Sure, Lamar Jackson and the offense will get all of the purple headlines but Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Ravens’ solid pass rush and defensive efforts against Jared Goff and the Deroit Lions as the differentiator in wins and losses this season.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ravens, years, sacks, pass rush, defense, linebackers, played, rusher, mike mcdonald, week, pressures, quarterback, offense, players, smith, rookie quarterbacks, point, pass, myles garrett, sunday
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are W N st Towson Baltimore a little pep in our step here this week at Baltimore positive celebrating Halloween as well as Halloween are friends at the Maryland lottery. Putting on the Maryland crab cake tour. We’re gonna get that back out on the road. I got a ton of dates. I mean, it’s so complicated that I have to figure the dates out with Thanksgiving and Christmas. But we’re gonna have tons and tons opportunity to come out and say hello had such good time at York City with my son on my birthday. Taking a little respite it’s all brought to you by our friends at wind donation. 8669 donation is the way to get in touch with them and enjoy your windows as much as I’ve enjoyed mine to yours. Or excuse me by to get two free five year 0% financing at 866 90 nation as well as our friends at Jiffy Lube multicarrier right around the corner from your little orange light goes on like mine did a week and a half ago get it into Jiffy Lube over there Mayor Boulevard or any other locations in the area. They will take great care of you this guy takes great care of us and all Ravens fans and Orioles fans when asked the Detroit Lions came to town they got their feelings hurt on Sunday. Luke Jones joins us now he is Baltimore Luke You can also follow him on social media on the Instagrams and the LinkedIn and the Twitter’s and the Facebook’s and you know we’re watching baseball but this football things gotten interesting from the Ravens perspective on Sunday I I feel like this is the blossoming of this particular version of the team obviously happened on Sunday. And dude, we spent April May, June July August offense offense Lamar left Lamar Wright obj first round picks a flowers Bateman, Andrews, JK Dobbins, the dearly departed JK Dobbins. And as it turns out, I said when the season began, watch the defense be the highlight of this team. Watch row Quan Smith be the best player on the field. And, you know, we’ll make our case for Lamar go on to the Hall of Famer row Quan Smith go on to the Hall of Fame 357 years from now, but the defense has been the consistent part of the team right I think we could say and defense had his injuries on the backside as well. But the pass rush comes the run stopping shows up and the linebackers the linebackers the linebackers it feels like it’s a bowl where Ray Lewis and Jamie sharper kind of era kind of linebacker play and I thought I think a lot of us in a lot of the smart people you DVOA and you pro football focus folks would say man linebackers there man that’s so last century that’s so not not where we pay our guys are the ravens are making a case defensively here for being an elite team on that side of the ball when no one talks about it.
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Luke Jones 02:41
Yeah, I think lots of people are talking about it But your point is well taken specifically talking about Alpha linebackers and I think I think ro Quan Smith his value and look I’ll take the Ravens for their take them at their word because Eric d’acosta himself said that from the moment ro Quan Smith arrived, he viewed him as a force multiplier, meaning makes everyone else better around him not just what he does as an inside linebacker, but, you know, I expected this defense to be good going into the season. I certainly there were questions at corner. And that wasn’t helped by the fact that Marlon Humphrey was banged up. But they’ve held up very well. On the back end of the defense. They’ve held up really well in the back end of the defense without having Marcus Williams on the field for more than what two games two and a half games, whatever it’s been, and certainly you would have expected that but for me, what has been the biggest surprise has been the pass rush for this defense. We talked all offseason. Really going back the last couple years. We’ve talked about the pass rush and waiting on it off AOA to take the next step, waiting for David Jabo to get healthy and for him to take a step. And for me to be sitting here now talking about a defense that leads the NFL in sacks. And yet what I just laid out there, adopt AOA just got back on the field Sunday for the first time since week two when he injured his ankle in Cincinnati, and David a job who was currently on injured reserve for the ravens to do what they’ve done. Without those two guys being a big part of what their pass rush has become. is really saying something about Mike McDonald. It’s saying something about Jadeveon Clowney, it’s saying a whole lot about Kyle van Noy who didn’t even join the team until after the season started for them to do what they’ve done, and to have what 11 or 12 different guys with a sack on this defense, just a matter BK doing what he’s done from the interior. It’s really really impressive because it has been such a collective effort. And I know John Harbaugh didn’t bristle but he made mention of hey, don’t it’s not just the scheme. It’s not just the coaches. It’s not just Mike McDonald. It’s not just you know, linebackers coaches, defensive line coach, like credit the players and it’s really It’s becoming really, really impressive to see this. And it’s one thing to do it against rookie quarterbacks, who are apt to take more sacks. We saw this big time with Malik Willis in the fourth quarter of the London game against the Titans where, you know, it was pretty clear he had no command of that offense whatsoever. But in coming in the Baltimore on Sunday, you had Jared Goff, playing at a very high level, you had a Lions offensive line that’s very highly regarded. And the Ravens picked up five sacks and they rattled golf early and often. And they did not allow the lions to get in any kind of a rhythm. This isn’t a pass rush that as much as guys like me, and I even noted this late last week, you look at the sack numbers, but at the same time you look at the pressure rate and some of the other metrics that tend to be a little more predictive in terms of what you’re going to be over the long haul. I still have my questions. And, you know, I still have my questions, whether they’re gonna lead the league all year in sacks just based on the fact that they don’t have a Myles Garrett or someone of that ilk. But boy, they continue to get the job done. And hats off to Mike McDonald, for the scheme and putting these guys in positions to succeed, the end of major credit to these players who continue to bring it and if you again, if you had told me in late August that the Ravens would be leading the NFL in sacks. And that’s with getting very little from adopt AOA because he’d been hurt. And same with the Jabo. I would not have believed you, I would have been quite surprised. So it really is a credit to this group. And once again, just like we talked about the offense doing this against a very credible Lions defense alliance defense that had been playing at a very high level better than credible for the ravens to do defensively what they did against that offensive line against a quarterback and Jared Goff, who all you heard all week was how great a command he’s had of that offense to rattle their cages and to hold them, not just off the scoreboard until the fourth quarter, but they didn’t even pick up a first down until midway through the second quarter. Really, really impressive. And just another feather in the cap for this ravens defense here early in 2023. As you pointed out, they’ve been the real star of this 2023 ravens team to this point.
Nestor Aparicio 07:16
Well, you know, when it comes to putting rosters together and it doesn’t take us long around here, when they draft a pass rusher like oh to say well, he’s young, and it’ll take a little bit of while it’ll take a little while we watch Matt Jude on run around on the block in the old days back in the locker room before he got paid up in New England, to Darius Smith. You know, these guys that they brought in that Paul Kruger going back a decade that it took a couple of years for it to happen for them. But the notion and Chad Brown the old pass rusher from the Steelers in the Seahawks being a buddy of ours over the years that Bill Belichick would call him in November it’s a come in. We’ve seen domata Peko come in here that these veteran 30 Something players whether it’s Elvis do Merville here at various points or even things they’ve tried on the offensive side whether it was to Sean Jackson last year these you get into 30 plus guys, and you say all right, Kyle van Noy. Nobody else wanted him. Is it? Is it a price? Is it too much money? How much are we going to pay to Davian clowny. And what does he really have left? And is it okay that he’s just a third down guy or just a pass rush specialist? What what can he teach our other players? What can young players come in and, and all of that for the past Rushaga This is Eric to Costa and George pickiness go out in the pro personnel market. And they try to figure out who can come in here and who can be a part of this. And in any year. It feels like if you’re going to be a contender, you’re going to be 1112 13 Win team. You’re gonna have one of those guys on your team. You’re gonna have a washed up for down linebacker rush edge guy who’s going to be 30 Something who has one skill set get after the quarterback set the edge maybe and on Terrell Suggs day and I can’t believe they honor him. I mean like the last thing in the world I would ever do is honor Terrell Suggs. I watched his act here for a long, long time. But it was nice to see all the old players out but on Terrell Suggs, honor day to see veteran guys such as one of those guys in Kansas City, went off and got his got his bag at the end got his ring at the end. I’ve got another ring at the end I should say. But veteran pass rushers picking the right ones. You know, the Dwight Freeney guys that can hang on and can do it forever versus not the Kyle van Noy thing. I they’re not as good a football team without him over the last seven weeks. They don’t have
Luke Jones 09:51
not I mean, we have to start with Davey on clowny because Davey on clowny has played as well as he’s played in years. I mean, he’s been that big for them. But
Nestor Aparicio 10:01
8yeah, I mean, the potential was
Luke Jones 10:03
right but nine, right one, one, but nine years ago, right if nine years ago and also micro fact fracture surgery and his own his knee and other injuries and all these ailments and an ugly exit from from Cleveland when there was perceived jealousy with him and Miles Garrett and by
Nestor Aparicio 10:18
the way, a disappointing career. He’s made a lot of money. He ended up going along with fame. I mean, like, Yeah, I mean,
Luke Jones 10:26
relative to expectations. He’s had a solid career overall. But yes, compared to the player, you thought he could be where people thought he might be Lawrence Taylor of this generation? Sure. No question about that. But yeah, I mean, they’ve they found a way to bring in and they’ve done this before. They don’t bat 1000. But they bet at a pretty high clip in doing this, bringing in some veteran players who are perceived to be past their prime. Certainly, money is an issue. And by the way, money was an issue. That’s why Kyle van Noy didn’t join the Ravens in early August, you know, that we’ve seen this play out before with guys where, you know, they’ll flirt with someone, and then they come in a month or two later. I mean, that’s kind of
8Nestor Aparicio 11:08
who they brought in pass rush wise, it hasn’t worked out. I mean, I’m trying to think of guys who they brought in. I mean, for the most part, they don’t bring in nothings. They usually bring in guys that have something
Luke Jones 11:19
unique and Gok way flopped. And that they actually gave a couple draft picks for and Earl Thomas,
Nestor Aparicio 11:25
but not that position. But on the right, right. They’ve made mistakes. They have made mistakes. Yeah, right. And
Luke Jones 11:30
8I wouldn’t I wouldn’t classify this as mistake, but Jason Pierre Paul didn’t do a lot for them. Last year, he was fine.
Nestor Aparicio 11:36
So but they were desperate. I mean, a little bit desperate, right?
Luke Jones 11:41
You’re fixating on what I said. I said they didn’t bat 1000. I didn’t say, batting 200. So listen to what I’m saying. No, they’ve done very well in that regard. And I mean, it’s something that veteran teams and teams that have good front office’s teams that have good pro personnel departments, as you just pointed out, you identify and you scout and you look at what a player is, and you don’t necessarily fixate on what a player used to be and is no longer that player. But you fixate on what do they still do? Well, and I think that’s where the Ravens have done very well for themselves. But I think what’s exciting about this, and you know, certainly you give the veteran guys all the credit in the world, but because they’ve done such a good job, and they played at such a high level, despite the fact that neither one of them had, you know, especially in the case of Illinois, he had no training camp whatsoever. clowny had about two weeks of one, but now you see a dot AOA come back on Sunday. And he played his butt off. I mean, he had five pressures, he had a sack, he got a couple holding calls against him, you know, in terms of rushing the passer and forcing what who was at saw at right tackle. So I mean, he really, that was good to see. And we saw him play really well in week one. And then he gets hurt relatively early in week two, and he goes away for a month because he had an ankle sprain that had him in a walking boot for at least a couple of weeks because I saw it with my own eyes. But now you add him back to the mix. You will see what happens with the job Oh, in terms of returning to practice. So now it’s you have this pass rush that is leaving the NFL in sacks and it’s an ensemble cast, you know as much as we praise clowny and Van Noy because they’re the vets and they’ve come in and they’ve done this look at what just a matter BK is doing he’s he’s got five and a half sacks already. That young man is making himself some money in a contract year. I mean, he’s very well pricing himself out of Baltimore quite, quite, quite to be honest. But because he’s been that good and you just wonder how much he might warrant on the open market. But in the meantime, you have guys all over the place. Patrick queen, you know one of the best blitzing inside linebackers in the NFL. I think that’s say what you want about Patrick, Queens Overall Game Over the last two or three years. He’s shown an aptitude to do that from a very early stage of his career. So you have him and I mean, you just Arthur Mallette blitz from the nickel spot. We’ve seen Marlon Humphrey blitz from a corner spot. I mean, I’ll Hamilton I owe Hamilton. I mean, you go down the list, they have so many different ways to create pressure. And this goes back to Mike McDonald and scheme and so yeah, in an ideal world, you know what? You have Myles Garrett and scenario Smith like the Browns have right now. Right? And you line up and you can rush with four and you can make it look, you know, it’s relatively conventional. There’s not a whole lot of disguise, although every team runs stunts and games with our D line to scheme up some prep opportunities, but it’s just been across the board where, again, you look at this defense and you say, Okay, who are the dominant pass rushers? Oh clown. He’s played at a really high level but it’s been in the league nine years and we know his history and you know Being on the wrong side of 30 and same with Kyle van Noy has never really been regarded as this great pass rusher he’s been more of a you know a SAM linebacker who kind of jack of all trades does it all but you add those two to the mix and you get what you’re getting from Justin Matta BK but you go down the list. I mean, they had a number of guys register in either a sack or just multiple pressures. You know that the idea that you get a quarterback like Jared Goff, who’s such a rhythm guy that I no matter BK said it after the game that Mike McDonald was preaching all week, if you can get golf rattled early, he’s the kind of guy that will turtle up I know that that would be disrespectful to a guy who’s been a solid quarterback for several years. But you can really get him off his game you can really get him out of whack and it’s tough for him to get straightened up again. But now you look at it and I’m looking at the next gen stats right now Kyle van Noy five pressures and I say oh a five pressures clowny four pressures Mata BK four pressures, Michael Pierce, who has low key given them some pressure as an inside pass rusher. And you don’t think that from run stopping nose tackle. So it’s really come from all over the place. And it’s you know, when you see what they did on Sunday, you do that against an offensive line that was very highly regarded. That’s exciting. You know, it’s one thing to do it against rookie quarterbacks who are running around and holding the ball too long, and they don’t know what they’re doing, right. I mean, we see that rookie quote, it’s not a coincidence that rookie quarterbacks tend to lead the league and in times being sacked. It’s not just because of their offensive line. It’s because they don’t know what they’re doing right. And they don’t know where the ball is going. And they’re holding it. And they’re, you know, that creates opportunities. But when you do that against Jared Goff, and an operation that had been as impressive as this Lions offense through the first six weeks of the season, that that makes me look at that defense, look at that pass rush a little bit differently than I was when you’re doing to get against Malik Willis. So you’re doing it against the kid in Cleveland, whoever the other
Nestor Aparicio 17:04
thing about is when you’re losing 28th to nothing, at least this is a credible offensive attack that can at any point go out and take six plays and go down the field beat you that on every play. Yeah, you’re pinning your you know your your pain and back and getting after him. But you have to get after him. And they didn’t complete 300 yards of offense and wind up scoring 21 points. Once they fell behind the getting Garbage Time touch it, they got the one touchdown. And that was it. And I think the defense will eat rocks for the next six days because of that, right? Because the shutout was what they had left to pitch. But to your point when you’re losing like that, and you’re passing on every down, you want to see five pressures for pressure six, because that’s what they’re not going to first attend. They’re not running the ball when they’re down four touchdowns. Yeah, no
8Luke Jones 17:54
question about it. And even with that, okay, they gave up yardage, who cares about yardage. I mean that Sunday was a perfect example, when you look at the final numbers and you see the yardage that Jared golf had you see the yardage that the lions had. And that’s why I don’t dwell on yardage. That’s why I look at, you know, success rate and DVOA. And different things like that.
Nestor Aparicio 18:12
And shorts would always tell me back in the day statistics and football are worthless, like worthless at the end, like you look at the end and say, what does the stat tell me about the actual game? Probably nothing is on this ledger. I mean, you can see sometimes it’s lopsided, but you can see stats that are close and you say the game, the stats didn’t play it out that way, certainly the second half the way the Ravens played the game are being off the field, all of that. I mean, it was a it was a dominating effort. And defensively, you know, I, I still think they can be better. Like Marlon Humphreys not having a great you’re in bed on the field. I mean, to your point, Marcus waves a lot of the investment they made. And you talk about not paying running backs. And I think to myself using a one one for miles Garrett or maybe in the day Davian clowny. Back with Houston, the Ravens go about value differently. I guess that was a little bit of my point. With April, we talked about the draft, who are they going to draft that’s the next pass rusher. That’s, they’re not there. They’re going to spend money on a player and they’re going to get great value on a 30 something something and they’re going to find somebody not that they’re teaching how to do it, who might be able to do it like a toffee OA, but somebody who’s done it and somebody who’s going to be 10 cents on the dollar for the value. The Monday morning after a game when you see what these guys can do. If you get them at that point. I feel like Rush edges you can still do it in their 30s they’re like the best value going best bang for your buck and football if you get the right one. And the Ravens have gotten a couple of them and and have made a living doing this since belcheck. Did it 15 years ago. Yeah,
Luke Jones 19:54
I mean, and again, a lot of that is just opportunity, right? I mean, they value packs pass rushers are they don’t drafted off AOA in the first round you don’t draft David Jabo in the second round knowing that he’s probably not going to give you anything his rookie year because he’s injured but they
Nestor Aparicio 20:08
8don’t value it like giving the Darius Smith $50 million. Like even mad a BK in the mid tried
Luke Jones 20:13
to get it. They tried to give the Darius Smith money last offseason and we saw, I mean big money
Nestor Aparicio 20:18
when he went to Green Bay, I’m talking about where but when it comes to bring a bag a month,
Luke Jones 20:23
most of those guys aren’t available, though. I mean, those those pass rushers that are truly available in the open market. Sorry, you’re breaking up on me a little bit there. But they value pass rushers, you know, or you don’t draft that guy in the first round. The point is, it’s difficult, right? I mean, it’s difficult. You just said it one, one. Well, they’re not drafting one one ever. I mean, they’re not picking in the top five. So you’re not going to get Myles Garrett, you’re not going to get to Davey on clowny, you’re not going to get Khalil Mack who have years ago, they very much coveted but weren’t able to make it happen. So. So you have to you go about it different ways, right? I mean, you can’t get every single player that’s available in the NFL, I mean, and so many of them don’t become available, right? I mean, you, you make mention of the rare guy that hits the open market as as a pass rusher an elite pass rusher. Usually the top of the market is kind of what Matthew junan was. And that step from that standpoint, they said we didn’t value him to that degree. We they franchised them the year before that. So it’s not as though they didn’t value him at all. But But yeah, you know, to truly get those elite of elite guys, it’s very, very difficult, you know, in terms of having the draft pick to do it, or having the financial flexibility to do it well, within the constraints of the salary cap. So, yeah, you got to make it work, you’ve got to figure things out. And we’ve seen the Ravens pivot, you know, we’ve talked about this idea of positional value, that’s a moving target. You know, it really is, for years, they did not value the center position in terms of using early draft picks, or spending a ton of money, you know, they went from Matt Burke, and then basically a decade until drafting Tyler Linder bomb. And in between there, they had a lot of late round picks. And third and fourth tier free agent types like Jeremy Zuta. Some veteran guys like that. I mean, they didn’t use major resources on that position for a long time. But then you get exceptions to the rule, like a Tyler Linder bomb, who they valued very highly. So things change, you know, safety. We talked about that for a number of years. And then suddenly, Kyle Hamilton becomes available in the middle of the first round, and you’ve got a top five grade on him. We’ve seen how that worked out. So
8Nestor Aparicio 22:37
they’re always spending money to on safety. I mean, safety was a place where back in the day Billick would say add your safety can’t pay you like that modern era, you know, whether it was Earl Thomas Marcus Williams, I mean, they they really valued that position in a way to go out and try to fortify it in a way maybe even more so than pass rusher, which to my point, don’t just go sign one on the market and save a little bit of money and play him on third down and hope that it works out. And Chuck Smith. I you know, I’ve had Shawn Merriman on a couple of times, and he’s talked about Chuck Smith, and about teaching the art of pass rush and bringing to Davian clowny. And bringing they’ve always got a guy in their room who can teach it, whether it was Terrell Suggs all those years, right.
Luke Jones 23:23
Yeah, I mean Terrell Suggs yet Elvis Tuberville, you know, I mean, you had Justin Houston the last couple years. I mean, they’ve certainly had guys like that. I mean, what Chuck Smith, I mean, it’s tough for me to to evaluate him from afar in the sense that it hasn’t been Oh way in a Javo doing this for them, per se, although certainly Oh, way in the cup. The two games that he’s played this year has looked really really good. How much is Chuck Smith teaching to Davey on clowny at this point in his career, how much is he teaching Kyle van Noy at this point in his career? I mean, there are tweaks here and there and I’m not saying that Chuck Smith hasn’t done a really good job I mean the the results speak for themselves but typically you bring in a coach like that to develop your young guys and unfortunately for the Ravens the young guys on the edge haven’t been on the field because of injuries so but you know the operation it’s been impressive and again they’ve made it work and when you’re when you’re leading the NFL in sacks through seven weeks whether they’re gonna lead the NFL in sacks all year or not, you’re doing something right. So again, coaching players mix of vets and guys from different positions and creativity and all that it’s working at a at a very high level and again, for me, I did want to see it against the better offense against the better quarterback you know, again, putting pressure on rookie quarterbacks and doing those types of things. That’s not that’s not out of the ordinary right rookie. quarterbacks take a ton of sacks. You know, look at look in Washington right now how you know who’s a second year quarterback? I mean, he’s on pace to take like 100 sacks this year. I mean, it’s crazy. But young guys David Carr range so so when you have a Jared Goff you know someone who typically is looking to get the ball out quick, and you have an offensive line that’s highly regarded with a lot of former early picks. You do that against them. And look how much of it was because the offense, it’s all complimentary, right? You know, your offense scores, four touchdowns on its first four drives, your defense forces a three and out on its first three drives. I mean, it’s it all feeds into each you know, they all feed into each other when you play like that, but for the defense to do that, against that kind of an offense against that kind of a quarterback. When you know you looked over the first six weeks of the season, Houston rookie quarterback, Cincinnati Joe burrow, playing on one leg and the Bengals being all all out of sorts, you know, early in the season, especially Indianapolis backup quarterback, Cleveland, a guy whose now their third string quarterback starting that game in an emergency setting. Pittsburgh, we’ve talked about their offensive woes, Tennessee, same thing, you know, so you can you can put a caveat, you can put an asterisk next to any of those performances if you want it to not saying that I would for every single one, but you get my point. Doing that against Detroit and making Jared Goff harassing him and making him look downright feeble. When he had played like a top five quarterback through the first six weeks of the season, when that O line it looked like one of the two or three best offensive lines early in the season. That’s saying something about your pass rush about your defense about your scheme. And the ravens, you know, the offense you know, they they garner the attention because it was that breakout performance but boy the defense was outstanding on Sunday too.
Nestor Aparicio 26:41
You say the lines are missing. They’re running back, but I don’t think that would have mattered on Sunday. Look, John says Here he is Baltimore. Luca we are discussing. I can’t believe we just did a half an hour didn’t say the word Lamar a lot of defense going on leading the league in sacks as well. Ravens on top of the world now at five and two and heading out to Arizona for late game against the Cardinals. This week. Luke will be on the backfield and Owings Mills because they let him all week I’ll be somewhere and on social media, you can find me you can also email me Ness at Baltimore positive.com And we’re going to take the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by the Maryland lottery conjunction with window nation as well as Jiffy Lube out on the road. We have a very, very aggressive crabcake tour schedule heading into I’m gonna have some pumpkin pie and some turkey. Maybe some eggnog with my crab cakes coming up here as we get the holiday season out. Here’s Luke I’m Nestor we’re talking football stick around we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive.
