We survived the Angelos Era of Orioles baseball so what’s next?

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Allen McCallum and Nestor Aparicio were seated next to each other in visiting press boxes for the iconic Roberto Alomar ALDS home run in Cleveland and the Jeffrey Maier debacle in New York almost 30 years ago. They covered the team every day at the dawn of WNST until they were no longer allowed access. Now almost three decades later, they discuss the future of the Baltimore Orioles with new ownership of David Rubenstein and general manager Mike Elias fielding the best crop of players of our lifetime at Camden Yards.


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Nestor J. Aparicio, Allen McCallum

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are W NST Castle Baltimore, and Baltimore positive and am 1570. And we’re on the YouTube and the LinkedIn and the Facebook and Twitter and the Instagram and I’m we’re bringing the Maryland crab cake to our back out to my Peninsula. We’ve lost the Key Bridge, we’ve been talking at length about that and what it’s going to do to my community down in the peninsula and spares point not all areas. So fundraisers going on there keep rowing and Tiki Lee’s did theirs. I’ll be at Costas on the ninth the Red Sox are playing the Orioles at 2pm. I was doing this when the bridge was still standing. And I put this idea together back in February because I’m like, hey, it’s April 9, it’s a row game. It’s afternoon. It’s perfect for beer and crab cakes and all the good stuff that I love a Costas including giveaway some lottery tickets as well. So we’re going to be there on the night and then we’re going to be fade Lee’s on the 12th next Friday, every Friday before Oreo home games we will be live at fade these from 2005 and I mean live. I mean like if I gotta pee, I gotta go a long way. I think I just went to the new fadeless delicious, new shiny block closer to Oriole Park at Camden Yards. I will be there at 2pm with Luke Jones. Luke will be joining me from two until three live each and every Friday that there’s a home game, which will make it more fun for us, I guess. And so Luke gets sick of me but you know, it’s hard to get sick of winning baseball and the new and fresh Orioles. And other than Luke, I can’t think of anyone that I would rather be chatting with today. And I did you know it’s no, this is not an April Fool’s joke. It’s not a gag even though we’re recording this on April Fool’s Day. There’s new ownership. There has been a passing the torch has been passed. There is no John Angelos there is no Angeles. Although I must say I saw TJ Brightman on opening day I saw Lucas Soros running around in a suit I saw George stamas I saw all of the Angelo’s family people on opening day, but I also saw all four new dudes and 24 jerseys, one of which I actually met I met Michael era Getty. So I’m gonna say about meeting Michael Eric Getty at this point. But Alan McCallum is here. Alan McCallum if history serves me correctly join me sometime in the Cal Ripken run of 1995. After the strike that I endured with the help of Budweiser, Anheuser Busch and the winter distributing company in 1994 95, and George Acton and John Tao who kept me alive and fed with a 10 year old kid, I’m doing the 25th anniversary documentary of wn St. And now 40 years of media Allah McCallum we we freed the birds, you know, I, we literally I I don’t want to bring Martin Luther King into this, you know, but I want to bring free the birds into this and say we least freed the birds. They’re free. And like on opening day, a man in a suit. It was almost like the Willy Wonka slugger thing. A dude came to me. And we went for a little walk in the club level. He says, I worked for Mr. Rubenstein i I hear you’ve had some complications. And you know, so well. I have not opened the bottle of wine that I told you about two months ago, the prisoner I haven’t opened because I don’t have my press credential back. I’ve decided I’m gonna save that for my press credential. But nonetheless, how were you happy new year? I know you’ve had all sorts of family things and weird stuff going on. But you got to be pleased with the Orioles. This has got to be the best part of your life. Allen at this point, right. It


Allen McCallum  03:42

was late July, early August and 95 that we met Nestor. And less than a month after that we were I was on the field for you for the first time. So we’re just shy of 30 years coming up.

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:55

And Peter Angelos on the team the whole time. I didn’t know you before he owned that even though it was on the radio before that.

Allen McCallum  04:02

That is correct. And I in that time, and probably sometime, much beyond it. I can’t think of a moment for the Baltimore Orioles that was more exciting, potentially prosperous. And the view of prosperity looks to be bright for the foreseeable future. I can’t think of a moment in time that has been stronger than this for for the franchise. At least not in in my lifetime. I obviously I’m aware of the greatness of the Orioles from the late 60s into the 70s. I was a kid I was born in 72. So I was a kid during the beginning of that but in my adult lifetime. There has never been a moment like this at all. And if you’re not optimistic and excited about the possibilities for the future, I don’t know what else You could ask for

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:02


you’ve covered the team for the better part of a decade decade and a half around here you were here for the first radio station this time we got it back all of the stories of glory you’ve witnessed even though you’re not a football fan much at all. You know you’ve been here to witness what the city how it’s changed a lot of ways and all sorts of ways. Because you’ve lived here your west side on the east side we always met somewhere right around Towson. Never with cheese don’t don’t give Alan any Alan has not eat pizza. Not normal pizza like normal people like we eat

Allen McCallum  05:36

cheeseless pizza, such a weird cat.

Nestor J. Aparicio  05:38

That’s all like it, but you love staying and we love music and all that stuff. What what excites you the most? Like where can you write me the Allan McCallum essay If I Was Your bugging you on a daily basis taking phone calls I I mean, I don’t even know where to begin. And I I’m definitely having some really surreal battles with this, you know what I mean? With just all of it just, you know, it’s it all feels like it’s gonna be different. It’s not different yet it’s getting there. Certainly what we’re seeing on the field is exactly what you want to see.

Allen McCallum  06:14

I mean, honestly, what excites me most would be Mike Elias and sigma at all. The idea that we have management in place that clearly knows what they’re doing. They’ve done it before they apprenticed in other places. And now they are there in the lead with the reins off, so to speak, to do what they what they want. And so much of what they’ve done so far has really brought back nothing but but positive returns. That is a really wonderful thing to know you’ve management plates, look, players come and go. injuries happen. The greatest Adly rushman. And I’m certainly not hoping this happens could get collided with it at home plate tomorrow. And his career will never be the same. I mean, those things happen. But to have management in place that is intelligent, forward thinking, and seems to have a plan is really amazing. Now we haven’t we have new ownership. I’m certainly optimistic about David Rubenstein, but none of us knows what his stewardship of the team’s gonna look like.


Nestor J. Aparicio  07:27

I don’t want to give a Tinos because I’m not convinced he knows enough to know enough. Like and wherever the level of immersion would be that who’s going to be doing the hiring search for whomever is going to do whatever, because they certainly did not instill that day one. And as Luke predicted, that they would just play this out and just feel everything out. And I don’t know that that’s a great circumstance. I mean, I’m all for preaching patience, and understanding and all of that stuff. But I just feel like there’s some fundamental issues with the people that John Angelos employed on the business. On the baseball side, we’re one thing the people in the business side, I see a lot of empty seats still, and $9 tickets now. And the different philosophy of trying to get people to the ballpark, and just literally do communicating, right. I’m a communications person, I’m a communication specialist, I there I’d say I’ve communicated better than most anybody because I’ve been in the communication business for 32 years doing this. And, and I have real clear, concise communication and honest communication. And my communication comes with integrity. And you were the backbone and with the you know, like all of that I have a history of all that. Rubinstein didn’t have any of that he has no history of communication here. Like he’s new on to the boat, the Angelo’s thing was three decades of the worst kind of communication, and the people in front of it, who didn’t ever communicate it, they dictated they mandated there was an arrogance. I mean, the loss of business, the loss of fans, the loss of season ticket, we can go down the list of all of that, right, that that’s all true. And it all rears its head in the second game where there’s 30,000 empty seats again. And the possibilities are what are you going to do to get the momentum back? And I know it’s not all about Filling The Seats. But I mean, Luke went nuts. As we started talking business about the streaming side of things, and about how much for my cable bill, how much for RSM what’s the master plan? That that’s question one from Luke. That’s wild because Luke would say you go sit with Sashi brown last week down in Florida. You asked him about the $600 million, but I have more questions for David Rubenstein that he should want to answer and do it concisely and clearly with good questions and long answers and ideas for the $600 million for baseball development for Hey rutschman Henderson money burns. Burns is out there looking like an ace Rodriguez looking like guys. I spent the morning talking about the The Atlanta Braves and Glavine and Smoltz and, and Madison, like keeping that kind of pitching around when you have that kind of pitching. And we’re two games into it, right? I mean, we’re one time fee the rotation. But boy, there’s a lot to answer here and a lot to speak of that Jana Marie Smith, I’m talking about painting the stadium down in Sarasota that’s falling apart. After 15 years, there’s a lot of things that are going to cost money that John has let atrophy. To your point, the lead story is Elias, my Dell, and the baseball bunch, they’re gonna win games now. How do we win the hearts of getting people back and getting whatever spirit was broken? And trust that was broken with the Angelo’s family with everybody? How does that return, and be wrapped real nice and an orange wrapper.

Allen McCallum  10:49

So obviously, there’s a ton there all, it’s valid. And let’s be clear, his management group has his own the team and run the team for less than a week. So there’s no doubt about it. So let’s, let’s let’s get let them take a breath and sort of assess the situation. I’m never a fan of management that comes in and make sweeping changes without even looking over the landscape. I like to see see people that come in, look around, see what works, see what doesn’t work. And look, it’s like any presidential regime, right? You, you can’t take everybody out of position instantly, there needs to be a steady transition so that the jobs continue to be done. So that that’s part one. The other part and we’ve talked about this before, that the cities since COVID, the process of how people exist within them has changed. People don’t work in in cities do the same way they used to. So there isn’t the same population that’s like, I’m 10 minutes from the ballpark. Let me walk down after work, meet some friends have businessman special

Nestor J. Aparicio  11:58

where downtown was loaded with 100,000 people and you’re trying to get 10,000 of them to play hooky on a nice day. And come eat peanuts. Exactly.

Allen McCallum  12:07

It’s so much of that doesn’t exist anymore. The infrastructure, the Cuban infrastructure is different. So this isn’t an Oreo problem. This is a sport a major sports franchise problem. How do you get people down to the city in the situations? And then you Luke are absolutely right. I mean, I haven’t had a cable subscription in six years. And whether I have an MLB package or what have you, I have streaming services that give me basically anything I want from cable except massive, and that we live in a streaming age when you can get anything in terms of entertainment. And it is like breaking into Fort Knox to get the Orioles on your home screen unless you’re willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money to a cable company that cable companies that are basically antiquated at this point is mind boggling to me. And again, that’s a that’s a that’s a major league baseball issue. That it the regional sports networks. I mean, so much of what the offseason was, We’re seven to 10 teams in the sport, having to deal with the potential bankruptcy of their various regional networks and how that was going to impact them being able to spend money on players mean, Texas, Minnesota, San Diego, these are all teams that have been contenders rotate. Texas Rangers are the world champions. They didn’t know what kind of money they had to spend because they didn’t know what their sports friends welcome

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:45

to the Washington Nationals were all for 18 years.

Allen McCallum  13:49

I’m sorry, Nestor. I don’t want to hear that when when the Nationals came here. It was agreed to that the Orioles would have control over mass and that for the last decade. There’s they’ve been fighting about this is just it’s we disagree about this major league baseball made an agreement with the Orioles and they’ve been trying to break it for the last decade, which to me is bad faith. But ultimately, what Washington has in Baltimore doesn’t have is access to the wealthiest part of the of the region in northern Virginia and DC and the Orioles had access to that free for 30 Year 40 years before the Nationals came back. So there was a reason for how that got distributed the way it was. Ultimately, David Rubenstein has a huge amount of have in his group have a huge amount of of issues to tackle. Some that are sports related, some that are city and state related and some that are just in different terms of communication in terms of broadcasting. Those are huge issues that need to be dressed in and decided upon? Well, there’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:02

several businesses here above and beyond winning baseball games, you know, there’s local business, there’s national business, there’s a cable business, there’s just, I mean, just the food in the ballpark, the set the Sarasota experience, the gambling thing, the city and the land thing, the game experience and pregame experience, like all of that, and really trying to deodorize 30 years of really, really lousy, lousy, everything. Lousy ownership, lousy messaging, lousy baseball, lousy community, sorry, like, just lousy. And it’s, my letter to him, is real simple. Like, it’s not hard to do better. I mean, really, it’s, it’s really going to be easy to do better. But don’t let that stop you from doing your best. Because we all want this to be great. And I told his representative that on opening day, I said, I only think called Baltimore positive. I live here ask anybody that knows me. My challenge was always that I wanted it to be better. And I became the complaint department or radio station for 115 70 became the place to call and complain about whatever you were pissed off about. But the Orioles because they didn’t take your complaint call. They said there are no complaints Siddhanta Shut up. And, and oh,


Allen McCallum  16:34

by the way, with all of this, the Orioles are arguably the best young franchise in the sport. And almost everyone has predicted them to win the Al east.

Nestor J. Aparicio  16:44

There’s so many reasons to come and engage with the team right now. They’re really

Allen McCallum  16:48

well, I mean, watching them, yeah, they lost the last game. But watching them at their, at their height in those first few games is really eye opening, in terms of what the potential for these clubs would be, no, they’re not gonna score 11 or 12 runs every night. And then I don’t think anybody’s expecting that. But to see how they click to see the confidence and how they execute well, 98% of the time. Those things are, that’s where you build. And if there’s anything to build around. I mean, I’ve said this, it basically as long as I’ve known you, the only way to be a good owner of a franchise is to spend money, hire good people and get the heck out of the way. And he’s already got to people. Whether he spends the money and gets out of the way and does the business side, which he says what he’s planning to do. I mean that if he sticks to that, then in theory they everything should be fine. But yes, there’s a lot of work. And ultimately, you have to climb the hill to be the best and the Orioles are look to be capable of climbing that hill but they have to do it. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:58


can’t marry in the business side to the baseball side and saying they’re all geniuses and so you have to pay them market rate. And that’s what changed here in the 70s with Jerry off burger who would have loved if kept Bobby Grich and dog to senseis and Reggie Jackson and bet bandana that down the line right? couldn’t pay them into the 90s. We were the team for five minutes when Peter bought the team and it was delivered with three and a half million people in it and sky boxes that were sold before he left it all up before he got Albert bell like on and the steroid era. And like all that that happened during his watch that first the last half of the first 10 years from 96 201. We watch them play themselves into a small market play themselves into 20 years later, you think that Major League Baseball was screwing him when the whole thing was terrible. But to to to Peter’s credit that his son got $1.7 billion last week out of the deal out of the transaction. So Peter one right, the Angeles family won, and they they paid in times what they paid. The first thing that Rubenstein said is I gotta fix Masson and so the only thing that that that made the thing profitable for them that they soaked in was that cable television money for two decades. And it’s still not even sorted out so but I would say to you that all of this growth happens when their seats get full. And when sponsorships get sold. I mean I’ll continue to say that you can play the poor little Baltimore angle and DC as more money and we don’t know what we’re going to do with our Masin and like all of that, at some point. More people here. You meet people will love baseball asked me how much money I gave the Angeles family since 2006. Seriously, I mean, like less than $500 and I’m talking about buying playoff tickets. Like I did. I never ever gave him money. I never spent money. I never went in there. I Are you now bad he was Alan honest to God. Chris pica offered to transfer me a ticket on me days wife took al Qaeda hope you’re doing better. And I said, Sure. And he said, Send me your major league baseball login. And I’m like, I haven’t bought a baseball tickets since 2015 that I’m aware of. When I went on tour, and I did 30 ballparks and 30 days. I bought some tickets, but I even bought those on the street. You know, just give me I bought a ticket for $1. In Colorado, literally, I paid $1 I went in. But I don’t have an account. I don’t. I’ve never bird landed, I get their emails. But I’ve never done any of that. And then I bought a ticket on SeatGeek for 40 bucks at 230. On opening day, right? And I walked up and I couldn’t get the Ticket to Work. Because they don’t have the Wi Fi right. You can’t download anything at the stadium during the game. Five minutes where the like, I’m trying to get my ticket and I got no, I got no Wi Fi right.

Allen McCallum  21:04

Yeah, you need to network, you need to network down there. Yeah,

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:07

so that doesn’t work. So I went up to the gate. And then nice man, Scott was beautiful. He printed my ticket for me looked me up. And I’m like, I can’t get the Wi Fi to get my ticket. This is like, this is an operations nightmare. If they imagine if there were more people there they couldn’t get in. So I’m just saying but they were nice to me, let me in. But these are issues that like the Ravens had this problem. I couldn’t tweet for my seats for years, because they didn’t have enough horsepower to make my Wi Fi work, which is why my wife’s in the other room engineering at this point, and trying to make all that stuff work. But the notion that like I don’t even have an account to have a ticket, they should want me to have an orange club, my wife and I love baseball. We’ve loved baseball our whole lives, my family, my cousins and all the fame. I did 30 ballpark I am a I am a prime prime person that they should be trying not just that but social influencer all the stuff you’ll find out and about in the document because no one listens. Alan, everyone hears. Oh, yeah, yeah. So But nonetheless, I’m a person that should at least have an account and I have a royal farms account. I just got some fried chicken the other day, my my points. My wife was pissed. She had 400 points. So why is markets on the rewards? We didn’t get the ham. So I don’t know what we should have gotten a hand. So like I’m telling you, I’m a Marriott Rewards. I’m southwest. I booked points today to go out to Vegas. So like I am a rewards member. Give me a club and let me join because I love orange and black. And Peter doesn’t own the team anymore. I’m ready to come back. Mr. Rubenstein, I’m ready to come back TJ Brightman, I told him that I saw him, I’m ready to come back and be a part of this. But I got to be a media member. That’s number one, because I am and I’ve earned the right to be there. And if you’re transparent, you should want somebody they’re asking me what you’re doing with the $600 million. what the plan is for Sarasota. what the plan is for streaming, how you’re going to unravel Masson. And also I can go over as Mike Elias, you know who he’s going to trade for to track and do all of that. But there should be more people holding them accountable. Because this is how you’re going to change the city. You’re gonna change the city by being held accountable by people like me who love the city. And we’re going to ask questions, and you’re going to be a right guy. And you’re going to stand up and you’re going to say, I didn’t buy this team just to win a championship and to make money and to sell it for 3 billion, although that’s nice, but we have to build it in order to sell it for 3 billion. We need to get more people here and make more money. But the real story, Alan, and I’m going to beat you and everybody up about this is this is our rutschman Get signed. This is how the payroll goes from 75 million to 200,000,004 years from now is when there aren’t 11,000 people on a sleepy Sunday on Easter. And my wife’s like it’s Easter you can’t expect anybody to be there. Well, it’s Easter you could expect people to be there. Like you know, maybe you could maybe you could get 35,000 There only I don’t know, but like they need to sell tickets, they need to sell sponsorships they need to meet to have a Major League Baseball thing and you too and they need everybody in on buying gear buying stuff going to the ballpark spending money buying sponsorships having love for them. Like they need that in order to afford Jackson holiday they do they really really do.

Allen McCallum  24:23

So let’s talk about this yes, you want to sign your players but you also have to be smart about it. And you know, when I started working for you the long term contract for for a great player was five to six years for


Nestor J. Aparicio  24:44

30 million cow

Allen McCallum  24:47

but by the time was probably 75 million and it has exploded I remember and I’m gonna sound old let me Come sunny let’s pull up to the fire out Got my rocking chair while I tell you the story. He

Nestor J. Aparicio  25:03

used to be young man, we were young, I swear we were I know, I’ve hit the home run in Cleveland. We were young when Jeffrey Mayer stole the ball. And we’re sitting together in 96. We were just 28 years ago. I

Allen McCallum  25:15


was 24 years old. Yes. But I remember reading in the newspaper. So in the Baltimore Sun, someone had written an article, who’s going to be the first $10 million year player. And they were speculating that he’s going to be Ken Griffey, Jr. I mean, I remember that. And now, they’re players that are getting $700 million, on paper, at least a guy who I’m sure it’s gonna be a great pitcher, who had never thrown a pitch in Major League Baseball got $300 million. I mean, it the money is outrageous. So you have to ask your question to ask yourself the question. And we’ve seen it made me for the first time in this offseason with the Boris for these quality players who couldn’t get contracts, not because they haven’t had good seasons, but because they were inconsistent to various degrees. I don’t want to give this person that kind of money for that kind of time, because I don’t, I’m not certain that they’re going to be what I’m paying for. And when you it was easier to do it when it was $100 million for a contract. And now that it’s approaching half a billion dollars for above average players that great players, but above average players. A smart franchise is not the one that’s just throwing money around. I’m not saying that the players we have aren’t going to be great. But I am asking the question, do you give 10 years to Adley rutschman as a catcher, which is arguably the most volatile position other than pitcher on the field, where you could get run over your career. So if your career ends? Do you give a 10 year contract to a pitcher? I know I wouldn’t.

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:03

Well, the Royals just gave 288 million Bobby wit Right. Like, you know, so and they don’t have the money. Right? So

Allen McCallum  27:10

Bobby wit, Gunner, Henderson, Jackson holiday. Those are players that you arguably take a risk on. It makes sense to sign a player like that when they’re young before the money goes up. Totally, totally on board with that point

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:27

is the money has to come from somewhere. Absolutely. You.


Allen McCallum  27:31

It’s not that you don’t make any decisions. It’s not that you throw them away. It’s about making the decision about who you want to who is the smart bet. You always have to have risk. I I’ve heard a lot of analysts talk about how risk averse the Orioles have been through the Angeles era. And I there’s no question. That’s true. You have to take risks to be successful. I think any business person, any owner of a sports franchise, any general manager will tell you that. The question is who do you take risks on? You don’t I don’t think you sign a veteran guy entering his 30s in a non steroid era, arguably, to a 10 year contract because the returns will be diminishing. And even if you do defer contracts, that means you’re gonna be stuck like the Orioles are with Chris Davis, like the Mets or with Bobby Bonilla. Paying these guys into there

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:28

are three owners deep into this, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

Allen McCallum  28:31

So I mean, you you’re, it’s about making the smart bet, making the smart risk and deciding what you’re going to do.

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:39


Thanks a mess when they’re playing baseball games in Oakland still after what they did with Montreal and Sanders, like they never learned their lesson. They they always have a black eye of some kind in some way. And then the Otani gambling thing, which I mean, we’re 30 minutes into this we haven’t even brought that up that that thing would have come here had he been an angel this week, right? And it isn’t but it is and I had Jana Maria on out in LA and I’m like, What am I gonna ask you about that? Because like, What do you mean no, like, and now they’re gonna build a new stadium to write in LA like so there’s all sorts of things going on in the baseball side of things that have nothing to do with the tectonic plates here. And yet we have so much to focus on here with the new owner, that will affect all of that and all of that revenue as you pointed out, they don’t none of these teams know where all this cable money that has funded all of this literally that a $15 beers and you’re gambling money and Skybox money and new stadiums and free rent. All of that is how the salaries gone from Cal Ripken making 6 million to Otani making 60 million right like that’s what happened, but it’s coming out of our pockets and at some point if they want to grow that revenue here, this bet the new owners are going to grow the revenue that is going to have to come from a local source. A lot of local stores Since a lot of people, a lot of businesses that fork over a lot of money and then feel that value, the value of the investment of their time, love, loyalty, money, etc. If

Allen McCallum  30:14

the Orioles could find a way to take mass and and put it on an app and say, Don’t worry about cable, buy this app, monthly annually, what have you,

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:25

it would not make enough money to fund Adley rutschman Valet for he wouldn’t fund his translator. That’s what I’m telling you, dude. Like, if there’s 100,000 people that are willing to give them $200 A year, do the math on that. And that’s the number whatever that number is. That’s the number it’s not. Little Old Lady lives in a cottage who doesn’t know what baseball is, is going to be giving us $36 a year, and we’re gonna have it for under 1000 of those. That’s, that’s all gone. The

Allen McCallum  30:58

companies that come to you to advertise on that app is what’s going to fund everything you’re talking about. I mean,


Nestor J. Aparicio  31:06

what is that restricted? Like the Baltimore banner where like, their stories are there and nobody can read them? And there’s a paywall, because that’s a different kind of advertiser, I promise you,

Allen McCallum  31:15

I will tell you this, having worked in the nonprofit arts, my entire adult career.

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:24

In your world, they asked for money philanthropically period to take

Allen McCallum  31:27


but the point is that the tickets the ticket, the cost of a ticket alone does not fund the events. Well, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:32

mean, you’re you’re in an industry of GoFundMe, and baseball has been in the industry of the cable TV will fund us and the city will fund us, and the state will fund us and everybody will give us money. But then the customer has to come out and get these payrolls with beer money and people that that make you the Giants and not the A’s, for lack, I mean, that’s pretty dramatic. But that’s true. Right?

Allen McCallum  32:02

It’s, it’s an equation that neither you or I are going to solve right now. But yeah, that is one

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:08

that David Rubenstein just bought him for $1.7 billion, that I can have a seat at the table and be pretty smart about and also saying be really dumb about like, I don’t know how this is gonna work. But I know you better get me in the club. Because if I don’t buy any of it, if I don’t have the games on my television, it’s it’s the same thing. I said, the Chris Corman from the banner, if I don’t have your product, I don’t have access to your product, and you put up the it’s going to cost me $2.50 to ride it. I’m either going to pay it maybe or not peacock when the playoff game was on. And you know, from Luke’s perspective, look at my wife. My wife is a Verizon employee. We have Verizon cable television. So I have Verizon that I have 500 billion channels, I talked to my remote, it doesn’t listen to me. It’s like I don’t watch a whole lot of TV. You know this, I’m not a movie guy. We’ve been through this, but you me and Max wise. So. But all that being said, I have the gains. But if I didn’t, if I didn’t, and I had to start over again. And I moved to a cottage in Ellicott City. And I said I want the games and my wife’s not choosing cable television. How would I get the games, I’d be pretty pissed off if I had them five days a week. And then they flipped me the bird on this peacock that I have to get on Friday. And then I gotta get the apple sticky stick. And then I gotta get the Amazon sticky stick. And then I got to worry about the Paramount’s and the Disney’s and like all of this stuff to me. I’m just vomiting on you right now. Because I don’t even know what any of it means. Because I’m not buying any of it. Netflix. I don’t have any of it. I don’t I don’t have Apple Music. I don’t have Spotify. I don’t have any of it. Any of it. I’m 55 and I know I’m not hip anymore because I was an air supply last week. Okay. And a little river band. So I know I’m not hip. All right. I mean, I went to a symphony last month with Sting. So I know I’m not hip. But I do know they better figure it out. It’s all white people. It’s all old white people. It was that I walked around Fort Myers. I mean, it’s what it is. And they better figure it out. Because whatever the plan is, now that Angelo’s has gone, like get my press credential back and people are nice to me. I want to understand it for everyone like me, because I really do think the model five or 10 years from now is going to be Oh, you’re an Oreo fan. Are you a 500 ollar Oriole fan? Are you $1,000 What club are you in? It’s like the Maryland club. And if you want the games on TV, it’s a minimum $500 A year thing but you get a shirt you get a hat you get a flight deck seat to come down to a game and you get there then you get this or that or that and you get flight points and when I’m there Chris pica was bragging about his points at the game the other day that he got a he had never had an ekiben neighborhood bird he got one at the stadium delicious local squires is there and having a local pool People and he got like he said, I got this in a beer for $13 Because I’m a man I got a 25% off Birdland Dream Land member, I don’t know what it is. But I’m like, well, that’s where the television is gonna have to come right. Yeah.


Allen McCallum  35:16

It’s a it’s a crazy interweaving puzzle. And yeah, it’s, it’s something they have to figure out there I will tell you their ways around not having cable. Oh, Luke

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:29

already went through broken IP addresses and stealing like all his friends to a Pennsylvania like literally I mean they got that to deal with too. But at some point, they have to put it in front. The new ownership and it’s fine. I mean five days in you got time day. Yeah, team’s gonna win a lot to get you got time. But at some point, the way to the promised land of winning is going to be good business. Yes, that that I mean that that’s I don’t want that to be lost in all of this. Because you don’t want to be Tampa Bay. You don’t want to be 1000 people, and we win some of the time and we watch all of our players go play for the Yankees. That shouldn’t be the goal. It was never the goal. When Angelus bought the team. He turned that into

Allen McCallum  36:15

that. Well, let’s be clear about this. Good franchises, don’t hold on to players forever. You don’t want as much as you love Cal Ripken. In this day and age, you don’t want a 38 year old guy runner even wants 538 year old guys running around because they get hurt and you don’t win. So as much as you sign the players that you want to keep, you still have to keep your minor leagues filled. You still have to have your spend a crazy amount of money in your scouting Department and in your development department to get new guys to replace your players. And this is it. This is a sticking point for for Baltimore Orioles fans. We as a as a fan base have to get more used to letting guys go. Because when you hold on to them too long, you get a lot of doddering old players that can’t play anymore. So a healthy pipeline of players coming in to replace the people that you love is of all the people that I’ve heard for the last week since they announced that Jackson Holliday wasn’t going to break with the team. People have lost their minds about it. Why? He’s 20 years old. He’s barely played a year in the minor leagues. I don’t care how much natural talent he has. He may be the best player that’s ever played on the team. It cannot hurt him to spend another month in the minor leagues, honing his craft getting getting better at playing second base, which he’s barely done. Looking at lefties whether or not he hits a homerun in his first at bat against the lefty or not. What Why is that a bad thing? And by the way, as soon as he gets up here, his clock starts going. And just like Manny Machado I said this when when they did this with manna, Charles like people as many people want that one of them to get here now. We’ll be lamenting that he’s gone so quickly. And I guess we certainly hope that that he signs but then there are other questions like Connor Norby has been in the minor leagues for two, three seasons now. And he’s played very well, particularly in the last year and a half. He was in line first, should he get a chance to play Jordan Westberg, Kobe male, these guys?

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:33


These are promises organizations never had you and I in 30 years have never had these kinds of conversations.

Allen McCallum  38:40

There are things there out there other players that we also need to find out about, we sort of know or we think we know about Jackson Holliday. I want to know what kind of norm he’s gonna be. They’ve got him playing the outfield. Now he’s he’s a second baseman.

Nestor J. Aparicio  38:55

The more they show this stuff off, the more they get by pitching when they need it in July, because they’re going to need it. And

Allen McCallum  38:59

to do that you need to you need positions on the field. And maybe that means Jackson Holliday stays down for a little bit longer and that’s okay. That’s okay. It doesn’t have to be right now all the time. So there, yes, there are as much as all the other things out and around. There are things on the field that has to be decided who gets the contracts? How much are we willing to spend? How are we going to keep our pipeline healthy and fluid with young players? We have a wealth of talent right now. How do we give these players an opportunity to either play for the team or be showcased so they can go play for someone else and we can get what we need? And I think the Orioles are going to find out fairly quickly. Their biggest weakness right now is the bullpen. So yeah, there’s a lot to figure out just on the field not even not even the myriad of things we’ve talked about that have nothing to do with the white wall but what goes on between the white lines and Camden Yards. I


Nestor J. Aparicio  39:56

want to Callum is here. He will continue to be here. He’s been here for 30 years ago, I’m not getting rid of them yet. You know, people keep asking me if I’m getting my press credential back. I said, maybe I get I don’t know, I haven’t asked these people. I haven’t talked about it. But you know, part of that for me is also my investment right to say like, alright, they’re gonna let me come down and ask questions. I will probably would have been there Sunday because Alan or excuse me, Luke wasn’t there because it was Easter Sunday, Luke goes through a lot of games. I’d love to be a part of it. Right? Like, it’s that recruitment part of when I met you, there was never thought that I wouldn’t be a part of it, right? Like how awful these people would be and how long it would go on and how we’re old now and gray and I’m going to air supply concerts.

Allen McCallum  40:41

And you went to me in the clubhouse. My first day, introduced me to, to, I think, Bill Stefka that some in some of the various Oriole players, and you walked me into the visitors are visiting clubhouse to show me around, you gave me phone and said okay, go do it. And that was basically my indoctrination. And then you had to figure it out. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:03

Alan, this is cow cow. This

Allen McCallum  41:06


is Alan. Yeah, basically, right. So yeah, there. We could do

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:10

that. I probably probably walk you read and introduce you to every guy in that locker room. Right. I

Allen McCallum  41:15

think Chris Moyles might have been the first person you introduced me to. Yeah, it was a good bunch of guys. That was that was a good bunch guys back in that day. But yeah, it’s it’s it’s hard to cover team if you can’t, if you can’t get into the into the clubhouse and on the field, there’s no question about that. Well, I’d like to

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:35

report on it accurately and with some wisdom and all the years of seeing this and they either want that or they don’t but I’ll be here doing it either way, but it would be a lot more fun to be part of it. And I made that clear. And I always wanted to be a part of it. But I wasn’t. My integrity wasn’t gonna get dragged into it. As you well know. So Tom Libero came on last week, he told if you haven’t read that piece, or seen the piece he did with me about how Andy Van Slyke got here from a night of him out with Angelo. It’s like crazy stuff that happened during that era. But I remember being in the, in the the manager’s office when Johnny Oates lost his mind because Peters kids called down and wanted, you know, Chris Saibot bench for Leo Gomez. So feels like yesterday, but it does feel like 30 years ago now. It’s all over with Alan except me opening the prisoner. That’ll happen if I get my press credential back and look on April 1. On Monday, I wasn’t going to go out and say anything, because like, it would be perceived as a joke if I set it to happen. So even if it happened on Monday, I would mention it till Tuesday. But I do hope I get to go back it would be it would be enlightening, and it’d be so much to learn. I talked to Jeff Montgomery this week, because he’s in town and owns a radio station in Kansas, my friend for 30 years. And I said no, there’s so much it’s such a different game. And the way it’s talked about and the way it’s there’ll be so much for me to learn on the inside if I wanted to do it well again, you know, absolutely.


Allen McCallum  42:58

Yeah. Look, I haven’t been down there on the regular covering the team in a long time. But there’s no question the world has changed. No question about that. Oh,

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:09

the days of the cell phone and the 900 Mega five megahertz working in the little box that we gave you right remember all that stuff? I remember when I got my bill from Bell Atlantic every month from my ballpark phone 5476105 I believe was the number. Look that up. I am Nestor. He is Alan McCallum now the baseball is back I’m gonna bother you more often. And you know, it, it’s it’s it’s a joy to have live long enough to see whatever the other side of this is going to be. And whatever the side of the Inner Harbor and the parking lots and whatever the next thing that’s, that’s going to be especially after we lost the bridge last week, I think a lot of us have had to think about these sort of iconic things that that they’re not forever. And we’ll be talking a lot about the resurrection of Baltimore, Maryland, Alan McCallum so you can find Alan anywhere as he is on social media. He’s hiding usually at a show. We’re in DC and doing Kennedy Center stuff at a person pop up with Kennedy Center Honor tickets two weeks ago and said, I got one left. And I’m like, figures I’m in Sarasota today. So you know, I think you meant Mark Twain is probably Mark towards the Mark Twain is that what was that? That’s two weeks ago? Yes. Two weeks ago, Sunday was able to

Allen McCallum  44:23

watch eight days ago David Rubenstein was on my stage eight days ago with with with the Mark Twain prize. So I

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:32


was in I was in Orlando having lunch with my brother who lives in Orlando and his beautiful daughter and his wife. And I saw my phone is like 430 afternoon. I have one extra ticket Kennedy Center Honors and I’m like, because I’m in Florida when this goes on, you know, and it wasn’t even you but Mark Twain. Hey, listen, if it’s a rough day if David Rubenstein said it’s good enough for him for me he owns the Orioles. You know, I

Allen McCallum  44:56

heard that. Let me tell you something there. There’s something And that I enjoy being of both the analog and digital age. I think it gives in the internet seconds now you’re just it’s actually the internet age that having the perspective of both sort of grounds you in a way that I don’t know.

Nestor J. Aparicio  45:17

Young people should understand it and respect it more. That’s all I’m gonna say. And that really makes me old.

Allen McCallum  45:21

Right? Absolutely.


Nestor J. Aparicio  45:25

The fact that I have a Baltimore Colts belt buckle over here, and that I lost the football team, and I had the owner of the Baltimore Ravens who was once in my home, and, you know, I sung his high Hosannas run literally run for me, and the general manager run for me on the porch of the Ritz Carlton in Orlando that I’ve lived long enough for that to happen. Two days after Peter Angelos dies, and two days before the new owner takes over. And we lost the Key Bridge in the middle of all of it. I was up in the middle of the week, Allen, it’s been a crazy week, man, that’s all I’m gonna say.

Allen McCallum  46:01

I was up in the middle of the night, it was 130 and I started seeing posts on social media that the Key Bridge went down. And I certainly haven’t gone over this meant as much as probably some people but it’s, it’s been in the background in my life as a Baltimorean just like everybody else, and to see the tragedy. And just the sense that something you think is going to be there forever, can be taken away in in the blink of an eye is as sobering as anything you can you can experience and I

Nestor J. Aparicio  46:38

haven’t been able to look at it yet. I haven’t driven by I haven’t looked up in the sky to say like I haven’t been able to do it yet. I have my plane came in the other way. And I’m kind of it’s been a week almost. And I’m kind of like it’ll come to me you know, I will be driving over there and I lose my ish. I will be the guy pulled over on the side of the road

Allen McCallum  47:00


set open. And ultimately the country is going to find out how integral Baltimore is to it. Because of losing access to that port.

Nestor J. Aparicio  47:09

Damn you an hour into this you get me choked up. What can’t you what you did to me?

Allen McCallum  47:13

It’s it’s an intense experience. No question.

Nestor J. Aparicio  47:16

We got to take a break. haven’t talked about it all dabit talking baseball and hope and stuff and April Fool’s stuff in music. And did I tell you how good air supply was? It was it was really good. Alan McCallum is up in my music friend and my baseball friend for a long, long time. Dude, we gotta get together. We got to talk about the Black Sox Memorial thing too, because it had that going on last month too. So we’re definitely going to do that. I am Nestor. We are wn st am 15 $70,000. Now that baseball is back I get to call my baseball nerd friends and nerd out about baseball. We might even go to a game. Stay with us.

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