The Orioles haven’t gotten a lot of production from the Coby Mayo experiment but at least for one night, it worked. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Yankees visit to Camden Yards and why defense matters in Major League Baseball.

Overview

Luke Jones and Nestor Aparicio discussed the Orioles’ 3-2 win over the Yankees, highlighting Kobe Mayo’s three-run homer and the team’s improved pitching performance. Despite managing only three hits, the Orioles avoided a no-hitter and recorded back-to-back games with fewer than three runs allowed. Jones praised Mayo’s potential but criticized his defensive skills. They also debated the Orioles’ roster issues, particularly at third base, and the impact of signing Pete Alonso. The conversation concluded with a focus on the team’s need for better defense and consistent offense to improve their record.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Host the WNST appearance at Faidley’s Lexington Market on Wednesday and run the Maryland Lottery Maryland Treasures scratch-off promotion there
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Host the WNST appearance at the Fishmonger’s Daughter (Faidley’s family) in Catonsville next Thursday and run the Maryland Lottery Maryland Treasures scratch-off promotion there
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Arrange for Ivan Bates, Megan McCorkle, and Jason Siemer to join the WNST event at Faidley’s on Wednesday
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Bring the Maryland Lottery scratch-off (Maryland Treasures) varieties to both the Wednesday Faidley’s event and the next-Thursday Fishmonger’s Daughter event
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Provide WNST coverage and details of the Ravens schedule release on Thursday for WNST listeners and WNST text subscribers
• [ ] Attend Oriole Park at Camden Yards on Monday night to cover the Orioles vs. Yankees game
• [ ] Stop by and appear at the WNST Faidley’s Lexington Market event on Wednesday (as a guest/presenter)

Orioles’ No-Hitter and Coby Mayo’s Performance

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the Orioles’ 3-2 win over the Yankees, noting the team managed only three hits but avoided a no-hitter.
• Luke Jones explains the criteria for announcing a no-hitter, suggesting it might be after eight innings due to the ease of following games on phones.
• The Orioles’ pitching performance is highlighted, with Brandon Young being solid despite command issues, and the team allowing fewer than three runs in back-to-back games for the first time in 25 games.
• Luke Jones praises Kobe Mayo for his three-run homer, despite his struggles and defensive issues, noting his potential as a major league player.

CobyMayo’s Role and Defensive Issues

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones debate Kobe Mayo’s role, with Nestor criticizing his performance and Luke acknowledging his potential.
• Luke Jones discusses the Orioles’ philosophy of valuing versatility over defense, mentioning the team’s history of poor fielding.
• The conversation touches on the impact of signing Pete Alonso, which has limited the team’s options at first base and other positions.
• Nestor expresses frustration with the team’s approach to defense, arguing that poor fielders should not be given regular playing time.

Orioles’ Roster and Injury Concerns

• Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Orioles’ roster, including the impact of injuries to Jordan Westburg and other players.
• The conversation covers the potential solutions for the third base position, with Luke suggesting the team should acquire a better third baseman.
• Nestor and Luke debate the merits of players like Weston Wilson and Blaise Alexander, with Nestor emphasizing the need for better defenders.
• The discussion includes the challenges of managing a roster with limited defensive capabilities and the importance of finding a balance between offense and defense.

Managerial Decisions and Bullpen Management

• Luke Jones praises Craig Albernaz for his bullpen management, particularly his decision to use Rico Garcia in the eighth inning against the Yankees.
• The conversation highlights the importance of bullpen management in close games, with Albernaz’s decisions being crucial for the team’s success.
• Luke Jones acknowledges the challenges Albernaz faces due to the team’s injuries and underperforming players, but also notes some positive managerial decisions.
• The discussion includes the potential impact of Trevor Rogers’ return to the rotation and the ongoing rehabilitation of Ryan Helsley.

Orioles’ Offensive Struggles and Future Outlook

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the Orioles’ offensive struggles, noting the team’s lack of production from key players like Adley Rutschman and Gunnar Henderson.
• The conversation covers the importance of getting contributions from Alonso and Henderson to improve the team’s overall performance.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the need for the team to find consistency in their offense, particularly with the bottom half of the lineup struggling.
• The discussion includes the potential impact of the upcoming games against the Yankees and the importance of winning streaks for the team’s morale and performance.

Luke Jones and Nestor discuss …and why defense matters in MLB

Tue, May 12, 2026 5:11PM • 36:24

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

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Orioles, Yankees, no hitter, defense, pitching, offense, third base, platoon advantage, Mike Elias, Pete Alonso, Gunnar Henderson, Adley Rutschman, bullpen management, Trevor Rogers.

SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones

Nestor Aparicio  00:02

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T AM, 1570 tacit Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive, positively, taking the Maryland crab cake tour out on the road. We will be at faidleys, really twice this week, Fay Lee’s at Lexington market this week, on Wednesday, the next Thursday, we will be in Catonsville at the fish mongers daughter, which is the faidleys family, open a new spot over in Catonsville. We’ll have Ivan Bates joining us this week, crab Derby, freakness Derby, and of course, the Yankees are in town. Luke Jones is at Oriole Park at Camden Yards on Monday night. The Orioles managed just three hits, but a victory and almost no hit through seven innings. Luke, when is the official because you’re the official W NST text provider brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy. Is it eight innings? Seven innings? Where’s a no hitter for you to text out the alert that the Orioles are being no hit?

Luke Jones  00:57

I think it’s kind of become eight innings. I mean, in this day and age when it’s very easy to follow a game if you have a phone, right? I mean, so, so I think from that standpoint, we don’t want to bombard people too early when they’re when we’re talking about a no hitter, but at the same time, if it’s after eight, and say, Okay, it’s real. I mean, there’s one inning to go. Seven’s

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Nestor Aparicio  01:21

real to me. For me, seven’s real,

Luke Jones  01:23

yeah, I mean, I probably was with you until recently, but I also, we also have the situation now where, I mean, with pitch counts being more rigid than ever, you know, where guys are rarely even throwing 100 or 105 pitches, let alone more than that to finish a game. That’s where I kind of view it through the lens of, okay, what do you do if someone has a no hitter through five or six but the pitch count makes it obvious they’re not even going to sniff the ninth inning. How exciting is it really, when you’re talking about a combined no hitter? So good thing is, it didn’t come to that point the Orioles get a hit in the seventh inning, and they get a walk and they get a Kobe Mayo three run homer, which, as much as Kobe Mayo has struggled, as much as you and I and plenty of other people have discussed the merits of him even being in the major leagues at this point in time, let alone being the hero, it was a good moment for him. He works hard. I’ve said this, I still think that there is a potential major league ball player in there. I think he’s flashed it. We saw it last September, but he hasn’t really shown it a whole lot. I mean, let’s just call spade a spade. He hasn’t been good. The defense is another part of it, but he has to hit if he’s going to stay in the majors. He must hit because he’s not going to win you games or help you with his glove. So that was good to see. It doesn’t mean that he’s fixed. It doesn’t mean I changed my stance, which, you know, I wrote it at Baltimore positive.com earlier in the day. That to me, it was, it’s tough to say that you’re really trying to win if you’re going to trot him out there every single day and start him but on a night when he wasn’t supposed to play, Sam beside her was supposed to be the DH against the lefty, which I thought was notable given his development, the way he’s been swinging the bat and the way that we’ve talked about how the Orioles love the platoon advantage, but Mayo ends up in there with beside having a little bit of a sore knee. Sounds like he’s fine, by the way, but a good moment for mayo, a good win for the Orioles. I mean, after they were thoroughly embarrassed, outclassed, however you want to describe that four game sweep in the Bronx, there was definitely a thought of, can you win a game? Can you beat this team at all, and they did that. And the biggest reason why it wasn’t even Kobe mayo, it was that they pitched well, right? They give up two runs. Brandon Young was solid, despite his command not really being there, but their pitching gave them a chance for what happened in the seventh to happen. So you get good pitching back to back days they’ve allowed fewer than three runs. It’s the first time in 25 games they had done even that much. And they do it back to back nights. You give yourself a chance on a night when you didn’t really swing the bat at all through the first six innings?

Nestor Aparicio  04:13

Well, yeah, the no hitter part of it. You know, it’s hard to dog them the morning after they win a game, right? But there is a point where, like, Kobe Mayo wouldn’t taken those at bats for your baseball team or mine, because they would have, we would have sent them out and would have been looking for a deal at a third baseman,

Luke Jones  04:32

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which they should probably still should be.

Nestor Aparicio  04:35

I was going to say that’s where I was going with this, which is he, it’s a home run every week. That doesn’t make him a big league player. We’ve seen the glove. We know what that is. I mean, really, it’s a strange philosophy that, like you think, and I think back to being a kid with my dad being a fan, like, when are they calling rich dower up? When are they calling this player up? Well, when they can hit major league pitching, we never talk about them Fielding. Like, are they a major league fielder? Have they earned the promotion to have a glove? This organization doesn’t even think like that, right? Like at all, right? Like, if you hit 25 home runs at triple A, they will call you up, and they will find a place to to your point, he must hit. He’s got to hit. He has to hit. Well, even if he hits, it’s still a disgrace in the field. Even if he was hitting 279 and was going to hit 23 home runs this year, do whatever they feel like would be 254, 238, with 35 Homer. I mean, whatever would keep him in the lineup, there’s no point where poor defense is getting anybody bounced right like the fact that you can’t, that you aren’t a major league player, that you can’t do that part of the job does not disqualify you from getting your at bats here.

Luke Jones  05:57

Well,

Nestor Aparicio  05:58

and I just a different philosophy that we’ve talked about, that’s all.

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Luke Jones  06:01

I mean, I hear what you’re saying, and I don’t really disagree. But in fairness to Mike Elias, and look, I haven’t had much positive to say about Mike Elias for a while now, but they weren’t planning on Kobe Mayo being their starting third baseman. I mean, Jordan Westberg is hurt, right? I mean, it’s

Nestor Aparicio  06:18

planning on doing with him,

Luke Jones  06:20

what mayo. He was probably gonna be a straight way. He’s probably gonna be in triple A or traded. I mean, I’m not sure, especially when they brought back mount Castle, which, if you recall, I I didn’t really understand that either at the cost that that they’re, you know, that they’re paying him, but he wasn’t in their plans to be the everyday starter. But this is what happens when you can’t keep keep players healthy and on the field. But

Nestor Aparicio  06:43

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what

Nestor Aparicio  06:44

was Kobe Mayo going to be when he grew up two years ago? What position was he really going to play before they gave Alonzo money? Right?

Luke Jones  06:50

I mean, I think it’s evident, it was first base. And

Nestor Aparicio  06:53

where’s beside you going to play first base? Where’s Richmond going to play first base? Where’s mount Cass are going to play first base like and then they give all this money to Alonso. So, no, just the thought that, like you give Alonzo all this money, you really do sort of block first base, right? Like you’ve you blocked the ability to use any of those guys, I’ve just thrown names out at you and saying these guys can play first base. Alonzo is going to be the first baseman 150 times a year, you know, or 142 times a year. And he’s played a decent first base. He’s

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Nestor Aparicio  07:27

played a

Luke Jones  07:27

really good first base. Yeah, I’ll give him full credit. Yeah,

Nestor Aparicio  07:30

okay, but, but you sign a first baseman, you then have eliminated most of the guys you have with a bad glove to do anything except hide them in right field, right or whatever you’re going to treat and hiding guys in the big leagues. That’s such a my dad term for Little League, right? You’re going to hide a guy. You don’t hide guys in the big leagues. And I think that’s the issue with fielding in general for this team.

Luke Jones  07:54

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Yeah. I mean, I I think it’s a little I mean, the point you’re making is, I don’t know if I totally see where you’re going with I didn’t

Nestor Aparicio  08:03

think about it when they signed Alonzo that they

Luke Jones  08:06

saw me. But who did you want to play every day? I mean, he wasn’t blocking anyone other than Kobe mayo, basically. I mean, you know, Ryan mountcastle had already kind of established the last couple years that he wasn’t going to be your first baseman for the next five or six years. He wasn’t playing that way for a couple years now. Rushman is a catcher, besides, catcher, beside, beside, oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying he’s a catcher in the vein of he’s going to catch 135 games. I think he’s caught well enough that he can remain a number two catcher and a DH otherwise, right? And he can play first base when, when Alonso gets a blow. So I wouldn’t put, I wouldn’t put pasayio in that category at this point now, three years from now, maybe he outgrows. Well,

Nestor Aparicio  08:48

that’s what I’m saying. They gave Alonzo this money. It’s a long time to block first base, is all I’m saying. They

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Nestor Aparicio  08:53

gave

Luke Jones  08:54

Pete Alonso the money because he’s been a guy that’s been a 35 home run plus guy, and frankly, he needs to be better than he’s been to this early stage of his Orioles career. But sure, in general, they’re just, they’re not a good defensive club. We know that. I will say this, these last two games that they’ve won, they’ve played cleaner defense, if you’ve noticed, there haven’t been these massive gaffes in the field where you know something happens, where you say, Okay, what was he thinking there? Or what happened there, or why was Why did someone not cover that base? Right? They played a little bit cleaner, and that’s helped their pitching. And they pitched well enough, and they’ve hit just enough, right? I mean, it’s a formula that they have to find a way to duplicate a little more often if they want to try to stack wins and try to win games and get back to 500 and and look around the landscape of the Al that’s not very good overall, and have a chance, but that’s what they have to do. But I hear you. I mean, I wasn’t worried whatsoever about them signing Pete Alonso to block any. One I because at the time, I thought, okay, you’re going to trade Kobe mayo, right? You’re, but

Nestor Aparicio  10:05

you’re, you’re remnant poor fielders. Your remnant poor fielders, that would be the thing you would do, is hide them at first base, and you’ve taken what the DH spots for? Yeah, I

Luke Jones  10:15

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mean, it really, it’s what’s, what the DH spot is for. I mean, that’s, you know, it’s nothing. I mean, Kyle Schwarber, it’s one of the best power hitters in baseball. You don’t want him Fielding. Anytime the Phillies put him at a corner outfield spot, they’re, they’re kind of holding their breath. I mean, he DHS almost exclusively so, so I hear you. I mean, the problem, problem isn’t really signing Pete Alonso to block. They need better defenders moving forward. That needs to be a better you know, that needs to be a bigger part of their philosophy, that it needs to matter if

Nestor Aparicio  10:45

you’re going to put the Kobe may or third base, he’s got to be able to play third base. That’s all

Luke Jones  10:49

or hit, or preferably both, right? I mean, so, so I hear you, but it’s where they are right now. It was a nice moment for mayo. I’ll continue to say I’m not, I would not close the door on him becoming a decent major league player at some point in time, at least a hitter. But where he is in his development and where this club allegedly fancies itself to be in terms of contending, Is he someone that you can continue to send out there at third base? No, it doesn’t feel that way. His defense early on was passable, I thought. But when the bat wasn’t alive whatsoever, and then I think over the last month or so, you’ve seen the defense regress and the throwing specifically regress, and it kind of is what it is. It

Nestor Aparicio  11:40

really will be the case if you do it every night, right? Your point, you can hide Kyle Schwarber on a Thursday afternoon game in the outfield. But, you know, if you were to, and that’s the problem with the roster makeup. I mean, I keep going back, yeah, yeah, it complete. It’s clunky there. That’s a great word for it. I mean,

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Luke Jones  11:57

it was clunky. But even before the injuries, I think you looked at the makeup even going in, going into spring training, you were looking at the bench. Anytime you have a bench with someone like Ryan mountcastle on it, and I’m not trying to pick on Mount Castle, it’s just what he is, right? He’s a first baseman or a DH if he’s not an everyday player, then I don’t really know how it fits, and early on, and obviously he got hurt the first weekend of the season. So it was, it became a moot point. But early on, you kind of looked at his role. What was it going to be a DH against left handed starters? Well, beside, come on, so much, you know. And I flat out asked Albernaz Before the game on Monday, you know, how do you kind of balance a young player who’s on the rise like bisayo and has handled himself against left handed pitching, albeit in small samples, but he swung the bat pretty well against lefties. How do you handle that and wanting to expose him to more left handed pitching to the point where you say, Okay, this guy’s not a platoon player. He’s just gonna play every day with the idea of the platoon advantage, which we’ve talked about, going back to Brandon hides lineups the last couple years, that this team clearly has an obsession with the platoon advantage, even if you have right handers who aren’t swinging the bat against lefties

Nestor Aparicio  13:15

like never come from Elias, right? That would be, yeah. I mean, that’s

Luke Jones  13:18

an organizational philosophy. I mean, I’ve said that. I mean, you know, I mean it, it’s been obvious, that’s what they’ve tried to do. I mean, they, they have so many guys that they’ve viewed basically as platoon players, whether, whether that’s deserved or not. By the way, last I saw, and I could be, I could be wrong on this, because I haven’t looked recently, but Brian O’Hearn, for example, with Pittsburgh, he’s been playing against lefties, and he’s hit lefties. So it’s one of those things where you kind of, you know, you want to make sure you’re not pigeonholing players too much to say, Okay, well, he’s a lefty. He can’t hit lefty pitching. Okay? If it’s a night where you’re going up against a brutal lefty, you know, like back in the day when Randy Johnson would be starting, if you want to give a couple of your lefties a night off on that night, have at it, but at the same time, you don’t want to be in a position where you just miscast someone and say, well, they can’t do this when they really don’t ever get a chance to do it. Because at that point in time when you have a bunch of hitters like that, and we’ve seen this with the Orioles, then you you you get into, you run into problems late in in games where teams try to match up, and you stack your line up a certain way, and they bring in a certain reliever, that can be a big problem for you, or you have to make a bunch of moves. And then goes back to the defense problem. So I don’t know. I mean, it’s, it’s one of those things where we’ve talked about it. I mean, their roster, if they have injuries, it’s it was flawed and kind of clunky to begin with. And you know, when Jordan westburg goes down, you were in a in a rough spot in terms of mayo kind of being the best option at third base of your internal options, or at least, I don’t want to say the best option, maybe the the. The option that had the most upside, let’s say. But clearly that upside, Monday night’s home run notwithstanding, has not been realized this year whatsoever. So that’s where you’re in a position where you’re looking at Weston Wilson or Blaise Alexander, or potentially moving Jackson holiday to third base, which I am absolutely against. I don’t think you solve a problem by creating another problem, which I question, if Jackson holiday moving to third base is what’s best for his career and his development at this point. But we’re going to see, I suppose. But if it were me, I would continue to say, go out and get a real third baseman right. Go out and get a Ramon or Reuss type, someone that can field and will hit at least a little bit for you, right? I mean, that’s that, that’s what, how I would be trying to approach this. Now, you can’t just snap your fingers and make a trade just like that, but I certainly hope Mike Elias is working the phones and trying to come up with a more realistic, pragmatic alternative to what we’re kind of talking about here. I mean, again, great moment for mayo. Look, I hope this, I hope this gets him back on track looking like he looked last September. He he really swung the bat. Well, last September, no one was paying attention at that point in time, and I understand it, but he looked, he really looked like someone who was starting to figure it out. He had a good spring. To follow that, but it just hasn’t happened for him. And then when you talk about the defense, and let’s face it, he’s self aware. He understands. He gets it. He’s a conscientious guy. He works his butt off. I mean, I no one on this team works harder than Kobe mayo, but it’s the big leagues got to get results, and he knows that, and it hasn’t to use a Buck show Walter term, it’s been a challenge for him. Let’s put it that way, right? So good moment. You know, you can try to continue to pick your spots for the time being, but they’ve got to figure that out. There’s no doubt. And I don’t think it’s Weston Wilson. You know plays Alexander, can give you some defense there, but is he going to hit any kind of degree that you need out of a third baseman on an everyday basis? I have my doubts about that.

Nestor Aparicio  17:16

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Well, he’s the guy they brought in that you wanted them to bring in, a guy that they could play shortstop in a pinch or left field, but

Luke Jones  17:22

he’s a utility guy, right? I mean, you you’re not looking at him to be an everyday player for you. So we’ll see. Well, they’ve

Nestor Aparicio  17:30

replaced mount castle with him, right? Or, you know, at least on the on the current roster, right? Like from where it would have been on on opening day, but both would have been on

Luke Jones  17:38

the roster.

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Luke Jones  17:39

I mean, it probably would have been Jeremiah Jackson at that point in time, if you kind of looked at how

Nestor Aparicio  17:44

another guy that has a little bit more of a versatile Glover perceived as such, right?

Luke Jones  17:47

Yeah, although

Nestor Aparicio  17:49

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he’s a four everywhere, yeah, I got you, yeah,

Luke Jones  17:51

no. I mean, I would say I actually think he plays a decent second base. It’s pretty clear. It seems pretty clear to me they don’t have confidence in him to move over to third, even though he played there a little bit last year, and we saw him in the corner outfield spots last year, given how lousy their outfield has been, the fact that we haven’t seen him in the corner outfield spots, last option probably tells you how they feel about him. I mean, the the issue with Jeremiah Jackson and he’s come back down to earth, obviously, I looked it up the other day. I think of all players, I think he had 131 played appearances, something like that. I looked in the in the major leagues, of all players with 130 played appearances, he has the lowest walk rate in baseball. I mean, it’s, it is really difficult to succeed and be an everyday player if you never draw so I mean, that’s we talked about, we talked about that narrative with guys even like Adam Jones, who walked more than that, at least. You know what? I mean, so, but in the case of Jeremiah Jackson, you know that that’s, again, you’re talking about someone that ideally wouldn’t be playing every day he’s done a nice job. I mean, there hasn’t been this dramatic drop off from what, at least, if we’re going to say what Jackson holiday was last year to what Jeremiah Jackson has been this year. I mean, that hasn’t really been the case. Go, look at the numbers. They haven’t been drastically like he hasn’t been a vastly inferior option. But we’re not talking about just treading water. We’re not just talking about last year as the standard, right? When I’ve heard people say, Well, they’re on a better pace than last year, well, Big whoop. That’s, that’s no prize, right? That’s not the goal here. So, so yeah, they’re, they’re still in a position where they’re trying to figure this out. Holidays, continuing his rehab assignment at triple A this week. So

Nestor Aparicio  19:37

if he’s going to play third base, second base up for Alexander and Jackson,

Luke Jones  19:44

I guess. And that’s kind of where that that’s where I go back to this. Like, is this really? Like, what are we trying to accomplish here? Right? Because, again, I get it Jeremiah Jackson had the Grand Slam and it swung the bat. Well, I’m I still. I’m on the roster, let me be clear, but I don’t know if I’m moving my one one second baseman who hasn’t really mastered second base just yet and is coming back from a ham a bone injury and has had a bumpy rehab. And now I’m going to throw a new position onto his lap, onto his plate, in addition to that, when he’s not a fully developed player, anyway, when he’s fully healthy, I just, I don’t like that, because, again, for what to to give Jeremiah Jackson the everyday job at second base, I’m not sure he’s played well enough to warrant that he’s he had a really strong April. Go. Look at how he’s hit the last couple weeks. I mean, it’s and like I said, he doesn’t draw any walks at all. I mean, you’re talking about a flawed player that I’m not inclined to move someone that I envision being one of my very best players over the next five years to another position. And when some of the questions about him moving off shortstop, reason why was not just Gunnar Henderson, but questions about his arm. Well, then I still have questions about his arm at third base too. So I don’t I just this goes back to the over the over arcing point that they don’t value defense, or they have a heck of a way of showing it if they think they value defense, right?

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Nestor Aparicio  21:20

Yeah,

Nestor Aparicio  21:20

would Elias defend himself in that case? Like, again, I’ll let lock and four call him names. I mean, I think they’re all cowards when they avoid me. You know, after doing this work for four decades, but I’ve met Mike Elias twice, if I had him on the show, and these were normal people, like, I normally talk to people on the air about all sorts of things. What would his philosophy about defense be? Oh, would he bull John me and just say, you know what you’re talking about. We, you know this Kobe May was a fine defensive player. We’re working with him. He’ll be, he’ll be fine. He’ll, he’ll figure it out. Well, Coach Jackson, holiday up. You know, we have the best training. We have the best I’ll hear all of that, but philosophically, smart guys, a Yale guy, right? Like, what? What is the deficiency that your analytics show you that putting poor defenders on the field can be overcome by their bat, because you Luke, you say, Well, you know, he’ll hit, he’ll hit, he’ll hit, you know, glove, yeah, but he’s, he’s got a hit, he’s got to hit the stay. Well, if he stays and makes 36 errors, what equation does Elias have in the baseball cosmos of analytics, that that’s a good thing, that big hit for glove makes you a big league player for the Baltimore Orioles. And you can do that times nine. You can have nine guys that are poor defenders and big league hitters, and you’ll accept that. Like, I that’s a different kind of philosophy for me, and I’m older than Mike Elias, so maybe he would have to explain it to me, like, like, I’m a young man.

Luke Jones  22:57

Well, I think one, one factor that he would really point out a lot. And again, if this is him giving the truth serum and truth

Nestor Aparicio  23:04

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zero, right, unfiltered, yes,

Luke Jones  23:07

would be. They value versatility. I think that’s been evident when you even look in the minor leagues with, you know, Gunner Henderson even played a little bit of second base in the minor leagues, right? In addition to shortstop and third same with Jordan westburg moving around the diamond Jackson holiday to a lesser degree. But, you know, played a lot of short even when it was apparent he was going to be a second baseman. And they didn’t move him right away. So he would say that. He would say, Well, if you go back and look at the Oakland A’s of the late 90s and early 2000s the money ball A’s Billy Bean didn’t, didn’t shy away from the fact that he didn’t really care about defense that much. I will say this, I don’t think defense is a prerequisite for a championship team. There have been teams that have been very successful that weren’t great defensively. I don’t, I don’t think great defense necessarily needs to be part of the equation. I think

Nestor Aparicio  24:04

it’s right guys out 12 times a game, correct? That’s another way to do it right.

Luke Jones  24:08

But, but the overall, the overall, prevailing thought, is that if you’re going to kind of look at this, I would kind of equate it to football. You have the three phases, right, offense, defense, special teams. Which one is the least valuable? Though? Special teams, I mean, there are fewer plays. Now, situationally, it can be very important, but the number of plays, it’s the reason why the best kickers in the league makes $6 million compared to the best at any other position, how much money they make. So I think baseball not to that extreme. I think it’s closer. But offense, pitching and then defense would be a little less, little less valuable on the overall, if you’re trying to divide it up with a pie, right? I think that’s, that’s the argument he would make, I would think. And there would be some. Some merit to it, however, that that’s only true to an extent, right? You can’t have completely terrible defense. You especially if you don’t have pitching that is striking people out all the time, right? I mean, you know if, if you have pitchers who miss a lot of bats, then the defense becomes, even, you know, it’s, it’s marginalized to an even greater degree, right where you’re saying, Okay, well, they’re kind of out there standing if we have got, if we’re going to average a strikeout plus per inning, or whatever it ends up being. So, so I think that’s, that would be basically the gist of what he would say. He would obviously defend whatever they’re teaching in terms of defense in the minor leagues. But as we’ve talked about it, I mean, their defense has not been stellar. I mean, it’s the nicest you can put it is a game like Monday night where I thought they played a pretty clean game defensively. It wasn’t phenomenal. But they also didn’t do any things that made do, anything to make you shake your head. I mean, I the Taylor Ward play later in the game where he let the ball go off the bottom of the wall. I thought that’s one he could have gone for, especially knowing Tavares was right there. Like not saying you need to injure yourself, but go try to make a play for your pitcher. I mean, that that that wasn’t the best, best showing from him, but, but

8

Nestor Aparicio  26:21

he’s

Nestor Aparicio  26:21

walking once a day.

Luke Jones  26:23

Yeah. I mean, you can accept Taylor Ward not being a great fielder, because he does produce what he does. I’d like to see him start hitting for a little more power at this point in time, and not just walking. But you can, you can live with that profile Kobe Mayo’s profile, not so much. You know, has Kobe Mayo played good enough defense, decent enough defense, that if he were hitting to any degree the way we thought he might be able to on the heels of last September, then that would be, that would have been more of a discussion, right? I mean, you would say, okay, I’m okay with him out there playing the first six innings, but I want to bring, bring in a defensive replacement, then for the late innings, when it’s a close game. So, you know, I mean it, but it still comes back to, if he’s not going to hit, it’s a non starter, right? I mean, you’ve got to do something well, there has to be something in your profile that you do well. And it goes back to the point you were just bringing up about the defense and what Mike Elias would say, part of the argument of having a below average defense would need to be that your offense is really excelling. Their offense has been very average, right? It’s been very underwhelming in certain areas. It’s been worse other areas. It’s been a little bit better than that, but the overall profile for their offense has been a relative strength only, not a definitive

Nestor Aparicio  27:46

8

Well, Alonzo and Henderson are a big part of that, right like so while we’re 30 minutes into this on the night when they almost get no hit and still win and we can blow, you know, smoke in 50 different directions for their problems In the staff and where they are, and Elias and third base for one night, it wasn’t a problem, but the overall arc of the way this team looks is they’re not hitting the ball, right? They were getting no hit again, and Alonzo and Henderson looks broken dude, right? Like it

Luke Jones  28:22

hasn’t. I mean, it’s, he’s struggling. I mean, I wrote it the other day. I mean, after, you know, a year and a half of Adley rutsman Look looking the way that he did, they finally have a version of rutsman that looks as good as he’s looked in two years. But Henderson’s gone the wrong direction, right? Can you get both those guys looking right at the same time? Then you got something? But yeah, it’s absolutely you need more from those guys. There’s no doubt. I’ve said that over and over and over, especially when you have a night that prior to the third time through the order, the bottom five spots in the order Nestor put the ball in play once. So when you have a lineup that, even on paper, doesn’t look impressive, the bottom half of it, yeah, you need Taylor ward to start hitting for some more power. In addition to drawing walks, you need gunner Henderson to start looking like gunner Henderson. I mean, forget about the first half of 2024 give me the guy that he looked how he looked in 2023 just as a whole right where he was Rookie of the Year, he was most valuable Oriole all that. I’ll take that guy. He doesn’t necessarily need to be an MVP top three candidate, but be the all star shortstop that he’s proven himself capable of being over long stretches of time. And I think he will be, but until he does

Nestor Aparicio  29:41

getting picked off thrown to the wrong I mean, it’s beyond the batting average, right?

Luke Jones  29:45

He got picked off twice in one game. I don’t know if he’s had chronic issues with with that kind of stuff, but he just needs to be better as a whole, right? I mean, his defense at shortstop, I don’t think he necessarily. I don’t think it’s. Necessarily an issue with his throwing or booting balls, although he booted one in Friday night’s game that was pretty pivotal to a loss. I’m not sure his range has been great at shortstop. You know, I the more I watch him play shortstop, the more I think of Manny Machado and thinking, okay, Machado could play shortstop, but he was an elite Gold Glove, Platinum glove third baseman, right? I’m not saying gunners a Gold Glove third baseman, but the more I watch him, the more I wonder if third base wouldn’t be his best spot. But so who’s gonna play shortstop, right? I mean, we’re trying to figure out who’s gonna play third base, who’s gonna play second base. I mean, we’re talking about moving Jackson holiday. I mean, it’s just it’s not good enough unless you hit the heck out of the ball. And they’re not hitting the heck out of the ball as a club. So you just have a very flawed baseball team that is sub 500 and they won on Monday night, and it was great. And again, I want to give a little some flowers here briefly. Brandon young, I thought, battled for not having great command. He did a nice job of getting getting into the sixth inning. Dietrich ends Nice job stranding a runner on third base. And this is where I will give Craig Albernaz some credit here, 234, do up in the Yankees order. In the eighth inning, he went to Rico Garcia, right? And I think it’s a little bit easier when you don’t have the fully established stats kind of closer, right in Ryan Helsley, where, you know, a manager sometimes feels a little, I don’t know if they’re scared to do it, but it feels like, you know,

8

Nestor Aparicio  31:40

The die

Nestor Aparicio  31:41

is cast for you,

Luke Jones  31:42

yeah, but, but you think about it in that eighth inning. I mean, you have Ben Rice, who had already hit a two, two run homer in that game, Aaron judge and Cody Bellinger up. That was the game right there. That was, that was truly the save right there. And he went to Rico Garcia. In fact, I asked him after the game if he was tempted to stick with Garcia, because he threw what nine pitches, was dominant in that eighth inning, two strikeouts. He said, No, he wanted, wanted to manage the pitch count. And he’s thinking about it from a big picture, picture perspective. But, you know, he went to Nunez. Nunez did a nice job in the ninth inning, so that was good to see, but I like the way that he managed the bullpen over those last few innings. I thought that was that was encouraging in a season, in a start where I don’t know if Craig Albernaz has, if he’s done a lot to make you think he’s a bad manager by any means, but hasn’t necessarily had opportunities to show off his managing chops. Let’s put it that way, with how many injuries they’ve had and and just not the players not playing well, etc. But I thought that was a situation where he managed the bullpen well, and I will, I really like that. He went to Rico Garcia in the eighth inning. I mean, I, I would have been inclined to start Garcia in the ninth because he had only thrown nine pitches, but he decided to go with Nunez. I respect it. You know, even if I would have done something different, I respect it. I think there’s probably something to be said of if you’re not sure your Garcia has enough pitches to get through the ninth, it’s probably best to give Nunes a clean inning start right off the bat, rather than him potentially needing to come in with two guys on base, and then then you’re really talking about it getting away from you so but they pitched well. And as much as I banged on the hitting and been critical of the offense, because the expectations have been higher for that group, they they won. They won Monday night because of their pitching. Kobe Mayo gets into one great right. He runs into one. He needed that. It was a good moment, good for him. All that they won because they pitched well. They their pitching gave them a chance when it really didn’t give them very much of a chance for the bulk of that series in the Bronx. So good win. But now I’ll ask what I continue to ask every time they win a game, every time they have a game where there’s some emotional element to it, some element to it, where you say, Can this galvanize this ball club? What are they going to do tonight? What are they going to do tomorrow? What are they going to do the day after that? Can they they they’ve won two in a row? Can they win three in a row for the first time since what the second week of April? I think it is. Can they win for their next five? Can they win five of their next six? Can they get themselves on a roll and get back to 500 we’ll see the way this team has performed so far in 2026 you expect a loss tonight, because that’s just how it’s been. Every time it feels like they get a big win, they follow it up with a loss, maybe a couple losses. So we’ll see, I assume we’re going to see Trevor Rogers, you know, because, you know, you kind of look at the way the rest of the rotation lines up, you know, Bradish isn’t going to be ready to go till Wednesday, you know, in terms of regular rest. So I assume we’re going to see Rogers. Albernaz didn’t. Would not announce it right after the game, but I think we’re going to see Rogers. We’re going to see him be back. They need to see the best version of Trevor Rogers. And they’re pitching a little bit better here of late, good. They need to continue to do that. And in the bullpen, we did get an update from Helsley on Monday afternoon. He’s feeling better not throwing just yet, so pretty clear he’s not going to be maybe by the end of the month, he could be ready. But helsley’s return is certainly not imminent, in the sense that he’s going to be back when the 15 days is up.

Nestor Aparicio  35:34

8

Yankees are in town. Luke will be down at the ballpark. We will be together on Wednesday afternoon at faidley’s Lexington market. Ivan Bates is going to be joining us. My pal, Megan McCorkle is going to stop by. Luke’s going to stop by. Jason Siemer is going to come by and talk about Borneo and Morocco and all sorts of things like that. We’ll be at fayley’s with the Maryland lottery scratch offs. They’re the Maryland treasures. There are four varieties. We’ll also have them next Thursday at the fishmonger’s daughter in Catonsville Orioles entertaining the Yankees freak this in town. Ravens schedule coming out on Thursday night. We’ll have it all for you. If you’re in the wnst tech service, brought to you by Call Roofing and Gordian energy, you’ll get it all first. We are W NST AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive

36:20

the.