Author and one-time Wall Street Journal reporter John Miller finally brings his Earl Weaver biography to life and joins Nestor to discuss better understanding his baseball legacy beyond the Baltimore Orioles. Join Miller and our friend John Eisenberg at Enoch Pratt Free Library on March 5th for an evening of Earl conversations.
Nestor Aparicio interviews John Miller, author of “The Last Manager: How Earl Weaver Tricked, Tormented, and Reinvented Baseball,” about his book and Earl Weaver’s legacy. Miller, a Wall Street Journal reporter and high school baseball coach, discusses Weaver’s unique blend of journalism and baseball, his deep understanding of the game, and his complex personality. Weaver’s innovative strategies, such as emphasizing strike-throwing and understanding pitcher-batter matchups, are highlighted. The conversation also touches on Weaver’s evolving views on race and his relationships with players like Reggie Jackson and Frank Robinson. Miller will promote his book at Enoch Pratt Library on March 5.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
baseball season, press credential, Wall Street Journal, newborn babies, Earl Weaver, Baltimore Orioles, high school coach, Larry Lucchino, college baseball, obituary writing, definitive biography, Earl’s interview, psychology Earl, three run homer, analytics
SPEAKERS
John Miller, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Uh, welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive. I am resplendent in my foreign daughter and curio orange gear. And I say it proper. Uh, baseball seasons here, pitchers and catchers, uh, Sarasota, I might get my press credential. I don’t know. Stop asking me. Don’t ask me. Ask them. I’ve asked nicely. I think either way, I’m about to do a baseball segment that has, I feel like, like I just gave birth with this segment, because this guy’s been coming on for like, years. He called me a couple years ago. He said, My name’s John Miller. I’m like, You’re a hell of a bra. Oh, different, different John Miller. This is the John Miller from the Wall Street Journal, long time reporter, real journalist, who has put together, finally, the baby, as well as in his real life, where he is a parent of a newborn, two babies in one month. The last manager is now here. It’s real. All of the incredible pre press you’ve gotten John, as well as all the research you did on programs like Baltimore positive here over the last couple years. But George Will Ken Burns, just a who’s who a baseball lovers and Earl Weaver lovers and John at first off. Congratulations, not just on the birth of your child, but also the birth of the book and getting it all out. But I’ve been with you the whole time, man, I’ve been on this journey with you ever since my wife started laughing at the incredible video of of the Mike Flanagan, Eddie, yeah, yeah. How are you and how’s your baby life and making book life. And I know you’re going to be here, yeah, Baltimore, on a very, very special day in my life. So you
John Miller 01:48
know what brings us all together as a shared passion for baseball and the Orioles. And I love the Orioles, although I’m also a high school varsity baseball coach alter dice High School in Pittsburgh, and I’m wearing the hat right now. I’m going to go to batting practice in an hour. It’s the alma mater of Larry Lucchino, who people in Baltimore remember, that’s where he went to high school, future Oriole
Nestor Aparicio 02:07
Hall of Famer Larry Lucchino should have been in the
John Miller 02:09
hall. Okay. Okay. This book is like kind of a combination to talk about babies. It’s kind of a baby between my journalism career and my baseball career. I played college baseball at Mount St Mary’s in Maryland, and then worked as a scout for the Orioles, a little bit a lot of baseball stuff in my 20s and 30s, and so, along with having a career at the Wall Street Journal as a reporter, so this project is kind of the marrying the two. I mean, I wrote Earl’s obituary, as you know, for the Wall Street journalists, kind of got this project rolling, and I have spent last three or four years, and you and I met because you, you did one of the last interviews with Earl, which one of the best interviews with Earl, where he was sincere and a lot more open than he was in previous media appearances. So that’s how we got together, and I appreciate it. Nestor, and you contributed to the book, obviously. And, yeah, I think it’s the definitive biography of Earl Weaver, which is a story for all of baseball. And I’m excited for all of baseball to share the story with us. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 03:01
you’ve been on a handful of times from the beginning, and you did find me sort of honest. And I got an email from some guy named John Miller said, I’m writing a book on Earl Weaver. I mean, you flowered me all up, dude, you dapped me up good with how good that interview was. And I think I’ve told the story about that because I do want people to go back and watch it if they haven’t, because it’s kind of cool. But Earl Weaver’s agent was Luis. Luis is still alive. Luis is the the oldest living Hall of Famer, as pointed out by Bob Ryan on the internet the day Willie Mays died, but, but Louie’s agent was a man named Dick Gordon who was a Baltimore, Pikesville native and was an agent for Carl you stremsky And Louis t a whole bunch of ball players of that era. I mean, every Jim Palmer would know him and have worked with him, a lot of card shows and autographs, all of that sort of booking in Louis, you know, post career, his Hall of Fame career, and Earl Weaver was doing the statues. It was the statue summer, and I lived at Harbor court, and Dick said, You want Earl and at the time, I was working on a book that I never did on Baltimore leadership and on people who had led in Baltimore. And I’ve talked about this three or four times a year, somebody comes on that was a part of that. And they asked me, if I’m ever going to put it back together, Earl Weaver would be a part of it. I turned down interviews with Don Shula, who’s now died schnellenberg. I’m just an idiot. I mean, I’m an absolute idiot, but I did sit with Earl that day, and I don’t know why you believe that, but speak to that a little bit because it’s a nice little entryway, because I really do believe was the last time he was ever interviewed. I don’t think anyone ever spoke to him again, and certainly didn’t sit with yeah and talk about weird stuff, because it’s seeded your relationship with me that that half an hour he said, I’ll give you 10 minutes. Kid, 30 minutes later, he’s sitting there talking about Elmira in the St Louis Browns. It was,
John Miller 04:50
yeah, well, he spoke, he spoke from the heart. Yeah. What I loved about it was he spoke from the heart, and He revealed a lot more of the non Orioles story of his life. I mean, he spent. 20 years in the minors before he got to Baltimore, he had a brief, glorious career as a prospect. He was a much better player than people remember, and he was kind of screwed out of a job in spring training by Eddie Stankey, who’s one of the famous jerks in baseball history. And he kind of carried those wounds his whole life. He always wished he could have been a player. He didn’t really like managing. He found it very stressful, but that was his destiny. He was so good at it. And in Elmira, you bring up Elmira, I mean, that’s where he learned how to be a winner. And so where he also developed the psychology he had. He sold cars in Elmira, and he was very good at reading people. And so he he loved pop psychology books, like the Dale Carnegie books, and he believed in hypnosis. He liked to think he could hypnotize people, and so he had a real curiosity about human beings that helped him be become a great manager. And you brought a lot of a lot of that out of him in that interview, and the vulnerability too. You know, this is not somebody who was 100% sure of himself. He was always seeking approval from Major League Baseball players. He was wanting to be part of the club. You know, as a short, little guy who was not always welcome among among jocks, he wanted to be one of one of the ball players. And so he, you know, he carried that suffering of having to reject players, of having to break their hearts when the time came for him to be a manager, just like his heart had been broken by Eddie stanky with the Cardinals.
Nestor Aparicio 06:20
John, it’s fascinating, man. I mean, I haven’t had you on it maybe about a year. It’s been a little while, and you kind of went to print with it, and it’s now out. The book is the last, man, you got a heart.
06:32
Well, I appreciate that copy. It’s amazing. I
Nestor Aparicio 06:33
appreciate it. I have it. It’s old. I like to touch things. I can’t pretty. That is, it’s got a whole spine on it, like, the whole deal, dude, I’ve written a couple books, and I know what it’s like when the box comes and you open it and your arm hurts from autographing in because you’re not used to signing stuff. And you think, Oh, I get to sign books. It’ll be really cool. And then you want to write stuff to people. Then you’re just like, oh, just get me. The kids get me. You know when you’re sending them out and this, you’re new to like this, all fresh. You’re coming to Baltimore on March 5. I want people to come out and all that, but I want you library. You came into me with that video that I did with Earl. And the amazing thing of that day is I had my my wife held the camera that day. It was in the lobby. Was a lot of ambient noise, and he was so little. I mean, he died six months thereafter, maybe five months later, yeah, he passed away. And my, my wife, was expecting this cantankerous guy, and I think we had encountered him maybe a decade before, half a decade before my wife and I at an event. Maybe that was like a 66 for you. It was, it was a, it was a base. It was a 70 review. It was Bernie car it was Bernie carbos, a 70 reunion. So I guess it was a, maybe, oh, five or 10, or wherever it was. And Earl was, Earl could be cantankerous, and but when we encountered him that day, he said, I’ll give you 10 minutes. And gave me a half an hour. And then when we left, my wife left, saying he was sweet, you know? And, yeah, I guess there was another side of Earl that even John Eisenberg, who’s been on recently, talks about Earl taking him out on the golf cart, saying, how much you paying me for this? And, you know, they’ve known each other forever, and all of that. But you took this topic on in a whole different way than funny Earl or Little Earl, or cute Earl. Well, you sort of went psychology Earl, and that’s why you’re getting so much praise on this book. Because this not as much baseball book as it is an earl in baseball book, right?
John Miller 08:33
It’s about a human being who is complicated, but now you’re making me glad that I didn’t have to deal with him. I think he was a handful, but he was also complicated guy who could be very generous. I mean, it was a ball player that older Orioles fans will remember named Bobby Bonner, and he was kind of a rival for Cal Ripken, for that shortstop, third base position in 8182 and Earl kind of stepped on him and kind of ran him out of town, and then years later, apologized to him and gave him a big hug and said he felt terrible for that, but he was somebody who could, you know, speak to anybody. George Weigel, who’s the biographer of Pope John Paul the Second, said that listening to Earl talk baseball was like listening to Homer recite the Iliad. So he had a depth to him that appealed to all these intellectuals, including writers like Tom Boswell and Roger Angell, who I grew up reading. And they’re kind of like the source, you know, the inspiration for the book is really these guys falling in love with Earl, and me reading about it. And I grew up my mom’s from Catonsville, but I grew up in Belgium, by the way, and so I grew up with baseball in America, being far away, but reading about Earl Weaver and being fascinated by him, and not just as a winner, because I was an Orioles fan, and this is like the late 80s, when they were terrible, as a winner, who represented this glory time in Orioles history, but also as a really interesting, complicated person. So I think that’s what you’re getting at. And yeah, I feel like there’s a chapter about his alcoholism. It’s. Was a chapter about his relationship with hypnosis psychology, along with all the great Orioles stories and all the umpire stories, that’s all in there. So I think it’s a comprehensive look at Earl Weaver’s life.
Nestor Aparicio 10:12
Let us have a reading from page 187 this is the Reggie. You know, I met Reggie in 86 with Ted Patterson at Memorial Stadium. Reggie Jackson, to this day, I think of some athletes that I you know, that I didn’t think much of Terrell Suggs was up for the Hall of Fame. I don’t think much of Terrell Suggs, but people you were around once in your life, who you idolized and were so awful to you. Reggie was that guy. Now, Earl wasn’t that guy. Now, Earl. I was around Earl a lot, 80s, 90s, you know, drunk Earl at the Thompson sports banquet and Palmer, and he fighting, you know, like all of those kinds of things. Earl was ubiquitous around here. And I did have a press pass in 8687 88 when Earl was kind of trying to come back and do his thing that time, or whatever, um, I was never afraid. Earl, he was kind of short. You sort of knew the sound of his voice like you would know the President United States voice, if you’re from Baltimore, right, and you’re a kid who love baseball. But I didn’t find him to be intimidating as much as I found him to be respected in some way, even though he was this tall, because he was baseball, right? Like he was a guy at every Boswell, every baseball person wanted to hear him talk baseball. And a lifetime later, and a death later, and now one book by John Miller later, you’re trying to bring out the wisdom in a way that the godfather of analytics and all that’s changed the game. Earl was a guy on the way, way, way front end of that, and I think you’re pointing that out, and I think that’s why the Scholars are
John Miller 11:49
out. Yeah, you know, that’s all true, you know. But his story is also the story of a changing America, and I think the gambling chapter represents that the best, like he grew up in a pre white flight, St Louis, 1930s 1940s a world of crowded taverns and bookies. His uncle was a bookie so Earl and analytics from gambling, which was like on the street, a time when Americans live closer to each other, when they’d walk to the ballpark. Obviously, after the war, the suburbs were built and people gambling was cracked down on. Now, gambling is back. It’s legal. It’s all the same stuff, but we’re just living in a different a different way. And Earl’s career is really a trajectory from the old world of baseball and cities and walking to the park to the suburbs, the TV to online to gambling. He’s the one. He’s a he’s the bridge character. He’s the only manager who was the manager five years before and five years after, free agency came in 76 where, as you said, Reggie was the big prize. Spent his free agent here with the Orioles. The Orioles couldn’t offer him enough money, so they went to the Yankees. Won a couple World Series, but Earl, Earl loved Reggie, and Reggie loved Earl because Earl didn’t play favorites. He wanted guys who could play well rewarded good play. He didn’t he didn’t
Nestor Aparicio 13:01
hold grudges, right? Like in the way that they can grew up in the racism of the game where, I mean, that’s,
John Miller 13:07
yeah, I love that part of it, yeah, he, you know, as a young man, used the N word and was part of that culture, but then really matured and by his own mission, grew. And I think there’s a beautiful story there of how we’re all capable of growth, how, you know, nobody needs to be excluded from being able to learn from their own mistakes, from being able to grow. And you know, Eddie Murray loved him. Frank Robinson, he helped Frank become the first black manager in baseball history by promoting him. And there’s a 50th anniversary of that this April 8, by the way, Frank in that game for the Cleveland Indians, not only did he manage, he had a home run. And you know, who also had a home run for Cleveland that game was Boo Powell and Earl. After the game, he was in a different city, but he said, You know, I’m happy for Boog and Frank and those home runs, but then would have been fly balls at Memorial Stadium
Nestor Aparicio 13:55
of of, I’m sorry, with Frank delay. Great picture Frank Robinson and John Lowenstein in the on the old Indians uniforms. And I thought that’s kind of cool, because I’ve, you know, you think of Baltimore with those guys, you know?
John Miller 14:08
Well, book powers on that team too. They traded Boog. I have a piece in The Washington Post coming up in the next few weeks about that, about Frank and Earl and race Ken Dixon, who you probably remember from the 80s, loves Earl. We talked. We become friends. We talk a lot, you know, he said, Earl. He said, You know, he caught him in his office. He said, You know, you can be a great pitcher, just you know, you got to do your effing job. And he said, other other coaches would like, kind of look at him, call him boy, like, be conspicuously racist towards Ken, who’s black, and Earl wasn’t like that. Earl could be hard on you, but he treated you like a man. And so there was a humanity there, again, that was authentic and, in a way, beautiful. I mean, I think Earl Weaver, you know, I say you would not have wanted him to date your your daughter as a young man, and he was rough around the edges, and he had a drinking problem. He’s a chain smoker. All this stuff is true, but. Was also true that he had a heart and that he was complicated, and he looked at you and looked at himself honestly. That’s one thing that Tom Boswell writes too, that he, Earl Weaver, looked at the world and was always open to transformation in the way that was really rare, not just for baseball managers, but pick any category of human, politician, teacher, journalist. We’re all afraid of evolving, but Earl Weaver showed us how he could. John
Nestor Aparicio 15:24
Miller, the other John Miller, the author for formerly the Wall Street Journal, has authored a book called The Last manager. He will be at Enoch Pratt a library on my father’s birthday. I guess it would be my dad would have been 106 born in 1919, yeah. So March 5 very, very special day in my life. The first 20 years that I did radio here, it was a day of phone calls to honor all fathers. It was our Father’s Day here before at the beginning of NST, 28 years ago. I don’t want to say I’ve given it up on behalf of my dad, but I every day is an homage to my dad around here. And you know my dad, I would say that I grew up in Dundalk in the 70s. And I would say Archie bunkers, Dundalk, right? My middle school, I didn’t elementary school. Middle school never had an African American other than a teacher who I’ve honored and still alive as our music teacher, Turner Station, historically African American community. Year, I always tell the story in high school, the 15% of the kids that were black in our school all sat at the three tables in the corner in the 80s. It’s just the way it was. And I think of Archie bunkers America. And I think there may be some equating Earl Weaver having this Archie Bunker sort of personality, sort of looked like each other at the same time on TV or whatever. But you’re saying that Earl was a different, evolved kind of cat. And I never really thought about Earl and racism. And I’ve talked to her, Ken singleton a million times, and different people like that. I’ve never heard an ill word about Earl in that way, probably because it didn’t exist.
John Miller 16:55
Kenny loved him, and if at that time, he had evolved, and he understood that also has a time when 18% of Major League players were African American, and now it’s like 6% so you know, if you didn’t get along with the black players, you’re not going to be a good manager. And so I say in the book or Weaver is not so interested in racial justice, but he was interested in winning, and he was interested in being authentic and he wasn’t a liar. And that’s one thing that is, again, a great credit to him. Yeah. I mean, it’s an important topic that I really feel like at a time when everything in America seems to be black and white and people are very binary, this is a story about somebody who was complicated and you’re the one important at the Archie Bunker comparison. I think that’s accurate. I mean, when he goes out to the umpire and he says, you know, you’re here for one reason, the Fs. I mean, he’s kind of standing up for the working man. He’s a symbol of something of working class Baltimore, and that, that time, well, that’s what Archie would say, his
Nestor Aparicio 17:53
boss, right, down at the plant, right? Like, literally, Fred Flint, just all of that, right? I mean, Ralph Crampton, he had, he had that cut spa, right? And
John Miller 18:04
he was coarse, and he was, you know, he was, yeah, he didn’t go to college. I mean, he was, he was rough around the edges, and he stood for this kind of, like, yeah, grievance, even, even, like, white grievance. I mean, I think he was part of the working class, and stood up for that against, you know, I say the blue buds from New York and Boston. He was somebody who represented, you know, complaining to your boss, complaining to the man, you know, standing up to the man symbolized by the umpires. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 18:29
John Miller has finally made the baby in real life, as well as with the book The Last manager, analytics, stats, all of by
John Miller 18:38
the way, Nestor, I have to say that my wife yesterday was a straight face. You know, our son’s name is Oscar, and with a straight face, she said, Did you ever consider him? Consider naming him. Earl.
Nestor Aparicio 18:49
Is his middle name? Gamble or No, Madison,
John Miller 18:52
no, but no, but I know about Oscar gamble, obviously. Yeah, Oscar is his name anyway. Go ahead.
Nestor Aparicio 18:59
I love that’s a great name, the big O, right, for, you know, little basketball season too. Um, the analytics side and, and I know you were fascinated by this, and I think it’s one of the reasons. And I hope at some point in life, I want to tackle any topic, um, the way you’ve gone after this the last couple years, the way all of you professional authors, you know, Eisenberg takes on a topic, and I don’t see him for three years. He comes back with a book, you know, black quarterbacks are on Cal Ripken. And I you know he but with you, with this thing, you took this on. And I think maybe the sale to the publisher and you to people, is not just Earl World Series, Baltimore baseball, like all, you know, race, all these other things. I think there’s a point where the game changed so much, and he was so prescient in the way he viewed the game, about on base, percentage math, all the things my dad loved about baseball was the math part of batting averages and eras, but he took it to. To a different math level that maybe some people not as smart as Jim Palmer couldn’t understand at various points about pinch hitting and having note cards and the science of baseball not what my eye tells Yeah, because that was the way baseball Hey, I got it up here. That’s the way baseball scouting was. You know that you were one of them.
John Miller 20:22
Earl was very smart, and Harry Dalton hired him, partly because he was so smart and he understood the mechanics of baseball, and he understood essential analytical principles we have today, like on base average. He promoted an outfielder named Don Buford, who a lot of older fans will remember, and Earl made him the everyday leadoff hitter. He was not batting Well, batting average wise, but he drew a lot of walks, and he had a 400 on basic average. So one of the first things Earl did was promote Don Buford to everyday play in the outfield, again, African American player over Kurt bluffery, a white player. And Earl also understood the importance of pitcher batter matchups, that you could have a bad hitter like Mark Belanger, but who would hit people like Nolan Ryan extremely well, and you can match those weaker hitters up against the hit the pitchers they could hit. And Earl was instructed by in the minors, there was a future big leaguer named Juan Pizarro who was one over 100 games in the major leagues, and he always owned these minor league teams Earl played on, but Earl could hit him. And Earl would think everybody else is gonna go, oh, for four, but I’m getting my knocks today. And he would get two or three hits of Juan Pizarro. So even as a player, Earl realized the physics at baseball are complicated, and sometimes, again, you can have a bad player who does well against a good pitcher. And if you understand those nuances, you can take advantage of them. He also innovated strategically in a way that people don’t even dare do anymore. Sometimes he would have a pinch hitter lead the game off on the road and bat first and then put a short stop and then put belander in the bottom of the first. Earl’s reasoning being that pinch hit is worth just as much in the first inning as in the ninth inning. Why not start the game with one of your best hitters, and then go from there, and you save a blind rep back because Blanchard was the terrible hitter. But I remember
Nestor Aparicio 22:06
when he did that, and I remember my father trying to explain it to me, and I remember the games he did
John Miller 22:13
it, Roy. Roy Stillman was the guy’s name. And they also, they made it a rule that you had to bat the DH at least once, because Earl figured out on the road again, where actually you could bat a pitcher on his off day at the DH spot, and then when that spot in the order came up in the first or second inning, you could just pick the hitter you wanted, and you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t burn a hitter. You’d have basically a blank slate until the second or third inning, when the spot came up, and
Nestor Aparicio 22:36
they sound like Belichick, confused hardball and the kickoff in the playoff game kind of sort of like that little
John Miller 22:41
bit. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Nestor Aparicio 22:44
Well, I mean, you know, confusing, even the umpires probably at that point, right?
John Miller 22:47
No, I was told not to bring up football with you.
Nestor Aparicio 22:52
Oh, hey, you know. I mean, it’s mixed season here. I mean, I did. Season just ended. I’m glad it’s baseball season, and I’m glad the book is finally out for you. You know, as a child, and I don’t know the answer to this. I mean, I grew up in the early 70s. You mentioned Roy Stillman, like all that, Tom show pay, I’m down with all of that. You’re not never going to get Don Buford or his son, Damon Buford, through me. But 7374 75 you know, I was a kid and a smart kid, and I always want to remember every number, and I knew all the coaches right. Bamburger, Billy Hunter, Jim fry, I never really knew who his real consciliery was, who was Earl’s best guy who through all of it, I never knew me. Bamburger went off the Milwaukee and fry did his thing. Billy Hunter wanted, but did Earl have a ride or die? Did he have a BFF? Really?
John Miller 23:46
It was a pat center on the groundskeeper was his best friend. They were thick as
Nestor Aparicio 23:52
thieves. I knew that friendship, but I didn’t know in baseball that that was and how, how did you access information, other than through the Palmers and the singletons and the players. Were there any contemporaries of his at all who would have maybe some insights, not as more peer to peer than player to
John Miller 24:15
Kim Benson, his stepdaughter, the daughter of his second wife, Marianna, she talked to me quite a bit, as did all three of his children, who are all still living. And so that the personal thing, like the pet center and friendship, came from from them, you know, I’m told Tom Marr, I think you probably knew it was also somebody who would make sure all got to bed on bed, not on time, but got to his own bed in his own room on the road. I talked to a lot of people. I talked to probably 30 Orioles players, everybody from Dempsey to Cal Ripken to Palmer, a little bit media people, umpires to neural by the way, umpires, they would battle with him, but then after, when they were both retired, they would be at the same cocktail circuit. Telling these stories to fans. Well, there was a total off
Nestor Aparicio 25:04
season circuit in every American League. Yeah, there was a Frank slifka who had a topsy sports and would bring Willie Mays in, yeah,
John Miller 25:13
to be more, yeah, to be more. I mean, I should point this out, like or we were the person. I mean, this is a book about earlier, with the baseball manager. So, for example, his drinking, I didn’t pursue stories of him outside of baseball. His widow, Marianna. She’s an old lady now I didn’t bother her. I mean, she talked to me once, and then I didn’t like try to unveil the ins and outs of their marriage. For example, if we ever passed out in the clubhouse? I thought that was fair game to include in the book, if it was in the context of baseball. Those stories are all in there. To be Martinez telling me on the plane one time, Earl was passed out drunk, and they put a cigarette in his mouth and lit it, and he choked on the smoke and woke up. So those stories are all in there. The stories about him and he was a little bit about his children and his marriage. I mean, like all baseball families, it was complicated, because he was often not home. He was on the road with his band of married men. So it’s not a judgment or indictment of him as a human I mean, this is really about him, the baseball person, and the psychology you alluded to all that stuff is in the context of baseball. And so most of the people I talked to were baseball people. I was very intrigued by his family upbringing, Uncle bud. I talked about the bookie. His family gave me documents, pictures. We found police records about Uncle bud being an illegal bookie. I talked to the son of Earl’s high school baseball coach. She told me about how his dad coached high school baseball as a baseball coach myself. That interested me a lot. So there’s a lot of depth, yeah, and again, I think the answer is, I mean, he, you know, Cal Junior did tell me that Earl and Cal senior would go drinking on the road together, and they would get so drunk that Earl would fire Cal senior, and next day he would rehire him. But I don’t know if those were what I would call, like, intimate friendships. I think Pat santaron That was an intimate friendship.
Nestor Aparicio 27:01
Yeah, I just never sort of knew. And through all of this, you know, his life hasn’t been chronicled that way. I don’t want to say he was forgotten. When he left, he would come back and do a Papa wave and have a couple drinks and tell some old stories with Palmer and do that thing, and would come back for the old timer Papa wave thing. And I guess that’s why I felt so honored when you called me doing the book that I had sat down with him for the last time, and you found it like to be compelling, and that he talked to me about things that apparently he didn’t talk to most people about. He was kind of a little taken aback. At one point he got a little chippy with me about ask, like, why, you know, why? Nobody asked me that kind of thing, Kid kind of stuff. But in in the case of peeling back the onion and the interest in the book from a baseball Luke Jones, who’s young, and, you know, was born in the 80s, and thinks of Earl the way we think of Casey Stengel, or somebody you can’t touch or reach in some way. What is the baseball gift in all of this, the three run homer and pitching and defense, you know, all of that, what? What is, what was Earl’s big idea for the game as you see it, I think
John Miller 28:09
that’s a good that. That’s a good question. I think it’s a lot more complicated than people understand. Earl didn’t give up bunting until 1977 that was the year the Orioles pivoted towards, towards the big inning strategy, you know, probably because he had Mark Belanger, who was the worst hitter in baseball history, pretty much. And so he would have Belanger bunt all the time. But they bonded above league average many years, you know, 73 when you got into the Orioles. They were a speed, a pitching and speed team. They had rich Coggins, sure Bailey, young Baylor sure steal bases and so Earl, I mean, his genius was really, he was very adaptive and flexible when you got Eddie Murray, Lee may Lowen, Steinke, then he pivoted towards three run homer. And I tell the story in the book of how he came up with that phrase. But I would say, as a baseball coach, it’s it’s strike throwing, and it’s understanding that you want to be over the plate all the time, and then you just can’t throw the same pitch twice in a row. I mean, I used to coach, when I coach kids hit your spots, probably because of Earl. I don’t do that anymore. I say, throw it down the middle. It’s probably not going down the middle anyway, but just don’t throw the same pitch twice in a row. Change speeds, put some spin on it. And so I think that, to me, understand the mechanics of that is more valuable than the three own Homer thing. And I think Earl understood that you’re going to fail sometimes, sometimes you are going to give up home runs, but you still got to throw it over the plate. You gotta win the battles over the plate and understand the percentages. And the percentages part comes from his gambling, and he understood that if you win three out of five, you’re still going to lose two out of five, but the odds are in your favor. John Miller
Nestor Aparicio 29:48
has inked the quintessential book on the life, a little biography of the last manager. It’s Earl Weaver. How are Weaver trick tormented and reinvented baseball that has gotten high praise, it has made. Available on March the fourth. He will be in Baltimore at Enoch Pratt library on my father’s birthday. March 5. Pisces just in time for March Madness and all of that other stuff that goes into it. I just want to say this on Weaver, because I I’m looking forward to fingering through this thing. I’m hoping to get down to Sarasota for some spring training, and we got an early baseball season. They open in Canada. Getty Lee might be there. So I’m thinking, what would be wrong with Canada for a couple of weeks this time of year? I hear Canada’s nice this time of year. Make some friends up there. I might need him. But I would say this for Earl, and my thoughts about Earl and baseball and all the years of my fandom is he would talk about pitching and three run homers and that sort of that sort of thing. And this is before big money got involved. And we thought big money was involved in 77 and 78 we looked out and saw Don Baylor playing for the angels, at the senses and all that went on, but the pitching he had. And when I go back and I look at the bubble gum Cards Against history, because I lived through it all, whether 6970 71 was a little early for me, but I feel like I was a part of that. I went to playoff games in 73 and four. But 79 to 83 and the thing that elongated Earl’s greatness here and kept that job so he could have the Papa wave off in 82 and then call the game in 83 with poor Joe out the belly and Howard Cosell ribbing him in the seventh inning up with the vet. Crazy stuff that happened, but the pitching man like Flanagan, well, excuse me, Palmer, then Flanagan, Martinez McGregor, just threw that era, and then the early era of the four ugly orange jerseys we’re going to see with Dobson and cue or McNally, it’s we talk about Glavin and Maddox and Smoltz and what Atlanta did. Earl had it on both ends with Palmer, and Palmer’s the greatest Oriole ever. And I can’t say that enough, but the pitching he had and what that represents, not just to make Earl smell good and win a lot and a time where there weren’t wild cards and money and you’d have to pay pitchers two $30 million to keep them around or worry about that. Pitching in Scottsdale had their bit at Scottsdale in his 70s. Palmer would have been a Diamondback, but I would say this, he had great players. But, man, he won and but pitching, pitching and pitching, he knew what to do with it. He knew how to keep it healthy. He got it to the mound, man,
John Miller 32:37
You know, there’s this line about Earl that was Dave McNally said, first, the only thing that Earl knew about pitching was he couldn’t hit it. I mean, it’s ridiculous. You know, the Orioles, they won, I think six Cy Young’s worth. Earl, only two. We’re not with Earl. Trivia question for you and your listeners.
I believe that’s right. Palmer won three. And I think Steve stone, Flanagan, McNally, McNally, and then Flanagan 79 the sixth one, you’re right. Flanagan, yeah, so and no Oriole has won the award since, and no Oriole won before. And then they’ve had, you know, 2220 game winners, I think only two were without Earl. So, trivia question for you and your listeners, can you name the two Orioles Cy Young, 20 game winners without Earl
Nestor Aparicio 33:42
Messina never won 20 so I know that that’s incorrect.
John Miller 33:47
184 there’s your clue. 1984, oh,
Nestor Aparicio 33:50
it’s 84 so was bodiker,
John Miller 33:54
yeah. Bodiker, 120 and 84 Robin Roberts, maybe no. Steve barber and Steve Barber, and six, barber, barber. And that’s it. Everything else is under Earl. And you know, Bill James says this is one of the great mysteries, why Earl’s pictures never got hurt, but they didn’t. I mean, he basically had a four man rotation all the guys through 250 innings, and they just ate up all these innings and starts, and they did really well. And I think it was again, because this philosophy of throw strikes relentlessly, change speeds, be over the plate, let your defense do the work. You know, one of the stats I unearthed, Palmer’s batting average on balls and play was 250 at a time when the league average was 280 so that’s how many extra runs the Orioles defense saved, and rival manager said it was like trying to throw a hamburger through a brick wall to get a ground ball through the infield defense of Brooks, Robinson, Belanger, David Johnson and Bucha
Nestor Aparicio 34:52
Well, throw Aparicio in there at 66 too, but that would be predated Earl also part of the tradition give bow roll. If, hey, I’m trying, man, just, you know, I mean, let me just play. John Miller is here the book is the last manager. How Earl Weaver trick tormented it and reinvented baseball on he’s been tricking and tormenting poor John Miller for the last three and a half years. Dude, like, let’s get through this. What’s really important? That green weird Atlanta a you have on your hat and Larry lekin, I mean, the book’s gonna take care of itself. You got baseball season. You’re managing kids are ya?
John Miller 35:27
Yeah, yeah. We start March 20, all our dice high school the dragons. I love baseball. I love being a part of it. It’s my first time coaching an American high school team. So great challenge for me.
Nestor Aparicio 35:39
All right, you got any, no, you’re not going to say they’re going to be really good. Or you got the right pitcher. You got an eight
John Miller 35:46
kids, two kids who have who are headed to colleges to pitch. But no, nobody is getting drafted this year. But again, Larry Lucchino as a graduate of motorized High School, as our Mac Miller and Wiz Khalifa.
Nestor Aparicio 35:59
You know, Larry Lucchino has a very storied history with with championship rings. You’re aware of that, right? Yeah,
John Miller 36:07
yep. Well, he
Nestor Aparicio 36:09
also has his name on the wall down at Johns Hopkins, where my wife’s life got saved. He was also a cancer survivor before he passed. So Larry the keyno, great friend of mine, great friend of Baltimore, and from your hometown, where you’re coaching baseball now, and Larry’s got a fistful of rings. You know, should have been in Baltimore, but that’s another story altogether. We’ll talk about Peter Angelo. That’ll be your next book. I’ll put you well. I already did that. You give you good research on that. The book is on Earl Weaver. It has happy endings and championships and all of that stuff. The last manager is out, even George Will digs it. You’re going to be in embalming. What are you going to be doing? Practice? Same thing you do with me, answering questions from the people,
John Miller 36:47
yeah, talking about Earl. Also you sharing, yeah, the vision or the story, especially for younger fans who know the myth and the YouTube videos, but don’t know that the human being so looking forward to sharing that
Nestor Aparicio 36:59
I’m gonna chase Eisenberg down too, because I know we some more Weaver stories and bird tapes and all that. Hey, it’s baseball season, right? Like, I you, I was gonna book you a couple weeks ago in January. I’m like, Nah, I’ll book you the day after the parade, the Eagles parade, but I thought was gonna be the Ravens parade. But it is baseball season, and it is nice to kick it off with you. And I’m glad you finally. What are you going to do now? I mean, all you can do is just book is your wife ask you that, what are you
John Miller 37:24
going to do? I have a five week old, so stay alive is the answer.
Nestor Aparicio 37:28
Alright. Well, you exhale. Coach these kids up up there in Pennsyltucky, and we’ll see how it goes. And I have to find some excuse to have you back on now that you’ve had the book out. So when Father’s Day or when the Orioles are making that playoff run and using a three run, home run and a pitching then I’ll, I’ll credit you and make sure we sell some books for you during the holiday. But I hope the book’s a big success for I know. Thank you, and it’s a great topic. Earl Weaver is the topic our favorite manager. The Earl of Baltimore is the last manager. The book is available anywhere good. Books are sold. Come on down to Enoch Pratt library. We don’t burn books around here. We promote them. Some of us write them as well. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S, D. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. It’s baseball season. It’s Baltimore positive. Stay with us.
