Sheinin the light on a new baseball season and the strike zone

Our pal Dave Sheinin covered the whole wide world of sports for The Washington Post for three decades and made his first post-exit interview with Nestor a classic, discussing his best journeys to Jamaica and China with Usain Bolt and a life spent near the pool of Michael Phelps. And then there were all of the World Series games and baseball insider tales.

Nestor Aparicio and Dave Sheinin discuss Sheinin’s departure from The Washington Post, his experiences covering the Olympics, and his thoughts on the new baseball rules, particularly the Automated Ball-Strike (ABS) system. Sheinin shares a memorable story about covering Usain Bolt in Beijing and reflects on the impact of rule changes on baseball. They also discuss the Orioles’ current state, expressing cautious optimism about the team’s potential. Sheinin emphasizes the need for the Orioles’ ownership to make bold moves to compete, especially with the upcoming trade deadline. They conclude with a discussion on the potential for a salary cap in MLB.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Coordinate with Dave Sheinin to attend an upcoming Baltimore Orioles game together once they both have availability.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Host the Maryland crab cake tour event at Faidley’s in Lexington Market next Friday, including having Stephen L Miles join as a guest.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Bring the ‘Maryland treasures’ items to the Maryland crab cake tour at Faidley’s next Friday.

Dave Sheinin’s Departure from The Washington Post

• Nestor Aparicio welcomes Dave Sheinin back to discuss sports journalism, Orioles, and new baseball rules.
• Nestor mentions the Maryland crab cake tour and thanks Zach Dermer for helping with the show.
• Dave Sheinin shares his feelings about leaving The Washington Post after 30 years, describing it as a gut punch and a mourning process.
• Dave admits he didn’t watch the Olympics on TV, preferring to use the money from his canceled trip to Milan to visit his daughter in New Orleans.

Memorable Olympic Moments

• Nestor asks Dave about his favorite Olympic moments, mentioning his own experiences with Michael Johnson and other memorable events.
• Dave recounts covering Usain Bolt in 2008, describing it as the most incredible moment he’s ever witnessed in sports.
• Dave shares a story about visiting Usain Bolt’s family in Jamaica, including a harrowing experience with sugar cane harvesting.
• Nestor and Dave discuss the unique aspects of covering track and field events, especially the excitement of the Olympics.

Baseball Rule Changes and Umpires

• Nestor and Dave discuss the new baseball rule changes, particularly the Automated Ball-Strike system (ABS).
• Dave explains the challenges and benefits of the ABS system, noting that it adds strategic value to the game.
• Nestor shares his skepticism about the rule changes, comparing them to the introduction of the designated hitter.
• Dave talks about the evolving role of umpires and the impact of technology on their job, including the use of replay challenges.

The Role of Umpires in Modern Baseball

• Nestor and Dave discuss the changing dynamics between umpires and players, noting the increased involvement of umpires in the game.
• Dave explains how younger umpires have been trained to handle new rule changes and technologies like ABS.
• Nestor shares a personal anecdote about interacting with a major league umpire on a shuttle in Cleveland.
• Dave highlights the importance of umpires in maintaining the integrity and drama of the game, despite the introduction of new technologies.

The Future of Baseball and the Orioles

• Nestor and Dave discuss the current state of the Orioles and the recent moves made by the team, including the signing of Pete Alonso.
• Dave expresses cautious optimism about the Orioles’ chances, noting the importance of maintaining a deep pitching rotation.
• Nestor shares his excitement about the team’s potential and the need for the ownership group to make bold moves to compete.
• Dave emphasizes the importance of the upcoming trade deadline and the need for the team to be in contention by July.

The Impact of Ownership on Team Performance

• Nestor and Dave discuss the role of ownership in the success of the Orioles, noting the changes since Peter Angelos’ tenure.
• Dave highlights the need for the ownership group to be proactive in making significant moves to improve the team’s performance.
• Nestor shares his skepticism about the current ownership group’s ability to make the necessary changes.
• Dave emphasizes the importance of having a competitive payroll and the challenges faced by small-market teams.

The Potential for a Salary Cap in Baseball

• Nestor and Dave discuss the ongoing negotiations between Major League Baseball and the Players Association regarding a salary cap.
• Dave explains the potential benefits and drawbacks of a salary cap, noting the need for a salary floor to ensure competitive balance.
• Nestor shares his concerns about the impact of a salary cap on smaller market teams and the potential for a work stoppage.
• Dave highlights the importance of finding a solution that balances the needs of both the owners and the players.

The Legacy of Sid Finch and April Fool’s Day

• Nestor shares his April Fool’s Day prank involving a fictional Orioles pitcher named Happy April’s Full, inspired by the Sid Finch story.
• Dave praises the creativity of the prank and its nostalgic connection to the original Sid Finch story.
• Nestor explains the thought process behind the prank and its goal to generate interest and engagement.
• Dave and Nestor discuss the impact of the prank and its success in capturing the attention of listeners.

The Importance of Nostalgia in Sports Journalism

• Dave reflects on the lasting impact of the Sid Finch story and its role in shaping his love for sports journalism.
• Nestor shares his own experiences with April Fool’s Day pranks and the importance of maintaining a sense of humor in sports coverage.
• Dave emphasizes the value of nostalgia in connecting with readers and fans, especially in the context of baseball.
• Nestor and Dave discuss the challenges and rewards of covering sports, including the need to stay relevant and engaging.

The Future of Sports Journalism and Baseball

• Nestor and Dave discuss the future of sports journalism and the evolving landscape of baseball coverage.
• Dave highlights the importance of adapting to new technologies and rule changes in order to stay relevant.
• Nestor shares his thoughts on the need for sports journalists to maintain their independence and integrity.
• Dave and Nestor express their mutual appreciation for the game of baseball and the joy of covering it.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles, baseball rules, Dave Sheinin, Washington Post, Olympics, Usain Bolt, ABS system, umpires, salary cap, Pete Alonso, pitching injuries, Rubenstein, Baltimore, sports journalism, crab cakes.

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SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Dave Sheinin

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive. Positively into April. All of my April Fools, hi Jinks and pranks are yesterday’s news and maybe tomorrow’s headlines. We’re gonna be doing the Maryland crab cake tour next Friday at faidley’s at Lexington market. I did invite John Miller because the gigantes are in town, but apparently he’s got his own big homecoming. But Stephen l Miles is going to be joining me next week. I will have the Maryland treasures. I don’t have them in my I don’t have them handy, as they say, Mr. Cotter, but I’ll have next week. We’ll have them next Friday. All of it brought to you by friends at GBMC and the comfort guys that saved my wife’s life on Wednesday as we were flooding from a pipe burst. They do HVAC, AC and they do plumbing. They are the comfort guys of charnon and dermo. So big. Thanks to Zach Dermer for taking my 6am Southern Water help me so we have people that help us. This guy, I you know, I’ve given us a little bit of breathing space. I was gonna invite him down to Fave these for crab cake. Probably should have, but I didn’t want to visit because the ABS thing happened this week. And no one knows more about baseball than longtime baseball writer, my friend butchers Hill resident, Patterson Park Walker and pagoda nearer he is formally of The Washington Post, which was one of the great sports sections newspapers, democracy dies in darkness, Woodward and Bernstein, all of that good stuff. And the late great John Feinstein, we welcome Dave shining back on who has been relieved there’s responsibilities of going to Milan. Was it weird for you watching the Olympics on TV? Let’s just start with that, because, like, I think of you in the Olympics at baseball, and I thought of booking you on this week because the ABS thing, and I’m like, I owe shine and a beer. I hope he’s okay. I know you’re in that sort of uncomfortable place between gigs when you had a gig for like, 40 years. But how are you? I was worried about you, and I love you, and I wanted to, I owe you free crab cakes when we get a chance. But I thought this ABS thing, we got to talk about this man, yeah, yeah.

Dave Sheinin  02:08

I mean, I’m fine, you know? I mean, it was a, it was a blow. It was a, it was a gut punch. You know, it took me some time. I’m still not completely over it. I mean, I loved the Washington Post. I love the institution, probably too much, and it and so it really, really hurt. You know, when they killed the sports department, it was shock, it was, you know, it was disgust, it was fury, it was sadness, it was mourning.

Nestor Aparicio  02:39

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And that was just Sally’s column.

Dave Sheinin  02:42

I was there 30 years, you know, and I thought I was going to retire there. I loved working there. I loved my colleagues. So, yeah, it sucked, and you asked about Milan. I didn’t watch a minute of it until the very last day, when I started getting the alerts on my ESPN app that the men’s hockey game, the gold medal game, was going to the third period tied. I’m like, oh, okay, well, that’s, that’s pretty cool. And then I got one that said it’s going to overtime, three on three overtime. And I finally tuned in for like, one minute of the gold medal hockey game, until it when it ended. I’m like, Okay, that’s all I watched. Of the I couldn’t bring myself to watch the Olympics. I was supposed to be there. It hurt too much to watch. I did use the money from my plane ticket to Milan that they canceled to fly to New Orleans and see my daughter, who’s a freshman at Tulane. So I use that money, you know, to pay for my own little side trip. You know, I made the best of it, but I couldn’t watch the Olympics when I was supposed to be

Nestor Aparicio  03:48

there covering it. How many Olympics you do? Doesn’t 14 like that?

Dave Sheinin  03:52

No, probably, I think eight.

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Nestor Aparicio  03:55

What? So I asked Eisenberg this, because he’s covered so many incredible things, so many years ago, back when the sun had a budget to send him the World Cups and see Maradona play and stuff like that. What’s the like, the number one Olympic moment that you attended like you clearly weren’t at like placid in 80 but you know, I, oh, a friend of mine went to Atlanta and saw the gold shoes of Michael Johnson. And still said, like, my it’s a friend, not a sports writer, but like said, My God, of all he this, my friend’s been at 20 Super Bowls and, like a lot of cool things, still says that was like the thing where the hair on the back of the neck for him, but I don’t know what you bet you’ve been at some really weird stuff, on mountains and on slopes in all sorts of ways, Right? Yeah.

Dave Sheinin  04:38

No, no. Number one. Without a doubt, it was Usain Bolt in 2008 in Beijing, when he won, when he sent world records in the 100 and the 200 and then, you know, anchored the relay. And it was just, he’s one of the most beautiful athletes I’ve ever watched, you know, and and to see him at the height of his powers, and just. Completely reinventing that sport. And he was such a star, so he had such presence, and so telegenic and everything. I mean, that guy, that was one of the greatest things I’ve ever covered in anything Olympics or anything else.

Nestor Aparicio  05:17

So the what is it? I’ve never been in a place watching men or women run around a track. I mean, I literally, it’s not that I it only really happens at the Olympics in that sort of way. You watch it on TV or whatever, and the batons and different things with running, it’s fascinating that you would of all the memories you would have, because you saw Phelps in the pool a billion times, right?

Dave Sheinin  05:38

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Yeah, yeah. Phelps, Ledecky. I mean, you know those stuff, that stuff was all phenomenal. I mean, I remember, I was there for the for the break dancing fiasco in Paris in 24 you know, where Australian girls, the woman from Australia, Ray Gun, you know? I mean, so, I mean, there I’ve covered some really cool, fun stories and fun moments, but in terms of, like, just blow you out of your seat, kind of, you know, wow factor, Usain Bolt in, oh, eight. And, I mean, there’s something about

Nestor Aparicio  06:13

Carrie STRUG, right? Maybe, No,

Dave Sheinin  06:15

I’ve never done any gymnastics. You know, we have kind of, like, specialists who always did that. Yeah, no, I never did any gymnastics, but yeah, and I rarely did any track, either. I was always the swimming guy. But for some reason, you know, things got shuffled around a little bit in Beijing, and I had done the big Usain Bolt profile in Jamaica earlier that summer and stuff. So, so they put me on him. And, yeah, I mean, you sat with him

Nestor Aparicio  06:39

in Jamaica, yeah, yeah.

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Dave Sheinin  06:40

And his family and his family, it’s a great, it’s a great story, man,

Nestor Aparicio  06:44

I want you come to that, because that’s, that’s neat.

Dave Sheinin  06:48

That’s awesome, yeah? And I mean, his, his family home was in the middle of the island, and kind of like the jungle, and so I had to, I had to hire a driver to get me there, because there’s no, this was before Uber’s and everything, and there was no street signs. He lived on this little dirt road in the in this village in the interior of the jungle. And the driver had to ask three times for directions to the bolt house. And locals would tell him, You go down this road and blah, blah, blah, and I get there and everything, and everything’s on fire. Like we arrive in like there’s fire in all directions, fields are on fire. And I’m going, What in the world’s going on? And then these three kids come up the road with machetes towards us, and I’m like, Oh, dude, what have I gotten myself into? Well, it turns out it was sugar cane harvest season. So to harvest the sugar cane, which I didn’t know at the time, you set the field on fire, I guess, to make it easier to hack the sugar cane. So that’s why the machine, that’s why they had the machetes. That’s why everything was on fire. And this is when I interviewed the bolt family, including grandma, who’s out there hacking at Sugar cane with a machete. So it was just an amazing I love Jamaica, so that

Nestor Aparicio  07:56

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it’s warmer for me because of that.

Dave Sheinin  07:58

You know, you probably knew about the sugar cane. I didn’t know at the time. I was like, What is going on? It’s like a hellscape. It’s like Armageddon. I was scared to death.

Nestor Aparicio  08:08

Well, I haven’t been into the backwoods of Jamaica because of those reasons. Yeah, you know, I didn’t need the weed fields or the coffee, you know, harvesting or whatever. But yeah, I mean, you’ve done, I guess, the adventure of all of it, and whether you spent 10 more years at the post or not, you had a hell of a run shining.

Dave Sheinin  08:27

It’s a great run. Man. God, so many great stories, so many great adventures.

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Nestor Aparicio  08:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, every time you and I get together, we talk baseball, because you’ve covered, you know, a couple dozen World Series, and we talk about the games and the big moments and all of that this baseball season and the Orioles. And you and I, we probably have done radio once or twice or three times since Rubenstein bought the team in the last two years. You live in Baltimore, you clearly you go to Orioles games, what do you make of where they are right now? Because Alonzo spending 18 and a half million dollars and a number four starter investing in Shane Boz, the money they spent in besayo last year junior coming out this weekend and saying that the gunner Henderson thing because of Boris. You know, that’s all up in the air, but baseball to me this week, because of this ABS thing, my wife and I were sitting there on the Sunday afternoon game when the twins manager got thrown out, and we’re sitting here watching the game. We’re both sick, because I came back from South America sick, and my Machu Picchu adventures before when we’ll get to the April Fool’s joke in a minute. But we’re sitting here, and my wife’s like, this is more interesting, where every pitch can be recalled. And I’m thinking to myself, and I, I don’t remember baseball ever doing anything that ever has made it better.

Dave Sheinin  09:51

Yeah. I mean, that’s a great point. You know, baseball walks a very fine line with stuff like that. You know that you can’t, you can’t go too far. And. And piss off all their traditionalists. I mean, think about when they wanted to bring back stolen bases. Well, you can’t, you can’t move the bases closer together, because 90 feet is sacred, right? That you cannot change it, but you can make the bases a little bigger and sort of do the same thing. And that’s what they did. So so this ABS thing, they had to do it in a way that was unobtrusive, you know, you couldn’t piss off the traditionalist. And yet, you know, they’ve done it in a way. I give them credit that, you know, it enhances the game to something. It adds strategic value. There’s, there’s a whole strategy that goes on behind the scenes of, when are we going to use these you know, we saw, I saw a pitcher, or, I think it was a pitcher the other day who who ran out of challenges in the third inning, you know? And so, you know, you take some risk. By doing that, it adds an element of risk reward to the whole thing. Do I love it? I can’t say I love it, but I don’t mind it. And there are certain ways that I think it does enhance the game. I don’t love seeing a game like yesterday’s game end on a challenge, you know, but that’s where we are, you know. And if you’re getting more of those calls, right, there’s some value in that as well. So I think they’ve hit on something here almost accidentally that is gonna stick around and is it is not a terrible thing.

Nestor Aparicio  11:21

I reached to you on Sunday to have you on in the aftermath of the twins manager arguing with the machine because he didn’t see Helsley touch his hat. And at that moment, I reached to every baseball nerd like you, all my interior friends, Mark Messina has been on this week, and Alan McCallum and Joel poily stopped in from Tampa. I had Mike Vaquero on on Monday doing his Steinbrenner book. So all these great baseball people that I know that love baseball as much as I love baseball, and we all have some traditionalist in us, right? Like, I’m still pissed at an early play. I think it’s, it’s, you know? So there, so in the DH, I remember the dump the DH bumper stickers I had back at the news American 40 years ago. But this one is even more interesting to me, because I feel like it involves the umpires in a way where I had to scratch my head and say, Man, I’ve been doing this 40 years. I’ve only had one conversation that I remember in my life with a baseball umpire, with a major league baseball umpire. I was on a shuttle in Cleveland after Alomar hit the home run in 96 at the you probably got that game with me, the Indian Oreo game. I was on a shuttle in Cleveland, Ben Jacobs field, or Hopkins airport, and I wound up on a shuttle with an umpire, and we were talking about Hirsch back and spitting, and he had some really derogatory things say about Robbie Alomar, because it was in that period of time, was like during that week or those two weeks, and I thought he was like, such a jerk and a gym teacher. And I’m like, oh my god, this is why they don’t put the umpires out with the sports writers to talk to them. I’m thinking in the in your history of how much more baseball you covered that you’ve talked to umpires or interviewed umpires, but I don’t even see profiles on umpires much. I had the I’ve had umpires had written books on my show, but like, way later on. But umpires have been this thing, even for those of us who cover the game, around the game with a press pass, they I don’t know how they view or what they view, but I think of all of them as the institution and sort of this nasty gym teacher with the whistle that can’t be told he’s wrong get back in the dugout. And I also think about the rabbit ears for all of the years behind home plate. But umpiring has changed, and egos around umpiring have changed where this never would have flown 30 years ago. Yeah, it’s true.

Dave Sheinin  13:45

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And I think a big part of that is the fact that, you know, some of those you’ve mentioned, sort of like the stereotype of the old school umpire, a lot of those guys have moved on. You know, they’ve they’ve retired, they’ve passed away, whatever the fact is, and most of these younger umpires who are coming into the game have been dealing with ABS and with, you know, Robo ums and with replay challenges for many years in the minor leagues before it came to the majors, because MLB, you know, smartly tests out some of these rule changes in the minors before they get to the majors, just to Make sure they’re going to fly. There no unintended consequences. So a lot of these guys have come up with this operation, and so get to the big leagues for their first, you know, major league umpiring gigs, and they already know how to handle all this, and it’s not a crazy imposition to them. Did you ever

Nestor Aparicio  14:36

interview umpires? Talk to them? Yeah, you know,

Dave Sheinin  14:38

very seldom. I mean, MLB kept them pretty buttoned up. And, you know, it was only I would only interview them in the context of some kind of, you know, catastrophic, blown call or questionable call that changed the game. And so there would be a pool reporter who would talk to an um hood, to the umpire crew chief. That was me a few times. Um, it wasn’t very often. It was more often I would see them, you know, at a hotel bar or on a flight and just chat off the record, you know.

Nestor Aparicio  15:08

So recognize them, you know, even all the years I spent around Camden Yards, I don’t know that it’s Jim Joyce or Don denckinger or I, literally I you knew their names, because Rex Barney would say Nestor Shylock, or whatever, you know Palermo or who I know their names. But anytime I would talk baseball with, let’s say Mike Messina, in the era, he knew who was behind the plate, and he knew from the high strike zone or low strikes, I mean, in the way that Jim Palmer brings it to people, but I don’t know that there was ever any relationship to even talk about chess protectors or low strike in the National League, or the the expanded strike zone of Greg Maddux, or the you know, or the shrunken strike zone of Tony Gwynn when he’d side eye and say that I saw that better than you did. But in the modern era, to your point, all of the umpires have already gotten report cards. This isn’t some the angel Hernandez thing being kind of famous, you know, last year, but, but all of them, I’m thinking, if you’re calling a bull and during Bulls game 10 years ago, if you’re an umpire, you got a report card from the man who runs the league and says you were 84% behind the plate Tonight. Or, Hey, you got that call wrong? Or whatever they know when they screw up. I mean, it’s their job. Yeah.

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Dave Sheinin  16:26

And more to your point, like, you know, in you mentioned Mike Mussina, like in his days, we didn’t have all this data. We didn’t have the umpire report card posted on Twitter every night, so it was observational, you know, Mike Mussina had to know what the umpire’s tendencies were, and he had to keep that in his head or written down somewhere, or the team had to do it. And that gets passed on to the younger pitchers. You know, Musina could coach a younger pitcher. Hey, this umpire tonight, you know, caused the high strike. So that kind of thing. There was an element of gamesmanship, and sort of, you know, the smartest pitchers had an edge back in that day, more so than they do today, when this data is publicly available and everybody has it at their disposable at any

Nestor Aparicio  17:12

instant or pub. Rodriguez could frame better,

Dave Sheinin  17:16

yeah, well, that too. I mean, the catchers, you know, we’re so much more valuable, you know. And, and I wonder now, what’s going to happen with the the art of framing, you know, in the era of ABS is, does that become obsolete, or is that another part of the strategy? You know? Maybe I’ve heard it, you know, hypothesized that, you know, catchers might try to frame pitches in the opposite direction to try to goad hitters into making a false challenge and losing a challenge, you know, so there, there’s elements of strategy there, but I think in general, you’re going to see less of an emphasis on framing.

Nestor Aparicio  17:51

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What to see Springsteen on Tuesday night in Minnesota, saw that I saw democracy, and I bumped into Paul Molitor, and I hadn’t seen Paul Molitor in 25 years, and we, I knew him a little bit. And then we had a beer, and we were talking and and we were talking about the, you know, I’m talking baseball with Paul Molitor, you know, and about the challenging and the challenge system in a general sense. And I said to him, and I said this on the air this week too. I said, it’s almost like, I believe, they were trying to get rid of umpires, right, trying to bust the union, get rid of umpires, and that that they could do it like tennis has done it right, where there’s a line and you don’t even think about who the line judge, or whatever that it it’s either on or off, and John McElroy can’t yell about it anymore. And then I thought over the weekend watching this, no, no, no. This is American Idol. Now, it’d be like getting rid of the judges in American Idol. You would. It wouldn’t be as entertaining. And I think. And I went back to this Cuba story, and you were on the Oriole Cuba trip, right 99 Nah.

Dave Sheinin  18:52

I joined the post right before that trip happened. So they sent Richard justice, who had covered this story up until then. I was fine with that.

Nestor Aparicio  19:01

So when I went to Cuba on that trip, the night before the Castro game, they were playing the Cuban World Series that, you know, literally. So I went to that stadium, same stadium that we saw Castro in the Orioles and Scott Erickson and Albert Bell, and I saw a Cuban World Series game with my prince of pass. They let us in. Over 100 media people there, and we went to that game and sat in left field as fans and bought popcorn and had beer and soda from the vendors in Cuba. And there was a dispute that night where the manager came out, Lou Pinella Earl Weaver, style hat backwards. And, you know, in Latin America, they whistle, so you got 40,000 people whistling, the managers out there yelling at each other in Spanish, they’re MF and MF. They didn’t take the base and throw it into the dugout, but the fans got into it the umpire. And I thought, that’s the I remember this 30 years later. That’s the drama that. The That’s the American Idol, that’s the dispute part of this that I’m thinking they’re never going to get rid of the umpires. There’s too much drama involved in this. Now, this is Theater. This is part of the theater of baseball that it needs as much as it needs the bat flip. And, you know, it adds some juice to the game for me in a way that I never would have believed, and I really believe they were trying to get rid of the umpires and Moller and I had a real good go, and I said, Molly, it’s, it’s, it’s American Idol. I said they’re going to give them a third challenge, because it’s going to make it more interesting for me and my wife on the couch. It’s going to be a better watch on TV to engage us. And I think baseball’s going to have to move in that direction from an entertainment standpoint, to continue to capture younger people,

Dave Sheinin  20:44

it’s gonna evolve, no question about and I think you’re right. I think that’s the direction that’s gonna evolve into more challenges. Keep that part of the game, keep that part of the conversation, part of the you know, the draw, part of the drama. You know, there was a game this weekend between the NATs and the Phillies where there was a challenge of a play at first base that got reversed. There was an out at first base that should have been he was saved. The runner beat the throw and then the runner off of third, because it was the third out of the inning. The runner off of third just kind of quit between third and home. And so the Phillies, you know, got the out at first base that should have been the third out, but just to be sure, they went and tagged the runner at between third and home who had quit running that sort of phantom fourth out. Well, then the call gets overturned, and the runner safe, and the Philly said, Well, we tagged the guy between third and home. He should have been out. That should have been the third out then. And the umpire said, No, that runner gets to go back to third base and Rob Thompson, yeah, the ROB Thompson, the Phillies manager, went completely, you know, up in arms about it. And so it was a fascinating little wrinkle there, you know, but that runner has to go, he has to be allowed to go back to third base, because think about the opposite. If the Phillies botched the throw over there to home, you know, trying to tag out that runner and they throw it to the backstop and that runner scores, they’re not going to want, you know, so you have to call that a dead ball. But that’s a whole wrinkle that I hadn’t really even thought about. You know, that phantom fourth out, it came into play and and it’s, there’s so many elements and so many wrinkles to this.

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Nestor Aparicio  22:27

I guess it’s what we like baseball these years later, right? We always see something we haven’t seen before. And I think this week, and I’ll just leave it at this, and we’ll get on to the orders. Dave shining is my guest, formerly of the Washington Post, now independent, fiercely he was always fiercely independent, if you listen to his music, but fiercely independent. I can’t think of much that makes sports better for me at this age, the N i l certainly hasn’t done that. You know, I don’t agree with shittler on much, but the kickoffs in the NFL, it hasn’t made the game better. It’s made it safer, which is better, but it hasn’t made it better. There are just so few things that I can really point at and say, hey, they actually made it better, more playoff teams. I don’t know if that’s better or not. It’s different, but I but I think about this is better, and I can’t there’s not often I can open the microphone and have said that year over 35 years, I quit

Dave Sheinin  23:19

watching baseball about five, six years ago, because I couldn’t watch it anymore. The product was terrible. It was slow. It dragged on forever. It was boring. There were fewer. There weren’t enough balls in play. It was all strikeouts and walks and and they they took some drastic steps, right with when they brought Theo Epstein in to sort of tweak the rule book, and they fixed the game. For me, the pitch clock, to me, was the greatest thing that happened to baseball in 50 years. You know that rule that cut half an hour of dead time off the game and made it infinitely better. And I’m watching baseball again and some of these new rule changes, the ABS system, the larger bags, the pick off limit, the you know that have juiced, the stolen bases, the balls and play more.

Nestor Aparicio  24:10

I’m the lefty, righty thing where you come out of the

Dave Sheinin  24:13

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bullpen right? That’s can’t just, you can’t just match up endlessly. I’m I’m back on board. I’m loving baseball again. It’s been a couple of years. Now I’m back on board, and it’s a great game again.

Nestor Aparicio  24:25

Well, it’s easier to love baseball when your team has a chance. I mean, I’ve been doing this 35 years now, and Luke’s been here 17, almost 18, and I can’t remember many Aprils where the Orioles had a chance. I mean, maybe between 12 and six teams. Yeah, maybe 20, 345, you know, whatever, like, there were just decades where April 2 was, you know, I have to play April Fool’s jokes on lock and fora, because there just was nothing here now. We waited all these years for Angela. To die, go away, his kids, Fredo, all of that, I’m not a Rubenstein fan. And Eric Getty. I wrote the spaghetti era Getty thing last week, like, I know he’s running the team because Rubenstein didn’t know anything about baseball, so I still think they’re playing a shell game. I don’t have a I can’t ask questions. The stadium’s empty. I mean, stadiums empty and ticket prices are too much for me. I looked it was 32 bucks to go to the game the other go to the game the other day. And I’m like, That’s too much. But all that being said, Alonzo baz pitching open for business, having the gunner, Henderson’s in the Adley rutchmans. And, you know, beside young stars, they’re on the pathway to something better. And I don’t know whether they’re going to win the 92 games that I’ve predicted them to win this year or not, but I do know, like, I like you a lot, and you have some time on your hands. And you know I have time on my hands here. I’ll go to a ball game with you because, like, I like baseball again. You like baseball again. And we’re not going down there to get a trinket or to play out the string. Watching a team play 420 ball, I least feel like whatever that open for business thing they’re doing, and it doesn’t matter whether I think they’re full of puja or not, if other people are into it and they’re buying in and the city’s rallying around it, from where you live near Patterson Park to where I live in Towson, to the suburbs, where everybody’s voting for Trump and they hate Baltimore, but they love the Orioles, the only they love the Orioles. They don’t have beards and tattoos like I want people to come back and make the Orioles vibrant again. And every time I’ve ever talked to you or anybody else, it’s like, well, they got to win. They could have a chance to win. And at least it feels like these cats, no matter how big their money bags are, whatever happens to Gunter Anderson, that it feels like it’s a real effort again, in a way that for many, many, many years, you and I knew Peter angelos, we just knew it wasn’t going to change until that changed, you know,

Dave Sheinin  26:53

I’ll say this, you know, I feel like what they did this offseason was really, I think it was just, you know, the bare minimum. It was what it was what they had to do to remain viable, competitive. You had to get a veteran presence, a big bat. You had to get a guy who could come into that clubhouse and demand accountability. They spent big on Pete Alonso, you know, it wasn’t the sort of blockbuster move that I would have preferred it was a guy who’s very, very serviceable, a really great power hitter, but he’s, you know, somewhat one dimensional as a player, as a clubhouse presence. He was massive, and he they needed that desperately. They did just enough with the pitching to be viable in the American League East. They’ve recently, they’ve signed younger players, the long term deals where they can, you know more on the periphery, you know, the basayo, the BAS contracts, you know. But they, they’re not going to be able to do that with gunner and Adley, you know. So you have to take your wins where you can get them. But to me, you know, they’re still only they’re only on the fringes of contention. You know, like they, I don’t know, can they win in the Al East? I mean, Boston looks like they’re going to be down this year. Tampa Bay doesn’t look the same as maybe. But you know, they’re still the Yankees, still the Blue Jays. Do they have a rotation that’s going to compete in a postseason series with with the Yankees, if they get, you know, when they get Garrett Cole back and Rodon and and they’ve, you know, they’ve got Max freed in their rotation. And I don’t know, I don’t know if this team is good enough to do that. I also know, though, that this is a very defined window. I think you know the they’re not gonna, I doubt they’re gonna resign Adley. I doubt they’re gonna resign gunner before they hit free agency. Your window is probably, I would say, when gunner goes to free agency in 2029 that’s your window to win. So to me, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta seize that right now. Well, not right now. Wait the trade deadline. I want to see if this team is in contention in July, I want to see this ownership group do something massive, bold and seize it, and let’s go win. You know, I haven’t seen that yet. They’ve done just enough, just enough.

Nestor Aparicio  29:15

Well. The efflin injury is not good for them. Early on holiday, being hurt, not good. Westburg being a question mark. Not and defense, we knew wasn’t going to be great. Bullpen, we knew was going to be, you know, suspect until it’s not right. So I’ve been bullish on them, just because I want to be freaking optimistic. I am Baltimore positive, despite what some people think in Harford County, I want to believe because I’ve seen how bad it can be around here. I believed in the rotation more with efflin in it before his elbow fell apart.

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Dave Sheinin  29:52

You have to account for that though, like it pitching, pitching, it’s attrition over the course of a season. You’ve got to be nine or 10 deep. Was starting, viable starting pitchers, you know, you you have to assume that one of, you know, fland, Boz, Rogers, Brad is, you know, one

Nestor Aparicio  30:09

of the hurt. Every one of them’s been hurt.

Dave Sheinin  30:10

You have to assume at least one of them, probably two of them, is going to be hurt extensively, maybe lost for the year at some point during that’s the way pitching works. So you have to account for that that the Yankees certainly do. You know the Dodgers do. Now, I grant you, that’s a different bracket, you know, in terms of the finances, but you know, you can’t be surprised when Zach Eflin blows out his elbow. And I don’t know that it’s blown out. I mean, you know, elbow elbow soreness is usually a euphemism or a precursor to Tommy John surgery. I don’t know that that’s the case, but you can’t be surprised. You can’t let that just, you know, come up and bite you in the ass. You have to be prepared for that.

Nestor Aparicio  30:51

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Dave shining is our guest, long time Washington Post, a sports writer and aficionado of all things baseball. All right, so look, man, we’ve been at this a while, and your gig in the post, and, like all of that, the the war drums of Major League Baseball and the Players Association, I can’t have you on without at least, I think you’ve probably spent some time, you know, staked out of some hotel, covering, you know, Don fear at some point during your Tony Clark or whatever, Manfred Selig, whatever, underneath of all of this, for Katie Griggs and for Don Roback and for Rubenstein and Eric Getty and the new people here, I don’t know that they have the belly for all of this. You were around when Angelos took the player side in the fight, because he didn’t know any better, and he was new to all of it. I don’t know that Rubenstein and eager when they put their billion eight up, have had red Lords of the Realm. Certainly Rubenstein hadn’t. But what side they’re going to be on and where they’re going to be because at the end of this season, you talked about those fires in the in the Jamaican hills, that’s what Major League Baseball’s gonna look like next winter.

Dave Sheinin  31:58

Yeah, it is, it’s, it’s sad and it and it’s, it looks like worst case scenario. It looks like, this is the big one. This is the one that’s going to shut down the game for a long, long time, the salary cap thing. I mean, the owners are completely out, you know, out for bear on this one. They want that salary cap in the worst way. They’re united in it. You know, I think what’s going to end up happening, the union has always fought, and I’m a union guy. I was a union guy at the post for all my time. I’ve always sort of sided with unions in general. But there’s a point where what baseball needs, and what the union needs is, most of all, is a salary floor, so that teams like the pirates, like the Marlins, and you can’t just pocket revenue sharing money and put a crap product on the team, on the field every day. But to get that salary floor, you’re going to have to accept a salary cap. Now, I’m not saying the union’s going to do that. I’m not even advocating they should. But what that, what this game needs, and what the union needs is a salary floor to get the teams like that to spend the money, and to get that, you’re going to have to give up something massive, and the only thing hanging out there is the salary cap. So that, to me, is where this thing appears headed. It’s going to take a long time to get there. I fear, you know, I

Nestor Aparicio  33:31

went fear. Good word. Speaking of that 1994 I was about to talk about 1994 and saying, Yeah, you know, I was new onto the radio. Then there were no Ravens. Then my last name is Aparicio. We’re in a baseball only town at that time, and covering all of that and trying to understand that. And I did walk a picket line as a union member in the guild of the Baltimore Sun when I was 17 years old in the late 80s. And I remember all of that vividly. And even then, I probably have tapes back here where, you know, squeaky voiced version of me was all amped up talking about it being like the Garden of Eden in the original sin. The original sin was the fact that the Marlins and I remember when the Orioles had all the money, right? 9394 95 Yeah, and the Blue Jays, the Orioles had the money, and the Yankees and the Red Sox weren’t spending the money right at that time. And I thought, well, must suck to be an Astros fan. Must suck to be a Padres fan or whatever. And and then NBA shuts it down over this. And the players run the NBA, obviously the NHL shut everything down for a year, and I’m a hockey guy to get it to where the Toronto Maple Leafs in the New York Rangers couldn’t be the Yankees and the Dodgers. Baseball has done nothing. It’s gotten worse when you consider the Dodgers having 12 major league pitchers and the pirates having two and and trying to these teams that win 48 games at 51 games, the Orioles for five years in the early Elias days. Year that it’s just made the product very choppy, in a way that this is why the NFL rules, because they didn’t have a garden of Eden, and they don’t have the original sin of having the Green Bay Packers be underfunded every minute of every day, every generation forever and feel like they need to get relegated and baseball has to, has to get online with that in some way to and, you know, and listen, during the ceiling era, and I know you wrote pieces of this, we’ve had 19 different teams have won the World soon. So there’s competitive. No, it’s not. I’ve sat here for 35 years, and my franchise is stunk for 25 of them, so I that needs to change. And if you stink on a cord because you’re the Bengals, or you’re the LA Clippers, or you just have a cheap owner who’s a bad owner, or Mark Davis runs your franchise, or whatever, that’s, that’s, that’s one thing. But just looking at the payrolls and now out of whack it’s gotten with two and $300 million payrolls, the sport needs balance in that way. And to me, that is the original sin for baseball, that they if they’re going to break the sport down next year, 35 years later, fix it.

Dave Sheinin  36:11

Yeah, it’s unfortunate, because it is pretty much established. Now it’s established mo that the way to win in baseball, unless you’re a massive, you know, corporation, that if you’re the Dodgers and Yankees, the way you can win as a mid market, small market, you know, is to tank for five years. That’s what the Astros did and built up their little dynasty. The cubs did a mini version of that before they won in 16, the NATs did that before 2019,

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Nestor Aparicio  36:41

how was that a business plan

Dave Sheinin  36:44

to do it. That’s the way to do it. And everybody knows that. That’s what the Orioles did here. You know, when Elias got here from Houston, where he had done that, and he, you know that is, and if that’s the way to win in baseball, you’ve got a problem, because now you’re going to have, every year, there’s a half dozen teams trying to do that, because that is the established path. So when you have a half dozen teams who aren’t competing, you’ve got a problem on your hands, and that’s where baseball finds itself.

Nestor Aparicio  37:11

Dave shining is here. Sid Finch. Sid Finch, oh, man,

Dave Sheinin  37:21

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just that picture. When you send it to me, it just brought back so many memories. I have such a vivid memory of picking up my Sports Illustrated out of the mailbox, seeing that guy on the cover, and being like, whoa, who is that? And then reading the story and just being captivated through, did he didn’t he throw 168 miles. 68 not 167, I mean, I’m sitting there reading. I was, I was hooked. Line and sinker, man, I’m, oh, my God, this is the greatest story. I was captivated and and so, you know, even the mention of that guy’s name, or the visual of that, of that picture, man, just brings back so many memories. I got a

Nestor Aparicio  38:03

lot of people on on Wednesday, yeah, April Fool’s thing, and it’s a friend of yours and Jason, like a colleague of yours as well. I just I, I’ve never played an April Fool’s joke, and this is the first time I’ve talked about it on the air. I’ve never played one in my life. I’m not a jokester. I’m not a prankster at all. That was inspired, believe it or not, at Machu Picchu. I was having a cappuccino after I had spent the eat the morning on the top bowl, and I was going down into the hole for lunchtime, and I was there, and I just thought of something. I thought, well, it’s March, and I get back and I’m writing this dear Sashi thing, and I wrote all these letters to the Oriole people for opening day. And I thought once, when’s April 1 is like, the like, what? What would I do that could pull this up, and if it’s not as good as Sid Finch, I didn’t want to be a part of it, so I knew I had to have an happy April’s day full. It’s not an anagram. I don’t know what you call those things where the first word is H and A, B. I don’t know what that’s called, but Plimpton did it, and I’m like, I’m going to do it. I’ve got AI, I’ve got a subject matter here. Everyone would believe lock in four, and I would make great radio and this whole place where he and I are as the only people here who kind of tell it like it is and how it ought to be, because the media has changed so dramatically. And I wanted to point that out. I wanted the story to have some impact in that way, but I wanted it to be believable and sellable. But that is how inspired 41 years later, I was at the news American I was 17 years old, and it was a big I was in a sports environment with sports writers, Bernie Nicholas and Jeff Gordon and John Steadman are around. That was just one of the greatest stunts ever, and I wanted it to be along those lines and channel it, so it gave me an opportunity. And I hope lock and four is not pissed at me.

Dave Sheinin  39:47

Dave, well, we’ll see about that, I guess, or you’ll see about that. But yeah, kudos to you. Man is well done. Any you know, anything that bridges that. Nostalgic gap, you know, going back to Sid Finch and some, some of your readers, I’m sure, wouldn’t know anything about Sid Fincher, but, but even even without that knowledge, it was still a well done prank, and I give you kudos. But for those of us who know the SID Finch thing, it just added a layer there, that of complexity that was perfect.

Nestor Aparicio  40:19

I was only going to do it in that way, and you know, so I had some fun with it. Dave shining is here, hey, man, I hope you write writings and write books and find whatever the next thing is for you, I look at it as an open canvas for an artist. You know, not just your music and and what you do, but I hope you’re in a good space. And I hope there’s two crab cakes and two beers, minimum, maybe three beers. And I hope we get to a ball game and you got time, you got to go to Milan now. So first 82 degree day, that’s like Wednesday for the business person special. You know, we ought to, we ought to get over and get our old baseball swerve on and go watch a ball game together, at least while they’re competitive until the bullpen falls apart.

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Dave Sheinin  41:01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let’s get on that early. Get on that train early. But, yeah, I’m all yours, man. Hit me up anytime, crab cakes, beers and or baseball, maybe all three at once, you know. But let me know I’m in, like,

Nestor Aparicio  41:15

the playoffs, or else.

Dave Sheinin  41:17

Who often I’ll say, you know, gun to my head right now, on April 2, I’m gonna, I’m gonna say, No, I just don’t, you know, it’s hard, it’s hard to make the play, it’s hard to make the playoffs in that division. But you know, I’m not a pessimist either. I mean, I think this team has a chance. But if you’re asking me on April 2, is this a playoff team, I’m gonna say, probably not, but close.

Nestor Aparicio  41:41

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Sports writers, you you know types and negative media.

Dave Sheinin  41:47

You know, if they’re in contention in July, to me, ownership needs to step up and do what they need to do to push it over the top. I want to see that they’re open

Nestor Aparicio  41:58

for business. Mr. I want to see.

Dave Sheinin  42:01

I want to that’s what I want to see. You can

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Nestor Aparicio  42:02

still find Dave shining and his fantastic music anywhere the internet is served. And if you see a guy walking around with a ball cap somewhere near the pagoda in Patterson Park, it’s probably shining. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.