The Legacy of Lamar Jackson vs. other NFL quarterbacks

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As the Maryland Crab Cake Tour presented by The Maryland Lottery, Window Nation and Jiffy Lube rolls toward the holidays, it’s always great to have Weis conversation with local authors like John Eisenberg, who recently wrote “Rocket Men,” a history of what led to the opportunity for someone like Lamar Jackson to change the quarterback game.


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Nestor J. Aparicio, John Eisenberg

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:00

In America, W N S, ci, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive or positively in Parkville. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. Thankfully it’s so awesome 50th anniversary scratch off because I am running out of ravens scratch offs had another winner here at the bar. Ross is going to send some relief for me for the holidays. We take the Marilyn crabcake tour on the road. We’re at Pappas in Parkville. John Eisenberg is our guest. It’s also brought to you by our friends at window nation 866 90 nation. I don’t have a Jiffy Lube but trinket to put you know should just pull the sticker off the inside of my car and bring that in. When my little orange light goes on. I go to Jiffy Lube MultiCare you do the same. There’s one right around the corner here. We’re Taylor Avenue. We’re in the heart of Parkville I’m wearing my Warren Moon row Jersey the white roadie Rocket Man has Warren Moon in the blue as well as Patrick mahomes No Lamar Oh come on. Tomorrow the cover

John Eisenberg  00:55

yeah no it was not well not my call believe me

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:57

he’s two Super Bowls away from from being covered right.

John Eisenberg  01:00

Well this guy we’ve moved in when one so

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:03

all the fame Yes. Yes. He was we’re a weaver would say to effing Hall of Fame. Right. That’s

John Eisenberg  01:07

right. That’s right. Well, Lamar, you know, soon enough, maybe Volume Two will say

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:12

Alright, so I put this up here like this and maybe that way cuz Cindy will be upset if I don’t do it the right way. So there we go. I got Warren and there we go. All right, good. It’s gonna fall out our blue. All right. Couple things. First things first, Pappas Parkfield, Steve’s going to come on. I’ve got Christian Horton coming by to talk about my awful 8379 and four, I’ve just I’m five and nine. This week five, and on week four, we’re gonna be the Hollywood casino next Friday. We’re going to have Tom Kelso from the Maryland stadium authority. So I’m taking notes here like a good reporter. I got four colors for John Eisenberg was a mentor to me, it’s covered all sorts of things got this great book out, or you could check it out. But more than that, you a little bit of a crab cake. I don’t say a snob but an aficionado for being, you know, a Texas guy. You’ve been here for two years. You told me you did a little tour. And I want you to tell that story because it’s sort of related to why I’m doing the crab cake tour.

John Eisenberg  02:05

Yeah, well, so in the neighborhood where I live, unfortunately, one of the a couple the wife died very sad and unfortunate. And so the other guys in the neighborhood, me included, said Well, let’s take the husband out. We waited a few months started taking him out every six weeks, two months, just to cheer him up some and it was a crab cake tour crab cake tour. We said let’s go let’s go what makes people happier than a crab cake. Yeah, let’s go investigate. So I won’t say everywhere we went, you know, probably not your sponsors, or you don’t work with them or whatever. But Pappas here was one of them and showed up very well. You know, and some other ones, you know, Coco’s down there next Wednesday. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Great place. And so tons of places and and but Pappas in Parkville. Nice, big fat good. crabcake. So my

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:54

wife knows like to scratch she didn’t eat crabs. We started and this morning, she’s like, bring it Pappas crab cake. I’m like, alright, but but if I’m in Costa Rica, like, that’s the thing. They’re all different. That’s about it. Yeah. They’re all really different. And they’re all delicious. And you should come have all of them. I remember and I reached out to Dan Rodricks, I reached to Michael Alaska, I reached the Marty bass. I had to reach the wrong mass. Maybe Ron would know. But I’m talking to old school people. There was a story written in the paper on evening magazine of a bunch of old guys like a, like thinking going and style art Carney, you know, George Burns, that that did this 40 years ago in the 80s, late 70s. And it’s the same place as he thought they were going around to all the Angelenos at a crab. So there was this great crab cakes in his town then. And there was a story written about them very publicly. And I remember seeing I thought that’s a great idea that you’ve had here, so I’m not the only one with this. Let’s go around and do crabcake thing. Oh, yeah. So it’s a great way to go around here. No doubt about it. I’m doing the crab cake tour next Thursday at at gertrudes at the BMA not to be confused with the Walters. Rodricks Yeah, yeah, I have not had their crab cake and that’s, I’m sure it’s good. A lot of people when they consider a crab cake tour, they put gertrudes on that list. And I feel remiss, John shields knows I’ve been trying to get in. He has a vegan crab cake. And I’ve been trying to get Jamie Raskin who’s vegan, too, maybe. And it hasn’t happened, but I’ll work on that. So next Thursday, I make gertrudes. And really, the reason that isn’t just John shields to the BMA and holidays. It’s Dan, you saw Dan show you and I think we’re talented guys and we write books and we’re good at stuff and whatever. You’ve known Dan, since you got off the boat he got off the boat. You both were like x patted from other places. You were imported to Baltimore to the sun to tell the locals what the out of town guys Charlie Ekman would say Right, right. You’re an expert. You’re from out of town. You know, Dan ran up against that being a young columnist at a paper that was trying to hire young people really talented writers that think Dan did last year was one of the greatest things I’ve ever saw no doubt about it. And I’m taking 40 of my friends sponsors, Dennis Colossus, Leonard Rhett, we’re all going to see the show together on December the eighth. I made it tonight I bought for Dan can’t believe I’m buying 42 I’m like, Dan, relax. It’s my holiday event for my for my people that can’t believe your brain. I said, No, if you love Baltimore, and you love by Baltimore positive written right here, right? You love Baltimore. This thing’s like mandatory man. Oh,

John Eisenberg  05:44

absolutely. He nailed it so much. And I told him that. And you know, you’ve been in a town a long time when the guy writes a play like that. And I’ve worked with Dan core soldiers, and I know the people who are in the play. Yeah, Kevin Richardson, Jim Bigwood. You know, who definitely had a role in there. And so guys like that, that, you know, you just he was four years out at MPT was the sound guy and is now doing the sound ad campaign. Yeah. So, you know, you feel like well, this is this is community theater. It’s your town. And but Dan did such a nice job. Just it was a very emotional, I will say, he made me cry. It’s a very emotional thing. He just hits out of the park and I’ve already got tickets to see the second one. He’s gonna do one on the courts. And he’s written it and I’ve already bought tickets. I sure hope it is

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:33

Valentine’s Day. It’s coming out. So it’s gonna be next Thursday in the crabcakes. Right. Gertrude is talking about that going to be Coco’s on Wednesday is going to be in Hollywood casino on Friday with Tom Cal. So I’m gonna get to you with that with the MSA. The book is Rocket Man. And then anything else you want to say? Could as we segue into Lamar, because I mean, I want to do Lamar with you. And then I definitely want to do a little stadium and a little Angelo’s and a little, you know, okay. But this book and what,

John Eisenberg  06:57

Lamar is the last chapter, he has, regardless when loser draw, he’s the last chapter in this book.

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:03

Okay. So, tell me what you talk to other people about when because you’re there for Lamar, you’ve been sort of thrown out, I’ve been sort of thrown out to not be able to witness this from the inside to be at his locker. After every game the way we were for raid. We were for cow, right, the way we were for Messina, or for John Ogden, or Ed Reed or, you know, the Lamar thing. It’s still very in play. And I remember they were saying this about Eli Manning, and Peyton Manning until they’re, I mean, this, this isn’t raised this, we paid you $52 million. Flacco has got a gig now, right? We pay all this money, you have to win, right? Sure. I think there’s that. But there is also the style of play. That’s unlike anything anybody’s ever seen or won with, or quite frankly, and I always bring this up with you. Something nobody else has ever believed in No, even last year when anybody could have had him. If they came up there, Anthony Richardson, you know, nobody wanted him. Yeah,

John Eisenberg  07:59

yeah. So things have changed in this story, in black for black quarterbacks, even in the time that Lamar has been in the NFL 2018. Think about the stuff that he went through with a scout for the Chargers telling him, hey, I hope you’re on the 40 at the combine, because you’d be a good receiver. And he’s like, you know, I’m not doing that. And, you know, so he faced faced doubts. I mean, he’s got a huge chip on his shoulder, even after signing this contract. And so he needs to win, he needs to win. And he knows when he’ll accept that he I think he’s fine with that. Yeah. They gave him the money. Yeah, so it’s really not racial, you know, although the style of play it all sort of is a big glob of doubt. And, you know, maybe there’s a tiny bit in there. You know, about the you know, what, I don’t think in

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:46

your book, you can portray that enough, right, that the theme of this is, there’s always this thing that you’re a black quarterback and that men are different, even today. Today, today, we’re talking about

John Eisenberg  08:56

it’s in play with Lamar, there’s no question about it. And I mean, there’s doubts on any quarterback that’s paid $50 million and hasn’t won a Super Bowl yet. So it’s not racial per se, but it won’t be

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:07

if he beats Justin Herbert this week because he got paid to have that expectation. Same thing she’s got the same name but it wouldn’t Lamar Moreau and the injuries last couple days like he’s been injured as much as Lamar has been injured, but they pick on the more and more I you know, I burr has been in a Super Bowl right? I mean, hertz has been in a Super Bowl now. Right. So there. Cam Newton went to a Super Bowl. Right? So I mean, we’ve got guys go into Super Bowls here. We’ve got black versus black coin. Like I don’t know what point we don’t have to write a book other than a history book about it. Right? But it is still relevant, right? It’s

John Eisenberg  09:40

definitely still relevant. It is changing dramatically. When you see stories like the one that really is getting me is this Josh Dobbs, playing for the Vikings now and the fact that a team traded for him in the middle of the season. I can tell you, I think on year one In the hand, you can count the number of times teams have traded for a black quarterback in the middle of a season and saying, you’re our guy. It just hasn’t happened. It just hasn’t happened. You know, I’m what I’m saying is like, not Lamar, not mahomes just sort of a guy a run of the mill quarterback team. The black quarterback was missing from that equation, no longer with Dobbs. He’s changed teams advanced people want him and he’s playing. He’s doing a good job with his opportunity and it just shows you that colors really gone from that equate J Stroud Cpl. CJ Stroud is the second overall draft pick. What I’m saying is he Dobbs is what a fifth round draft pick is sort of just a guy, just a run of the mill guy or is perceived as such. That’s the thing he’s perceived as such and that’s that is what has relegated all but the top tier black quarterbacks for ever still, you know, almost to this day, however, when you see the run of the mill, Long Shot Tom Brady type guys are starting to play and win who are black that that changes that shows Kurt Warner Yeah, when you start Warren Moon Yeah, because the black guys believe me they didn’t get that opportunity to Kurt Warner got they didn’t get it. So so you know now that Josh Dobbs. Right. So that’s where you really see that color has gone from that equation. And that’s just happening in 2023. So it’s just happening now how you feel about Lamar

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:23

right now John Eisenberg is here. We’re Papist if you’re listening on radio do to Maryland crabcake. Tour and as we sit here, we’re on the eve of Thanksgiving, as we’re recording this playing the Chargers. As we’re recording this Burroughs out, Sean Watson’s out, you want to make fun of Kenny Pickett before we started the film. You Lamar is in a position here, especially with Kansas City losing to Philadelphia. Lamar is in a position here that just one seed by paving the road for an easier landing than anything Billick went through or anything horrible and Flacco ever went through winning on the road and having to go through New England and do all that they have a chance here to make it easy on themselves.

John Eisenberg  12:05

Yeah, I mean, they had, what, four years ago, they had the same thing and just coughed it up, you know, the old hairball on the carpet floor. So, you know, that would be a nice thing to have. There’s no doubt they play really well on the road. So I don’t know. They do need that. What do you what we need to see is consistent play. We need to see these losses, you know, we need to see these leads not cuffed away. I like what I’m seeing from Lamar. I mean he’s certainly better passing the ball than he was his mechanics this new offensive coordinator and I was a Greg Roman I kind of like Greg Roman, I thought he brought a lot of good stuff to the table. But his passing mechanics appear to be better. The options he’s got the passing game is better a lot more guys he can throw to it’s pretty good situation for him. So I like what I’m seeing but you just need to see week in and week out fewer mistakes more consistency. And doing it in January. There’s no question about it. It has to happen for him to take, you know to reach the next level as quarterback. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:05

like that they’re not designing runs for him and that they’re trying keep Mitchell they’re trying to not make him a running back, you know, like, and he’s, you know, always pissing in these postgame press. I’m not running back when you ran the ball 21 times in a game. So you’re being used as a running back far more than was being used as a quarterback, especially when they were playing the magnetic football game back in 2019. And the running game with Mark my grandmom. He definitely throws the ball better. I’m worried about time, I’m worried about protection for him with the tackle situation moving forward. I’m also worried about that. Really, they don’t have that running back. They they don’t have that Mark Ingram. And we talked about the training deadline where whether it would have been a good idea to get Derrick Henry or something.

John Eisenberg  13:49

I don’t see the need for that.

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:51

I thought if they had that sort of that sort of back that would change. Quickly. That

John Eisenberg  13:59

would be great. Though. The running game I think is is fine. I really don’t see problems with the running game there. They make yardage and run Derrick Henry would have been great. I just don’t think you have to do that. I like what I see from the ring. I like Gus Mitchell. I like you know, Justice Hill. I mean, I think I think they’re running games pretty good. I don’t really end it. What are they ranked in the run? And then it’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:18

only gonna be as good as the tackles are at this point. And yeah, and how that holds up. Well, that’s important.

John Eisenberg  14:24

The thing to me, the smartest thing anyone ever told me about Lamar was when I interviewed Greg Roman for this book, okay. And what he told me is Lamar, and he’s a huge Lamar fan and you know, set him loose in 2019. Just like he said Kaepernick loose in San Francisco as young player. And he says it’s time and space. Time and space with Lamar is the key to everything. If you if you give him a little room to operate, and give him a little bit of time, he’s going to he’s going to kill you. He’s going to kill you. If the tackles are aren’t and if it’s rushed a little bit and we’ve seen this over and over Get in here. I just always remember that when I watched the Ravens play, let’s see getting time and a little bit of space to operate, he will carve you up,

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:06

I always look to see when he’s got the ball. Is he looking down the field? Or is he looking the run? Right? I mean, and the looking the run part was something the first three years. It was an instance in Willie Snead, your only guy and Andrews has doubled. And JJ watts or TJ water, you know, any watts, because he’s coming off the edge. His inclination was I can beat this guy, I’m gonna run, you know, he didn’t look that way anymore. And I think that’s a that’s a real concession for him after getting paid after doing it a certain way to not look to run, almost ever. And I see that when they’re behind now. And they’re not behind much third, fourth quarter when they’ve struggled. That is still that comes up. It comes Oh, I have tweeted five times in games that have been in dispute three of them, they lost. It’s still their best play. Their best play is pretending they’re going to throw and have a Lamar run. That’s their best play. Right. And when it’s utilized, you know, as the says a trick play, because you’ve been lulled into, he’s just a quarterback and he’s not going to take off. He won’t take 10 point lead in the second quarter. He’s probably not going to take off now. Were two years ago. He was right. I mean, literally, it’s changed.

John Eisenberg  16:27

I mean, I mean, he is now a passer. He’s been a bet. Will he do it late in the game? I think you’re right. Those instincts sort of take over. And it’s interesting. I mean, he’s evolved from those instincts. One of the most interesting things anyone told me for this book that I wrote, was Ozzy. All right, was going back over why Lamar lasted until 32 In the first round, and this honestly surprised me a little bit because, you know, there’s a lot of revisionist history people saying, Why, oh, why, you know, the marsh had gone a lot higher. As he said in it. I don’t have I mean, I don’t have the book, the court right in front of me. But what he what he says was, he was not very accurate. He was not very accurate as a passer coming out of Louisville. And everybody knew that. And so that is why his stock dropped that I mean, that’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:11

Well, everybody thinks they can make somebody more accurate right, but he was not that that would be Kyle bowler that would be for anyone. And I think when you sit out there and watch these guys do this at a world class level every day as Luke Jones does on our behalf, as you’ve done many times, these guys can throw the ball in a bucket from 40 yards away they can make what they say all the throws right. When you go to Indianapolis, and you can’t do that. It shows that worries Yeah, it shows when you’re watching 20 Other quarterbacks, how accurate is like somebody in a gun range, right? Like how accurate you are there’s there’s no hiding it, you know, the eye in the sky does not lie, they say Right. And that would be through workouts combines. But to me, the other issue that I would delve into with Lamar is you had to change everything. You had to draft different players think differently. Think in a different way, not be as fearful of getting injured as you would want your quarterback to take contact. The Ravens still think about this differently. As we learned last year, I mean, the Deshaun Watson, Lamar comparison year to year, two years ago to one year ago, how many teams wanted them what they’re willing to do. And Lamar, that’s still the case, right? And whether its accuracy or not, it’s I’m not ripping my system up, bringing in wide receivers for to find my running game, given him $50 million and worried about him running into a linebacker, I think. There you go, there you go. 116 months in the marathon, right? Yeah,

John Eisenberg  18:43

yeah. So that’s definitely part of it. And that’s going to exist. And I understand that, to some degree. It fuels the chip that sit on his shoulder, you think he’s not taking names, you know, it’s like, who didn’t want me? It’s like, good, this is what you could have had. So that’s how he operates. That is definitely he didn’t let it he didn’t let on but that is how he operates. So he definitely, he’s an interesting guy, interesting young man, and a sort of a unique guy. And there’s a lot of things I like about him, he doesn’t throw teammates under the bus. I mean, you know, maybe Flacco taught him about that because Flacco certainly never did was very much an adult after games, always. Even if there were teammates who deserved to be thrown under the bus. Flacco wouldn’t throw him under the bus. After a game, Lamar, you don’t see him doing that ever. He’s a good leader and his teammates like him. And so I don’t know, you know, but yeah, you know, he’s a very, very public guy, but yet he’s very private. He’s he’s an interesting dude. And yes, yeah, and he is so but you know what, he got to win a Super Bowl. You gotta win a Super Bowl to get on the cover. Yeah, he’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:48

worn moons on the cover. He’s in the Hall of Fame. So as Patrick mahomes The book is Rocket Man, the black quarterbacks revolutionized pro football, John Eisenberg, my friend, my mentor, longtime Baltimore Sun columnist. And now so What’s your next book?

John Eisenberg  20:00

Don’t have one. Don’t have one he’s made. He’s lying.

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:03

You got some Come on now? No, nothing yet.

John Eisenberg  20:06

Nothing yet. We’ll say you have a seed of an idea. I have a little bit of a seed.

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:11

Thank you know what your next book is gonna be? No, no, I

John Eisenberg  20:13

have some seeds that are that haven’t been planted. I’ll put it this way there, you know in the little jar. You know the seeds? No, I haven’t. We’ve seen

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:22

this memoir thing, John. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, yeah, you’ve witnessed a lot. It’s time to tell the stories.

John Eisenberg  20:28

Listen, my next book might be a novel that for people read. We’ll see. We’ll see. I don’t know cowards

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:34

writing by see he’s got a new book out right. All you all of you alum types. You know, I do that chastened Laura Lippman, right? Yeah,

John Eisenberg  20:42

right. might do that. We’ll see. We’ll say this. This was a, as I say, a heavy lift three years, lots of research and like

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:49

books differently than I do, John.

John Eisenberg  20:51

So I’m going to do something different. I can tell you that it will not be a research intensive 100 year canvas, it will not be that you get Jack

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:01

torn seat. Do you get chippy? When you write you get your Why would your wife say? No,

John Eisenberg  21:06

I think she would say no, not too bad. I mean, it’s sort of relentless. It’s like, when’s it gonna be over? I think more than anything. Yeah, I think more than anything, but no, no, you know, I’ve always been able, listen, I did this on the side for many years, when I was working at other places. So I was able to carpet compartmentalize it relatively well. I look back on it. And you know how I wrote books on the side. I don’t you know, I don’t know, I’m not doing that.

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:35

You got an autographed copy, too. So I want to take a break. I’m gonna come back. CPAP is going to join us. I want to talk about the stadium in the Orioles and just as in just in, in general, because you were chasing her Belgrade around. We’re trying to get a stadium in the stadium authority, trying to get one building built a second building bill, Larry Lucchino nobody knows more about that than us. John is works here. We’re Papist is all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. I still have some 50th anniversary scratch off some given away. I’m fresh out of here. I think I’m out of Raven scratch I actually have a handful. I got like five Raven scratch off so she told me Raven scratch off Regina is where our friends are winter nation. 866 90 nation making it possible. They also do door so I’m gonna talk about that a little bit as well. Let her ask you to Rascon global and our friends at Jiffy Lube. multicam gonna come back to one more second with John Eisenberg. I’m gonna get that chicken Milanese God, it was good. We got turkey leftover turkey. I’ll be at Turkey next week. We’re doing the show Coco’s on Wednesday at gertrudes on Thursday, and then we’ll be able to Hollywood casino on Friday and state fair on the fifth foreign data on December 15 for coming to wise markets up Barry all before the holidays and then we’re gonna be back at fade Lee’s To end the year. I like this crab mallet from letter because I feel like Judge Judy. Judge Walker back for more for Pappas Partho right after this on the Maryland crab cake tour.

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