Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Ravens offensive coordinator position and the future for head coach John Harbaugh and an offense with many question marks for a new play caller.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
lamar jackson, ravens, john harbaugh, quarterback, point, hire, play, year, talking, wide receivers, lamar, oc, gig, offensive coordinator, baltimore, super bowl, head coach, greg, coordinator, cap
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
What about W en s, t, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive still broadcasting in High Definition mono sound that it am 1570. It Towson, we hope you will set a place on your dial for us. Certainly now that football season is winding down, but doesn’t ever really wind down the games just stop. This is the time for pay as opposed to time for play. Luke Jones joins us now on the eve of all of the madness of offensive coordinator candidates coming in and who’s going to be the next coach, what’s gonna happen to the quarterback? Where’s the cap space, oh, they have this combine thing coming up. And all of that, in addition to the fact that there’s a Super Bowl games, couple hours of football left, but they don’t have to play again until September the 10th, Luke Jones, and between now and then it is the business of the business of football, which, to your point this sometimes people don’t pay as much attention to this. But this is certainly a really, really busy busy time out the castle, let alone as to what’s going on with John Harbaugh and picking coaches. Yeah, no question
Luke Jones 01:07
about it. I mean, you just said the Ravens won’t play another meaningful game until September. And the biggest question that comes to mind for me immediately is just how different will that team look? Come Come September. I mean, yeah, we can talk about the offensive coordinator. But we know that it begins with Lamar Jackson, and what’s going to happen on that front? Is it going to be the tag? Do they work out a long term deal? After two years of often on negotiating? Is there a trade? I mean, who knows at this point? I mean, I I’ve said for a while now that I’m expecting anything that could happen, right. I mean, that’s where you kind of are with this thing. In the meantime, we’ve seen what at this point is becoming pretty apparent. The most exhaustive, offensive coordinator search they’ve had since Gary Kubiak. Right. I mean, I think you kind of look at how it played out. When Kubiak left to become the head coach in Denver. They hired Marc Marc Trestman. Very quickly, and that ended up being dubious, right. It
Nestor Aparicio 02:07
wasn’t a good fit. But that was a newer brother. Right? Yeah, right. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. I
Luke Jones 02:11
mean, that’s that’s kind of what happened. I mean, John Harbaugh would probably take issue with describing it quite that simply. But let’s face it, they moved quickly. And they hired him. That that was not an exhaustive search where they quote Castile, you know that they were casting a wide net. So every every coordinator since then, I mean, it was morning wig interim, then they took that interim tag off of him. Greg Roman was on staff and they promoted him. So now we’re seeing the Ravens cast a very wide net, John Harbaugh has followed through on that, you know, we have heard reported names, you know, some of the names more recently, Todd Monken, the offensive coordinator at Georgia, and you see what kind of success the Bulldogs had on their way to a national championship. He also has NFL experience. Let’s be clear about that. And the interesting name over the weekend, and we’ll see where this leads in in terms of how much interest there is and how it goes because Kansas City is still playing but Eric be enemy, which would be interesting in terms of, from his perspective, a lateral move. But there’s been so much conjecture from clearly the NFL is hiring process minority candidates down to just how much influence and how much control has the enemy had in that Kansas City offense. And we know Andy Reid, is the offensive genius that he is. So if you’re the enemy, whether we’re talking the Ravens or any team he could potentially be linked to know is Has he had some thoughts of going somewhere else and distinguishing himself. If he comes to Baltimore, John Harbaugh is not an offensive mastermind, you know, it’s so you know, you hear names like that Not saying that he’s going to be the guy or that he’s the favorite. But it’s very clear, the ravens are searching far and wide here. We’ll see who they ultimately hire. But this has gone quite differently from replacing wink Martindale a year ago when it became evident pretty quickly that Mike McDonald was, if not at the top of the list of near the top of the list from from Jump Street, and they moved quickly. And they hired him as the new DC within a week after Winco was let go or, quote, mutually parted ways. So it’s been interesting to see that I think
Nestor Aparicio 04:25
this is where that Rooney Rule issue really becomes when you have your eye or heart set on someone, whomever that person is, and you’re doing all in the family, right, like in general, and that’s been John’s, you know, most of what John’s done has been all of the family most of it and I think especially as he’s gotten older or maybe gotten burned going outside the family, right, like not knowing people well to your point. Other people that they have known well, but McDonald was looking inside guy in the same way that Bella checks always bring it back, Josh McDaniels and and then there’s Dean PISA just leaving are never going to come back. And I guess in the case of Vic Fangio and, you know, and John Harbaugh or even Rex Ryan and John hardball, where the parting of the ways is forever. Part of this is relationship based in the industry. You mentioned, Todd Monken being back and forth. And that’s weird to when guys go to college, that don’t a whole lot of guys that that do that they go back and forth and straddle that more lately, but but this is an important pick, right? Like for Eric, for Steve, for John, that what this is going to look like when you’re not going to the playoffs and win and playoff games, you’re not the favorite, you’re seeing how good these other teams are, and how good these other offenses are, and how good their passing games are, and you know where you are. And there’s all of this purple plumes of smoke about what’s really going to happen with Lamar Jackson. And whether if you take this gig, you’re gonna Zig or zag. And I don’t know that they can answer that question for any pod Mongkut, or any prospective candidate out there.
Luke Jones 06:03
Yeah. And I mean, I wrote from the moment that they let go of Greg Roman, which was anticipated I think we saw the writing on the wall for weeks, if not months, with the way that the season went after what had been a really hot start throwing the football in the month of September. And we know, it went sideways long before Lamar Jackson even got hurt in that regard. So it is complicated, because if you are and I just mentioned, Eric, the enemy just as an example, right, I mean, he’s in a unique position, you know that Kansas City’s had so much success. He’s been named as a head coach and candidate for how many years he’s gone on interviews. And again, there’s been so much conjecture, what’s truth, what’s hearsay as far as that scenario, but the fact that it’s even being talked about, and it’s not as though the Ravens were the only team that that have been mentioned it, there’s been some, at least a little bit of smoke as far as the idea of him making a lateral move elsewhere to try to distinguish himself, I guess, to get out of Andy Reid shadow so to speak. But if your daily
Nestor Aparicio 07:02
moves, you’re making less you go up like wink Martindale, you get fired to get the next gig. If you’re Greg Roman, you’re going to be an OC somewhere. It’s a lateral immunex. That’s the nature of that position, until you get tapped on the shoulder and get the gig. And then you get the gig. And you’re in Detroit, you’re Owen 16. And you’re Jim Schwartz. And the next thing you know, you’re a defensive coordinator again, and happy to be a well compensated for million dollar a year defensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns, right, like so it’s still a really big job. And it’s a big, big job.
Luke Jones 07:31
It is, but even in the case of the enemy, where you’re talking about what would be a unique situation where he would make a lateral move, right? I mean, he’s been this hotshot coordinator on the shortlist, at least from a perception standpoint. And again, what his exactly is gone on there. I don’t know, I’m not privy to that out in Kansas City. But if you’re him, and if you’re the ravens, potentially pursuing him, and again, we’re just going off of the report over the weekend. You’re looking at the situation if you’re him and you’re saying, okay, I can go to Baltimore, I’ll, I’ll be the guy there. I mean, John Harbaugh is not this former offensive coordinator, brilliant play caller like Andy Reid. So it’d be my offense there, right. I mean, at least in terms of me calling plays and, and laying out the game plan every week and whatnot. But it’s great to say that net looks good on paper, if you have Lamar Jackson is your quarterback. But if you don’t know that, that complicates things. That’s not to say the Ravens can’t hire a quality person as their offense coordinator. But we can’t sit here and keep acting like Lamar Jackson’s uncertain, short term and long term status. Is it going to be a factor here? It absolutely is that does. Now, I will also say this. And this is why I think the ravens are still in a good position to hire a quality person, as I say to you all the time. As as much as I agree with your point that they better get this right, because you kind of look at where they are, from an organizational standpoint, not just with their quarterback right now. But there’s always more than one right hire, you know, there’s more than one person that you can hire. That would be good for you. Yeah. And there’s a there’s a wide range of outcomes, right? You can hire the best coordinator ever, or you can hire someone that’s a total disaster. And, and there’s a wide range in between those two extremes. But if you are, John, if you are Steve, Ashanti and Eric Koston, just anyone that’s involved in this hiring process. Behind it, once you get to a certain point down the road where you’re talking job, right, you’re talking in terms of, we like what we see we like what we’ve heard out of you. We’d like the work that you’ve done, and this team or this city or this school, whatever it is. We understand that there’s not 100% certainty with Lamar Jackson status right now. However, he’s at the very least a very valuable asset. And if it does come down to the fact that at some point, whether it’s later this spring, or even if it’s next year, and he plays on the tape ag for a year, we feel very strongly that we’re going to get some amazing assets in return if we do have to train him. So you sell to an OC that, even if it’s not Lamar Jackson, and again, however you want to lay that out, chances are you’re gonna be getting multiple first round picks. And you can hand pick who your young quarterback is going to be that you draft so. But it still complicates things. I mean, it does. And that’s again, that doesn’t mean the Ravens can’t hire a high quality offensive coordinator. But you know, it’s a different animal when you’re talking about as talented as Lamar is. He’s not under contract, and you haven’t been able to work out a long term deal. And, okay, you can tag them. But what does that mean? He’s not going to show up at OTAs. He’s not that until he signs that tender. He’s under no obligation contractually to show up for mandatory minicamp or training camp,
Nestor Aparicio 10:53
which is your new
Luke Jones 10:54
offensive coordinator. Right. Right. Exactly. And again, we don’t know how Lamar would handle that in the same way. I mean, some guys who are tagged, they sign their tag and they play. I mean, we we’ve seen that here in Baltimore with, you know, Terrell Suggs, but at the same time, some guys will hold outs in the case of labor, jandola Pittsburgh set out an entire season. I don’t know how Lamar is going to handle it, if it comes to that. But if you’re the the OC candidate, you’re certainly thinking about that. Because if it’s not Lamar Jackson, then who is it? So that’s why and that’s I don’t think that’s necessarily the reason why this process has went even say it’s been dragging, because it’s only been, it’s been less than two weeks. Since we don’t have
Nestor Aparicio 11:39
quarterbacks in the season. Why are you in a hurry? I mean, you’re in a hurry to you don’t lose somebody you want. But I would just say like, I don’t know that there’s any huge rush as to whether it’s February 1, or February 18. As to how this plays out for them making this higher. And I keep going back to this is really important. Higher, right, like just any general, who the fans are going to hate next, it was Matt Kavanaugh, then it was cam Cameron and it was Greg, I’ve lived through and been on radio through all the firings and the offensive coordinator bring on again, you don’t I mean, this will be the next one. But but there is a point where, you know, John’s at the top of this, and we will talk a lot about I talked to John is sort of the king or the emperor or head coach for life or whatever. But you know, this is to your point, they’re going outside the organization, it smells more like a Steve Jobs search than a John job search in regard to the scope and the magnitude and where they need to be and the Rooney rule and all the things that they need to do. I would preach caution here, right to your point after Marc Trestman. And after mistakes made, and also knowing the other side’s gonna have caution too. Because this is not there’s no certainty in this game.
Luke Jones 12:58
Sure. I mean, you can talk all you want about the overall stability of the organization. And that’s, that’s still a factor. And that’s still something that is very attractive, if you’re a coordinator looking at this job, you know, in a in a big picture sense. But they’ve got to get this higher, right, because I mean, whether Lamar Jackson’s continuing to be the quarterback here in Baltimore or not, you need to have you need to get this right. You need to have we’ve seen, I mean, it’s it’s too important. I mean, you can’t just win on defense, right? I mean, as much as you feel good about the current state of the Ravens defense, they’ve got to fix their offense and more specifically, their passing game and how do you do that? And, you know, whether Lamar Jackson’s involved in that, or you’re bringing in a bridge quarterback, or you’re drafting a quarterback in April, I mean, again, all the different possibilities. You lay out a better wide
Nestor Aparicio 13:50
receivers better be a part of it, if you want to throw the football, right.
Luke Jones 13:54
But one point I didn’t want to make Can you just set this I mean, ultimately, the buck stops with John Harbaugh with his coaching staff, right. I mean, that’s how it works. And I don’t say this. I think cautionary tale would be too strong. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Philadelphia Eagles are back in the Super Bowl. Five years after they won a Super Bowl with Doug Peterson as their head coach, whom they have since fired. And look, John Harbaugh has a longer tenure than Doug Peterson had in Philly. But the overall point is, the Eagles are an example of they they decided to start over and they decided to start over not terribly long after winning a Super Bowl now.
Nestor Aparicio 14:32
And they had Chip Kelly, which was disastrous right. And a long history of not winning with Andy Reid, right. This ownership group,
Luke Jones 14:39
but um, I guess my point is just talking about what Doug Peterson I mean, it’s not as though he just didn’t give them just a decade and look, the bottom fell out in Philadelphia I mean, Carson Wentz. It was clear and it’s been evident since he’s left Philadelphia that his career completely went sideways. Doug Peterson has since landed on his feet and had a nice job nice year with Jacksonville But, you know, the overall point there is, Philadelphia is back in the Super Bowl with five years later with a different head coach, and a different quarterback. I mean, it’s just, you know, things can change. And that’s not to, you know, I think it’s just a reminder here that how important this needs to be. Because if you don’t, if John Harbaugh doesn’t hire the right OC, and this offense, whether it’s Lamar staying or whether it’s starting over and you know, whatever it is, and it is not going in the right direction, at some point, the buck has to stop with John Harbaugh, then and now we’re talking about the Ravens haven’t been to an AFC Championship in a decade. I mean, that’s just that’s a fact. Now, that’s a long time. I mean, you know, when you can say the same thing about Pittsburgh and Mike Tomlin, and that’s not me saying that, you know, that he’s going to get fired. But at some point in time you look at this thing and say, Is this moving in the right direction? Or are we just kind of in a holding pattern here where we’ll
Nestor Aparicio 15:58
start with a $50 million quarterback right, like, Sure. So franchises have that with quarterbacks and with coaches, literally, right, right.
Luke Jones 16:04
Right. So I mean, and that’s the big thing. I mean, I mean, five years ago, we were talking about John, Harbaugh’s future, right. I mean, we were talking about it at the end of the Joe Flacco era. And I mean, midway through 2018 There was all kinds of conjecture and rumors and reports that you know that the ravens and and hardball were heading toward a break up until Lamar Jackson arrived in the starting lineup and things change. But, you know, I mean, we’re, we’re five years later now on that, and the Ravens have one playoff win since then. So
Nestor Aparicio 16:34
things change quickly to my to my point about Doug Peterson is he did something nobody’s ever done there with a bag of quarterback and they threw his ass out on a rail. Very, very quick. There was no rope. There was no Doug’s the smartest, he’s the guy. He’s the reason. It’s like, we’ll get another one of you. And then I think about situations where like Kyler Murray’s counting his money and Kliff Kingsbury is like in Thailand somewhere in Phuket, St. Phuket, and I think about, you know, Russell Wilson’s counting his money and he’s running around with Sierra and Tiaras and, you know, whatever they’re doing in the offseason in the Daniel Hackett’s like trying to get to know seeking right so it really is amazing, these journeys, these quarterbacks and the coaches and the OCS and what they go through. But the differences here and in Pittsburgh, to your point in in New England and New Orleans when Sean Payton was there, but he had the same quarterback so did so did well. So to Mike Tomlin and sort of Bill Belichick for the longest time I mean, John John Harbaugh was on two quarterbacks Now there might be three if there’s a direction here but there is a marriage that comes with a quarterback and a franchise quarterback and a coach that you know we’re at a really pivotal spot in the history of the Ravens right like where they are and where they’re going because here’s where I am Luke Jones is here by the way you find him at the Baltimore Luke if you’re out on the internet and a and 1570 going to be doing a lot a lot a lot of Super Bowl radio row cool stuff in the coming weeks I want to so So Luke, I am your your um your Todd Monken I’m your Eric be enemy. I’m whoever your next Mac Cavanaugh and Cam Cameron Jim Caldwell is going to be and I come in and put my feet up on the desk and come I’m already I’ve won something I’ve got a ring from this or a hat from that or shirt from here. What do we have? All right, we got a left tackle who didn’t play a whole lot. He’s a little broken down and probably you know, well compensated right now we have some older offensive linemen we have this young guy at center looks like he’s gonna be a player. Mark Andrews, is he on the better side of grade are seeing that window where he is we’ve been using him like a wide receiver. He’s a tight end. We don’t know who the quarterback is. We don’t know who the quarterback is. We don’t know who the quarterback is. wide receivers what we got. Alright, well that kid eat mean he’s okay when he’s healthy. I mean, I’ll hear that he’s an elite. He can be an elite player. I mean, I’ve seen him do elite things. So we’ll I’ll check off on you have a wide receiver for me. We’re gonna go into the draft. We’ll look at free agents. We’ll do all that. All right, money, I’m good with money. You’re gonna pay me the requisite $3.8 million a year, whatever. You know, it says I’m going to get and I’m going to come in here. What am I what is the car here? Look, you know, it’s the car we just spent $20 million in an interior linebacker, and we’re gonna pump the defense up. We got this incredible corner that locks down on that side. We’re gonna figure this thing out. We’ve drafted all these young defense. We’re okay on defense, we need you to be the genius. I’m wondering what the pitches What does John say to these guys? And what did these guys say to John right now, and I’m gonna play this out a lot, probably over the next week or two until we get to this because I’ve read this is fascinating because this is empty and weird a cupboard as the Ravens have ever had to offer the hot coordinator to say, we’ve got this and it zigs and zags and you’re gonna be an innovator and you’re gonna be a genius and we’re gonna get your next gig. I don’t think it lines up that way with John. Nobody comes here thinking like John’s going to be pointing them toward beat the hardball tree. This is a different kind of gig. And, you know, I mean, it just is calling it what the way I see it when you come in here, I don’t know how attractive this job is, other than the pay and this and that, but like actually thinking that you know what you’re getting here because you’re this is going to be a much more mysterious gig, you’re gonna have to have a leap of faith to use a Bruce Springsteen song for you.
Luke Jones 20:30
It’s funny, you mentioned that because I was just going to use that to a degree, I would paint some of what they have in a little bit of a more positive light than than you laid it out. I do think the offensive line is in a good spot at this point in time. Ronnie Stanley. While he didn’t come back until October, he looked like Ronnie Stanley when he was playing now. Was he 100% all the way back to 2019. Pre injury? Maybe not. But I think the point is, he didn’t look like a severely diminished version of himself.
Nestor Aparicio 21:02
Would you want him protecting Joe burrow? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like the salary cap number and his injury history? No. Do you have it? Here we go. Big trust? Do you trust him? You know, and I mean, do you? Do you believe he’s got 16 games in play? Do you believe he’s got 11 Games next year and play offs in him as a 30? Right. I mean, it’s we’re getting to that point. If you’re coming in and taking the gig, am I play with Am I playing with a fourth string, the big kid that didn’t fillet and we literally they went from that to Greg Roman, take this kid make a left tackle go be a genius, right, literally.
Luke Jones 21:42
Well, fall alias is any still more intended to be a right tackle. But that’s where they were right. They lost Juan James and then Patrick McHenry got her to so they were down to pretty quickly early in the season down to their fourth string, at least for a game or two. Where they were but I hear you. But I do think you look at the rest of the offensive line. Linda bomb looks on his way to being at least the Pro Bowl caliber kind of Senator. I think that’s that’s not an unreasonable projection at this point, quite frankly, needs to be at that needs to be at that worst he’s fringe Pro. Well, otherwise, that’s not a good pick in the first round for a senator. But you have him you still have Kevin’s light learned to contract you have Morgan, Moses under contract, left guard, we’ll see what happens there. I mean, Ben powers, I think is going to be too expensive and frequency and hey, played well, he deserves a chance to get paid elsewhere. And I don’t think the Ravens don’t not gonna have the cap space to do that, quite frankly, when you consider the other needs they have on this roster. And whatever the heck’s going to happen with Lamar Jackson, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 22:43
with Ryan Jensen over the weekend, he sends his best
Luke Jones 22:45
or you go, there you go. So, but But overall, you know, to go back to your original question, I do think the offensive line is in a good position. Yes. Is there going to be some unknown with Ronnie Stanley still? Sure, is it as much as a year ago where we were wondering if he was going to play again, I think he’s answered that, at least to a point and he’s moving in the right direction there. And that’s all you can do right now. Because contractually speaking cap wise, you’re still stuck with him for another year or two. So if he can build on what he did last year, then that’s a positive. So offensive lines in a in a good spot doesn’t mean it’s going to be five for five and starters returning but feel pretty good by the chances of four out of five returning their tight end room. Mark Andrews is one of the very best in football that hasn’t changed. And you have Isaiah likely and Charlie Kohler, who especially likely flashed the potential that he could be, you know, as number two tight ends go, he could give you some dynamic pass catching ability there, which you’re gonna need, especially not knowing what wide receivers gonna look like and your attempts to upgrade. But you know, and you have JK Dobbins Gus Edwards, we’ll see what happens there he is making a little over $4 million, which is pricey, considering where they are cap wise. And he’s your number two running back. So we’ll see what happens on that front. But you feel overall, you feel good about at least your 2023 running back picture. But your point is well taken if you’re an OC, what the hell is gonna happen with large accident? I mean, you have to ask that, right? I mean, and I’m sure that there is
Nestor Aparicio 24:18
no answer when you take the gig. Well, they’ll give
Luke Jones 24:21
you I’m sure the ravens are giving an answer to that person. It’s how much confidence do they have
Nestor Aparicio 24:27
gone and I think the pitch is we’re going to come in here and rebuild this thing and start from scratch and and and that has to be the way you’re thinking about this. You can’t be thinking about this as Lamar is here. I just I I have as a fan, as a as a radio person. As a reporter. I’m thinking about it more all the tea leaves say to me that I would expect him to not be here. And that’s how I feel about it. That’s how my head’s on it. But you know, I walk around town and I hear how I mean most Hands believe he’s coming back. And that’s God bless him. But I don’t feel like the body language, the money, the history. I just if you’re giving me $1 To bet it, I think you’ll be somewhere else. And I think somewhere else means that this is a complete different kind of gig, exciting gig for the right person. Right. But but a different kind of gig than maybe it would have been in a different circumstance.
Luke Jones 25:24
Fair enough. I mean, I still think there’s more uncertainty there. I don’t, for example, I don’t think they’re telling a new OC that Lamar Jackson is definitely going to be traded. But at the same time, if they’re saying with 100% certainty that he’s going to be back and he’s going to, and not just 2023. But beyond, then yeah, I mean, I don’t think you can speak with that level of certainty. And again, that’s where you go back to this off as a coordinator, and something we’d be remiss without mentioning, is there a lot of OC gigs out there right now. And let’s be clear, there are absolutely teams that have an offensive coordinator opening right now, that would not look as attractive as the ravens, even without Lamar Jackson. However, there are gigs out there that might have a little more quarterback certainty, in terms of, you know, either they have a guy like in the case of Justin Herbert, with the chargers, or a team that has an early draft pick, right, you know, a team that is going to be selecting, you know, Bryce young or CJ Stroud or will love this, you know, whoever you’re talking about. So
Nestor Aparicio 26:27
well, the other thing is, you’re getting a three year deal here. 10 million bucks, or whatever the going rate is. So there is the stability of, if I play with their car this year, and it doesn’t go well. I can survive this. And if I go, and I’m being compensated to survive it either way. So there is that part of taking the mystery on that? Whatever it is year three, you might have a different quarterback. Right? Yeah.
Luke Jones 26:50
Although I would also say and you mentioned the contract. And, of course, that’s part of it. But let’s face it, head coaches get fired all the time with three, four years left on their contract. So there’s never certainty in that way. If you’re, whether you’re an OC, whether you’re someone that’s been hired to become a head coach somewhere, you know, I mean, but what they’re
Nestor Aparicio 27:10
pitching you now. Exactly. Yeah. And the honeymoon period is, you know, we don’t know who our quarterback is on April 1, let alone September 1 of 2020. Sets, right, but you’re gonna be the guy here. And hopefully, we’re beating Patrick mahomes and getting ready to go to that Super Bowl and Inglewood or wherever they’re going to have it that that year. You know, like, that’s how this I think organizationally, the best part of this gig is it feels like John’s King, it feels like John’s, and John’s gonna let you do your thing. So that unto itself, is pretty exciting. I you know, I think if you’re taking that I don’t want to urinate on this job, because I don’t think it’s a bad job. I just think it’s a way different job than a lot of other jobs.
Luke Jones 27:53
Yeah. Well, certainly if Lamar Jackson is not going to be here it is because, I mean, you just said it. Patrick mahomes isn’t going anywhere. Joe burrow, presumably. And again, it’s the Cincinnati Bengals. So I don’t wanna make too strong of an assumption here, but presumably not going anywhere. You have Josh Allen in Buffalo. I already mentioned Justin Herbert with the Chargers. So if Lamar Jackson’s not going to be your guy? Well, I mean, you just mentioned and I know you were just using it as an example. But you know, Derek Carr coming in? I mean, okay. Ryan Tannehill. coming in. Okay. Do I think the ravens are going deep into January with a guy like that? No, I don’t I mean, for me, it would become, when are you getting your franchise guy then? You know, the next Lamar Jackson, you know, if, if we’re talking about that scenario playing out. So that’s where it is, you know, it’s tricky. And again, that doesn’t mean the Ravens aren’t going to hire a good person. It doesn’t mean the Ravens haven’t talked to really good candidates. But this is why I asked John Harbaugh, the date when they met with the media, and it was announced that Greg Roman was moving on, and that they were going to be searching for a new offensive coordinator. So I asked John, right off the bat, is there some concern based on whatever’s going to happen from the business standpoint? And again, even if Lamar Jackson’s tagged even if you say, we’re tagging you, we’re not treating you and 2023? What does that look like? When is he showing up? And again, we’ve talked about it and this isn’t even saying pro ravens, anti Lamar, it’s well within his right. If he gets tagged, it’s well within his right to start using some leverage you and I talked about it last August wondering if you really wanted a fully guaranteed deal. Why aren’t you holding out or holding in at the very least he didn’t use any leverage then so does he start doing it now? Or do you tag them and he shows up and it’s fine and they just play another year like they did last year? I
Nestor Aparicio 29:46
don’t think they know tag him show up fine. I think that that’s not really on the table. Probably not
Luke Jones 29:52
but I’m just laying out all I mean, even even if it is a case where Lamar is here, this coming year, what does that look like for The new OSI, what does that look like cap wise in terms of your ability to bring in some better wide receivers? I mean, it’s great to say, All right, well, we’ll draft one. Well, was that going to be enough? I mean, are you going to depend on Rashad Bateman to be healthy? You know, we’ve talked about veterans that wide receiver, what about corner with Marcus Peters becoming a free age and you got gonna have to bring in another corner? And oh, yeah, you don’t have a second round pick, because you just traded that to Chicago for ro Quan Smith. So there are a lot of questions at work here. That’s not to say the sky is falling. But it’s a lot of uncertainty right now. And more so than this organization is used to. I mean, at the very least, you’re going back to 2018. You know, that that offseason were at that point, the Ravens had missed the playoffs three years in a row. Joe Flacco was starting to break down physically, whether whether anyone expected it to be that offseason or not, it was clear that the Flacco error was starting to come to an end at that point in time, whether it’s going to be 2018, or the following year, drafting a quarterback, I think most people figured that was right around the corner, just on the fact that, you know, Joe was breaking down physically and had the bad back the year before. So, you know, at the very least, this is as uncertain. The level of uncertainty right now with their offense specifically, is as great as it’s been since then. And I would even venture to say that this might be as much uncertainty as they’re feeling collectively with Lamar, offense coordinator. The positions of need that they have right now, the salary cap ramifications. This might be is as uncertain as as it’s felt, since I don’t know maybe go back to the year John Harbaugh was hired. I mean, they’ve
Nestor Aparicio 31:44
had they’ve had five years of a franchise legendary quarterback, he’s got a statue built in his college to handle they won one playoff game. And, and they’re exasperated, right, like clearly the podium that you you are in the room that you know, in December and into January, not having him available in January, adding on to whatever the divide is with practices, money, contract training, Camp tweets, online accountability, pay me like all of that. Not showing up in Cincinnati at the plate not being that you like all of that tells me that there’s some tea leaf issue here that, that they’re not going to be the ones to pay in the most right? And wait, you know, for you, when people ask you, what do you really if you had $1? What would you bet it on Luke? I mean, what do you where do you really think this is gonna go?
Luke Jones 32:42
I’d like to think we’re going to see a resolution one way or the other, meaning you either work out a deal, and maybe it’s because Lamar Jackson, maybe the tags involved, maybe you’d say, hey, we’ll explore a trade. Go seek out what your value is, you know, in a way, that’s not the same as Ray Lewis in 2009. But along the same as he knew some told Ray, hey, go see what other teams will pay you. I mean, Ray hit the market, as you know, you know, so it’s not gonna be that extreme, because Lamar is not going to become an unrestricted free agent. We know that. But if you get some clarity, and you see what other teams are offering, or maybe more importantly, what they’re not offering, relative to what Lamar Jackson once does that, you know, does that is that the catalyst for some movement, or are other teams saying, they’ll give you more guaranteed money, and then the Ravens revisit where they are with their franchise quarterback, knowing that, hey, the prices aren’t gonna get any cheaper, new TV money’s gonna kick in this is just the price is going to continue to go up. And that’s the cost of doing business. And the same way we talked about the Orioles over the last 20 years at different times. It’s free agency, you can talk all you want about fiscal responsibility. That’s great. That’s not getting in the player. Right. I mean, that’s getting you finishing third for every free agent. So but I’d like to think that either that or you do work out a trade, and you at least have some finality here some resolution because this past season was not good. And in terms of that situation, and look, I’m not saying that that’s all Mr. Jackson’s fault. You made mention about one playoff win. If I’m Steve Ashati. I’m asking you to Causton John Harbaugh. Hey, we had this unanimous MVP quarterback Why did we only win one playoff game over the last five years? That’s a fair question of them. Oh, then the
Nestor Aparicio 34:27
answer would be he got hurt the last two years we couldn’t even get it. We we could even get clarity on how hurt he was for purposes that we’ve looked. I would think in their minds a little foolish for coming out and saying he was going to be able to play and couldn’t play. Right.
Luke Jones 34:42
Fair enough. But but but that’s putting it on Lamar Jackson. There are other reasons why this team only has one playoff win beyond Lamar Jackson’s lack of availability at the end of the last few years. Yes, somebody has thrown the ball to right. Well, that offensive coordinator. I mean, Greg Roman was wildly successful in 2000 And 19 Why did it backslide from that point on? You know, okay, how much of that’s Lamar? How much of that’s personnel? How much of that is coaching? How much of that is? Yes, some bad luck, no question with the injuries. But my overall point is, it’s not all that one playoff win. It’s not all a Lamar Jackson thing. It’s an organizational thing. You know, it’s all those different reasons. And you could try to divide up the pie of blame however you want, but it’s more than one thing. So that’s where you look at this thing and where it is unique. And in terms of if you are moving on a lot. Similarly, if you are ultimately going to trade him and again, I don’t know, you asked me to bet $1, one way or the other. That’s where I’m still wondering if him playing on the tag is how this still winds up. And I’m not saying that’s optimal. I don’t think that’s optimal whatsoever on a lot of levels. But I don’t know, possible, like optimal. I think it’s possible. I mean, at the end of the day, Lamar, Jack, I mean, is he going to forego making $45 million? You know what I mean? Like, I hear you, it’s not optimal. It’s not ideal. And that might mean he might not show up till August 14. But he still has plenty to play for. It’s not as though he’s going to just turn off his phone and not be prepared to play in 2023. When the time comes now, again, that time might be the third week of August. And that’s not ideal for you to maximize your opportunity. You
Nestor Aparicio 36:25
imagine the Ravens want no part of that. They just don’t I don’t want to rainless want any part of what they’ve dealt with the last thing 90 days.
Luke Jones 36:34
And that’s fine. But again, it’s great to say these are I hear you and I’m not saying you’re wrong and saying that. But it’s really easy to talk in those terms in February when you don’t have any football games to play. When it comes to September, and you’re trying out some bridge quarterback or some rookie quarterback that is not Lamar Jackson, and you start the season two and five and look at you know, I’m not saying that that’s exactly how it would play out. But point is, you’re still talking about a franchise quarterback and a guy who’s been an MVP, two time pro bowler, tremendous talent. And if you’re gonna move on from that, like I said, replacing that is easier said than done. So that’s where you do, you’re treading carefully here. And it’s it’s unsettling. And again, it goes back to what we were saying that’s part of the the OSI hire here is you know, that’s that’s part of it, and you can try to sell it the best you can. And again, I don’t think the ravens, if you tell me right now, Lamar Jackson’s never gonna play for the Ravens again. That doesn’t mean I think that the of all the OSI openings, that it’s the worst one, far from it. But it’s not the best one either in that scenario, because, well, you don’t have the third overall pick to draft a quarterback right now. So who are you trading them to? What picks are you getting? Where is that team picking right now? Are you going to try to pick one of these quarterbacks this year? Do you try to do a bridge year and look at next year’s quarterback class and say, Oh, that’s like the kid from USC? Maybe that’s gonna be our guy next year. Well, how do you get from point A to point B in that in those terms, not saying there. But there are a lot there are a lot of questions here regarding any way you slice it, whether he’s playing on the tag, whether you trade them, or if you do still find a way to sign them long term which again, I don’t know. But
Nestor Aparicio 38:23
this is why we’re all fans right? This is any it’s the more esoteric, deeper dive offseason. It taking in pics, money, personalities, egos how agents work, how the cap works. You like who the managers of all of this are who’s at the top of the pyramid? What what their tolerance for all this is what their history is. It’s it’s really, really complicated. But it’s it’s made much easier. And much more clarified, I think by looking at Patrick mahomes. And looking at Jalen hertz and looking at what they’ve done and saying, Are we closer to that? Are we further away from that? Where are we in regard to this? Because it feels to me like the ravens are a little bit of ways away from what we’ve seen the chiefs in the Bengals in the bills in the last couple of weeks, but more specifically, how you climb that mountain then you you go try to win a Super Bowl. I mean,
Luke Jones 39:21
they have certain elements of what they have right now. I mean, you look at the defense and hey, here’s here’s something that I want to make clear because you know when you and I have sparred, let’s say you know and good natured but talking about offensive philosophy and how you build a roster in the modern NFL and all that. Defense still matters. Let’s let’s be clear about that. And we saw I mean, look at Kansas City’s defense making plays when they needed to even though they weren’t statistically a very impressive defense over the course of the season, but they made plays, it still matters. You need a balanced roster. And I think most people who have talked about the passing game needing to be better never said that. means you sacrifice the running game or you completely sacrifice the defense just means you need more balance, you know, you have to be able to win in different ways. But there are elements of this roster and elements of this football team that you really, really like. But, boy, when you’re talking about offensive coordinator, talking about I mean, first and foremost, your quarterback, the uncertainty there, and then offensive coordinator. And then oh, yeah, did you see the big plays that wide receivers were making over the course of the last couple of weeks in the playoffs? And we don’t
Nestor Aparicio 40:28
have any of those guys. Those guys, we don’t have met those guys yet. The Ravens
Luke Jones 40:32
have Mark Andrews, who at the tight end position does a lot of that. But you need more than one guy. I mean, you just do and look if Prasad Bateman comes back healthy, great, he can be part of that part of the answer. But you got to invest there. And you know, those positions I just laid out and then corner over on the other side of the ball. And okay, there’s your pass rush. Good enough. Did you see how important the pass rush was in some of these divisional round and conference championship games? I mean, you know, are you sat there? You know, do you feel that good about a job? Oh, next year, you know, a Dufay? Oh, wait didn’t exactly have a great second season. You know, Justin Houston’s a year older, you’re gonna bring him back again. I mean, it’s, yeah, there’s that they have. The cupboard is not bare. Let’s be clear about that. But some of the positions where they’re a little more of a have not some really important positions. So and they only have so much cap space, depending on what happens with the Lamar Jackson situation. You know, if you trade them, all right, then you have cap space, and you’re gonna have presumably, unless you sign a veteran quarterback, which that’ll eat up a lot of your cap space. But if you go the young route, then yeah, you’ll have lots of cap space to go get a receiver trade for DeAndre Hopkins then. But if that’s not what you’re doing, and Lamar is on the tag, with thoughts of him staying, you know, whether you work out a long term deal, or whether he plays on the tag, then can have some really limited resources to address all those different things that we just mentioned. So, you know, it’s the tight spot. And your your question is, is spot on? Are they closer to those teams that you just mentioned that we’re seeing playing the second and third weekend of the playoffs? Or are the Ravens kind of moving in the wrong direction? Not? They’re not crashing and burning? But are they moving in the wrong direction? I mean, 2019, at this time, we’re talking about the ravens, you know, even after losing the Tennessee, there was so much talk about their a year ahead of schedule, they have this unanimous MVP quarterback and look at all the studs they have on both sides of the ball, and they have cap space. And well, we saw how that played out the last couple years, you know, it’s winning and progressing to becoming a champion. That’s not a perfectly linear process. You know, there are bumps and you know, there’s peaks and valleys. And not every team makes it. Yeah. And look at Philadelphia. I mean, five years ago, they thought Carson Wentz and Doug Peterson was going to be their head coach quarterback conference combination for the next decade. And five years later, they’re back in the Super Bowl with a different head coach and a different quarterback. So
Nestor Aparicio 43:06
50 weeks ago had to hold a press conference to save
Luke Jones 43:09
up for long.
Nestor Aparicio 43:12
So it is a national fall.
Luke Jones 43:14
That’s a lot. But that was a little different. I mean, Sean McVeigh that was much more him saying, Do I really want to be part of this anymore? I mean, the Rams weren’t firing him or thinking of that. I mean, they’re begging him, I
Nestor Aparicio 43:24
want to be a part of losing. And you know, that would be a question and offense coordinator come here and say, who’s my quarterback? Yeah. You know, well,
Luke Jones 43:32
and that’s why I’ll go back to what I said to you. Probably a day or two, after Greg Roman was let go or moved on, or however you want to describe the semantics of it. But you look at the situation for me, it’ll be very evident as far as whoever they hire, and look, everyone will have their react, great hire at all. They didn’t hire my guy, that guy stinks. The one thing I would say, though, is if this ends up being an internal higher end, look, the Ravens have talked to George Godsey and James Corbett, and they’re gonna do that, because you’re probably hoping that some of these incumbents will stay right. I mean, you’re gonna have to fill out a staff, whoever the OC is, and maybe he brings in a couple guys of his own, but typically, you’re gonna have some holdovers. But if this ends up being an internal hiring, I don’t think it will be but if it were to be, boy, that would tell you a lot about how teams are viewing this situation right now. You know, if the Ravens after two weeks say that James Urban’s our guy and look, I have all the respect in the world for James Durbin, I’m not this isn’t bashing him. But if you’re hiring someone internally, on the heels of letting Greg Roman go, and people were asking if they’d let him go during the season, I mean, people were making comparisons to Cam Cameron and Jim Caldwell and that whole scenario, but you go through an exhaustive search, and then you hire someone internally. That probably tells you all you need to know as far as how this will be perceived. But I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think it will be an outside hire. I don’t know who is going to be they’ve cast a very wide net. I mean, all the names that have been out there, and I’m sure because this is always the case, you know, and we find out after the fact, they’ve talked to some, some candidates right now that no one knows about right now other than a very tight inner circle. So we’ll see how it plays out. But you’re right, this is important, regardless of whether Lamar Jackson’s here in 23 or not, this is a very important hire on a number of levels. And I’ll go back to what I said earlier in our conversation, if John Harbaugh doesn’t get this right. The fingers got to be pointed at him, then I mean, you can’t just keep hiring coordinators and it doesn’t work out. And at some point, it comes back on the head coach, you know, talked about clock management and, you know, use the timeouts or all these different things. I mean, we talked about the two minute drive at the end of the playoff loss to Cincinnati. That was a total cluster. You know, you it’s easy to blame that on Greg Roman, that was John Harbaugh is the head coach that can’t happen, you know, especially a 15th year head coach, that can’t happen. So, yeah, the pressure, you know, the proverbial seat should be getting a little bit warmer in terms of, hey, it’s been 10 years since the Ravens have even gotten to a conference championship game, it’s time to, they’ve got to start having more success in January. I think. That’s the temperature of the fan base. I think at this point that, you know, making the playoffs is great. And that’s not something to take for granted at the same time, Philadelphia or not, Philadelphia, Kansas City, five straight AFC Championship games. Buffalo is getting to the second week, Cincinnati was one or two plays away from going back to back to a Super Bowl. So if you’re if you’re a Ravens fan right now, yeah, you’re saying, Hey, why is this thing stalling the first weekend or one and done? So I think that’s a that’s something that’s in the background here as the Ravens tried to get this offensive coordinator higher right. Not knowing what’s going to happen exactly with Lamar Jackson.
Nestor Aparicio 46:55
Well, I’ll be celebrating the 22nd year of Purple Rain one and simple 35 Baltimore bullies this weekend. The executive producer from up and NFL films and I have been trading some barbs back and forth. Purple Rain ones vailable out online and if you didn’t like that one purple rain too. We’re celebrating the 10th anniversary this week of being the 10th anniversary of all things Joe Flacco who still remains very very underappreciated here Joe Flacco as we sort of knew at the time so Luke can be found out of Baltimore, Luke and Luke at wn St. dotnet. Together, we will continue to cover all things Superbowl and football and revisiting radio rows of your out of Baltimore positive.com We are wn St. dotnet am 15 70,000 Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive
