the last time that the Texans are going to make the playoffs?
Clark Judge 16:54
No, I think it’s probably the first of many times you look at what’s going on there. They’ve got things turned around. They’re doing things the right way. Management seems to know what it’s doing. Do strangely enough, because you mentioned ownership. Really, it I thought with Robert McNair I thought it was on the right track. I mean, I know that people will pick apart certain things that he said or did or whatever, but I thought generally I got to know him pretty well. I thought was pretty decent guy. But you look at what happened in the last couple years. You think they’ll never dig themselves out. And you look at one year it’s a complete turnaround to Miko. Brian’s has done a great job there. But they’ve now got the right guy they’ve got they’ve got talent really in a lot of places. And in that division, they can lord over those teams for a while now. I think Indianapolis has got itself sort of straightened out too. I think they’ve got the right head coach there. We’ll just see what happens but in Houston it’s a great Are you talked about the stories. That’s a great story with CJ Strauss doing and they had to wait in line for him right? I mean, Lovie Smith did them a favor by winning that last game last year you know, they so they get the second pick and Carolina gems for Bryce young and so they get CJ Stroud they got the better quarterback it looks like now I’m not really right up Bryce young but looks like they got the better quarterback. But you’re right it’s it’s a good team. They’re doing great things there. See? The mica Ryan’s is a coach of the year candidate legitimately so I do think Kevin Stefanski will get that that vote I vote on that I’m leaning towards Kevin Stefanski because what he’s done there he’s one with four different quarterbacks pretty good pretty good well
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:22
especially good if they’re still playing next weekend by the way Clark and you know, I would just say this on the on the coaching side and the carousel and I mean whatever is gonna happen to Mike McDonald and I’ve even heard mungkin and the Falcons monkian commanders and Bella checks out there I mean, like all of this stuff that’s happening you know, beyond all of this the football itself this weekend and the quarterbacks and the legacies and and Lamar measuring up and the amount of of heat there’s been on him in so many ways different quarterback different kinds of player the contract last year his health the way he plays the game, the steps he’s taken to become a better a pocket passer and all that it only gets measured by winning and it can you win this week and they’ve already they’ve got the buy but for me with how he’s measured against other quarterbacks and you are the ultimate and voting on on hall of famers and different things like what were What do you say about Lamar when they put you on national radio a guy from Baltimore calls What do you make of his game and where he is because I had they shine and and receive on and we did crabcake toward Coco’s back in the summer and the oracles were on fire and we’re talking and I said to shine and Emma CIGA said, Alright guys, let’s talk about the next championship here. Is it going to be the Orioles? Or is it going to be the ravens and the Orioles were on their way to win and 101 games and bla bla bla bla whatever, and we’re all wound up and I and Lamar just signed the contract and just kind of gotten through the mess and didn’t show up for the playoff game last year in Cincinnati which is still always thinks a little screwy. So you know and and And Shannon said neither and I thought, What are you saying what the odds are always sort of stacked against. So that being said, I said, Lamar, it would be harder for the football team to win because of the crowd of quarterbacks, right? So you always think Joe burrow is going to be in line here right now. I thought Trevor Lawrence would be in line here. Now you’re gonna tell me CJ Stroud is gonna you know you can move to the top of class you know, pass the number with the other one won who won national like all that who looked awful the last month look hurt quite frankly. So so all that being said, all these quarterbacks now that we’re really here, dude, Lamar Scott the week off, okay. Earned MVP, they only spent four minutes of the season behind by more than one score, do the math on that. And it happened in week 17. They were not behind by more than seven points. At any point in the season. Let’s put the last four minutes of the game they weren’t trying right in the rain. That’s the DVOA I got shots coming on this week. They’re the DVA Oh, go. I mean, they’re the greatest show on but but whatever it is balance all of that stuff. And yet, I look now and I’m thinking, Who Is he really going to have to beat and I know it’s not quarterback on quarterback, but we make it that way. And I’m thinking he doesn’t even have to beat mahomes and Allen, because it’s only can be one of them, not the other one. That’s right. This is a different pathway, what we’re staring at right now in regard to expectation, even for me to say, well, mahomes isn’t mahomes Because the Chiefs aren’t the chiefs and whatever, that there are two hours away from going to Superbowl. They’re one hour away from winning a game next week to have an AFC Championship game here for the first time. And I I knew you didn’t cover the 71 calls Clark, but I thought you really might have covered the 77 calls. I thought you might have it goes to the Bose. But this is sort of a legendary thing. And now if I have shot in or sick or you or whatever, say the pathway looks a little different to getting a parade here than having to beat on the road Burro mahomes Allen go to Buffalo, all that’s taken out of this. Now they have they’re expected to win the Super Bowl. And that’s hard, man. It’s
Clark Judge 22:04
hard. That is hard. You know, it’s funny earlier this year, and I’m saying really early this year, I remember writing after a game that Baltimore had one. Are they legitimate Super Bowl contender. And my question was, I don’t know. And my answer was I don’t know. I mean, the question was, are they legitimate? And my answer was, I don’t know. And I don’t think they will be because of Lamar Jackson wasn’t ability Scott extraordinary ability was health. So what do we know about the last couple years he couldn’t get through a season? Well, some games may not be remember one game they ran 27 times if you can’t do that with a quarterback. He’s gonna break. You just can’t do it. He’s brittle. You look at his numbers were declining. I said, I just don’t see how he gets to the season. We got through the season. He is the MVP might be a unanimous choice. Again, he should be I certainly will vote for him. But there’s one hurdle that’s left for him. And that’s the playoffs. What’s his playoff records? One in three? And you said yeah, it’s not quarterback against quarterback. You’re right. But you know, Ryan Tannehill came in they were Derek and they won. I mean, so and Lamar Jackson was he wasn’t very good in that game. So that now is sort of the next benchmark. All right. They are the team to be it’s a difficult landscape to navigate when you are the team to beat. But there are people like you mentioned Patrick mahomes. The Chiefs have been the team to be for the last three or four years and AFC he handles that well. How are the Ravens going to handle this? What happens when they get behind? Remember there used to be a stat a year ago where they are when they’re traveling when they are behind it halftime? What happens to them them? So what happens when they are down by two scores? What happens now? And I think that
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:41
if you don’t go down, you don’t know. Right? If you don’t?
Clark Judge 23:45
That’s right. And so this team is so good that they really haven’t been in that position. But what happens that’s not to try to take anything away from him. I’m telling you right now, as I said he should be unanimous MVP. There’s no one really even close. I would say if I were to pick a second guy might be McCaffrey. I covered that 40 Niners team he makes that team go it’s not pretty it’s McCaffrey, everything happens around you. But when you watch what Lamar Jackson is and what he means that ballclub were the other luminaries there? Well, I mean, he doesn’t have a Hall of Fame wide receiver. I know. They’re good. I mean, Odell Beckham is good at times, but he’s not catching 10 balls a game. And you’ve got is a good player. And he’s young, he’s good. Andrew is a good player, but he’s been out, you know, and then likely comes in Wow. And so everything’s working. You’re running the ball. Well, he’s doing everything right. And he stayed in the huddle. That was the big hurdle. Could he state the longevity durability? That was the Hurley had to pass? We did. He has and now he’s, he’s, he’s gotten a couple of weeks off. He didn’t have to play last weekend. You have a bye week, you know, the future is all about him now with Baltimore. And and so it’s up to him to sort of rise the occasion. He’s done it again and again this year. I have no doubt they can do it. The question is will they? And I think that’s a valid question.
Nestor J. Aparicio 25:02
We call these wise conversations or friends wise markets up, put them on, we’re gonna be talking more about the Maryland Food Bank next month. Our friends at wise markets do a lot for them as well. And we’re doing something during the radio row week called crabcake row. I’ll be telling you more about that. In the coming weeks it’ll be brought to buy the Maryland lottery in conjunction with window nation, and a French Jiffy Lube Clark judge, the great Clark judge is our guest here. You can follow his act out on the x’s and the Twitter’s and the talk of fame. He also has a podcast where he invites all sorts of sort of legends that he knows in his cover over parts of five decades now. You’re not that old. I mean, you still feel young and vibrant, and
Clark Judge 25:40
you feel young and vibrant till I look in the mirror. But But yeah, on that podcast, we had Bert Jones on with his father dub and was a great one. It was just as you know, I love Bert Jones. I love watching him play. And again, if you try to talk to people today about Bert Jones, and you have someone say who you go meet who roll the video of Bert Jones, he carried a team on his shoulders. Watch that guy. I mean, he was so charismatic to me. He was as charismatic in Baltimore as Brett Farve was in Green Bay. I love watching him play. So it is, I guess historical perspective. One good thing about getting older is having watched people like that and knowing what they were and being a part of that being around that it was so much fun to watch the Colts it was so much fun to watch them he
Nestor J. Aparicio 26:25
was swashbuckling. Oh no. That would be my word for him. So clock the rest of this field in the AFC and the experience of horrible the fact that the cost it didn’t just bring these sort of older Zeitler Moses and noi clowny. The trade for ro Quan Smith, the drafting of Kyle Hamilton, you know, hardball getting together with the cheating brother and bringing in the you know, and the McDonnell back and forth in this whole connection that I don’t know how it’s gonna be once he takes the Chargers job or whatever job he’s gonna take this week because he’ll have a job by the time people hear this this week. I mean, Jim Harbaugh will be in the National Football League by the time certainly by the time the Eagles play the Buccaneers on Monday night so that’s how we
Clark Judge 27:11
think so yeah, we think we need to be the Chargers of the Raiders I don’t know say we think be one of those pick teams that fair
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:16
enough. But so so all of that being said, this this tournament and what the Ravens represent for having pretty good health I mean, Andrews aside and wherever they are with Humphrey and gamble, but but that decision making in the book, you know, as Bella check leaves with a hoodie over his head in the snow, losing to the Jets and the ignominy you know, all of that this is their chance to shine as an organization. What gets in the way here? Where are you with Kansas City with buffalo with Cleveland with I don’t know Mason, Rudolph, even at this point in the tournament this weekend. And I think we all look at Miami going to freeze her ass off on Saturday night in Kansas City and saying, they’re really that’s the worst thing in the world to deliver into the playoffs and not be healthy. Yeah, absolutely.
Clark Judge 27:58
Absolutely. Yeah. What gets in their way, Buffalo that buffalo gets in their way. And for two reasons. One, they’ve got momentum to they’ve got Josh Allen. And the momentum counts for a lot. They won the last five games. They beat Kansas City in Kansas City. They beat Dallas, they beat Miami and Miami. They’ve got something to prove. Now, the problem is Josh Allen also it turns the ball over a lot. And you saw that last week. They to me were by far the better do not by far, but they were the better team in Miami, but to get beating themselves and it got to the fourth quarter. So they’re not going to win this game because they can’t get out of their own way. And lo and behold, then we have the 96 yard punt return. But Josh Allen is special and they have something to prove. I think that team can circle the bases but if he does, what he’s done in the past and the recent past and take, you know, Gamble’s that he shouldn’t and just part of his DNA kind of like Brett Farve, you know, then just you suffer the consequences. Baltimore’s a better team, but I don’t know what happens if buffalo gets up by you know, 10 points or so. I don’t know what happens if Josh Allen is playing like he did against Kansas City. Two or three years ago that overtime game was slinging it left and right and he couldn’t make any mistakes. He’s a guy who’s capable of doing it Kansas City, you know, it should be the team that should go well, okay. They could they go into Buffalo and win. Yeah, they could. They’re not they’re not right. That team’s just not right this year. If you’ve watched them all year, and I have they’re just there’s something wrong offensively and people say they dropped a lot of passes. Oh, that’s true. They do. mahomes is not playing very well. People didn’t want to acknowledge that until recently. It was always my god. Memories. Haven’t seen anything like this.
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:30
What is it that capable of playing well, this week at home in the cold in the offense? Are they capable of playing well, next week in the cold in Buffalo and buffalo?
Clark Judge 29:38
Yeah, I mean, are they capable? Sure. I mean, you got mahomes is anything’s possible, but then you look at the track record this year, are they suddenly going to be the team that they haven’t been for? 18 weeks 17 games? And I don’t think so. I mean, they they weren’t very good at home either. I mean, they just had been not a team that was rolling. It was smooth and And people want to focus on the drop passes. There’s a lot of dysfunction there and that offensive that hasn’t hasn’t been defensively. That’s what’s keeping them in game so defensive and pretty good. But can they force the turnovers in Buffalo? Can they force the turnovers against Miami? They Yeah, they can. I think Miami’s speed would be a factor. But when it’s five degrees, no, I don’t think that’s going to be the case. And so that’s going to be hate to say this, but for those who James high defensive game, right, and I trust Kansas City’s defense more than I do. Miami’s and so now you go to Buffalo, or buffaloes used to playing in that and now Kansas City is going there. What are they going to be like they’ve already lost to the bills during the season that happened in the past. Nestor, you know, Buffalo would go into Kansas City beat them during the season that happened, then they go into Kansas City and play them that you’re in the playoffs didn’t happen. I don’t think that’s going to be the case here. But can I see Kansas City beating in succession Miami, Buffalo and Baltimore? And the answer is no.
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:00
All the Ravens have to do is win one game against the guy not named Allen or mahomes. At home in order to play one of those two guys, in order to go to the Super Bowl Clark judges your NFC SCI what? You know, I know you’re, you’re pro 49. Or we could talk about what happened on Christmas night. But the rest of the field over there, boy, boy, boy,
Clark Judge 31:22
it’s just it’s not an interesting it’s not interesting conference amid San Francisco and a cast of 1000s. When people say what about Dallas, San Francisco, Cisco destroyed them earlier this year. And I realized it’s it’s a different time, right a different time. But San Francisco will destroy them again. I mean, San Francisco can run the ball. They can run it very effectively, with debo or with Christian McCaffrey, whoever they put out there. I mean, they’ve got a zillion people. But Dallas is playing very well right now. But San Francisco knows we own these guys. They know that. And they do they they beat him in the playoffs all the time. Yeah, it’s a different deal. That was in the 90s. You know, when when I was government, Dallas was the team to beat San Francisco is the team to beat and they are head and shoulders above everyone else. So who’s going to be the second place team? I think it’s probably going to be Dallas, I would guess at this point. Could someone emerge? I think I think the rams are kind of scary. I mean, the Rams got in there and they’re playing well. There’s a plan so far above their heads. If the Houston Texans or the NFC they weren’t expected do anything, you know, they had salary cap problems. You know, Stafford was here with the last Cooper cup and then and then Cup comes back and all of a sudden Bouken Nikolas me what what? Revelation running backs they left less than right this suddenly they’re there. They drafted very well, they’ve got good young players. Matthew Stafford’s playing well you write the game this weekend against Detroit. I think they win that game. I think they win it because Detroit has trouble in the secondary Stafford’s going to be pumped up. I think they win that game. That’s it. That’s a scary team. But the rest of the field go we Tampa Bay? No, Philadelphia Philadelphia is DOA. I mean, that’s sad. What’s happened to the Eagles a month ago we would have said Philadelphia and San Francisco. The Eagles have done other die I think could lose the Tampa Bay. So where is the next best team? Probably Dallas by process of elimination. And as I said, I think the 14th I was gonna get left the field with them. Clark
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:07
George is here. He’s been covering the National Football League since at least 1979. That wasn’t such a great year. Well, we were just looking through my pictures the other day and my family gave me a Pentax camera and I Tandy free for my birthday. I had I had one I have God Yeah, JC Penney, so I take pictures. I have pictures of the Packers cold snow game, during the winless Oh, eight and one year pictures of of Lynn Dickey, I cover that game. Yeah. I have pictures of Jay I know you did. So I pitched the James Lawson I every time I would get in an elevator with James Lofton covering you know Hall of Famer covering football we get nowhere it’s like the Packers game Memorial Stadium I got pictures for you. So I found the pictures recently as well as triumph and rush and Van Halen because they should sneak my camera in. Take pictures at the Capitol center back in the day. So
Clark Judge 34:00
if any Todd Rundgren pictures anytime run good pictures.
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:03
I’m glad you asked about the great Todd Rundgren because I finally saw Todd Rundgren in person for the first time in my life. And he wasn’t doing drunken songs about a year and a half ago was Halloween a year and a half ago they
Clark Judge 34:15
did the David Bowie tour with AJ Oh yeah, no, yeah, no, it Yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:19
they did that it ramshead And and Elba Thomas Dolby, who’s a friend of mine who lives here in Baltimore. The great Thomas Dolby. He’s gonna be touring next year. He came down and did a tribute to Bowie because of Live Aid. He was a musical director for Bowie’s band that Live Aid swear to God like wow, oh my God. He tells a story of him in Bowie taking a helicopter into Wembley that day. And Bowie being a nervous helicopter he was smoking a bag of cigarettes in the helicopter and to Toby’s like I was choking to death as we’re coming. I’ll Toby’s the bed. So but that night wrong grin plate and sang these Bowie songs. And, like I have such a weird man crush thing on Rundgren without ever seeing him or appreciating utopia or appreciating his work with meatloaf and betta like he’s a real bucket list top 20 living breathing human I’ve never had on the show that if I could get his attention for 25 minutes I really Hawaii and Kawhi in the Philadelphia thing and his ear for music and his voice and I, I feel cheated that I didn’t really appreciate Todd is God the way you have most of your life? You know, ya
Clark Judge 35:35
know, I first saw him in 73 when he came to the University of Missouri and so I’m gonna 73 And then I went out San Francisco and so I’m gonna winterland that spring with utopia and I’ve seen him at five times now and I just can’t get enough of Todd and I’ve got pictures a little more in here that I’ve taken on Central Park I’ve I’ve seen a zillion places but it’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:54
never rented his place in Hawaii or any No no no boy
Clark Judge 35:57
but I’ve been deployed but I’ve met and so I was more interested seen is house in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania, actually. And I and I did see him at the tower theater in Upper Darby. But anyway, it was I love watching him. He honestly my life has been enriched by him and you and I’ve talked together many times about rock criminal music. And I had
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:21
I said to my wife, we were going to cost us literally to get food we were going to watch college, and I and a song came on radio and I said because she knows like my association with sports has changed greatly like I’m a kid that’s lived my whole life 40 years of doing this to be thrown out by these creeps in in front of the world is and have me have someone like you asked me what did you do? I’m like ask them you know what music music is still there despite the fact that I had a run in with a rock star here there whatever you lose respect for certain people when you find out that they’re, you know, pedophiles or that they’re racist or you know, all of those things you could do Michael Jackson, you know, whatever it is, I think there’s still something pure to me about music Clark right. And I would say for you and I we spend our lives very similarly in locker rooms around jocks and around famous people and Super Bowls and I’ve been to 27 of them and I you probably been to more but music to me, you give. I might go see Billy Joel in New York on Thursday night just to go do it. You know, show me this show. We would tell everybody what we’re looking at because we’re radio here
Clark Judge 37:25
you are. Okay, you’re looking at a picture of Todd Rundgren in Central Park in the mid to late 1970s. took a photo there. And then here’s a photo of these are your pictures. These are my pictures. Yeah, Peter Frampton in Central Park. And that’s when Frampton the Frampton comes alive to her but I was on Peter Frampton way before that, and I told everyone Hey, this guitarist from Humble Pie is phenomenal. Hey, hang
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:50
on a second. Peter Frampton, okay, great
Clark Judge 37:55
and that Todd Rundgren so that’s what I was reaching for. But I, I used to love taking photos. And the thing is, you could get close to them. And you know, they and and those days, I had a great Mumia C Corp camera with a zoom lens and got close to the individuals. And it was it was great, but I love Todd. Todd is God and it’s it’s funny when you’re talking about you know, getting to get him on your show. I think you can now and I was intimidated by him years ago because he was a difficult guy to interview and I reviewed a concert once when I was in San Diego and they said, Hey, we got a backstage pass backstage pass. You want to meet him? I said no. They said why not? I said I don’t want to know he’s a jerk. I don’t I’m not interested and I didn’t do it. Now I would be I would be interested. Well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:36
Todd Rundgren when he comes out i It’s on my list to do a couple things with some old sports writers like you that we share the alumnus of being you know, part of the evening sun part of the news American family. Every year Molly Dunham brings a whole bunch of us together you know down at the brewery and we all get together in October usually and have a beer have a pint as they say and tell old sports writer stories and all that stuff. But I do things I got an I’m making a buck 55 right like I’m making a bucket list being that I attended my last Super Bowl. I’ve got a you know, jumped on my last final flight. I don’t know the next time I’ll go to a hockey game. I you know, I’ve been to 1000 hockey games, but concerts still for me. I’m eyeing up Bryan Adams. I’m eyeing up this mare tour in Europe. I’m waiting for all these shows to come back this year. I’m going to go to the Celestra for a basketball game with Dick Gerardi because we’ve talked about it since he moved to Philly 40 years ago and we’ve been friends and I’ve never been to the Balestra I’ve had I won’t go there without your already and and cheesesteak and flatulence to various degree from one of his places. And I want to go to a I want to see Todd Rundgren with you. And I’ll come to Connecticut. I’ll go to New Haven. These totes play still there.
Clark Judge 39:48
Yeah, sure. We’re actually we’re going to New Haven and in fact, we’re going to Haven about five minutes, but we’re going right down the street from toe spice toes place is still there. Yeah. So Todd chose
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:58
to get there. What’s the in New Haven where By getting pizza we
Clark Judge 40:00
like puppies are modern but most a lot of people like Sally’s you can do either one of those three or all three yet well, puppies and Sally’s are on the same street so you can do either one goes we’ll go where the line is shorter puppies is my favorite but modern is right. Their motto is in a different part of the city. But New Haven faces the greatest it’s the greatest my
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:17
bucket list this year is to go places I’ve never been and see things I want to see. So like I want to see the tulips in Amsterdam. So I’m trying to construct around that right. So but here’s the deal. I’m going to Tahoe because I’ve never been Sacramento because some of my roots guys went to the bee Scotland bar is the is the executive editor of the bee he’s the one that put me on the phone with Steven Tyler and Geddy Lee when I was 15 Oh, like literally right so I’m so I’m going all these places New Haven is a place I’ve been driving through. I’ve been once in my life I saw the alarm at toads place. Yeah, on a night there and I had a slice of pizza. I took a 230 train home. And I never I didn’t ever see New Haven in daylight. So that I know that’s your joint right? So we’re going to find a Runga in place. That’s like one of those theaters in New York or Long Island, one of Jersey a place I’ve never been Count Basie theatre wherever he’s gonna play. Yeah, we got to find a new place for me, Clark.
Clark Judge 41:17
The stones played it that takes place one night to the stones played there. But I’m not a stones guy. I’m a good guy. I’m a Beatles guy. And I love Todd but it’s funny when you were talking about Bowie earlier, just let you know a little known fact our daughter’s pediatrician was David Bowie’s pediatrician, his his child’s having this pediatrician in New York. And and so we lived in New York. Boy obviously lived in New York with iman and their child’s went to the same pediatrician is our daughter and when I went to tell him that guy said, You got to meet him sometime I went I don’t think so. He goes, he comes in here all the time. So I go into the pediatricians office and he’s got a wall of framed album covers framed out signed by everyone. He goes, you mentioned Todd Rundgren, he goes, I got chasm sold and stuff autograph up here. And sure enough, there was a run good thing. They had an Elvis Presley ticket. And when this is great, I love it. That’s what I love about New York. But that’s what I love about talking to you. When we can talk about football or music.
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:10
I interviewed David Bowie in 1991. On the tin Machine Tour I have that it’s up on Baltimore positive. So it’s a plug, you can go listen to it. And the day he died, which by the way will be eight years tomorrow, because His birthday is January 8 and his death. So we’re sort of in the middle day. And the day he died. My wife I just survived. She survived really about two weeks that she looked like she was going to die. And then she turned to live at Christmas time. And 15 And then Bowie died and my wife was on the treadmill that morning balled 80 pounds skin hanging off for trying to get her self back to shape and Bowie died. And I woke up and I was stunned. And I found the interview. And when I left I thought it was I was going to embarrass myself by less like hearing my voice and like the reporter and me on a phone interview on a tape and 1991. And he talked about his spirituality and he talked in the interview about how he would want to be perceived on the day he died. And I thought, you know, so I’m a bowie guy. I’m a younger guy, but this whole thing came together because Ron Gruden was singing Bowie songs. So at a later date, we’ll discuss the music of the great meatloaf and Jim Steinman on our next episode. Yeah, Clark jaw, Jericho. little bat out of hell, we’ll do that like a bat out of hell, you’ll be gone. You always hang out longer. We always bring old Cold stories. And the last time I saw you we were watching Mike Mills sing REM songs is a beautiful thing. It was great. That was a great night of my life. And a great night since the plague that night with Jim Arcee in New York. Perfect It was perfect. It was perfect. Like I love you. Take care. Hi Leslie Hyde in New Haven eat some good pizza. And if the Ravens win the Super Bowl thing or if Joe Flacco I’m gonna call you back from an Oracle perspective. And we’re going to paint all of this in February based on where we are now. And where we will be in the winner’s circle and we’ll see how all these quarterbacks work it out.
Clark Judge 44:07
I look forward to it Nestor thank you so much love Baltimore level of talking to you. Thanks to God
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:11
crabcake he can’t get those in Connecticut. You got to come down here to get that
Clark Judge 44:15
car. When you come here. Give me a call when you come here.
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:19
We’ll get pizza in your place crabcakes in my place. We’re going to do crabcake row the week of February 5 In lieu of going to the Super Bowl. If anybody has any questions, see Chad steel, but we will be here doing awesome stuff that you expect us to be doing after all of these years our 25th anniversary brought to you by curio and foreign daughter and our 25 stories of glory now up at Baltimore positive.com Stay with us
