Luke Jones prepares Dennis Koulatsos for all that happens for Ravens after Greg Roman era
lamar jackson, ravens, lamar, point, quarterback, wide receiver, guaranteed, years, played, talking, contract, game, dennis, roster, deal, baltimore, team, season, tag, luke
Dennis Koulatsos 00:02
Welcome back. My next guest is our very own Luke Jones always bringing the heat and the knowledge from places far north undisclosed to mankind. Luke welcome in.
Luke Jones 00:13
Dennis how are you? Yes. Coming to you from Parts Unknown right Parts Unknown
Dennis Koulatsos 00:17
right from the aisle of something so interesting week Luke interesting weekend ravens game, not the outcome that we wanted. But the most watched the game since the Super Bowl, the whole nation was watching it ravens went toe to toe had a horrific turn of events, there with that 98 yard, fumble interception, whatever you want to call it return. And that game turn 14 point swing look hard to overcome when you have less than the explosive offense when Lamar Jackson isn’t there. And what I noticed is that the teams now whether it’s the coach losing to the Vikings, or the Chargers losing to the Jaguars, these 2730 Point deficits with the way that the league is if you have enough weapons, you can come back for big deficits.
Luke Jones 01:08
Yeah, and I mean, you know, maybe maybe the 27th or the 30. That, you know, that’s still the more extreme side, but my goodness, how many times have we and we’ve talked about it throughout the offseason or throughout the season, Dennis that a 17 point lead isn’t what it used to be. And we saw that firsthand. We saw that firsthand with the Ravens this year.
Dennis Koulatsos 01:25
Because I think the game is morphing more to an arena football now with with with a with a rule favoring the offense and you have to take advantage of them, which is something I haven’t done for a long, long time.
Luke Jones 01:35
And no question about it. No question about it. But I mean, it’s I think for the ravens, you know, to go back to what you said was Sam Hubbard and the fumble, fumble, recovery and return and I mean, the ball goes right to him, you know, inexcusable for Tyler Huntley to fumble at the Gold Line. There’s no question about that. You can’t make an excuse for that. However, the luck of the ball just going right to Sam Hubbard, and he’s off to the races. That’s some bad luck there. That element of it was some bad luck. But, you know, you just you kind of look at the Ravens. And as I wrote a Baltimore positive.com, in the aftermath of the 2417 loss, it’s kind of where they’ve been, they’re close. Right? You know, they they’ve played Kansas City hard. They beat in Kansas City, you know, buffalo, they played hard earlier this year, not the Bengals on Sunday night. They’re close. But you know, what needs to be done for them to get over the hump. And now, clearly, Lamar Jackson’s health was a massive part of it the last couple of years, and we’re gonna have to see how that plays out. And I still will say, I don’t know exactly what’s going to happen. Do I feel less confident about Lamar Jackson being a raven in 2023 than I did? Five months ago? Or certainly a year or two ago? Of course, I mean, you know, I don’t think I think even the most optimistic Ravens fan, how can you look at it after two years of negotiations and say that you’re confident he’s going to be here doesn’t mean he won’t be here. But boy, you have to just start acknowledging the reality of the situation and how much trust or lack thereof there is at this point between both sides and I think both sides have a very legit responsibility in that but
Dennis Koulatsos 03:14
look, let me let me interrupt real quick let me ask you a question. What is the last time that a franchise quarterback has played out his contract because I didn’t look it up and I want to look it up but from memory I can’t recall a franchise caliber quarterback not being extended before its contract expired. I just don’t recall what the Kyler Murray or whoever you want to talk about. Aaron Rodgers. I just don’t recall a quarterback reaching his final contract here. A franchise type and not being extended prior to its completion.
Luke Jones 03:44
I mean, really Dak Prescott and you know, we can we can debate where I mean, that’s clearly a franchise quarterback. We can debate where he falls on that, you know, Kirk Cousins before that with, you know, Washington and to franchise tax, but you’re right, but it’s very rare. It’s very
Dennis Koulatsos 03:57
rare, right? Extremely rare. And the other piece I want to comment on to get your thoughts on I saw you breaking down on Twitter and then w NST. In Baltimore positive, the Ravens roster the the the free agent, I think, if nothing else, and I get the familiarity with divisional foes, although two years ago when the Bengals put up 82 points into game, the rate on the Ravens that didn’t help with a lot of injuries in the Ravens roster. But I think the Ravens did show that they have a good enough roster to be competitive even with that Lamar Jackson. So this is a good roster. Let’s not make a mistake that this is this is a bad football team. This is a good football team. But but the Good to Great Leap is when you have that great quarterback.
Luke Jones 04:38
Yeah, no question and not just the great quarterback, but you’ve got to have a better passing game. I mean, looking at it, divisional round weekend, Dennis, I can give you just about any metric you want. I’ve got DVOA which is football outsiders. I could give you EPA which is another sabermetrics nerd you know, a stat that’s you know that football nerds like really like yards per attempt, passing yards per game, and just about, you know, of those eight teams in the divisional round. Yeah, the giants are really the only one you could point to and say, All right, that’s not a very high volume passing attack, but even the Giants 10th In DVOA, pass passing DVOA. And they’re twelth and drop back EPA. I mean, now the Ravens they were number one in the league in passing DVOA and EPA back in 2019. Since then, they’ve been no better than 14th 19th 13th and finishing 13th This year, that’s with the first three weeks of the season. They went nuts, right? I mean, Lamar, I 10 touchdown passes the first three weeks. So So yeah, so your point is well taken. I mean, I would say this roster, putting aside quarterback because we just don’t know what’s going to happen at this point in time. But I look at this roster, wide receiver needs a ton of work. There’s no question no sugarcoating that, and corner other than Marlon Humphrey, they’ve they’ve got some work to do at corner because you know, assuming Marcus Peters isn’t back, and I don’t know that, but my gut tells me he’s probably not back. You’re gonna have to do work there. And you’re hoping some of the young guys come along to give you good depth. But those are the two positions but other than beyond those two positions. And let’s be clear, those are really important positions. But beyond that, yeah, you feel good about the offensive line even if Ben powers leaves as a free agent as I expect them to and you feel good about certainly feel good about linebackers, you’re feeling better about they still have some work to do there. But there’s a lot of potential what outside linebacker and bat Bowser will be another year removed from the Achilles same with a job Oh, as disappointing as adopt a oh a was this season, played some of his best football the last couple of weeks are hoping that springboards him into a good offseason. And he finally realizes that potential but But your point is well taken. I mean, they compete. I’ve said over and over with this current formula that the Ravens have from a philosophy standpoint, John Harbaugh and his staff what Eric Acosta has done, they’ve established a very high floor, meaning you can feel short of the Ravens having a ton of injuries and even the year, they had a ton of injuries, they went eight, nine, they’re gonna win a lot of football games in the regular season. But it’s that matter of what you just said, going from good to great or going from high floor to higher ceiling. That’s the challenge right now. And that’s where they’ve come up short. And some of it’s been some some tough luck. Some of its been some injuries, some of it’s been some questionable decisions. Some of it’s been some flawed roster building, you know, but it’s added up to, despite having this transcendent talent at the quarterback position. And what Lamar has been able to do when he’s been on the field, it’s added up. It’s been adding up to one playoff win. And in five years. I mean, that’s it’s nothing to brag about, doesn’t mean it’s terrible, either. But it’s nothing to brag about. And it’s certainly not something to rest on which you can, you know, be sitting there resting on your laurels and saying we’re fine. They’ve got work to do. So
Dennis Koulatsos 08:07
let me ask this in reading your article to you talk about where they are with the cap space. So if they were to tag Lamar Jackson, right, what did that do to their cap? For 2023? They can’t go out and get players, right? They can’t sign that wide receiver. They can’t trade and sign a you know, let’s say DeAndre Hopkins or whoever else is out there. And there’s a lot of guys out here but so by tying up all that money in your quarterback now, you have to make some tough decision difficult decisions on your roster. And like you said, they got some massive holes on this offense and how to elevate it.
Luke Jones 08:41
Yeah, and that’s where it’s so tough to look at this thing and just say, Well, you know, in a vacuum, you know what I’d love to do if I could control all the variables at this point in time, I would franchise Lamar Jackson and I’d have a new offensive coordinator. I’d have a bring in another least one one a kind of receiver to half air with Bateman. And that would be a veteran by the way if I could do it, you know, someone is not a rookie first
Dennis Koulatsos 09:07
round draft pick. For the Rams want to trick take a 22 I’m saying a cornerback. They’re like no, no, they need a wide receiver. I’m like no, no, they need a quarterback they need to trade for proven wide receiver because you know what, for whatever reason, the start them never lined where they got that wide receiver one.
Luke Jones 09:23
And to be clear, I would had a wide receiver and I would still look to draft one not in the first round but it would be absolutely no third or fourth round, you know somewhere in that neighborhood. But again, this is my in a vacuum kind of plan right? So I would do those things and make some philosophical shifts here to emphasize the passing game a little more. And I’d want to see what it looks like because here’s the other part of the status that is uncomfortable for a lot of people that are almost at this point unconditional Lamar Jackson fans and I get it. His MVP three years ago was amazing. His story In 2019 season, but here’s the truth. His number since then, hadn’t been as good and in some stretches haven’t been close to that. And we can keep talking about other elements. But if you’re talking about needing to make a $250 million commitment and how some people want to the ravens to make a fully guaranteed 230 plus million dollar commitment, then I need to see better performance than I’ve seen from a passing standpoint. We’ve seen the last two years here’s been the inconvenient truth. The Ravens the last two seasons have come out the gate throwing the football Well, my goodness, we all remember the week five game you had against Indianapolis. I mean, he looked like Dan Marino two years ago, when he had that performance. However, you look at his performance from that moment until he got hurt. And what was it week? 13. I guess it was 14, whatever it was against Cleveland is his passing numbers really fell off from that point, you know, that middle of the season. He struggled you know, he’s throwing picks not producing a whole lot in terms of through the air. Last season, you know, now last season 2022. This this season that just came to an end, first three games of the season, Lamar was looking like 2019 like Lamar 10 touchdown passes, first three weeks, go look at the numbers from Week Four until he gets hurt in the Denver game. yards per attempt was right around six. I mean, 6.0 You know, right around there. That’s bad. And
Dennis Koulatsos 11:30
it’s bad. But in his defense was this reveal point counterpoint. He also lost his his wide receiver one who was offered a very dynamic sword so understood, but how my biggest concern with him Luke is the fact is and you can’t, you can’t ignore it. He hasn’t played the game with December for two years in a row. And that’s not saying he’s running quarterback. I didn’t say that. I’ll never say that. He got hurt in the pocket. But but the point is, he got hurt. He’d been hurt two years in a row.
Luke Jones 11:56
Right now. I hear you and I’ll get to that part of it in a moment. But the thing I will say is, but then if you’re going to tell me that and look, that’s fair. And I agree. I said before Rashad Bateman got hurt that I thought they did a lousy job at wide receiver in the offseason, going into the season. However, if Lamar is numbers are going to fall off that much. Why am I eager to give them a fully guaranteed contract, then? You know that, to me, that’s the argument for not giving them more. And to be clear, that’s not me saying I want to get rid of them. That’s me saying, you know, this, there’s market and
Dennis Koulatsos 12:35
an agent because you know what, that’s the conversation between the agent and the costume. Because if that conversation between Lamar Jackson’s a caustic, it’s personal question, no question. You’re Eric, you’re talking to Lamar. So Eric, you’re attacking me? No, it’s not an attack. Like he just said, we just went point counterpoint. Right. You can paint. But it’s different when you when you don’t have emotion in the game, where Lamar Jackson, what? And I think that’s makes all the difference in the world. And this thing moving forward?
Luke Jones 13:01
No question. And that’s where I look at it philosophically. Now, this is putting it back on the organization, if you’ve put so little around him at wide receiver. And let’s be clear, they have tried to draft so it’s not a complete lack of effort. But the means that they’ve gone about trying to do it has not worked. That’s you know, there was something fitting about James Brochet. Being the guy who couldn’t make the play. At the end of the game after hearing Eric and the organization trying to champion these young wide receivers, they drafted him, quite frankly, you know, they’ve done very little, I mean, Batemans flashed when he’s been on the field, but he hasn’t been healthy, du Vernay to me, you know, hey, he’s a really good return man when he’s healthy. And I think he’s a good number three or number four wide receiver. But boy beyond that, not a whole lot to write home about. But going back to the point I was making about the fully guaranteed element of this. Well, if the organization from a philosophical standpoint, how they’ve handled wide receiver. Boy, now you’re going to talk about Lamar making, I don’t know 47 $48 million a year and people want to fully guarantee that what’s that going to do for that position, then, you know, so so that’s where I do come back into the numbers dipping from a passing standpoint, the last couple of years for him even before he got hurt, again, doesn’t mean I don’t want to keep him. But this is what we do. You just said point counterpoint. And it’s where you know, when you have an agent, you know, this goes back and forth. But But you just said it, and this is where it’s it’s tough now, and this is where I don’t know if I would do this, but I’ve really thought about it a lot here of late. But I look at the idea of the non exclusive franchise tag and this is working under the assumption that the ravens and Lamar are in a good enough place where they do engage in some talks over the next month plus and let’s assume they’re in the same spot you know, the right let’s say the right payments are offering the same that they did last summer and we don’t know for sure that they’ll do that because As of the lack of availability, but let’s just pretend that they are for the sake of argument, knowing that the caps going up. And look, quarterbacks don’t make less overtime, they make more. So we know that. So, you know, if they would offer less than that’s where you say, well, the Ravens just want to keep them then I mean, it’s just that obvious. But let’s say they are. But let’s also say Lamar Jackson is still looking for a fully guaranteed deal, or nearly fully guaranteed deal. You know, whatever it is, we know, it’s either one of those two, you know, because he’s never said, flat out, I want to fully guaranteed deal. But now you’re looking at this thing. And you’re, you’re at the same impasse, where you’ve been the last two years. If you place the non exclusive franchise tag on him, it will be a little bit cheaper. But it allows him then to go out and negotiate with other teams, whether he has an agent or not, he has that option to then do that. And another team can hypothetically sign him to an offer sheet. And the Ravens if they would elect not to match, and they would have the choice to match that in the same way. We talked about restricted free agents, then they would have them if they if they say, and some team does give them a fully guaranteed deal by chance, then they make the decision to say no, they get two first round picks now, two first round picks. Only that for Lamar Jackson. Yeah, yeah, that’s like,
Dennis Koulatsos 16:14
that’s like that’s left tackle trade bait. They’re not not not struck. Not fair. Fair.
Luke Jones 16:18
Fair. However, if you’re looking at this through the lens of you still want to keep Lamar Jackson, do you perhaps take the risk of saying you know what, we really don’t feel anyone that’s gonna give him a fully guaranteed deal. The Cleveland situation was odd. We know that there were what three other teams that were reported that were after Deshaun Watson at the time, only one of those stepped up at the time and did it. Now, you’ve seen how Deshaun Watson has played then, you know, Russell Wilson, Kyler, Murray, the most recent big contracts, the quarterbacks haven’t exactly, looked so hot. So you have that. And then going back to the point you made a few minutes ago that I said, I’d come back to, you’ve now had a situation where Lamar Jackson has been unable to finish each of the last two seasons. Think what you want about the PCL injury and whether he could have played at the end of the year or not. He did it. So let’s take it at face value. He didn’t. So all of that information there. If you’re the ravens, and Lamar is continuing to insist on a fully guaranteed deal. If you really want to push this across the finish line and get him to sign do you take the risk and say, You know what, Lamar, go out and see what you’re worth. The Ravens did it with Ray Lewis in 2009. And Ray was at a much different point his career, I get that. But they they thought at that point, they had the conviction to say no one’s gonna value you at a higher level than we are right now. Go see. Yeah, so they did
Dennis Koulatsos 17:46
the same thing with that read, and then the Texans paid him twice what the Ravens would have been if it had you know what love you, but you gotta go and I got it. Right. So but but if I’m the ravens, though, Luke, I put the exclusive tag just because of the potential return because I know they’re not supposed to tamper. But you know, we’ve talked to whether it’s the Panthers or the Falcons, whoever his suitors are, right. And I saw a pro football focus trade scenario with the Panthers where they get a first round pick, they get JC horn, to get another one and the following year and another one and they get this this massive haul, were they able to get a quarterback in the draft like CJ Stroud, psalmody, top 10. And to be able to rebuild that roster,
Luke Jones 18:24
right. And I guess, from my, with my thinking on the nonexclusive, would be that your main objective is still to resign him. And the thought would be, he goes out. And again, him not having an agent, how easily will he be able to do this, but let’s for the art, but
Dennis Koulatsos 18:42
dangerous, but the danger is, though, that there’s some team out there that guarantees them and then you can’t match you won’t match. And you’re left with two first round draft picks for for franchise quarterback, but I hear you as well, but I’m just telling you, I’d rather handcuff him for the benefit of the team and take my shots that way.
Luke Jones 18:59
Right. I just feel like if you handcuff him, then that to me, that’s what you do. If you want to if you want to trade him, then sure, absolutely. I’m not gonna argue with you on that. The other is,
Dennis Koulatsos 19:10
we don’t know his appetite for wanting to be here. He sure. And I think that and that’ll tell Donald say a lot. I think to your point, I think that you make an excellent point if if he wants out of here, you won’t see the the nonexclusive tag on him.
Luke Jones 19:24
Yeah, I mean, it really, like I said, with what I’m saying is is more so using that as a mechanism to for him to go out and actually see and in the Ravens mind probably get his feelings hurt thinking that is there really going to be a team that fully guarantees a deal for him, especially when he’d been hurting for the last two years.
Dennis Koulatsos 19:47
I mean, but I think
Luke Jones 19:49
a year ago I thought there was I’m not so sure now Dennis is I you know,
Dennis Koulatsos 19:52
I am because you know what, you either have a quarterback or you don’t right? We know that because we’re the cobbler years and everybody else that we went through When you have teams that haven’t had a quarterback and you get a desperate owner, and I’d have with the with the Browns once they realized they weren’t getting them and he said, I’m not going to Cleveland. You know, Jimmy Haslam said you’re coming to Cleveland, here’s a deal. So I can see a David Tepper, somebody of that ilk to say, hey, the same thing and to give them that deal. Fair enough. Well, then I would say they have to sell tickets. They have to put Fannie’s in the seats. And that’s what
Luke Jones 20:21
you know, ravens do to
Dennis Koulatsos 20:24
be with you. But yeah, right. Now, if we’re not talking about Tom Brady, in the NFL, you’re talking about Lamar Jackson. And he might be talking about Lamar Jackson more, more so than Tom Brady even.
Luke Jones 20:33
Yeah, I think I think there’s fatigue on Tom Brady’s football future. Disappointing.
Dennis Koulatsos 20:39
Story been the biggest story in the NFL since last year. And it continues to be so because, you know, you have the players tripping, and you have everybody, everybody has an opinion.
Luke Jones 20:49
Well, and then here, but here’s the flip side to this, Dennis, if another team does fully to Ghana to guarantee a contract for Lamar Jackson, or assigns him to a fully guaranteed offer sheet, as would be the case here. If you’re the ravens, then do you need to say, well, this is now the cost of doing business. So do we want to keep Lamar Jackson as our quarterback? Or are we going to go into the draft and hope that Bryce young or whoever, whoever, yeah, you open up a window, and then three or four years from now, because if Lamar Jackson gets a fully guaranteed T deal, guess what, then I think Joe burrow is going to want one, Justin Herbert is going to want one that it’s one thing to talk about Deshaun Watson being the single outlier. But if we’re now talking about it twice, and then you’re talking about a couple quarterbacks who, you know, at least in the case of Joe burrow, you can certainly make a strong argument. He’s better than Lamar at this point in time. Now, Herbert, you know, that can be up for debate a little more. They’re different styles. But hey, two very accomplished young quarterbacks who have a bright future ahead of them. If Lamar gets a fully guaranteed deal from somebody, the Ravens can say, all right, we’re not matching it. But then what happens if Joe burrow and Justin Herbert again, the President will have been set? Absolutely. So that’s where, and this is the other element to what I’m talking about here. It’s not even just that Lamar might get his feelings hurt and find out that no one’s offering a fully guaranteed deal. If someone does offer fully guaranteed deal, then the Ravens can make a final decision and say, You know what, we don’t really want to do this in the same way that we really didn’t want to sign Joe Flacco to a $120.6 million contract after Superbowl 47. But this is what it is the leverage is what it is, do we want the player or not? And at that point in time, the Ravens can then make a decision. They can say yes. And then they’ve got it done. Lamar is under contract, and you might not like it fully guaranteed, but you have them. Or then like I said, you know, there’s the compensation part of it that is less than ideal. But I do think if you’re really, truly in your heart still really want to work something out with him long term. I kind of feel like that might be the way to go about doing it because it either it either gives Lamar some closure that no one’s giving him a fully guaranteed deal. And then you talk turkey with the ravens, or they just match whatever deal he ends up signing, that’s less than fully guaranteed deal, a less than fully guaranteed deal, or some other team does. And then you’re the ravens and say, You know what, this isn’t just a Cleveland outlier anymore. We can’t keep fooling ourselves. We either really want Lamar and we want to marry him for a fully guaranteed deal. Or we’re going to go back to this and guess what the guy that we get, you know, when whether it’s, you know, whoever it is, then we’re going to be in that position with that guy four years from now. So
Dennis Koulatsos 23:30
alright, let me
Luke Jones 23:33
I feel like it forces action one way or the other that that would be my argument for it.
Dennis Koulatsos 23:37
There’s also a global viewpoint here, Luke, you mentioned it earlier. Whether it’s whether it’s Russell Wilson, or Kyler, Murray or Deshaun. Watson not living up to the to the big contract, right. I feel like the owners, Steve was shot. He’s carrying the flag for the owners to not guaranteed deals whereas Lamar Jackson, back by the NFL Players Association. Yeah. They’re like, hey, if we can nail we can fail. The second guarantee contract. You’re right. It opens up the door for Joe burrows and everybody else behind them. And perhaps other positional players at some point will follow suit. Right. So I do think that there’s there’s pressure on the shotty to hold the line. Right, which which Haslam failed to do so right, he caved in. And I do feel Steve feels like he’s part of that network, that exclusive club, where half snapper is perhaps an outlier because of what he did. And Lamar Jackson, now he is on Camp. He’s been on the Shaun Watson camp and rightfully so lobbying for a fully guaranteed contract. So I do think there’s pressure on both parties from outside entities from their own, you know, a representation to not give Lamar a guaranteed contract and for the Players Association to get to get that guaranteed contract for himself.
Luke Jones 24:57
Yeah, I think that’s what’s made this fascinating from the moment that the Brown signed Watson to that deal. I mean, what was that?
Dennis Koulatsos 25:05
Haslam broke. Right, because what he did publicly by law, but by steepish it which, again, if you’re Lamar Jackson, why, why is your owner saying this was a bad move? And what about me?
Luke Jones 25:17
Yeah, he’s saying that in public, I’m better than Deshaun. Watson, you know, I certainly have a cleaner off field record than him, you know, so
Dennis Koulatsos 25:27
he gets rewarded, right? He, he’s, he hasn’t played football for two years. He’s in the news for the wrong reasons. And he gets rewarded. A lot more than I’ve ever been.
Luke Jones 25:37
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s messy. I think I
Dennis Koulatsos 25:41
made like $33 million, right then in a fight in five years. But somewhere somewhere in that neighborhood. Yeah. I mean, he hasn’t made. I mean, he’s made a lot of money compared to your average person out there. But sure, it turns a franchise, quarterbacks? He hasn’t he hasn’t made anything. I mean, the franchise tag alone will eclipse all the money he’s made combined the past five years.
Luke Jones 26:01
Yeah, I mean, even even if it would be the nonexclusive, you’re still talking 30 something at that point in time, depending on what gets another way. So it’s it right. It’s messy. It really is messy. And, and the Ravens gave
Dennis Koulatsos 26:13
them a discount this year, too. That’s another if I’m the ravens, you know, they got him for half price this year. They really did it at $20. So again, how do you look at it?
Luke Jones 26:25
And he didn’t hold out? Yeah, I mean, it’s yeah, it
Dennis Koulatsos 26:28
comes down to his I think, what what was his appetite to be in Baltimore? Long term?
Luke Jones 26:34
I think that it’s, it’s quite possible. And I mean, at some point to figure
Dennis Koulatsos 26:39
it out. But if he doesn’t want to be here, for whatever reason, you know, they’ll they’ll figure it out.
Luke Jones 26:45
And that’s where and that’s where I keep I keep coming back to. If if you use the nonexclusive, if you use that that also puts the Ravens on the line and say, Do you want him or not? Some other teams willing to give him this? He wants this,
Dennis Koulatsos 26:59
if they put on this attack? And you know, there’ll be 20 themed looking to get him nevermind to
Luke Jones 27:05
oh, I mean, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying there will be suitors. But again,
Dennis Koulatsos 27:09
it’s a non exclusive tag, that list will quadruple for what it would be if you put an exclusive tag on him. Because they’ll for two first, you cannot create a quarterback position and you’re willing to commit money to him. And you have cap space. I don’t know what team that would be. But I think that open up the funnel, makes the suitors even even more. So the multiply the interest at hand from other teams that maybe perhaps in the past?
Luke Jones 27:32
And let’s be clear, I’m not saying I would definitely do that. I understand the compensation would be on the very on the underwhelming side. There’s no question about it. However, I keep looking at this, what is going to change from a negotiating standpoint, what about this season? Other than Lamar saying, Well, I’ve been hurt the last couple of years, I don’t think anyone’s gonna give me a fully guaranteed deal. Which you know, you’ve made the opinion you think someone will? I’m not so sure after two straight years where he’s been injured? I’m not saying someone won’t, though. So, but
Dennis Koulatsos 28:07
Bill Belichick is the GM of the Patriots. Right, to give up to first for Lamar Jackson. I think he would do that in a heartbeat, and maybe perhaps talk Robert Kraft and given them whatever. They haven’t replaced the legacy of Tom Brady. And you know, that bill went to win a Super Bowl before he retires without time.
Luke Jones 28:24
Everything you’re laying out there is why Lamar Jackson shouldn’t give in. Oh, 100%. I mean, I’m just saying, you know, looking at this not even looking at this as Pro Lamar, pro ravens, anti Lamar, anti ravens, but everything you just laid out there as well, and Lamar Jackson shouldn’t give in whatsoever, then. And if you’re the ravens, and you don’t want to give them a fully guaranteed deal, then you’re going to lose them. Yeah. Because, you know, we, the, for me, though, I’ll say this much. And look, we’re going to be talking about this probably every week, at least for these for another month or two. I mean, I you know, if by chance they signed a long term deal, which I don’t expect at this point in time. If but if ultimately, this is going to end in a trade, it’s going to be closer to the draft or closer to the start of free agency. You know, and it couldn’t be culminated officially until free agency starts to be clear because it’d be then started the new league year. But I just if you’re the ravens, can you allow this situation to hold your hold your football team hostage for another year? Yeah. Because if you do tag them, and let’s say it is the exclusive and I’m not saying the Ravens shouldn’t do that. But if it is, that means he can’t negotiate with anyone else. What if you’re Lamar Jackson, why in the world are you showing up anytime before? You’re not? August? 26
Dennis Koulatsos 29:42
It’s ugly, because there has to be you talked about fatigue. With Tom Brady. There has to be roster fatigue with the players on on the on the Ravens team to hear about the story right now. You want to be able to just focus on football and this thing had been there since preseason and you got to carry it over to second year. not healthy for the team.
Luke Jones 29:59
Exactly, exactly. And, you know, I’ve seen a lot of people make, try to interpret what guys are gonna say the right things because here’s at the end of the day, Dennis Morris teammates like him, they like and he’s, everyone in the building likes Lamar Jackson, he’s a likable guy, you know, he’s a, he’s a good guy. You know, whatever you want to say about any other element, you know, work ethic or how he’s rehabbed or anything like that. So much of that is conjecture that we just don’t know. You know, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle on some of the things you hear, but everyone likes Lamar. I mean, we even saw that interaction between John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson, at the end of what was at the Atlanta game. I think that was when the team website put that out. You’re telling me, Harbaugh hasn’t had some frustration about this situation, and probably at times been a little irritated with Lamar from a business standpoint. Sure. But you saw what? That interaction. That’s how people feel about Lamar. So his teammates saying what they’ve said, I don’t put any stock into that whatsoever in terms of that meaning anything. You know, it would be pretty rare for a teammate to say, oh, I want this guy gone. I mean, how often do you see that even about guys who’ve been malcontents in the NFL and Lamar has been a malcontent? Let’s be clear. So, you know, everyone can say the right things. And, you know, the state of the Ravens this week, you know, horrible or hardball into caster, you have both hear them say positive things, because they have no other choice. Because until you have this situation resolved, you have to play nice and Lamar, to a degree, but to a lesser degree has to play nice, too, because the Ravens control his rights, you know, you know, even if it is by chance that they would do what I pondered them doing the nonexclusive, they still have his rights at the end of the day. Now he can negotiate, but they’re still the ones that say, Oh, we can match that, or we won’t. So you know, it comes back to everyone’s got to play nice. But, boy, the last thing that this team needs after the season it just had, which ended in frustration, and them having lots of talent and a lot of places, but also very clear deficiencies, is this to just hold up your entire offseason, it’s gonna make you very limited in what you can do. From a cap standpoint. It’s great to talk about Greg roamans future and whether he’s gonna be here or not. But, you know, the notion of another offensive coordinator coming in here, who worth their salt is going to eagerly sign up for this job if they don’t know if Lamar Jackson is going to be here. I mean, there are plenty, you know, say what you want about Lamar is playing style and how long it’s you know, how it’s going to age, you know, all the things we’ve talked about at different times? I guarantee you, there are plenty, maybe not everyone, and you know, everyone’s got preferences with style and philosophy and all that. But there are plenty of offensive minds that would love to work with Mr. Jackson. Sure. But the current state of affairs, I’m not sure how many of them are leaving, what could be a cushy gig that they currently have to join the Ravens not knowing if Lamar is gonna be there? Or they might say, Oh, we’re giving them the exclusive tag? Well, that’s great to see that mean, he’s not going to show up until September 8. Or, hey, you might not show up until after the season starts? I mean, we don’t know. We don’t know. We just don’t know.
Dennis Koulatsos 33:12
Because and that’s there, you can do this. James urbandoor T. Martin, somebody from within opportunity. That’s about it. And it has anybody from the outside that you say,
Luke Jones 33:21
and but if but, you know, if that’s how it would play out? Do you have a lot of optimism that things are going to be markedly better? I don’t know. I mean, you know, so it’s just, it’s messy. And it’s not to say that Lamar being tagged and playing the year on the tag means that the Ravens would stink. I don’t think that but certainly not thinking they’re gonna be a serious Super Bowl contender with those circumstances because of the limitations and how much unknown it would put on everybody. You know, from a roster building standpoint, on down to bringing in another an established wide receiver who then doesn’t have a chance to build a rapport with them are all spring and summer, you know, I mean, you go down the list, it’s just, it’s messy. It’s messy. It really is. And I think and I understand, fans have wanted to try to make this not be a big issue. And look, two years ago when we were talking about this, yeah, there was plenty of time and I get it. And I understand fans weren’t going to lose sleep over the fact that they didn’t get a deal done in 2021. Fine, I can understand fans that weren’t worrying about it last year at this time, or even in the spring, because hey, there’s still time. Well, now we’re at a point where there’s not much time. And yeah, you can say, well, they can tag on the next couple years. But there are very significant ramifications involved with that, and very, very serious potential consequences involved with that on a number of levels that impact your football team. So three, you just look at this thing and say now, how did it get to this point? You know, when you think about where the Ravens were three years ago, at this point, three years ago, you and I were talking about the aftermath. Have heartbreaking playoff loss to Tennessee and Lamar was about to be the unanimous NFL MVP. And there was, you know, even through that disappointment, there was so much optimism. And to think three years later, one playoff win. And Lamar Jackson’s future very much up in the air. I mean, it’s just, it’s quite frankly, engraving like it is. I’ll just leave it at that. And I’m not saying that that makes them the the complete heel and Lamar completely absorbed. And Lamar is not the total heel and the Ravens are blameless in this. Now there’s, I think there’s plenty to go around and read from Lamar not having representation to to really complicate this things, this thing to the ravens, probably if they had shown more urgency two years ago, you know, and made a better offer at that point in time, not knowing, making it, you know, easier said than done for me, because I’m using 2020. Hindsight here, but not knowing what was going to happen with Josh Allen and Deshaun. Watson a year later, and all that the Ravens could have made a better offer than they did two years ago. And if they did, maybe it would have gotten done, or maybe not, maybe Lamar always had in his mind, he was going to take a more probably NBA player like approach, you know, with what we’ve you know, how we’ve seen him handle this, you know, he famously said on a podcast with Lebron James a year ago that he, he wanted to be a billionaire, right? So he did, maybe some teams, maybe that team is going to give him 250 million guaranteed or maybe they give him 300 million guaranteed, I don’t know, maybe he’s going to be the guy that breaks that trend. But it’s very clear, the Ravens don’t want to be the team that that is the, you know, the catalyst for that. So here we are in a couple of weeks away, about a month away from the franchise tag window opening. And I’d be very, I’d be shocked if we see an extension between now and then. I mean, I guess Stranger things have happened. Maybe there is a change of heart here there that we don’t know about. But it’s feeling more and more for me. And this is not anything I’ve heard Dennis and I’ll leave it at this because we’ll have plenty of time to reconvene next month. And we’ll be talking about this to some point. But my personal feeling again, this is not anything I’ve heard from the organization or anything I’ve heard from anyone related to Lamar Jackson. But if you’re going to ask me what’s more likely this offseason, a long term contract extension or a trade I’d have to say a trade you know, that doesn’t mean that that’s going to be the outcome and maybe he will play on the tag but it’s it’s messy, and it’s certainly an unsettling position for the ravens to be in as they’re coming off of you know, their last four trips to the playoffs they’ve been one and done three of those times. So you want to try to break that trend. Not easy having a long term contract conflict with their starting quarterback the way that they have and doesn’t feel like there’s a an easy end in sight.
Dennis Koulatsos 37:56
Great stuff as always Luke, please tell our listeners where they can find you wn St. Baltimore positive you blog, all the other great things that you do.
Luke Jones 38:03
Absolutely encourage everyone to follow us on Twitter at wn S T can follow me personally at Baltimore Luke, check out my blog at Baltimore positive.com sponsored by coons for the Baltimore latest 12 ravens thoughts as you mentioned a few minutes ago so kindly, my look at the Ravens class of free agents, some thoughts on those individuals and a reminder that generally speaking, most of your free agents don’t return that’s the nature of the beast, you know, maybe a few that you bring back. But you know the number eight being the big one, the person of interest at this point. But you could check out my blog at Baltimore positive.com You want to be on the wn St. Baltimore positive tech service sponsored by coons for the Baltimore. If it is some significant news on Lamar Jackson, if it is significant news on a coaching change of some sort, talking about offensive coordinator or anything unexpected as we get closer to the start of the new league year, trade information, potential signings potential notable contract extensions, any significant local sports news sent directly to your mobile device via the wn St. Baltimore positive tech service sponsored by coons for to Baltimore. And of course anything throughout the week on AM 15 Seven eat with Nestor check out the Ravens season ending press conference. Plein Air comments from locker clean out day. All of that check it out at Baltimore positive.com
Dennis Koulatsos 39:25
All right, my friend, always fun, always informative. You stay well keep doing great things and we’ll talk about some NFL playoffs a week from today.
Luke Jones 39:34
Sounds good Dennis be well enjoy the games this weekend. And yeah, well, we’ll have plenty to talk about and I’m guessing we’ll have plenty of Lamar talk next week because what else are we going to talk about? The Orioles? The Orioles making minimal signings and still a few weeks away from spring training.
Dennis Koulatsos 39:50
That’s right. So stay tuned here. wn St. 1570. Am there he goes leave Jones. We’ll take a quick break and come back right after this.