The legend and lore of Peter G. Angelos

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Angelos BaltimoreMF24
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With the Baltimore Orioles under new ownership and the abrupt end of the Angelos era and the Birds on the field flying high, Thom Loverro of The Washington Times tells true stories of his journalistic encounters with the former owner and discusses the future of Camden Yards and a new day with David Rubenstein.


peter, orioles, baltimore, years, team, bridge, tom, camden yards, nationals, ownership, baseball, washington, people, dc, owner, game, baltimore sun, coming, david rubenstein, angelo


Thom Loverro, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are wn S T A and 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positives and Dundalk strong Baltimore pride and all this amazing stuff in the aftermath of losing the losing the Key Bridge on Tuesday. I’m still getting after and I still haven’t seen it. I haven’t been there yet. I’m wearing my costume shirt, because we are headed there on not just tonight to get some proper Oysters Rockefeller, but we’re gonna be there on April 9 With scratch offs in the mirror, the lottery 10 times the catch all cash also, Pac Man, I’ll have some of those. As I smile a little bit. I haven’t seen the bridge I flew in from Orlando after having Eric to cost and Steve Ashati run for me in the middle of the night at the NFL owners meetings. But after really going down to Fort Myers in Sarasota, seeing this great baseball team and thinking I was coming back and Peter Angelos would be alive. But David Rubenstein would probably still own the team, which just happened about 20 minutes ago on my watch, as we’re recording this segment. And, and the Key Bridge fell. And in the meantime, my friend Tom Lovera is probably a guy I call right around this time anyway because he’s got sort of curve balls in his name, and he’s a baseball guy spent a lot of time here in Baltimore. He is been at the Washington Times a minute, you know, maybe 30 years going on and bowed and inked the column in the aftermath of Peters death that I reached you and said I need to get John to talk about Peter and new ownership and the Orioles and all that stuff. And then the Cambridge thing happens and you could say Tom Lovera a man of many hats but walked out Baltimore Sun reporter Tom Libero and longtime Baltimore resident Tom Libero joins us here from the Washington Times Parts Unknown I’m going to treat you like the executioner’s or, or George Steele, but he was always from Detroit. How are you? Miss you love ya. I don’t have a press pass. I don’t see you. I gotta come down there in Maine. So cigar I don’t do cigars. But I have a you know, I have an old fashion and a steak or something with you, man.

Thom Loverro  02:02

Absolutely, absolutely. It’s a great event. We’ll talk about it in a bit, but I’m feeling great. I’m feeling good. I always had spring training. Also this year for a little while, but obviously, West Palm Beach to see to nationals who are not going to be nearly as exciting as the Orioles. Yeah,

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:21

I guess the worms turned or whatever. I mean, what to make of all of this. I mean, 20 minutes ago, I’m on on the air with Janet Marie Smith. And I get a text from my own company from Luke that the sale has been completed. And Peter’s death and John’s the acrimony last year and poor Westmore getting dragged into this and all of this stuff that’s happened. And now the Key Bridge and opening day and the weather and all of this stuff. But just let’s start with Peter, and his influence on all of this. And the fact that and I’ve said this to many people, and I haven’t said it to you, because I haven’t had you. Usually I have you want to master something stupid John Angelo’s this ad or whatever, Tom. It’s like all over yet. I mean, like, it’s like, I feel people thought I was gonna jump up and down and think on the witches that don’t say, I feel a little cleansed. In some way. I’ve been crying all morning over this Key Bridge thing. And I might do that before you get off of here as well. But this has been a remarkable week in Baltimore, and in Baltimore news. And in the history of Baltimore, real pivot point and 911 in my own parlance, to say things are about to change dramatically here.

Thom Loverro  03:39

Yes, yes, they are. And, I mean, the bridge tragedy is something that, that rips into the, into the body of not just the city. But everybody in and around Baltimore, everybody who’s had a piece of Baltimore, over the years, at some point or another, we’ve all driven over that bridge. And bridges. Bridges are symbols, they’re symbols of a community. It’s more than just transportation. It’s almost like a monument to man’s ability to basically conquered geography. And just like that, it just disappears. And you couple that with with the passing of Peter angelos, who was an influential and controversial figure in this area for years, and the anticipation of new ownership, finally taking over major league baseball proving it today. It’s, it’s it’s so many feelings going in different directions. And I’m curious about what’s going to happen on opening day on Thursday. If there is an opening day Thursday because the weather report It’s not, it’s not good. And meanwhile Friday they’re off day. The weather looks happy, because

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:11


science first first is to bang the game. I’m okay with that.

Thom Loverro  05:18

Well, I’ll be curious what they do because I didn’t I got baseball might hold off on. I thought baseball before Peter died. I thought baseball was going to prove it before opening day because I thought they would like to do a scenario like Edward Bennett Williams did in 1988 when they signed a new 30 year lease, you know, in his offices in Washington, took the train up to Baltimore for a game that night just that just happened to be fan appreciation night for the Orioles that night. And they wanted to make a big deal of unveiling the new 30 year lease to you know, for the future home of their team at Camden Yards. And they wanted to do it on fan appreciation. I think they’d want to do the same thing to 4 million announced the ownership of David Rubenstein and the Orioles on opening day. Then after Peter died, I thought well, it’s going to be a very, very subdued day. It’s going to be a Peter Remembrance Day. Not a celebration of new ownership. So I’ll be real curious how they handle this.

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:37

Tom Lovera was our guest. Tom, I will tell you fantastic fans night was a night I was at the ballpark. There were 52,000 people in Memorial Stadium that night. I literally remember where I was standing. I was standing about Section seven, Section Eight, I was down the left field line like shagging foul balls during batting practice. When I looked up on the scoreboard, and you know, the video Tron and all that stuff, there literally was just a an announcement on the scoreboard that a new stadium will be erected in downtown Baltimore, you know, like, and the team had just lost all the games and you know, Billy Pipkins on the you know, holding the bat on Sports Illustrated and, you know, cows gotten fired and Frank Robinson is running. I mean, it just it was a mess. And it was this shining light. And now we have Camden Yards, $600 million for it and owner all of these things. And the bridge, the bridge incident happens here and, um, you almost made me cry in your eloquence in regard to symbolism. And I brought this up with Janet Marie. I had John Hagee on the show when I did cup of Super Bowl last month from the y and the y’s located on the 33rd Street place and I since then, I had Rick Emmett the guitar player from triumph, whose brother passed away and requested that his ashes be scattered at shortstop because he loved Cal Ripken that much. Like literally literally and I told him if you still have smashes I might be able to make that happen for you. But I could not drive Montebello up at the park and earring run down the hill. I avoided Bellaire road Harford road. Everything south of Coco’s everything around Montebello. I never came down the Alameda because that would have killed me. And Loch Raven. And I like it bothered me that the lights were gone. It bothered me that the stanchions weren’t there through the trees when you you hit the bottom of the hill coming up. I tell you and Montebello around that corner and the church up on the school and, and City College and Eastern and all of that stuff that was there physically in my childhood. It took me 10 years. Like it took me it took me 10 years to dry by once it was gone the arts. I didn’t go down 33rd Street, so I don’t have that luxury and I you know, I grew up Colgate. You could see the bridge from my house. I lived on King Street you could see the bridge from my bedroom literally at the top of the hill on King Street, where the Home Depot sits right now. And there was no place high in Holland town where you couldn’t see it and out the window at Chaucer and like this is going to crush us Tom i mean i I’m going to cost this tonight. I’m going to sit there and probably sob a little bit. I mean my dad worked underneath of the construction of that all during the 70s I remember my uncle Norman picking me up taking me to the white coffee pot Jr. The day it was open he took me over the bridge for the first time. You know when things like that do go away and sports teams I get that. That probably is our our connection to the building and I think Joe ermine in a in a piece with NFL films. When he went to Memorial Stadium. He told Steve sable it’s the theology of a space

Thom Loverro  09:56

Yeah, yeah, you know, we’re gonna be we’re gonna be Be reminded of it every day for years, until that bridge is complete because a replacement bridge is completed because building a bridge is a slow, very visible process. I grew up in Brooklyn. And I remember I used to visit the Brooklyn waterfront, as a kid, and watch them literally build the Verrazano Bridge. And, you know, you see a little bit of a bridge and a little bit more, and then a little bit more. So it’s a daily reminder of it will be a daily reminder of the pain, and will also be a daily reminder of the hope towards replacing it. But it’ll be a slow process. This is going to stick in people’s guts for a long time.


Nestor J. Aparicio  10:51

And sports teams are the ones that come together. You mentioned New York and the Yankees, you know, after 911 and people coming through sports to commune in some way. And you mentioned that bridge, dude, you were reciting the lines from lines in Saturday Night Fever, right? Like there’s a scene in Saturday Night Fever recess. I saw that bridge get built, right literally. Yeah.

Thom Loverro  11:15

Yeah. Yeah. John Travolta talks about Verizon, no bridge. So, you know, bridges have always been important to me. I’ve always been fascinated with them. And this one’s this one is gonna get replaced. But there’s a lot of damage. That was not not not to mention the lives that were lost on the bridge. There’s a lot of emotional and financial damage. It may take $3 billion to replace that bridge.

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:50

How long did it did you work at the Baltimore Sun? Tom? And what roles did you have there? Because I’m I’m asking out of curiosity, I’d asked you that. And cigars and curveballs because I really don’t know the answer to that. I knew you knew me as a kid when I walked in there in 1986. And I got a documentary coming out this year on our 25th anniversary and all the cool stuff that I’ve done in my life that I want to share with people that don’t know and haven’t known me since I was a kid. Like some people like you. I wasn’t even aware of you. I was aware of your byline. But I didn’t really know. You know, you were feel like I knew you when Dick Irwin was in the newsroom late at night or David Simon or are Raphael, you know?

Thom Loverro  12:27


Yeah, I worked at the Baltimore Sun from 1984 to 1992. And for six of those years, I was the editor of the Howard County zoned edition. So I wasn’t in the newsroom much for the first six years sometimes, you know, maybe once a week, twice a week, but not every day.

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:47

Who were the sports writers for the Howard County zone at that time, because like Roch kubatko came from Anna Rundle County. I know Yes, he did. Yeah, it’s but who I’m trying to think of who they were just because I’m sure I knew them. Because I covered high school sports, I would always trip rocket and Rundle County. And you know, Kathy Fraser and Sam, Dave, I mean, all these people Kevin EQ was a part of that Jamison Hensley covered high schools, I believe, early on little after me. But like all of that period of time, those zones additions were an amazing part of the Baltimore suns outreach to try to be a neighborhood newspaper, not to necessarily put the Dundalk Eagle the organic times out of business, but to at least play and say, we’re a Baltimore entity.

Thom Loverro  13:31

Yeah. Rick Bells was one of the sports writers out in Howard County, Gary Lamprecht. Oh, carry horse, of course, was was one of the sports writers, Sean Smallwood, the late John Smallwood, who went on to write as a columnist for The Philly Daily News. Legend was one of my sports writers. Yeah, there as well. And it was a community newspaper, and it was a lot of fun doing it. And then the last two years, I was there, I was a reporter on the State Bureau, covering Western Maryland. So I was between Frederick and downtown, covering Western Maryland issues and stuff like that. And I didn’t really get to know you, until I became a sports writer with the times in 92, after I left the sun, and then we go and then went to Camden Yards. And I think I got to know you there. Well, I didn’t. I seen you in a newsroom. You know, when I was at the Baltimore Sun, but we didn’t know each other. Well,

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:32

it’s, you know, I think of you in a lot of ways, but I forget. It’s been 30 years, Tom, right. I mean with Peter. So let’s get on to Peter here and talk about that because, you know, I shared your sentiments on Saturday because I was at a pool in Tampa after three days in Sarasota Fort Myers, Sarasota. I was told by an upper level management person with the Orioles that I said I want my press Aspect man, you know, when the new ownership comes in, what’s the methodology that my Caucasian employee can be sitting in the press box again for the 18th year, and I’m not credential for a company I own it doesn’t you know, like, I want to change that you my last name is Aparicio. I love baseball. He said wait a week just give it a week he’s what he said just give it a week which meant there’ll be a new owner by opening day and that was his code word for me that there’s your breaking news we’ll have a new you know we’ll do what exactly what you said they were going to do exactly what they’ve done approved the ownership on the day before the day so that an opening day they can have that Peter’s death was nothing predictable or nothing yeah plan at all. And I I said this to many people, Tom they have in all the years since you’ve known me Johnny Oates in the early part of the time Peter bought the team and the Rick Fonz left why talk to you last week he was down to Dallas bar in Florida. When that period happened I had Jana Murray on She lasted about a year and left literally Keno went to San Diego during that period of time since that time, I cannot remember anyone maybe John maroon after John Rula ever being nice to me with the Orioles Bill stack it tries because he loves me and we were college, but like you got fired. If you were too nice to Nestor. You know, like everybody cut me off on the LinkedIn level, the Facebook Live, like I had people that were at my wedding that’s had to stop speaking to me, because Peter hated me that much. And the family hated me that much. And I think about all of this 30 year period, and I never really had thought about him dying. Like I know it’s inevitable. We’re all you know, to fate we’re all gonna have I just never thought like it felt eternal. And when John was kicking and grabbing last year, and I’m having you on and he’s making stuff up as he goes along, I thought this might linger another five years. You know what I mean? Like the whole thing might linger a lot longer. There might be more lawyers, more lawyers, more fights, more family more, more awfulness, and I just never saw an end of it. I compare it to Cuba, I compare it to Fidel runs the place, it’s never changing. It’s, it’s not possible, like Putin and Russia like it’s never going to change. And here we are, and how do you know what to do about it? Now the bridge is fallen, and I’m a mess. And Peters dies, and I’m at the pool in Tampa. And people wanted me to like run around like dingdong the witch is dead or something. And I just decided, like, I wrote a book about everything he ever did go read it judging for yourself, but it’s all true. And then four hours later, I’m out of the pool, I’m dried off, I’m at an air supply concert. And I’m reading that he never punched down. And I’m reading that he saved baseball for the city. I even read someone say that he brought baseball to Baltimore. Like I mean, it got real slippery. And then I saw you who was there at the beginning of all of it. And you know, Johnny Oates and all of that stuff, who sort of wrote nothing mean nothing weird. He didn’t hate you. He liked you for a long time, right? And you wrote the truth. And I shared it. And it got crazy. And I said, I want to have you on. But I forgot how close you were to the fire. I really did. And I want to give you a little oxygen on that. Because you have fun tales of Peter in some sort of weird way. 30 years later, and they may now that we have a new owner may make a shuffle a little bit, honestly. Right.


Thom Loverro  18:23

Yeah. You know, there was a lot of revisionist history that came out, I was surprised out a lot. Baltimore media was so ready to sing his praises for saving baseball, which he did nothing of the sort. You know, what they’ve done is they’ve taken this notion that Peter used himself to promote himself that since he was a Baltimore natives, the ownership of the team would finally be back in the hands of people from Baltimore. Okay, but but the team, but you know, I mean, in most cities, the people who own the team are not from that city. He

Nestor J. Aparicio  19:13

you know, what, Tom in the end, and I, you know, I don’t want to speak badly, but this is the truth. He preyed on the provincial reality of Yes, or say leaving, that’s literally what he did. He used that the way Trump uses all sorts of weird things as sort of an error. It was a thing like in a court case that he could come in with it may or may not be true, but I’m gonna say it and you can’t prove you know, and boom and that I’m local, I’m local and and local is always better. Local is not better. I build the way it would have been a billion times better as history. Born out with Larry Lucchino it built a wait Larry the Kino own this team. People would have been eaten boots barbecue on Christmas down the last 30 years and they might have won four or five pennants because they had some excess in the 90s and some abilities with the market to probably keep the Nationals out of DC, if the Nationals probably never would have happened, if really good ownership would have happened here.

Thom Loverro  20:08

I wouldn’t go that far to nationals were inevitable. Really?

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:10


You believe that? It evitable. Why?

Thom Loverro  20:16

Because the market is it’s just too big. You know, there was too much money to be made that the Orioles weren’t making it in Washington in Northern Virginia, contrary to their popular statements, and I’ve had two people who work for the team tell me this, their figures were all false. In terms of the market they got from DC, and Northern Virginia, it was much less than they claimed they had. Okay, so a lot of that was five in

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:47

real life now. 92 and 93. George Will was there and Larry King was there. It was a lot of DC money, the first 10 years when the skybox has dried up, and Peter wrecked the team by oh one. It was less. I mean, I think at one point 9394 95 Cal Ripken era when he’s doing 2131 All Star game, Davey Johnson era when they’re great. I do believe it might have been 20 25% at that time, because I looked in the parking lot. Virginia play

Thom Loverro  21:16

it was never 20 25% Never.

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:19

Okay. Now,

Thom Loverro  21:22

to be honest with you, as much as I’d love with Larry with here. They’re the ones that started the notion that there was this large market, like supporting the team from Washington, and that the people who work for the team who told me that was, I was made up, you know, I was made up it was closer to 10%, more than 20 to 25% of the market. So I think nationals coming were inevitable. here’s the here’s the thing that I’ve learned years later, when packtm Like was general manager, he suggested to Peter, he may have been the one who planted this idea. And Peter said in the first place. He suggested the Peter, that because he knew it was inevitable, that why not welcome the Expos move into Washington and become partners with them in all sorts of business, television marketing, everything you do instead of fighting them, embracing them, because there inevitably there’s going to be a team there he fell. And then why not have some kind of partnership that is beneficial for for Baltimore and the team and, you know, stops the idea of fighting. This team coming to Washington. Now I don’t think he had the one sided massive deal in mind. I think he had more of a cooperative agreement in mind and not the massive deal. But Peter may have gotten the idea of Masson, from Pat Gillick, who, who floated the notion of him the idea of welcoming a team of becoming partners with them.

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:02

I would say we, Peter, in regard to that point, though, for media money and the team. And I wrote in the Peter principles and I believe this to be true because it was said to me by top level people, Peter hated the concept of a Washington baseball team, like the fact that that it was over his dead body that this was gonna happen literally like he’d never there was there was no keeping him whole. He sought to be a taker in the deal because he felt betrayed. I mean, literally the I don’t think that was made up or performative. I think he thought we are Washington’s team. And in his mind for whatever, you know, he had thought a lot of things he thought things about me that weren’t true. But But I would say that he hated the concept that Washington would have a team because he would be competing with them, like literally competing with creating a competitor.

Thom Loverro  24:00

Is you know, the ironic thing is bigger competitor, where the ravens, not the Nationals, you want to look at the demise of the Orioles, financial way. You pointed the idea that for you for what 12 years there was no football team in the city and for a lot for for about six of those 12 years. Camden Yards was being filled up. And the Orioles were winning. And and then when the Ravens catered down, there’s a new stadium right next door. And people in Baltimore have to make the decision as to where they’re going to spend their money because there’s not enough money season ticket wise to do both for most people in that city. The Ravens had a much bigger negative impact on the Orioles and the national state.

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:50

Oh and I would say at this point.

Thom Loverro  24:52

Sponsorship wise, attendance wise, certainly season ticket pace wise.

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:58

Well, the NFL Such a monster at this point I just left the owners meetings where Steve shoddy and Eric Decosta can be really proud of the way they ran for me in the middle of the night on Sunday night at the Ritz Carlton in and grand lakes Orlando, but the Ravens have had ticket problems and they begged me to buy my own tickets back the Jets deal threw me out of a couple years ago. And there 10,000 empty seats most weeks and tickets are $10, sometimes online before games. And you know, the first playoff game was the lowest price of all of the playoff games that were held last year, Baltimore had the worst price the lowest get in cost to lowest demand literally the lowest demand was for the ravens, a Texans game and cold night bla bla bla bla bla, but are you know, I remember cold never bothered us when Ray Lewis was shaking his ass around here and price fathers would look so so the interest is down on the football team here locally in that way of I want to go to the game. Now it’s crime. It’s Fox 45 It’s blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? The baseball team has this incredible lane and opportunity right now with new ownership and this really good team on the field to immediately do things differently. I don’t know what that means. I’ve been sitting here for 90 days. I was gonna call you in February and I figured I’d wait and say alright, owner Tom libero, you know, you, consultant to David and is it Rubenstein or Rubenstein? I really don’t know. And I don’t want to get it wrong. It’s Rubinstein. Okay, well, here we go. I don’t know for sure. Okay. So if you’re the assistant and he comes to you, and it’s not like an oral owner, whatever, curry favor with you and sit around and ask you what you think about things. I read your column last week. So this is your opening on that. There’s your segue that make people laugh a little bit. But if David Rubenstein, David Rubenstein, I want to get it right comes to you and says, Tom, I hear you new things around here. And Peter, once trusted, you come in and have lunch with me. Tell me what you think could resurrect the Orioles above and beyond 103 wins in a World Series this year? What what could be done better? I? I mean, I’m making a list and checking it twice like Santa Claus. I mean, I feel like there’s a billion ways this could go. I hope it really goes well.


Thom Loverro  27:15

I think they don’t go well. I mean, you know, Mike Elias, the general manager has built, you know, it was a painful bill. But it was a successful build. And they have so much young talent that their best player for whatever reasons you want to make the case for is still down in the minor leagues, Jackson Holliday. He’ll be helped. sure he’ll be attending yard sometime this year. But as far as you know, offering advice, it’s almost like the same thing in Washington, when Dan Schneider sold the franchise. Finally, something that never people never thought would happen. And the only marching orders really accounted for the new owners was don’t be Dan Snyder. So I would say to the new owner, David Rubenstein, don’t be Peter angelos, you know, to don’t do what he would do. That’s the one simplest way to be able to build up what what they’ve got. And I think He’s sharpened up and in his nature. Probably the kind of guy not to do what Peter Angelos would have done in a lot of situations. Okay, but he’s got Cal Ripken in his ownership group. Cow, cow Tao would have worked for the Orioles a number of times Peter would not hire him because he was afraid that if if for some reason cow had success, then cow would get the credit and up here.

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:53

Yeah, I mean, I could sit here all day on the Peter thing and I’m wondering where the end of that is. And Tom l’affaire is our guests in the Washington Times longtime Baltimore Sun longtime Oriole insider and, and wrote some very strange behavior. Peter years ago with you late at night schmucks got stories. Flanagan told me a million stories before we lost Mike years ago, you know about all of the late night things with Peter and things that were sad and crazy. You know, by the way, I love the advance like I was gonna text you that I love the advanced like I hate you so much strata Matic team. You got to tell that story. You got to tell a couple of these Peter stories and then we can move on to Rubenstein.

Thom Loverro  29:39

Okay, I wrote my column about how Peter here in the early days before when when everyone loved Peter, he loves reporters. The ice muster spoke to him, maybe sometimes three, maybe four times a week. And I wasn’t the only one. He talked to schmuck. He talked to maski The Washington Post. He loved talking to reporters. And the press back then was a positive thing for Peter in the early days of ownership, but then

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:11


Stedman ate him. I like I read Stemmons work when I wrote the freedom. She had Stedman hoodwinked, he adds Stedman wrap. I mean, I love nobody loves John more than me. I love John Steadman. I’m doing this documentary on my 25 years and I found him saying some amazingly beautiful things to me about my report Torial skills on the air as a kid I was 23 years old. He said these beautiful things to me, but he was really wrong on Peter and and Peter. Peter had Peter bamboozle John, like literally, and and was looking to bamboozle all of you and have you all think he was a bright guy and his kids really weren’t, like, credible to make baseball decisions. And like I was in the office when Johnny Oates lost his mind when you talked about Johnny oats like the owners coming down here telling you to play third base. I was there for that all thing. Yeah.

Thom Loverro  31:02

Yeah. Well, that’s the one thing was Peter would tell you what was going on. I mean, and he talked for hours sometimes. But sometimes he’d wants something from you. Sometimes he’d want to ask your opinion, which is that really uncomfortable position for a beat writer, and I was the beat writer at the time, copper the team for the times to be in. But that was the price. If you wanted to have a relationship with Peter and keep getting information. When he asked you your opinion, you had to offer it. So it was the winter of 95. But they they weren’t bringing it back Mike Devereaux. They, they needed. They needed to centerfielder and Curtis Goodwin was their centerfield prospect. But he was just that class A Frederick. It wasn’t ready yet. So Peter said, What should I do about centerfield Who should I get to play centerfield? So I said to him, I said, Look, any Van Slyke just had two entry filled years with the pirates. He needs a big comeback year in order to get a contract. So he’s going to be available for a cheap one year deal for you to pick up take a chance on him. If he plays well, you know, you’ll look good, it won’t cost you a lot of money. And it’ll give you time until Goodwin develops. Well two days later they signed Andy Van Slyke Oh, and I’m trying

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:36

to look at stats up see how you did all in here that year. There’s no one good Oh, he got 68 at bats at 10 minutes he had a buck 59 You suck Libero your let me tell you that buddy. That

Thom Loverro  32:53

was my stead that’s the general manager wasn’t very good.


Nestor J. Aparicio  32:58

Tom Lovera was here he wrote tales true tails are the Peter principles. And we’ve talked about the Key Bridge and the demise of that and the hopes of all of this um, you I don’t where do you live? You live in the corridor? Correct? Actually, I

Thom Loverro  33:12

live in Frederick these days up in the front corridor at the foot of Western Maryland.

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:17

You know, I love Frederick and Frederick’s very underrated when my crabcakes were happened. My wife and I fell in love with downtown Frederick we we talk about when that little concert facility has the right cover band or whatever. We’re gonna go drink some beer in downtown Frederick and do it up, right because we like it a lot, actually. So going to games for you and getting out going to DC or going to Baltimore. You said you just came back from Florida, you’re sort of embedded with the Nationals in that way. What can the Orioles do to make the guy you know, crusty old curmudgeon baseball expert? Like you? You know, be a little more involved or come in a little bit more. And, you know, people said to me, okay, they give you a press pass back. Right? Right. And maybe that might be happening. By the end of the day, John Moran might call and say cows running the place you’re in. Come come to the game tomorrow. Here’s your parking pass, right like whatever right? And I don’t have any expectation anything I don’t deserve. I’ve earned I’ve earned the right to cover the baseball team in more than anybody’s show me anybody else that’s ever earned the right I’m making a documentary to show you that. But so if they invite me back, how often will I go? You know, like, Luke is even hitting me this week. We’ve been crashing together for a week watching baseball. Hey, let you back in next week. Are you coming Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and I lived downtown for 19 years. I never felt welcome. I guess when I talked about the Castro’s Cuba thing. Like every time, Greg Bader ever looked at me TJ Brightman, they threw they tried to have me thrown out in Arlington. In October. They threw Luke out of their locker room. They refused to give him a clubhouse badge until John Blake until I sent 15 emails to Major League Baseball. That’s my last experience with the Angelo Family. So I have not had a good experience at all. If I ever walked in there and somebody said, Welcome to Camden Yards. Let me show you around. Hey, I hear your name’s Nestor. I hear you’re related to like, I’ve never had anybody be nice to me ever. So I don’t even know what it’s like. I mean, I literally have, I have been so abused by everybody there for so long. I don’t know what that’s like. So I would just say, I don’t know. But if they gave me a press pass, I would go back more often. If I if I had a good time I go back even more often. And if people were nice to me, I go back even more often. I I guess it’s like any restaurant you would go to? What would make you come back a little bit more because you’ve drifted from it when you love baseball. And I know deep down you want the Orioles to do well?

Thom Loverro  35:41


Well, I mean, that’s next year. That’s not true. I don’t particularly care if the Orioles do well. Now, or if the Nationals do well, they’re not that my teams, I don’t root for them. Okay, I just write about them. When their teams are good, like the oils are going to be good. They’re a better story. And that will result in more trips to Camden Yards than I’ve normally done. The only time I’ve been to Camden Yards in the past five years has been when the Nationals went to play up there. Because we covered in that were Washington newspaper, we covered the Nationals. Or else when somebody I wanted to see from a visiting team was coming to town whether it’s dusty Baker with the Houston Astros are maniacs. With the Seattle Mariners, I plan on making a quite a few more trips to Camden Yards. There’s because that’s a good story. It’s going to be a story. And it’s going to attract more media. Because it’s going to be a story all year, especially with the new ownership. Why? Yeah, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:51

think the greater good I didn’t even mean to intimate your fandom or your lack of clarity as a journalist, but just it lifts Baltimore, you know, I mean, all of it lifts lifts our community, which is what it’s designed to do, and why we just gave them you gave him $600 million. You gave the Ravens 600 million. Like we’re all in on this thing that you know, that I just got run from by a billionaire at the pool was a journalist pisses me off, but it’s not like I want the ravens to fall in, you know, like I it would not be good. It’s not good when these things go bad, right, like, down I bought a condo, you know, like, so there’s part of that, that this is going to be a good thing for our community, I hope I believe. Yeah,

Thom Loverro  37:33

but my philosophy is I read for me, whatever works best for me. Okay, that’s what I wrote for I like that. Yeah, I like that. Okay, but I think they’re gonna be I think they’re gonna be a very exciting, fun team to watch. And there’ll be maybe a lot of new surprises with a new ownership that we haven’t seen in a long time. So I mean, Camden Yards, not nationals. Park is going to be the place to be this summer. And the nationals have on the horizon has some good young talent coming, but they’ve got an ownership that that is, is not quite the Angelo’s ownership, but certainly not an ownership that that’s, that’s going to wind up drawing people to the ballpark down in Washington.

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:19

Rubenstein, I had a little summit on Tuesday night here in Baltimore for 50 people. And the massive thing made the news, right, like he wants mass and peace working out on business. That’s a thing that every time I’ve ever had you on any of the Washington people on, even in the years when the nationals are crushing it with Strasburg and Harper and all those guys and winning championships, I would say that the Masson thing has been such a drag on the franchise. And as awful as the Angeles thing was for Baltimore people that it for what it did for the nationals and how it screwed up broadcast and all of that, that there will be a brighter day for Washington because of this sale to correct.


Thom Loverro  38:58

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is this is an opportunity for Major League Baseball Rob Manfred to get rid of that. I don’t know how they do it. And even Rubenstein said he doesn’t know how it’s gonna happen the other night, but he said that they’re smart people should be able to figure out a way to fix this issue that that that makes that feels everyone’s not getting hurt by it. Okay, Peter, you know that it was Peters idea to crush the other guy in a courtroom. It’s funny because you had two people, not only Peter, but Ted Lerner. Both sides would have rather paid lawyers then figure out a way to fix this problem. So that’d be that’s what got in the way a massive it wasn’t just Peter and we it was the Lerner family to or who are notorious for being very difficult to negotiate with on paper clips, let alone a television rights So I think that’s a hope for a lot of people is that magic gets fixed in a way that doesn’t hurt anybody. I think Orioles fans are rightfully thinking, well, it’s going to, it’s going to hurt our revenue stream. It’s going to be up to David Rubenstein to figure out a way how not to do that.

Nestor J. Aparicio  40:18

Well, Ted leonsis is going to be into the TV part of this. He’s into the Virginia government. He’s out of the DC government he’s in he’s out the basketball team is a disgrace. The hockey team is about to lose a legend. And you know, and they’re playing good hockey right now God bless them. But But all that being said them in the commander’s are trying to figure out new branding and new sort of everything. I saw some of their people down at the owners meetings, they were nicer to me than the Ravens people were, which is really weird to write, like, probably weird walking into the commanders thing. And for anybody that dealt with Dan and saying, I didn’t know there could be an end to all of this. There is. But there’s also the fact that like Baltimore had an AFC Championship game here. And they have a baseball team that won 101 games and is expected to sort of do the same thing. And but it feels like the, the tectonic plates have shifted a little bit from Ovechkin and Bryce Harper. And like all that there is a little balancing act going on here. And leonsis is into this as much as anybody if DC is going to be resurrected in a sports way. He’s going to be a huge part of this. Right? I mean, he could have been the owner of the Orioles through all of this, maybe not but but he seeks to be even more powerful, more influential. And of course, you know, more humble and always, as you point out, always accessible. Ted?

Thom Loverro  41:39

Yes, yes. But he’s case he’s, he’s laid out a blueprint about how not to seek a new, a new arena. You know, it’s funny, because Josh Harris, the new commanders owner, told reporters down in Orlando, that they’re watching the wizards capitals arena thing closely. And they hope to learn from it. But they hope to learn from it is not to make the same mistakes that Ted has, you know, he’s got to come back crawling back, it looks like to the district with his tail between his legs. And the district is still willing to probably give him $600 million to fix up Capital One arena, which is bad news for the Washington commanders because for the commander’s, it was good news to have the wizards and the capitals leaving for Arlington, which meant that the district would be under more pressure than ever, to try to get the commanders tried to build a football stadium that get the commanders to come back to DC. Now, that’s back in limbo. And ironically, I’ve never changed my position on this. I think the commanders are going to wind up with their new stadium right next to their old stadium, right in Maryland, just on the other side of the new state of the old stadium a little bit closer to the Morgan station metro stop. I think that’s where the new seems new stadium is going to wind up. Most people want it to be on the RFK site. And there’s gonna be a lot of pressure for that. But if Ted winds up staying in a district and taking the district’s movie that’s been cut into the commanders piece of the pie.

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:27


What do you make of like going to owners meetings and owners don’t meet with media and don’t talk anymore. And we’re just way, way, way past the point of, I mean, Rubenstein is trying to come in here this week and get known and get people comfortable with it being different and all that there’s such an arrogance about all of this. I mean, Ted Leone’s is stands up at a press conference, it says hold me accountable and walks out the side door. And it’s astonishing, really, and you call them transparent 10 I’m sorry about that. He lied to me repeatedly, Tom. And that’s when I was done. I mean, he told me when they won the Stanley Cup, I have it on tape 10 times. He told me that when they won the Stanley Cup, he would parade the Stanley Cup to Baltimore, because Baltimore it supported the team for 50 years, he won the Stanley Cup, he snuck it in the side door dented Under Armours bar, took it over with a picture with the Oriole bird, and it was never heard from here. And it just I don’t like people that lie to me, no matter how much money they have, no matter what their background is. Because I don’t lie to other people. And I just find these people to be I never felt this way before. You know, I like I felt good for their excess and their billions and they work hard and you know, unless they they’re born a third think they had a triple like John Angelo’s a lot of these self made guys and you not to be grudge Gera his money, you know, or any any begrudge Dan Snyder’s money to have what he did, but there is a point where there’s a there’s a real lack of respect and decency for procurements, right.

Thom Loverro  44:57

Yeah. Yes, it is a and their initial press conference over in Virginia to announce the move was really tone deaf. That that there were going to be victims left behind by this move, and it really, it really rubbed people the wrong way and particularly walking off the stage and I’d taken any questions from anybody about it. Since then, he’s he’s, he’s basically been really on the ropes. With with with this Virginia over deal. He has one last hope that somehow the state legislature a democratic state legislature will turn around when they come back for their brief mid April meeting. And turn around and in a deal with with the Republican governor agree to this arena right now. But right now, the arenas in the arena and Potomac yards, has become a toxic issue. And politicians are running away from it.

Nestor J. Aparicio  46:00

Well, and and, you know, again, we’ve seen this with Angelo’s here and, you know, Bashaud he’s already got the plans for his stadium, we’re gonna see what Rubinstein does with the money with the Orioles here, but the money sitting there, they you know, they don’t have to fight for it anymore. They don’t even have to threaten it. Just the money just comes and from talking to a bunch of reporters that at the NFL owners meetings, that’s, you know, it’s sort of expected it’s the way every government’s doing it. Except California, you know, they didn’t they don’t wanna play that after that the pharaohs here, he stayed in Washington covering all things Washington, sometimes Baltimore for The Washington Times, he worked at the Baltimore Sun years ago and reminisced of his time to Camden Yards with Peter Angelos. And, and if you didn’t like Andy Vance lakes campaign back in 94, it’s all it’s Tom’s fault, Tom, I love you. I appreciate we’re not in the same room together as much as I’d like. And obviously, when we put this thing together, you know, Peters death and the Key Bridge and all of the craziness that’s become this. I really appreciate you at least taking my mind off of for a couple minutes. Before I get down to cost this and have myself a good cry tonight. But I owe you crabcake Brother, tell me about curveballs, cigars, all this cool stuff you’re doing in May?

Thom Loverro  47:07

Well, I’m on the board of directors of the DC grace, which is a nonprofit organization that creates baseball opportunities in inner city DC. In the poorest parts of the city Ward seven and eight. We have a college team that plays in the Cal Ripken summer Collegiate Baseball League. That’s really devoted to having minority players on the team. But more importantly, we now run what’s what has been known as the RBI program in baseball in the district. We have more than 200 boys and girls who play baseball and softball as part of our program where we supply bats, gloves. Eek all the equipment, uniforms, coaches, to schedule, they don’t pay for any of it. We do it all and it’s all through volunteer fundraise. And then the cigars and curveballs event at Shelley’s back room on Monday night may 6 is one of our fundraisers. You can go to DC To buy a ticket for $100. You get three cigars, appetizers, there’s a great live auction of of sports memorabilia. A couple years ago, we auctioned off a DC Grace jersey that was signed by every member of the 2019 World Series nationals team. So it’s a great event. Mike Bristow has showed up the general manager of the Nationals Dave Martinez has been there. Rick doc Walker, former Redskins player has been there. My podcast partner Kevin, Shane is always there. So it’s a great event, you go to DC And you can find out more. And you can find out more by follow me on Twitter, Facebook. I’m all over social media. All


Nestor J. Aparicio  49:05

right, well, I got DC Grace up here right now and you can always follow Tom Lovera he wrote a great, great piece on Peter Angelo says legacy over the weekend, I shared it on my Facebook and it’s great to visit with you. I’ll take care we’ll have a crab cake soon. And I keep up the great work with kids. I I told a story I’ll leave you with this. I went to game at Fort Myers last week. Red Sox play in New Orleans and you know, I have a ticket. I don’t say I’m bored but it’s an X you know it’s a it’s late grapefruit the orals in in Brigantine are pitching with them right. So understand they’re walking around seeing this marvel of JetBlue Park and the fake jet you know of a green monster and looking at pretty girls eating clam chowder and walking around a little bit. And I walked through and I saw a family of five darker skinned folks. They might have been of Cuban descent or Dominican. They may have been related the players I’m not sure. But either way I saw and it was like a family in this environment. They were the only dark skinned Folks I had seen and I said, I’m gonna walk around the ballpark and see, I’m just gonna look and see how many people that are overtly African American or Dominican or when I walked through that ballpark, and I counted nine people, at a 5000 people in the ballpark, I counted nine people that were of color, you know, obviously, of color. And I thought, I know it’s spring training, and it’s a little older down here, and it’s trumped up. It was Yeah, trumped up it was a tom. Ron DeSantis was at the game, waving everybody. Yeah, I got a selfie with DeSantis. Um, I look very frustrated in that when I look pained, actually, but you know, it is it’s a real problem. You know, in my city, especially if the orals are going to be revived here. It needs to involve everyone, not just someone, right? Like, and I think part of this begins what you’re doing. And the great work you do with the grazers is getting kids involved. And I think it’s a beautiful thing.

Thom Loverro  51:00

Yeah, because I tell you what, before the Nationals came to town, Little League Baseball and youth baseball was pretty much dormant in this city. And one thing that nationals have done their presence now because anything like that, that the owners have done, but just the presence of a major league baseball team. Race interest, so we kind of took the ball and ran with it from there.

Nestor J. Aparicio  51:23

And then they won a World Series to which, you know, wake awakens, folks, which we hope we can have that I mean that there’ll be nothing that would awaken everybody in our community more than them winning a lot and, and being inclusive and being inclusive. And that’s, that’s where I go with that including the Hispanic reporter that’s been boxed out by the former ownership. I hope that changes. Tom, I appreciate you. I love you. Thanks for keeping up keep up the good work, cigars, curveballs, all that good stuff. Go find Tom Libero out at the Washington Times. I am Nestor. We are wn St. am 1570, Towson Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore. Positive

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