The outfield backup jam from Norfolk to Camden Yards

With the recall of Jackson Holliday from Norfolk, it appears to be the first of many young players the Orioles will be needing to make room for in Baltimore or a decision about in the coming weeks as Heston Kjerstad, Kyle Stowers and others continue to destroy Triple A pitching at Norfolk to start the season.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

year, games, orioles, point, season, bats, pitcher, day, bullpen, baseball, talking, mullins, red sox, team, roster, play, pitching, winning, batista, triple

SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are W N S T A and 1570, Towson, Baltimore. Baltimore positive. We are taking the show on the road twice this week. We will be at cost it’s on Tuesday from 11 till two if this is after Tuesday and you want to listen Friday’s the day to come by at fade Lee’s before the ballgame. The Corbin burns show is on our side of the fence so we could still get even for 1982 if you’re so inclined. Milwaukee Brewers coming to town on Friday will be a fade Lee’s live from two until five. I will have Pac Man scratch offs to give away also powered up by our friends at Jiffy Lube and liberty pure solutions. Luke will be joining me from two until three targets Morial baseball then he will be scattering off to Oriole Park at Camden Yards for reporters duty on a Friday night and hopefully we get some decent weather around here. We’ve had let’s see, we’ve had WrestleMania we’ve had solar eclipse. I don’t know what else we’re gonna have here. But we’ve got games at Fenway Park. And I knew when Luke Jones, he spent the entire offseason pooping on the Boston Red Sox battle, give them a chance. I don’t give them a chance. Now we got to go up there. We got to play him. So I’m gonna let you talk your game and I’ll try to track down Bob Ryan and Dan Shaughnessy, you said some health issues amongst other things to talk about the history of the Orioles and the Red Sox. But rare rare has it been in this century or during my marriage, which is now 21 years old? Where the Baltimore Orioles go to Boston? And are the better team are perceived as such. And they’re not even the better team on the field because the Red Sox have gotten off to a start because You jinxed.

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Luke Jones  01:38

Yeah, well, you could talk about all those guys have in Boston, they were the ones being critical. The Red Sox, it wasn’t me.

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:43

Personally bets is what it is. And

Luke Jones  01:47

again, it certainly helps if you’re playing. You’ve already played the Oakland Athletics and the angels for what six? Six of those first 10

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:54

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Royals in the pirates? Sure,

Luke Jones  01:57

sure about but look, give them credit. And look, I don’t I don’t care about 10 games compared to what the overall expectations are gonna be. But in those 10 games, Red Sox have pitched really, really well. I mean, that’s what really stands out. I mean, seven and three through their firsthand, I mean, everyone’s gonna have a stretch other than maybe Oakland, where they win seven of 10. Right? It’s a start a year and even Oakland will have that at some point. You know, as I say that, and Jess,

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:21

looks like they might never win again, too. So but

Luke Jones  02:23

yeah, but the point is, when you look at the win loss record early on, I mean, that’s well and good. But look at the overall body of work, look at the run, scored, look at the runs allowed and the thing that stands out in this division, perhaps more than anything. We’ve talked about the Orioles, the Orioles overall have pitched well so far, even with some of the questions about the bullpen, Coach Irvin at the back of the rotation, they pitch Well, Red Sox have pitched even better than that. And they’ve scored runs. sure they’ve scored, they’ve hit the ball. But they’ve really, really pitched well. And that’s really what stands out. When you look at a team that has a plus 26 Run differential for through the first 10 games. They’ve they pitched extremely well. So Will that continue? I’m skeptical, but to this point, they’ve been one of the better teams in the American League and a second place in the American League East as we begin a new week. So certainly when they get Orioles are up at Fenway Park, I mean, they’ve got to start swinging the bats. And this isn’t necessarily you know, it might be the right ballpark, but might not be the right pitchers and the right staff they’re going to face at the moment with the way that they’ve pitched so early on, you never really know. And I will say this, for as much as people were dismissing the Red Sox chances. I mean, I think back over the last 10 to 15 years, there have been a couple of those red sox teams that ended up either winning a World Series or being really really good that didn’t necessarily have those really high expectations going into a season a

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Nestor J. Aparicio  03:55

DNA as a franchise for 15 years that even in the bad years where they’re drinking beer and eating fried chicken in the clubhouse with dairy Tito Francona that they won World Series since then, literally,

Luke Jones  04:07

they have and like I said, I mean some of those years were not necessarily the year that going into it everyone thought they were going to be great. So again, it’s 10 games good bad in between no one should be drawing too many conclusions but they’re off to a good start.

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:20

That you have looks a little bit like the Boston Braves to me just a little bit I just say it’s not

Luke Jones  04:24

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it’s it’s a Baltimore elite giants eagerly cap. You know, it was a giveaway at the Orioles years. So yeah, probably six, seven years ago at this point. But yeah, it does look a little bit like that. I’ll acknowledge that. But with the Red Sox made their pitch Well, I mean, it’s that simple. If you pitch well, you play relatively clean defense and you get some timely hitting which they’ve also scored runs at a at a good rate, then yeah, you’re gonna win seven out of 10. And you’re going to be in a position where you’re winning baseball games, but No, they’ve certainly benefited from a softer schedule from the standpoint of I Don’t think the angels even though the angels record isn’t terrible, but I don’t think they’re going to be very good. And I certainly don’t think Oakland’s gonna be very good. But hey, take care of the games on your schedule. We thought the Orioles schedule was really soft. And maybe those teams are good or maybe the Orioles just start playing as well as they need to be planned. But certainly going to be a challenge over these three games. Good news is Corbin burns going. Grayson Rodriguez going in that series. So you have those two guys going right off the bat, you should have a really good chance of winning two out of three, but certainly the bats need to wake up as they finish off this road trip at Fenway. Well, we’re gonna get

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:37

better weather like moving in here this week, I guess. You know, my wife is up in New Hampshire and New England right now. It’s always 20 degrees cooler. Supposed to be like really nice here. We get back here over the weekend. The cold weather part of baseball, it’s only April 8, they used to have opening days. You know, April 8, April 9, April 10. They jack this thing back in the march. And the first week is slopping around. It was snowing the other day in Pittsburgh for crying out loud. There’s a point in all of this where you know, if you expect the arms to be ahead or the bats to be ahead, the bats are usually ahead in spring training because those guys are working. Pitchers can’t stretch it out. But we are seeing guys, by the time they get up here go 567 innings, no problem. It hasn’t been like that at all. Because these guys are professionals and they start throwing in January, but the cold weather and the weirdness of all of it over the week. It just it’s been an awkward start in that way. And that’s why I see people getting all up in arms about Yeah, blowing a game on Sunday 162 games. I am extremely patient about this with me on Memorial Day is what I said Memorial Day, let me know if there one game over 500 On Memorial Day, some has gone really terribly wrong. Yeah.

Luke Jones  06:46

But even that I mean, even Memorial Day, if it’s not looking fantastic. It’s still a lot of season left at that point. I mean, truth be told, I mean, you know, it’s the ebbs and flows of a baseball season. You win five out of nine at any other point in the season. People kind of shrug their shoulders. Right? Yeah, it’s not it’s you’re not at your best, but you’re certainly not at your worst. And then I think most people are grounded with that thought. But the loud, you know, the vocal minority, whether it’s back in the day, it was always the individuals who called into sports talk radio first. Now it’s Twitter or Facebook, whatever it might be. But, I mean, they’ve they’ve got to play better. There’s no doubt about that. But you mentioned the weather and it’s not an excuse for the Orioles specifically. It’s just weird things happen. I mean, you mentioned the snow on Friday. That wasn’t even snow. I think that was I think I’m saying this right. That was grotto I think which is basically hail when it’s cold out right. I mean, it’s you know that that was not even snow that you could see it was bouncing off the ground. You know, it’s not an excuse for the Orioles. It’s just same stuff

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:53

that was bouncing off Earl Campbell back in 78 A championship game nonetheless. I’m just Yeah, Pittsburgh Lord. Yeah,

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Luke Jones  08:00

exactly. Yeah, just it’s weird. It’s odd. It’s tough for anyone not the Orioles just anyone that you’re going to try to settle into a routine you’re, you’re in Florida for six weeks, and then you come to a climate where it’s cold or you’re getting a lot of rain as we saw during the Kansas City. It’s gonna

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:21

be loud here Thursday in Boston, by the way just ahead ahead of time. It’s supposed to rain Thursday in Boston, so they’re gonna play that game on the getaway. Yeah,

Luke Jones  08:29

well, or maybe they don’t because the Orioles come in for another series at Fenway. I mean, there’s the difference right there between last week’s scenario compared to the Royals so so we’ll see. But yeah, I mean, it’s it’s strange and some guys start off hot other guys don’t you know, when you have some question marks about your roster that can be magnified early on, or maybe it looks really good early on it, as we said about the the Red Sox, you know, so many questions for them. And they’re playing really good baseball early on. Well, that continue. I’m skeptical, but to this point, they played well. So we’re everyone’s trying to find out everyone’s trying to really see what they have. And I think that’s part of where Mike Elias is with the Orioles roster. We’ve talked a lot about the bullpen, we’ve talked about whether they’ll need another starting pitcher, depending on what happens with John means what happens with Kyle Bradish. You know, we certainly we’ve talked about the bats here early on not swinging at their best and and whether they were whether they were going to or not. We were always going to ponder changes to the active roster when you have the talent that you have at triple A Norfolk at this point. I mean, it’s inevitable. I mean, not just Jackson Holliday, but who else might be up here and contributing and who gets hurt, you know, who, who might get traded at some point in time. I mean, there’s so many different moving point, moving parts. And it’s tough to think about what a team is going to look like, in three weeks, let alone in three months or five months, you know, playing in October so, you know from that standpoint, They’re fine, right? I mean, that doesn’t mean that they’re flawless. But, you know, we’re trying to see what this thing looks like. And, you know, the weather does make things a little strange, you know, in terms of how some of these guys respond to playing in cold weather and, and all that. So, you know, it’s your Memorial Day statement is, you know, it’s true. I mean, it doesn’t mean we’re not going to talk about it. It doesn’t mean that you just give games away. Certainly doesn’t mean you want to start out Oh, and nine or something crazy like that. But yeah, when you’re fake closer

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:34

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blows a game and the guy you want to give $200 million to throws the ball into the dugout and Pittsburgh to cap a losing series in daylight when everybody’s watching. You know, people get a little reactionary and that’s all you know, I mean, you lose a series like that. Well, and

Luke Jones  10:51

but, look, I mean, I’m not remotely concerned about Connor Anderson, I mean, just period and the story like I’ve heard people talk about, you know, defensive short look, we saw all season last year as the year went on. And Jorge Mateo wasn’t hitting at all. And you saw what kind of defense Gunnar Henderson gives you at shortstop. I mean, my goodness, that kind of that kind of a bad at shortstop. I mean, I don’t need to tell Orioles fans what that means. I mean, having watched Cal Ripken a generation ago, and what that can mean for value of a team when a shortstop can give you that kind of offense. Yeah, I’ve heard people talk about gunner in the leadoff spot. Look, I’ll hear that. But when I hear people say they want to put Cedric Mullins back then like, have we seen Cedric Mullins hit over the course of the last going back to the second half of last season? You know, I I’m not saying gunner long term as the leadoff hitter. But well, the real

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:40

issue on the internet is call all these kids up and let’s play and we’re not playing our best players. So speak to that we’re not playing our best players, Mullins and A’s are no longer our best players.

Luke Jones  11:51

That’s to be TBD. Look, do I agree with that in a big picture sense? Yeah, I think that’s going to prove out to be the case. However, we also need to acknowledge as amazing as those numbers look at triple A right now. It’s triple A, that doesn’t mean that those guys are going to put up those numbers. Colton Couser is a great example of this. Of what we saw last year. Colton Couser look at the numbers he put up a triple way and look how he struggled and struggled big time last year to the point where the Orioles send them back down and I’m not picking on cows or you know I’m the cows or guy I’ve been talking about the fact that he should play more and Austin nation be automatically an everyday starter in left field and and Mullen should get some some time off his

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Nestor J. Aparicio  12:39

memorial day. You’re gonna look like Kreskin on this one. The way this one’s going, by the way. Well,

Luke Jones  12:43

we’ll see. I mean, we’ll see. And again, I don’t want to bury Austin. He’s either I mean, it’s got me at the all star team last year. Now let’s keep that in mind as well. But it’s not just as the holiday examples unique, right? Because the Orioles where they stand right now. Every day, you’re starting either Ramona Reyes or Jorge Mateo at an infield spot, right? Henderson is playing short. It’s either mountcastle or Hoan O’Hearn at first. And Jordan Westbrook has been playing second or third. So REISTER, Matteo are starting every day. So there’s a very easy. That’s an easy change, you can point to him. And again, we know what that’s about. Right? Whether it’s going to be holidays here in the next 10 days, or whether he’s here in May or whether he’s here in June, depending on how the Orioles are looking at that. Is there some merit to the idea of him playing second base and getting more reps and wanting to face left handed pitching. I don’t know how much left handed pitching. He’s gonna face of quality and triple A quality triple A pitching, guess what that’s usually in the majors really quickly. So I don’t know how much he’s gonna face there. But with these other guys, it’s not just as simple as just wanting to start DFA and people and start trading people and just clearing the deck. Not saying that we’re not going to get to that point at some point in time here. If you asked me back in October, I would have said, I probably would have wagered some money that one of Matteo and Aris would be gone at this point in time just because of where they were roster wise, I would have said that there’s probably a nonzero chance that they trade Santander or Hayes or Mullins because they have these guys that are seemingly ready to go at triple A but you also you don’t show much conviction as an organization. If you make roster decisions, and then you start making wholesale changes 10 games into the season. That’s if I would see that I would almost be more concerned about where the Orioles stand as an organization if they start changing

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:39

it David Rubenstein is on the phone that Mike Elias Yeah, I

Luke Jones  14:42

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mean like, right. I mean, again, holiday holidays, the exception because they’re very clearly as a spot there ready to go for him. Right. I mean, I think we all it’s a matter of when, but it is a little more complicated because of what we’re talking about here where, okay, Colton Couser is already here. And we’re already talking about whether he should be playing more than he should be playing less. So people want to start calling up Heston Karstadt, or Kyle stout, they can’t all play. So you are in a position where, you know, gotta let this play out. Again, Cedric Mullins was the 3030 guy a couple years ago, that doesn’t mean that he gets a free pass, you know, forever. That doesn’t mean that Austin Hayes gets a free pass. And just as the Everyday Guy, I mean, I think we’re already starting to see that that’s looking like that could be morphing into a platoon sooner than later with him and cows are in left field. But you’re also not going to just start jettison these guys from the roster, you know, especially after 10 games, you know, so that’s where it is, you know, I understand, believe me, I want to see some of these young guys too, you know, I mean, has the curse that doing what he’s doing at triple A, and we saw him have a cup of coffee last year, and the power is impressive. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean that you just start getting rid of people on the major league roster, because we’re talking about guys that are out of options, we’re talking about guys that have have had value still have value, even if the perfect trade isn’t manifesting today to make that move, but at the same time, yeah, Austin Hayes needs to start performing. There’s no doubt Cedric Mullins needs to perform with the bat, you know, we’re seeing it, you know, the defense looks great, as it typically does. But you can’t just have guys on the field solely for defense, you know, you need guys that can be well rounded players. And in the infield. I mean, to me, the guy guys that really are facing a lot of pressure are Reyes and Matteo. I mean, when you just look at the reality of it, and that’s not to say they’re both going to be gone. But, you know, if you’re truly wanting to put your best foot forward over the course of the entire season, it’s gonna be tough for me to see both those guys on the roster. Come September, come October. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:57

Matteo has a different value as a runner.

Luke Jones  17:00

He does, but at the same time, he’s got to get on base now to his credit, he’s he’s hit the ball pretty, you know, he’s been okay. You know, at the plate, a race has not been, and I love his versatility, I get it. And you know, same thing with him. You don’t want to just jettison a guy who won the gold club a couple years ago, at the same time, you got to hit, you’ve got to be able to get on base, you got to contribute offensively. And it’s been a struggle for him. So, you know, again, 10, week and a half into this thing. You’re not going to make wholesale changes, but at the same time,

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:33

we’re going to talk about who’s coming. And we should ever, and we’ve never ever, I mean, I’ve been on the air 32 years, we’ve never had been sitting around in April, talking about wholesale players at triple A 345. I mean, I just like saying with a side of mayo, I like saying that while he’s there. You know, these guys that we’ve taken note of, it reminds me of my childhood with my pop in the 70s where he would have the Sporting News and be looking at the Rochester stats in the sporting news, and you’d see dour, you’d see, you know, you’d see all these names Ripken, you know, Hugh Murray, you would see these guys be like, what are they coming up? What are they coming up? We haven’t had a whole lot of When are they coming up around here? In 32 years of baseball conversation around here. It’s usually one

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Luke Jones  18:23

guy at a time. Right? I mean, it’s usually, you know, I think back to when I was 10 years old, it was Jeffrey Hammonds, right. I mean, it’s usually

Nestor J. Aparicio  18:33

Keegan Akin. You talked about Dylan Bundy. When you and I have had a 15 year almost 16 year relationship on the air now, where there’s been a guy, you know, you’ve been talking about a guy but not like, anything other than rutschman. Or like that kind of player is different. But, you know, because all of these guys have been first round picks, because all of these guys have been talked about for a period of time, because the team has been spotlighted by winning 100 games now. And rutschman is turning on everybody’s lights about the system. Yeah. And the system’s real will. It’s like the solar eclipse we will not be having these conference. I mean, this isn’t normal for for organizations to have five guys backed up and triple A and if 101 games. Well,

Luke Jones  19:17

I just pulled up the Norfolk stats. And look, this is nine games. Again, this is a very small sample size but Jackson holiday as a 1095 o PS on base plus slugging percentage has been cursed that has a 1548 op ed. I mean, that’s that’s Babe Ruth stuff right there. I mean, that’s the curse that has 25 RBIs and nine games. I mean, this remember when Chris Davis had what was at 16 RBIs. The first four games of 2013 I mean, video games stuff, Kobe mayo, 1091 kind of Norby who we we barely even talk about, but he’s viable Major League infielder. Yeah, he has a 1205 Oh, PS cost hours 1253. He has 18 RBIs and six home runs. So you go down the list. stuff, guys. I mean, it’s just, you’re in awe of those numbers. Now, that doesn’t mean you call up those six guy, no one’s suggesting this with any level of seriousness doesn’t mean you’re gonna call up those six guys and get rid of six guys at the major league level. And those guys are all going to put up those numbers. In the major leagues. You know, we’ve also seen that we’ve seen Kyle stauer struggle, we’ve seen Colton Gallagher struggle, we saw Adley rutschman struggle his first month in the big leagues, Gunnar Henderson, his first couple months in the big leagues last year. So you know, there’s always that learning curve. But yeah, when you see that? I mean, it’s just it’s competition. And I think, you know, I, I talked about this with Austin Hayes in the clubhouse in Sarasota, the last week of spring training. Yeah, there is that sense. And I wasn’t talking to him individually, just because he’s struggling. But we were just talking about it in a general sense that there is some pressure, I think, when you just look at that and say, Hey, I’ve got to perform, you know, it’s not just, you know, the guys aren’t on scholarship indefinitely, indefinitely, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:59

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think there’s gonna grow with me, if you’re a ballplayer, you get up and you take your bats and, and you certainly examine them with coaches and video and all of that at this point. Couple guys talking on sports radio, you know, Hasan Molins, know what’s going on here. They know, they might wind up with the Detroit Tigers by the end of the year for all, you know, like the NC thing, but now castles don’t want this for two years. I mean, I would call it the Patrick Queen syndrome, right? You know, you want to play and go get paid, you go play for the Yankees or the Red Sox, if you’re good enough, right? But you’re probably not going to be here. And your agents probably telling you that too. And you’re, you realize that things are about to change. Now, whether you hang on and get a ring here or not. Got to be hidden better than Oh, 79 a week and a half into the season, man. Yeah,

Luke Jones  21:45

no question about it. And I’m glad you brought up Ryan mountcastle. Because I actually wanted to bring bring it up. I mean, at different points over the last couple years, we’ve talked about the long term viability of him on the roster, you know, with whether it’s not drawing walks, or last year really scuffling with the bat, I mean, remember, he had the bout of vertigo where he was on the injured list, you know, he came back and he performed at a pretty high level. Now I did have the late season shoulder issue that I think really hurt him down down the least not even the stretch. So it really was this last couple of weeks of the season. But there’s a perfect example of, we’re still dealing with small sample sizes. And just because someone’s struggling at one point in time doesn’t mean that we’re going to have a totally different conversation. Austin Hayes could go six for his next 11 at Fenway. And his average looks better and he hits a couple home runs. And we’re not talking so much about guys to curse that placing him right. So, again, you let that play out. But you know, mountcastle has been one of their best hitters early on. That still doesn’t make me change my mind of He’s not someone I identify right now that I’m giving a long term contract to, but in the meantime, sit and well, right. He’s been a big part of what they’ve done. offensively. He’s drawn some walks to his credit. So I mean, that’s, again ebbs and flows of the season. But it is there is competition. Yeah, right. I mean, you can have a bad two, three weeks to start the season. But that turns into six weeks, or that turns into two months, then, yeah, we’re gonna be having a different holidays

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:13

and Marlins are, at this point have almost three times the amount of at bats is Couser. That will change if cows are still batting 300. And they’re batting 100. Yeah,

Luke Jones  23:23

well, and we’ve talked about this, I mean, Santander is the one that’s in a contract here. But in the case of both Mullins and Hayes, I mean, these are guys that are going to be free agents after next season. So you’re even trying to thread that needle. And that’s why I’ve been so adamant talking about cows or not, because I’m 100% convinced and totally sure that he’s going to be a really good major league player. But I’ve seen what he’s done to this point in his professional career, understanding that he’s a rookie, understanding he has six years of club control, which is, especially the next few years is going to be very cost effective compared to those veteran players who are approaching free agency getting more and more expensive, but also and this is the part I care about more. I do wonder how high their ceiling is compared to the youngster. So yeah, we get into this question where we say okay, Cedric Mullins coming off of injuries last year, Austin Hays last two years, really good first half, not so good. Second half. Well, this

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Nestor J. Aparicio  24:26

is the Tampa model that that at bat for leftfielder. centerfield this time next year will be Couser. At league minimum, versus Mullins at 12 million or 14 million, whatever his number will be, right? Like, that’s the reality of the math of having 12,000 people in the stands and all and having empty seats and not having beer and like like that is the difference to me as to what you’re going to invest in and how you’re going to invest and whether you’re going to operate more like Tampa or more like the cardinal Those are the Tigers, or you know, I don’t know how they’re gonna operate. This is why I need to talk to the owner. This is why I need my immediate pass back. All of this needs to be examined and all of it. And I think I have the hardest time because the uniforms look the same. And Kevin Brown and sometimes like even Melanie Newman, who I listen to one Saturday, they all feel like they’re in hostage mode from the old ownership, the new ownership in the old ownership, there are going to be differences. And I don’t know how quick they are. I don’t know where David Rubenstein is on a daily basis. I know he’s not sitting in the warehouse with his feet up on the phone to the manager telling him who to play tonight. It’s not going to be that circumstance. But I’m examining all of this, because you’re just examining the baseball side to some degree and fans are like who’s taking the at bats tonight? I’m trying to examine the like, hole of the moon and say, What kind of franchise Are you going to be? Because in the, in the near short term for any of these players, I would agree with you with Mullins and Hayes. These are not guys we’re gonna give $150 million to and if that’s the case, right, and you have blue chip, first round draft picks you have are hitting 500 A triple A. It’s very obvious there’s a math part of this, but I don’t know what the bigger part of the math equation is, as far as what burns works out, are you really going to give him $180 million? Or I mean, I don’t know. But that kind of money for the three or four players, they’re going to go all in on. Those are the biggest decisions they’ll make above and beyond who’s coming out of the bullpen tonight. You know where that money goes? And how do they utilize that. And in the early going, you and I will be monitoring just the at bats of Hayes and Mullins the next 90 days to say, How many are they getting? And how many are going to be the cheaper at bats? Because I would agree with you. If they’re gonna play under the John Angelo’s umbrella. Everything you’re saying and we’re saying makes sense. I don’t know where that is in the Rubinstein umbrella. Yeah.

Luke Jones  26:57

And and I want to be clear, I look, the Orioles could have a $250 million payroll. And you’re still these are things that smart organizations are going to do if you have younger players that have a higher ceiling and you project to be better than what those guys and look at Hasan Mullins. I like? Look, we those are some of the few players, Major League players I was actually watching four or five years ago that were real major league players, right. But when we’re talking about the as low as the lows were for the rebuild, so we’re picking on them a little bit, but at the same time, that’s where they’re where they are the deepest as in terms of Major League ready talent, you do look at the outfield. And although we could make the same argument about a race Matteo I think I think it’s a much easier argument in the infield, you know, with with a reason, Matteo than it is for Hayes and Mullins who have both been to an all star game, for example. But I don’t care what the payroll is, I don’t care who the owner is going to be. If you have younger, cheaper and guys, you project to be better coming from triple A. It’s not a decision, you’re not just going to give guys long term contracts just for the sake of doing it. It’s what happened with Chris Davis, right? They gave Chris Davis 100 $70 million. And that was a disaster. So when you do get those contracts out, and look, I’m hoping those contracts will be there for a Gunnar Henderson or an Adley rutschman Or a Jackson holiday or a Grayson Rodriguez, maybe you know what we’ll see it, you know, it’s a little different with a pitcher, obviously. But you know it at the same time, you’ve got to identify the right ones, and you’ve got to thread the needle. And this is where I think there’s a challenge for the organization in terms of you have these known commodities. And guys that have performed at a certain level and guys that have performed at a high level, you know what I don’t want to pick on Mullins and Hayes because of how they’re performing this week, you know, the first week in April of 2024. They have a body of work, but at the same time. How do you balance wanting to win games at the major league level which obviously the Orioles want to do, how do you balance winning in 2024, while also acknowledging you have all of this great young talent that is seemingly ready to go at triple A? How do you thread the needle in terms of balancing those two objectives which is winning today and winning tomorrow and winning next week and winning next month? And also trying to find out about Colton Couser or Heston Karstadt when he arrives or if Connor Norby gets a chance at some point certainly Jackson holiday again to me that’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:35

why like the mayo isn’t and nor B’s when they’re losing games in Pittsburgh because they don’t have a bullpen. Some of those guys need to be farmed out to get majorly talent here. If you’re not ever going to bring them up and they’re not going to have a roll and they would have value to get you your next Danny coulomb or whatever you whatever you’re going to need to make this happen. That is the weight of all of their analysis is to say These guys that triple A, they’re not. They’re not helping us at the big leagues when we’re losing ballgames up here because of deficiencies we have in other areas. And that would be everything about their pitching at this point, they they need some help. Or

Luke Jones  30:13

8

it’s not just You’re right about that. Or it’s, you might have a match with a team that has, I don’t want to say an extra reliever because it sounds weird saying that because you can never have too much pitching, right? I mean, team, the team, we you hear that all the time. But it might not just necessarily be a prospect it might be maybe a team has a need for an outfielder and Austin Hays is that guy you send with a couple of prospects to go get on a ride. I mean, whether it’s a starter reliever, whatever it is, so it can be a combination of those things. It can be some prospects and a veteran that

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:47

you don’t well they will be much more likely to go get a starting pitcher if they realize means and Bradish aren’t going to happen for them. Right well and

Luke Jones  30:55

and that’s part of what Yeah, I mean, that’s where that this is a challenge and we talked about it at the time. I mean, the guy that I’ve talked about a lot that you know that I really envisioned being a part of their potential back end of their bullpen was Tyler wells teller Wells is their number three starter right now and you know, it’s at best it’s been choppy, you know, it wasn’t very good over the weekend. But I think he’s someone that in a big picture sense of everyone’s healthy again, that’s a big if I think he’s the kind of guy that could be an eighth inning or even a closer type for you. You know, when that’s why that was one of the reasons not just getting Corbin burns, but it was the thought of slotting everyone else down you know Kyle Braddock is your number two starter Grayson Rodriguez is your number three starter then John means big factors in there. Dean Kramer presumably is your number five star those fantasies

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:45

we had back when the Ravens were hosting the AFC Championship gaming, they Delve for burns, the deep depth and all that. And these in some of these names that were penciled in number two beds. So we got the race around. And we’ve had to move other guys up the board, right. And even, you know Kramer’s in is to all of us. But I don’t Some days he looks like a one somedays look. He looks like it’s

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Luke Jones  32:08

I mean, maybe not a 10. But it looks like a five, right? He looks like Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean,

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:12

that’s just like a five every time. But but this is, this

Luke Jones  32:16

is how it works, though. When you have pitcher injuries. I mean, the Yankees don’t have Gerrit Cole right now. You know, the Braves lost Spencer Strider. And that looks doesn’t look promising at all, you know, Derrick Cole is out at least the first, what six weeks or whatever it is. I mean, that that sounds very Bradish like,

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:33

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right 101 games last year, and think about Bradish and think about Batista and their role. And that 101 winds, and you tell me, I’ll give you burns and all that. But then you look at the rest of the rotation and what the rest of them need to be and what they need to look like. You know, I’m not on Orange Alert around here or anything. But I do think on a night by night basis, their pitching is not as good as we thought it was for a minute. Back in January. You know, now that we’re seeing it, we’re like, okay, pitching is not nearly and you said this all spring training. You were unhappy with most of it most of the time, especially with radishes arm fell off early we day one, and we’re like, okay, you take him out. Now you’re playing Jenga, you know, now you’re, you’ve got the house of cards where Oh, Kenosha is going to come in and close the game on a Sunday in Pittsburgh curious.

Luke Jones  33:25

Well, let me be clear, the way you described it. I just want to push back a little bit. When I say I was unhappy about it doesn’t mean I think it was bad. It meant there could still stand to be improvement needs to be like meant to be good enough.

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:39

It wouldn’t be exactly and it’s

Luke Jones  33:41

more through that lens because again, it goes back to what I said in a previous segment I said, Okay, admirable how the Orioles bullpen navigated the September last year without Felix Batista doing that for six months, though, that is a different conversation or

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Nestor J. Aparicio  33:55

$10 million band aid on it that wasn’t available Sunday. Well, well,

Luke Jones  33:59

but that’s that’s gonna be the case for anyone right? Mariano Rivera had his days where he wasn’t available. I mean, but that’s why I said you need you need to meet a minimum of four guys that you can trust to pitch in a close a one run game in the eighth or ninth inning. When I go back to the Orioles of the buck era bullpen. Arguably their bet their biggest strength year in and year out on that team. You had Zach Britton, you had Darren O’Day Demo Day was the anchor, because they had different closers over that time, but Demo Day was the guy that you could count on. He’s gonna pitch the eighth inning, he’s gonna pitch the eighth inning a lot. He’s gonna pitch at a high level. But you

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:34

could bring him in with two outs in the seventh and he might be able to get you out of it still gets to the eighth. Exactly.

Luke Jones  34:38

8

And he closed on occasion, you know, went on days when Zach Britton or Jim Johnson wasn’t available. I mean, so you but you had those two guys, you had Brad Brock, you had Andrew Miller, you know, you had Michael Gibbons at and again, I’m not saying you had all those guys at the same time, but the point is, they all kind of fit into that same category where you had four guys that you could trust Now, that doesn’t mean that Michael Gibbons trying to close a game on occasion was the same thing as Zack Britton. I’m not saying that all four of them are all star relievers, but there’s a certain threshold where you need to have that and that’s why I kept saying last year down the stretch before Batista got hurt, and I wasn’t the only one everyone was saying this, that it couldn’t just be canola and Batista every single night. So that’s where the Orientals find themselves right now where, okay, you have Kimbrough. I’m not down on Craig Kimbrel. But he’s not going to be Felix Batista, even if Craig Kimbrel has an all star first half, he’s not going to be Felix Batista for you, I mean, Felix Batista had a historic he was on his way to a stock historic season last year still kind of had it even missing the last five weeks or so. But you know, Cano. Okie was phenomenal in the first half last year. And he wasn’t bad in the second half. But it was just a little more that he became, oh, he’s a good seventh and eighth inning pitcher for you. But, you know, you look beyond that. Danny coulomb, by the way, haven’t even mentioned that. I mean, his his work he did over the weekend. I mean, eighth inning on Saturday or not eighth inning, but Saturday, his work that he did, you know, but is he going to do that over the course of a full six months like he did last year? I mean, relief pitching is just unpredictable. It really is. And that’s why you need as much of it as possible because I was even someone had done I think there was a study I read that was talking about just relief pitching from year to year is actually a book I was reading by Keith law and was just talking about relievers, and long term deals and you know, a guy has a really good year but then you look at the next year, you know, what are the odds of that pitcher duplicating that and typically, it’s not great, I mean for every Mariano Rivera, Craig Kimbrel you hope Felix Batista You know guys that do it year in and year out for a long time. There are so many guys that are you know, a flash in the pan that they have a great season and then someone gives them money that following offseason and then they are not very good that the year after that. So again, you need as much as possible. But where the Orioles stand right now with their pitching, and specifically with the bullpen, you know, they they’ve got a miss they need some guys can miss a few more bats. And you need one or two guys to step up. And on those days when Kimbrel is down, or Cano is down, you need to have a mike Bellman and I’m just saying what Mike down and what they’re trying to do with him. Mike balance got to come in and pitch the eighth inning for you. And it’s got to be able to get out. And you know, if it’s till intake, you know, and and hopefully he’s back to being healthy and looking like the guy who was a couple years ago, which was helpful. He was their third best reliever in 2022. But he missed all of last year with an elbow issue. But Dylan Tate might have to pitch the eighth inning or the ninth inning on occasion. So you can’t just throw the same two guys night in and night out. And or, and this goes back to what I you know, we joked about for three months last year, your offense needs to score some more runs and not be in one run games all the time. Right. So hey, they did that against the angels the first two games of the season. And they won. But we’ve seen it here. You know, and we saw it in Pittsburgh where they didn’t score runs on Saturday and Sunday, to a degree that you’d like to see. And yeah, it’s more of a struggle than so other team tries to. I’m not what I’m saying here isn’t sounding the alarm. It’s not pushing the panic button. It’s just speaking, candidly with where I think this team is right now, which is I think they’re a high end bullpen guy, short of feeling good about that group. And on the rotation side and look, this is the raise dealt with. I mean, look at what the raise loss last year in the rotation injury wise. I mean, it’s part of it, you know, you’re gonna lose some people. I mean, that’s just how this works. But feel great about burns. feel great about Grayson Rodriguez, feel good about Dean Kramer, you’re Tyler wells, we’ll see. You know, Korovin we’ll see. But you’re hoping because John means is making starts at triple A Norfolk, you’re hoping means his return is not imminent, but maybe the next two weeks, three weeks, you know, maybe you get John means back, and hopefully he can settle into number three, number four starter spot, something like that. And you know what, we’ll see how Kyle Bradish continues to progress and Sarasota. So, you know, the, these pitching issues are not exclusive to the Orioles. Right? I mean, this isn’t? It’s not as though all the other contenders in the American League are sitting there saying Oh, our pitching is fine. You know, we couldn’t use another starter. Another bullpen arm. No, thanks. We’re good. No one says that everyone needs more pitching, right? No, I mean, that’s just how this works. So you know where the Orioles stand right now on. I still feel really good about this club. But could they stand to make some improvement? Yeah. And I think that’s what’s going to be interesting as we get deeper into the season, and we’re evaluating During this talent at triple A Norfolk evaluating incumbents on the roster, seeing what moves you can potentially make to add another bullpen arm, see where you are with Bradish and means and hopefully keep everyone else healthy, right? I mean, that’s part of this as well. You don’t want another pitcher to wake up with a cranky elbow. You know, that’s the Braves are dealing with that right now with Strider. So, you know, it’s just, that’s this is the challenge of navigating a six month season, you know, what things how things look right now, doesn’t mean it’s gonna look that way two weeks from now or two months from now or five months from now. So in the meantime, Oreos are off to a perfectly fine start, you know, they lost the series, you know, it’s not the end of the world. But you know, some of these questions that we had over the course of the offseason, surprise surprise 10 games in I still have those same questions. I haven’t had any answers which Why would there be answers nine or 10 games into the season.

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:56

Luke Jones is here he will be there will be at Camden Yards on Friday. We will be at fadeless together on Friday from two of the five talking Oriole baseball. Luke will do the first hour we’ll be having some Baltimore positive I will have some Maryland lottery scratch offs to give away hopefully because Batman’s by Friday, if I get in touch with Ross and stop down at the Maryland lottery facility, and Macomb rewards is actually in my shot. It’s actually over the shoulder right here. There’s Maryland lottery. We’re also going to be Costas on Tuesday to baseball. I just gotta give you this for i We pumped on baseball here. I just looked down on my timeline. Buster Olney, who’s at the top of my time line because Oriole fans fight with them all the time. It’s great. And I you know Boston was one of the first guests I ever had in my studio when he covered the Baltimore blast game in Baltimore as a San Diego Sockers reporter, and I had almost taken a job at the San Diego Union Tribune. He came into my studio did like a blast segment two years laters covering the Orioles. So I’ve known Buster, since he covered indoor soccer. So Buster just retweeted Henry Aaron 715 career Homer is called by Vin Scully 50 years ago today. Not my first baseball memory because I went to Memorial Stadium in 73. I do remember seeing Louis Aparicio play for real. I do remember going to play off game Sunday. I remember Pete Rose and Bud Harrelson. That was the 73 thing. I remember Ralston Stob, in this in the World Series, but my first real baseball memory was 50 years ago today, I completely remember my dad having the game on NBC. I completely remember sitting in the living room and watching al Downing and the ball going over the fence and being caught in the bullpen, full County and the launch pad and all that stuff. So 50 years ago, today, I had a baseball memory with Hank Aaron, man, does that make you feel old that you know me?

Luke Jones  42:43

That’s awesome. Well, I mean, I think that I mean, that was nine years before I was born. But now it’s 50 years. 40 some years after that. Right. So yeah, I mean, there’s no question. I mean, it’s funny you mentioned that I thought, what Blonko for the Astros, you know, throws a no hitter. What he had six no hit innings or five no hit innings for in his second start. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:06

mean, make up Vandermeer. Yeah, exactly. I

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Luke Jones  43:08

mean, but that’s why we love baseball, right? All the issues. And baseball has its issues. I mean, all the sports do to varying degrees, but baseball has its issues. We’ve talked about that. We’ll continue to talk about it. Health of pitchers being near the top of the list for me, I mean, that the lack of star pitchers go look at the Al era leaders from a year ago and see how many of those guys are hurt right now. I mean, it’s just, it’s striking. It’s it’s really unsettling, quite frankly, that said, Yeah, whether it’s the anniversary of seven 715. Whether it’s talking about what ronelle bloco is doing for the Astros and Johnny Vandermeer comparisons because baseball fans know that right back to back no hitters. I mean, it’s the sport more than any other that really cherishes

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:54

56 games in a row never happened. Trust me, that’s not gonna happen. Yeah, exactly. 2630 2632 right. 2131 To 2632 I

Luke Jones  44:03

mean, you know, we, but we, we value that, right? I mean, we love that history of the game. And that’s where baseball, like the NFL is king by a lot. Not even close, every other sports chasing it. NFL is tops in, in this country and the NFL offseason is second, as a lot of people point out. But I mean, the history of the game, and those moments, those feats, the record book, that’s why people were so frustrated and disenchanted and disillusioned by the steroid era, because of what it did to the record book. But yeah, you hear something like that. And to your point, whether it was a long time ago, and it makes you feel old, or whether it’s seeing some new pitcher do something really exciting for an Astros team that’s really struggling otherwise early on this season. It’s why I love baseball. It’s why I’ll never give up on it. Even if I am frustrated with the state of the sport at times.

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:57

Luke Johnson will join us on Friday. At fade please come on down say hello get a lottery ticket get a crab cake maybe have a little shrimp salad and some of that delicious mac and cheese ice cold beer at fadeless as well in the brand new spacious luxurious new Lexington market so I’ve been waiting to say that for a long time. So come on by it’s a half a block closer to the ballpark of three blocks in the ballpark. Come on by get a crab cake and appear We’ll be live from two to five. Let somebody kicks the internet knocks us off the air. If I gotta go tinkle trying to figure out how to make three hours live and not have a good bathroom situation with sprinting, but we’re gonna figure it all out. Like 55 We are doing a 25 year documentary actually. It’s a 40 year documentary of my media career. Greg Landry came to me last year talking documentaries. I’ve put a lot of time into it. Greg has put a lot of love into it. A couple of weeks now it will be out and oops even in it. That’s how good it is. I am Nestor. We are WNS TA and 57 Etown, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore positive