Football historian and Pro Football Hall of Fame voter Howard Balzer joins Nestor after another lost January for the Baltimore Ravens to discuss their historic offense and the long trail of MVP quarterbacks who struggled to win a Super Bowl in their early years in the NFL. And with Marshal Yanda, Terrell Suggs and Steve Smith Sr. up for Canton busts, we ask the venerable committee member to tell us how it all works.
Nestor Aparicio and Howard Balzer discuss the NFL season, focusing on the Baltimore Ravens and Lamar Jackson. They reflect on the Ravens’ season, highlighting the impact of Derrick Henry and the disappointment of Mark Andrews’ dropped pass. Balzer compares Jackson’s performance to other QBs like Dan Marino and Eli Manning, emphasizing the importance of team success in Hall of Fame consideration. They also discuss the Hall of Fame voting process, the challenges of evaluating players like Terrell Suggs and Steve Smith, and the potential induction of Art Modell. The conversation touches on the Chiefs’ defensive prowess and the upcoming Super Bowl.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Super Bowl week, Hall of Fame, Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry, Ravens season, NFL playoffs, Mark Andrews, Eli Manning, Pro Football Hall, Terrell Suggs, Steve Smith, Marshall Yanda, Chiefs defense, Patrick Mahomes, Super Bowl predictions
SPEAKERS
Howard Balzer, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore. Positive, positively. I, you know, relieved of our A F, C championship game responsibilities, I finally canceled my flight to Kansas City. I have not canceled my flight to New Orleans yet, but I’ll be doing that a couple of Super Bowl brought to you by the Maryland lottery is coming your way. Super Bowl week. We will begin things at Costas, as well as our friends at curio and royal farms Jiffy Lube, throwing us out on the road. This guy has been a recurring figure in my life since my childhood of reading football digest and sporting news and other things. He is connected to St Louis sports journalism forever and the the St Louis Rams, and before that, the St Louis Cardinals. And even before that, a Philadelphia guy who has made his living. Finally, he’s made it to the desert. He’s out there in Phoenix. I get ready for pretty good spring training baseball. There is a rumor that I might be spotted in late February out in the desert at a sticks concert at the Celebrity Theater Tempe, Arizona. Howard Balzer is our resident hall of fame voter. You can find him on the Sirius Radio Network, Sirius XM in the NFL channel, as well as many other places out on the internet. The H man, how are you? How’s life? I mean, I wanted the book you want to talk about Lamar, Kansas City, yeah, and this is, it’s a terrible week to have you on, because we’re doing the requiem This week our
Howard Balzer 01:27
I get that. I understand it’s the way it goes in the NFL. And I will say this, though, it shows how our musical tastes are a little bit different. Because I believe, I think, in a couple of weeks, I will be at the Celebrity Theater for Tommy James and the Sean Dells and the association. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 01:46
you’re only a half a step behind me. I mean, oh, it’s missing. There is Gary puck in the Union cap. Maybe Herman’s Hermits.
Howard Balzer 01:52
There we go, and I’ve seen them. I know you
Nestor Aparicio 01:54
have you and Chip amuse you’re all over my timeline with all that. You all nflers. Um, before I even get going Celebrity Theater. I just want to say this out loud, because everybody in my audience would say, why don’t you talk about sticks? Because I am, I’m friends with sticks, and I go see them places. I have very few bucket list things. Since I got thrown out of the NFL, I’ve been to 27 Super Bowls. My bucket list was to go to one in my life, and I did 27 I’m pretty good. I’m trying to find these bucket list things left to do, and the Celebrity Theater is one of them, because it’s a theater in the round. And here in Baltimore, we had painters mill, and I know you being a Philadelphia and you had the Valley Forge theater up there, where the old schoolers did theater in the round. The original Association, I’m sure, played painters mill in the 70s with Lou Rawls and Dinah Shore and some others. Um, the celebrity at this circle theater. It’s still worth doing, right? It’s so uniquely bizarre, right?
Howard Balzer 02:45
Question about it, and the thing about it is, they have great shows, and it’s a, it’s a, it’s a great mix with who comes in there, and they have a cool place downstairs where you can hang a little bit before the show. I’m
Nestor Aparicio 02:58
gonna get there early Now, see, that’s why I get you to get me all this information ahead of time.
Howard Balzer 03:02
Definitely, dudes, they have a bar and they have some, you know, appetizers and all kinds of memorabilia on the walls. It’s really a that’s
Nestor Aparicio 03:11
why I want to go. There’s there the Hollywood Bowl and the Royal Albert Hall, because I’ve been to Lambeau Field in Fenway point, you know, I’ve been to all those other places. You know,
Howard Balzer 03:18
in the celebrity it’s, it’s a small place, and so there’s no seat that’s bad. And my wife and I, we’ve been to a few there. The one that stands out is Justin Hayward from the Moody Blues that was there.
Nestor Aparicio 03:31
And there’s my birthday. So he’s a good man, october 14. So yeah,
Howard Balzer 03:35
it’s a cool place to be
Nestor Aparicio 03:36
nights in white satin, uh, Howard Balzer is here, um, you know, bring on the end of the season in a tragic, awful way for, you know, the Ravens. You know, the bill sort of perfected getting eliminated. Bad things happen to them. And I hope that doesn’t happen this week. I think we’re, we’ve all become a little bills closet Bills fans around here, but in the general sense of watching Lamar and the Ravens and this version attempt to do this, and we’ll get the bills going to try to knock off moms this week too. Where are you with the Ravens in this Lamar thing and Derek Henry thing? Because this did feel like the best team that they assemble, maybe not the best outcomes, penalties, other things, but I mean really a football tragedy to see Mark Andrews drop that two point conversion on Sunday night.
Howard Balzer 04:24
Difficult. Yeah, no doubt about it. And you, like you said, you thought that this very well could be the year, and especially with the way that Derek Henry played. And not many people thought that he was still capable. They knew he was capable, but maybe not capable to performing at the level that he did, and then that happens at the end of the game. Now, having said all that, we don’t we have no idea what the result would have been had they tied the game. There was still a minute and a half on the clock about and you never know what Josh Allen would have done with the ball. And then if he didn’t do anything, what happens in overtime? You still never. Know, but for it to end that way was disconcerting, obviously, and certainly, so much has been put on. Mark Andrews, I’ll tell you, Nestor, it reminds me somewhat of the drop in the Super Bowl many, many years ago by Jackie Smith. It
Nestor Aparicio 05:18
has been brought up several times this week, you know, for because he
Howard Balzer 05:23
because it was similar in a way. It wasn’t a great throw. I mean, it was a, yes, it should have been caught, but it wasn’t a great throw, just like the one that stopped back through to Jackie Smith, where he had to go to the ground, basically, and be sitting down almost to try to catch it, if he gets it up high in his hands, probably basically an easy catch. I could go into a long story about what that Staubach didn’t even want to run that play because it was meant to be done from the five yard line, not the 10. And so he threw it differently than he normally would. And so Staubach taking, you know, taking some of the blame off Smith and on that one, I mean, here’s Mark Andrews kind of moving backwards, and the ball’s a little bit low. If it’s up there in his bread basket, it might be any the easiest catch he’s ever made. And so I’m not sitting here saying it’s all Lamar Jackson’s fault, but the throw contributed to the fact that the ball was dropped. And it’s unfortunate, obviously, had the Andrews had the fumble earlier, when the ball was punched out. That’s football. You know that that’s football. I mean, those plays happen. And it’s always amazing to me how games turn on those things. I mean, heck, you know, you mentioned Hall of Fame. I don’t want to get in a long discussion now, but you know, the Eli Manning debate and argument is a tremendous one and all that and what’s going to happen there. But what everyone forgets is a couple couple of plays before the great tyre David Tyree helmet catch, he threw a pass towards the sideline that went right through with sante Samuel’s hands on the Patriots, if he intercepts that the game is over, but he wasn’t able to make the catch. And then we saw the David Ty replay, which was for some reason Eli Manning is given credit for, I give him credit for avoiding the rush on that play, but that was just a miraculous once in a lifetime catch. There was more David Tyree than anything in a lot I give him
Nestor Aparicio 07:19
bratch, you know, Immaculate Reception, credit, what?
Howard Balzer 07:24
Exactly? So those are the plays that define the history of the game, and we see so many of them, and that’s what turns a game in the other direction. And yet everyone has to have somebody to blame. And then at the end of the day, they’ll say, well, the quarterback couldn’t win the big one, and the coach couldn’t win the big one, and all those things. But when you get in the playoffs, especially the best teams are playing the best teams. And there’s an old rule Nestor that I like to cite. It’s kind of a basic rule, when you have two great, two really good teams playing, guess what, one of them has to lose, and when that team loses everything that happened, especially late in the game, becomes magnified, and that’s obviously what happened there.
Nestor Aparicio 08:05
Our balls has been covered in National Football League almost as long as I’ve been alive. He’s out in the desert and still young and trim and waiting for the Cardinals to bloom again and spring training to bloom. But in the meantime, we’re left with the questions here. And you know, you are Hall of Fame voter, you’re a historian of the game can’t talk to you about what this the revolution of Lamar, and what this has been. Over the last couple of years, we’ve what we’re seeing Josh Allen and Patrick mahomes doing this week, the imitation of Lamar, that maybe the CJ Stroud, Jane Daniels would be a part of that, that Lamar has been on the front end of this and hasn’t had success in the playoffs for lots of reasons, right? I mean, to your point, I mean, guys, you know, I was talking about Joe Flacco, he won the Super Bowl the in 13 year before he threw the pass at hitley Evanston. And you know what I mean, like, you can’t do better than that. But there is a point for Lamar where winning MVPs and he might win another one in two weeks, right? That that’s not going to be good enough once it comes to Hall of Fame time, that you have to have this thing that is elusive. And you know, for everybody not named mahomes and Brady, it’s elusive. And even if you’re Eli Manning, and you win two of them, you guys are like, Well, is it really good enough? You know, so in the case of Lamar and what the offense has become, and what Derek Henry being added to this. And I’ve talked all the DVO a guys and all the modern guys. Some of you old schoolers, you’re not the only one old school Robin chasing around this week, but Greg cosell and John McLean, amongst others, just trying to put all of this into perspective the way I used to do with the Super Bowl. I said, if art modell called me from the grave, and said, Hey, I hear the Ravens. Have a good team. Tell me about them. And I just gave the stats of Lamar. Well, the quarterbacks, young, African American. He threw for 4100 yard, wow, yeah. He 41 touchdowns and four interceptions. Are, yeah, he ran for 900 yards. Are No no, no art, let me tell you the best part. The best part is the running back is. Going to the Hall of Fame, and his only comparable is Jim Brown, you know, like, I don’t even know where to begin, but, but art, they didn’t win. They got knocked out in the division.
Howard Balzer 10:12
No, that’s, that’s the conundrum. I mean, there’s no doubt about it, but the one thing I always say is that, you know, Dan Marino and the dolphins didn’t have much postseason success during his career. John Elway didn’t have much success during his career until they got Terrell Davis at running back, and they had a running game. And the dolphins really never had much of a running game when, when he was there. You know, the bills, of course, with Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas and and Andre Reed and James Lofton for a couple of years, they had tremendous talent, and they got to four Super Bowls, but lost them all, and yet, all those guys are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And so I
Nestor Aparicio 10:57
Reno had Dickerson, it would have been different.
Howard Balzer 11:01
Well, yeah, you would think so, you know. And the funny thing about the whole Miami deal is that it was almost as if Don Shula the coach, the head coach for most of those 18 years. I think it was that Marino played. It was almost as if he forgot everything he knew about football when they won the Super Bowl and he was with the dolphins and one of the Super Bowls, Bob greasy, who’s in the Hall of Fame, I think he threw 12 passes in the Super Bowl game, something like that, because they were able to run the ball so well. So it was almost as that was a
Nestor Aparicio 11:31
running back committee with kick and greasy and and Mercury Morris. I mean, it was literally, that’s the way you thought of football at that point. And that was a little unprecedented to to build three running backs in that way at that era. Right? The bottom
Howard Balzer 11:44
line is, is having that running game support for your offense. I’ll never forget one playoff game, and I believe it was against either San Diego or Pittsburgh that the dolphins were playing and they had the lead, and it was not much time left in the game and they got the ball, and they they couldn’t run the balls like Don shule again, forgot about what’s important in football. It’s not just building it around the quarterback. Well, you have to build around him, no doubt, but the running game has to be a part of it. They threw three passes in a bleed the clock situation, and they were incomplete, and I and whatever the other team was went down, then went down the field and won the game. And so it was just bizarre. And so those, those are the things you know that, you know, Dan South’s, you know, with the chargers, never got in to the Super Bowl, and those guys are in the Hall of Fame. I mean, like you said, what Lamar Jackson has done, I don’t want to say it’s revolutionized football, because a lot of players have done what he’s done to a degree in the past, but he’s revolutionized it to the extent that he does it with those numbers. And if that continues for however many more years he plays, and the numbers are just off the chart, if he doesn’t have the Super Bowl or great postseason success, to me, at least, that should not tarnish his Hall of Fame legacy. Now, you might not put him in the class of the quote, greats from the from the quarterbacks that won. But again, look at those quarterbacks that won. You know, Terry Bradshaw. I mean, look at the, look at those offensive players he had, the defense, the running game, you know, with, you know, with Franco Harris, the passing game with Lynn Stallworth and Lynn’s, I mean, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann, both Hall of Famers. You know, look at those guys that they had, the one thing I’ll say, except for Derek Henry, and that’s just for one year. Who knows what will be going forward. He had, he hasn’t had, you know, that, for a sustained period of time. And so I think that has to be taken into account also. So again, to me, it shouldn’t turn it but he might not put him in the greatest, the greatest of all time, but I don’t know why there’s a rush to call everybody the greatest. I mean, Tom Brady is considered the greatest for one reason only, and that’s because the team won all those Super Bowls with him, the team won. And I hate it, quite frankly. Nestor, when you hear people say he won or he lost, well, no, he didn’t. The team won or the team lost. And this is the ultimate team sport. There is where you have 11 guys on the field, on on each play, and each one has a specific job, and if one of them messes up an offensive lineman, whoever it might be, that can blow up the whole play. And so to me, that’s the biggest thing. But you hear that all the time. He did this, he did that. No, the team did. But you somehow have to separate that and make judgments on individual players in terms of their greatness and their legacy.
Nestor Aparicio 14:45
Howard Balzer is here. He’s a pro football hall of fame voter. He is at in the desert after spending many years in St Louis and Philadelphia before that, covering the National Football League for many, many years. The Hall of Fame ballot up. We’ll get to that in a couple of minutes. But the Derek Emery, Lamar. One two punch. And, you know, I got to thinking about this a couple weeks ago when I got my Derrick Henry Houston Oiler throwback jersey that I’ve been wearing here, that I’ll be wearing probably the rest of my life, because he’s going to the Hall of Fame. It was the notion that you just pointed out on your own, which is why you’re Hall of Fame voter. Stallback, Dorsett, right, Bradshaw, Harris, Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Kurt Warner, Marshall Fauci Manning, edger and James just got, you know, you go through these Batman and Robin and all right, you know, even said peanut butter and jelly or salt and pepper, whatever it would be. And that is part of the component here, for Lamar and for me, I thought that once Mark Ingram left, it changed a little bit. Marking was a little bit of a grown up in the room. When he had gotten here, he had won the Drew Brees thing. He brought all that. And it changed. They drafted Dobbins. They never got the productivity they needed out of the running back position. And I thought Lamar has got to be the decoy, not the guy running into linebackers 18 times a week. That can’t happen. And it happened so much. And the Derrick Henry, think to me, you know, I said they would be unstoppable if they ever got Derrick Henry. I wrote that at two different trading deadlines, believing that, then they got Derrick Henry. Clearly, they got stopped this week in Buffalo. But I do think it’s there’s a brilliance involved in it that history, and people like you that note history and vote on history, have an appreciation for this really special adding a still can do it, Hall of Fame, running back into this offense where they are. And there’s a lot of talent here, and you know, horrible is going to have to stay in judgment when his day comes for why this does or does not win during this era, it has, hasn’t won yet, but it hasn’t been for lack of talent and success to a large degree, other than a fumble and interception and a drop two point conversion that eliminates you. But this has been, by any measure, old school guys like you are the DVO a guys that are doing all that this has been a historic, little weird thing that they’ve managed to put together here, this revolution of hardball and this offense with monkin and before that, Greg Roman,
Howard Balzer 17:09
no question. And I think the one thing you have to look at too is that this league is a one score league with a number with the percentage of games that are decided by one score or less the the number is very high. And so what’s that’s the difference in those one score games? I mean, heck, let me know with the bills losing that first Super Bowl and a missed field goal. And so, you know, those are the things that have an impact. And let’s also Nestor not minimize the impact for the Ravens of not having zay flowers in the game, your best wide receiver the other guys stepped up and did a nice job, but you didn’t have one of your best guys for this game. We’ll never know what the result would have been had he been there and and that’s that’s another deciding factor. A lot of times in the NFL, are the, is the injury factor? I mean, the Ravens were pretty, remarkably healthy for most of the season. I put together. In fact, you know, the eight teams that were playing over the weekend, they had the one of the fewest number of players on injury reserve. Well, of course, flowers isn’t on injury reserve, and that, you know, that was a factor, obviously, in that game. I mean, look at the lions. I mean, everyone’s acting all shocked at what happened at this game. And I call it collective amnesia, where everyone forgets what they said before the game, and then when it happens, there’s this, there’s this, oh my gosh. How could that happen? Well, what most everyone was saying about the lions is, would all these defensive injuries come up to bite them in the postseason? And everyone said that, and then when they did, everyone acts like what? It didn’t matter. I mean, this is a team that I looked at this the other day, because when I do some national stuff on the website I write for, which is Cardinals oriented, I kind of like to do a connection to the Cardinals. And so I looked up the other day the lions played the Cardinals in week three, and only beat him by a touchdown. The Lions had six starters on defense in that game that ended the season on injured reserve, six defensive starters that. So it’s one thing, different team
Nestor Aparicio 19:23
at the end of the year, in the yard at the beginning, if you do it, if you do it right, you stay full. The Raven state is close to full as they could. They lost. And we’re still talking about Jay flowers, right? We’re still talking about the one
Howard Balzer 19:33
guy they’re missing. Lions gave up in the last four or five rakes of the regular season gave up 31 to the Packers, 48 to the bills, 34 to the 40 Niners. Then they had the good game against the Vikings, where they only give up nine oh, okay, the defense is fine. Well, you know that that Vikings offense, even with good players on it, is not the commanders, which Daniels and and they didn’t have any turnovers in the game. Washington did not, and they gained 400 and I think it was 481 yards in that game. And so that’s, you know, injuries are real. A lot of people will say, well, those that’s an excuse. No, that isn’t an excuse. When you have a lot on one side of the ball or at one position group, and you’re just, there’s reasons, guys are backups, and you you can overcome it, maybe sometimes with one or two backups playing, but if you’ve got six backups playing on your defense, that’s a recipe for disaster. At some point, Howard
Nestor Aparicio 20:32
balls are here, speaking, since he is out in the desert, he works for Sirius XM, still covering the National Football League as well as anyone you can find him out of social media as well. The Hall of Fame vote is up before I get to that last thing, because we used to get together at the Super Bowl and talk about things. And obviously, might be Josh Allen. It might be Patrick mahomes, who knows? But for my purposes, now, let’s just pretend it’s the chiefs, their home, their favorite whatever. You know, if they win again, what we’ve seen here with Brady and Belichick in New England, and then taking Brady to to Tampa during the plague. And now what mahomes And Andy Reid on the other side of this from the coaching standpoint, it’s spagnolo Kelsey throw. You know that that group into it? Jones to all you know, this the core of this chiefs thing. This is, it’s an amazing time in sport where I as a baseball fan, and I know you’re a big baseball fan too. We’re here in Baltimore trying to figure it out. The pitcher went out to the desert for two 30 million, how much money you spend. There’s no cap, and the NFL everything’s about parity and the draft and the best best teams and the worst teams. Level playing field, Green Bay can compete with the LA Rams. The whole deal that these special coaches and whatever their system is, and then they find a quarterback and get a system around it, and the quarterback so good that we have really underestimated even this chiefs thing, that they’re doing it again, that they’re home again, that it wasn’t a good enough one last year until they gave the last game away, that they weren’t winning by enough that they got lucky, but ain’t no luck. I mean, I don’t know about this, like, if they do this again and win again and somehow get, like a depleted Eagles team or a rookie quarterback with Washington and the other end, there’s no way I like the NFC team if the Chiefs win this week at home. What I mean, the chiefs are almost boring us to some degree, and we have moved to the point this week where everybody’s a Bills fan because they’re in the mafia. The bills have never won, and we feel sorry for them. I remember the Chiefs feeling sorry for the cheese forever. You know Lynn Elliott, Joe Montana, and it’s Marty shot, and I’m in the team who couldn’t get it done. Now the Chiefs have become that, well, we don’t like them anymore. They win too much,
Howard Balzer 22:44
you know, no question about it. And you know, I think that when the thing that gets overlooked a little bit with them, because it’s all Patrick mahomes and Andy Reid, and obviously they are a huge part of it, and Taylor Swift to her end, and Travis Kelsey steps up in that playoff game. But what’s really won for them, and won for them last year was the defense, and hardly anybody, well, they do. You know, hardly anyone talks in the same breath about Steve spagnolo, who puts that who has put that defense together? And if the Chiefs win this, as I said earlier, if the Chiefs win this game against the bills, in large part, it will be because the defense will have found a way to just slow down the bills offense enough where Patrick mahomes is in position or Kelsey you’re in position to make those plays when they need them. And so that’s that, that’s a big part of it, and they’re excellent on defense. Fact, Steve spagnolo, who, he’s the only coordinator on either side of the ball who has been on four Super Bowl winning teams. And my point go back just quickly to the whole Eli Manning argument that first game against the Patriots in the Super Bowl, which was the undefeated season for New England. And that was the David Ty recap. And everyone says, well, here we go. He Eli he beat Brady. Oh no, he didn’t beat Brady. The Giants defense beat Brady. That was a team that averaged over 30 points a game during the regular season, well over 400 yards, and in that Super Bowl, had less than 300 scored, I think was 14 points in the game, and if it wasn’t for the defense, the offense wouldn’t have even been in position to score a late touchdown to win the game. And so that’s what the defense obviously does for you, keeps the game close and lets the great players on offense make the plays when they need to, and that’s a big part of what, what the Chiefs have done, certainly over these last few years. And you can’t, and most people that couldn’t even name more than one guy on that defense, and the one guy is Chris Jones, but I bet people couldn’t even name a lot of the other guys, you know the, you know the Nick boltons, and you. Know who I can’t think a lot of them at the top my head Leo should now, oh yeah, everybody knows him, right. But they play great team defense and come up with big plays. And so if it like I said, if everyone will hail mahomes, but if the if the Chiefs win this again, and they’re one step away from getting there. Obviously it will, in large part because of the defense. Also had a
Nestor Aparicio 25:26
bunch of the Pro Football Hall of Fame voters on here the last couple of weeks. Howard Balzer is with me right now. He has a ballot. The system’s a little different than it used to be. We used to all get in the room together, and I’d run into you guys at the hotel on the Super Bowl weekend, on the Saturday on there having a good time going to Lee Steinberg’s party. You’re all like, Peter King’s like, I gotta pee and I get back in there, we gotta vote on Art Monk, or whatever it is. You guys have all been doing this. Um, Steve Smith, Marshall yonda And obviously Terrell Suggs on the ballot. You’ve made three or four references to your anti Eli Manning stance here, Howard, I’ve I’ve caught this a little bit on the side. I partial to Eli because he seems like a nice human. And he survived the grinder of the giants and won a couple of championships. The humor of him and his brother and his father’s a wonderful man. And I remember Eli doing my show when he was at Ole Miss back when I was syndicated many years ago. He’s only years ago. He’s only time I’ve ever had him on my show, but he was a kid, um, now on the ballot, right, and with two championships that you’re trying to take away from Billick would always say, like, when he would give his speeches, I go out with him. When he’s partnered with our company, he have his ring, and he’d show the ring saying, See that, that’s my Super Bowl ring. And this is all his speech. You can hear his voice in. That’s my Super Bowl ring. He’s like, you know, they tell you that once you win a Super Bowl ring, they can never take it away. But that doesn’t make him stop from trying. So in ELI Manning’s case, you’re not trying to take away his rings, but they were, you know, interesting years in your mind, what makes a Hall of Famer? And I would ask this to you, and I want to give a quote to the late, great Phil Jackman, who left us a few months ago, who’s a baseball Hall of Fame voter, and I was very young, impressionable kid, Howard, I’m in the car. Phil was an old, salty curmudgeon sports columnist from from Massachusetts, in the evening sun. He loved hockey. And he would, we would go to the hockey games. We would talk about all this stuff. And I would always say to Phil, what possesses you to not vote for a guy in the Hall of Fame this year, and then the next year, put him on the ballot? They either are or they aren’t. Well, he’s not a first ballot all of a and he would go through this whole thing with me, with the band, and I swore like if I ever got a ballot, and I was on the baseball beat long enough that if Angelos didn’t buy the team, if Bill DeWitt bought the baseball team, I’d be a Hall of Fame voter in baseball, probably Hall of Fame voter football this book, because I wouldn’t got thrown out either one of them, but the Hall of Fame thing I’ve always wanted to be. I feel like I’m qualified like all of that humbly and all that. But what you guys get put through, and even every time you’re on a sports radio show with me, why isn’t art modell in? What’s going on? Give me your philosophy, because I would have my own philosophy if that guy’s in is not in. Be very hard to convince me a guy is or isn’t. But you’ve tried in the Eli Manning thing in your persuasive way. But what? First off, you’ve been qualified for a long time. You’ve been a Hall of Fame voter, but I think all of you have a different mindset about how you go about your vote and listening to all the information. And I think the most important thing all of you do is you really do get in and fight it out, and you talk about it and you listen. And I think it’s important to do that when you’re on the committee. And I commend all of you for that, but you’re all wrong about art of art. Modell, I just want to say that out loud, because I can’t let you get away
Howard Balzer 28:45
with it. I appreciate those comments. And the other thing that we all do is we talk to people also. You know, there’s people who throw little barbs our way, and we get it. That’s part of it. But it’s like they say, well, they don’t, they didn’t like that guy, or this or that. Well, I always say, Hey, if you make it as a 15 finalist, that shows that as a group, there were enough people voting for him that felt he was, you know, worthy of being discussed as a potential Pro Football Hall of Famer. So this whole thing, Oh, you don’t like the guy, or you have something against him, or you like he said, or you voted against him. I always say this, we vote for people, and that it’s one of the most humbling, the hardest thing that I do every single year, when you get that ballot in the even, especially in the preliminary stage, I know
Nestor Aparicio 29:32
how sacred all of you take it, and I’ve seen the process that gets heismans in baseball, and it wasn’t. It’s not going back to Pete Rose and my cousin’s in the Baseball Hall of Fame. So, I mean, I don’t want to piss on the Baseball Hall of Fame, but the whole thing’s become a little bit of a circus, and you all need to really make sure that doesn’t happen with the football side, when art’s being thrown out because somebody doesn’t like him and like the Baseball Hall of Fame, where Marvin Miller could never get in because, like, so we got to change the game, you know, fund them. Then only change it like so, I mean, I understand the politics. I feel like there’s less of it in your room. I really do. I feel like your thing’s a little bit more sacred than not letting sticks into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as an example.
Howard Balzer 30:13
And one example I always use in terms of quote liking someone is Warren sat I mean, there was a guy that many of the media didn’t like it all. He didn’t, didn’t treat the media with respect for the most disrespected.
Nestor Aparicio 30:24
My wife in front of me, my wife, as you know, one of the most beautiful women on earth, guy did something to my wife that probably would have gotten him punched in any other circle, you know, like, literally, you know what I mean. Like, so with when it comes to Terrell Suggs, who’s on your ballot this time, and I know you’re not allowed to consider this. You appreciate this. How long you’ve been a sports writer? Howard? How many years?
Howard Balzer 30:47
Well done. In fact, after this Super Bowl is over, I will be beginning my 50th year covering pro football.
Nestor Aparicio 30:54
If you ever stood in a locker room, in a football locker room on a Wednesday afternoon with your notebook out, or your your tape recorder, even if you just stand in there, like, like I often did, just listening, observing, um, because all on tape now, anyway, and had a football player take his his pinky, go like this, put it in his mouth and stick it in Your ear while you’re at a press conference? No, that’s never happened. Yeah, Terrell Suggs did that to me so like, and when I smacked his fat arm because he’s three times my size, I said, what the you doing? Like, these are the things that, like, I couldn’t be in a room with a guy had sprayed bleach, allegedly, on his like and but none of that gets counted. And every time I bring it up, all of you are like that. None of that matters. And I’m thinking it all matters. And I guess it matters in OJ, you know, God rest his soul, thoughts and prayers. But like for any you know, I think characters an issue, and I think baseball’s taking it a whole different level and like all of that, but I do think that there’s an issue for your hall of fame that you try to really keep it between the lines. Everything I said about Terrell, so none of that matters, and I’m okay with that. And I’ve even said that if I had to vote between Suggs yonder and Smith, I think Suggs will get in first. I’ve said that, but that’s been disputed already this morning by John McClane that said, no, no, yonder will get in for like, I don’t know, I don’t know what the fever is in your room. I watched all three of them play. And here I go, back to Phil Jackman. Here’s where I go. And by the way, Heinz words a Hall of Famer, and I’m a Baltimore guy, right? I can’t believe he’s off the ballot. Like, that’s crazy to me. He’s off the ballot. It’s crazy to me, arts, not in but to me, yonder Smith and Suggs. They’re all three Hall of Famers. To me, like to me, I watched them all play through their career. If I were in the room, I’d be hard pressed to vote, to your point, against any of them, but they would all have my vote eventually, maybe not in for me, it’s the order for me, it’s the order of all 15 of these guys that you’re about to talk about, I don’t know how Heinz Ward got thrown out of the room, or how you get back in, or Reggie Wayne. To me, I don’t know that. I think Reggie Wayne is, is it is? So I you’d have a hard time convincing me. But then you go in there, and I am sure you have voted for some people that maybe you didn’t think you were going to vote for. Is that right? Am I right in saying that?
Howard Balzer 33:21
Well then yeah. I mean, there’s been times where you just listen to what’s being said and you say, yeah, all of a sudden your eyes get open. I’ll complete my earlier thought about SAP in that he wasn’t liked, but yet he went in on the first ballot. And so that was my point there. And jury always was
Nestor Aparicio 33:38
a great player that was divisive in all of these things, but I’d have to vote to put him in, I guess.
Howard Balzer 33:43
Well, he did. I think that not voting for certain things was a big discussion with that, because a lot of the stuff that he did quote off the field, off the playing field, in games he he did a lot of divisive stuff in the locker room and things like that.
Nestor Aparicio 34:00
Smith punch teammates. I saw him do stuff to media members that was disgraceful, despicable things that, honestly, Chad Steele and Kevin burn, if they were doing their jobs and they weren’t, would have gotten more involved, you know? I mean, because these are athletes, they’re very, you know, Marshall, John, they got pissed at me one day, and I pot, you know, like, I’m good with Marshall, but like, I’ve seen things that have made me think differently of people and places in different ways, and then you find that they punch teammates and different things like that. I think that is a factor. You know what I mean? Like being a great teammate, being a great leader, that’s really important. I To me, it’s fundamental about whether I want you to be my friend, whether I want you to be my family member, whether I want you in my room with me. And that would force me to think about Terrell Suggs differently. Is to say, could I have one without him? What I would have wanted a different kind of guy on my team? And in some cases, Terrell Owens and some other players have been that way. I think.
Howard Balzer 35:01
Like a lot of great points. There’s no doubt. And, you know, I don’t and no one’s been quote thrown out of the room, but other people get the votes. And Heinz Ward is one of those guys that the complete receiver didn’t compile great numbers, right? A great blocker, physical and all those things the winner, but other receivers with numbers have have jumped over him, whether it’s Terrell Owens, whether it’s Randy Moss, whether it’s Andre Johnson, and even
Nestor Aparicio 35:31
if they’re cheap, late yards on a blowout, bad team. You know what I mean, like. That’s why the stats can be very, um, misleading. I think in football, in any game. They can be misleading.
Howard Balzer 35:42
Sometimes, sometimes they can be and Reggie Wayne and Tory Holt have been finalists. This is, this is the sixth year for both of them. And I’m partial full of disclosure. I, you know, I present the St Louis guys, the Rams guys, and I’ve been presenting Tory Holt, and you mentioned there’s kind of an order I think Tory Holt would have been in already had he not been eligible for the first time, at the same time as Orlando pace, Kurt, Warner and Isaac Bruce. So there was kind of a pecking order. This is already Tory Holt’s 11th year
Nestor Aparicio 36:21
of eligibility. Yeah, he’s being penalized for being on a team that was too good, yeah,
Howard Balzer 36:26
in a sense, yeah. In a sense, he’s there, and people keep voting for him, but he’s just not able to take those next steps. So that, that’s what makes it all all difficult. And the bottom line is, each year, we get 15 finalists, and a maximum of five can get in, and that means there’s 10 people, 10 guys that are that are disappointed. And this year you mentioned Suggs and yonda, they’re five. I think sometimes there’s a little too much of a rush to put first time eligible guys in, because that takes the spot away from others who have been waiting.
Nestor Aparicio 36:59
Well, that’s where the Eli Manning, question comes in this year that, yeah, maybe, maybe he’s a Hall of Famer. But like, you know, let’s not compare him to Peyton and Tom Brady based on the body of work. And to your point, I don’t see there’s no lucky Super Bowls that’s disrespectful to Trent do for you know, it’s disrespectful to anybody that’s won. But there is, I mean, Joe Flacco is one. He’s not going into the Hall of Fame, and he’s a really good player for a long time, but not good enough,
Howard Balzer 37:24
and Drew Brees with all the 5000 yard seasons one Super Bowl. I mean, people act like it’s easy to win a Super Bowl, so but like you said, I think the key words you said there was body of work, and that’s what you have to look at. Listen to what everybody says, the people that they say they talk to, and then try to make the best decision you can. And the other part of it Nestor is this, and noone ever knows that, at least Baseball Hall of Fame, they announce, and there’s only one vote. There’s no reduction votes and all that. There’s one vote. You gotta get 75% and then they announce how many votes everybody got. So you can see that a guy, oh, my god, he missed by five votes, or something like that. Well, in our cuts, the first one to 25 and then the 15, and then to 10, and then this year, the new process voting for seven. You never know who was 26 right? Who was 16th? You know who was 11th? They they probably with only, you know, baseball has over 400 people voting. We have 49 so the chances are that couple of the guys that that missed the reduction vote might have missed by one or two votes, but we don’t know that. They don’t tell us how many people got votes and so. But there’s this whole notion, oh, they were against this guy. They voted. They didn’t vote. Well, I’m sure people did, right, but they didn’t get enough to move on. And, like I said, probably missed by very few votes. And I’ve advocated for not, not necessarily, announcing everyone, but give us the next two or three guys that were really close to making the reduction, because that can be helpful, perhaps the next year, when you’re voting again and knowing, knowing how close some guys were, we can only guess that they were, but we don’t know for a fact. And that’s one of the realities of the Pro Football Hall of Fame process that I think a lot of people don’t think about and realize, well,
Nestor Aparicio 39:24
if Marshall Yan to Steve Smith or Terrell Suggs don’t get in the Hall of Fame, it’s all Howard balls fault. He is here. He’s the H man out of the desert in Arizona. If Eli doesn’t get in, I’ll know that you stood up and made it. I you know, for me, great players and their accomplishments. I love the Hall of Fame. I love what it stands for. Hope to get out there. To get out there and visit again sometimes, and I know they’ve been changing it, making it better. I mean, at one point it was a little more antiquated. We’ve always had that issue here in Baltimore. I would hold up my Baltimore Colts belt buckle for you about the records and the Colts and stuff like that. And it was like, there was some point late in the season where I was watching a game, and there. Like, yeah, the young running backs about to break Lenny Moore’s franchise record. I’m like, Ah, that’s when you it’s when you kick me in the nuts hour. That’s when you really get after my chart. You kick me in a crab is what you do here in Baltimore. I hope life is good for you out in the desert, they got a football team out there. I know the Rams move that game out to the dome. There are a lot of people out there. You got spring training going on, and we got a Super Bowl two weeks away as well. It’s always good to visit with you put some good ones in the Hall of Fame. What’s up with art modells candidacy? Does he go to some senior committee thing now where you guys will sneak him in the side door? Now he’s been dead 10 years
Howard Balzer 40:37
on the contributors list. There’s a separate contributors category, and he’s been on that, and there have been some advocating for him, and his name has been on there, and so maybe his name
Nestor Aparicio 40:49
come out next week as the as in. I’m only asking, like, when’s the next time he could, like, be in it and get in
Howard Balzer 40:57
the contributor, only one person comes out of that committee to be able to be voted on by the full committee. And this year was a guy named Ralph hay, who was one of the founders of the National Football League back in 1920 so it won’t be this year, but next year, it’ll go through the same process, and it’s, it’s possible that he could be there. I’d like to say one, one quick thing, if I, if I can, just about, do
Nestor Aparicio 41:22
I write the nominate that’s what I need to know. Who do I need to call? Hey, fairly I’m looking, oh, my
Howard Balzer 41:27
pro football hall of fame, fans, fans. Everybody can nominate people. And art modell has been on that nominees list, and that’s been the case now for for for a few years. But the one thing I wanted to mention, you know, you mentioned the first timers, as opposed to other guys and all that. And there’s a lot of people think that the first time eligible, and we have long discussions about players every year, and a lot of people think that for a guy to at least be a first time eligible, he should be the guy where the presenter stands up and says, I present Jerry Rice for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and then drop the mic and have nothing to
Nestor Aparicio 42:02
say. Eli’s not that guy, right? No, there’s no nobody this year’s that guy right? Orders
Howard Balzer 42:07
are needed, and then you don’t have to discuss it. Well, I’ve been on this committee a long time. I’m still actually considered the Los Angeles Rams selector on the committee, because they’ve never found anybody in LA that they feel should be on it. And so I’m looking, I’ve presented, been parts of the presentations for Orlando, pace, Kurt Warner, I’ve been done, done the opening presentation several years for Isaac Bruce now, Tory Holt. I’m kind of looking forward to, hopefully, that I’m still doing this in about five years, and I’m still the Rams guy where I can stand up and say, I present Aaron Donald for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and drop the mic, and I won’t have to prepare or make a presentation and there won’t be any discussion afterward. There’s very few of those type of guys. And many, like I said, many believe that those are the ones that those are the only ones that should get in on, you know, in that first year of eligibility, Fitzgerald
Nestor Aparicio 43:10
might be that guy next year, right? Yeah, he
Howard Balzer 43:13
very, yeah. He definitely, probably will be. And even I’m here in Arizona, Kent summers, who’s been covering the Cardinals for years and years and years. Man, Ken summers, yeah, he’s the Cardinals representative, and so he I joke with him, are you going to retire from the committee once you’re able to do the mic drop for Fitzgerald? And he just laughed and said, we’ll see. But I’m sure he’ll he’ll appreciate being able to do that. He had a he was the main presenter for Aeneas Williams, who played most of his career in Arizona, even though I chimed in for his time with the Rams, along with Bernie miklas, who was on the committee then, but yeah, Kent now, you
Nestor Aparicio 43:51
know Bernie and I worked together in my first job at the news American. So you know, when you say Bernie, I know what you’re talking about. People in this town know Bernie miklas, people in Philly and St Louis and all over. Know, Howard balls run, and when I was young boy reading his work, he’s out in the desert, you know, from the Hall of Fame thing, I wish all of you well. I know it’s not easy work. And, you know, getting all these guys in, and we’ll worry about Lamar when the time comes for Lamar, and you won the Rams thing. I mean, you got to bring back Fred Dreyer for all his contributions with hunter to add him to the to the ledger for the Rams. By the way, I saw Tory Holt running around at that game last week out in Arizona. And I said, Hey, man, looks like Hall of Famer, Tory old. So I I, I would vote for Tory if I were in so let and he was a good man too. So hey, listen, I wish we were talking about the Ravens in Kansas City this week, or the Ravens going to the Super Bowl in New Orleans, but we’re not but it’s gonna be good off season if I get out to the desert to the celebrity theater to see sticks, I’m calling you balls, or we’re gonna go have a proper cheeseburger out there, or some proper nachos out in the desert. All right. Good. Look forward to a man Howard balls are my friend from Sirius XM radio and Hall of Fame. Voter extraordinaire for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. As we all have eyes on Marshall yonda, Steve Smith and Terrell Suggs here, I can’t imagine. I am back for more. We are Baltimore positive.com. Stay with us.