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The management of the Baltimore Orioles fired manager Brandon Hyde and then proceeded to hide for three days. Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the sloppy firing of Hyde and the Orioles’ poor performance, lack of focus and leadership among players. And the new ownership’s awful handling of the entire situation and running from the losing.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the firing of Brandon Hyde and the Orioles’ poor performance. They noted the team’s dismal record of 15-30, with 15 games left on base in a recent game. Luke highlighted the lack of focus and leadership among players, while Nestor criticized the new ownership’s handling of the situation. They compared the current team to past rebuilds, noting the absence of key players like Nelson Cruz. Both agreed that the team’s performance raises questions about management and player development, with Luke expressing concern over the long-term impact on fan interest and revenue.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Brandon Hyde, Orioles leadership, Mike Elias, player accountability, team performance, coaching staff, ownership, rebuild, injuries, fan interest, media tour, player development, run differential, Memorial Day, public perception.

SPEAKERS

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Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 task Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive, and we positively. Have a new manager. I am out in Las Vegas for all things the Maryland party. Luke Jones is back in Maryland for all things the firing Brandon Hyde party. Luke, I’m out here at an event with, uh, all Baltimore people, all Maryland people, and it’s so funny how people and I was wearing my orange Oriole Aparicio jersey from the 70s. And how many people, um, grab me, and they’re like, Hey, let me talk to you. And they whisper at me, what do you think of the firing? I mean, what do you really think? And I’m like, I haven’t rehearsed any of this, but I’ve spoken to 50 or 60 people in Las Vegas, one by one, by one by one. As you know, that doesn’t usually happen to me, but we don’t usually have have firings in the middle of the season, and you and I haven’t spoken at all about it. You had a Saturday that was your family day for you in the morning they do like you’re as shocked as I’m sure. But you know, this feels like scapegoating to me. I don’t know where you’re going to go with it. I just they still sunk after the firing. They’re still going to stink. They stink. You know, maybe it’s the right thing in the long term. But I have no evaluation for this that doesn’t include the players. Well, I’d

Luke Jones  01:19

say this, and I sat there on Sunday afternoon, and we can get into details of the game at some point if we want. I mean, how much does it even matter at this stage? But as it was, a beautiful Sunday afternoon in downtown Baltimore, a beautiful day at Camden Yards. You know what I what thought struck me after getting over the initial disappointment and the human element for anyone you know who loses their job, and as much blood, sweat and tears as Brandon Hyde poured into this and how many lousy years that he managed bad baseball teams, once he gets over that and moves past that, he’s going to have a way better summer than anyone else watching this ball club at this point in time, because that’s how miserable it is. It’s miserable and it’s not fun anyone who’s out at the ballpark. And it was Little League day on Sunday, big crowd, all that. I mean, this is a miserable product right now, and I can’t say I’m shocked in the end result, maybe the timing, maybe I thought it might have come Sunday night during this road trip, now that the Orioles are going to embark upon it was coming. And I think you and I haven’t talked about it since, obviously going back to the middle of last week, but Friday night’s game, they left a season high 15 guys on base. They had some sloppy mental lapses, errors, whatever you want to call them, just what we’ve been talking about all year. And

Nestor Aparicio  02:55

well, they let the winning run run, yes to let the wedding run. I mean, just like

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Luke Jones  03:00

that, we’ve seen too much stuff like that this year. And as I’ve said to you, as much as Mike Elias is number one, top of the list, as far as to blame for this, and as much as I agree with you, the players need to be held accountable. And you know how much I hate what a certain segment of social media fandom is across sports where the players get all the glory when they win, and the manager or the head coach gets all the blame, or the officiating gets all the blame, or the referees get all the blame when you lose. But what I saw Friday night, and that was indicative of not having focus a team that’s lost, a team that’s looked defeated for weeks now. Things that we’ve talked about, that I’ve said have been, to me, a much, much more of a poor reflection on Brandon Hyde and the coaching staff than you know, talking about the lineup on any given night, who’s batting where, who’s playing where, all that kind of stuff, and his post game on Friday night. It was different. It was different. You could see it in his face. You could hear in his voice. And I’m not suggesting that he had just walked in from michaelias Telling him you’re fired or anything, anything like that. I think it was much more of a revelation for him, that the end was coming and that this wasn’t getting better, and he’s been around long enough to know, I mean, I mean way back when he filled in as an interim manager for a game. I believe I’m trying off the top my head, I’m pretty sure, unless I have the details wrong on that. But he’s been around baseball long enough and has been around managers being fired, coaches being fired, all that kind of stuff. And I think Friday night, it was much more of a it’s happening at some point. This isn’t turning around. This isn’t getting better again. I’m not going to sit here and say that I knew it was going to come the next day, because, as you already alluded. To I had a family I had a family party on Saturday, the news came so late and so close to clubhouse availability that me making the 45 minute drive from southern Pennsylvania, I would not have made it in time. And by the way, and I feel like I don’t want to bury the lead here too much, because, as I said, Mike Elias is at the top of the list. There were lots of people that answered questions over the weekend about Brandon Hyde being fired. I think Jackson holiday was the very first player that was, you know, held court in the dugout, you know, before Saturday’s game. But go down the list. Zack, ele, Charlie, Morton, Cade, Povich, Sagano, Adley Rachman, o’hern, you know, go down the list, right? Anyone you could think of Tony mancellino talking about it after the game one on Saturday with his head spinning, and then Sunday morning, acknowledging that he’s very uncomfortable in this position right now. And I don’t think that like meaning an indictment on him. I think it’s a human response. You know, who didn’t take any questions this weekend. Nestor michaelias, you know, who didn’t take any questions this weekend? Nestor David Rubenstein, I think that says something, and I’ll leave it at that. But I think the end felt near whether it was going to be Saturday, Sunday night at some point during this road trip, the day after Memorial Day, because this is a disaster. This is an abject failure, top to bottom for this organization, and it wasn’t getting any better. And we know how this works. And scapegoat or not, Brandon Hyde has to has some culpability. Michaelias

Nestor Aparicio  06:35

doing the firing, or is it David Rubenstein? Well, that’s the you’re unclear they, you know, I don’t know if they would lie about it or not. I could use the Ravens of that, because of ravens lie about everything. I don’t know if David Rubenstein lies. I don’t know if Mike Elias. I don’t feel like they’ve been outwardly dishonest. You’re in the room with them more often than I am, but I have not felt dishonesty on the baseball operation? Yeah, um, you know it may be, since Buck was hiding pitchers in Norfolk at various lights, but happened a lot. That happened a lot yellow game is but, but in this particular case, I’m here with serious executives working for big businesses. They’re all business development people. They’re all a lot of men, a lot of older white men, a lot of baseball fans, a lot of I’ve been with him 40 years. I’m wearing an Oriole jersey. Everybody was coming up and talking to me. And I think the shock part of all of this is, if you or anybody other than me, because I have felt differently about it, because I have dealt with the Whistler, I have dealt with David Rubenstein, I have not dealt with Katie Griggs, which is dealing with Katie Griggs, which speaks a lot to who they are. And I, I speak openly, honestly and candidly in a way that no one else apparently has the courage to or the will to. In regard to the baseball team, I’m going back to Angela’s in the walkout, people come up to me, and they they really seek my wisdom or expertise or opinion on it in any way, and I just say they have an owner that doesn’t know what he’s doing. Doesn’t mean he’s going to be a bad owner. It just means he’s never done this, and it means that he doesn’t know baseball very well, and it means that he doesn’t know fame very well, and it means that he doesn’t know much very well, because he made a bobblehead of himself a month ago. And no one in the history of the games ever done that. No history of North America has done that. Owning a team within a year making a bobblehead of themselves, and not having anybody around him to put the brakes on that and say, well, think about that. So that being said, I don’t know if David Rubenstein drives home from the game Friday. Then I didn’t see him at the game. By the way, he’s on my front running. He’s in the front row when they’re in first place. He’s nowhere to be. I mean, and we’re a year into this, and I’m just telling what I’m seeing. I have no I’m not picking on David Rubenstein or comparing him to Peter Angelos in any way. But this, to me, wouldn’t have been in the modern era. Angelos up in the law firm, firing the manager by Fiat. It felt like, to me, like Peter really was checked out for a long, long time in regard to things like that. Who’s going to be my manager and all of that. And they were losing it like playing 333 ball. Now, does it really matter? It does it doesn’t matter who the manager is gonna be. Anybody bring back Bucha Walter until Adley rutschman hits the ball, which that was your wisdom. And if they get some pitching, that was my wisdom, they can’t win. But in regard to Rubenstein, this firing is a public perception thing. You even said, you know, the manager may have seen a comment or didn’t see it coming when people have asked me about it, I’m like, this is the way they do this in the industry. It’s the way it’s always been. Team goes into a tailspin. You fire the manager, then you wake them up. It’s a wake up call for him. Wait, you know all of that old jargon, you know, scratch your jock strap type talk. But I also know this rarely changes. Anything. Now, you know, there have been managers that come in. It can, but plenty of times it doesn’t, yeah, and I guess for me, this is about the new ownership. And I think the look in the eyes that I had from people, and I mean, I’m telling you, I had 5060, conversations within a day because he got fired. I was in the air. I landed in Las Vegas. There were people on my flight asking me about it, right? Because the flight came from Baltimore. Um, the notion that the franchise was in a great place, heading in a great place, feeling like a great place. Angelo’s is dead. John Angelos is gone. There’s a new guy. He loves Baltimore and the Magna Carta, and he’s knighted by Joe Biden, and he’s a great guy, and he’s here for Baltimore, and the baseball is perfect. They have Mike Elias. He’s a genius Brandon. I they have all these great young players in the move, and now it’s falling apart so quickly that people are reaching and talking to me in some serious tones. I don’t remember. I’ve had more baseball conversations in the last 48 hours than I have had in years and years and years and years and no, and it’s I tell you what you know who loves this Justin Tucker and Chad steel and the Ravens. Because I nobody’s talking to me about the Ravens at all, at all. It was all Brandon high. It was all but once this goes away, and I’ll share this little pearl with you, because we lost Phil Jackman last year. And you remember not well, because you were four, the swoon of 1988 and in 1988 they lost 21 games in a row. And I’ll never forget this. I am 20 years old. I’m with Phil Jackman. It was this time of the year, right? Like it was early May, late April. And as you know, Jackman and I were hockey buddies, and we used to get in the car and go down to CAPS playoff games back in that era. And I remember him saying to me, when they were like, oh and 13, oh and 15, they had set any records. It was just sort of snotty. It was like, they’re Oh 12, right? It’s bad. Jackman said to me, and I’m going to use the language that only Phil Jackman could use with his Worcester accent, that hot shit, when the oh and 12 and they’ll be oh and something. But no one gives a damn about a three and 23 team. And then it’s over with forever. And I’m like, That’s the story. The story is the firing happened, and it’s all a big thing or whatever, and now they are going to while away in obscurity, and they’re going to go right back to where they were when Peter owned the team, which is, you and I are going to watch them maybe, and we’re going to talk about them. Most people aren’t going to watch them. I’m not going to have three weeks from now, people aren’t going to be coming up to me and saying, how’s that? Tony man? Saying, how’s that Tony manzalino working they or how’s that David Rubenstein thing working out? And I’m just saying they have a new owner. And all of this hope, all of the promise, all the Cal Ripken behind home plate, all of that, uh, inertia, you know, all of that momentum that they had sort of built up. It’s just all over with, and now we’re just talking about a really bad baseball team, the way Phil Jackman said, you know, yeah,

Luke Jones  13:07

I, I agree with you completely. I mean, short of the scenario where, you know, for and I don’t, I don’t think there were too many people left at this point. I mean, look at every coach, every manager, everyone has their detractors, right? I mean, there are still people that don’t believe in Lamar Jackson as one of the very best football players on the planet, regardless of still needing to break through in January. I mean, the record, the track record, the body of work and the regular season speaks for itself, right? But you’ll still find people on the internet who sound insane at this point in time, or worse things than that, quite frankly. But even if you were the biggest Brandon Hyde critic, short of this team winning 12 or 13 as soon as they fire them, you’re right. It all goes and we saw how it looked. You know, Kyle Gibson couldn’t get out of the first inning on Saturday, and Zach Eflin has his worst start as an Oriole on Sunday, and it’s like camp can’t blame Brandon hide for either of those things. And again, I say that fully acknowledging that I think a move had to be made because this team wasn’t responding. But that said,

Nestor Aparicio  14:14

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well, that that would be the your fan speak what you just said, a move had to be made. A mood and move had. That’s the baseball speed. That’s fan speed, but that’s baseball speed. That’s the way it’s Sure, right? And that is the way the business works. Yeah, it does. It doesn’t fix things. It is window dressing. True. There are

Luke Jones  14:36

times when it’s fixed things, but I think a lot of those times are when a club has a deficiency, or a Club’s going through a rough patch, in the sense of, maybe you’re losing a lot of one run games, you know, maybe, I mean, this is just, I’ve said this to you a couple times. I’ve talked about this with people in my life who aren’t even. Big baseball fans. I don’t say this to be dramatic or over the top. I’ve been troubled by this baseball team, and what I mean by that is, I’ve watched baseball my whole life. I like to think I know a little bit about it. I don’t know more than everyone else, let’s be clear, but I like to think I know a little bit about it, and I’ve covered a lot of baseball. I’ve watched the Orioles from the time I was two years old, you know, I, you know, from probably 1990 ish is when I, for as much as a seven year old can started thinking about it in an intellectual way. I was that I was the kid that read baseball almanacs over and over because you didn’t have the internet to, you know, you memorize stats and you learn the history that way. But I’ve said this, and I’ve even had other people in my life older than me, people that have watched the Orioles their entire lives. I’ve never seen anything like this in terms of, Look, I get the injuries, I get the concerns about where the pitching was on paper. But for this to be as a colossal failure, as it’s been across the board, this team, if, on March

Nestor Aparicio  16:11

20, when we went to Toronto, if you would have told me they’re firing Brandon Hyde would be in last place. I would have been Saturday. I would have bet anything I had that now, if, if knowing the injuries

Luke Jones  16:22

that they’ve had, if they were a game or two under 500 right now, I’d buy that if you told me the script in that way. But for this season to be over before Memorial Day, and it’s over now. It’s over there. 15 and 30. It’s over this team, regardless of what we thought about its reputation on paper and its talent and its potential on paper, how we perceived it to

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Nestor Aparicio  16:49

be, well, not huge gambling public was Abraham. No, the world thought nine. No

Luke Jones  16:53

question. This isn’t. This isn’t. I mean, I’ve made some loose comparisons here to, you know, 2010 tremblies Last year, no one thought they were going to be like a playoff team. But there was a thought at that point. Leaders is here. Marques is already here. Jones is looking like a good player coming over from Seattle a couple years ago, like you went down the list and you said, Okay, maybe there’s a path to the 2010 Orioles being decent. Maybe they could be a 500 club. And they started so horribly that year, Dave Trembley was gone by, like June 3. So that year’s come to mind. And then 2018 the last Duquette Showalter era, year of that era, where, you know, they had had that bad September the previous year, but remember, they had, they had brought in Cashner, they had brought in Alex Cobb. There was still some semblance of hope that, I mean, they were trying to win. And I think even people that weren’t really buying that they were legit. I think I, I think I picked them to go like 79 and 83 that year, 80 and 82 I, I still thought they were going to be 500 ish, you know, hang around in the wild card race until August, let’s say, but that we know that team ended up losing more games than any team in Oreos history. So acknowledging those two years, what I have seen this year, I’ve just been completely dumbfounded by in terms of just how bad it’s been, other than its perception and reputation and what we thought it was going to be on paper. If you just watch the games themselves, this team has exuded no redeemable qualities whatsoever. Are there a few individual players having good season? Sure, with the latest being Jackson holiday over the last month, is starting to look like the guy that everyone thought he was going to be. Now, is he going to be an MVP of the league? Who knows? Right? Certainly not this year. I mean, five years from now, I have no idea, but he’s at least very much, has an upward trajectory. But this across the board, their pitching is awful. They’re hitting is, I’m ready to say awful at this point in time, their defense has been bad. They don’t run the bases particularly well. They’re pitching, you know, whether rotation or bullpen, both bad. I mean, there’s nothing about this team whatsoever that suggests that they’re going to turn it around. And obviously, mathematically speaking, now, you know, you’re, you’re in the territory where, like, it’s not even if, it even if they were trans, you know, they had a transplant of talent, or something like that, you’d have to play so well the rest of the year, just to, you know, be in the wild card race, let alone anything more than that. But I

Nestor Aparicio  19:21

had a guy in Vegas say to me, they look like they don’t even like each other that. I mean, I don’t

Luke Jones  19:25

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think it’s that. And I just they just seem they’re just seems so lost like and this is where you get into leadership. You get into the lack of veteran players, or even the veteran players you have, but no one really carries that you know someone that, like Nelson Cruz, for example, you think about what he was for the 2014 Orioles, and it’s not like the Orioles didn’t have leadership or or didn’t have good young players. They

Nestor Aparicio  19:51

had what they thought Kyle Gibson was that two years ago for them, but, but at the same but

Luke Jones  19:55

Kyle Gibson’s only so much. You know what I mean in terms of like, who he is as a player. There like Nelson Cruz comes in, and it’s all star level credibility now, regardless, he did have a PED suspension a couple years before that, so, but he carried that kind of clout in the same way that any Orioles fan who knows their history knows what about the Orioles of the early to mid 60s. Frank Robinson came in and taught them how to win. Jim Palmer’s famously said that quote, how many times over the last six decades? I mean, it’s just, you know, that’s what you’re talking about. So I think there’s that. I think there’s something to, you know, we’ve talked about the hitting coaches. I mean, this the makeup of this coaching staff in general, and especially now you now that you fired Brandon Hyde. It’s a very young, relatively inexperienced coaching staff. So an analytics space, very short, sure, sure. So, so, so you It begs all the questions, do you have too many voices? Is there information overload? Do you not have the right voices, like all the different questions you asked that Mike Elias wasn’t around to answer this weekend, and I’m going to continue to point that out. Because, again, I think it’s poor form, especially when the guy that you did a media tour less than two weeks ago giving up, you know, the the dreaded vote of confidence. And we know how that works, right? I mean, I’m not, it’s not so much that he did it. It’s you gotta answer questions some if you fire Brandon Brandon Hyde, one of his bosses has to talk. I

Nestor Aparicio  21:21

thought the press release looked like it was written by the whistler or somebody outside the realm, but, but, but this is style, right? Sure, for new ownership. This is how new ownership is, because at the end of the day, Luke, you’re going to blame the players and have all the baseball speak. The owner is going to make every decision moving forward, every nobody, everything bad is going to have

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Luke Jones  21:45

to address before we start getting into that too much. And I agree that

Nestor Aparicio  21:49

being said now, the next thing he’s going to do is fire Elias, right? Well, so then, then, who then becomes in charge of baseball and impresses Rubenstein. And now you’re talking about that R word rebuild, right? I guess.

Luke Jones  22:06

I mean, I’m not there yet. I mean, say this, if Mike Elias even hints at that, the very first question is, what gives you a right to have to be able to do that again? Like, you know what? I mean, like, what have you done that that would entitle you the the trust to do that again? Anyway, let me just finish my thought on well, you’re on him, So fair enough, it should be on him. And look, I’m not discounting what you’re saying about ownership, if we get to that point after the season. But michaelias has to answer for all this, because he has been in charge. I mean, the one thing that I will be grudgingly give John Angelos a little bit of credit for is that they hired Mike, Mike Elias, and they got out of the way. Now, they didn’t let him spend a whole lot of money, but at this point, I’m starting to wonder, like, how much of this is that, and how much of this is Mike Elias thinks he can do things the way he wants to do it, and so be it. I mean, spent money this off season. He didn’t spend it well, but, but now, just to finish what I was talking about with the players, because you, you had made the comment, you know, that someone had said to you, it looked like they don’t even like each other. You know, it’s not, I don’t think it’s anything like that. I think these guys get along just fine. I do think they’re lost. I do think they’re There’s lack a lack of leadership. I do think what’s become crystallized for me that has been talked about at various times over the last couple years, going back to when they were swept by the rangers to two Octobers ago is, I think it’s become very painfully obvious that they’ve relied way too heavily on their young core. And that’s not to not to give those guys a pass. Let me be clear on that, because ultimately, all those guys take blame for this too. You know. Look, those guys are as at you know, they don’t get a pass. You know, they’re not absolved here, because, as I pointed out, Adley rutschman’s 27 years old. You know, Jackson holiday, I’ll give the little more of grace to meaning. You know, he’s still within his first full season as a major leaguer, and he’s 21 years well, Adley Rush

Nestor Aparicio  24:18

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was not in the prime of his career. I don’t know what the prime is going to be, right?

Luke Jones  24:21

That’s what I’m saying, right? And that that’s why, going back to last, the second half of last year, you’ve heard my urgency and concern as far as why Adley rutschman has looked the way he has now for going on 11 months of real time, but, but I just think so much of this at this point, I’m just, I’m at a loss for just how much, how quickly this is falling apart. And you alluded to it. I mean, I still think back to that day you and I were at Costas, you know, having a having lunch, and the Orioles absolutely embarrassing the Yankees to finish off a series win in the Bronx. And, you know, they. Are 24 games over 500 at that point, and you look at what the record has been since then. I mean, they went four under the rest of last year. They were swept in the two games against Kansas City, and they’re 15 games under 500 through the close of business on Sunday. You know when they’re

Nestor Aparicio  25:15

21 games under 500 I mean, they’ve been a

Luke Jones  25:19

not just a bad but a really bad team. And what the what’s concerning is it’s just getting progressively worse. They weren’t horrible in the second half last year. Let’s let’s be fair. As far as what it was, they were middling. They were mediocre. They were a few games under 500 from late June through the end of the season. That’s not horrendous. That’s not the rebuild era or anything like that, but it was clearly a drop off. And now what we’re seeing in 2025 is the kind of horrendous baseball that is resembling what they look like in the rebuild. You know, two weeks ago, if you would ask me, regardless of what the Orioles pace was, are they going to finish at that pace? I would have said no, of course not. Now I’m starting to wonder if this team is going to lose 100 games because of just how absurdly lost, lost they look. Well, they’re going to not get pitched. They’re not going to get pitching. And that’s the thing. I mean, look, will they, at some point go through a stretch where they’re playing better? Sure, I guess, you know, I mean, May, all we talked about the beginning of May was look at the schedule like it’s on paper. This is if they’re going to get back into it,

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Nestor Aparicio  26:32

they’re pitching, I don’t know how they win six out of 10 games, right? I mean, you go six and four and 10 games with that pitching is going to be I

Luke Jones  26:40

do if they start hitting the ball like we even somewhat like we thought they might, maybe they could, but that’s what I’m saying. I mean, there’s to go back to your point about the manager and you know, making changes. Are there times where that does work? Sure. I mean, fans have thrown it out there a lot with Joe Girardi being canned and right around, I think right after Memorial Day for the Phillies, back in 22 Rob Thompson takes over. Phillies went to the World Series. No, they were a wild card, and they got hot in October and all that, but you still looked at that team, and I think there was more of a sense of they’re underperforming. But, you know, there’s, you know, just, it just felt off. This is just bad across the board. This team underperforms, at least relative to what we thought. They’re hurt, you know, because they have had a lot of injuries, and that is absolutely part of the story. And they’ve also, they’ve also had some unlucky, unfortunate elements as well, which, you know, again, I don’t want to dwell on that, because that’s, that’s the cop out. But you put those three things together, that that equates to a horrendous baseball team, and they are horrendous. I mean, there are, like I said, in terms of what we’ve actually seen, in terms of the run differential, the record, the pitching statistics, the hitting statistics, the fielding statistics, base running. There are no redeemable qualities about this club. As far as anything you can point to, where you say, doing that, or, okay, the rotation stinks, but, you know, the bullpen the first two and a half weeks of the season actually performed pretty well. I mean, since then, the bullpens been almost as bad as the rotation, right? I mean, and so that’s where you look at this thing and say, That’s why I kind of, you know, again, being facetious, but not entirely in saying, I think once Brandon Hyde gets over the disappointment of the next couple weeks and the fact that, hey, you know, however much time he had left on his contract, he’s he’s gonna get paid all that, he’s gonna have a great summer, whereas the rest of the rest of, uh, everyone connected to Orioles baseball is going to be subjected to this. And but that gets back to your point that as the dust settles, and okay, everyone who was calling for Brandon Hyde to be fired, and again, I’m not disagreeing with the move. Things were that bad, and Brandon Hyde had to own his part of it as well, right? And the manager is the first one to go in these kind of scenarios. We all understand that. But that said, as that dust settles and you see that the team’s just as bad under Tony mancillino, then you do get to the point where attention starts to drop off in I mean, interest has already fallen off.

Nestor Aparicio  29:35

Well, not just interest. This is for Miss Griggs, all of those people unplugging their the the mass and subscription on June. They better

Luke Jones  29:43

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hope they got a lot of people to buy for the rest of the season, because if they only did the 1999 month to month, and yeah, no question about

Nestor Aparicio  29:49

it, so and they’re rolling that thing out thinking there was going to be revenue in it. In the future, they will get no sign ups at all the next four months, right there, no one’s going to sign. Up for this. The only

Luke Jones  30:00

ones you’ll get are the die hards that are cutting the cord and, you know, and I’ve laid out some of those scenarios to you, like, you know, I’ve already bounced around from but to

Nestor Aparicio  30:09

your point, growing the brand, growing the attendance, showing the sponsorships. I’m out here at a pool. I mean, you

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Luke Jones  30:13

better come up with some more bobble heads. That’s about what I would say in terms of whatever you’re going to salvage. I mean, that that’s where we are right now. I mean,

Nestor Aparicio  30:20

and think about this, and that’s Angelo Sarah, think about that’s that’s bad, even,

Luke Jones  30:24

even in terms of where they were in the rebuild. You know, throw out 2020 because it was COVID year. No fans were in attendance anyway. But when you look at those years, what did you at least have around the corner. You are monitoring when guys are going to be caught up and promoted, and that, well, is mostly not now you sambasayo is the big one who I think there’s a very reasonable chance we’re going to see later this summer. You know, we’ll see Mayo back here at some point, but we’ve already seen mayo. You know, at this point it’s like bracing, like, okay, Are you finally going to start performing? But

Nestor Aparicio  31:05

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I don’t want to piss you off. On a week I say Kyle Stowers, I was just, I was going to say, Yeah,

Luke Jones  31:11

I’m happy for him. Because look, and when the more Kyle Stowers stories you have, the more you start to question, are the Orioles really as smart as they thought they were, you know, meaning Elias and sigma del and player development and all of their processes and all of that, you start to question it now, Kyle Stowers might fall off in the next two months and but I saw Mark DeRosa on MLB Network, you know their their morning show. He did a full breakdown, and it had Kyle Stowers, you know his stances. He’s widened up his stance. He’s made some adjustments. Now that’s not to I’m not making saying that as a full indictment of the Orioles, because how many stories have we seen? Ryan o’hearns, a perfect example of someone who failed in Kansas City, came to Baltimore and has been a really productive player the last three years. So every team has some of that. But when you see that. And when you see how some of the Orioles young players, in some cases, have regressed, like Adley Rachman, and you know, in other cases, haven’t really figured it out at the major league level, like a Heston kerstad. And you know, fully acknowledging it’s not like he’s been around for three years straight in the major leagues. And the one guy that’s really trending upward, Jackson holiday, we’ve heard recently, it was his dad that made and again, I don’t want to pick on the Orioles too much on that. That’s a pretty exceptional This isn’t some some ball players father, who’s a high school coach, and you know, you know, we were talking about Matt holiday, a whole a very good kind of player, but all of that adding up you do. How can you not ask questions? I mean, I’ll throw another one out here. And I thought there was some there was some interesting irony or not, but Cade Stroud made his major league debut on Sunday for the Orioles out of the bullpen. You know, they after they designated Kyle Gibson for assignment, we’ll see Gibson may end up staying in the or staying in the organization, maybe the outright, or maybe it’s a wink, wink, wink wink kind of deal to try to get him straightened out, because he’s been, I mean, just awful. He’d be the first, he’s the first to tell you he’s been awful. But cage you know what made that interesting? Cade Stroud is the first pitcher that Mike Elias has drafted with the Orioles to have made the major leagues. That was six years ago. Now, we all know that they haven’t emphasized pitching, but Well, now

Nestor Aparicio  33:34

you have to question whether that was a good idea

Luke Jones  33:37

or not. Well, there’s that. And, you know, I mean, I would also look at. I mean, even, even when you look at and it’s not like they don’t have their success stories. I mean, they developed Kyle Bradish, right? I mean, Kyle Bradish was, was in, was the top piece they acquired in the Dylan Bundy trade. And, you know, it’s not like he was in triple A at that point. They developed him. So again, it’s not like it’s an utter failure across the board. But when you go through a calendar year like the Orioles are approaching the, you know, coming up on, you know, 11 months, you know, since they were at their best last year, how can you not start to poke holes in all this and start to question all of this and start to really wonder about this. I mean, I’ve said this to you. I mean, I’ve said it from a building standpoint, from a development standpoint, from a, you know, all of that, you know, the rebuild part of the michaelias era. I mean, they won 101 games two years ago. I mean, how can you say that wasn’t a successful rebuild? But from that point on, I think the kindest way you could put it is underwhelming in describing michaeliais Well,

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Nestor Aparicio  34:45

the injuries took over. The deals weren’t very good for Flaherty and Fuji and and then last summer, Trevor Rogers tower

Luke Jones  34:54

was good. But Trevor Rogers, I mean that that deals a disaster. I mean Trevor. Even he’s back pitching again, but it’s nothing about how he’s performing a triple A makes you think he’s gonna be able to come here and help them. So you just this has been so bad across the board. And again, I’ve said this over and over. I try not to repeat myself, but that’s how bewildered I am by all this. It’s been stressful for me, racking my brain, trying to figure out not why it’s bad. Because, again, I am, I can identify that, but why is it this bad across the board? Why is everything failed, just about even things that you thought were great that aren’t great anymore, like Adley rutschman. I mean, two for two calendar years, he looked like a fringe MVP candidate, and suddenly can’t play anymore. Fans wanted to give him $300 million Hey. I mean, even though I don’t put him in the same category. I mean, let’s face it, it’s now been about a year since gunner Henderson look has looked like the guy you thought might be MVP. You know, he’s been merely good since then. You know, so and look, he may end up just being a good player, and that’s okay. But when you see all the other failures and not okay because you can’t win, he has to be well, I’m just nobody else is coming along, right? But Jackson holiday

Nestor Aparicio  36:15

will be Willie Mays, maybe Westfield, maybe right? But like

Luke Jones  36:19

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all of that together, when you’re talking about everyone either regressing or just not being as good as you thought, that’s when you question all this and just say, is, you know, is Michaelia is the right guy for the job. I think it needs to be asked, you know. I mean, what? So

Nestor Aparicio  36:36

well, maybe that’s the reason he to come and face you guys. Because if he’s facing me, I’d have to ask him, like, you know, manager took the fall for this where, you know, how are you sleeping, pal, you know what I mean, like, you know, he would

Luke Jones  36:48

have been asked, I mean, maybe not worded exactly like that, but he’s gonna be asked that question, you know. I mean, first, one of the first things you ask is Brandon you said about 10 days ago that, or not, Brandon Mike, you said about 10 days ago that whatever is what’s plaguing the Orioles is not the responsibility of the manager. It’s not the manager’s fault. So why was he fired? But we also know, in reality, regardless of whether it’s ownership or GM or some combination of both, we also know you support, you support, you support you. Utter votes of confidence, votes of confidence, until they aren’t there anymore. You know, you never hedged, right? If you hedge publicly, you’re already, you know, you’ve already buried the guy. So, so we, we understand there’s a psychology that goes to that part of it. But, I mean, this is, I don’t know. I really don’t know. Like this team has stressed me out, because I’m racking my brain at just how bad it’s been, not that it’s been bad, but how bad it’s been the fact that we’re talking about a team in terms of having records through a quarter of the season that resembled the 1988 Orioles and the 2010 Orioles and the 2018 and 19 and 21 Orioles, you know, some of the various they haven’t won in a week. In 1954,

Nestor Aparicio  38:09

100 games, you know, they’re losing seven and nothing in the second inning.

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Luke Jones  38:12

I mean, these aren’t, these aren’t one run losses, you know, bad luck. Yes, they have this. I mean, there are certain elements, like I said, you could point to a few things, and I think maybe they had some tougher luck early in the year, earlier in the year, but I mean, they have the second worst run differential in baseball, if it weren’t for the Colorado Rockies truly being historically, historically terrible, I would say the Orioles might be The worst team in baseball. You know, if you took the Rockies out of it, they might be the second worst team in baseball. They’re not win loss wise, and I think they’re really, really bad.

Nestor Aparicio  38:48

As we continue this conversation, and we will, the question is going to be, how do they in this? Where do they go finish 10 games under 500 instead of 25 now that they’re 15 under, right now, you’re 15 under. Can you get it to eight under by the end of the year, as opposed to going 32 under, which I’ll

Luke Jones  39:06

take the eyeball looking back, right? I’ll take the eyeball test looking better at this point. You’re not gonna You’re not turning this around. But, man, I need to see some signs that this thing is getting back on track, or then we will be talking about ownership and what’s gonna happen.

Nestor Aparicio  39:20

Well, we’ve talked a lot about Elias and ownership and brand, and I will continue on about the actual players in a weekend. I remember when getting swept by the Washington Nationals was like, the worst possible thing that could possibly happen to the Orioles. And it’s just, it’s, it’s been unbelievable how quickly Justin Tucker has gone away here for the ravens, and we were all waiting on Raven season here in OTAs later in the month, Luke can be found at Baltimore. Luke, I can be found at the pool of Las Vegas, at least for one more day I am at the Maryland party. Big appreciation to Howard Perlow and his whole group in residential title for inviting us out, as well as Bill Cole and Cole roofing and Gordian energy for sending me to. Las Vegas. I had a a an equipment failure in actually a power failure in Las Vegas. So we will not hear poolside chats, but all the guests are going to be coming on, including Brooke learman And Brandon Scott, a whole bunch of other people that I’ve run into out here in Las Vegas. We’re going to continue the baseball conversation as we can sit continue the week. It is certainly not the direction we thought we were going to be talking about a last place baseball team and a fired manager. He’s Luke gum Nestor. We are W, N, S T AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive. You.

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