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The decision to promote Jackson Holliday came at a curious time this week for many Orioles fans. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the debut and future of the new Number Seven here in Baltimore as the Birds continue to soar into the spring as a World Series contender with a burgeoning cast of young superstars and new ownership.


years, orioles, point, bats, talking, holiday, baltimore, jackson, wednesday night, debut, lineup, good, play, elias, drafted, holliday, baseball, norfolk, thought, day


Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are wn st Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. We are a positive. We’re taking the Maryland crabcake tour on the road. We’ll be there Friday at Bally’s. Yes, I’m wearing my Pappus shirt and therefore Pappus locations were downtown at the new Lexington market. On Friday, I will have Pac Man scratch offs. I’ve been practicing my my Pac Man How to Eat my logo. Luke Jones will be joining us he is Baltimore Luke out on the interwebs. And he and I have been getting together frequently. You know this, this whole baseball team stinking thing most of the last 15 years it’s been breezy and stuff but you know, then you might fall asleep a little early one night when they’re losing five to nothing a wake up to see that they’re winning seven to five. Anything is possible offensively. But more than that, the debut Jackson holiday. And you and I spent much of you know Tuesday night into Wednesday saying why why here why now, right handed pitcher, he comes up to bat in the third inning instead of the first inning, he doesn’t have the crowd yelling his name. He doesn’t have 35,000 people on Friday night that are going to be and he still struck out one over like we go through all of that. But when you talk about soft landing, we all want Oh, come up the Camden Yards. Let us all give you love and all that. You know it was pretty nerve racking even for his dad to kids 20 years old. And when you look at it, my wife says Does he shave?


Luke Jones  01:27

Sure, sure. Look, I still have the why that’s not changing. I don’t think anyone can convince me otherwise of it being weird that he was set down for 10 games and 10 games satisfied the objectives that Mike Elias laid out three weeks ago, but it’s great that he’s here. He’s 20 years old. He’s one of the best prospects we’ve seen in baseball over the last couple of decades when you look at the accelerated development now for four levels, so a minor league ball in one season. So he’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:59

at bats at 20 in the minor leagues to make the big leagues. I’m going back in my lifetime in my lifetime. And I remember when Robin Yount came up. Okay, so like, that’s how old I am. I remember my dad buzzing about 19 year old he might have been 18 at the time, Robin Yount coming up, and I remember the van popples and mistakes. You know what I mean of young players coming up David Clyde, I remember David Clyde nearly 50 years ago. You know, how many guys do this with less than 500 Minor League at bats. I mean, ever at 20, let alone at 23 or 24. If they had 1000s of high school or college at bats and all of that stuff. This is a very, very, very unique case. And it would have been unique 10 days ago to

Luke Jones  02:42

Write Right and that’s my point, right? I mean, whether it’s opening day, whether it was Wednesday night, whether it was three weeks from now, whether it was another month from now there were going to be butterflies, there’s going to be that excitement, whether it’s at Camden Yards, whether it’s at Fenway, whether it’s at Yankee Stadium, as Mike Elias, when he was talking to us in Sarasota even cited, you know, the pressures of playing at a place like Yankee Stadium, but he ripped the band aid off right, experience. Good experience went over for but drove in a run I think fourth youngest Oreo in franchise history to drive into a run, you know, joining the likes of I think it was Brooks Robinson, Ron Hansen and Andy Atterbury. And I think I saw Sarah Lang’s tweet.

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:26


I’m really young. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So

Luke Jones  03:30

you know, that was it that I didn’t know that I’m just passing that along. I saw that on Twitter late Wednesday night. But I think for the most part, and you know, the pop fly that fell in, I felt that was Cedric Bowens ball. And all honestly seeing that, seeing that replay multiple times you want your centerfielder to take charge in a play. Like that wasn’t easy. Either way.

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:48

I also think you’re in a big field, you’re in a new ballpark. It’s all big. It’s the first day it’s tough. That I think the shadows of the right field under centerfield or ate him up. When I looked down at where the shadows came. And when he kind of dipped a little bit. He saw shadow. I think it’s possible.

Luke Jones  04:04

I still I still think that’s the outfielders ball. I mean, I think Cedric Mullins as a veteran Gold Glove caliber kind of centerfielder go back and look at it. He’s not exactly on a dead sprint trying to catch it. Point is there was nothing even that I don’t even know if I’d call it the yips. I think it was a challenging play. And I think the outfielder should have called him off. I’d say that about I’d say about it. If he was a veteran, second baseman. Their point is I didn’t see too much that made me say oh, he looks 20 years old. He struck out a couple times. Sure. He had some swing and miss. They a lot of swing and miss Higgins cutter Crawford who really shut them down for five innings. I thought he had you know some competitive at bats. You know, he had an RBI groundout. It was fine. You know, it wasn’t a historic debut, obviously from a success standpoint, but I didn’t look at him and say, oh, that didn’t look good in the way that frankly, Colton Couser look last year for them. most part not in his debut, but how he looked for that month that he was up in the majors. So I view it through the lens of it was fine. So far, so good. We’ll see. We’ll see how he looks Thursday night. We’ll see how it looks over the weekend and let the kid play. Let it breathe. Right. We talked about this Adley rutschman, who was more than ready for the major leagues a couple of years ago at 24. When the Orioles called him up. He struggled for about four weeks. Gunnar Henderson had his cup of coffee late and 22. And then started last year, he was hitting one one ad as of the second week of May, I think it was so let them play. They’re gonna pencil his name into the lineup probably hitting eighth or ninth, at least for right now get


Nestor J. Aparicio  05:43

him settled up, get him in here. We’ll go to the Brewers if it doesn’t rain and and the thing that struck me this week was Colton Couser being the hero of Birdland and during the postgame thing with Melanie, one of those people. And he looked like he had been there before. He spoke like a big leaguer. He spoke like a grownup. He spoke like a guy that I’d like to talk to if David Rubenstein is so kind to extol upon me a press credential that he calls upon you. I don’t know that any of these kids, right? I don’t know any of them. I’ve dropped you off at the front door at Sarasota and minding my own business. But then I see them on TV. And there’s a part where you feel like are not Are they ready for it? Baseball wise, that’s not for me to say that’s for Mike allies to say that’s for hitting 300 Sarasota against whatever kind of pitching he threw at Jackson Allah? Did he say, Is he ready? Or is he not? But there’s also the part of doing your laundry, catching the bus getting you like being in a new city, being on airplanes like doing all of these things as a 20 year old, on every third day when your stuffs in Norfolk the other day, and you were thinking well, maybe I’ll be up in May, if I got to play well, but you know, but they’re not gonna call me. I don’t think he looked like he was in the office with the manager in Norfolk the other night looking like he was sitting there thinking this is my time, the further along it goes, it becomes more of your time. But I think psychologically, the family doing the laundry, literally you’ll laugh at that, but I I knew Mike Mussina when he was young, I knew all of these guys when they got called up and down. And everything that would happen to every Jeffrey Hammonds in 1990 678, when they would get called up is it’s chaotic. If they have a wife, a dog at this to that parent, this keeps 20 years old. It’s still chaotic. It’s very chaotic, to arrive in Fenway Park arrive in your hotel at 11 o’clock in the morning, you’re 20 years old and Boston. And you’re gonna go play baseball that night. And all the cameras are following you around. Like, I think the modern part of all this starting when these kids are 13 years old, and hold up the Alabama sign and say I’m going out. Like it’s a different era for all that. But I don’t think it’s different when you walk into Fenway Park and it’s your first time and you miss a ball in the outfield, the run scores and you’re walking back and we’re all in. But at least not everybody was there to see you. On a Friday night. This kid’s gonna get the hero’s welcome that weeders got that all of the Curt Schilling got 35 years ago that night, I went out with my dad on the bus and saw him make his debut all of these debut guys. I think this is a lie. It’s been real smart. Put them in a big building, put them against right handed pitching, put them in where you know, there’s MIDI aren’t here, nobody’s flood flooding down. Everybody’s not coming down here to do this. Let them do it on Friday and give them a chance. And I don’t know when Michaelides stood in front of you that he really would have thought that on April 12. He’d be making his debut in Baltimore, right. Like, he seemed pretty convicted in Sarasota that this kid needed more time. Yeah.

Luke Jones  08:37

And that’s where, well, I’m, you’re still not going to convince me that this wasn’t weird as far as the timing of it or the handling of it. But it’s fine. Like I’m not sitting here. I have intellectual curiosity about it. You know, that I just do because 10 days is not a meaningful sample. 10 games is not a meaningful sample. If you tell me he needs to work on this and this. So that’s all? Well, the one thing they’ve eliminated

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:01

was the clock starting thing, right? We were talking about about money and about John Angelo. Is that overweight? So that’s good. That’s good. Yeah. Well, I

Luke Jones  09:09


mean, other than if he struggles, and then they send them back down. I mean, your band, that’s a distinct possibility. Right. Exactly. Gotta go. Yeah, yeah. For a competitive contending club. Right. It’s a club that one 101 games last year. So you know, again, I don’t want to dwell too much on that, because the excitement and the fun and the electricity of him being up is all there and that’s going to continue to be there. Not just Friday night when they give out T shirts, and they’re going to have a really good crowd. I mean, first Friday night home game of the 2024 season and I mean, this kid’s been talked about for a couple of years. The difference now and I even wrote this I went back and look and even LinkedIn in my 12 Orioles thoughts, kind of recapping Wednesday night’s game was the difference for him and this. What came in the full focus on Wednesday night is he’s not like Cadley Richmond coming here a couple years ago where he, you know, rutschman was viewed as the Savior even though we knew Gunnar Henderson and other guys were on the way. We saw Gunnar Henderson a few months after that, but at least rutschman was the face of the rebuild. Right. I mean, they were as low as the Orioles have ever been on the field. When they drafted him one one, you know, first time they drafted someone first of all since Ben McDonald, you know, 30 years before that. So the difference with Jackson Holliday is he doesn’t have that level of pressure, other than just the general pressure of debuting in and of itself, but he was around this with his father for a you know, not a Hall of Fame career but a hall of very good career seven time all star a kind of career up throughout the day on social media. I mean, there are video clips of Jackson Holliday being around major league baseball stadiums and, and even running around and having fun with his dad and you know, at three years old, 10 years old, whatever it was, the videos are great, right? But but he’s been the point is he’s been around us. So that’s where like and what you just had to say about young players in general is right, but he’s been around it to a different degree not to say there aren’t any nerves.

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:10

Well, let me if Ben McDonald and I were still friendly after 30 years because we were 30 years ago. I remember. And I tweeted with Ben this week, I don’t know if you call it that or not. Ben tweeted me back. Thank you, Ben. And Ben took me out to lunch with Brad Pennington at Benihana in Toronto in 1994. We were in the lobby of the harbor Castle, Westin. He’s like I get in the cab. I’ll buy you lunch. We’re going over to Benihana. And I’m like okay, let’s get pretty good, Ben. So we go over and I started like we were just having lunch and so Johnny ballgames you go to nasty you from Baltimore, right? And I’m like, Man, I went to gate I bought the 40 games 3040 games a year. Is it my dad, he took me one time to the Astrodome to see Nolan Ryan pitch. When Ben McDonald came up to pitch came out of the bullpen, John RAF lead is an hour down in Ocean City, and he was the Savior and he came out of the bullpen. The night that he came in to pitch. It was like the second or third time he’d ever been in a big league ballpark in his life. Like because he didn’t have a dad to play the big leagues for 15 years. So my memories of having a press credential. All the years that I had one I absolutely 1,000,000% 100,000,000% saw Prince Fielder on the couch in the visitors clubhouse with his father, when his father was a tiger 1,000,000% and 1,000,000%. I saw rock reigns. Tim Raines, son, when Tim Raines was at the end, that’s just playing, but I’m talking about little kids. Early on in my Tony Gwynn Jr. Saw them all the time when he was a boy. And then he became a man who played so like all of these years that seeing these players, I don’t need to talk about Cal Sr, who I never really spoke to because I was always intimidated by him. But what that’s meant for the Ripken family even to the point where they given the number seven. So you know, my last name is Aparicio I, you know, I have more more than more respect for people who played the game and people around the game and their children, being prodigies to the game because there’s a long century old heritage of families like the RIP skins and families like the bells and families like the boons that just make a lot of like the ball fingers in football, they make a lot of like, make a lot of baseball players, you know.

Luke Jones  13:25

Yeah. And look that doesn’t guarantee success, but it puts you in a position that you are very familiar with, what it looks like, what it entails, what it requires, the perks of it, the drawbacks of it, all of that. So I think that’s why when you heard Mike Elias speak about Jackson holiday, and I don’t mean three weeks ago in Sarasota when they reassigned them, but just in a general sense, even going back to two years ago, when at the time keep in mind, there was plenty of debate between holiday and another pedigree kid in Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones, who got hurt right after signing with Arizona, he’s had multiple injuries. He’s still at low APR. I mean, think about that. He’s still at low a ball. That’s not a 90, like go to the Hall of Fame. Literally.

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:08

Early, right. I mean, I don’t know about going


Luke Jones  14:09

to the Hall of Fame, but he’s still fine, right? He’s a 20 year old at a ball. It’s not like it’s I’m sure Diamondbacks fans are disappointed in saying wow, it would have been nice if the Orioles didn’t take Jackson holiday. And we did. But the point is, there’s also luck involved. There’s also fortunate involved in this process, but the Orioles pick the right guy clearly. And, you know, he’s, he’s definitely mature beyond his years in terms of everything we’ve seen. He’s married at age 20, which, in this day and age, more and more peculiar, but hey, if that’s if they’ve met the love of his life, and that’s how it’s gonna go great for him. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:48

help him acclimate in Baltimore to be married. Sure, should I give him one less thing to get in trouble with actually about 100 things less to get in trouble for he’s good luck. You

Luke Jones  14:57

would certainly hope so. Right? So I mean, it’s all sitting there and that’s why I said the way Mike Elias has talked about holiday, despite his age, again, we’re talking about someone who’s not going to be 21 until December. You really have gotten the sense that he’s just so confident that this kid is going to be absolutely as good as he’s as he’s capable of being whether that’s a Hall of Famer whether that’s a seven time all star like his dad, or whether that’s just hey, he’s a good player, but he’s never a great player, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. So but they think he’s gonna be a great player, right? I mean, the consensus around baseball for quite a while has been the kid’s special. So it didn’t flash before your eyes on Wednesday night in the results, and that’s fine. You know, it’s one game of baseball. But the point I was getting ready to make is he’s walking into such a good situation that he hit ninth and the guys hitting seventh and eighth were also former first round picks in recent years and they combined to drive in five runs the lead a five nothing comeback victory. Seven the five so ehresmann riches,

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:06


right. Yeah. For all these names. We’ve talked about all of these guys in any era. Take any of these six guys, right? That are the young guns on this team. In any era if the Orioles had one of them. I mean in the oral history going back 40 years for every Jim Fuller and drugo Hayes wood and Bob Baylor and Ken Gerhard and Craig Worthington. I’m making you sick, aren’t I, Jeffrey Hammonds, Mr. Rocky copy, we go through all of these guys that were going to be an all star. Matt Wieters was going to go to the Hall of Fame, right? Like all of these names. Marcus was a very good, like a very good player that a very, very good career that will just be ho hum about was Marcus Marcus, a really good player, but much like holiday, they said he’s not going to hit for power. And he kind of really never did in that way. Right?

Luke Jones  16:55

Yeah, well, I mean, Marcus did a lot of doubles. You know, his first first four or five years he had for more power than he ended up kind of, he’s not gonna be

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:03

a 3030 year kind of guy. Like, the way Adam Jones has power came on. He had a lot of homeruns. Yeah,

Luke Jones  17:09

I mean, Jackson holiday. I’m not gonna put any cap on someone who’s 20 years old. And playing in the majors. I mean, now, do I think he’s gonna be a 50? homerun guy one day? No, but if you tell me right now, like if you have the orange crystal ball and say he’s a guy that hits 30 home runs a year. I’m not gonna bat an eyelash about that. And you think about that, as a second baseman or shortstop long term wherever he ends up playing, and we’ll see how that plays out in the coming years. It’s gonna be their second baseman for the foreseeable future with Gunnar Henderson at short. No. Kids already gotten stronger if you look at him this year, compared to last year, when he put up incredible numbers starting at Delmarva and finishing up in Norfolk. Now he’s already


Nestor J. Aparicio  17:49

feeling big, though. He’s not he’s not Aaron judge. Well, he’s not. Yeah,

Luke Jones  17:53

I mean, he’s not six foot five. You know, he’s not Corey Seager, but he’s also filled out and you see the forearms and I don’t mean like, steroids, steroids, you know, innuendo or anything like that. Just that Steve Garvey, Steve is a 1920 21 year old. I mean, his dad, no bad holiday, big frame, you know, like not not not talking Aaron judge big but big guy looked like a legit Major League hitter and was for a long, long, long time. So, you know, it’s just for him. It’s just a matter of coming in and fitting in, you know, he doesn’t need to come in and bat leadoff or second or third, although, if he’s as good as he’s been at every other level, then he’ll probably be hitting it in the top half of the order before too long. But for right now, he comes in, gets acclimated. And he’s part of a team that is seven and four and a team that, you know, hasn’t gotten off to the most amazing start with the bats, but there is plenty of juice in that lineup and I think what’s amazing Nestor is Wednesday night. Let’s go through the lineup really quick. Gunner Henderson first round pick or second round pick 2019 Right after Adley rutschman Adley rutschman. Of course one one. Anthony Santander wasn’t drafted by the Orioles but taken in the Rule five and has played nowhere else. But Baltimore is a major leaguer and his has turned himself into a really rock solid Major League hitter, Ryan O’Hara and the one cast off that they got from the Kansas City Royals, everyone else now castled Mullins, Couser Westberg holiday all drafted by the Orioles whether it’s Mike Elias or the end of the Dan Duquette era, so to have a lineup of technically seven out of nine, but really eight out of nine because Santander again was not remotely a finished product when he was taken in the Rule five draft to essentially have eight out of nine guys that you have not drafted but cultivated at the very least, you know, nurture developed, and seven of those guys legitimately being drafted. I mean, that’s, that’s crazy talk. You know what it makes me think of Nestor whenever you checked out something like baseball prospectus or baseball America, and they’re looking at a farm system. And usually when you see a section like that, whether you’re talking about a magazine, they still they still have those, I think, or whether you’re just talking about it on a website, you’ll generally see a projected lineup, that’s two or three years out. And it’s always homegrown players, because you can’t, you know, you can’t predict free agent signings or trades or anything like that. Wednesday night was as close as you get to if you had two years ago, what would be the projected 2024 lineup? You could have anticipated? All you know, eight of those nine guys other than O’Hearn being acquired last offseason. So if you read a, you know, up baseball America type magazine in July of 2022, right after they selected holiday, and someone said, Oh, they’re 2024, although it probably would have been 2025. Because even then no one would have said holiday would have been to the majors as quickly. But all homegrown guys in a projected lineup. That’s something you see in baseball America magazine, not against the Red Sox Wednesday night at Fenway Park team that is coming off of a first place play off season. So I mean, it’s why I wrote I mean, if you look at the 21 months, you know, just go back to when holiday was drafted not even going back before then when the Orioles it started to turn the corner a couple months before that back in 22. But you couldn’t ask the plan, you know, not even the rebuild, because the rebuild is long gone at this point. But you could not have asked everything to play out as well as smoothly as it has from a player development standpoint. And that’s even with Grayson Rodriguez, having the the injury the second half of of 22. That’s even with DL haul not developing into, you know, a top half of the rotation guy, although we’re gonna see him this weekend, you know, it

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:56

just feels like they’ve all been successes, right? And like literally right, it just feels like they’ve hit on everybody. They might even hit on just about ours may go and play for the Yankees for eight years and being all like, who knows, right? But they knows they’re not gonna have room for him here. Like, like,

Luke Jones  22:11


right here. Unless Unless someone else gets traded, and then that opens up a spot for him. I mean, that’s just where we are at this point. So I mean, my goodness, we talked about it. And I’m not saying this to pat myself on the back at all, because lots of people were saying this, but Colton Couser at the very least at this point in time. We were seeing a platoon in left field. I mean, he’s starting against right handed pitching now he is ousted and all star from eight months ago, like literally right, like for at bats right now.

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:40

That’s where he is in first round pick. Right? I mean, a blue chip. Prospect. And but that’s just one. And he’s not even at the top four. Maybe not even at the top five in this organization right now. Yeah.

Luke Jones  22:54

I mean, it’s just, there’s, it’s an embarrassment of riches. It really is. And that’s that’s why when I’ve looked at this when I’ve talked about the pitching when I’ve seen the logjam in the outfield or the infield, when when I criticize, you know, saying, hey, you need to make another move or, you know, go trade one of these guys that’s blocked for a pitcher. I don’t say that saying that Mike Elias has done a poor job. I mean, that would be dumb to say that, but it’s just it really, truly is a case of you have so much of this talent, that I don’t know how they’re all going to get here. I know Holliday talked about it before the game on Wednesday, that he has, you know, he has a Text group with the other guys that are at Norfolk right now talking about Kobe mayo and Connor Norby and stout hours and Heston Karstadt. And they all kind of said, one down four to go. And look, that’s stuff that early 20 Somethings are saying, that’s fine. You know, their friends are on the road and riding the buses at the minor leagues. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:50

mean, that’s, that’s a different culture, you know, compared to play and creates different relationships don’t stay with you the rest of your life literally, right?


Luke Jones  23:58

We all know the reality of that is they’re not all going to be in the majors unless they end up making a couple of trades, and they do trade a haze or someone like that. So, but it’s gonna be very

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:08

interesting talks on his radio show all the time about all these players that were his contemporaries, right. Like, he’s not in the big leagues. He never made it. He’s doing radio. He’s very good at it. He’s nice guy. But these are the other guys that he expected to be on the field with, you know, like, and it doesn’t happen for everybody, even if your name is Ripken, right. Literally. Yeah,

Luke Jones  24:28

I mean, that’s a good example. And look, I mean, he was at that point, he was already kind of the career minor league guy at that point when he did play with some of these guys because he was at no point was he a prospect with the Orioles? Right. I mean, what the Nationals drafted him all that but yeah, there’s a perfect example. It doesn’t always work out. Not that Ryan Ripken was never really a prospect. I mean, he was never

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:52


the name we know but there’s dozens because it’s those guys riding buses that are never going to make it right. These couple of guys that you I mean, Kobe man is gonna get hit. He’s gonna have it back to the big leagues now, whether it makes it or not ours, they’re all going to based on the way they’re playing in Norfolk right now based on their ages. They’re all going to be in the big leagues in the next 18 months are given a chance to play if they don’t get in somewhere.

Luke Jones  25:13

Yeah, yeah, I mean, barring an injury. Absolutely. I mean, ours has already been here, right? Yeah, we’ve seen him struggle. In the way we saw Colton Couser struggle last year, and now we’re seeing Colton cows are having a lot of success, you know, carrying them, you know, not carrying them but being a major part of what they’re doing offensively at this point. So it’s, it’s fun. And again, that’s where I go back to the pressure and the spotlight that was on Adley rutschman. At that point in time in the rebuild, compared to now where it’s Jackson holiday where? Look, I don’t I don’t say this lightly. They have high expectations for Jackson holiday. That’s obvious, right? I mean, you don’t bring someone up to the major leagues 20 years and a few months, if you didn’t have expectations through the moon. I mean, you mentioned the lack of minor league at bats. You were seeing the comps. I saw it on MLB Network TV, Wednesday morning, they put up the comps of the number of bats that he had compared to Juan Soto and his accelerated development before you arrived in DC at a very simple rage. So I mean, that’s, that’s very rare territory there. So that’s where I say the sky’s the limit. I mean, it’s not talking out of turn to say that this kid doesn’t have Hall of Fame potential. It’s not me predicting that he’s going to be all famer. The point is, when you’re talking about a 20 year old reaching the major leagues, the ceiling is I mean, it’s as high as it gets for him

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:38

when you swing him. Don’t bring him up and say, let’s see how he does. Let’s see if he can handle it. Sure. When you’re in the pennant race, and you already have credible Major League, even if they are uresa, Matteo and camp, whatever, whatever. And by the way, they kept things very classy. I want to throw that out as well. But knows Yeah, yeah, but but that’s not out of character for him. That’s why they brought him in here. You need to have more of that. Let less of that in a general humanity. But we do spotlight it as being special in baseball that somebody would actually do that. But I’m a veteran guy and he was on the roster opening day got some some money for that. But for me with thinking about this holiday thing to your point, Tuesday night, we sent out the tags were like he’s coming off, he’s coming to Boston. And in your mind, in my mind, we’re thinking Are you sure? Like what, what, why your why? And I guess I’m scratching my head for a day and a half and thinking about it. Fenway Park, right handed pitching keep away for Baltimore game a couple of days to get ready. But to your point, they’re convicted. They didn’t bring him up because Rubinstein’s on the phone saying I want to see the 20 year old, you know, like they’re convicted to do this. And I think it would be devastating for them if may 8, they have to send him back because he didn’t 143 and really struggling and like if they didn’t really they weren’t completely convicted, they wouldn’t have brought him up because they didn’t have to. They didn’t have to. That’s probably the biggest thing on Tuesday. You were like, here, what? You don’t have to do that right now. You know, but maybe they felt like, yeah, we need the offense. And this is where it’s going to be at the end of the year. Let’s go. Let’s get him up here. And, and I don’t know what point that change or whether Elias is going to be honest about it. But it’s clear, I always say to you on drafting, here’s how you’re going to draft, you’ll see you’ll see when the 13th picks up out how he rates players and what we saw how they feel about him, despite the fact and Sarasota couple weeks ago, they were like you’re like, Well, maybe the clock maybe this left handed pitching all of those excuses. It is curious. But it’s also inevitable. Right? So pulling the band aid off, as you said earlier.

Luke Jones  28:38

Yeah. And but, and that’s where and again, I don’t want to dwell on this point, because I don’t think it’s in the grand scheme of things going to be make or break. But, you know, that’s where I kind of said it when I say why now, it’s not me saying, Oh, he needs another month. It’s me saying, I don’t know why they just didn’t bring them north on opening day. That’s all and look left handed starters out. I hear all that. I think it’s all flimsy. But he’s here. And that’s what matters. And he’s part of a team that’s already really good. And now they have the potential to be even better. And you have this kid who has this extraordinary talent, I don’t think it’s going to be too big for him. That doesn’t mean he’s not going to have some struggles. I think that’s inevitable. I think that’s where people need to be patient, whether he was going to be up on opening day, two weeks later, or a month from now. I think that’s where some patience is warranted. If he does get off to a three for 30 start, let’s pump the brakes on saying oh, he needs to go back to the minors. You know, if it’s three for 60, then Okay, then we’ll we’ll revisit that in the way that we had to with Colton counselor who, by the way already has more hits this year than he had last year in the major leagues and more extra base hits. So it speaks to again there’s a learning curve even for guys that were college hitters. So you know, all that being aside put his name in the lineup every day, let him go out there, you know, he’s gonna He’s going to have a hiccup here or there. Again, like I said, I still think that pop fly that fell I, I’ll continue to say I thought that was Cedric Mullins ball to go after maybe he doesn’t catch it. But I think he has the better angle there should always be the outfielder calling off an infielder it’s easier to come in and go back on a play like that. But even though it happened, so what I mean he’s, he’s ready to be at this level, as we always say. And we’ve seen this with numerous prospects that have come up here over the last two to three years. Development does not finish it triple A Norfolk, it continues in the Major League. So it’s important to remember that the good news is, and that’s why I keep coming back to this. He’s not viewed as the Savior. He’s viewed as one of the boys, right? I mean, that’s literally what this is. And they had two guys hitting before him in the bottom third of the lineup on Wednesday night, who drove in five runs who were former first round picks themselves, and it just speaks to how crazy their collection of talent is, at this point in time, grab


Nestor J. Aparicio  31:05

the pizza before the game, and the guys making pizza in the pizza shop. who no longer sponsor us. I’m not gonna plug him but said to me, Hey, where’s the baton in the lineup? Once we get a piece of like Nike saying, Oh, I like that. Yeah, we’re trying to Henderson and rutschman. You know, that’s like, so I can’t begin to tell you the last time anybody walked up to me in a pizza shop. And he’s Baltimore and started talking, where somebody’s batting a lineup. You know what I mean? Like, it’s a whole different level, where’s he batting? You know, what position are they going to put him in to succeed? And I would think at this day and age, you’re talking about Elias and this kind of organization, and John Angelos is off sunning himself somewhere that this organization is going to be very grown up about how this is handled. So, you know, they made their decision. He’s here, and that says they think he’s ready. And yeah, and they’ve also tried to put him in a position in the lineup to protect them a little bit to to your point.

Luke Jones  32:02

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, a couple of things. One, you touched on it, I’m glad about it. Tony camp class, might we all show such grace in the face of personal disappointment to express wishes of good luck and you know, even shared an anecdote of seeing a young Jackson holiday at one point in time. So that was cool to see. Really appreciated the reverence shown between the Ripken and the holiday families for Jackson holiday to be wearing number seven, you know, a number that hadn’t officially been retired but had not been issued by the Orioles, since Cal Sr. was dismissed back after the 92 season. I mean, Billy’s the last guy to have worn it as a player in 88, after Cal SR was fired after an O and six start, which 36 years later still ridiculous to hear that and that was that even preceded Peter Angelos. Google

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:50

Matt Holliday all of his career he spoke of Cal Ripken being his favorite player.

Luke Jones  32:55


Yeah, and he was number seven for most not his entire career, but his run in St. Louis, where he played into World Series. So cool to hear the holiday family had reached out to Cowell reached out to Billy to say, Hey, Jackson, number seven is always been a number that He’s liked. Would it be okay for him to wear it? And I think this is also where Cal Ripken being part of the new ownership group certainly didn’t hurt matters as it pertained to getting that done. All for it. The number wasn’t officially retired, as I saw some people point out on Facebook and Twitter and whatnot. I mean, lots of people remember Cal sr 47, as much as wearing number seven. Right. And Blanche award number seven for years, of course. So yeah, I thought that that was a fun, fun little, you know, not anecdote, but just a subplot of the debut, that he’s wearing that number, knowing what that number means to the Ripken family seeing the Ripken family give their blessing cow on social media Billy on MLB Network and, and Jackson Holliday even was asked about it before the game and he said I’m honored to wear it. And look, I’m not going to sit here and say that Jackson Holliday is intimately familiar with Cal Sr, someone who passed away before he was even born. But I think he certainly understands the importance of the Ripken family. And to your point, Matt Holliday certainly understands the importance of the Ripken family and the history of Baltimore baseball. So I just thought that was cool. I mean, I thought short of him hitting a homerun on Wednesday night, the debut and how, you know his arrival, putting aside the questions from guys like me who just wondered about that, why and why now, and not opening day, whatever. Forget about that. How it was handled Wednesday and his arrival and the excitement and seeing you made mention this, okay, it was Fenway go look at some of the pictures of the dugout when he did his pregame media. It was a mob scene. So there were still some national reporters who made made it there. But I thought it all went up came off without a hitch and oh yeah, the Oreos erase the five nothing deficit on a night when Corbin was not very good. But I also was a little unlucky. I thought that pop fly, really bad Miss third strike call on a, you know a three two pitch to to debres that would have gotten them out of the fifth and then he gives up the homerun right after that. So he wasn’t good enough. I’m not gonna sit here and try to talk up a five five inning outing where he gave up five runs, but I just don’t know that

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:19

you can’t start baseball games in October with him. We really are in there. That’s all well, he

Luke Jones  35:25

put him. I mean, in fairness, even as they’re presently constructed, he’s not starting baseball. He’s there. Number five start. I mean, that’s right. But yeah, keep wasn’t good enough. And look on paper. If means comes back, at the very least, Corbin is the guy to go if Bradish comes back also, and he’s getting getting ready to start a rehab start. And that’s a big if I understand that. I mean, you’re

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:47

Kramer won’t be starting games in October, right? Well,


Luke Jones  35:49

probably Tyler wells. I know Tyler Wells was officially the number three starter team. Dean Kramer’s clearly out pitched him early on and has the track record of last year two point is they didn’t go into the season saying oh Corbin is one of our five. It’s where they are right now from a health standpoint. And in the meantime, you have Kate Povich, and McDermott and some other guys that trip away that, you know, could get a look at some point in time. But I’ll say it again because look at I had still do. Concerns about the bullpen in a big picture sense. They were lights out on Wednesday night. I’ll say this, the guy that has really come along kind of out of nowhere. What’s gotten into key and Aiken. I mean, he’s been excellent for them. He was supposed to be the long man and the pen, you know, give them length on the night where Corbin gets knocked out in the third inning or something like that. And he’s pitching and more and more, at least higher leverage situations because of how well he’s throwing. I mean, he threw two innings and striking people out. And

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:52

well, three years ago, he would have been considered one of their better arms, right? I mean, he was one of the guys when Bundy was still here, like all of that that was on the track. And to your point, it doesn’t happen fast for everybody. It doesn’t mean that you know, somebody who’s stuck in it and I able right now we’ll go to the Hall of Fame, or the Keegan aka won’t have a 10 year career and be the Jim Johnson of this bullpen at some point. I don’t know you know, but, but it is heartening. And again, this is so different than the Angelo’s regime or even anything buckshaw Walter back is that all the one track record on Alias through all of this is guys get better. Guys get better here. They figure out spin rate on pitchers, they figure out launch and they figure out things in the cage, they figure out things through video. And if they have the right person who can modify you know, you always come with the Sigma Dell, you know what I mean? Growth Mindset, right? If they if they have those kinds of guys, then they can improve. And yeah, you can a can, it does not shock me. I don’t quit on any of these guys in this system, if they have talent, and if they’re healthy, because I think this organization gives them clearly. I mean, I’ve never been more bullish on this. I don’t sit here all day and talk about it. But they went 103 games this year, we’ll be talking about it every day, how good they are, and how good they are at talent evaluation. And that’s all well and good. It’s one thing to say, Jackson, I’m gonna He’s gonna be great. Let’s bring him up to everything to have ready to play when he’s 20 You know that? It’s on him for sure. But the sports science they do around here and the way that they look at analytics and the way that they’re taking care of their players in the way that they teach their players. They’re doing it better than anybody there top of class so give John Angelo’s two points for that for hiring the right people.

Luke Jones  38:40

He did he did I mean say what you want about everything else and we’ve we’ve said plenty probably will still say plenty in the future as we see how new ownership shapes reshapes you know evolves you know in terms of how the organization looks, but you’re right and look, even if Keegan Aikens back in Norfolk at this time a month from now he’s given them some major contributions right now and it’s kind of what you need right? Cano came out of nowhere last year, Batista a couple years before that, so I mean, that’s that’s how this works. So at this point in time, despite my concerns about the bullpen and I still have them big picture wise but boy they were really good on Wednesday night and it was a big reason why they were able to stage a comeback from a five nothing deficit as they got the cutter Crawford out of the game and another night second straight night also Red Sox defense bad i mean he you catch her bad I mean that you can’t kick the ball around like against the Orioles or anyone the Al east and expect to win games so you know that little bit of a reality check for the Red Sox the last couple nights and hey, now it’s a matter of grace and Rodriguez, opportunity for a sweep and coming home and what’s going to be surely an electric atmosphere on Friday night with Jackson Holliday making his debut so a lot of fun. And as I wrote in my 12 Orioles, thought In the aftermath of the holiday debut, it’s really fun time to be an Orioles fan with this latest debut in addition to all the other guys that are already here, and more on the way in the coming weeks and months and years,

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:13 come see us if at least on Friday, I will have Nan scratched off Pac Man and I made a mistake. I was Oh my John Martin from the Maryland lottery. I call this a losing ticket. He’s like, no, no, no, no, no, this is a non winning ticket. It’s a second chance ticket. So I’m gonna let everybody know that we’re going to have that and second chances and third chances to go to the Orioles game and four chances to get delicious crab cakes at the all new Lexington market will be at fadeless from two until five live. I’m holding live radio you know, it adds to the gray in my beard. I am Nestor. We are WNS TA and 1570, Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking. Baltimore positive.

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