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When the bats go cold in New York…


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After a Nestor Cortes loss to begin a key series with the Yankees in The Bronx, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the long-term realities of the starting rotation for the Orioles as the injuries show up and bad blood begins to boil with New York over injuries to Jordan Westburg and Aaron Judge on Tuesday night.


orioles, pitching, povich, yankees, good, starts, series, rotation, suarez, pitchers, baseball, rodriguez, play, bullpen, season, number, yankee stadium, starter, kramer, tuesday night


Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are wn st am 1570 tasks in Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively taking the Maryland crabcake door out on the road, hopefully with a different result than we had on Tuesday night when we gather on Thursday. At cost this will be a cost of sin in Dundalk. Come on by. I have a hearty list of guests and victims beginning with Jessica valus. From the Hartford designs, who recreated our website we’re gonna get the fonts organized I promise sometime before Thursday, Pete Kurinji former UMBC legendary soccer coach has threatened to stop by Chris Emery from 100.7 and Chris I got the Rock and Roll Embrey and 98 rock lives told me lives in Edgemere. Now I’m like one gotta come to Costas on Thursday. So we’ll have him out. And Luke Jones will be with us on Thursday as well. Roz and her husband Greg. We’re all of you young old timers and Luke your father who listened to the program would probably remember Greg from Northeast rather large Yankees fan. It’s taken a Yankee series to get him out. Ross from the Maryland lottery is his wife. So I’m hoping to get some crab cakes for those folks. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery the Gold Rush seven doublers we’ll have these on Thursday from one and two for the Orioles will take on the junkies from Yankee Stadium at four o’clock we’ll be over cost this the crabs will be hot the crab cakes will be delicious. The bureau will be cold, apparently is gonna be pretty steamy outside. Orioles bats were not steamy. On Tuesday night, Lucas. So what what? Well, what do you make of the early goings of this? Because this, you know, this is one of those series you can’t get swept right? It’s going to happen fast. Thursday afternoon at the bar Costas for you, me he’s gonna be like a snap. And we make not a lot of these before we go into them. Because it’s like it’s a June series we talked about, is it a big series or a big series? If you sweep or get swept? I think I think it’s 2112. We just move on. And it’s it. You know, there were fun games.


Luke Jones  02:06

Yeah. And even then, I mean, is it a massive season altering kind of series, if you get swept or you sweep the Yankees? I mean, it’s still close deficit. I mean, we saw this last year, the rays were up by a bunch on the Orioles in the first half of the season. And before you know what the Orioles were in first place in July. So it’s still early on, although it’s not, you know, that’s a relative term at this point in time, but you want to put your best foot forward. There’s no question about that. And the problem is easier said than done when Corbin burns and Grayson Rodriguez aren’t starting in this series. And there’s no Kyle Bradish Of course, and no John means no Tyler Well, so I think this series beyond the obvious ramifications for the division and three head to head matchups in an era where you’re not playing Division foes 19 times anymore, is I think you’re trying to find out about your starting pitching a little bit here. I mean, Albert’s for us struggled on Tuesday night we’ve seen him be such a great story. And that’s not to say that it defines him one way or the other based on how he pitched on Tuesday night, but you know, black command five walks. I thought it was laughable, but people thought Yankees fans thought he hit Aaron judge on purpose purpose gets a head Oates, who throws in non competitive Oh to pitch and then hit some. I mean, that doesn’t mean

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:25

that you also score a run so

Luke Jones  03:30

right? But it’s just a reflection of Albert Suarez didn’t have as good command. And we’ve seen him have pretty good command overall. So it was an off night for him. But whether we’re talking about Suarez, whether we’re talking about Cade Povich who’s going up against the season debut and Garrett Cole, in the Wednesday night game,

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:46


welcome to the show.

Luke Jones  03:49

You’re finding out about these guys. Right? And that doesn’t mean again that if they don’t fare well, they’re banished from the rotation at the moment. But you’re trying to see how they fare. I mean, you know, K Povich depending on the results for him. We view him differently one way or the other, right? I mean, after his first start in Toronto, it didn’t go so well. Even though there were some good things to see. You wanted to see more, and you did see more against it.

Nestor J. Aparicio  04:12

I remember the first time you saw Bradish and the lights went on for you. Right. I mean, he had a start, and it was like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe the angels weren’t yet you know, like, you don’t really know until you know, and you watch these guys throw in Norfolk or whatever that doesn’t mean. I mean, they need five to 10 starts in the big leagues to to see what what they are. At

Luke Jones  04:33

least I mean, think about it. Grayson Rodriguez had I think it was 10 starts last year before he got sent down. And then we didn’t see him until after the all star break. And he was one of the best pitchers in the American League when he when he got back to the big leagues. So you never really know. And again, you don’t want to make too much of it. Good or bad. But you know, Tuesday night, they didn’t swing the bat. I mean he works for us for as mediocre as he was. He didn’t get bombed I mean You get a chance to win a chance to win. Yeah, yeah, the chance to win. I mean, sometimes they’re hits the two run homer in the ninth inning and you’re a base runner away from tying the game at that point in time. So you can’t wait to the ninth inning to score your first runs, though, I’d expect to win at Yankee Stadium. So, but But again, that’s where this series is interesting for me in terms of not anything to validate the Orioles. You know, I think the litmus test that we were talking about going into the Philadelphia series where you had these two super heavyweights, the Orioles prove they belong, right they belong with the Phillies they belong with with the Yankees, the Yankees and the Phillies certainly think they belong after having played them all. You know, the Yankees came to Baltimore six weeks to go and lost three out of four. But this series right now for me, it’s looking at this starting pitching where you’re looking at the back half of the rotation. Cole Irvin in the finale that’s a little bit different because he’s an established major league pitcher. But for Suarez and for Povich It’s okay. What does this look like? You know, and it’s not even so much about the Yankees starter, it’s about going up against that Yankee lineup, which we’ll see about judges status for the rest of this series. They just put Anthony Rizzo on the IL, so they’re at less than 100%. But we know the Orioles pitching staff is at less than 100%. So I think your point is well taken in terms of the outcome of the series. Yeah, you don’t want to get swept, you know, you don’t want to be in a position where you’re four and a half out looking at at that kind of a deficit, which isn’t insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination, but


Nestor J. Aparicio  06:31

it would be a bad week in New York, it’d be it’d be a couple of days in New York, if this doesn’t go well for Povich this evening. And we’re going to be over Costas for the capper on Thursday, as well. And I mean, their major underdog on Wednesday night, right. I mean, like, just in a general sense of Gerrit Cole, right. So yeah, yeah, I

Luke Jones  06:48

mean, the couple things they have going for them you’re right of course they’re the underdog. Anytime you have a rookie pitcher making his third career start at Yankee Stadium, you probably don’t even need to look at the opposing starter and you’ll say that team’s the underdog

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:02

170 By the way, just see you know, it’s one. Yeah,

Luke Jones  07:05


fair enough. So but but with Kade Povich there is a

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:09

the only other 179 is Suarez on the Hill for the Phillies.

Luke Jones  07:14

Fair enough. Fair enough, I guess the Padres Oh, but for K Povich. It’s a little bit different now than it was for rookies coming to the major leagues 10 years ago, because they’re Statcast data for triple A, you know there’s there are fewer and fewer secrets when it comes to pitching and scouting reports even for rookies. But in the case of Povich this will be the first time the Yankees see him. So some of that deception, some of that pitch ability that we’ve talked about with him that okay, he doesn’t throw 98 But he mixes his pitches. Well, good curveball. I mean, he’s got to land the curveball. I think we saw that did not do that. In Toronto. We saw how it went, did it extremely well against the Braves. And we saw how that went. So I think that’s key for him, but you’re finding out about him but I’ll say on the flip side with Garrett Cole. There is unknown here right? I mean, he’s first and foremost, he didn’t have a particularly long minor league rehab assignment so you wouldn’t expect that he’s going to throw 105 pitches. So you have that and there’s just the unknown of you know, he had this elbow issue although all all indications were it wasn’t related to his UCL It was another issue. I think it might have even been a nerve issue from what I was reading a little bit earlier this week, but they say he’s healthy now it seems like it’s gone well with with his rehab but until you get back to that major league environment where you’re truly taking all the precautions are out the window and you just say hey, it’s time to throw you know it’s time to be Gary Cole again be the sorrows

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:40

have all their hitters at least you know a Povich won’t have judged tonight. I mean, that was a nasty I mean, you could tell when he went to first base he was gonna be playing you know, like it was pretty obvious to me he was hurt. Yeah, yeah. Although


Luke Jones  08:53

I’ll point out Jordan Westberg left the game and Brandon Hyde said after the game he was really sore weird play with Soto I mean people

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:01

push like my wife jumped up. My wife created that tweet that I threw out that he was pushed really she’s that was Bush Lee you don’t run into the third.

Luke Jones  09:10

What do you do it? I mean, at best, at best it’s what are you doing man? Like are you not even paying attention to what you’re doing?

Nestor J. Aparicio  09:20


By the way you created an hour that’s how it was

Luke Jones  09:23

right? Oh, it’s it’s that and you potentially injured someone and you know, we’ll see about Westberg I would assume he’s out of the lineup at least for a day or two. I do know they kind of Norbi at Norfolk was pinch hit for so I’m guessing he’s on the taxi squad at the very least in case Westberg wakes up and is not feeling well. With that. So yeah, of all the talk about pitching inside which you know, both teams did some of that. Look, pitching inside is part of the game not seeing hitting people as part of the game. The Soto play was from by far the most suspicious You know, what the heck are you doing kind of play? So, but you’re right I mean, you assume nowhere and judge you hope no Aaron judge for the Oriole sake I guess for these two games not that you want him to be injured and the initial x rays and everything sounds like he’s going to be okay. Which is good. I mean, you don’t never want to see someone hurt. But if he’s out of the lineup then that’s a good thing for the Orioles that’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  10:21

the south part of your body where you need to grip they hold the bat. I mean, yeah, I mean, even obvious.

Luke Jones  10:27

I mean, even if it’s a contusion, even if it’s just a bruise. I mean, that could be a few days. So I mean, it’s definitely it’ll be interesting. I’ll say this much and again, as we’re kind of talking about this leading into Thursday afternoons finale, and you and I being at Costas it will be interesting to see if there is any retaliation or any of that. I mean, as much as I don’t think whatsoever that Suarez was throwing at Aaron judge again, he gets a head Oh, to on Aaron judge, and then you say, Oh, I’ll hit him then. No, that makes zero sense. You gotta head on. Oh two and Aaron judge or at least gonna throw three or four pitches in the dirt hoping he chases one. So I mean, it’s what we’ll see though, because you could tell the Yankees dugout wasn’t pleased, especially I guess when when toric gleyber Torres got hit. Later on by AQ


Nestor J. Aparicio  11:14

Soto started this issue with the staredown. Yeah. And I let in on him when I had those seats. Were curious about where my curio shirt here same shirt. I wore four rows behind the on deck circle when I was hazing. Aaron judge, but I mean, the soda and look, this is what creates this sort of friction, right? I mean, Soto starts this last month, Oreos beat their ass pretty good down here. Oreos are giving them chase. They’re on top. They’re the veterans. They have all the billionaires everybody here is poor, except for, I don’t know, none of these guys are really paid. I guess Burns is making some money this year. But you know, it’s haves and have nots. It’s, you think you’re the Yankees and we think we won 101 games last year. And you’re not going to send your prima donna to run over my my rookie third baseman, like, stop. So I would agree with you that if Rick Sutcliffe were involved here, or Don Drysdale or Bob Gibson or, but I don’t know how Brandon Hyde manages and I know Buck would manage? They would they would be getting something up their ass tonight. Yeah, seriously, it would be Soto who would be ducking out of the box tonight. And he would go tell the young kid throw at him. Because that’s the way the old world the old world work. I don’t know how it works anymore. I don’t know, unwritten rules and hoops playing kayfabe. And he’s gonna look the other way. Follow baseball long time. Retaliation would be mandatory in the old unwritten rules of baseball as I say it out loud.

Luke Jones  12:50

Yeah, but at the same time, a couple Yankees players got hit. I mean, and again, I don’t think that’s all the reason that rubbing him was,

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:57

should be ducking. That’s all I’m saying. It’s coming this way is what I’m saying.

Luke Jones  13:01


And but one came in on Gunnar later in the game. Look,

Nestor J. Aparicio  13:07

could it happen? Sure. I’m not gonna sit here and say that, you know, just because I don’t think there was intent. That doesn’t mean, you know, guys get hit the era of whether it’s oh, you know, democracy in baseball, the eggheads that have been running baseball for 100 years with these unwritten rules. This is I’m just talking out loud. Because Paul thinks this way. Ben McDonald thinks this way in the broadcast. They think this way, they talk out loud. And that’s the purpose of you know, they have all that language that your father and my father would recognize, as well. I, I can’t see any reason why this wouldn’t escalate. I mean, I’m being honest with you. I if, again, if it was butcher, Walter and Billy Martin, or if it was certain managers, I would know it. I don’t know, these managers well enough and the modern era well enough. I just know, like, it has all the elements to me to get shippi. I mean,

Luke Jones  14:01

it could I, I guess my point is I’m saying I don’t know if it will. But yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised. Again, the optics of what happened with Soto early on in the game with Westberg. And how, like I said, at best, it’s a case of are you even paying attention to what you’re doing, let alone if there’s any intent of any foul play there. But the fact that a couple Yankees got hit after that, you know, some would say, Okay, that’s it, then it’s over, or it escalates. Right? So we’ll see. We’ll see. I

Nestor J. Aparicio  14:36

mean, it is a it’s a backdrop to this when Westberg and George aren’t gonna play next couple days. Sure, sure. I


Luke Jones  14:41

mean, both teams want to be at full strength. You want both teams at full strength. I don’t want to see anyone get hurt. But you know, if you’re gonna ask me to say, what the chances of this escalating I’m not gonna sit here and say it’s a 90% chance that it will but if it does, I’m not going to be surprised. At percent chance it won’t. Yeah. So Well, I don’t I don’t know about that. I mean, we’ll see. We’ll see. I mean, again, things have changed a little bit in that regard. It’s certainly not the same culture that it was 10 years ago, let alone talk about 40 or 50 years ago, but it still exists. And we’ll see how this plays out. I mean, again, hopefully, the fact that Aaron judge is going to be okay, even if he’s gonna miss a couple games, you know, with a bruise on his hand.

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:26

Oh, you’re starting when soda was staring down the Orioles couple weeks ago, because I remember you remember, we all remember it.

Luke Jones  15:31

Yeah. I mean, it’s. There’s machismo. I mean, there’s tough guys. And look, they’re highly competitive. I mean, these are highly competitive baseball teams duking it out for the elite. So we’ll see. I think for the Orioles, though, the concern the focus needs to be how to score some runs before the ninth inning. Because if you’re going up against Jericho, yes, easier said than done. You also want to try to support your rookie pitcher making his third start his first legitimate start in a hostile environment. I know he started up in Toronto a couple weeks ago, that was a day game. It wasn’t really a you know, an edgy atmosphere like you would expect it to be Wednesday night. So as I said, to kind of bring it back to the Orioles rotation. I mean, this is you’re finding out something about Cade Povich in the start not defining, you know, I’m not saying he gets sent down if he gets roughed up, or he’s going to the Hall of Fame if he blanks the Yankees over seven innings, but you want to see him acquit himself? Well, because we’ve talked about it, you know, now with no John means. No, Tyler wells, Kyle, Brad is presumably done. I mean, we don’t know what we’ll get an official word at some point, I would assume. But you’re looking to see if Kate Povich can be an is for you, at least in the number four, number five starters spot the rest of the way. And that does goes a long way in determining how Mike Elias is going to proceed at the trade deadline. I mean, this is important. We talked about this last year with Grayson Rodriguez in July and how he was able to show that he could be an answer to the point where, okay, maybe they still should have done better than Jack Flaherty at the deadline like they did. But they at least knew that grace and Rodriguez had

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:13


made we haven’t mentioned Jack Flaherty’s name, right? I mean, his name has not come up on this airways this calendar year. That’s crazy, right. I think the last time we talked about Jack Flaherty was October.

Luke Jones  17:23

Well, when he wasn’t in when he wasn’t in the rotation in the postseason, all

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:27

we talk about the next five weeks here is going to be who they’re gonna get right, sure to be more memorable named a jack Flaherty? Because if you would ask me, I might have had a hard time coming up with that 30 seconds ago. So with the audience, I bet.

Luke Jones  17:42

Well, that right there, though, goes back to the point I made a couple of days ago when we were talking about this where yes, do I expect the Orioles to be active on the trade market? No question about it. Do I expect them to make an addition or two? Absolutely. Is it going to be such an impactful division? Acquisition that is going to be the defining move that they make, I think it’s still going to be more about the guys that are already on this club. You know, whether it’s not saying K Povich becomes your game to starter in a postseason series. But


Nestor J. Aparicio  18:15

your point Kyle Gibson won’t be the difference than winning the World Series are not he might be a nice piece if they get that far. But to your point, you better win games in August and September with what you got, you better not be thinking about what you don’t have, right? Because when you’re winning, you’re winning games at 650 clip you’re a good team.

Luke Jones  18:33

Right. And one thing that we need to remind everyone and we we’ve touched on this, but in the grand scheme of things as far as where the Orioles are right now, which is one of the three best teams in baseball, you know, regardless of how the rest of this series plays out, they’re still in that in that category. Right? You know, that record wise, I mean, it speaks for itself. Think about this, Kyle Bradish made what eight starts nine starts, John means made four starts Tyler wells made three starts. We’re not talking about guys that had been mainstays in the rotation this year. Right. So that tells you, yes, it stinks to lose them. And yes, especially with radish that add some really substantial upside that’s lost, with with with him going down with the elbow again. But, you know, John means was it was in the Major League rotation for about five minutes as it pertains to what the full season is like, same with Tyler wells. So point is, you’ve had some guys who’ve done really well for you. That doesn’t mean that they’re going to continue. That’s why again, this week, this Yankees series is a nice eyeball test to see what it looks like for these for these less proven guys. I would say younger Albert Suarez is younger. He’s just not as proven right? So you’re trying to see how it looks. And it doesn’t mean that just because if it goes well, oh, we don’t need to trade for anyone. It doesn’t mean if it doesn’t go well, that you say Well, these guys aren’t going to cut the mustard. You know, I mean, they’re just not up to snuff. You You’re trying to figure this out.

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:00

But you do want to make a deal for somebody that can’t help you like clarity, or well, and that’s

Luke Jones  20:05


the big thing. And that’s why the position that they’re in right now, yes. If you told me there’s a great deal out there to be made tomorrow, and someone you can add to your rotation or your bullpen tomorrow, and it’s a great deal, and it’s, it’s someone who’s going to help, and you’re not gonna have to give up your best prospects to do it, then of course, yeah. But at the same time, we know that with the three wildcards in each league, and I mean, look at the national league standings right now, there’s about two teams in the entire league that are really bonafide non contenders at this point. Yeah, the

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:39

cubs are last placed, but they still see a path. Yeah,

Luke Jones  20:42

I mean, you look at these teams that are five, six games under 500. And they’re only a game or two out of a wildcard spot. I mean, that just speaks to the mediocrity in the in the National League. Once you get past the top three or four. Some

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:54

of these are franchises like the Padres and the Cubs that aren’t going to be quick to throw talent.


Luke Jones  21:00

And that’s the other thing. Right, exactly. It’s easier said than done to say whether a team should be a seller. There are lots of teams every year. The angels were a perfect example of this last year. They should have been a seller. What did they end up doing? They decided to buy thinking, oh, let’s do this. We still have Otani. We’ll try to impress him. We’ll try to see if he’ll resign with us. So they traded away prospects. They went in the tank anyway. And then they lost Otani. So just because you can sit here and say whether a team should be a buyer or should be a seller two years ago with the Orioles. We were talking about the Orioles potentially buying and what did they do? They traded Trey man Seanie and Jorge Lopez and they got a lot of criticism for it at the time. But look how those deals worked out for them especially the Jorge Lopez deal when you’re already talking about you in your condo for over a year now being a mainstay in the batter’s and Lopes would have been the last two years. Yeah. And Cade Povich, who is at the very least, uh, maybe right now and it’s pretty highly regarded. You know, it kind of snuck into the the bottom of the top 100 prospect list in baseball, depending on which publication you are

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:06

looking at Yankee Stadium, and he’s not a maybe he’s in is he he arrived? He’s, you know, I

Luke Jones  22:10

mean, he’s a maybe in the sense of is he going to be a long term starting pitcher for you. But the fact that we’re talking about it, again, speaks six

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:20


innings at Yankee Stadium tonight with the season on the line. Sure. Well, seasons not on the line. But I mean, you know, this a big game.

Luke Jones  22:28

This is it’s important that the seasons not on the line, though. I mean, let’s not use hyperbole here, let’s, let’s at least recognize what it is. It’s important, but the seasons not on the line, you know, they get swept, the division is not over. I mean, it’s not. But it’s with Kay Povich. There’s a guy that they acquired two years ago, who was not going to help them in their pipe dream of being a wildcard two years ago, but two years later, and maybe beyond could end up being a really important piece for them. So you’re always looking at the trade deadline through that lens of where are we now? Where are we going as a franchise in the future? And that’s where I, I’ve continued to stress, Mike Elias is not going to, he’s not going to pick his farm system clean, just in the name of improving his chances for 2024, there’s still going to be a long term balance at work there. But do I expect them to make a move or two at the very least? Yeah, I absolutely do. I thought that before Kyle Bradish went down with an injury, I feel stronger in my conviction to add another starting pitcher now than I did two weeks ago. It kind of feels almost impossible that they won’t add someone of note, you know, and again, maybe it’s on the lower end of the Kyle Gibson, or maybe the aim higher, you know, maybe there’s a starting pitcher, and, you know, some some discussion has been out there about the White Sox with a couple of their good arms that might might be available in the right trade. So, you know, we’ll see how this plays out. But in the meantime, you know, how does Kate Povich look? How does Cole Irvin, look in the finale, you know, and another tough midget pitching matchup? So the Orioles I mean, don’t, they’ve gone through a lot. And the one thing I will say, they need to stay healthy from this point on. I mean, and that’s why when you see Jordan Westberg leave the game early on Tuesday night, you’re just saying, oh my gosh, I mean, when is this going to stop? They’ve got to stay healthy at some point in time. You can only talk about making trades so much if guys are going to continue to go down, especially on the pitching side. I mean, they’re not going to trade for three or four or five pitchers. And even

Nestor J. Aparicio  24:32

they’ve been decimated. I mean, when you consider what when we were driving around Sarasota. What the hopes and the thoughts were even with Bradish dangling and and means trying to make it back and you were worried about Wells’s innings. Last All Star game, that those guys that we’d be sitting here in June, and the team would be as good as advertised, and they’re gone and they’re just gone. Like, if you would ask me On March 30, if I I thought means that a better chance of like, making it back then did surviving it. I thought, well, this is a bullpen guy no matter what like you did because they would be looking to improve upon him with some Suarez Gibson whoever Povich call guys are real starters. But you know that that’s devastating and meanwhile the Yankees have sweated out call worried him. And tonight they get him back to the hill. And that’s not to say you’ll still be there a month from now or three months from now or in October. But it’s I don’t want this to be a ships passing in the night thing here this week when we look back on this and the Orioles fall eight back and just play the rest of the season sort of that way, because they can’t catch them. And they can’t win enough and the Yankees don’t stop losing. It’s been a little bit of that the last month it’s been a little bit of like, you know, we’re losing guys, and they keep winning. And I know we’ve had a couple of middle of the week conversations around here, when that’s happened. Now we face them at a time when we’re losing pitchers, and they’re getting pitchers. They’re starting a, you know, a legend and we’re starting like a kid we have to start because Bradish his arm fell off and and means is not here anymore. Because these would be their starts, right? I mean, these would be the starts these guys have instead, we’re starting our number eight starter in Norfolk because we really are because that’s where they are, does it? Look, we do it every day here and it doesn’t feel desperate on the inside. But if I’m a Major League Baseball network, and I was projecting rotations and talking about this series right here, right now, let alone the chip Enos, we talked first 15 minutes about this, there is some machismo and there is some we got a Yankees logo on our chest and you got a cartoon bird. And yeah, more than anything in 40 years. And there’s a little bit of that that goes with it on the outside of the perception of it. But the perception on the inside is we’re losing a lot of pictures around your dude, and we just lost Westberg. I don’t think that that’s catastrophic. But getting the best players on the field, even when they are sometimes they don’t hit the ball. But to your point that the best thing to love about the Orioles is Rodriguez and burns coming out and pitching because they need without that they’re really in trouble. We’re starting to dangle a little bit, because I don’t know, I don’t know that I believe in the Calvary as much over the long term. Because we’re not talking about the same names anymore. Three of the key names that were maybes are never will bees. And I think that that has created some urgency for Elias to pull a rabbit out of a hat for some person trades and to deplete the organization because that’s going to happen if they make trades for two relievers in a starter. You know, some of these curse stats, and some of these names that we’ve thrown out as artillery guys are going to be the ones that are gone. It’s not going to be A’s or Molins. We’re gonna have to live with those guys this year.

Luke Jones  27:51

Yeah, I mean, it’s hard for me to disagree. I don’t think they’re dangling. I mean, this team’s continued to win. You know, even through all this, they’ve continued to when they’re


Nestor J. Aparicio  28:02

being challenged. I’ll say they’re beat. Yeah, yes. What else but

Luke Jones  28:05

you know what, I was even thinking about this the other day as I was kind of just not even filling out their roster, but just kind of pondering what their depth chart would be at this point in time. Kind of think about what the rotation was last year. I mean, John means wasn’t in the picture until the very end of the season for four starts. You know, Kyle Bradish, has kind of been replaced by Corbin burns, right? When you kind of do it in and just kind of a real simplistic way. I mean, burn or Bradish was the ACE last year Burns is the ace now. Grayson Rodriguez saved for that, two and a half week IOL stint he had back in May. Now he’s, he’s the number two and he was the number two by, you know, the second half of last year. You know, Dean Kramer, we haven’t mentioned him and he’s obviously very important. He’s coming back from the triceps issue and pitched in Norfolk on Sunday, Brandon Hyde has been non committal in terms of whether I’ll make another start or maybe he’ll rejoin see for rotation

Nestor J. Aparicio  28:59

ever been great. So I can’t project him as being great. I can’t project him to come back and make starts in the second half of the year and thinking that, that he’s going to be that we’re going to feel real good about pitching him in the playoffs. I mean, like, I hope so. But I for me, he’s he he’s just he’s a guy. I mean, on a good team and taking the ball every fifth day, but I don’t, I don’t get well I am not wowed by it the promise of him in using the LDS kind of way to think that he’s going to be a top of the rotation guy, and I’m not down okay. I think he’s already he’s not.

Luke Jones  29:37


They have to top of the rotation, guys. I mean, I wasn’t talking in those terms. I’m talking in terms of any pitchers taking the ball, you know, so we’re talking about different things here. I wasn’t saying the Dean Dean Kramer is destined to be the number three starter in a postseason series. But Dean Kramer’s innings really important and he’s taken the ball for them the last two years. I mean, it’s been important. So, you know, through that lens,

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:57

I think it’s important that he’s better than everyone he comes from. fact I guess that’s what I’m saying.

Luke Jones  30:01

I mean, I just want him to post up. You know, look, I don’t think Dean Kramer is going to be, you know, okay. What would you say from an experience standpoint? He would be their number three starter right now. Okay. I mean, I suppose he started in Texas, in game three didn’t go well. But he’s important regardless, just because he’s someone capable of giving competitive starts every five days or every six days and giving you a chance to win. Are you expecting the pitcher that

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:29

they acquired to be him? Or better than him?


Luke Jones  30:32

I mean, I think they’re hoping for someone better than him. But again, what what are, what’s out there? What are you going to be willing to give up? I mean, it’s just that’s the truth here. I mean, Mike Elias, I’ll continue to bad

Nestor J. Aparicio  30:45

do you need it that way? And that’s how bad do you need it bad now with Bradish? And, and means and? Well, I mean, I, I especially, we don’t think Craig Kramer’s on healthy really healthy yet enough to come back and say he’s healthy and making the starts. Yeah, I’m, you know, I’m a little concerned. That’s all and I’m concerned in the middle of a Yankee series where they have used in this weekend used to depleted or whatever, but this is it summer and winning a 656 60. Clips hard to do. And it’s a lot harder to do when you take your number one from last year out and say he’s gone, because it’s, they got some work to do. They really do. And I think the Yankees will show that this week that there’s a measuring stick, and that’s good. They need that they’re not going to run away from the pack this year. They’re not going to run away and hide. They’re going to

Luke Jones  31:33

chase I don’t think the Yankees are going to do that either. I mean, you keep saying the Orioles are dangling and everything. They’ve done this Bradish only made what eight starts. Tyler wells made three starts all year John means made four starts all year. I mean, these guys haven’t been you know, it’s not as though these were their top three starters that they just lost. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:52


point Suarez makes a start on Tuesday night. It was it was okay. Right, but But you say one very good. Three runs fifth inning. You know, somebody’s got to step up. trawl walking at home run and make the game like they did the ninth inning. But for me, that was a winnable game. So I’m not down I mean, dangling to me. The dangling part is they don’t know who their what their rotation is. They’re there. They’re number three starters on another team right now. And as I’m looking at it, so that means that it’s going to cost us him him and somebody else down on the farm and we’re looking at these guys. I just, I think they have work to do. And I don’t know that I felt that way. Last year. Last year. I felt like things were on autopilot. I think it’s a little choppier this year. I just do I think it’s gonna be harder. If they’re not scoring seven and eight runs a night on nights when they’re hitting three run home runs. Hey, man, they can beat anybody because they can score eight runs any night. I agree with that wholeheartedly. But I don’t. That takes time off around here they take, especially when they see good pitching. I think we’re standing. Yeah,

Luke Jones  33:02

I think you’re understating the concerns about the pitching last year, because that’s why the argument I was kind of making is they’re not in a dramatically different position now than they were last year. Because I’m just saying Burns has essentially replaced Kyle Bradish is the ace, you still have Grayson Rodriguez, Dean Cramer is going to be back presumably in the next, you know, whether it’s the next three days or the next week and a half. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:27

what agree they’re pitching wasn’t good enough last October will be agree with that just for the general say they weren’t good enough to win. They want it to be better.

Luke Jones  33:36

We didn’t hit it. They didn’t hit in the Division Series either. I


Nestor J. Aparicio  33:39

mean, they don’t hit. I mean, they don’t need better hitters. My point is my

Luke Jones  33:43

point is they want 101 games last year. They’re on pace to do better than that this year, this year. And yeah, it’s not as though they have this unbelievable starting staff. But at the same time, we can’t just ignore the numbers either. The starting rotation numbers have been good and we Corbin has been really good for them. And look, we can sit here and say I don’t believe that that’s going to continue. All right. Fair enough. But at the same time is Luis he’ll going to continue to do what he’s done for the Yankees. I mean, we were talking about him three months ago at all and he’s been one of the best pitchers in baseball and he’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:16

related that Geraldo he’ll just for my right but but but

Luke Jones  34:20


the point is, I mean with that, look at someone who was an unknown to the rest of the league. I’m not saying that he was you know, completely, you know, came out of nowhere, but you know, rookie pitcher stepping up and doing what he’s done. So you know, the Orioles they’re doing something right, because all we all we do and when I say we I don’t mean you and me I mean fans and media. All we do is is moan about how their pitching is lacking. Yet the numbers suggest that they’ve been one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. So they’re doing something right, you know, rotation something when Brian

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:50

Baker comes out of the bullpen that you know, makes us all a little a little queasy. Luke Jones is here. You can find him out on the internet or Uncle Luke Now welcoming new additions. I’ve only really known one Evelyn in the world. That was Evelyn Ehlers, who was at one time John Angelos is a secretary and then went off to the LA Dodgers. So I’ve known one Evelyn so and she’s a wonderful person. So we will welcome Evelyn to the world. So Luke will be Pappu sing all weekend and being Uncle Luke and doing all that. So as the orals run off to Houston, you’ll also be with us on Thursday we’ll have the Gold Rush seven doublers to give away. Our friends at Liberty pure solutions are always with us as well as Jiffy Lube MultiCare on the Maryland crab cake tour, and then next Tuesday, we’re going to be at Pappas in Parkville. They are reaching out and I saw Jeanne Nesbitt last week hurt her husband at some time works for me at Jamie Costello’s goodbye party the other day, so anything else you got in the Shanky series? Is there I have I have a piss you off capably here on a Wednesday here. I want you pissed off for greatness because they need to win a couple of games here at Yankee Stadium before we get together ticked

Luke Jones  35:50

me off. I mean, it’s just nothing’s changed the Yeah, I agree. They need some pitching reinforcements, but their pitching has been good. I in fact, someone like my final point, wasn’t

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:00

horrible. He was worried he was a third inning. What you know, he’s 50 pitches in and I’m like, Oh, dude, this is two and a third. They’re gonna be losing five to nothing. That that didn’t happen. It came close to happen. It didn’t happen.


Luke Jones  36:13

Yeah, I want to cite something really quick though. That just goes back to what I was saying. That keeps some of this in perspective. My pal Jamie who I know is a listener directed me to this and it’s the Orioles. Orioles fan say Twitter account. But you know, it came from the stats came from fan graphs, or real starting pitching, combined starting era of through 71 games. So this is before Tuesday night’s game, starting era 2.99 a whip of 1.13

Nestor J. Aparicio  36:44

it’s pretty darn good.

Luke Jones  36:46

If you removed Kyle Bradish John means and Tyler wells. Current starters. 2.91 era 1.15 point is my point. My point is yeah, they need some reinforcements. But let’s also not act like this is the 96 Orioles who couldn’t pitch

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:06


Suarez has been good. I mean, some of these guys for you. Look, I was partying with Dave Johnson the other night and you know, he bragged about his fastball hit an 88 Once or twice. And you know, guys like him in the big leagues. There’s a long history of guys like him who can pitch Well, Suarez being the perfect example of a guy who banged around forever, Korea this that and find a summer where they can take the ball 15 or 20 times and be pretty good not beat Kofax or Palmer but be good enough to beat Dean Kramer to be good enough to be a third starter with a four era. Take the ball, give you five innings, get you 345 runs wherever they are on the road, get it to your bullpen and hope that Gunnar Henderson or Adley rutschman Or somebody hits a home run and they score some runs. And when you leave the game, it’s 434432. Whatever it is, that’s baseball, they’re not all going to be Corbin burns, right? I mean, the idea is that five Corbin burns and you win the World Series. We felt like we had maybe three or five minutes ago now we feel like we might have two of them. And I’m worried about when October happens and they lose in a series and we say well, you started doing Kramer and we talked about this back on June 19. And we didn’t think Dean Kramer was a winning pitcher in October for a top three to be one of those guys to get you through that. Not to mention the bullpen because it’s not even about Dean Kramer. It’s not about Suarez. It’s really going to be about bullpen innings. As we pointed out and how quick we go to the bullpen when Suarez is in trouble at Yankee Stadium, because I really didn’t think we were gonna see six bullpen innings on Tuesday night. And that starts to eat you up into Thursday. And even though they lost, you know, it was it was a credible start, but also losing start. And yeah, I guess that’s the bouncers they get credible starts from, they get a great start on Wednesday night from this kid, and so loose and now they’re hanging the sweep. And you and I are at Costas on Thursday. And we’re waiting for burns and Rodriguez to come back. And if that’s what we’re doing for the next month or two, waiting for those guys to start and holy crossing your fingers and open mountcastle knocks in six runs one night. That’s they’re gonna hit the ball, I’m convinced to that. And every night they’re not playing the Rangers or excuse me, the Rangers every night. They’re thinking Ranger Suarez, they’re not playing the Phillies or the Yankees, you know, they’re they’re not going to see these kinds of teams. This is the ultimate test to see the best teams for a week.

Luke Jones  39:45

Sure, sure. And I mean, I guess the point I was going to make as it pertains to the starting rotation, look, this is still going to come down to if we’re talking about October ferns and Grayson Rodriguez need to be great. Look at the Phillies two years ago, they had Zack Wheeler and Aaron Knoll. And they had Ranger Suarez as their number three and Ranger Suarez two years ago. Is not what Ranger Suarez is right now. If you have a one two punch like that, and I think the upside of a one two punch for Brunson, Brad, I said burns and radish by accident, burns and grace and Rodriguez. Is it as good as burns? Bradish Rodriguez as your upside? No, of course not. But it’s still pretty darn formidable. I mean, it still is so going to be fine, navigating this thing are going to add a starting pitcher, I’m pretty confident that they’re going to add some bullpen arms, they’re going to be fine. This team has played so well. And as I said, some of these pitchers they lost. It’s not as though they had pitched all season. And as it is, so they’ve been relying on these different guys stepping up as it is, and they’ve done that. Well, they continue to do that. Who knows in the same way that or the Yankees going to stay healthy and their starting rotation or whatever team you want to go through. I mean, it’s just it’s the nature of the beast, especially on the pitching side in 2024, but there’s still really good upside at the top of that rotation. They’ve gotten good performances from lessor guys. Do you want those lesser guys starting postseason games? No, of course not. But at the same time in a short series, you need three, they’ve got to they were hoping they had their three until Bradish. You know what the elbow barking again. So we’ll see how that works out. You know, I gotta sit here and say that I think Kate Povich is going to be so good that he’s going to start game three in a postseason series and you’re gonna feel great about that. I have no idea. Probably not. But that doesn’t mean he can’t still be really good for you, and help you get to that point and and pitch out in the bullpen or whatever it is in October. But, you know, we’ve got a long way to go until October. And that’s where you kind of take a deep breath. This team’s won, they’ve continued to win. They’ve had things go wrong. And guess what, they’ve still won. And they’ve still just look at a long history of mediocre

Nestor J. Aparicio  42:03

45 I loved Gonzalez I’ve loved the way in Shan I love Dave Johnson, who he Ornish and Bob Malaki. But, you know, I, I like Messina, and you know, Clemens at the top of my rotation in October, because I feel like that’s how you win.

Luke Jones  42:20

Well, and they have Corbin burns, and Grayson Rodriguez, I think has a heck of a chance to be really formidable one that number two spot, you know, and anyone would tell you. I was hearing I forget who it was the other day, you know, it’s kind of talking about in a postseason setting. If you have two great starting pitchers. And you know, Grayson Rodriguez needs to show he can be great. And I think what he did against the Phillies was a good example of that. But if you have two great starting pitchers in October, you’ve got a shot. I mean, you really do, assuming the rest of your staff isn’t completely incompetent. And if they are you probably


Nestor J. Aparicio  42:55

have six or seven in Game One, two, that kind of helps a little bit too. Yes, an afternoon game and the shadows and hitters can’t see the ball.

Luke Jones  43:06

But you just said it. I’ll continue to say we keep questioning the pitching. We keep questioning the pitching. We keep crushing the pitching in the aggregate, looking at the entire picture. Their pitching has been really good. I mean, you can’t We can’t just ignore the numbers. And I’m not saying you want to either playing sixth fifth just right, exactly. And that’s why they’ve done that. Despite the fact that John means barely through for them this year. Tyler wells barely through for them this year. Bradish did for what’s going to be the equivalent of roughly a quarter of a season and that’s it. So and they’ve still played 650 ball. So they’re doing something right with the rest of their pitching. Do they need more? Yeah, yeah, I’m not gonna sit here and not trying to be dismissive of that. I’m just saying that. It’s not dire. And I’m, and you weren’t saying it was dire. I know you weren’t. But you know, we keep looking at this brand.

Nestor J. Aparicio  43:54

He goes on the shelf with a 275 era I’m looking at. It’s not just like on the back of his bubblegum car. It’s not like he had a seven era and blew his arm out. I mean, like it’s so deceptively weird because the earnings were the earnings were great earnings, their earnings.

Luke Jones  44:11


He was looking at you could make an argument he looked a little more dominant than he did last year. I mean, his k rate was up. We talked about it ever felt

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:19

good about it. I was nervous from the first morning you and I talked about it. So I never felt like he was in his and I said that. And we’ll look at baseball tonight in tomorrow. So wrap up and we’ll let Cara Cole go do his thing. play

Luke Jones  44:34

two games and see where you are. You hope it’s not as sweet. I am in agreement. I’m not gonna sit here and say oh, no big deal. At the same time. If it doesn’t go well. It’s not season over. It’s not oh, what we’re just gonna be the wild card. No, there’s a lot of a lot of baseball to be played. And a lot can happen. Good or bad. A lot can happen to the Yankees, good or bad. A lot can happen to Cleveland good or bad as it pertains to you know Trying to get the best record in baseball which, yeah, we we’ve spent 30 seconds talking about the Guardians maybe all season and look at what they’ve done, you know, pretty impressive in the Al Central, but got a seat. It’s a long, long, long season and so much of this is just navigating it. And I think the Orioles absolutely need some pitching to help navigate the rest of the season. Some reinforcements there. I think Mike Elias will do that. Is it going to be someone that you feel so awesome about as your number two or number three starter in October? We’ll see. We’ll see. In the meantime, looking forward to seeing Cade Povich makes more starts and looking forward to seeing what the rest of these guys do. Because as much as we’ve sat here, and we’ve been wringing our hands about the pitching, they’ve gotten the job done. It’s amazing to look at the numbers compared to what the discourse is among fans and media as it pertains to Orioles pitching. All right,

Nestor J. Aparicio  45:54

we’re gonna be here all week looking at we’ll be over at Costas sets on Thursday afternoon. I’ll be there lunchtime all afternoon. Looking forward to get to crabcakes looking forward to some Oysters Rockefeller maybe a little crab Imperial maybe an ice cold beer on a hot day. Orioles taken on the Yankees. Meet us at cost is four o’clock game. We’ll be there at lunchtime. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. We never stopped complaining and arguing about this quality baseball team. It’s been a longtime common seed Yankee Stadium.

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