It’s been quite a week for the fashion-forward sports fans of Baltimore. Our pal and sports brand artist Todd Radom joins Nestor to discuss the Ravens Next Flight uniforms and helmet variations and the City Connect” concept for Orioles fans. Let’s peek inside how the mind of an artist, the heart of a billionaire, the wants and needs of Nike, “properties” and how the churn of reality and sales shifts the times, shadows and “laundry” of your favorite team and league.
estor Aparicio and Todd Radom discuss the Baltimore Ravens’ new uniforms and helmet variations. Nestor expresses concerns about the lack of purple in the new design, while Todd emphasizes the importance of brand evolution and maintaining historical integrity. They also touch on the challenges of balancing tradition with modern design trends. Additionally, Nestor shares personal anecdotes about attending games and the importance of functional uniform design. Todd promotes his book, “Ball beyond the ballpark,” which explores the rich history of baseball through illustrations and stories.
- [ ] Promote and sell the new book “In the Ballpark and Beyond” through public appearances and book signings starting around its May 26 publication date.
Maryland Crab Cake Tour and Personal Updates
- Nestor Aparicio discusses the Maryland crab cake tour and mentions the Maryland treasures scratch offs.
- Nestor thanks Wendy at Curio Wellness for providing tickets to a baseball game.
- Nestor mentions his upcoming walk for GBMC to raise awareness for sexual abuse victims.
- Nestor thanks Farnham and Dermer for keeping his AC cool during hot days.
Introduction of Todd Radom
- Nestor introduces Todd Radom, an artist and logo expert, and mentions their mutual acquaintance, Dick Girardi.
- Nestor and Todd discuss their mutual dislike for the current state of horse racing.
- Nestor almost texted Todd about the Ravens jersey situation but decided against it.
- Todd expresses his enjoyment of attending meaningless games with friends.
Discussion on Baseball Jerseys and Personal Interests
- Nestor shows off his Aparicio jersey and discusses its authenticity.
- Todd and Nestor talk about the durability and history of Mitchell and Ness jerseys.
- Nestor mentions the politics of modern sports jerseys and their ownership by Fanatics.
- Todd talks about his book, “Ball beyond the ballpark,” which celebrates baseball’s history.
Art and Branding in Sports
- Todd explains his approach to creating lasting and meaningful sports logos and uniforms.
- Nestor and Todd discuss the importance of brand equity and the evolution of sports logos.
- Todd shares his experience working with various sports teams and the collaborative process involved.
- Nestor expresses his skepticism about the recent changes to the Ravens uniforms and helmets.
Challenges in Sports Branding and Design
- Nestor and Todd discuss the challenges of balancing tradition and innovation in sports branding.
- Todd explains the importance of understanding the team’s history and brand perception.
- Nestor shares his personal experiences with sports logos and the impact of design changes.
- Todd emphasizes the need for a strategic approach to redesigning sports logos and uniforms.
Impact of Branding on Team Identity
- Nestor and Todd discuss the importance of maintaining a team’s identity through branding.
- Todd shares his thoughts on the recent changes to the Ravens uniforms and their potential impact.
- Nestor expresses his concerns about the lack of purple in the new uniforms.
- Todd explains the role of branding in creating a lasting and recognizable team identity.
Personal Reflections on Sports and Branding
- Nestor and Todd share their personal reflections on the importance of sports branding.
- Todd discusses the emotional connection fans have with sports logos and uniforms.
- Nestor talks about the impact of branding on team performance and fan engagement.
- Todd emphasizes the need for a collaborative and strategic approach to sports branding.
Final Thoughts on Sports Branding and Design
- Nestor and Todd discuss the future of sports branding and design.
- Todd shares his thoughts on the importance of evolving with the times while maintaining tradition.
- Nestor expresses his appreciation for Todd’s work and insights.
- Todd talks about his upcoming book and the importance of storytelling in sports branding.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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Ravens uniforms, helmet variations, Todd Radom, brand evolution, logo design, sports branding, Baltimore Ravens, jersey redesign, fan reaction, brand equity, sports history, marketing strategy, team identity, uniform functionality, baseball logos.
SPEAKERS
Todd Radom, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive. I’m wearing my purple Planet Fitness pride. We’re going to be doing the Maryland crab cake tour. I have the Maryland treasures. Hey, this is going to be an art segment. This is going to be fun. Well, these were artist driven from last year. They are now the actual scratch offs. They represent the state. I’ll have these at Koco’s on the 23rd before the draft. Luke will be drafting. I might be drinking draft beer, draft red stripe over there with Marcella will be at Koco’s on Thursday. My my co host for SIG, can’t join me, but he did join me at the baseball game on Wednesday. He’s got a farmer’s tan now from the seats we have from curio wellness. So thank you for the kindness Wendy at curio and foreign daughter, we do appreciate the tickets. Not these tickets. Those are lottery tickets. The tickets when I went to the game Wednesday. Also our friends at GBMC, I am walking a mile in their shoes. By the time you hear this, I will have done it, because I’m about to run out the door and go do it on a lovely 74 degree day in Baltimore, all for sexual abuse and awareness for victims who visit GBMC, where they have one of the most incredible labs in the country, and they help people in trauma. And I’m going to be helping those folks with a walk, walk a mile in their shoes. You can still donate it to GBMC. Also our friends at Farnham and Dermer who are keeping us cool, like Fonzie, like Bruce Springsteen, on these hot days, call them. Don’t let your friggin AC break on a 95 degree day, just have them come out to a spring cleaning. They’re good people. They’re our clients and sponsors and friends farnand And Dermer call Zach. I called Zach to go to the ball game on Wednesday, and he’s like it’s 85 degrees, so I’ll call Zach not when it’s snowing. I’ll call him when the weather’s good to go to a ball game. I almost called this guy. This guy’s up in Philadelphia. I had actually reached to him last week because I knew about this jersey thing with the Ravens. He is the artist extraordinaire and logo. What do you want me to call? You? Dude, teacher, lecturer, expert,
02:03
Nestor Todd Radom
8Nestor Aparicio 02:05
is our friend. He hangs in Philly, up in Fishtown. We get cheese steak sometimes. By the way, I was with Dick Girardi the other day. We’re both mutually pissed off about the horse racing situation with the Preakness and the Derby and Laurel. So I know we did have a cheese steak together up there. Open invite for you and Girardi and his best buddy, Marlo. You want to come down and get a crab cake at track down here the spa and Timonium, I’ll take you to Costas. But, dude, I came so close to texting you on Tuesday. But like, you go to all star games World Series and games in Japan and like, do all this stuff like, I figured you didn’t really care about a fourth row seat behind the dugout at a meager Diamondbacks. Eduardo Rodriguez, Kyle Brad is showdown at noon on a Wednesday.
Todd Radom 02:44
There’s nothing better than going to a game, a meaningless game, probably at noon on a Wednesday with friends and maybe having a beer and enjoying the sunshine. That’s a good thing. I would totally do that
Nestor Aparicio 02:55
white as a ghost, dude. How would you do in a day like that? What it would SPF, I know what little,
Todd Radom 03:00
8little SPF Irish or something,
Nestor Aparicio 03:02
you know. So you’re patronizing me right now with that White Sox hat that
Todd Radom 03:07
you’re, Well, come on, you know, I’m
Nestor Aparicio 03:09
actually freaking sitting on my Aparicio jersey. So I grabbed this on the interweb. Still has the still has the tag on it. I haven’t really, kind of worn it out of the house yet. But this is the 59 Go Go socks. It is in Mitchell and nest. And I know you’re in Philadelphia, and you have a lot to do with that. A lot to do with that company as well, but this is the 59 patching on it. And I bought it because it’s a 40. So I’m more of a 38 but because of Planet Fitness, of course, and my hot yoga routine, but it’s a little large on me. I know it’s not going to shrink, but, like, I got it on eBay. Some poor dude in Canada had it listed for like, a year and a half. And I finally got to, like, a price I could live with. I paid Trump’s $10 tariff, and I got this, and I haven’t worn it out yet, but it’s badass. I think I like it.
8Todd Radom 03:54
It’s a great looking Jersey, and you know, those Mitchell and nests, the old vintage ones, at least they’ll, they’ll last a lifetime.
Nestor Aparicio 04:01
So that’s not bootleg. That’s legit, you know, like more
Todd Radom 04:04
modern ones, if you want to look at it that way, because Mitchell and Nestor is partially owned by fanatics these days,
Nestor Aparicio 04:11
8like everybody else I know. You know all the politics of this, you know.
Todd Radom 04:14
But those flannel ones, they are, they are bulletproof. They’ll last a lifetime. All right, look, man, I’m not trying
Nestor Aparicio 04:19
to get you sideways with any of your partners or properties or whatever. I’m going to speak from my heart, and we’re just going to we’re going to have coffee. We’re going to talk coffee together. Todd, right about show me your book. I want to let everybody know how effing legitimate you are. It’s kind of like having a signal and talk about your book. Ball beyond the ballpark, every
Todd Radom 04:35
day, the ballpark and beyond. So this is an illustrated celebration of baseball’s rich history. It is the book that I was born to write, and I always say that, you know, I love the culture of baseball, both on and off the field. I’ve been fascinated about all of it since I was a little kid. I’m not a numbers guy, right? And in the ballpark and beyond, I kind of look at baseball through the lens of someone who’s intellectually curious. Um. Uh, what was it like to eat food at a ballpark in the 19th century? Right? What? What were, who was the first man to ever ride in a bullpen cart? I’ve got a I’ve got a short chapter about the the Oakland A’s rings of the 70s, mustaches and baseball. There’s Casey Stengel, Bob Watson. I’ve got mascots, all of it I have illustrated. So I have 150 original illustrations, 75,000 words to to I’m thinking about Bill Parcells.
8Nestor Aparicio 05:33
See, I think you’re not a writer, but that’s a lot of words. It is a lot of words. I mean, I think if there’s an art fart, that would would be ghost writing, but like, you’re like a writer, like writing is my first vocation, right? So the AI, a vacation of my writing has been a wonderful thing for me over since the last time you and I have literally had a cheesesteak together, like in the last five, six months, the AI, part of my world. It’s rocked my world in a Wonka kind of way that is allowed me to express my art, my vision, my thoughts, my strategy, all four quadrants of my brain that kind of work in a weird way where, like most art, people are like art or not writing, or you said you’re not into numbers and math, but my dad was way into I mean, I learned math by learning batting averages and and division by earn run average. But I have a total art fart thing like you were stadia design. You and I have been talking for half an hour before we even started about how they ripped the ballpark apart down here. Jan and Marie should have been the one doing it, but I, honestly, I want you to educate me, because, like in the old days, Dick Cass spoke to me, Larry lakino, the new modern world of the Katie Griggs and Sashi Brown, they don’t need me or anybody. They can be interviewed by one of their intimidating employees on their website and talk about how the brand came together and sell me some bullshit, like the wine companies do when I go out and Wilford Brimley charge, you know, out in Napa, they have some story about the vineyard in the war and the family and like, I’m not looking for the fiction about how Buca di Beppo was built, when it’s really just a brand with Italian food and they every day
Todd Radom 07:07
in the bathroom. Storytelling. It’s the imperative of the pub. I want the real story.
Nestor Aparicio 07:11
I want the real story because Sashi Brown alluded and Luke told me this, because I don’t really listen to Sashi talking to his co workers so much, because I can’t learn anything that way. The word was that they Nike pushed on this with the ravens, that a year ago, they the Ravens pushed back and said no. So that tells me, as an insider, bashati is extremely conservative. He’s with the boat crowd, the golf crowd, the Trump crowd, the like gold plated toilet crowd. That’s who Steve is. He’s with the Nestor is not a media guy anymore after 30 so. But Steve super conservative, and Steve thinks of the Ravens is his right arm. I don’t think he’s ever going to sell I, you know, like, the more I dive into this, this is what, this is the definition of who he is at this point. Because it’s not air attack or his money or whatever he loves. He would not want what the Falcons have had the last 20 years, which is just mismatch. And it got an art guy like you, calling him every couple years and elbowing him about, we need lavender. We need lilac. No, we need violet. No, we, you know, like, we need purple punch, you know, like I would say Steve would have been the guy when this thing comes to his desk. If you ain’t making Steve happy, Papa, you ain’t changing your logo, because he owns the team. He ain’t got, he ain’t talking to anybody but Renee, maybe, maybe like and she built the castle. So I know her taste. So for me with this thing, give me the real rundown from art, fart, business, Mikey, corporate league properties, because in the end, and I know you agree with me, this is kind of a nothing burger, what they did is very, incredibly subtle. Nobody. 15 years ago, they just would have released it and had a little thing for television. This was pitched as huge. I see it as small, but if you’re the one drawing the lines, it’s a big job, right?
Todd Radom 09:04
8Well, I mean, listen, let’s separate the hype from the product, right? Thank you. That’s why you just, you just called it. If this was 15 years ago, it would be released, maybe they’d have some small press release, as opposed to a big event. And it’s an evolution of what they look like. And you know what? It’s okay, like all brands evolve, with very few exceptions in sports, the Yankees have always looked like the Yankees. Well, not everybody is the Yankees, right? So a little bit of cleaning up of maybe some 90s excesses, with the shadows and details and simplifying things, you know, cut through all the clutter, cut through all the BS and the market speak, and you get a an evolution of the brand. They still look like the Ravens. They you know, if you squinted and looked at this, you would see the late 90s, and that’s not a bad thing. Now listen to your point about the Falcons. Sometimes you’ll see teams get in there and. I really want to blow things up and start from scratch
Nestor Aparicio 10:03
and, well, the NBA does it every minute, right? NBA does it.
Todd Radom 10:07
But the Celtics, the Lakers, they’re going to paint around the edges. They’re not going to be the, you know, name, name, 10 franchises who do like blow it up and start from scratch. The Knicks aren’t going to do that, right? Well, I
Nestor Aparicio 10:20
love the Astros and the padres, but that, you know, there have been too many blow ups, right, in a general sense. But though, and that’s on the baseball
8Todd Radom 10:27
side, they’re relatively new markets that you have opportunities to perhaps experiment in ways that you can’t do in Boston, or, I don’t know, name, a
Nestor Aparicio 10:36
couple of other places, by the way, I almost text you Wednesday when I was sweating my balls off there with rasig, and I told her, SIG, I was having you on. I was going to invite him on with us. He does this really serious coffee thing at Zeke’s coffee every Friday morning. It’s like church, and there’s like 30 people that get together from the neighborhood. I’ve done the show from there. And you know, I love Thomas, love you down at Zeke’s making. So we just did the interview at the wrong time. He said 10 o’clock he could do so I almost moved us, but sends his love,
Todd Radom 11:09
but Simon love back to him. I’m with
Nestor Aparicio 11:10
8him, and I’m above the Diamondbacks dugout, sweating my balls off. And the night before, they had worn diamond
Todd Radom 11:16
back, and I saw them in Philly on Sunday, they wore those
Nestor Aparicio 11:21
they were wearing Arizona on a Wednesday afternoon. And I remember when Buck brought in the purple in the mountains and the pinstripes, those are still their best jerseys, the Luis, Gonzalez, early, Randy Johnson. They went through all of these different incarnations. They are the ultimate modern shit brand. To me, like, they don’t know what they are. If I went to the stadium, there’d be 15 different colors around there’s been no need for any of it, other than selling stuff, I guess to whomever was there. I like, I don’t it feels to me like some guy, like you artist guy, one of you art guys is pushing them all the time, or Nike, or the money, or the new team president wants to sell stuff. I don’t know this thing. And listen, I have no love lost with Sashi brown one and 31 and how I’ve been treated like a, like a, like a rag doll, by these people. But I thought there would be much more shake up to sell much more stuff, because I look at this and if whatever it costs, I’m like, I have something that really looks a lot like it. And you mentioned shadows like that’s the art part that I really want you to get down with, because they didn’t do much, but pull the gold out for me, like that. They made it more homogenized, not more jazzy. I thought they were going to go the other direction.
Todd Radom 12:35
Well, a couple things. Let me back up a minute and say, Yeah, I’m the art guy, but Nestor, I’m a guy who builds brands. I want to create something that hopefully has an opportunity to be around for 2025 years. I did the angels in 2001 going into 2002 and whatever that franchise is, and why ever it’s still around. It’s still around. It stood the test of time. I don’t want to create something meant for planned obsolescence, and that is going to be replaced in three years, if I can help it. So when I think about the Diamondbacks, I think about 2016 or so, and this was so long ago in so many respects. You might not even remember it, but they had these very, very dark gray road uniforms,
8Nestor Aparicio 13:17
charcoal black, almost I remember that. Yes, yeah. And, and they
Todd Radom 13:20
had this gradient design
Nestor Aparicio 13:23
going down gold. Schmidt wore that jersey, right? Like it looks like
Todd Radom 13:27
8they stepped in a packet of ketchup or something, right? And Nike said this is going to be every team is going to be wearing this within three years, disappeared like a fart in the wind, right? So, anticipating trends and trying to shove trends down consumers throats and teams for that, for that matter, is is ill advised. So here’s the thing, I think, when the Diamondbacks kind of went to something simpler, is what I’m going to call it, what they’re wearing now, they added turquoise. I kind of like that. It looks like the southwest to me. It’s a contrasting color. They don’t lean into it so hard that it feels wrong, but it’s very devolved. And we are seeing this with the Ravens. We saw this with the Washington commanders just the other day. We saw it with the your Houston Oilers, excuse me, Tennessee Titans.
Nestor Aparicio 14:21
Oh, my God, everybody’s
Todd Radom 14:22
getting simpler because we are correcting excesses that don’t necessarily look good while viewing a game on a small mobile device. And it’s kind of back to basics in a lot of ways. And you know what? That’s not a bad thing.
Nestor Aparicio 14:38
Well, you mentioned the Diamondbacks and them having that sort of, that Sedona color of the green, like that was in their original logo that buck brought to them a million years ago with Colangelo, and that, you know, garage Yola in that group, like I just, I saw them, and I’m thinking, they’re like, unrecognizable. They’re not distinguishable. They’ve never distinguished anything because they. Never stuck with anything long enough, and that’s the ultimate mistake of where bishati, being ultra conservative as a human being, wouldn’t come in here and want to screw up a team that’s won two Super Bowls, that’s had Ray Lewis and has Lamar Jackson that they need to run around in their underwear or pajamas. And so for me, the marketing side of them bringing the PSL holders to Meriwether to really F with the commanders, right, like that part of the event being closer to Washington than the Baltimore leads itself. To them really trying to begging for younger people to fill the seats that I got thrown out of by Chad steel. I was a PSL holder forever. And Luke and I did comment that like they had an event now for the Ravens this year. New coach, new coordinators, new everything, like all of this, NEW NEW NEW getting rid of har ball. And what that was, they brought back, you know, every Todd heap. And Peter Bull’s a dear friend of mine. He showed up on my Facebook this morning. His pictures, Pete, you got to go landscape, not portrait. She cut somebody off over there on the left. So for me, that kind of night and fan enthusiasm and coming out and having current players and cheerleaders and that like, that’s awesome. That’s great,
8Todd Radom 16:14
but bigger than yourself, your heritage and legacy. That goes back a generation, but you
Nestor Aparicio 16:20
brought me that it was going to be this grand opening, and it was just sort of like a small remodel. You know what? I mean? Yeah. And that’s the part that I can’t get down with, because I’m like, Oh, you sold me on. I can’t wait. It was sort of like a Geraldo going into the vault in Chicago. Yeah, yeah, right. We all remember that, yeah. Tom randoms, my guest. I love him, and I’ve been talking a lot. I really want to get you more out of you, because I’m like, about my about the jerseys. But in the end, I got accused of hating the jerseys when I said it’s a nothing burger, and I’m okay with it. I’m really okay with it, because it wasn’t dramatic. And Luke and I were talking about all the drama that Nike could bring to the Oregon Ducks and a flying bird and a purple sheen. And I brought him all the stories of David Modell, and I going back and forth about the kiss bird and them needing a purple helmet in general. So to me, like, the more I look at it, I’m like, It’s fine, but I missed the gold. That’s all I would say. And you would say those are the shadows, maybe the
Todd Radom 17:18
artist, yeah, some nice contrast that you you’ve left behind there, but, but listen, you’ve got all this brand equity built up with multiple Super Bowls. And, you know, again, a generation of history. And I love the fact that, in the case the ravens, I can, again, squint a little bit, and I could see that inaugural team that arrived from Cleveland. I could see Super Bowl champions. I could see great players, and there’s a through line visually that connects the very first year to today. It’s no different, in a certain sense, than the Green Bay Packers for real, although they wore blue at one time. But I digress, you have all this hard earned brand equity that you’ve built up, unless you really are in need of blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. Why would you do that? And they didn’t need to do that, Todd,
Nestor Aparicio 18:07
8because you’re you and I’m I’m just trying to be without being flippant. I know what you do for a living. I have been in six basement watching a real artist do art all of my life. Some of my best friends are artists. You’re a friend of mine now, and but I don’t know how you work, right? And I know you probably had a pencil and wrote on Drew Pink Floyd logos like I drew Stix logos on my rush when it 1979 I don’t know how you work today, right? Like I mentioned AI and writing and this and that. And obviously I came from hard metal type in a newspaper and writing on vdts to being able to self publish and all of this modern stuff. I don’t know how a guy like you, that’s your age, my age, our age, came from drawing in pencil. I mean, we’re sick. Used to bring his artwork in with the orange cutouts with the exacto knife, you know, saying, yeah, what was that called? It had a foil. It had a name. Oh, the Ruby lift. Yes, thank you. Ruby lift. Old newspapers. So I watched artist John Massey, my dear friend, John kameho, I go to have a book wiser with John kameha is one of the Yankees. So I’ve been around all these people, and I’ve watched artists draw back. When I worked at the paper, I loved all the art guys I used to hang in the art departments. I know them all years for SIG, all that. Um, I’m thinking, you work with this these days, right? Like a mouse and a screen and software and different things. So I’m not being flippant. I really want to be honest with you. And if I came up and the laws were different, and I sat up on your deck, and let’s say we had a cigar together in Philly, had some drinks together, and I walked down into your laboratory, where you’re sitting right now, where you’ve created brag on yourself. How many Super Bowl like, what tell everybody like, how serious a guy you are, even though I’m treating you like we’re just having coffee.
Todd Radom 19:59
Well, we’re friends. Yes, and I’ve been, I’ve been in the business of branding for sports, for teams, uniforms, events, for 35 years. I started doing this when there were very few people doing it. So, yeah, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve created the logo for Super Bowls, for World Series. There’s a book on
Nestor Aparicio 20:17
hockey, right? So there’s no like whalers logo or old Vancouver Flying V you’ve, you’ve done it on my wall. I’ve got a whalers logo right there. Yeah. I mean, so you’re like, so here’s what I’m asking you, if I bought the ravens, or if a shot, he were smart and didn’t have some guy like Sashi brown running the team, and he and I were still smoking stokies at the Biltmore. He still cared about the team and the city the way he cared about it at once when he took me out to smoke stokies with Jim Irsay and tried to get the Ravens records back, that really happened at the Biltmore took an hour and a half, and it was a fascinating conversation between me, Jim Irsay and Steve for 90 minutes about Johnny notice his records and Lenny Moore too. So if Steve trusted me and I trusted you, and Steve said, I’m going to redo the art. I know you know this radium guy. Can you get him down here? I’ll shoot some pool in my office. He had a pool table and famously in the office, out at the Arts old office. So if I came down, he have a Scotch for you, or whatever, Orange Crush. And he took the logos and put them in front of you, and you just you and me. No. Nike, no. Roger Goodell, no. Just what would you do? Like I see the end result of the jerseys with the helmets, and they put bodies in it, and they send you the sheet. What’s that called? The final shot? Whatever they gave to the media, right? Whatever the Ravens have on the front of their website of the thing, right? That’s the end product of the art, right? Now, I’m going to be a little flippant and tell you that I redid a kitchen recently. And I did a kitchen 25 years ago, and my old place where I lived here, and beautiful guy, Donahue, and the Kenwood kitchens people and like, they had a little computer back then, and he free handed it. It was like drafting class, like, literally, Tom plesses class, and we would draft everything out. And three years ago, after covid, I’m not bragging about this, and I do hate the Falcons branding, but I went to Home Depot, and there was a dude there. My son works in adjacent Company Home Depot. My dude, my son knew him. I went. We sat in a computer, and he showed me a million ways to put my kitchen. He made it walnut, he made it avocado, he made it white, he made it off white, he made it ivory, he made it black, he made it green, and he said, The only thing I could really get right now is dovetail gray and like, that’s what you’re gonna have to do if you want it now. And I’m like, everything. I’m like, everything’s going to be great. So I didn’t think, but like, measurements, cutouts. Do you want a spice rack? He did all of this in 30 seconds and developed my kitchen, printed me a picture, and it’s exactly what my kitchen looks like. It’s exactly what my kitchen when the when my builder came in like. So I’ve done these kinds I’m not a complete idiot when it comes to all of this, but I am an idiot where Steve bashati and I and you concocted something, and you and I were sitting and having a drink, and I went down to your office that you where would you start with the Ravens? And I’m being really honest, if I gave you this job, I don’t know if you’d make $1 or a million dollars or a billion dollars, or somewhere in between some Right, exactly, but you are hireable. Steve. Can afford you. You’re the kind of guy in the same way that the Orioles, and I’ll get on to that later about how they effed up the entire notion of their stadium by not hiring canopy and Janet Marie from a vision standpoint of what it was and what it needs to be. But like, I would hire you. I mean, you’re as a but you might piss me off if I was a conservative owner, yeah, I’d have to tell you all this stuff, and you’d be like, All right, well, you are the Nestor. How many aren’t?
Todd Radom 23:47
Aren’t most owners very wealthy, conservative, white guys, right? I can’t tell
8Nestor Aparicio 23:53
that is the subset.
Todd Radom 23:54
Yes, you know. I can’t tell you how many owners I have met, interacted with, whatever, who basically are just, I’ll generalize here, and I’ll say they’re Wall Street guys who want to look like the New York Yankees, right? They want to look like a million bucks. They want to smell like the pinstripes. You very seldom have Mavericks in that position, literally, Mark Cuban, right? Who are going to shake the world and do something completely radical. So here’s the thing. Let’s say you have that meeting. We get that meeting. We’re smoking stogies. We’re playing pool. My first question always to someone in that position is, why? Why are you doing this? What are you thinking about? What is your brand perception in your mind right now? It’s strategy. It’s not necessarily making pretty pictures, because there’s a strategy about who you are, what you want to be, how you want to portray yourself to the world, and hopefully what this looks like again 20 years from now, 50 years from now, after we’re long gone, right? You don’t want to have to redo this in two years. I did a job. A couple of years ago, Nestor, for a Korean baseball team, spoke with a very powerful, wealthy Korean owner of this team, a nationally known figure, a guy with a lot of lot of wealth, a lot of and great guy really had a great vision for this and you know, he trusted so it’s a collaborative conversation. Who are you? What do you want to be? What’s wrong with where you are now? And you’ve got to work through that, and you’ve got to build something, in this case, that listen. You know this. Your listeners know this. Sports logos are different. We get them tattooed on our bodies. But more than that, especially
Nestor Aparicio 25:39
in Philly, especially Philly.
Todd Radom 25:41
8I saw, I saw something in the inquiry the other day about a guy who had, like a gritty on the on a on his bald head, like gigantic on
Nestor Aparicio 25:49
the back. Pretty didn’t exist six years ago. Now that they’re in the playoffs, they’re gonna have, they greased the polls in Fishtown already or No, I’m just not yet, not
Todd Radom 25:57
see if they make it past Pittsburgh.
Nestor Aparicio 25:58
Right? He a lot of ugly beards in Philadelphia. A lot more ugly beards in Philadelphia.
8Todd Radom 26:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, it’s all to say that there is a disciplined process that is involved with this. And there are so many people who are stakeholders, who have their fingers and what these in activating these Logos and uniforms, you want to make sure that everybody has what they need, that it looks good. And again, for me, hopefully it’ll stand the test of time, a very different test than that of a city connect uniform, for example, that is meant to come and go. It’s all about Planned obsolescence.
Nestor Aparicio 26:34
I’m going to ask you this sensitively, because I don’t know the answer to this. And David Modell and I fought famously about this 25 years ago, fought and he and I. You’ll never hear me say a negative word about David ever, because I love David. He never lied to me, but I always say that because a lot of people have lied to me. David Modell never lied to me. I’ve never lied to you. He and I fought about the kiss bird and full disclosure when that, when the sickle B happened, which has always been awkward, left to right, to me, just from an art perspective, on the other side of the helmet, it always looked wrong when the helmets facing left and so but, but the B was disputed with the art and the lawsuit and all the things that went on piss David off to no end, because David thought The guy was full of it. David did not. David was adamant that he did not steal that logo. He died that way. He would never have lied to me if it was borrowed stolen, if somebody inside found out about it and presented it to him, he wouldn’t have had any problem. But he wasn’t going to accept that it was stolen ever. So he said to me, we’re not going to we’re not going to play football under a disputed marking. Literally, the words he said to me, and they came up with this new thing, and he told me how he came up with it, and the B and they were very sensitive to the Orioles not wanting anything to do with Baltimore, Katie and everybody that that’s the real history here. Of the trauma is that the Orioles ran away from Baltimore. Angelos refused to put Baltimore on anything because of the DC connection, until he stole the massive money. So at that point, David leaned into the crest, having the state and city on it, Baltimore, Baltimore, Baltimore, not R Ravens. So that was his mojo at the time, and they presented the logos, and the team would have been called the Americans, had David had his way. That’s what he wanted to call them. He wanted to put a train and the B and O and, you know, like he was into that. And then there was a there was a point where the Ford Motor Company, there was something going on with the word Mustang that the Ravens could have been the Mustangs, and a Ford sponsorship for it was sort of a forward thinking pitch. I think David had for stadium rights. Hey, let’s go logo rights. Mustangs. Give me 20 million a year. We’ll be the Mustangs, right? So, like, David was thinking like that. That didn’t happen. And they put it in the Baltimore Sun, which was a big deal then, not a right wing rip sheet at this point, but back then it was, you know, I worked at the sun. It was legitimate. They had a legitimate poll, and Ravens won by a billion because of Edgar Allan Poe. It had the bird it had. And David was like, hey, if they want ravens, fine art models. Middle name was bertrande, and in Gaelic, it means Raven. You can look that up. It’s honest to God, true. And that freaked David out. And he’s like, we’re the Ravens meant to be so David fell into all of that lived in the city, heard all the buzz, all the oils going into the hole. Then they won the Super Bowl, but they won with the new markings, which were new the week that the pole happened in the sun. I was vacationing. I was young and single in Jamaica, and I just thought the kiss face to the people I talked to the kiss face was going to win, was going to win, was going to win. There was no doubt it was going to win. And I came back off a vacation, and the sickle head bird thing happened, and I shed upon David to no end. I said, David, you picked the wrong logo. Dude, like, What the What are you doing? I don’t even care. Know what the poll said, You picked the wrong logo and but they really did pick the sun logo. I don’t think it was anything fishy or whatever, and they did what they did, but that was really, that’s still the logo they slapped on the helmet the other night. I mean, I thought they were doing radical things, right? So that’s what worried me, is it? Well, it has been 25 years, and maybe Steve went and bought the other logo back because he liked it. And I’m thinking this is really going to come down to what Steve likes at the end of the day. But Steve’s gonna say, hey, Sashi, what do you think Chad? And I’m thinking like, this is the sensitive part. Who’s in on these meetings, other than Mr. Big, like, who else sits in in that South Korean baseball meeting? Is it the team president, the brand leader? Does it have to have a female? Does somebody have to be black, young, white, old, purple? You know what? I don’t know, because I at the end of the day, it does feel like the billionaire that owns the team ain’t gonna let him run around in their pajamas, unless they’re pajamas that he likes. Yeah, I think
Todd Radom 30:53
it’s a good question. And the answer is, it’s gonna bury by team. So if to name a name, George M Steinbrenner was designed, you know, overseeing a rethinking of the Yankees logo, which he would never do, I would suspect that it would just be him making that decision.
Nestor Aparicio 31:09
8So there’s a case where you there is no meeting because he doesn’t want to change it. Well, if you remember
Todd Radom 31:15
those turn ahead the clock logos or uniforms, and I know you do, Nestor from 1999 the Yankees refuse to participate. And it may be apocryphal, but supposedly, Steinbrenner said We’re wearing our uniforms of the future right now. Thank you. Like they
Nestor Aparicio 31:30
just opted out, right I’ve always liked the Ravens uniforms. You and I had a long conversation about the kiss bird when they actually wore it a couple years ago, and they were too small, and we talked about all of that, and I think I told that story, but like, this, um, I didn’t get a chance to jump on the table for the kiss bird years ago. But the one thing I admitted to Luke, and I think you and I’ve talked about this, whether privately, we’ve been together, or even on the air, maybe not even on the air, because it’s like, I the ray. I never thought the Ravens were going to change their logo for us to have an actual conversation about this, but I didn’t love their white. I love white on white. I loved it on Bert Jones, I love white on white, you know, Peyton Manning, even it brings me back, you know, but the white on white that the Ravens wore in Super Bowl 35 that became iconic to Ray Lewis and Rob Woodson and like Jamal was back the other night, all that, I thought there wasn’t enough purple. And I thought their helmet being purple was a mistake, or being black was a mistake at the time, and I thought they’re not purple enough. And I said this to Luke, and I mean this from my soul. I was with the players in and out of the locker room at that period of time, and when they would sweat through the jerseys fourth quarter, the jerseys look black. And if you want to talk to David about that. David would say, I like that, that I ordered that, that when they when that purple gets wet with Tony Sarah goose’s sweat, that thing looks like a bird. I can see the cigar. It looks like a bird with a purple sheen. And he would have a few delightfully profane and he loved that. And I’m like, It’s too dark, David, from up the upper deck, you look like you’re wearing a black helmet and black on white. There’s no purple. There’s not a purple. Put some purple pants on. We ain’t working goddamn purple. I’m wearing purple pants like I could hear him. Will look like Barney, like, you know, I like. So there’s a point where that was the owner, then Steve is the owner now and different in whatever way, but Steve has accepted what David delivered, and hasn’t changed much on it, because he has respect for everything you’re talking about in the brand. And I guess Sashi and Chad and whoever’s in that meeting has to, I know the way that works. They’re all going to genuflect, as they do to Steve, Mr. Basti, and I don’t know how it came down. This is a several year process, though, right? Like when it comes to somebody like you, you present 10 looks, three looks. You have a meeting and say, We want to get rid of the goal, get rid of the shadows. Because when I’ve looked at logos, and you know, I’m big into logos, I always say, give me five looks, man. I want. I want. I want five different ways to do it, to start with, to give me a basis, don’t give me your one and only that would be my that doesn’t
Todd Radom 34:08
happen, that does not happen. And and, you know, let’s be clear, if we’re talking about redesigning a logo, as to making a couple of as opposed to making a couple of tweaks on a uniform, it’s a far more involved process. You know, in an ideal world, I would like to put five or at most seven options out there, because it could be too confusing, and you want to be able to defend what works, what doesn’t, what can be mixed and matched. And that would be color, it would be, you know, typography, it would be angles, it could be line weights. I mean, I don’t want to get into the weeds with this stuff, but redesigning a uniform, the tweaks that the Ravens just unveiled is kind of like, here it is without the drop shadow. Here’s here’s a thing. Here it is with gold. Here’s a different shade of purple, right? Also, I’m just going. Say Nestor ravens is a great name. It really is. It is it is the it’s a badass bird. There’s that Baltimore connectivity that you talk about. The colors are very distinctive, right? In a certain kind of way that Toronto Blue Jays are like that. Except it’s not as bad ass of
8Nestor Aparicio 35:19
a bird. Well, that’s why we were afraid that they’re going to come in and Oregon duckify it, or Atlanta Falcon it. And I’m thinking
35:26
that cock it up, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 35:29
like there’s nothing wrong with it. And it’s for me, they don’t look as good as the ones that yesterday to me like
Todd Radom 35:35
8and get used to it. And here’s the thing, Nestor, and you know this, when you get memories that are attached to these uniforms, and hopefully you give them the runway to, you know, go and run. It’s like raising a kid, put them out into the world. Have the confidence that you’ve done what you could to allow them to to spread their wings like a raven and prosper. You know, you’re going to have moments. It’s not just guys on a runway or, you know, these dark Nike promo pictures, things are going to come to life, basically. And again, all brands evolve. And this is not a radical revolution, it’s an evolution. And I
Nestor Aparicio 36:14
think that’s okay. I wish Luke were here, because he’s such a nerd about this. He loves the uniform thing, and I do too, and we fight about it a little bit. Dude, you have no idea we talked about it. We go 15 minutes, once the show’s over, talking about it like and because we’re like, nobody wants to hear this. But for you, when you see this happen on Thursday night, you see the big party and all that, Luke and I discussed it a little bit this morning. It’s different. When it’s Monday Night Football, and the lights are on the stadium. It’s different. On a sunny day, human
Todd Radom 36:44
beings running around with these things, and they’re stretching and they’re running in front of each other, and it’s not just a static image,
Nestor Aparicio 36:51
all right, so I’m going to be a, I’m going to offend you and everybody right now, which is usually my style anyway, by the way, get out of here. Todd radham’s here. He writes books. He’s an artist, a brand artist, a logo. He’s the he’s my man. So Jackie Robinson, I’m gonna say something flip. I went to the game. So I was at the game. I didn’t realize it was Jackie Robinson day till it was tax day. Like I got tickets from curio. I almost called you me rasig. Brian Poole, my buddy, John Allen, rocker. John Allen, from stone horses, by the way, playing a free show at the auto bar next week. Come down. We get in, we sit down. The Diamondbacks are wearing their pajamas, right? We already went through that. Every guy on the back has a 42 I have no idea who they are. Every guy in the Orioles has a 42 but here’s a big problem, the oils have everybody injured, and they called up some guy named Rodriguez and some guy named Sam Hoff. Of all, he won’t even football player. And they don’t. They have the new scoreboard that they’re bragging about. I’m there in these expensive seats on a hot day, they didn’t have the lineup on the scoreboard. The left fielder misplayed the ball. I still Jonathan, Robert. I don’t know who the hell these guys are. Wilson. Wilson, why? I don’t even, literally, they’re not even on the scorecard. Nobody has their names on their backs. Everybody’s wearing 42 everybody in the stadium’s white. Not everybody. 98% of the people are white. And I’m thinking to myself, you’re keeping on with this Jackie Robinson thing. And I love Jackie, and I’m an Aparicio. I have I like old jerseys, I like the number 42 but I’m at the effing ball game and I don’t know who’s playing, and that’s a problem, dude, and it’s a one day problem, and it’s a baseball and it’s not a problem because it’s Jackie Robinson. How can you say anything? Jackie’s saving the game, and we’re going to get more Africa. And then I go, and it’s not even doing what it was supposed to do. I don’t certainly at the game. It didn’t do for me, which is the first thing you just talked about, which is you got to be able to read the numbers and see the names on the back and know who’s playing, especially in the NFL where, where cornerbacks are wearing single digits now, and linebackers are wearing zeros, and there’s no more 50 threes and 50 twos and 70 eights and, you know, 80 fours catch the ball and like so for me, at a baseball game in the fifth row, I spent the whole game with my dude saying, I don’t even know who that is, and my phone in the sun, I could, we couldn’t see our phones so and we’re sweating nuts. So sometimes these really well intentioned things, like Jackie Robinson day, they don’t play as good as you think they play when you’re actually at the stadium and you’re just trying to figure out who misplayed the ball in left field. And I would say the same thing for serifs on uniforms. And I was an old hockey guy with old farts up in the upper deck at the Civic Center, and we looked down at the Hershey bears. And if they did a redesign, I’m like, is that 16 or 18? Like, you know what I mean, like? So there is a point where these need to be functional. And as Luke said, it’s nice and Merryweather, and I’m too sexy. I’m on the cat book, I’m on the and all the lights are there, but that’s not the way these jerseys are going to play out on game day. And that’s something that I hope. That’s sort of job number one of the artists I think maybe I’m
8Todd Radom 39:57
selling function need to come together. And I think you would agree in the in the 90s, and we are both old enough to remember that very distinctly. You had too many outlines. You had numbers that didn’t read. I think about a buddy of mine who was an NFL team photographer, and when the Jacksonville Jaguars hit the field with all those outlines, he’s like, I can’t read the damn thing. You know? I don’t know who it is, but here’s the thing, as a spectator, and with respect to Jackie Robinson, day, baseball is a pretty static game compared to every other sport we’ve been talking about. And I think, personally, what it sure seems like what you’re talking about is a failure of scoreboards, and we’ve got all this dynamic advertising.
Nestor Aparicio 40:46
I knew that. I knew the temperature.
Todd Radom 40:48
Yeah, you knew who was playing left field. You know where the countdown clock was, but, but you’ve got to have that information locked in in a place where you always know where to find it. Particularly now with this, I was just gonna about to make you bleep a word, but you know what I’m thinking, an S ton of ads and additional stats, which I like those stats, but make it easier on, on the spectator. And, you know, for one game out of 162, to honor Jackie. I love Jackie,
Nestor Aparicio 41:18
8but I was at the game and I was confused. I’m okay, and I just don’t like I wish more African Americans. I wish more humans. I wish more Hispanics. I wish more ICE candidates. I wish more more lacrosse players, more soccer player. I wish they all love baseball. They don’t and and that’s unfortunate, because my last name is Aparicio, and I’m here trying to sell it on their behalf in one way or another. And one more complaint I have while we’re getting off my lawn with Todd Radom, and I’m at the game the left fielder, I don’t even know who he is, misplayed the ball. I was talking to Evan Brown from State Fair, who’s my client, friend, who was sitting in the shade, about how much more comfortable it was in the shade. And I’m this way, and the game’s that way. And I heard and I turned around and was like, The Bad News Bears 42 is chasing 42 into the into the gap to pick up the baseball that clearly had been misplayed. And I turned around and I’m like, What the hell happened? Two runs are scoring. Everybody’s up in arms. And then the billion dollar scoreboard that the people of Maryland paid for, that big scoreboard that they talked about all opening day didn’t show the replay because it didn’t, it would have embarrassed the left field right like so I’m thinking to myself, this is presentation in the ballpark. And I’m thinking, I wish I were home where I could watch the game right now, like I could see the game better. They got to they got a long way to go baseball here, but where you are, baseball thrives in Philly, right? Like, there’s and the logo doesn’t change much, right? You either get Mike Schmidt or you get Richie Ashburn, Curt Schilling, 93 John Brock, like there’s two, it’s good. And they do the city connects that look like pajamas, dude.
Todd Radom 42:59
Like, nobody likes them here. And, you know, like I said, we were out there on Sunday, beautiful day, and I mentioned the fact that, listen, you know, this ballpark is now 20 some odd years old. They work on it every year. There are a couple of new features, nothing radical, but it’s interesting. The Eagles are making noises about a new stadium in South Philly. The Sixers and flyers have now selected the site in the parking lot as they play Jenga down in South Philly where they’re going to
Nestor Aparicio 43:28
put they’re going to put a new arena. Really, yeah, 2030 Yep, they just ripped down the spectrum. Five minutes ago, I cried. Well, they did.
Todd Radom 43:36
And the Fu center is, is a 30 year old building, basically, but, but the Phillies keep investing money in the physical plant every year, and it looks very fresh. The game experience is pretty good there. You know, no complaints.
8Nestor Aparicio 43:51
People know how to get there, right? Everybody’s been coming the same place,
Todd Radom 43:56
and I got to tell you, I’ve lived here now for almost four years, and coming from New York, I always say to myself, who the hell would want to drive to a game?
Nestor Aparicio 44:03
You subway there, right from in Philly, right from North Philly. What’s that? You subway?
Todd Radom 44:08
8Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yep. Take the market Frankfurt line, change underneath City Hall, change to Broad Street, and you’re right at the ballpark. Very, very convenient.
Nestor Aparicio 44:17
My family, my Italian family, live right off of Tasker, right off the subway. My my grandfather’s brother, Frank arena had a bakery, Italian bakery, in the little, rocky neighborhood of the marble steps. And the first time I ever came to Philly was to see that the Phillies in 81 with my dad, my Aparicio dad, and he knew Manny trio, you know, was playing for the Phillies at the time, and Bo Diaz as well, Venezuelan guys. And so we went up to Philly, and we stayed in Midtown, and I took the subway, and it was like this rickety, but I haven’t been on that subway in for 45 years. It’s there. I just forget it’s there. I know it’s underneath when I’m driving Broad Street, because I tried Broad Street. A lot. I mean, I come in Center City, you know? I mean Barry trots, and I had a couple of beers at the Four Seasons, and I drove down to the Fu center to see Brian Adams months ago when the predators were attacked. So like, I know my way around written house, and I was up in North Philly at the Union transfer, seeing that REM thing. So, man, I’m I come to Philly, I just don’t take the subway. I I come in on 95 and I boot into the fu lot, and I put myself against the curb, and I tailgate. I tailgate in front of the Fu center. Every time I go, I park in the same spot. I have my own I have a Philly thing, man. I mean, I do, you
Todd Radom 45:32
know, we’re kind of Philly and Baltimore are like cousins, you know? I mean, it is true, and I don’t have a car, by the way.
Nestor Aparicio 45:39
Yeah, I know, I know I’ll come pick you up. I don’t feel sorry for you if you’re happy taking the subway, take it, man.
8Todd Radom 45:44
It’s great. It’s two blocks away. It’s it’s not beautiful, but it gets
Nestor Aparicio 45:49
the job done. Hey, man, I love you. I know I’ve gone over time. You got to get work done. Todd Radom is here. Hold your book up. Promote your book. I want you. It’s been a little while. God, please.
Todd Radom 45:56
The ballpark and beyond publication date is May the 26th
Nestor Aparicio 46:01
8I can’t even get that yet. Hold on, I can’t get that right now. No, you, well, you
Todd Radom 46:04
could pre order wherever books are sold. I was
Nestor Aparicio 46:07
gonna say I don’t have that book. Why don’t I have that book? It’s not really, it’s a prototype. I have
Todd Radom 46:10
one of the very few bound copies. Oh, okay, a lushly illustrated.
8Nestor Aparicio 46:16
It’s coffee table quality. Dude, that’s great.
Todd Radom 46:19
Congratulations. Nice little, nice little hardcover book. I’ve got my buddy buster only with the Baltimore connections, writing the forward. Take a look for it. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to get out and sell it. Do some signings, and it’s coming.
Nestor Aparicio 46:34
Buster only was one of the first guest ever on my show in 1992 when he was the beat writer for the San Diego soccer’s traveling to Baltimore the play The Baltimore blast, and he came into my studio and five light street in 1992 and he became the Orioles writer soon thereafter. But nonetheless, love you, Buster. See, I’m happy when the Vermont guys do well, you know what I mean, because my wife, Todd Radom, he does art and logos and is my friend, and each cheesesteaks with me and goes to baseball games and yucks it up, even though I run over time for more. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.
