Wanna help us spend hundreds of millions of David Rubenstein’s money on Orioles players?

The delicious pizza at Pizza John’s brings all of our friends together to talk baseball in Essex. Our MLB insider Luke Jones and legendary sports cartoonist Ricig join Nestor on the Maryland Crab Cake Tour to take a deep dive on the everything Baltimore Orioles offseason. From the leadership of Mike Elias and the hiring of Craig Albernaz to the expectations of spending hundreds of millions of David Rubenstein and Michael Arougheti’s money before Valentine’s Day, it’s always baseball season here.

Nestor J. Aparicio, Mike Ricigliano, and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ offseason hopes and the potential for a World Series run led by players like Gunnar Henderson, Adley Rutschman, and Grayson Rodriguez. They highlighted the need for bold moves, including significant investments in pitching and outfield depth. They compared the Orioles’ situation to Toronto’s recent success, emphasizing the importance of winning consistently to boost attendance and revenue. Concerns were raised about the team’s financial stability, the impact of the upcoming lockout, and the necessity of engaging fans through exciting signings and improved on-field performance. The conversation touches on the challenges of modern media consumption, with Speaker 1 criticizing the fragmented and costly nature of accessing content, comparing it to the Baltimore Banner and Baltimore Sun. Luke Jones discusses the inconvenience of having multiple streaming services and how it affects sports fandom, mentioning the NFL’s success despite being perceived as arrogant. Mike Ricigliano acknowledges the role of journalists in keeping sports honest. The discussion also includes personal anecdotes about colonoscopies, with Luke Jones recommending getting one at age 45 due to family history. The segment ends with plans for a Maryland crab cake tour and community events.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Discuss the Orioles’ need to make a “big splash” this offseason to re-engage fans and generate enthusiasm for the team.
• [ ] Identify pitching and outfield targets for the Orioles to sign this offseason.
• [ ] Evaluate whether the Orioles should consider trading some of their young core players like Gunnar Henderson if the team continues to struggle.

Orioles Offseason Hopes and Personal Connections

• Nestor J. Aparicio introduces the show, mentioning his upcoming medical procedure and thanks to GBMC for their support.
• Nestor introduces Mike Ricigliano, a sports cartoonist, and Luke Jones, discussing their personal connections and history with Pizza John’s.
• Luke Jones shares his family’s history with Pizza John’s and Essex, mentioning his father’s high school years and connections to Nestor’s mother.
• Nestor expresses his intention to honor Luke’s father by inducting him into the Kenwood Hall of Fame next year.

Discussion on Recent Sports Events and Personal Experiences

• Mike Ricigliano and Luke Jones discuss their experiences at Pizza John’s and their rare appearances on the show together.
• Nestor and Mike reminisce about their experiences in New York, including the recent election and the excitement around the Bills and Blue Jays.
• Mike shares his frustration with the Blue Jays’ performance in the World Series, comparing it to the Bills’ losses.
• Nestor and Mike discuss the excitement of the World Series game seven and the close calls for both teams.

Hopes for the Orioles and Comparisons to Toronto

• Nestor shifts the conversation to the Orioles, expressing optimism about their potential for improvement next season.
• Luke Jones compares the Orioles’ current situation to Toronto’s last-to-first transformation, highlighting the need for bold moves in the offseason.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of spending money wisely and the need for a strong pitching staff.
• Mike Ricigliano joins the conversation, emphasizing the need for depth and high-impact signings to excite fans.

Challenges and Opportunities for the Orioles

• Nestor and Luke discuss the challenges the Orioles face, including the need to improve their pitching and the potential for trades involving young talent.
• Nestor expresses concern about the Orioles’ ability to attract and retain top free agents due to financial constraints.
• Luke highlights the importance of winning consistently to build fan interest and revenue.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential impact of the upcoming lockout on the Orioles’ offseason plans and financial stability.

The Role of Craig Albert and Ownership

• Nestor and Luke discuss the recent hiring of Craig Albert as the Orioles’ new manager and their expectations for his leadership.
• Nestor expresses skepticism about the current ownership group’s ability to make significant improvements.
• Luke emphasizes the need for a clear vision and urgency from ownership to drive success.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of branding and fan engagement to build a strong fan base.

The Impact of Media and Technology on Sports Viewing

• Nestor and Luke discuss the challenges of accessing live sports on various platforms, including Apple TV and Amazon Prime.
• Nestor shares his personal experience of struggling to watch a game in Nashville due to subscription issues.
• Luke highlights the broader implications of these access issues for the sports industry and fan engagement.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for direct-to-consumer models to revolutionize the way fans consume sports content.

The Future of the Orioles and Sports Industry

• Nestor and Luke discuss the long-term outlook for the Orioles and the sports industry as a whole.
• Nestor expresses concern about the sustainability of the current revenue model and the impact of the upcoming lockout.
• Luke emphasizes the need for innovation and adaptability to stay competitive in a rapidly changing industry.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of maintaining fan interest and engagement to ensure the long-term success of the Orioles.

Discussion on Media Subscription Models and Consumer Frustrations

• Speaker 1 criticizes the practice of charging different prices for different types of water, comparing it to the fragmented media subscription models.
• Speaker 1 expresses frustration with paywalls and subscription models that charge consumers repeatedly over time, using examples like the Baltimore Banner and Baltimore Sun.
• Luke Jones discusses the inconvenience of having multiple streaming services and how it has led to a shift in consumer behavior, such as following games on social media or listening to them on the radio.
• Speaker 1 mentions their own strategy of avoiding certain platforms during baseball season, highlighting the consumer’s struggle with the current media landscape.

Challenges of Modern Sports Consumption

• Luke Jones talks about the NFL’s success in maintaining a large audience despite being perceived as arrogant, questioning whether other sports can achieve the same level of consumer loyalty.
• Mike Ricigliano acknowledges the efforts of journalists in keeping sports coverage honest and accessible to fans.
• Nestor J. Aparicio humorously mentions various food items associated with different holidays, including figgy pudding and Thanksgiving meals.
• Nestor J. Aparicio thanks Todd Schuler and Bill Cole for their previous contributions and promotes the Maryland lottery and GBMC.

Personal Health and Colonoscopy Experiences

• Nestor J. Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the importance of getting colonoscopies, with Luke recommending getting one at age 45 due to family history.
• Speaker 1 and Mike Ricigliano share their experiences with colonoscopies, including the preparation and the actual procedure.
• Mike Ricigliano recounts a humorous story about his colonoscopy appointment being canceled due to the office being closed, highlighting the challenges of scheduling such procedures.
• The conversation shifts to lighter topics, including favorite foods and the Maryland crab cake tour.

Community Engagement and Future Plans

• Nestor J. Aparicio mentions upcoming guests and topics, including a discussion about the community turkey trot and holiday plans.
• Mike Ricigliano expresses interest in talking about baseball with Ron Cassie, who has been riding a bike in Morocco.
• The segment concludes with Nestor J. Aparicio reiterating the fun and community aspect of the Maryland crab cake tour, emphasizing the importance of local engagement.
• The participants look forward to future discussions and events, maintaining a positive and inclusive tone throughout the conversation.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles offseason, World Series hopes, Craig Albert, young talent, pitching needs, Birdland membership, revenue model, fan engagement, Toronto comparison, ownership changes, player contracts, ticket sales, media disruption, fan loyalty, baseball strategy., Orioles offseason, Baltimore Orioles, journalism paywalls, streaming services, consumer convenience, NFL arrogance, Maryland lottery, colonoscopy, GBMC, community turkey trot, Baltimore magazine, baseball discussion, Maryland crab cake tour, public service announcement.

SPEAKERS

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Luke Jones, Speaker 2, Speaker 1, Nestor J. Aparicio, Mike Ricigliano

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:00

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We’re Baltimore positive. We’re positively at Pizza John’s. I do have a raven scratch offs from the Maryland lottery. Also our friends at GBMC putting us out on the road for this. I will be undergoing the the mini little nap that they’re going to give me on Friday to make sure that I’m PSA clear and all of my men’s procedures at GBMC. Big thanks to Dr. Oscari is going to be coming on me on next week. His name is Haas scary, H, O, S, K, E, R, E, like hascair, but it’s scary, and I’m not scared, so I’m gonna let him know I ain’t scared, but he’s gonna come on and talk me through one more time the special milkshake and all that stuff. So we’ll be doing that two weeks from now. Get yourself checked out, guys out there especially, and our friends at GBMC keeping me safe so that I can continue to annoy my audience, my guests, my wife and my dearest friends, including Mike rossignliano, sports cartoonist extraordinaire, formerly of the Baltimore Sun crack magazine and most importantly, of Beverly Hills. Or is it Mayfield? What is

Mike Ricigliano  01:00

it? Eastward drive Mayfield, the, you know, OPPO, the park.

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:05

Well, I mean, people were asking over Coco Laurel, you were sick at odds over this bills ravens thing, or, like, whatever. I’m like, man, we got grand twins in Brooklyn, and there was an election. I don’t know if you knew right, right guy. One good job. Guys, way to go. New York. Pretty amazing. Yeah. So you were up in New York, so you missed Coco so I did, yeah, now you have you ever been to Pizza John’s?

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Mike Ricigliano  01:27

I have been here. Yes, I’ve been to Pizza John’s, but never for your show, of course. And

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:31

you have done radio one time with Luke, maybe, and all

Luke Jones  01:35

Cocos, maybe one other time, at some

Nestor J. Aparicio  01:38

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point, rare that we that I bring together such an all star ensemble. I mean, Bill Todd Schuler, how long you guys been friends? What years you guys meet? 30 years and this first time they’ve been on a show together, they’re awesome together, right? Don’t tell them that, please. I’m just saying I enjoyed it, but, but you know, this is Luke stomp, and people don’t know Luke’s Essex background. So people see that Pizza John set that you’re not wearing, right? Yeah, you’re wearing something else, but, um, but I figured

Luke Jones  02:08

if I it’s kind of like when you go to a to a concert, you can’t wear the band’s t shirt to the actual concert, right? I mean, that’s kind of considered saying it’s flame, yeah, exactly, exactly the signals what I’m talking about here, sure,

Speaker 1  02:20

well, but I do know that you you love pizza Jones. I do. I do. I mean,

Luke Jones  02:23

my grandparents lived right across the street. I mean, they’re no longer with us, but my dad grew up here. My dad went to Kenwood. You know, he was born in 1951 so I guess that made him classes 69 right around there.

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Speaker 1  02:34

Your dad went to high school with my mother. If I get my mother’s high you have your dad’s high school yearbooks.

Luke Jones  02:39

My mom has it. I’m has it. I’m not sure

Speaker 1  02:43

I have a yearbook. Okay, I bet your dad is in my mother’s eyes. Probably I’m serious. How do I not know that?

Luke Jones  02:51

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I don’t know. I didn’t know. I feel like I’ve mentioned, oh, I mean, you knew that my dad and my grandparents lived here, I mean, right, literally, right across the

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:59

street with you bluebirds, yeah. Now we got to say something. I mean,

Luke Jones  03:03

I don’t know a whole lot, yeah. I mean, obviously, that was a long time ago. My dad’s been gone for 21 years now, but I

Speaker 1  03:08

wanted to do something honor heist today, because heist is an Essex guy, even though he was more of a cost this guy. But I know he had a lot of pizza, John’s, if he swallowed a lot of aggression, a lot of pizza. Oh, yeah, but, but he, they’re gonna put him in the Kenwood Hall of Fame. And I sort of work something out on that, and I was gonna do a little something today, but the Kenwood Hall of Fame, does he? We’re gonna do that next, next year. So let’s get his family, let’s get Ginsburg out, get some of his buddies out, and that’ll be nice. Yeah. Did you know Craig? I

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Mike Ricigliano  03:35

don’t know personally, but I know him online, of course, your presence, and he’s even contributed to some of my goofy tributes. He

Speaker 1  03:42

knew of you, right? Of course, he knew of you so well, it’s good to have you guys together. We’re not going to do football in this segment. We’re going to do pizza. We’re going to do cricket cut french fries and gravy and delicious cheese steaks, double Provolone and all that here in Essex. But I want to do some baseball, and we’re seeing I skipped that on you Tuesday because of the election and all that. I missed you. We could have talked some football early in a week and congratulated you on some bills. Big win

Mike Ricigliano  04:06

for Buffalo. It was a great win for Buffalo. Like we just said, Can they do it in the postseason? Oh, for three so far against that team. So I, you know, I’ll, I’ll, you know, I’ll give you my baseball continuation of that. I’m a Bills fan. I lived in Buffalo, as some of you know, and it’s always been frustrating. The Blue Jays continued that for me, but the Blue Jays played in Buffalo for a year. Buffalo’s team, for better or worse, I mean, about there’s a lot of buffalo fans that are Yankee fans, really, but, but for one year, during the covid year, right? They were the buffalo J’s. They were, they were the, you know, they were the Blue Jays, but they were by even have a buffalo J’s sheet shirt that bolani sent me. So we were rooting for the Blue Jays in that, in that series. And it was the same kind of frustrating bills loss,

04:58

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or sabers law. It was game seven

Luke Jones  05:03

lead in the ninth inning of game seven with one out. Oh,

Mike Ricigliano  05:06

by God. You know, what an amazing, great series, and what has to frustrating game from

Speaker 1  05:12

double down the line, they win the World Series. Period, right? Like, literally, if the catcher doesn’t get his cleat

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Luke Jones  05:18

back on home plate, they win the World Series. That’s true to think about it. That’s how close it was. There was,

Mike Ricigliano  05:23

like, fantastic series, we talked about it, but yeah, like five or six times during that game that I thought the Blue Jays had it, you know, and each time it got snatched away from him, from either a great Dodgers play or something, karma that went wrong for the Blue Jays on that one, it was, it was

Luke Jones  05:39

tough. In contrast, I was watching that game seven, and I texted my best buddy and said, If the Orioles were playing in this they would have lost the World Series four times already.

Speaker 1  05:47

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Like honestly, and we’ve had drama like that with the Ravens. I mean, you and I even back in 2012 13 with Billy Cundiff and even four plays at the goal line with the ravens and the Super Bowl, right? Like we’ve had the chew your fingernails moments as fans here, been a long time. But can you imagine the Orioles in that circumstance, in a game seven, I can’t Camden Yards, I mean it that doesn’t even seem that that’s very surreal to think that there would be a game seven of the World Series at Camden Yards, that the Orioles could be in that kind of position. But that’s what we’re going to talk about right now, because that was surreal for you and I on opening day, when you and I fist bumped and you went in the press entrance and I bought a $12 ticket at skydome and went in there were, like the beginning of the season, the notion that that place was going to be the scene and the site of game seven of the World Series. I don’t know what the odds would have been had we would have gone on to ESPN bet and and bet on that now defunct ESPN, exactly. Yeah, exactly. God bless you, Hollywood Casino.

Speaker 1  06:50

But that notion that you could be that close and that far away and think like we were last place team last year, so that is, I don’t want to get sell Katie too many tickets, but I want to do a little sunshine for you, Luke, because you’re Mr. Sunshine. With baseball, that is the hope that springs eternal. And in many, many years with angelos, it wasn’t even possible. We knew on November 5 that next year was impossible. It doesn’t feel that way with this version of the Orioles right now. It does feel like they could make real moves, and that they have four or five position players and at least two pitchers that next year could ascend, and they could be the team with three MVP candidates, two Cy Young candidates. They could be that next year. Now let’s talk about how they can get there, because that’s a pretty optimistic thought for a last place

Luke Jones  07:46

team. It’s always easy when you have an example of a last to first situation like Toronto. I mean, let’s face it, a year ago at this time, are the Orioles perceived any worse than Toronto was at that point, or are they perceived better? They want 101 games, two years, sure, sure, but, but it’s fun and it’s funny. I mean, I can go back to conversations you and I had six months ago, a year ago, 18 months ago, and there were definitely times where we drew comparisons. As far as Toronto was kind of a year or two ahead of where the Orioles were with their young core and with making the playoffs and not winning playoff games, and then they have this backslide in 2024 where, yeah, you can sell it, but doesn’t mean there isn’t a heck of a lot of work that needs to be done this offseason. I mean, money to be spent, to be spent, more importantly, wisely, to not be afraid, to make some bold moves, whether you’re talking about a signing, whether you’re talking about a trade. I mean, obviously they’ve gotten some pretty good early reviews as far as their managerial hire. And Craig Albert, as for a new guy doesn’t mean he’s gonna be able to do the job. And, you know, I think this is where you say, okay, they’ve sold me on him enough. I of the three individuals that were there for the press conference on Monday, this past Monday, when they’re or this past Tuesday when they’re introducing the manager. I was far more impressed with what Albert has had to say then we’ve heard Mike Elias not be the most dynamic speaker as far as someone that’s going to really pump you up. And you know, David Rubenstein, honestly, at some points, almost coming across as lecturing or just not really having a great feel for what he’s talking about. So I’m all like, I don’t know if all in is the right term, because I don’t know. I mean, I’m not gonna sit here and say that I was intimately familiar with Craig Albert as his career, but I like the boxes that it checks, but now it’s okay, ownership and front office, drinking and

Speaker 1  09:42

driving, there’s nothing you do wrong between now and March 25 right? He’s not going to make any decisions, you know, off the field, nothing

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Luke Jones  09:50

front facing, right? I mean, he has a lot of work to do to in terms of building rapport with his players and evaluating, you know, laying his eyes and his ears on what’s. Going on and then hopefully having some fresh ideas. I mean, you know, re This is one of the things I liked about him, that he cut his teeth coaching in Tampa Bay system, which the rays have, right done as much with as little as anybody in baseball over the last 20 years. I like Cleveland and their profile, not so much in the terms of the money they spend, but what they’ve gotten out of their resources. So he was in San Francisco, and, you know, maybe not in their, you know, what their peak of 10 or 15 years ago, but highly regarded nonetheless. So I like a lot of that, but

Mike Ricigliano  10:32

same, still, the same. GM, yeah, or, or person making the moves, and that’s

Speaker 1  10:38

I would fill us up 70% sure, how does the philosophy this offseason rear itself in some way that feels different than angelos, feels competent, feels structured, feels conveyed to the fans to say this is different. I didn’t feel different to me. They had a press conference week. I was locked out of I sit and I watch it, and I’m like, owner looks like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. General Manager is what he is. Still seems like the guy that would fire the guy next to him and then hide for four days. Therefore I wouldn’t have allies around. But that being said, Albert, as top of class, I’m bought in. To your point, been enough for me to check enough boxes that, all right, I have an open mind about we have a manager. Now, let’s get some pitching. Now, let’s get what’s the next thing we’re gonna do?

Mike Ricigliano  11:24

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So, Luke, I wanted to ask you, like, compare it, because you guys referred to the Toronto last the first thing does do the Orioles have more young talent than Toronto had last year coming in or similar?

Luke Jones  11:39

I mean, obviously it’s easy to look at Vlad Guerrero, it’s easy to look

Speaker 1  11:42

at Bob a shet, but then you look at then you look at gunner Henderson and Adley rushman holiday. They’re supposed to be that, sure they really are. And if they’re not, if they don’t turn into that, we play World Series games here. Yeah,

Luke Jones  11:53

no question. I mean, obviously some combination of those guys has to pop. And it can’t just be two guys. It needs to be at least a few others right Westbrook at the end of last a year and a half ago, Jordan westburg was the talk of the town. I mean, he was an all star last year. He’s been hurt largely since then. It’s not, I don’t think any less of him as a player, but I think less of his availability and his ability to reach a ceiling was

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Speaker 1  12:15

their best player 24 months ago, and he is now a question mark as to whether he’s a major league catcher at this point, exactly.

Luke Jones  12:24

Yeah. I mean, that’s incredible, right? And when we use the Toronto comparison, it’s not to say that it’s a perfect comparison. I mean, we’ve talked about the potential for growth when you’re talking about being the only major league baseball team in Canada. We’ve seen what those World Series ratings and the eyeballs that were on that series, obviously, la being a huge market had a big part to do with that. But Toronto

Speaker 1  12:45

as well, whoever the audience want to sign this offseason, name picture x, or outfielder y, or whoever you think that they should sign, reliever, the Blue Jays are going to have more money to spend on it, period, and that’s a factor of the industry and the game. But we always said, Oh, how are we gonna win with the Yankees in the Red Sox Blue Jays have more money, neither one on, but they try and that, that’s saying some but the Yankees, because the Blue Jays have a country like, it’s a different gig.

Mike Ricigliano  13:10

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But the Blue Jays did try to get some big game free agents last year and try to entertain, and didn’t, right? I mean, they just kept trying, I guess, and until they got at least a few guys that that signed on. So I I don’t know if it’s because they didn’t want to play in Toronto or whatever, but guys like Soto and some of those other guys that were available just didn’t go to Toronto, you know. So, so I don’t know if they would come to Baltimore over Toronto, but

Speaker 1  13:37

I don’t know if we would have the money to outbid, or whether they have the gumption to outbid because when I say Otani to him, he just shrugs his shoulders. And people, well, we can’t have him. We can’t have the really good things, because it’s expensive. It would cost you much. I don’t care what it costs. Hey, my money, you know, I mean, like, literally win. You got to win, whatever cost you have to win. You’re going to be more pragmatic about we can’t shop top shelf, and we really don’t want to, because you always sort of make that case for you do that we don’t have to spend that money. But once you say that, then you have to be that much more deft, that much more lucky to not have guys arms fall off, because they could have given $250 million

Luke Jones  14:16

just gonna say, I mean, Corbin burns, they lost, and that, for me, is much more the argument, as far as not doing that specifically for pictures, and why you need to load up on pitching, and why there

Speaker 1  14:28

that is philosophical, for sure, and probably shared by Michael IAS, probably, right,

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Luke Jones  14:33

probably, although my pushback on that would be them. Why so little interest in drafting pictures, especially if you 2023 is, and I’ve showed remember I had the list, I held it up, or remember that on the on the video and everything handwritten? That’s when they started to put a little more into drafting, pitching. Now we’re still not talking first round, second round, per se, but those first few drafts you kind of look at and save for it like a couple guys like you could count on one hand and have. A finger or two left over they they were waiting till like the eighth, the ninth, the 10th round, the 12th round, right, right? So they’ve at least started to do more of that. And if you look at their system now, I’m not saying it’s top of class in this way, but you are finding more and more. You know, the Jim calluses, the baseball Americas, Keith laws, those types who are really paying attention to farm systems, their pitching is starting to look better. Is it where it needs to be? Of course, not.

Speaker 1  15:27

But Elias, if he were here in his defense, he would say, Luke, I traded Ortiz to get to get Corbin burns. I traded a second baseman in an outfielder, albeit an all star outfield that we had no use for here, or we believed he was below mayo. And cows are in a bunch of these other guys on our depth chart, and we got a pitcher that’s going to be our opening day pitcher next year, who pitched to a sub two era, who we resurrected, because we’re smart around sure that we fired all our pitching coaches, but Elias would make the case that I turned a second base, shortstop and outfield be prospects. All of them be prospects into a Cy Young candidate that we couldn’t keep right but, but I did turn it into pitching. So he would make that case. He and and, and I’d have to say,

Luke Jones  16:16

you’re right. And honestly, that’s what’s been my position in terms of not viewing this as a black or white, open and shut kind of deal of michaelias has done a lot of good things. Now, I felt much better about where he was from November of 2018 to say, the trade deadline of 23 as far as what he had done to get them to that point, the body of work now for two, two and a half years since then is where I’m underwhelmed. As far as he did all this work to build this thing to a point where it felt like it was very much ready to take off. And then, you know, where are the are the big moves to get you over the hump? Burns was a great move, even with him having walked after a year. I mean, look at that. Joey Ortiz profiles more and more like a utility infield.

Speaker 1  17:04

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The guy wouldn’t have gotten a bad year last Sure, no question.

Speaker 2  17:08

But these are still my fantasy. He’s not that bad. He’s

Luke Jones  17:11

getting better, but these are still assets that you’re managing, right? These are still, this is still value, whether you’re going to be able to maximize that value on your club or not. These are still assets that you want to manage, right? I mean, whether they’re going to be on your team or not. So in the case of they traded Ortiz and DL Hall, who I loved for a long time, but he got to it got to a point where the injuries and the stunning of his development, he’s a reliever, right? And even hasn’t really made that big of an impact even in that way. So regardless of burns, being here one year and then being gone, I’ll always sign I’ll sign off on that trade. To this day, problem is again, if it was a one one year thing, and you understood your chances probably weren’t great of keeping him, that was a time to push your chips in a little more aggressively at that point, not to trade your entire farm system. But hey, you and I’ve talked about it a lot. Tarik Scoob to trade deadlines ago. Was it possible? Maybe, maybe not? Crochet? Garrett, crochet moved. I mean, the Red Sox did it? The Orioles could have, absolutely, they had the absolutely could have

Speaker 1  18:13

made a move, traded. Colton cows are so Oh, sure, right. Would have been outrageous back then. Which would look better? Really good

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Luke Jones  18:20

right now. So, so and look to rehash all this, isn’t to say that all is lost, but they’ve got a lot of heavy lifting to do. And go back to a point that you just made, because I was thinking about this a lot. Does it look different? And there were elements, again, going back to Elias, the first four or five years that he was in charge, did look different in terms of valuing the farm system, building an academy in the Dominican Republic, becoming a player at all when it comes to international talent, which the Angelos era, they completely sat that out for all intents and purposes. So way

18:58

Schuler sitting at a guy, so they’re right.

Luke Jones  19:01

So there were changes that were implemented that did look different, but as we’ve now gotten to this point, and obviously there having been a transition from John Angelos being the control person to David Rubenstein being the control person, and seeing how many Angelos lieutenants for back, for lack of a better description, have remained in place, that’s where you haven’t necessarily seen change that you would like to see. And

Speaker 1  19:24

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attendance is down a half a million just since

Luke Jones  19:28

you brought this up. And this will be a little more in your wheelhouse. And you know we’re seeing you can chime in as well. I found it illuminating that the Orioles on November 6, announced their promotional schedule for 2026 I went back and looked over the last 10 years, the earliest they had ever announced that, typically, that was a January or February thing. Earliest they had announced that December 14. Wonder, what your and well?

Speaker 1  19:54

And they’re trying to do it to stoke tickets for holiday

Luke Jones  19:57

size well and. How much of it is a response to, what are Birdland membership sales looking like on the heels of all the changes made at the end of, oh, I’m wondering if there is some desperation there where they say, oh my gosh, we because they typically this is done in concert with individual tickets going on sale. When they sent out their press release a couple days ago, they just said that will be announced sometime soon. So it was curious to me. I mean, to be clear, to be clear. I’m not even saying it’s a bad thing to announce that in November. That’s something they should have been doing 10 or 15 years ago. However, I do wonder how much of that is a reflection of, oh my gosh. We need to start moving Birdland membership sales. And with the tickets right, cost rising, and there’s no more 13 and 29 game plan, they’re pushing people to 20 and 40 game plans. Revenue, I wonder revenue. I just wonder how much of that was a response to, oh, this is not going well. We need to get going and but I will also say, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, per se, to announce your promotionals in November, compared to waiting until pitchers and catchers have reported and people were waiting to potentially buy tickets if they’re excited. And Bradish giveaway, you know, I saw, yeah, well, they actually, they didn’t even have pictures. They didn’t even have photos. Typically, when they put it out, they have the photos, like the prototype of each giveaway. They didn’t even have that. So I don’t know that was my takeaway from that’s telling me that Birdland memberships not not going as nearly as well. And it’s not a shock based on what we it’s also

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Speaker 1  21:25

not a shock to Katie Griggs, a week give things away. Have people come like that. That is their model at this point, that their model to getting asses in the seats isn’t winning games. It isn’t their players. It’s Star Wars night. It’s get a bobblehead. It’s we’re gonna give you something, and they’re not giving it at all. They up chart. They charge you $5 more than, like, the bobble edge there to pay for it.

Mike Ricigliano  21:47

But it would be a different model if they want more. You know, if they, if they had, if they got out of the gate really well and started winning games, it

Speaker 1  21:56

would be sell tickets at this point. Is that That’s all they have, other than the Cardinals are coming to town, or the Dodgers or or it’s fireworks night. I mean that there has to be something that feels like an incentive into it at this point for me to get my wallet and give them money right now, because you know what? They’re not top of mind right now. They’re not at all. And the ravens are going to play this week and next week and the week after that, and they’re not playing for five more months. And to your point, you don’t think business picks up until they start winning. They can’t start winning until June.

Luke Jones  22:27

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Well, I mean, like, literally, that’s still going to be the major driving force. And as I’ve said to you, not just winning for a year or two, they need to do it and sustain that, right? I mean, we’ve talked, I remember famously talking to you about the Royals having won the World Series, and you had so many friends in KC wondering what that was going to do. You know, they had a nice bump for three years, maybe, and then it kind of settled back in. So

Speaker 1  22:50

everybody in the stadium at Game four of the ALCS, everybody was going to have season tickets for lunch. Oh, my God, I’m on the 13th. And it was an extraordinary atmosphere last place, and there’s 4000 people there again, and that very much isn’t, you know, that’s very much more reason to really, really love your real fans, Katie, the people who were there all the time, no matter what, you have to love them well, because you’re gonna lose

Luke Jones  23:14

and you are. And there’s also you have to cast as wide a net as possible, right? I mean, it’s not, oh, we don’t know if we win. We don’t need to give anything away. I mean, I’ve said this to you. I mean, go look at the Houston Astros, who have won as much as anyone over the last decade. Go look at their promotional schedule. Last year, they had plenty of giveaways, a lot they have even during the week. Of course, of course. But that is still part of the model for attracting people to come to games, even if it’s more people during the week, right? I mean, if you’re a healthy franchise that’s winning, at the very least, you should be cleaning up on the weekends, right? I mean, I think we would all be in agreement on that, but Adam Jones, sure, at night, well, but that usually is done on a Saturday, though, right? It’s very rare when you give that away on a Tuesday. But point is, it’s all these things, right? And, and look, I’ve made the comment about they need to winning is what’s going to drive it first and foremost. Yes, but that doesn’t mean you don’t treat people well in in the in the progress of doing in the process of doing that. I mean, you have to do all of that. And you know, what are, what are they going to do? I mean, what?

Speaker 1  24:15

What’s your cartoon on this? For SIG, if you’re cartooning this right now, what’s your what do you think of the Orioles right now. What comes top of mind on the back end of this press conference, that if you had to be the snarky jerk, that you can be hometown, fawning Hero Guy, where are you on the Oriole company? Because you wore an Oriole hat today without him. Realize we’re gonna

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Mike Ricigliano  24:36

talk Orioles. I mean, I It’s the type of thing where, if I was a cartoonist. I’m retired cartoon now, basically, wow. I mean, he

Speaker 1  24:44

told me what cartoonist. I drove him home. We went drinking together. We went day drinking. We’re sick, and I together at Cocos, and he lives six blocks away, but he’s getting older, and he felt like he needed a ride, so I gave him a ride home, and he said, I said, we’re sick. I need a favor. And he looked. Looks at me like sad eyes. He’s like, don’t make me draw anything you did do that. I’ll do anything for you, but a cartoon. I’ve done so

Speaker 2  25:08

many drawings for you and of you that

Speaker 1  25:13

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make me draw you guys. I’m like, I don’t need a cartoon machine. I don’t need

Mike Ricigliano  25:17

that. I don’t know what the cartoon would be. I know that last year I would have had a bit of a field day, kind of doing cartoons about the, you know, the pratfalls of this team all season long. I think it would be from an upbeat more is the hope as, yeah, exactly standpoint going into the season. And I think part of that is the Toronto thing for me, just to kind of see a franchise go from last to first with a lot of talent. This is a team that has a lot of talent to somehow, I would build a cartoon that way.

Speaker 1  25:48

I think I’ve been talking about the Ravens talent the last eight weeks too. You hope that catches up in the record, though, at some point. And with the Orioles, all of us are of the mindset that they need to move some tectonic plates here in the offseason, right? I mean, not just, Well, we’re gonna come back with gunner and Adley, yeah, we were gonna just bring all the young guys back, and we’re just gonna give him some more water, and, you know, hope for some more sunlight, and hope that all of the flowers in the garden bloom, that Mayo is gonna be a 30 home run guy, and gunner is gonna hit 30 and knocking 120 and rushman is gonna come back to Life and be a 274 hitter with 18 bombs and 90 RBI westburg is going to be healthy for 145 games next year, and he’s fulfilled that promise in 28 home runs and driving in 94 runs like that is I can buy into all of that, and I can buy into because that’s not buying into Brady Anderson being a 185 hitter Rochester and then hit 50 home run. That’s not pie in the sky for any of these prospects. It’s also not crazy for me to think that Bradish and Rogers are going to be top of the top of line pitchers, that they’re going to be front end of the rotation game, 123, starters in a playoff scenario next October. I’ll buy all that now. What else has to happen between now and February

Mike Ricigliano  27:03

15, isn’t isn’t that the thinking that went into it last season, basically, you went in with that kind of mentality like these things are going to happen with all these guys is going to be there. We’re

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Speaker 1  27:13

going to add muscles, right? So they had muscles, we lost burns, and we’re going to add 341, year old wash ups, right?

Mike Ricigliano  27:20

Exactly. So you can’t go into a season that way. You know, the Dodgers didn’t go into this. I mean, a lot of money, but the Dodgers had like, eight starting pitchers on that team that were great starting pitchers. They know, tawny and Ohtani, you know. So, like, I don’t know, to me, if you have the wherewithal to do it, find a find more, find depth. You know, what

Speaker 1  27:41

makes you believe? What? What? What are the three to five things? Kittridge, I mean,

Luke Jones  27:48

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I mean, not on my that’s not one of my three to five things. I mean, God bless that they brought him out.

Speaker 1  27:53

That’s 60 innings of relief. Help, sure you see, right? I mean, a professional help. Not not we’re gonna cross our fingers for some guy at Norfolk or some left hander who pitched for the pirates two years ago. I mean, it

Luke Jones  28:06

look, you just laid out the scenario of everything going right with these young guys. And look, it’s not all going to go that way, but they need a lot of that to go that way. You’re not going to, I mean, you’re not going to turn over your entire roster. What? When I’ve suggested the idea of perhaps trading one of those guys, you know, in some in a way that can help you get a veteran asset, a starting pitch, or whatever it might be, but also the idea of maybe shaking that group up a little bit, you know, maybe there’s, and I don’t say this to try to be too critical of the young guys, but, you know, they, they came here As rock stars, right? I mean, Adley rochman was the face of the Orioles from the moment he was drafted in June of 2019 what has he really done to truly warrant that? Other than the two years that he played well and it’s been a mess for the last

Speaker 1  28:56

this is the way we sit here. Talk about said and catcher set we know where catchers are. We know our first baseman. We know who are. So I don’t know who the first

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Luke Jones  29:03

baseman is yet. I’m not ready to sign off on Kobe mayo. I mean that, see that that that’s the thinking that got them into trouble last year. That’s where look, Gunner Henderson is gonna be the shortstop, right? I you know you have Jordan westburg and Jackson holiday in the infield, barring moving one of those guys right in a more blockbuster, not blockbuster trade, but a high profile trade, you would expect them because they’re they’ve at least established themselves as major

Speaker 1  29:28

waves. Henderson, I just want to say this out loud, because I’ve never said this and ever Todd’s gonna throw pizza at me. If there’s a point where you know you can’t sign him, you better be thinking about like, you know, I don’t know what the deal 2026, is pretty big crochets, and you, you make those really tough calls to say he, he’s not going to sign here for 400 million, and we’re not. And that’s that Sure. And so, well, where is the current value? You’re

Luke Jones  29:55

starting to see this other point. You’re starting to see this being talked about in Detroit, about Tere. School Board. Are they going to, I mean, he’s entering the final year of club control superstar.

Speaker 1  30:04

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There’s no. And then there’s what they did with Machado, which is getting a bag of beans for many well. But

Luke Jones  30:09

then there’s also, like, in Detroit’s case, okay, they could sell him. They’re not for one year of Tarek school. They’ll do well. But it’s not as though Milwaukee cleaned up for Corbin burns, and I’ll even hear Tara’s better right now than Corbin Burns was at that point in time. But when you’re in a position like they’re in in the Al Central, and when you look at the landscape of the American League, I mean to the point that we were talking about a few minutes ago, it’s not as though Toronto, even as they were the best team in the league for much of the season. It’s not as though they were viewed as this unbeatable Juggernaut, maybe in the way that we view the Dodgers. So if you’re Detroit, yeah, you’re thinking in terms of we have this asset that’s going to potentially be gone a year from now, but you still have the 2026 season that you don’t want to just pun on. So yeah, it does get tough, and that’s why I said with the Orioles with Gunner, even though, you know he’s not in a contract year. But if you have another season that looks largely like this past one, or it’s only marginally better than Yeah, a year from now, I’ll be saying you probably need to trade gunner Henderson, and that’s not something Orioles fans want to hear. But oh, Orioles

Speaker 1  31:13

fans aren’t going to want to hear kauser westburg rushman. They’ll all hear at this point. But values down on that. I don’t

Luke Jones  31:21

know as much about Colton cows, right? I know that they, you know, obviously, with the whole new thing, right? I mean, you know, they had the section of tickets, the section of seats, with the ticket sale and everything. But I think Imperial

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Mike Ricigliano  31:34

fans would be happy to upgrade his numbers most of those outfield positions on this team, right?

Luke Jones  31:38

I mean, right. So,

31:40

you know? So you’re expecting outfielders and pitch, oh, they need

Luke Jones  31:42

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to, I’m if they don’t have to find a big outfielder on this day, they have to add one, yeah, relatively high impact outfield. Yeah. I mean, I agree. As I’ve said to you, I don’t necessarily view this through the lens that you’re gonna have three outfielders that you view as playing 155 games each. You know, part of that solution might be Colton cowser becomes a platoon player. You know, I I like Dylan beavers a lot, but I’m not just automatically assuming he’s going to play 160 games. Now, he might be that kind of player. I’d really like what I saw from him, especially that he draws walks on like about two thirds of this roster, albeit in a limited sample, in six weeks. But you know, those two Tyler O’Neal is going to be on the roster, right? If he’s healthy, he’s either gonna be on the aisle or he’s gonna be on the roster. But clearly you’re not, clearly you’re not doing any meaningful planning on him being any more than give him the press pass.

32:34

No, I’m just saying you’re being tough.

Luke Jones  32:37

But he’s gonna be on the oh, I kind of view him like Grayson Rodriguez right now, Grayson Rodriguez is healthy, he’s gonna be on the pitching staff. I mean, he’s too talented not to be. But is he up a plan, a guy for you? Of course not right now, close. Maybe he winds up in the bullpen. I mean, they’re gonna

Speaker 1  32:53

have to think as much as I’m being mean and you’re being snarky, or reveal all that he might be a guy that hits 28 home runs

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Luke Jones  33:00

next year, right? If he’s healthy, he I’m guessing you see him play, they give him the ABA, he might only play maybe, maybe the if I’m trying to draw this up, as I always try to say, best case scenario, but I’m not, not in La, La Land, right? Your most reasonable best case scenario for him might be that he dhs 70 games, and maybe plays 4050, in the outfield. And then whatever you get beyond that, you know, 120 games is still on the higher end of his career, as far as games that he’s played in a season, if you can get that from him. I mean, that might be 27 home runs right there. He has power. I’m he is not lacking ability. His problem is availability. And obviously that’s a huge thing, and it’s why, you know, I certainly wasn’t well about

Speaker 1  33:48

him at this point, right? I mean, if you were allowed to ask questions that piss them off, you’d say, what you what did you see in him then? And where are you now? It’s

Luke Jones  33:56

what I just told you. I mean, look at the power potential. I mean, that’s but

Speaker 1  33:59

8

the risk reward on that everybody, in the end, there was a reason he was available. Sure, right?

Luke Jones  34:04

Literally, sure, sure. And look, I mean at the same time, it didn’t mean

Speaker 1  34:09

that here’s a risky bet, is all I’m saying. It was for the amount of money involved. It was

Luke Jones  34:13

at the same time. We also need to look from 30,000 feet, three years, 49 million relative to many, many, many contracts around baseball, it was risky for what this organization has been in recent years, for sure, but it’s, it’s not something that should cripple your franchise either. Let’s, let’s at least acknowledge that much, right? It’s not something that they should be thinking is prohibited for them to go out and spend money this offseason. When you look at their projected payroll right now, it’s roughly half of what it was last year because of all the expiring one year deals that they gave out last year. As I said to you now, they didn’t sink a lot of long term money into that roster last year, but they spent money. The big question was, did they spend it very wisely? And I think. That was a pretty emphatic no, save for Ramon Laureano and

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Speaker 1  35:05

goes back to Craig Kimbrel right like back here. The last two years, the signings haven’t been good and the money hasn’t been great, but there’s been more money, because money bags at least appears on the outside of these press conferences to be a guy who’s going to go in over his skis. And I would say this for the 20 million bucks that they urinated away on the outfielder last year, half a million tickets, whatever that represents from a loss standpoint, is far greater than $20 million for them. And I keep thinking about Katie Griggs job, which is getting bobble heads on sale on, you know, before the pumpkin spice goes away, right? Literally, and where their revenue stream is, where their cable television is, where their renewals are, where they’re, you know, they’re selling blonde l Miller a package over here trying to get a million dollars a year for Todd and mark to go have a skybox or whatever. However that sales part goes in the offseason.

Speaker 1  36:03

It’s not like a normal business. Normal business is we sell so many pizzas here. We order this much sauce, we order this much dough. That’s how we run, run the business. Rubenstein’s going into this thing incredibly leverage at 1,000,000,008 no matter how much money you think he has or how wealthy he is, he’s begging too many people for too much money for me to just think this is like cab fare at 1,000,000,008 he’d like to lead you to believe that I have really rich people that would tell you, nobody’s liquid to 1,000,000,008 to be thrown around for a baseball team. So they’re in over their skis, while John Angelos is down in Nashville running around with the money. Literally, John Angelos is running around with that money, and they’re trying to figure out how to recoup it, how to get money out of the marketplace, how to find lawyers bigger than blonde Miller Shuler that may give them $5 million a year for their Sky box and their name on the scoreboard and their name on the Jersey. And like they’re trying to sell all of this stuff, and they get an empty stadium, an empty soul, a last place thing, a new manager, and we all want them to spend money, yeah, that they don’t have, and there’s no vision of where that money’s coming from from. Katie Griggs, vision of saying, What’s my certainty? Even with cable television, we don’t, they wouldn’t know what channel they’re going to be on next year, the year after that, and we’re still paying Tyler O’Neill 20 million a year. So I think industry wise,

Luke Jones  37:26

you haven’t even mentioned the strike, the near certainty of a lock lockout in 2027 the fact feels like this is very dangerous for missing Games

Speaker 1  37:35

8

time next year, we’re gonna have a very different conversation as to whether it’s Tarek skuble Or who, but pitcher we’re signing right? Because they have, they have an industry. We talked about AI being disruptive. They have an industry in major disruption from a media standpoint, an age, gender, national, Hispanic, Knight Katie here I am like trying to get affinity groups together and get people to games yet the agents want $50 million for my baseball player this offseason. And if you want Tyler O’Neill, it cost you $70 million to shop. $70 million for one player would be what Katie Griggs would look up and say, I’m hoping that we can increase our revenue by 70 million next year. Do you know what that’s going to take to increase our revenue by $70 million next year, cable television, yummy. How many crab hot dog things? Stan Jablonski is gonna have to bring his daughter into Baltimore?

Luke Jones  38:28

Gonna create a lot of interest, which is done by having a good offseason and signing,

Mike Ricigliano  38:33

signing exciting players. You know,

Speaker 1  38:35

like signing expensive, exciting players, because we’re into the expensive season now. We really are,

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Mike Ricigliano  38:41

i and i also you’re not giving Oriole fans or when we’re not giving Oriole fans enough credit. I mean, none of us were excited when they truck signed Tyler O’Neill or Charlie Martin last year. We know those. We know a guy that’s 42 or whatever isn’t going to be exactly that’s the one player that we were excited about was Corbin burns here in recent memory, from a from a signing standpoint. So they have to find someone like that again, I think. And it might be the outfielder, it might be, you know, someone like that that’s going to get fans juiced up for our Yeah, and our expectations up for next year. And

Luke Jones  39:18

this is where I always struggle, because I’m going to be the level headed nerdy baseball guy that will continue to say, yes, spending money, but needs to be spending money wisely, right? They spent a lot of money at various times during the Peter Angelos era, and they didn’t spend it very well. One of the highest profile off seasons I can remember was when they signed what Rafael Palmeiro, the second time around, Sammy Sosa and Javi Lopez, right?

Speaker 1  39:43

I forgot Vladimir Guerrero even played here. I saw a picture

Mike Ricigliano  39:46

8

of it like, yeah. I mean, it was great. Literally, forgot he was fantastic to me. Played here for crying. Also fantastic. Yeah, he played.

39:54

So there’s always that.

Luke Jones  39:56

But Satan needs an old timers me saying that I love. Okay, acknowledge, you know, going back to your point, you want this to feel different, and this, it’s funny, I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and, you know, I often cite that. You know, I was two weeks old the last time the Orioles won the World Series. And I have gray hair now, thinning hair, all that. I’m old, 42 now, and it’s no, I should have said relatively Mariner here. But I think back to when I was 10 years old. And it’s funny, because we’re talking about the Blue Jays being in the World Series, and I was 10 when the Blue Jays won in 93 and the Blue Jays were the Yankees to my my age, as far as baseball fans, you know, growing up as a kid, Paul Moller, he didn’t know and good from but, but I think about it in those terms. I think of growing up as an Oriole fan in the late 80s and early 90s. You know, 1983 was still fresh in many people’s minds, but to a 10 year old, it feel that might as well feel like it was a century ago, right? You’re, you’re how you feel about time is so relative, you know, depending on your age. Right now you think about when, when you’re 40, or you’re 50, or you’re 60. I mean, 10 years ago feels like 10 minutes ago, right, right? But it’s funny. I you know, right around that same time, in that era, Cleveland made it to the World Series in 1995 right? And that had been, what, 41 years since they had last won the pennant. 54 was the last time they’ve been to the World Series. 48 was the last time they had won it. And I can remember trying to contextualize that as a kid, and that felt like, oh my gosh, the Indians have been so bad for so long. It’s now been, we’re going on 42 years since the Orioles last won the pennant. I mean, one, yeah, they have been way closer to the Cleveland Indians for four decades now than anything resembling the Yankees Red Sox. So much of this, as much as you know, I try to be level headed and say, you know, you don’t need to have the highest payroll on baseball. You don’t, and you don’t need to spend some arbitrary amount of money to show your fans you’re trying to win because you don’t. But at the same time, enthusiasm does matter, branding does matter. Recruiting fans does matter, and that’s where I look at this offseason. And I don’t know if Mike Elias has the chops to do those things. We’ve talked we talked about this a lot as far as their messaging, going back to when Brandon Hyde was fired, right? And you and I think both agreed that, boy, they could really use a Larry Lucchino right now in terms of Rona, I’m not someone that’s going to make the baseball decisions, but someone that reminds michaelias that you need to see the forest for the trees, reminds ownership that was

Speaker 1  42:32

perceived as Sure, sure. And that’s that’s reality. Time

8

Luke Jones  42:38

to go back to my point here that you know that kind of rambling here, but it’s been 40 plus years now. You hear a lot in today’s society about my truth or your truth, or you know, and there’s subjectivity there, and there’s a contradiction there that kind of drives me nuts. But the truth of the matter is, this has been a very substandard organization for four, four decades now, save for a couple solid yet very fleeting periods of time when you’re talking about them, the mid to late 90s, with Pat Gillick and the Buck show Walter, Dan Duquette, era Other than that, man, there’s not a whole lot to write home. Why not 1989 right? Which, that wasn’t anything sustainable as a blip. So part of that is someone and this is the problem. When you have the angelos, people that have been retained, there’s just not nearly as much acknowledgement as far as the urgency to make this thing better. And you’ve talked about this a

Speaker 1  43:32

lot. Minute I met that guy, I said there’s trauma here, and he didn’t want to hear and he just didn’t

Luke Jones  43:37

want to hear it. And you just, you know, and look, and I’m not picking on Craig Albert Nestor, because he’s not the guy to do that. He’s He’s the field manager. He’s sitting next to his to two of his many bosses right there at the press conference. But he talked about the Orioles tradition, that traditions really freaking old at this point in time. And I don’t say that to be disrespectful and look Craig Albert as like some people picked on the fact he’s got a Massachusetts accent. Brooks Robinson wasn’t from Baltimore, and yet, few have ever epitomized the beauty of Baltimore sports and Baltimore sports athletes even southern draw. So it doesn’t even need to be that. But yeah, man, it just instead of, like, trying to sugar gloss over these last few decades, and look, I’m not saying they need to get in front of the cameras and just like, flog themselves, or any like, you know, it’s not anything crazy, but like, come on. Like, well, what makes I want to see more urgency? And it just feels like, feels like everyone’s way too comfortable considering what happened over this last year and how this new ownership group has already squandered a heck of a lot of goodwill in a year and a half. And I don’t say that meaning all is lost, but, man, there needs to be some urgency this offseason. I said that I thought that last year we were sitting here with Dave shine in six months, seven months ago, talking about the beginning of baseball season and how it felt like an underwhelming offseason. I didn’t think it was going to go as poorly as it did, but now. That it has man michaelias And this ownership group, they need to rise to the moment. Or I kind of shudder to think where this thing is going, because you’ve already lost two generations, a lot of people, and two generations of Orioles fans, potential Orioles fans in this greater region. And I think you’re just you’re gonna have more and more people that just check out and don’t come back, because we are increasingly in a niche society. Even when it comes to sports, the NFL is about the only thing that still consistently draws great numbers.

Mike Ricigliano  45:33

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And we wouldn’t have said that two years ago, you know, because we were turning that corner and we were like, Yeah, super excited that’s the same. It’s not salvageable, and assume that it would just go this way, you know. And never, never considered that it would go like that, you know.

Nestor J. Aparicio  45:47

Well, the last time you guys got together on my show was two years ago, right? And it was a completely different vibe. New owner, Corbin burns all of this stuff that was going on has been, to your point, squandered. I

Luke Jones  46:01

mean, yeah. And again, I’m not saying that this is all doomed, but man, like it’s you got to go. And it goes back to what I said about, you know, even in the micro when you’re talking about someone like Gunnar Henderson, you know, heck, even if you’re of the thought, even if ownership is of the thought, you know, let’s say arrogance. He thinks that they want to sign gunner Henderson, you better start winning, because he can get that he’s gonna get that money somewhere. He can get that money just about, I don’t want to say anywhere, there’s 12 different places, and get that money. So you better make yourself as attractive as you can be, so that when you’re ready to hand him that blank check, he says, Hey, we won the Division, or hey, we made it to the World Series. Or, hey, maybe we won a World Series Two years ago. I, I believe in

Speaker 1  46:45

this. Well, you’d say urgency to me, that means that you make news. You’re out in front. Sure people engage. It’s got to be they know how to do that, and they might not. I think they know how to do and they might

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Luke Jones  46:58

not. And that’s where I go to Okay? If you’re not going to make major headlines in the winter, then, yeah, probably your ticket sales are going to suffer. Not probably they will. And then you are completely dependent on winning then. And to your point, when is that going to show up? That probably won’t show up till Memorial Day. You know, if they get up, they start 20 and five. Okay, don’t get they’re not going to sell out the last week of April, when, if that happens, but, yeah, you’ll see a nice bump for the summer. But, well, the

Speaker 1  47:28

real bump now, dude, is your mother buying cable television in May. That’s the April month, and that’s right, because she likes the Orioles, and then it’s so difficult, and it’s $20 a month, and it’s June, and she had launched the games, and then she just put, like, from a revenue standpoint, that was just automatic revenue from my mother and Stan’s father and mother and Dundalk that just had cable. And it just, it was $40 a month that got sucked out of the Jablonski household, the mcgurgon house. Just all the money went to them. Now they have to go earn that money, post to post, person to person, house to house, account to account, subscription to subscription. There’s no way they’re not going to get less revenue. No way. And that’s one of the reasons they all want to walk out and fight next year, sure. And the reason the players want certainty and that there could be a salary cap maybe, if the Players Association thinks different than it did 50 years ago. But the revenue model for them, it’s, if I say Katie Griggs does not want to sit here talk revenue model with me. Neither does Mr.

Luke Jones  48:27

Money. Very cloudy. Because, I mean, even if things go very well on the field the next couple years, it’s very cloudy. It’s, it’s not to say it can’t go well in the future, but how you’re

Speaker 1  48:36

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going to get there people in this area to just literally open their app and start giving them 150 or 200 bucks a year to have the games. I think the problem, I think it’s how many people are really going to do that. I think you can

Luke Jones  48:50

get plenty of people to do it 20 bucks at a time, like like you can which, you know, mass in this past year, when they finally went to the direct to consumer model, you could do it $20 a month, or you could do it where they you paid for the rest of the season and they gave you 10 or $15 discount. But that’s but that is the problem, right you now, and cable and ESPN is dealing with this. I mentioned the YouTube to YouTube TV, right conflict right now, which has impacted me, Luke’s darkness. But I’ve gotten to the point now where, once football season ends, I don’t really need ESPN all that, all that the Terps are on big 10 Network and Fs one. I’m not big into the NBA until the last few months of the season, other than watching the Sixers, which, you know, I can I have means of being able to do that when you have a brother in law who subscribes to league pass and all that, but they’re very much to your point. It used to be everyone in the region got the Orioles got $3 from everybody that subscribed to cable TV or satellite. Now it’s boy. You better find just to, just to stay level with that, you’ve got to find one out of seven people. You know, one out of seven. Households to give you that, right? I mean, that’s

Speaker 1  50:02

the example I used, and I told this story in the air earlier in the week, Luke and I went, by the way, we’re six here, Luke’s here. We’re pizza, John’s, we’re eating pizza, eating french fries. All brought to you by the Maryland lottery, Raven scratch offs. Luke and I went to Toronto for opening day, and I cut my foot open walking around. My foot was a little dry, cold Toronto in March, and I was bleeding, and I didn’t feel like going to the game the second night, and I had to buy a ticket. He had a press pass, and we’re there, and he’s going and we are we. So he left, and I said, I’m staying a room and watch the game tonight, or I’ll go to a bar. I’ll go down to keg, you know, like in Toronto, right? Toronto, as you would admit, we’re seeing is just this giant, 4 million people. It’s a giant city, you know, multicultural and all this way big, giant buildings. You’ve all seen it last week in the World Series. What it looks like? You know, lovely place. So I’m in this city, this cosmopolitan city. They had a sellout on opening day, last place team that would go to the World Series five months later. We didn’t know. Friday night, I went out to get a couple of beverages after he left for the game five, 536, o’clock. I’m sitting in the bar, and I’m like, is the game gonna be on in here? They’re like, No, the game’s not on in here. The game won’t be on anywhere. I’m like, What do you mean? I’m like, so I have to go to the game, pay $18 walk eight blocks on a 40 degree night. I have to go to the game because they can’t get the game. They’re like, No, it’s on Apple TV. No bar will have it. No one will have it, but the Raptors will be on the Raptors will be on every television. And the Maple Leafs weren’t well that maybe they weren’t playing that night, but they weren’t playing

Luke Jones  51:32

although that start. I mean, like the NBA, there are games on Amazon, there are games on prime. Now that’s all, well,

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Speaker 1  51:39

I agree. On a Friday night, if I come into pizza, John, it’s a problem my family now, and there’s TVs here. Everywhere is football on here right now. There’s always a game on there’s always every pizza John’s, every bar, every restaurant, everywhere on the second game of the year, where you go to Costa’s, you go to all these sports bars, and they’re either scrambling or borrowing the bartenders Apple code to try to get it on one TV in the corner. People don’t care that much. They don’t care that much, and they didn’t care in Toronto. Now, game seven, everybody in the country, they’re all making it rain with $5,000 tickets for the World Series. But I’m telling you, the second night of the season, you couldn’t go anywhere in Toronto and find the Blue Jays on television. Tell me how that’s helping them. Tell me how dumb that is that if I were the Commissioner, I would have to step in and say, We can never do a deal that’s going to turn our sport off everywhere in the city, except for some subscription. And this is where I want to get personal on it, because I had a problem last week. Last Thursday, I flew to Nashville to see the Sheryl Crow Cameron Crowe symposium and the game was going on at the same time. Now, in a modern world, I get the game on my phone. I sit and watch the game. We do. I the struggle that I had and my kids in Amazon Prime and getting it down using the password, getting the 899 and the 1299 a month, right? I think I put my daughter in law into an 899 package if I don’t get off of that thing in the next 21 days, right? Like, literally, I had to get in, yeah, in order to get the game. And it’s the first time in my life I’m here. It’s my gig. I want to watch the game. Which game was it was a Ravens,

Luke Jones  53:22

sorry, which was, which was on Mar locally, but Right?

Speaker 1  53:28

Yeah, thought my daughter in law was in market. I had to activate my location in order to make it work. But because my daughter in law is registered, I don’t know either way, I literally got it working at 713, central time, like, literally when it came on. Finally, I’m like, I’m just gonna give them the effing money. Yeah, I’m just gonna give them the nine. I got to watch the game. And the feeling of that is to never let it happen again for me, never let it happen again that I get pinched somewhere where I have to give these companies, give Amazon $8 and start pulling my credit card out, and that’s maybe that’s an old guy thing. Young people don’t care about it enough to do I mean it, and they don’t have the finances to do it. So I just, I worry about their revenue model. And I really at heart, and I thought about this last week, I worry about their arrogance, because there’s an arrogance built in that you need it. You want it. It’s oxygen for Luke Jones to have baseball. And I’m telling you, Luke, you can look me in the eye. You’re in your 40s. When you get to be my age, you will care less about it. You will having done this professionally. And then you’re gonna say there as to whether it’s worth $200 a year, $400 a year, whether a concert’s worth 20 bucks last night or 100 bucks last night, or a beer, there’s going to come a cut off for all of it. And I think especially college sports, they’ve taken this for granted in a massive way. And baseball has been on the front end because the grim reality that you present. It of 42 years of substandard operating is their reality. They don’t believe that. They don’t acknowledge that behind closed doors. So, you know, denial is a river in Egypt, and they’re in denial. You know the fact that they don’t let me into their press conferences and they don’t want real questions. They’re in a different sense of what their responsibility is, after taking $600 million to kick you out of the press box and put you in left field and build a bigger scoreboard for everybody next year, because they think that’s what the fan, the Sashi Brown, had the audacio last week to say, we’ve listened to the fans. They want more premium. Yeah, right. Come on, dude, come on. Man, come on, man, come on,

Luke Jones  55:42

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I thought. And again, this, this goes beyond the Orioles, and this is happening in all the sports. I mean, it is. I mean, well,

Speaker 1  55:49

there’s a Katie Brown, but to your with a Harvard education and an arrogance that goes I thought, literally,

Luke Jones  55:55

it was. This was probably about two months ago at this point in time, Adam Silver, the Commissioner of the NBA, made such a fascinating comment. He said that the NBA is a highlights based sport. And I think to go back to what you mentioned, as far as your dilemma, as far as being able to watch the Ravens Game Two weeks ago on Prime look, so many of these games, especially talking about baseball. I mean, the Orioles haven’t been on over the air TV. And you know, you go back to the days of OS TV, when half the games are on Mar and wnuv and the other half are on home team sports. And, you know, sprinkle in a few ESPN Sunday night games. You know, you know what I mean. So, so we’ve paid for games. It’s just now it used to be one cable subscription or one satellite subscription. Now you need five of them, well, the if you want to go. So going back to what I was saying about, you know, the Adam Silver comment, I think these leagues would tell you, you know what, like they’re not going to say this. We don’t give a fudge. If you can’t, if you can’t easily access all 162 games, or all 82 games in the NBA or the NHL, or not so much the NFL. You know, that’s kind of the but. But even then, they’ll tell you, Well, hey, if you want to watch your team play on Christmas, you better have a

Speaker 1  57:10

Netflix different to that Thursday night last week. So everywhere I walked in Nashville, the game was more

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Luke Jones  57:15

exclusive product, because it’s the NFL. The NFL, it’s there’s more. They have a scarcity principle that they clean up on compared to so much product that these other sports have. But they would tell you the revenue is so much better for them overall, to do it that way that no, they don’t care if you end up skipping out on the Apple game, if it means they don’t care about you. Yeah, they don’t care about this goes back to my ESPN arrogance, right there, my ESPN TV conflict right now, they don’t need you. They, you know, Google, I mean alphabet. You’re talking about a multi trillion dollar company. It’ll give a fudge that YouTube TV doesn’t have ESPN right now. They might at some point in time, but they’re trying to keep their costs down lawyers and, you know, and Disney, on the flip side, Disney has, you know, ESPN now has their own direct to consumer package. They own Hulu live, their live TV package, and they just purchased fubo, another cable like streaming, live TV package. So that right there, makes me question right off the bat, whether Disney’s negotiating in any kind of good faith with Google. And as I said, like Google So, long story short, and bring brings it back to what I was just saying. They don’t care about us. Some people were they care about our wallets. And if they’re getting you know, if their bottom line says it’s way better to have a deal with Apple, even if Luke and Nestor can’t watch the Orioles for those three times a year, they’re going to be on Apple the

Speaker 1  58:42

Orioles gonna worry about your wallet? Sure. No. And look, this goes back to want your wallet. This goes back need your water. He put 1,000,000,008 out, and they’re upside down, and they’re hemorrhaging, and they have no business plan, and they’re about to go on strike a year from now. And other than that, I hope they have a hell of an awesome

Luke Jones  59:00

that’s why, and that’s why, and that’s why the 30 owners want to split up all that TV revenue equally. I mean, not all 30, the ones who get socialism, the ones who aren’t the ones who aren’t the Dodgers, the Yankees, you know, the the Select half dozen to 10, you know, 10 biggest markets, all the smaller, mid and smaller market teams. Yeah, they want to split

Mike Ricigliano  59:20

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that all up to go, to go to what you were saying, though it’s, it is partially about the money from our standpoint, but it’s partially from an old person standpoint. It’s a lot about the principle of the

Speaker 1  59:30

whole principle of the thing is like just explaining it. I hear your fan who gives them five grand a year to buy tickets, and I’m under Birdland because I got three kids and I go down there, just the fact that they don’t give me the games on TV and give me a login@orioles.com for my subscription that allows me to get every game anywhere anytime.

Speaker 1  59:54

Is it’s a bad model, dude. It’s a bad you go double dipping people that. My hot water costs one thing, and my cold water costs another. My shower costs different than boiling, dude, it’s water. Come on, stop, man. Like, like, you either want me to be a fan and you want my money and you want my access and you care enough to show me your product, or you’re going to put your product around a corner, behind a paywall, over the hill, and it’s going to be what’s happened, sadly, to the Baltimore banner and a lot of Baltimore Sun. I get a headline, but I don’t, I don’t go over the hoof because whatever. And that’s problem for journalism all the way around, paying for journalism, paying for sports, paying for adventures, paying for online things, and then the part where you give them your credit card and three years later they’re still soaking you. That’s the part. That’s the old guy for me, sure that’s the part for me is that, like, I don’t want, I want to fix cost, I want to and that’s not even me being old. That’s just me being fair as a consumer, to say I’m in on the

Luke Jones  1:00:53

Orioles, give me convenience, make it easy. Yeah, I mean, I think I might value that a little more than even the call pay more, right? We all pay more, and that’s where, and that’s where I laugh. As someone who cut the cord and has six different streaming services, it’s a pain in the butt sometimes to figure out what seems while I’m still saving more money than when I had a subscription to DIRECTV for whatever ungodly number it was at the end, before I finally said goodbye to it, it is a pain in the butt, and there is and with so much of this being splintered and fractured, and all these games are divvied up, they are training me as a consumer, as a fan of whatever sport I’m talking about, where there might be two or three Orioles games, where I’ll just listen to it on the radio and I’ll watch a movie, or I’ll follow it on my phone and I’ll see some to go back to Adam Silver’s point about the NBA, I’ll see the highlights on social media.

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Speaker 1  1:01:50

Or you could do what I do every Friday in baseball season and say, fudge that Apple TV. Sure. That’s what I say. I’m just not watching them

Luke Jones  1:01:57

tonight, and that’s that. And again, they there are people within that realm that would tell you, well, Apple’s given us a heck of a lot of money, and we think you’ll come back the other six days of the week. Now that that sounds arrogant, as you know what, but depending on the threshold, the NFL has been arrogant for decades now. Yet it’s working. They are overwhelmingly number one. How much the other sports can do that, where people will put up for it? I think that’s much more up for debate. And that’s not to say the NFL can do that forever, either. But you tell me, Luke, you got

Mike Ricigliano  1:02:29

anything else for Luke? No, sorry, I’ve talked way too much. Oh, I’m so happy you did Rage Against the Machine. That’s all Rage Against the Machine. All that said, I think sports and everywhere else,

Luke Jones  1:02:38

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I do think there is a path for the Orioles to have a really good offseason. But, boy, they’ve got work to do. They absolutely have a lot of work to do. And you have to hope to inspire some of your fans and galvanize some of your fans along the way. Because this has not been a good 18 months for the Baltimore Orioles when we all thought, you know, coming up on two years ago that they were really turning a corner, not just on the field, but off the field, and hasn’t felt that way ever since. It’s good

Mike Ricigliano  1:03:06

that there’s journalists like you guys out there that keep it all honest for all of us, just to keep us, you know, I try figure out what’s going on, you know, because it’s I

Speaker 1  1:03:15

have plenty of questions. If they ever want to come and answer them, I’m happy to I’ll be very polite to them, but they’re not gonna sit here and Bs me either. I’m not gonna allow that ravens scratch offs are available for the Maryland lottery. My man, we’re seeing my man, Luke Jones, you can find him in Baltimore, Luke, we’re down here pizza John’s in Essex. We’re gonna be taking the Maryland crab cake tour out for you know, is it figgy pudding and Thanksgiving meals and stuffing and probably some proper sauerkraut and kibasa before it’s all over with as well? My thanks to Todd Schuler and Bill Cole for stopping by earlier. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. Raven scratch offs also our friends at GBMC. Public Service Announcement, if you had a colonoscopy, I have have you had one?

Luke Jones  1:03:54

Several? 42 too young. 45 is probably going to be my recommendation, because my grandfather had colon cancer, so I’m

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Speaker 1  1:04:02

5070, mad at me. This is your first Yes,

Luke Jones  1:04:06

I don’t know if I’m say I’m mad at you, but it’s definitely well this, well, I’m your response Well, past time when you should have done

Mike Ricigliano  1:04:12

it. But what’s your date on your colonoscopy? Two weeks from Friday? So not 19/21, 21st yeah, I’ve got a biopsy on the ninth

Speaker 1  1:04:21

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now, let me say this. When they were scheduling this, the woman’s like, do you want the morning or the afternoon? Oh, I’ve heard about this. We’re doing the morning, man, through the morning because I can’t eat

1:04:30

anything. That’s right. Go for the more I’ve

Luke Jones  1:04:31

taken my mom a couple times when she’s had them and, yeah, the morning. Oh,

Mike Ricigliano  1:04:35

let me, can I just give you one quick colonoscopy story? That’s what I’m looking for. I need help. I did. You know, that’s all the prep. I need courage. I’m gonna leave the country. There’s all the prep for a colonoscopy like that you have to do. That’s the that’s the most difficult part. It’s just a pain, a pain in the you know,

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Speaker 1  1:04:50

my wife said, Read the instructor. I did, like I did all of

Mike Ricigliano  1:04:54

this. Got to the office, and the office was closed for my calling colonoscopy. I was. I was away for a while. They tried to contact me to tell me that the office had closed and I was away all the hard, heavy lifting. I know it was rough. That is a rough way to

Speaker 1  1:05:12

I can’t say I will be disappointed if they push off. GBMC is not going to do that. They won’t. So I appreciate them and appreciate all response. We’re back for more pizza, John’s. I got John Hoey here from the Y we’re gonna talk about the community turkey trot, speaking to the holidays. My man, Ron Cassie, is here from Baltimore magazine. I was gonna sit him down with you and talk baseball. And you

Mike Ricigliano  1:05:33

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I’m going, but Luke can stay here and

1:05:35

talk. Cassie wants to talk ball, man, he’s been riding bike and

Speaker 2  1:05:38

Morocco. I’ll watch a little other All right. I’m gonna step

Speaker 1  1:05:41

out take a break. We’re back at Pizza John’s. It is the Maryland crab cake tour. It is a Friday, and we’re having fun here. We’re pizza John’s, my favorite places. I’m between cheesesteak and pizza, but never french fries and gravy. Stay with us. Ha.