The scandal and saga of the Justin Tucker disgrace is over for the Baltimore Ravens. On Monday, they “moved on” from the kicker. Luke Jones and Nestor react and opine about the Ravens’ discharge of Justin Tucker for football reasons. (It couldn’t have been the 16 allegations of predatory sexual behavior by women all over town…)
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Ravens’ decision to cut Justin Tucker, a move they criticized as a misguided attempt to avoid media scrutiny. They highlighted Tucker’s decorated career and the team’s history of handling scandals poorly, citing past incidents like Ray Rice. Jones acknowledged the complexity of the situation, noting Tucker’s recent poor performance and the NFL investigation. Aparicio expressed deep disappointment in the Ravens’ lack of integrity and their tendency to cover up misconduct. They also touched on the potential impact of the NFL investigation and Tucker’s future prospects in the league.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Justin Tucker, Ravens, football decision, NFL investigation, misconduct, media relations, Ray Rice, John Harbaugh, Eric DeCosta, kicker competition, public relations, team reputation, player discipline, fan reaction, sports scandal.
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:02
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive, and we are taking the Maryland crab cake tour on the road. Will be at red brick station in White Marsh. The Avenue White Marsh will have the Back to the Future scratch offs on Wednesday, and then we’re gonna be doing the show from the Maryland party in Las Vegas, if you had a chance to hear Howard Perlow talk about really the biggest networking event in the state. Doesn’t happen in the state. It happens in Las Vegas. It happens on PreK weekend. We’ll be there next week, also a bunch of Preakness guests next week, whether sovereignty is coming to old hilltop or not, we’ll find out for the final trip at the old new Pimlico, or the new old Pimlico, whatever it’s going to be. Ravens cut a kicker right around the end of business, close of business on Monday afternoon on the Cinco de Mayo. I guess everybody had a couple of cocktails. I’m bringing Luke Jones in. I you know, I want to write about it. At some point I’m going to write it, Dear Justin Tucker, don’t let the you know, don’t, don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out of town. I got a lot of things I want to say. I’m a little fatigued by all of it, to be honest with you. I know you were at the liar’s luncheon a couple weeks ago, in the liar’s press conference Friday, like just the way this team conducts business. I call it sleazy, but I don’t even know what else to call it, because on Friday, we’re going to do this and that, and then on Monday, the issue of press release, ostensibly to stay away from you and the other reporters, because they don’t have to meet the media for three and a half weeks, right?
Luke Jones 01:34
I mean, they released them and, you know, you and I spoke earlier the same morning, you know that morning and you were still questioning whether they were going to do it. Look, I’m not going to sit here and pat them on the back. Let me be clear. That’s not what it’s about. But my point is, when you’re in a position like this, with one of the most decorated players in franchise history, who was a slam dunk for the Ring of Honor was someone who was very much on his way to the Hall of Fame. I will also grant the reality that that’s not an easy situation to proceed to move forward with. And not going to sit here and say that the Ravens did everything perfectly. I mean, the statement they made refers to it as a football decision. I think we all know the truth here.
Nestor Aparicio 02:23
Well, that’s what I’m getting at, that the I’m getting at they’re gonna get the trail off themselves of their culpability in this awful misogyny power play using status, fame, money, wealth, to hide really awful things and and hiding behind the shield of being the ravens, and if it’s a football decision, he stunk last year. You said that. I’ve said that everybody saw said that they could have moved on from him in February the way they moved on from Ed Reed when they were done with him. You know what? I mean, literally,
Luke Jones 02:59
8yeah. But I also think they would have gotten criticism no matter how they did this. I mean, they just would have, and criticism
Nestor Aparicio 03:05
is whether they, the people in the building knew about this and went and sent them at the kitchen, and that’s, that’s no, that’s really no. And they’re running from that. Eric the cost is running from that. John Harbaugh is running for that. They’re running from everything. I mean, they are such cowardly people for being tough guys. They really are like, putting the thing out on Monday where they get to run from all of you for three and a half weeks because they don’t see the media. That’s the reason people are like, Why Monday? What’s the timing? Just check the press conference schedule with Chad Steele, and that would give you an indication of why Monday. Because it wasn’t after June one. They could have talked about this anytime they knew they were going to draft a kicker like all of this is eye wash is your word. I think the word you use is worse than I wash. It’s dirtier than that. It’s muddy water. Yeah,
Luke Jones 03:48
I mean, and again, I’m I’m not gonna stick up for them, but I’m also gonna say they’re gonna get criticized no matter how they did this. You know, if they cut them the day it happened, they were gonna have fans say, Well, you didn’t give this guy any semblance of due process. You didn’t let there be any kind of an NFL investigation playing out. And then when they do that, all the NFL investigation is bull hockey, right? I mean, again, you and I were talking Monday morning, and you were still expressing doubt whether they were even going to move on from,
Nestor Aparicio 04:18
is the NFL investigation going to lead back to Owings Mills in one morning drive that people in the building knew about this. And there’s no way in the world. Steve Bucha, he couldn’t have known about this, because two of his people were involved, you know, in owning, owning massage parlors, 16 places around the city that this went on for a decade, and no one in the building ever knew about it. Is that? What that? And this is a football to see. I mean, bull hockey was the word you use. I have an FCC license. It’s just, it’s sleazy. That’s, that’s what I would say. It’s sleazy,
8Luke Jones 04:48
and that’s fine. My point is, there’s no way they could have proceeded with this that they wouldn’t have been criticized. So you get to a point and you say, What? What path do you choose? Right? I mean, again, you. Were suggesting they might not care at all, and he and he would kick for them in the fall, that they didn’t do that so
Nestor Aparicio 05:04
well. They didn’t cut it because of anything he did. Now, right? I mean, the press release said that, so
Luke Jones 05:08
we know why they caught him. I mean, look, there’s also, there’s also a part of this. And this is all what I always tried to keep in mind, that you’re talking about someone that the organization had an affinity for someone who’s very accomplished, someone that a lot of people around town are sad about how this played out, right? Not, not sad in the way that, oh, I have sympathy for Justin Tucker, because ultimately, you know when you’re talking about this many accusations, clearly you brought something on yourself. But just when you’re talking about someone who men as much as he did to people around here, there is a sadness to that. I know my sister and my mom had Justin Tucker jerseys, for example, right?
Nestor Aparicio 05:50
8So I did not know that so and
Luke Jones 05:52
again, that’s not to say that that they met, they thought he was innocent, or that he shouldn’t be caught, or anything like that, but you’re talking about someone this is the last remaining player from the Super Bowl 47 team. You know, let, let, let that marinate for a few moments when you just think about that. So it’s just, it’s a sad end to what should have been a really decorated getting the video, getting the Ring of Honor, maybe the Hall of Fame, and it’s none of that he walks out the door as a disgraced individual, right? And not getting any of that. And, you know, Eric Acosta said some nice things, but they caught him. And yeah, they can call it a football decision, and yet, in part, sure, you know, but we know that wasn’t the overwhelming
Nestor Aparicio 06:36
complicated would this have been if he actually kicked the ball last year like he did the first 13 years,
Luke Jones 06:41
sure, you know? I mean, it’s, you know? I mean, that’s always part of this, right? I mean, we talked about this, you know, why you do what you do with Ray Rice, compared to, if it’s the 53rd guy on the roster, you know, he’s gone, right? So again,
8Nestor Aparicio 06:56
he’s Ben Cleveland, or he’s draftable and falls in the draft like Mike Green. Then you consider him. You don’t just consider him. You take him and you make excuses for him and tell him it really wasn’t that bad, but you did what you did to get thrown out of Virginia. Doesn’t matter here.
Luke Jones 07:10
Yeah, I guess. I mean, again, you’re going to criticize them no matter how they do it, and that’s fine, and I’m not. I’m not sitting here defending
Nestor Aparicio 07:17
the only criticizing them because they have a long history of doing sleazy stuff. See your press credential and see mine not there anymore, and, you know, just down the line for everything I know and the things that they try to run from, they try to run from their own sleaze. And I’m not gonna let them, I mean, I’m gonna watch them play football. I’m gonna talk about how good they are, and Lamar is going to the Hall of Fame. But they are, they are not a zero tolerance organization. They’re not. They’ve never proud as they mean,
Luke Jones 07:48
8they could say, they can say that, you know, they can talk in passing when it’s convenient to say that they’ve never been I mean, because the the evidence suggests that you know John Harbaugh saying it in passing, talking about someone other, some other teams, problem into Sean Watson, yeah, you know, as I said, a zero tolerance policy for anyone, not the ravens, or any, anyone, is something that you say when it’s convenient for you to say it to pat yourself. By the way, what did you think that you’re going to
Nestor Aparicio 08:13
give him an Oscar for that performance on Friday? That was pretty good out of season, right out of season, John’s a little different. I went back and said, was Sunday, the, oh my god, the press conference wasn’t even Friday. I’m getting my weekend. So you went over there on Sunday. Yeah, I told you, based on the tone, that I thought that his release was coming. And you kind of, you kind of, you know what? All over, my opinion on that. So I don’t know, I said You, you, you speak hardball better than I do. You speak a liar. Is that’s the exact quote. The exact quote was, you speak a liar better than I do. So you saw him lying, knew he was lying, and I’m the idiot to believe what he said that I guess maybe they released him a day later, he sat there and spoke to you, knowing they that he were they were releasing it.
Luke Jones 08:57
He said that they said there was a decision coming at some point in the next few weeks. And to me, that was code, that they had no intention for him being on the team once OTA started. When you know, as I said to you all along, they haven’t played a single football game since these accusations came out. They haven’t practiced a single time since these accusations came out. It is one thing to carry a player on your roster and proceed with some semblance of whatever you want to call it, due process, letting this play out, looking into it yourselves, looking letting the league look into it, letting more media look into it, you know what? However, all that entire scope of possibilities when you’re not playing any football games and you’re not practicing and there’s limited media access, and Justin Tucker’s not a public figure for those months of the football calendar year. It’s much more it’s much more palatable, for lack of a better term, to proceed with him on your roster. But when you’re getting to the point where you’ve now drafted your kicker, who you think is going to replace him, as I’ve said, I’m still. Not going to bet my mortgage at Tyler loops kicking for them week one. He’s got to, got to win the job. They’re going to bring in another kicker. They had another kicker in rookie camp. Now I’m guessing they’re going to sign another kicker, and there’s going to be a competition, and if those guys look shaky, they’ll sign another veteran and bring someone in. I mean, you know, say what you want about Justin Tucker, in terms of what he was in 24 you’re still talking about replacing the most accurate kicker in NFL history. That’s still a task that’s easier said than done from a football standpoint, even if, even if this was in their minds of fait accompli by the you know, certainly by the time they drafted Tyler Luke but, you know, but when you got to the point where media were going to be out there for an OTA in late May, you know, the Wednesday after Memorial Day, and cameras were going to be out there, and people were going to see number nine, still in a Ravens uniform, going out to the now,
Nestor Aparicio 10:53
there are no more questions, right? They bought themselves a month. Maybe there’s a little something. They’re onto the new kicker, but though, in their mind, they’ll never have to answer a question about this again, in their mind, that’s what they’re thinking. Sure, that’s the that was the MO of doing this on Monday and lying to you on Sunday like that. That the MO is three and a half weeks from now, we’ll be talking Beth. Is that a football question? Luke Justin Tucker is not working anymore, right? Next question
8Luke Jones 11:21
they’re gonna be about it, yeah, about it as they should be asked about it. Um, any any answers that are going to be satisfactory? He’s not
Nestor Aparicio 11:29
here anymore. That’s what they’re going to say, right? That’s the answer,
Luke Jones 11:32
but probably the gist of it, yeah. I mean, I don’t know what you’re expecting them to to actually say that would be a satisfactory to any of the questions, because if they did know about it deep down, they’re certainly not going to broadcast that. I mean, we, you know, I don’t know if they did right. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 11:48
8you know, a lot of people knew, apparently, from what I from what I gathered, but, but you also said that you didn’t.
Luke Jones 11:53
And I, I can’t say that I had ever heard anything.
Nestor Aparicio 11:58
Certainly heard it and took it to Eric, the Costa, he would have done the same thing he did when I went to him and told him I had a drunk player at my show last night. Nothing, nothing, nothing. Okay, same thing. I mean, they drafted this kid, Mike Green. They’ve resigned bank Cleveland immediately. There is no the standard. There is. And I said this on Monday morning, you know, we’re gonna win or we’re gonna lose. That’s the only thing that matters. We live behind the gated community. We all make a million dollars a year, 10 million or 15 million a year doesn’t matter. It just doesn’t matter. The owner doesn’t have to answer questions. Chat will handle it and, you know, throw out anybody that has a really tough question, and we’ll just play football and make 200 million a year. I mean, that’s, that’s the way the business operates at this point. It doesn’t operate on anything else. It doesn’t even, no matter how bad anybody behaves on the field off the field.
Luke Jones 12:52
Justin Tucker, but they did come play football, but they did cut him. You know, you’re looking at this in a black or white because of football reasons. Nestor, I mean, I
8Nestor Aparicio 13:04
this is way in the game with you, that they that they play with me on my press credential. Am I real media member? Well, my point is, there’s clearly still there, but there’s clearly some I’m not saying it’s good the right standard. I’m not saying it’s good standard, but they caught him.
Luke Jones 13:22
I mean, if they, if they truly didn’t care at one iota, then he’d still be on their team, and then they would, at the very
Nestor Aparicio 13:28
least Top 10 kicker that they thought couldn’t kick anymore. They would have caught him a long time ago. But, yeah, yeah. I, I mean, we can play this game all day, and I can, I can wear the bashati at I can, I can lie to you all day like John Harbaugh does, and, you know, throw salt over my shoulder, you know, like, I don’t know. I just think we all need to lower our standards and our expectations, lower the bar, because they they’ve already lowered the bar, and for us to have, for your sister, your mother, to have higher standards than them, that’s just gonna be, I’ve met your mother and your sister. They’re better people, you know, like, you know, there’s a different standard for the way that they’re going to operate than what they say. And I’m going to call them out on that, and I’ll call them liars and frauds and, you know, all of that stuff, but they really only care about winning football games that, like, There literally is no other standard in that build there really isn’t well,
Luke Jones 14:23
8then I would still say Justin Tucker would still be on the roster, if, if they didn’t care at all, like, if it, if this was truly an all or nothing proposition, Justin Tucker would still be on the roster. Now, did they handle it properly? Did they was the timing of this right? Should they have cut him back in on February 2? You know, lots of people would feel that way, and I’m not going to sit here and say that they should or shouldn’t have, but he’s not on the roster anymore, and they can say it’s a football decision. We know it’s not. I mean, we know it maybe in part, the fact that Justin Tucker had the worst season of his career certainly makes it easier to move on from him compared to if. Was 30 of 31 last year, and was seven of eight on kicks over 50 yards. But, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s all part of it, right? And you know, that’s why, in any case of, you know, I kind of don’t subscribe to the idea of a zero tolerance policy in general, because life is does have a lot of nuance, and life does have a lot of gray, but when you’re talking about accusations from 16 different massage therapists over a five year period, who all had collaborative stories that were consistent in elements that kept popping up and, you know, weren’t contradictory in nature, predatory is the word, yeah. I mean, you know, you can’t overlook that, right? I mean, you know, it’s one two, okay, I’ll hear what you have to say, one or
Nestor Aparicio 15:49
two. They draft you just in the second round, yeah? Well, this is what they did. You know, I’m just, I’m not trying to play the other side of this and play foil to you, but like, there’s an answer for all of this, and a lot of it’s not good. And the answer really is, the owner is checked out. He’s a billionaire. He doesn’t care the head coach is a made guy, and all he cares about is one more Super Bowl so he can go to the Hall of Fame, because he’s never going to spend all the money he’s made. So, you know, this is really about really wealthy, entitled humans. John Harbaugh, Steve Bucha, Eric da Costa, forget Justin Tucker. Third Tucker in he’s got 70 million in the bank. I mean, you know, like the Tucker thing, if I’m going after Tucker, and I’ve said this before, it’s for going after Julie sharper, it’s for going after journalists. It’s for calling them scumbags. It’s for calling them liars. It’s calling them yellow journalists, all the names
Luke Jones 16:52
that let’s go after. I mean, if these accusations are true, I care about that way more than just going after journalists, you know, being a creep to to women that are doing a job. You know that that that needs to be first and foremost. Oh, then every everything you mentioned after
Nestor Aparicio 17:09
his answer wasn’t Those girls are lying. His answer was, these journalists are bad people.
8Luke Jones 17:18
Well, but, but his answer, you know, when you say it’s not true, you don’t need to say the people are lying. You know, the implication is that you’re saying all the women accusing you are lying, right? I mean, I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 17:30
look, the whole Julie sharper had her name on it, dirty and up the chest. I mean,
Luke Jones 17:35
the whole, the whole thing is, the whole thing is being Justin Tucker.
Nestor Aparicio 17:38
8If I say that out loud, if I see him rose, I see him out having a Starbucks. I’d say that, like I said, it’s anchored by this.
Luke Jones 17:44
It’s really disappointing on so many levels. And as I said, while it I’m it’s not on in the forefront of my mind and my thinking, but it’s a lot of kids in this town have really looked up to Justin Tucker, and a lot of people in this town really loved watching him play for a long time, and he made a lot of big kicks, helped his team win a lot of games over the years, and for a legacy to end in this manner. And again, not this is not me expressing sympathy for him, but I do express some sympathy for certainly, you know, the the those who’ve accused him of these things and victims and but, but even just going beyond that, just from Ravens fans who really liked rooting for him. And again, this kind of goes back to what we talked about one of our pre recent conversations, just you know, that sense of disillusionment that you get when you know, you kind of realize that you know whether you’re talking about your heroes or civic entities, you know, like professional sports teams, whatever, aren’t what it’s cracked up to be, or aren’t what you thought it was. And you know, that’s disappointing on that level too. You know, certainly not on the same level as of the sympathy you have for the these 16 women and however, many more who maybe did not come forward, that I
Nestor Aparicio 19:06
was thinking of the women that when he, when he requested such favors, actually felt so compelled to go through with it, that that’s the part that sickens me throughout all of this, Because I haven’t heard from those people either, but I, I’m all of it is, is something that ravens should really be ashamed of and really be they, but they have no shame that I’ve learned that about John horrible and Eric the Costa, they are. They’re serial when it comes to being shameless, to this moment about my press credential and your and you having one like to this moment they are, they have no shame, and that allows their paycheck, allows them to move on and their status and their gated community, like I see it and I feel it. It’s different than when Brian Billick was here. It’s different than when Ted March abroad was here. It’s different than. Know that models were here. It’s different. You feel it’s different 15 years later because you’ve covered it, you see that I’m they’ve thrown me out. I’m in El Salvador, in the prison man, I’m gone. I’m thrown out. I’m not a media member anymore, because they’re, they’re really, really lacking integrity. PR guy, and they’re really, really lacking integrity, complete office look the other way when they were all in on it. So I saw this. I see the way they behave and how they behave toward me, you, my family, my audience, our sponsors. 30 years of doing this every day, they are shameless, sleazy people. That’s how I see it. And I’m not seeing it from outside the cage. I’m seeing it from inside the building. I know these people. I know what they’re capable of. I know what they’re capable of covering up. Everybody does. We saw it with Ray Rice every no one lost their job but Ray Rice, and he’s now teaching your children, if you if, if your kids are good enough to play mill for mill Academy. So part of my message to Justin Tucker is, yeah, it’s a disgrace. Today. You called it a disgrace, and that’s not your word. I heard my dude, Matt on 100.7 I was driving up for a meeting and listen to some classic rock. He called it a disgrace. And I’m thinking, Man, I thought, I thought I was the tough guy. I thought I was the prick around here. You guys are all tougher than me lately, but the disgrace of it really sits in Owings Mills because they, they called it a football decision. They they’ve acted like it hasn’t happened for three months. Whatever this NFL investigation is going to be, that’s another, like, little unbutton the part of this that’s going to come at some point, and it’s going to be team Raven, right? I guess it’s going to say he did this, I guess, because that’s what all the girls are going to say. That’s what all the reporting was. I know the NFL investigators went to the same people that the Banner had. I know the lawyers in town that are representing the women for whatever lack of better term there is because I don’t think they have a lawsuit, but this is really about the organization and about in the middle of all of this. They drafted Mike green in the middle of all of this. They signed a guard, seventh offensive lineman that they didn’t need to sign after having blown a double deuce on a DUI like they don’t care about any of this. They don’t they, and they’re probably laughing that we’re talking about it, laughing all the way to the bank, because I just don’t think it bothers them. I don’t think it bothers their wives. You know what I mean? I just don’t I, I have no sense of any of that from them, if they’re going to call this a football decision.
Luke Jones 22:44
Well, it clearly bothers them to some degree. Or they they would have Justin Tucker would still be on the roster. Then, I mean, doesn’t mean you won the brought in competition. You know, we were talking about that in December and January, about Justin Tucker, whether he was gonna, you know, be the kicker the following year. You know, we talked about that back in November and December, we were talking about that so, but yes, that’s not me disagreeing with you from the standpoint of they don’t care. Let’s just say the threshold is certainly way higher than maybe you thought it
8Nestor Aparicio 23:19
was. They’re willing to lie, that’s that they’re, well, sure, and that’s the big thing. I mean, any point, anytime they clearly willing to lie and call it football, let’s,
Luke Jones 23:28
I mean, Let’s call a spade a spade. They’re not going to put out a lengthy statement, completely crushing. Someone that’s been with their organization for 13 years, someone that you know all of this aside, had an affinity for even just because he was really good at his job. And if
Nestor Aparicio 23:45
I live long enough, and you live long enough, he’ll come back and be the star of the game. He will be, he’ll be a legend of the game. If he lives long enough,
Luke Jones 23:52
8maybe, I think
Nestor Aparicio 23:57
we’ll see Ray Rice punched his wife in the face in a glass elevator, lied to everyone about it, and they brought him back and put the shield on him, and they pay him the run around and greet fans like
Luke Jones 24:08
what I think, I think a big Well, come on, man, I’m gonna, I’m gonna push back a little bit on that from the situation. That is a situation where he and his wife, to this day, are together. I’m not. And to be clear, this is not me saying, Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that Ray Rice should have been legend of the game. I you know. But where I view this as different is that his wife found it in her heart and in her personal decision to forgive him. To this day they are together. Has been any question, any whisper of any domestic strife between them in the 11 years, or, you know, at that point, what nine years, I guess it was at that point when he, when he was legend of the game. Would I? Would I? Would I have done that? Would I still have made that move, having acknowledged all that? No, but I understand the pathway for that is a little bit different than
Nestor Aparicio 25:04
there was no pushback on that. There was no national pushback. There was no reporting on Ray Rice being the legend of the game. Ray Rice was the legend of the game. They snuck it in. They brought him back. It’s like, but don’t do that with Justin Tucker. My point shot, he lives long enough,
8Luke Jones 25:19
see, I’m not sure about because where’s the what’s the path for a redemption story for Justin Tucker here, short of like the 16 women coming public and saying, No, we weren’t telling his wife still loves him, she put out a statement too, yeah, but he didn’t do this to his wife. This was 16 other women. I think
Nestor Aparicio 25:35
this. I hear the sister. I’m a guy with a wife. I hear you loud and clear. I’m just saying just,
Luke Jones 25:42
I just think, these are apples. All they’re they’re different. They’re very different circumstances. Okay, if you think John suckers never coming back again, I would have told you that when they were burning Ray Wright’s jerseys down there 10 years ago that I wanted to take the whole chapter out of my book. I’m just saying that’s graced at the time. I’m just saying that’s a very different situation of something as and let me be clear, this is not me making light of what Ray Rice did to his wife in that elevator. However, when there’s a pathway of it’s your domestic partner that clearly forgave you. You got married, you are still together years later, by every account that’s out there, seems like has stayed out of trouble, has remained blissful. You know, ultimately, that’s between them and
Nestor Aparicio 26:32
8the Lord. I said a million times. I always liked Ray Rice. I was a Ray Rice guy. I never liked Justin Tucker. So I’d say that from go my wife and I, every time he would kick the ball, we had a name for him. I’m not going to say it out late. It’s a feminine product. I like. We had a name for him in our house when I still had a press credential. That’s how I felt about him. So I never liked Justin Tucker. And I’ll say that out loud, I’d say to his face, I didn’t like that. He drank Starbucks and talked about drinking royal farms because I was royal farm sponsor. And I don’t think you do that. I had a million read just the way tree. I never liked Justin Tucker. I liked Ray Rice. I respected Ray Rice. I always enjoyed Ray Rice. I haven’t spoken to Ray Rice in 11 years, but I’m not anti I want to make that clear that I’m i This is about the ravens, sure, and how they deal with their own shame skeletons and their own problems, and they don’t do a good job with it. They don’t. They don’t. I’m
Luke Jones 27:32
not going to sit here and say they did. I will say that they showed some semblance of caring about it to some degree, because they they wouldn’t have cut them at this point. They would have, at the very least had a competition between him and Tyler loop. And if Tyler loop beat him out in the same way that Justin Tucker beat out Billy Cundiff 13 years ago, then that would have been a different story. We know that what this is about, but that said, and this is where I’ll agree with you, to put out a statement that makes no acknowledgement, no alluding whatsoever, to the NFL investigation or these accusations. You know, I think that’s, you know, that comes across as tone deaf at best.
Nestor Aparicio 28:12
They drafted Mike Green 10 days ago. That’s tone so, sure, sure. I don’t think they have to hear the tone. I guess it’s my point well, but I guess they make too much money. They make too much money. But my point
Luke Jones 28:27
is, if they didn’t care at all, like if there was no threshold whatsoever, he’d still be on the team, right? And that’s why you were doubting it, even as recently as when you and I talked earlier, the same day as we’re having this conversation now, you were still expressing doubt, and I was too. Let me until he wasn’t on the roster. He was on the roster. Joey was over
8Nestor Aparicio 28:48
it today, and we’re talking about it, but there’s going to be an NFL investigation. Is going to be a suspension, is going to be whatever somebody’s going to sign him. I mean, I’m convinced he’ll kick. I mean, I think, I
Luke Jones 28:57
think it depends. You know, what does the NFL put out, what is this suspension exactly? I mean, you look at Deshaun Watson. I mean, that was, what, nine games, whatever it was. I mean, these aren’t exactly the same, but they’re very similar in nature. Um, you know, here’s where I am.
Nestor Aparicio 29:14
They go to Indianapolis and interview these kids and poke and prod all these kids, and they bring them in and all that when they bring in a free agent, I would assume that Eric the Costa spoke with DeAndre Hopkins, at least for a little while, and said, hey, you know what? What do you see your role as being? Let’s talk about football. Let’s talk about Lamar. Let’s talk about the offense a little bit before we go giving you 4 million, 6 million, 8 million, whatever it is, there’s an entry and exit it getting to know you come into my office. So we’re going to have an interview with Justin Tucker, where the lions, the chiefs, the chargers, pick any team you want, chargers would already know Justin Tucker, but they already have a kicker. So call Justin Tucker. You bring him in. He comes in. It’s like hard knocks, right? Big office, a lot of light, right? Comes in, sits down on the little couch there. That’s because. It’s really what it’s like, right? I’ve sat in that office with Billick and John Harbaugh and you know, all the way down the line what those football offices look like. Say just to come in, hey, hey, good to see you. I hear you’re in good shape, kicking the ball. Well, I mean, we saw the tape. We saw what you did last week. We have an opportunity here. Um, so tell me about the allegations. Tell me about this. Let me read, let me read your statement. Reporters, scumbag, second rate journalists out to get me. Everybody’s out to get me you. Where do you stand on that? Right? You know, like, if there’s really interviews for jobs, that’s what you do. That’s what I would do as an employer. Is say, Now tell me, do you stand by that Instagram where you called the reporter sleaze bags? Or where are you going with this? Are you going with the misunderstanding? Thing? Are you going with the white still loves me? Thing? Are you going with the NFL investigated this, and they said this, this, this, and this. So like, that has to happen before he kicks for another team. I don’t, I don’t know where the bar is in Cincinnati or in Cleveland when they had an entry interview for Deshaun Watson, or even with the Ravens sitting with Mike Green and saying, well, not in the first round, but in the second round. Me, you know, I mean the value, but the section put why you got thrown out of Virginia? It mattered. It Thursday night, but Friday in the draft doesn’t matter. We can take it Friday not not that, you know, like that. That’s the part of this that blows my mind, that if Justin Tucker were to come into my office to sell my coffee, eat my fried chicken or kick for my football team, the first thing I would go to is the Instagram the moments after these allegations that clearly are false, because he couldn’t have done this right, but that the damning of the media and the damning someone else, while running away and to your point, belittling the 16 women that have been alleged, you’re only seven on that day, I think to myself, how does he get a job? But all these guys get jobs. Mike Green got a job. Mike, Mike Green had an agent that said, Yeah, you know, they do if they think you’re valuable too. But, I
Luke Jones 32:08
8mean, they do if they think you’re valuable, you know, I mean, well, you think
Nestor Aparicio 32:12
Justin Tucker could still kick? I think Justin Tucker could still kick, yeah, but a
Luke Jones 32:16
kicker is not the same thing as a franchise quarterback. We also understand that, right? The kickers. Kickers not the same thing as a 21 year old edge rusher who had a top 15 grade, who, other than Abdul Carter, might have been the best, best edge rusher in the draft. You know, Justin Tucker at 35 coming off of not great season. You know, even if he finished stronger well, and let me be clear, if he’s kicking this year, I’m not going to be shocked, but I would also say I’m not going to be remotely surprised if his career is over, but because he is 35 and he is coming off of a not so great year, in the same way that Ray Rice never played again, right? Even though he wasn’t. You know, it’s not like he was a 34 year old running back. Take
Nestor Aparicio 32:59
your 70 million go back to Texas and deal with your shame appropriately, the way Raphael Palmer, did you know what I mean? Like, there’s he’s got so much money, he’s got the rest of his life. He doesn’t have to kick anything. You have to do anything. He’s not going to jail. He’s just a creep. You know? He’s just the that. That’s the way he’ll be looked at until such point where the Ravens bring him back and make him the star of the game if he does his restitution or whatever. But I do think he’ll kick in the league. And even though I just made this harsh thing where he has to go sit in front of a general manager and look the other way and cough, if he can kick, kick the ball 68 yards into the wind, he’s going to have a job. And he’s always been able to do that. He’s always been able to do that well.
8Luke Jones 33:43
And that’s gonna, I mean, that’s gonna be the big key. I mean, is there a team that wants to take this on and is desperate enough, needing a kicker that badly, where they’re willing to take that on? You know, as far as for him, you know, it’s, obviously, there’s a, you know, I don’t know if statute of limitations is the proper terminology here, but it’s something that happened in the past. You know, all documented accusations. You know, reported accusations were from 12 to 16, so we’re talking about almost a decade ago for even the most recent one. And you know, the one part of the one part of the reporting that I think I’ve been a little more skeptical about was, you know, was he indeed truly banned at some of these places? And this goes even this has nothing to do with the massage therapists themselves, and what they accused him of has more to do with the owners, the management of the establishment. Whether was there actually a ban issued, or was this, Hey, you know, we’ve got to appease the the celebrity that’s, well, that’s the dirtiest part.
Nestor Aparicio 34:41
That’s the part I go back to privilege to be able to act lawlessly. That’s what.
Luke Jones 34:47
But that’s my that’s my part where, you know, if, if he’s advocating for himself in the scenario that you’re talking about with another general manager, he can obviously deny and say that these interactions, these, you know, this behavior. If you’re was miscategorized, misrepresented lot, you know, whatever he’s going to say, but the part, in terms of, you know, some of these places where he was allegedly banned, where that there’s been, yeah, I don’t want to say contradictions, but I think there’s been a little more question about that part, at least in my mind. And again, not not questioning the the therapist stories themselves more So was he, in fact, banned? Were these women told he was banned? But the owner actually gave more of a wink, wink type, I don’t know, right? That That, to me, was always the part where no one wants to offend the ravens, right? No one wants that. I just wasn’t sure. So Ken, does he, you know, does he have documentation, you know, via email, something like that, that calls that part of it into question. And if he does, then maybe he can convince an NFL owner to say, okay, they weren’t telling the truth about this part of the story. So doesn’t that cast more doubt as far as whether all this stuff actually happened? Again? How desperate is a team? How interested are they in and how much do they believe Justin Tucker can still, in fact, kick at a high level, knowing he is coming off the worst year of his career, to be clear, I’m not disagreeing with you from the standpoint of if he’s kicking for, I don’t know, the San Francisco 40 Niners in December because their kicker tore his ACL or popped his hamstring on a kickoff or Trying to make a tackle on a return for a touchdown or something like that, and they are in the playoff hunt, and he’s the best guy that’s out there, and they sit down and have a long talk with them, and you know, if he’s kicking for them, would I be shocked? No, but I also recognize that a kicker, even a great kicker, still only carries so much value. It’s why they’re not drafted in the first round, unless you’re crazy. Al Davis, way back when drafting Sebastian, yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 36:50
8they had no value, so you have to make a 48 yarder in the rain.
Luke Jones 36:57
Understood, but you’re taking on a lot of baggage, you know, in this case, you know that so, you know, and the Ravens deemed them, deemed it, even though they call it a football decision, they deemed it to be something that they didn’t want to they didn’t want to proceed anymore. They found their guy, and they moved on. And, you know, I kind of said to you all along, my gut on this when they didn’t cut him immediately, was that it would probably go to the draft, and, you know, they ended up finding a kicker they liked. We’ll see if Tyler loop ends up being the guy, you know. Keep in mind, they they had another kicker that they brought in, you know, even during, you know, as a tryout during camp, and it sounds like they’re going to sign him. So, you know, kind of speaks to, you know, it’s Wyoming kicker John Hoyland, so whether it’s him or someone else, going to compete with Tyler loop. And clearly they cared at least enough to say, we don’t want Justin Tucker to be the one that’s competing with him. So they moved on. They called it a football decision. We all you know, kind of look at that and say, really, but now
Nestor Aparicio 38:00
we await the NFL investigation. Luke, sure. I’ll say this. I’ll be
Luke Jones 38:05
interested to see when the timing of that is, you know, is it? Is it later this week? Is it more week? Or is it something where the Ravens got enough, you know, enough of a heads up that, you know, that the league said, Okay, we can’t tell you everything, but, you know, it’s everything is exactly what the banner was reporting and and all that where they said, you know, that we might not have this finished till next month, but I
8Nestor Aparicio 38:30
don’t expect the NFL to come out and re report what the banner report is. I don’t, I don’t know what the NFL is going to do now these cut. They don’t have to the NFL, and the Ravens have to do anything. Just move on. He’s not even in the league anymore. The NFL just evaporates.
Luke Jones 38:42
But typically, the NFL, the way this works is they still will issue a suspension. I mean, there are plenty. There are always free agent players, you know, whether it’s peds, you know, something with
Nestor Aparicio 38:51
it’s one sense though he, he, we have found that he acted in a broadly as a four game suspension, yeah, well, they have this well
Luke Jones 38:59
8done, you know, what is it plausible that, like a mike or a mark maske or someone you know, NFL reporter gets pieces of this leak to him or something? And I’m just using mark as an example, of course, you know, is that possible? Sure, but yeah, would I expect there to be some 50 page PDF document to be released. No, generally, that’s not how these things work. So he’s
Nestor Aparicio 39:27
just a kicker, right? Ex kicker now, ex kicker, former NFL kicker. Like
Luke Jones 39:35
I said, it’s, you know, a part of me is sad about just how this ends for someone who was very highly thought of by a lot of people in this town, and, you know, was a hell of a player. I mean, seven time pro bowler. I mean, a year ago at this time, you and I were talking about him being the greatest kicker in the history of the league and going to the Hall of Fame, and that’s all gone now. I mean, whether he kicks in the league again or not, he’s not going to the Hall of Fame with that. You know. I mean. And I mean, kickers are such a marginalized position in the NFL, you know, in terms of pro football hall of fame. I mean, it’s very short.
Nestor Aparicio 40:07
We never consider what they do off the field. That’s until they all say to me when I do, until they
8Luke Jones 40:12
do, right? I mean, so and again, that is not me saying that, feeling sorry for Justin. They
Nestor Aparicio 40:17
told me that the Terrell sucks, Frank bleach, all I that none of that would matter. So didn’t matter with Ray Lewis’s alligator, doesn’t it? You know, I they have, oh, well, it’s just sports. It’s, you know, we’ll talk more about it. Luke Johnson is gonna be covering the Orioles all week long out in Minnesota, and will be in Anaheim as well over the weekend, trying to get the pitching together, getting hitting. It’s been a weird couple months, right? Like I had Scott price on this week. Um, legendary journalist wrote for Sports Illustrated. SL price. Scott price has a new book out of lacrosse. And he said, You know, I got on a sports writing in the 80s because, like sports and balls and strikes and games and like all that. And it winds up, when you you’re a sports writer, it winds up A being about law and cheating and scandal and drugs and sex and violence and off the field and on the field and money and contracts and strikes and labor discord and legal and agents, and it’s, it’s like everything, but like X’s and O’s and Jimmy’s and Joe’s to some degree, especially this time of year, right? Because there are no x’s and o’s till September,
Luke Jones 41:22
yeah. I mean, for the NFL. But I also think it’s important not to lose complete joy for those things, because ultimately, at the end of the day, this is an entertainment driven business, and if we completely get lost, and this is kind of what I talked about with you at various times over the course of this saga. I mean, yeah, I think it was Mike tanure, you know, our good pal, who has opined on situations like this where, think he said, in a in a capitalistic society, you’re not going to be able to enjoy and consume anything if, if you’re going to be outraged by bad behavior, you know, to the point where you swear it off, you’re going to end up being very bored. That’s not to absolve it, but it’s messy, and that’s why I think it’s I think it’s important for you know, any individual person, I put my faith in much more important things. As much as I enjoy sports, love sports for what they are, I put my faith in much more important things you know, as far as you know my, you know my my Lord, and it’s certainly put more belief and faith in my family and things and entities like that, compared to, you know, individuals
Nestor Aparicio 42:32
8that just being the journalist, I don’t want to carry the water for sleaze. That’s all. I’m not getting the one doing that. And then that’s something for 35 years that I’ve sat here and I’m just, I’m, I’m not going to do the wink wink. It’s a football decision without calling a complete Bucha, because it is, and they and and it’s very I said this to a SIG last week, and it kind of broke his heart. I said, I’m so disappointed in what the Ravens have become and what the Orioles have become in my life and all that I’ve invested in it, and that is not to take the joy out of when they hit home runs or win games, or that they’re a good football team that plays into January and all that. It’s just it was all sold under a different spirit when I went on the radio and said we should pay for all of this and that these people are going to enrich our city and and really have some sense of of community and decency, you know, and I don’t, I think it’s way past that. And people went way past that for a long, long time, especially the baseball team and and the football team, we had to fight and steal to get one right, like so the Colts. I lived through all of that. So to think that there’s any honor amongst these thieves, there isn’t. But I did find dignity in the modells, and I did find dignity in Brian Billick, and I did find dignity in Joe Flacco and Rod Woodson, just people that I’ve met in the game. And being around the game, I see no dignity in the way John Harbaugh behaves. Eric the Costa, on a personal level, on a professional level, I’ve been privy to all of it. And then when these scandals happen, I know what compromised men of integrity they are. And for Harbaugh to stand in front of God, stand in front of Christ, and Fellowship of Christian Athletes as well as lent stolen Lexus and act like he is, that there’s some some piety involved in this, or some real integrity there’s not. And I know better. I know better. And every fan should know better when they see you in the press box and me not, and know that that’s the way they behave, and they like it that way. And Sashi brown having me banned from CEO made this crazy, petty, small, sleazy stuff that these franchises have been involved in for a long time. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s disappointing to me, because. I do want to cheer for them. I do want to pull for them. I do want to pull for the people involved in them, but they’ve made it very hard for me being on the inside and witnessing it. I knew a lot about Justin Tucker. I didn’t know he had sexual predator. I didn’t I didn’t check that card, but I didn’t find many of them to be likable blokes, and you know this, and over the last Super Bowl, and writing the second book, even in the reunions, and going back and saying, and this is, this is, honest to God, the five year reunion wasn’t a couple five years ago, or was it they haven’t had they had a 10 year a couple years ago. It was a 10 year a couple years ago. They had the reunion. And I went down the roster and thought, Who do I want to talk to, who do I want to be in touch with? Who do I want to call? Who do I want to say hi to? Who do I want to have on the show? And there really aren’t that many people, and that’s sad, because I love that team, and I wrote about that team and cheered for that team like but just in a general sense, the people that are involved aren’t of the caliber that they used to be. And I, I have fun with Sid thrift and I, you know, I Frank Robinson and dearly departed, and going back to Pat Gillick and Roland HeMan and all that on the baseball side, and all the people I’ve met in sports, the people I would talk about like Terry true acts on the basketball side or kick hockey. Doug McLean, Terry, Terry Murray, Brian Murray, Barry, trotz, people I’ve met in sports. This is not a very good group of people. I’ll just say that, and I’ll say that out loud, and I don’t say it every day. I don’t say it often. I think it a lot. I talked to my wife about it a lot, and I talked to you probably off the air about it a lot, but on a day when this went down with their decorated goat Hall of Fame kicker who sleazed The media eight weeks ago, when she’s the sleazy one. It’s just it’s gross. It’s just gross. And I said that there was SIG last week, and I’ll say it again now, it’s gross. It’s gross that they that they drafted Mike Green. Whether he’s a great kid, he could be whatever he wants to be, but it’s not a good look. If you care about looks, I’m
Luke Jones 47:04
not, not gonna argue with you. It’s disappointing and on a lot of levels, and it’s one thing
Nestor Aparicio 47:13
that bad pitching. It’s different when Kyle Gibson’s doing it, you know what I mean, than it is when Sidney ponson was doing it for me, for me, or if a role this Chapman was doing it, you know what I mean? So I can deal with the bad play on the field. I can deal with a lot of things. Like, no
Luke Jones 47:29
one wants the bad play on the field either. I mean, Let’s call a spade a spade. I mean, yeah, and I understand
8Nestor Aparicio 47:33
that that’s part of way more accepting of that part of the culture that
Luke Jones 47:37
just pro sports is, I mean, it’s, you know, we’re talking about, all of us are imperfect people, and some are more imperfect than others. You know, if that’s the best way that I can describe it, and a lot of what you a lot of what you say, I completely understand where you’re coming from. I agree in a lot of levels. And
Nestor Aparicio 47:58
also for this, hoping it had integrity,
Luke Jones 48:00
8but I would also, but I would also say this, don’t let it steal your joy for just the enjoyment of it. You love baseball. It wasn’t because of Peter Angelo, so just because your dad, of your dad, and your bond with him over that and so, Rick down told me, you know, so, so I think it’s important for all of us, you know, whether we’re talking about, you know, media guys who get to know the these individuals on some level that’s still superficial relative to being around them 12 hours a day, right? But you know, for for fans, for most people, this is an escape, and you know it shouldn’t be where you draw your your ethical inspiration, necessarily, or your moralistic inspiration doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold them to some semblance of standards. But at the same time, if you put your faith in man, generally, you’re going to end up disappointed. And I say that even just speaking from a faith my, you know, my personal faith standpoint, but at the same time, that doesn’t mean we can enjoy these things and take them for what they are. You love football, you love baseball, you love pro sports. You understand that pro sports is made up of a lot of very flawed people. And you know, you take it for what it is. It’s something that’s a diversion for a few hours a day or a few hours a week, and then you move on, and you get back to your we all get back to our lives, which have ups and downs and very real things that are way more important than someone kicking a ball or hitting a baseball or whatever it is. So you know that, I think you know and where you’re coming from, like, I guess you know my it’s not even an epiphany, but just as I get older, it’s just to kind of take it for what it is, not to make it more than what it actually is. You know, it’s entertainment. It’s something that’s a diversion for a few hours. We all really enjoy it. Anyone who’s listening right now wouldn’t be tuning into us if they didn’t have a passion for sports. But we also understand there are bigger things in sports, and by the way, one
Nestor Aparicio 49:59
thing I. Not willing to do is look the other way online, the other way look the other way assault allegations. I’m not gonna let the other way on that. I’m not gonna carry water for it, either, for Chad Steele, for John Harbaugh, for any of them, I’m not gonna do and
Luke Jones 50:14
that’s fine. And if people want to swear it off, and you know, you say you’re no longer a supporter of a team or a specific individual, then that’s perfectly within someone’s rights as well. I mean, it absolutely is. And to say, you know, we talked about in a previous discussion, I’m a big WWE fan to this day, even though Vince McMahon is no longer involved, but knowing full well what kind of individual he is, and you know, certainly not going to to that form of entertainment for any life lessons, or, you know, anyone that I’m going to view as a role model, but I enjoy the the escape that it provides. And you know that’s, that’s where we all kind of have to pick and choose. And, you know, music, sports, you know movies, politicians, I mean, like, take your pick, as far as entities that absolutely, you know, if you look long enough, you watch it long enough, you pay attention to it long enough, yeah, you’re going to be disappointed plenty, probably way more disappointed than you’re going to be gratified. As I’ve kind of said, you know, the the idea of, if you’re a sports fan, because of the championships, and that’s the only enjoyment you get from it, man. You think about the ratio of disappointment to No wonder these brownies
Nestor Aparicio 51:28
fans are so pissed off. Yeah? So, so,
8Luke Jones 51:31
you know, I mean, on some level, you just kind of view it and take it for what it is. And you know, if that sounds like I’m giving them a pass, I don’t mean it to, but at the same time, I you’re going to watch him. You’re going to watch, go watch and play. Yeah, and I wasn’t doing this for a living. I’d, I’d still, I’d still watch it. And,
Nestor Aparicio 51:47
well, glad you’re doing it for a living, because we’re holding accountable around here. And you know, that’s that. So Luke can be found Baltimore. Luke. He’s Luke at W nst.net, and I am Nestor Baltimore positive com. You can find us anytime, anywhere we’re at on the internet. I guess we’re not done talking about this, but at least it feels like there’s some level of finality, at least from a roster standpoint. We are W, N, S, D, A, 1570, Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop droning on and on and on about jurisprudence and important things. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.
