It was a night for a big victory โ and a major loss. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss Lamar Jackson and offensive performance against Cincinnati and how the team will adjust moving forward without All Pro tight tight end Mark Andrews.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
running, play, lamar jackson, ravens, game, lamar, thursday night, bengals, week, mark andrews, talked, year, ronnie stanley, football, feel, stadium, offensive line, baltimore, jake browning, defense
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome back wn S T, Towson Baltimore. And Baltimore positive.com. Happy weekend to everybody out there celebrating a weekend maybe on the couch watching the browns in the and the Steelers play football as well as some other teams out there. Of course the Ravens victorious on Thursday night weโre going to take the Maryland crabcake tour on the road. All month long. Happy Thanksgiving everybody out there hope you have safe travels over the river and through the woods and eat some figgy pudding and do all that stuff. Tuesday. Weโre going to kick it off at Pappus in Parkville first ever crabcake tour stop there weโve been to the other Pappas locations looking forward to that. So I brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery I have Raven scratch off to give away at least this week. Weโre gonna have some sent it tickets. As we get into the following week. Weโre gonna be Cocoโs on the 29th and Laura Ville we are going to be at the BMA and the Walters or excuse me, the PMA not the Walters at gertrudes on the 30th with Dan Rogers, also on the first of December, that is a Friday weโre gonna be up at Hollywood casino in Perry Ville, the the Terps play Indiana on that Friday. I got a great guest and Tom Cal so we are trying to educate folks about the Maryland stadium authorities role, why John Angelos would want to get rid of it, where all of your money is going and Tom Kelsey is going to be joining us again, this week before Thanksgiving to sort of whet the appetite for a full stadium for Dummies series that weโre gonna be doing on December the first itโs also brought to you by our friends at Windsor nation 866 90 nation you buy till you get to free 0% financing for five years through the holidays. And last but never least Jiffy Lube, multi care taking care of my vehicle getting us the most oil in the car over and Dundalk and we were in Dundalk last week at Costas, we were at fade these weโre going to be back and fate leads later on in late December. Weโre going to be at state fair on December the fifth just booked some guests for that as well. And weโre going to be at the foreign daughter in Timonium importing a crab cake of course, I have my macarius shirt on. Iโm going to get the purple one here soon. I also have Iโm a blunt person shirt, which Iโll wear that for Luke because he knows Iโm a blunt person. Luke, we gave a lot of oxygen to mark Andrews and weโre going to do that next week. And weโll do that by week when they donโt even play weโre gonna be talking about how theyโre going to eventually win without him. Seeing Lamarck MP seeing Lamar go into the tent. That was a different level of what happens to the season. Think heโs okay, he came back out perform pretty well. I mean, in general lost in this, Mark Andrews and Burro didnโt play and they played a pretty good game on Thursday night for four days rest and didnโt turn the ball over wasnโt sloppy. Game was in hand felt in hand, especially with the backup quarter. They didnโt let the backup quarterback come out and scare them. You know. So all that being said, you know, by marks on beating the division opponent at home by two touchdowns on short rest.
Luke Jones 02:50
Yeah, I mean, and again, it is what it is no Joe burrow. But as I pointed out in our previous conversation, no, Lamar Jackson at the end of each of the last two years and the Bengals are above puffing out their chest about that. So you donโt feel sorry for that. From an entertainment standpoint, itโs a little itโs a bummer because the ravens and Bengals have this rivalry going over the last few years and how few times weโve actually seen Lamar and burrow both be fully healthy. So so thatโs a bummer. But yeah, the performance by the Ravens on Thursday night and we spent so much time talking about Mark Andrews, we spent time talking about the tight ends, we talked about the wide receivers we even talked about the offensive line. A big part of that equation if the ravens are going to truly be okay and fine and still able to thrive and make a deep January run and have a chance to win a Super Bowl. Itโs going to begin with number eight and him elevating his play with Mark Andrews not being out there because weโve talked about it and this isnโt a knock. Every quarterback has that security blanket every quarterback Travis Kelce. Is that for Patrick mahomes. So Lamar Jackson is going to have to elevate his play and do things a little bit differently than heโs accustomed to doing. And Thursday night was a really encouraging step, understanding that new reality for the Ravens for the remainder of the year because look at that first half, you lose Andrews, Iโll be it at the end of that opening drive. But the opening drive heโs done for the night, daily ran the ball for 30 yards. I mean, in Lamar had 20 of those in the first half. So the running game was a non factor. And yet you look at what he did 1219 for 186 yards and two touchdowns in that opening half and doing what they did scoring two touchdowns late in that first half. I mean, that was great to see, you know, that was a really strong performance. Fully acknowledging Lamar was less than 100%. I mean, we saw him limping around at different times throughout the game a couple times. I was kind of questioning why they were having him run the ball. Oh, the play immediately following him markedly noticeably limping, so I
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:53
donโt want anybody pulling his ankle and then after that he got hurt, right?
Luke Jones 04:56
Of course not. I mean, again and you You called me the Debbie Downer talking about Mark Andrews. If you lose Lamar Jackson, itโs over. I mean, itโs just over. Right. So, but it was really encouraging to seeing him play the way that he did. And utilizing his wide receivers the way that he did. I mean, thatโs weโre gonna have to see more of that now because youโre not going to have Mark Andrews in that equation. And you can only expect so much from Isaiah likely and Charlie Kohler. So itโs going to be an ensemble effort, itโs going to be a collective effort for everyone to raise their play. But you have number eight out there and upright and even though he wasnโt fully healthy, he was healthy enough to keep playing and he played at a high level and, you know, the Ravens coming out of it, you know, certainly take advantage of some rest for Jackson, you know, to get that ankle right. And weโll see what the injury report looks like next week, but he was very good. And, you know, the Bengals are dealing with it. Now. Who knows whatโs going to happen with Joe burrow, browns are dealing with it with Deshaun Watson but I mean, the Ravens weโve, weโve said it over and over, no matter whether weโve talked about Ronnie Stanley or injuries on the defense back in 2021, or JK Dobbins now Mark Andrews, you have Lamar Jackson out there and upright, youโve got a shot, and youโve got you feel really good about your chances when heโs out there and healthy. And again, he did a really good job operating the passing game, without Mark Andrews and without the running game really being much of a compliment to them until the second half when they built that lead. So for them to be able to do what they did offensively, given those circumstances, because the Bengals did bottle up their running game early on. Now that was really encouraging to see that. And again, weโre gonna have to see more of that now, as we move forward and get into closer and closer to December and then eventually, January,
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:46
where are you on the running game? And I would say, to say thereโs a consistent running game, we go back to 2019. Weโll always talk about Mark Ingram and Tao historical that was, I donโt know week to week that I know they have a running game that doesnโt include Lamar Jackson. And I certainly would think that would even put more pressure on the running game with Mark Andrews being out now more pressure in that there has to be more productive and more pressure, itโs going to be harder to be more productive. Well, letโs,
Luke Jones 07:15
first of all, letโs understand what weโre still talking about this in relative terms. They entered Thursday nightโs game with the number one rushing offense in the NFL, you know, so Iโll say this. And I think this is the point you were trying to make. Do I think this running game is the dynamic rushing attack that we saw a few years ago that was historically dominant? No, I donโt think itโs that. But I do think the elements with Yes, Lamar Jackson still being a part of that, because shame on you if youโre not going to have Lamar Jackson run, because that is what truly makes him so transcendent, and that ability to do that. But you have Gus Edwards, scoring touchdowns, you know, not necessarily, you know, heโs not rushing for 100 yards every week, but has remained productive. And keep Mitchell who know early on the Bengals did a nice job bottling him up. But we saw him especially as they got into the second half. And, you know, being able to get a little more run with the lead. We saw him do some nice things. And that was good experience for him. You know, weโve talked a lot about the usage. And you know, I even asked Harbaugh about it on Monday after after the loss to the Browns where I think Mitchell was on the field for only four snaps in the second half. And part of this is heโs a young kid, heโs undrafted missed time earlier in the season has been dealing with the hamstring. Theyโre trying to balance wanting to get him more involved, but also wanting to make sure heโs ready to be more involved. Heโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:43
not Emmitt Smith. Yeah.
Luke Jones 08:46
Yeah, well, look, the ability I mean, that, you know, the speed is unbelievable. You know, the tools are really exciting. Thereโs no doubt about that. We saw that, you know, a couple weeks ago, you know, right off the bat. I mean, what he can do when he gets the ball in his hands in space. But yeah, thereโs other parts to the game that heโs still learning. So, you know, I fully expect to see him more involved, I think youโre gonna see as time goes on less and less Justice Hill, and I think youโre gonna see more and more Keaton Mitchell paired with Gus Edwards, in terms of, you know, what, I think will morph into more of a two headed monster in the backfield rather than, you know, the three headed monster that weโve seen. So you know, and that kind of that kind of played out, you know, Mitchell got eight carries just to sail on the one. Oh, Gus, Gus Edwards had 12 carries. So I think a lot of itโs going to depend on the matchup how teams are trying to play them from a run defense standpoint. But, you know, I, thereโs no doubt that the running game is going to be very important. It was always going to be itโs always been. But now when you are going to have a little more question as far as how your passing game is going to need to evolve. Itโs going to be even more important for the running game to be consistently robust. And weโve seen it be more robust and more consistent here and recently in recent weeks, you know, Even first half on Thursday night aside, but theyโre going to need more and more of that because yeah, itโs gonna get colder, harsher elements. Everyoneโs banged up, you know, guys, weโre gonna be banged up week in and week out, you know where are you with the health of your wide receivers? Where are you with Lamar Jacksonโs health on any given week, you know, as we saw Thursday night, so theyโre going to need more of that. And, you know, I think Iโm confident that the running game is going to play at a high level. But you know, to go back to your original question, now, itโs not the 2019 or 2020 running game. But the hope is, it doesnโt have to be that because you are better at wide receiver, you do have a more experienced Lamar Jackson from the pocket and doing more things from the pocket than he did three or four years ago. So you know that thatโs all part of the equation here. And weโre gonna see how this all plays out. But again, given the circumstances that they faced on Thursday night, in that first half, I was very pleased to see how their passing game and how their offense in general was able to operate, even with their running game not firing on all cylinders early on.
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:03
Well, we talked about how turnovers have destroyed them or upended their chances. I mean, all of these comebacks or pretend and freak outs but but turnover specifically, you know, they played a pretty I said this and less of it. I donโt think they played a pretty good Thursday night game against a division opponent. They havenโt played perfect football this year. Lord knows they blew out Detroit blew out Seattle, but just for a steady victory, where when the backup quarterback came in, you said weโre not going to lose that guy. And the game felt in hand to me. And you know what I mean? Like, they havenโt had a lot of those. I donโt say it was a snoozer asleep, or they pulled them off the field like 37 to three, but it felt more like the garden variety kind of victory you want to have in the middle of a season, especially when you lose your tight end. And you might lose your quarterback spin in the chant already. Iโm not a sky is falling with the rest here, the Andrews thing I mean, youโll continue to reiterate the sincere Yeah, the seriousness of how theyโre going to replace him. But I feel good about how they played on Thursday night after the cleaning. And now like what we canโt do 11 Now, right, we donโt have a buy, but it feels like that we will play on Sunday, thereโs gonna be a real buy two weeks from now. So theyโre to your point and play one game at 24 days crazy. But the feeling that theyโre rounding into something that the passing game is coming together, that theyโre kicking the ball around less that the defense is a real thing. The defense is something other teams going to have to contend with every single week, because the defense is going to travel as long as row Kwanzaa we mentioned who would be the next guy to go down that would be awful. Itโd be row Quan Smith, but they, they want a big boy game on short rest, when something really went wrong early and they didnโt stab themselves in the foot. You know, they didnโt kick the ball around. They didnโt throw the ball around. They didnโt have special teams problems. It was a very, very pedestrian win from that standpoint and never gotten nervous.
Luke Jones 13:08
Yeah, and and, and weโd be disingenuous, if we didnโt acknowledge it certainly helps. And Joe burrow goes out late in the first half. I mean, thatโs, you know, who knows how that game is gonna play out in the second half if heโs out there, but thatโs what happened. So I agree with you. They played clean football, I think the second half while you look at the output output, and itโs like, okay, they scored 13 points. I mean, that was fine. You know, when youโre in a position where you lead by 11 at halftime, and you know that a backup quarterback and by the way, let me give a itโs subtle, because Iโm not saying the guy lit the world on fire. Jake Browning did a nice job considering that guy had played for career snaps in the NFL. One Pass hit never played any meaningful football in the NFL. He was on a practice squad for three years before becoming Cincinnatiโs backup this year. But the point was, heโs not Joe burrow. They already were without T Higgins, that was a very limited Cincinnati Bengals offense the rest of the way. And the Ravens played accordingly. play smart, do not do things to self destruct do not do things to hand them opportunities on short fields, whether itโs turnovers, whether itโs a special teams gaff anything like that they played clean football, and thatโs what you want to see. Again, you know, Cincinnati loses Joe burrow in the same way that Lamar Jackson wasnโt playing the last couple years. Yeah, you should win just like the Bengals should have. You know, you expected them to win the end of the last couple years without Lamar on the field. So but but that fully acknowledging that they played clean football and they didnโt turn it over, you know, we can talk about penalties. I mean, theyโre really questioning you know, the Beckham holding call was questionable. The the defensive pass interference that they called, was a flowers. That was a terrible Amin guy didnโt do anything. I mean, that was I felt like a makeup call. For
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:00
that, drive alive to that short game,
Luke Jones 15:04
so there was some of that. I mean, there was no doubt about that there was some of that. But you know, by and large, I mean, I agree with you. And, again, for me, the defense did exactly what they should do if Joe burrow exits, right. I mean, my goodness, if Jake Browning beat them, shame on them, because most people in that stadium never heard the guy before Thursday night. So you expect the defense to do what they did, given those circumstances. But the offense again, really impressed with how they played in the first half, you know, going up against a desperate Bengals team. You know, Trey Hendrickson made some plays early in that game, but, you know, they were able to get some of those things cleaned up. You know, Lamar, obviously took the hit on the sideline, you know, you know, the pass protection wasnโt perfect, but he wasnโt under extreme duress all night. You know, he was sacked what three times for 16 yards last. But, you know, they just they played clean, winning football overall, and on a Thursday night, given the challenges there for both teams. But given the challenges, and just seeing what Thursday night football looks like on a week in and week out basis, you know, I think you have to be pleased, other than the injury, of course, to Andrews and, you know, other guys back home and Lamar being banged up in that game, but I think just the way they performed, you have to be really pleased. And now you feel really good about yourself would have felt better. If you didnโt lose Mark and his boy, theyโd be on top of the world, itโs like that Cleveland game would have been forgotten. Thatโs why I said if they won this game, Thursday night, theyโre fine. So theyโre in great shape, theyโre eight and three, one game in the next 24 days, get a chance to rest up, Todd Monken in the coaching staff go to work on how theyโre going to reshape and evolve this passing game, knowing that youโre not going to have one of the best tight ends and football the rest of the year, you know that. So a lot going for them. And by the way, they need to take advantage of that time. Because you know, the chargers, thatโs not going to be an easy trip out to the West Coast, but post by alright, Iโll buy the, you know, the Rams donโt scare you certainly. And after they looked better earlier in the season, and it looked very good for a while now. But after that, at Jacksonville at San Francisco home against Miami home against the Steelers week. 18. I mean, those last four games, I mean, not necessarily the division on the line necessarily. But if you want to try to beat that number one seed boy, thereโs, theyโre gonna have to do some some work there because I donโt think Kansas Cityโs dropping too many games between now and the end of the season. So theyโre gonna have to keep winning. But thatโs why this next three and a half week stretch here are 24 days, whatever weโre calling it, that itโs, you know, this is a golden opportunity for them to get right. And again, reshape what theyโre going to look like with their passing game moving forward. So thereโs a lot to feel really good about even if Yeah, the mark Andrews injury action absolutely stinks. Well, thatโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:55
what I was gonna say the the feel good about it part. You know, I donโt wanna be to Baltimore positive here during Thanksgiving week. But the amount of time they have off the where they are that the concerns I have are the running game, the running game, the running game, I brought that up in the beginning with how does losing Andrews affect their running game? Because itโs all part of that, you know, what are they going to do on third and four? How much is Lamar gonna have to run to your point seeing his ankles get poked at? Because thatโs what this offense. Thatโs what Lamar has done. When things get desperate Lamar runs, like when they get behind by 10 points in the fourth quarter Lamar runs, thatโs what they do. They need to make sure that theyโre not there the last run in the fourth quarter when theyโve been at which I donโt understand at all. So and the running game, and the passing game, being really predicated on how exceptional the offensive line can be. And we always say 2019 I guess, you know, like a broken record on that. But the offensive line was exceptional. I saw Orlando brown after running around on the other team the other night, Marshall yonder is going to the hall a really good one, you know, the Ronnie Stanleyโs in the years old as he heard, I mean, this is a different operation. And itโs certainly a different operation without Moses and without Stanley. Despite whatever diminished version of Ronnie Stanley you think we have? Patrick McHenry is your starting left tackle the rest of the way? Oh, no, dog.
Luke Jones 19:18
Yeah, Iโm not. Look, Iโm not saying Patrick McCann. Iโve never suggested Patrick Patrick mCherry is as good as Ronnie Stanley. Heโs not you know, Iโm my point has been Ronnie Stanley is not the 2019 pre injury version of Ronnie Stanley, which has its own problem. Yeah, it is. And to be clear, when I say that, that doesnโt mean I think itโs the worst tackle on football either. I mean, thereโs a thereโs a wide range of outcomes there. And, you know, clearly, you know, this is the same knee he heard back in week one, he missed three games, then, you know, weโll see how much time heโs missing. Here. I would expect and this is purely my speculation. I would expect we probably donโt see Stanley against the Chargers because, you know, one game the next 24 Weโre days, give Ronnie Stanley 24 days to get that knee as healthy as it can be then for the final five games of the season and you hope beyond, you know, certainly will be beyond that, but you hope not a long run after that. So, but But yeah, you look at this offensive line which by the way, you look at pro football focus, you look at other analytic sites that that kind of measure offensive line play which is subjective, right. And we donโt know every playerโs assignment on every play. So thereโs, thereโs educated guesswork that goes into it. But yeah, this this off line is highly regarded, even with Stanley not being at the same all pro Pro Bowl level that he was prior to the ankle injury. But youโre right, you look at 2019 and better version of Ronnie Stanley then Bradley Bozeman compared to John Simpson at left guard, you know, I donโt have strong feelings there. I mean, Bradley Bozeman was solid to good. You know, John Simpson at times has been good, although certainly wasnโt. You know, it was a couple of penalties on Thursday night wasnโt great. Linda bombs better than that? skoura thereโs no question about that for me. Marshall. Jana is better than Kevin Zeitler. But Kevin Zeitler is really good. And at right tackle, I mean, Orlando brown compared to Morgan, Moses, you know, I Iโd side, Orlando Brown as a right tackle. But you know, we talked about it Moses played with the shoulder, you know, you could see heโs wearing a harness, even though we had the black sleeves on, you could see heโs wearing a harness. So howโs that going to fare for him the rest of the year? When it when Ronnie Stanley does return? Whatโs he going to look like? Does the knee hold up? Howโs the ankle, you know, in the big picture sense. So itโs gonna be important for this offensive line. But when this offensive line has played at a high level this year, and it has for many games, thatโs generally been when the offense has been at its best and gives Lamar Jackson time to operate from the pocket gives the running backs up space to work in the running game. And you see a much more complete operation. So all of this is going to have to continue to work in concert. Again, hats off to them, you know, the offense with the challenges they faced early in that game for them doing what they did, and they played winning clean football, and they had a two score lead going into fourth into the fourth quarter. And you know, they ended up scoring a touchdown and increasing that lead and you know, making that Garbage Time touchdown at the end of at the end of the game to Jamar Chase. You know, defense wasnโt happy about that just because statistically it makes the their performance look lesser. But it was garbage time and no big deal. And again, ravens come out of this game and eight and three first place in the AFC north, kind of sort of burying the Bengals at least from a division standpoint. And theyโll now have this chance to get right physically and kind of recalibrate here and really get geared up for the final stretch run which Hey, theyโre gonna have a whole lot to play for. We
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:57
are going to be playing for crabcakes here through Thanksgiving holiday. Weโre gonna be at Pappas in Parkville. The original Pappas on Tuesday from two of the five got some great guests lined up, clear them up out Christian Oregon. Iโm already behind the eight ball for this weekโs picks. I mean, my picks are just slipping here in the middle as I was pretty cocky about week seven week eight last couple of weeks. Iโm gonna shine. Itโs all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. Weโre going to be giving these away at Pappus on Tuesday. Weโre going to be Cocoโs on the 29th. Weโre going to be at the BMA and gertrudes on the 30 heating a legendary crabcake which Iโve never had. So weโre gonna have John shields and Dan Rodricks on on Friday, December 1, weโre gonna be up at Hollywood casino in Berryville with Christian orc making some pics Tom Kelso former Maryland stadium authority chairman is going to do stadium for Dummies with us on December the first we do not have a lease. I donโt know that they euros can even sell tickets because they donโt have a lease for the stadium next year. So Iโve talked to people about this. You know, while the Ravens arenโt playing a whole lot itโs time to focus on the orals little bit so Luke will be doing Rookie of the Year manager the year Coach of the Year reporter of the year castigated journalist of the year we got all the awards coming out here next week for Thanksgiving. Lukeโs easy to find he is at Baltimore, Luke, Iโd say heโs on the backfields and Owings Mills. But what do you give him the weekend off to mow the lawn and make some some pumpkin something and get a turkey for Thanksgiving and do all that ravens playing just one game over the next couple of weeks? Theyโre out in LA next week for Thanksgiving weekend on Sunday night. So be a little more quiet around here looking I may take a little so we might even talk some baseball around here before itโs all over with. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson, Baltimore. Stay with us and have a great weekend. Happy Thanksgiving. Weโre Baltimore positive