Where is the Rubenstein and Arougheti commitment to winning for Orioles fans?

It’s a murky picture throughout Major League Baseball as the Winter Meetings begin and Eric Fisher of Front Office Sports returns to discuss the state of the game, on and off the field. And the business and labor of MLB and a pending working stoppage might be affecting much more than just the payroll of the Baltimore Orioles heading into 2026.

Nestor Aparicio and Eric Fisher discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ offseason and the broader MLB landscape. Fisher highlighted the upcoming labor negotiations, with the current CBA expiring in 363 days. He criticized the Orioles’ ownership for lacking a sustained investment in winning, contrasting it with the Blue Jays’ aggressive market strategy. Fisher also noted the importance of stadium development, citing the Braves’ $700 million in real estate income. Aparicio expressed concern about the Orioles’ business model and fan engagement, noting the team’s poor attendance and marketing strategies. They also touched on NFL stadium developments and the impact of potential work stoppages on MLB.

Action Items

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Research the potential impact of a labor dispute on the Orioles and MLB as a whole.
• [ ] Analyze the Orioles’ business model and revenue sources.
• [ ] Follow up on the Orioles’ plans for stadium renovations and mixed-use development.
• [ ] Discuss potential compromises in the upcoming labor negotiations, such as changes to free agency and arbitration timelines.

Outline

Orioles Offseason and Baseball Winter Meetings

• Nestor Aparicio discusses the excitement of the crab cake tour and the Maryland lottery giveaways.
• Nestor introduces Eric Fisher, highlighting his long-standing friendship and expertise in sports business.
• Eric Fisher talks about the upcoming baseball winter meetings and the importance of the labor situation in Major League Baseball.
• Nestor and Eric discuss the Orioles’ offseason, including the trade of Grayson Rodriguez and the press conference with Mike Elias.

Orioles’ Ownership and Business Model

• Nestor expresses frustration with the Orioles’ ownership and their lack of commitment to sustained success.
• Eric Fisher agrees, noting the disappointment in the Rubenstein era compared to the Angelos era.
• Nestor and Eric discuss the competitive landscape of the AL East, particularly the Blue Jays and their significant market.
• Eric highlights the importance of a consistent commitment from ownership to invest in a sustained winner.

Labor Issues and Potential Work Stoppage

• Eric Fisher explains the upcoming labor situation in Major League Baseball, with talks expected to begin after the holidays.
• Nestor and Eric discuss the potential reformation of the economic system and the rapidly changing media landscape.
• Eric mentions the importance of winning on the field to improve direct revenue lines like attendance and media rights.
• Nestor expresses concern about the Orioles’ business model and the lack of a clear plan for success.

Orioles’ Fan Engagement and Marketing Strategies

• Nestor criticizes the Orioles’ marketing strategies, including the Birdland membership and social media bans.
• Eric Fisher suggests that the Orioles should learn from successful models like the Astros and Cubs.
• Nestor and Eric discuss the importance of fan engagement and the need for a sustained commitment from ownership.
• Eric highlights the potential impact of a work stoppage on fan affinity and attendance.

NFL Stadium Developments

• Eric Fisher shifts the conversation to NFL stadium developments, mentioning the Commanders’ new stadium and the Browns’ new facility.
• Nestor and Eric discuss the challenges and opportunities in stadium construction and the impact on team performance.
• Eric highlights the importance of stadium development in the overall business strategy of sports teams.
• Nestor and Eric conclude the conversation with a light-hearted discussion about their personal connections and future plans.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles offseason, AL East relevancy, labor situation, media landscape, ownership commitment, fan engagement, Blue Jays, salary cap, work stoppage, revenue streams, stadium development, player contracts, business model, fan confidence, sports media.

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SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Eric Fisher

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive, positively getting the holidays out with the crab cake tour. I’m excited. The Maryland lottery is giving me Raven scratch offs to give away. We will also have candy cane scratch. They’re gonna my bags gonna smell like Santa Claus at East Point Mall. I’m gonna love it. Six locations now to check out, starting and our friends with Costas on the 18th for my rock and roll. Christmas with rock and roll, Hall of Famer, Genie shock, amongst others, it is the baseball winter meetings this week. They were held in this area a couple of years ago, down in National Harbor. They moved them around. Lots of media folks go and want to be media folks. And really a lot of people around the fringe of baseball and analytics. We’re always sort of nerding out, wanting to be a part of it. And lots of people in the agent space trying to get billionaires to give them multi million dollar contracts. Eric Fisher has been my friend for a couple of decades, going back to the Washington Times and Sports Business Journal. He is, I’m going to let him tell you all about his current work, because it’s exciting for me anytime I get people on who really focus on the business of sports and the offseason. But more than that, you’re a baseball nerd like me. So this is we really dig in to baseball, although you could do all sorts of different high end of television media revenue, which is where baseball is going with work stoppage next year. But Oriole fans sit here want to get a little bit more educated. And you and I have been at this since Angelo started suing mass in 2005 in the Montreal Expos were still playing in, you know, Olympic Stadium. How are you how is your offseason going? And we’re sort of into a new generation of not investigating Madison and all that at this point and trying to figure out what the Orioles are going to be. But it is. It’s a fascinating offseason of Major League Baseball. Eric, welcome

Eric Fisher  01:52

back without without question. There’s a lot going on, because you correctly point out we’ve got a labor situation coming up. We’re about 363 days now from the expiration of the current labor deal, December 1 of next year. Their talks are going to begin in earnest, probably after the holidays, moving into spring training and the beginning of the season. And there’s big issues at play, and, you know, potentially a reformation of the economic system, we got a media landscape that’s rapidly changing, and the league just did a handful of short term deals to try to hedge against that. There’s a lot going on. All right, let’s start

Nestor Aparicio  02:33

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with the Orioles, and then we’ll work into Lords of the Realm. You know, I mean, because, I mean, I don’t want to bore people to death, but because all they really care about is, who are we signing? And, you know, Ryan Helsley, and are they? You know, it’s all about the local fandom. I get it. Yeah, dealing Grayson Rodriguez for an outfielder who they hope it’s 30 home runs this year, and they signed one last year for $20 million a year that they were hoping the same thing for. So it’s been a really curious off season so far, all the way around to the press conference with Mike Elias, with the old manager who knew he was getting fired. Just really weird corporate optics about Katie Griggs, and the kind of letters that I get from people who used to work, from her anonymously and just I’m paying attention to all of it, including Katie Griggs, who’s speaking to the connects group on Elvis’s birthday, where I’m signed up for a breakfast to hear her speak to three, 400 Baltimore business owners. They’re trying to sell the game here. Eric and part of selling the game, when I talk to Luke, who reports, it’s just give me the ball, give me the ball, give me the ball. Sign a picture. Sign a picture. Make team better. Make team better. I don’t think that moves tickets at all, does it move bobbleheads? It doesn’t move any of that, but it does move some sort of consumer confidence for people outside of town like you, or people inside of town like me to say, is this different than Angelos? What is this? What are the Oriole what? What do they want to be when they grow up?

Eric Fisher  03:57

Yeah, and that’s the thing. And this is the thing that we were wanting everybody around baseball at the end of the Angelos era, and certainly now into the Rubinstein era, was a consistent commitment from ownership to invest in a sustained winner, and not a one year thing, but a continued, sustained investment and a sustained winner. And we didn’t see that at the end of the Angelos era, and I haven’t seen it from the Rubinstein era. It’s, I have to be frank, I think it’s been a bit of a profound disappointment that we expected a new day with this franchise. And it doesn’t feel like a new day. They seem like they’re just kind of limping along while the economic powers of the Leaguer racing farther ahead in front of them. And it’s also important to note that the rest of the Al East is getting very serious in a big hurry. That really the story of baseball right now? Yes, the Dodgers are the back to back champions, the Blue Jays. They’re for real and. Are. They’re going hardcore here because they have the entire country of Canada as their market, and Rogers Communications, which owns the team, they’re making sports really a focal point of their entire corporate

Nestor Aparicio  05:13

Dallas Cowboys of Canada. I shouldn’t say that because hockey’s the Dallas Cowboys of Canada, you know, like, literally, but, you know, I was there on opening day last year. Eric so freezing my ass off, I cut my foot open.

Eric Fisher  05:27

Well, I was there for the World Series. It was incredible to see how this team is just completely the whole country, how the city of Toronto and the country has embraced this team. It’s like few things I’ve ever seen.

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Nestor Aparicio  05:39

Well, I mean, and let’s go to by the way, Eric Fisher, tell me where you’re working out, what you’re doing, how people can find you, because it’s very important now that massing has at least been settled, there’s no more lawsuit that at least we keep you in scope here. Yeah, so you’re my mess and insider, yeah,

Eric Fisher  05:55

well, and we still have mass and questions out there, because we got to figure out what the NATs are going to do now. Now they’re a free agent out in the market, but I’m with front office sports now, and we are a multi platform media organization covering the business of sports. We’re about 10 years old now, growing like a weed, which is a great thing in the media business right now. I’m on our newsletter team, but we’ve got a website, a podcast. We’re getting into live events. We’re doing a bunch of different things. And, you know, like I said, we’re at that intersection of sports business and culture, all right.

Nestor Aparicio  06:31

So for my audience, they know I’m an old fart, right? I’ve been doing this a long time, and I go back to being on the radio in the 80s and 90s, talking about selling tickets and Camden Yards gets built, and it’s sponsorships and club seats and and then bought a radio station and actually sat with Joe Foss back in the day about rights fees and what Bal was willing to pay. And then, of course, the owner comes in and F’s up John Miller, so the broadcast become awful, doing despicable things at every turn the owner did here. But the sport itself really got well when ESPN and Nesson and the yes network and Fox Sports started funding all of this. This is how the Expos wound up in DC. It’s why Angelo’s fought to steal all the mass and money, which he did, hundreds of millions of dollars a year, every year, for years and years and years coming off a cable television that they have found these pots of money above and beyond, selling tickets in the beginning and selling some beers at the ballpark and milking the cow and whatever, having a promotional night to sell tickets, tickets, tickets, tickets. In the bill veck era to I don’t know if they know what their products going to be. They think it’s winning baseball. They think it’s ticket sales, beard, you know, parking, land ownership, around batteries and but the media part of this has sustained this thing and grown this thing this century, for a quarter of a century, for sure, and it’s drying up badly, especially with the Sinclair boys here down the street, you know, waving the Trump flag. And I, I don’t see anything in Katie Griggs eyes or rob manford’s eyes that could explain to somebody smarter than me, like you, how it works, how it’s going to work, the way it’s going to work, where the business model is, and we have a potential work stoppage next year, and the Orioles are in the middle of this. And I keep marrying the concept Eric and tell me that I’m wrong, because these guys are so rich. Oh, they’re so rich, it doesn’t matter. Let me make it rain up in his MFR, feels to me like when you come in and you give John Angelos 1,000,000,008 to go play, you know, games in Nashville, that when you’re that deep in 1,000,000,008 into your money, and the things not throwing off money, and you don’t have a business plan, and you don’t have a star player, and you don’t have fans in your stadium, and there’s another team 35 miles away that like, when I look at the Orioles ledger sheet, and you want them to spend, spend, spend, and everybody’s like, I want it to feel different. It’ll feel different if they give a picture $200 million if they would done that with Corbin burns last year. And I’m thinking, where’s the money coming from? Because that’s the thing I never seem to hear from any of them, other than we used to get 80 million, 90 million a year from our TV rights and all that. Now they’re making it up on the fly. And I think one thing that Rubenstein’s people, first of all, I don’t think they were naive. I know they were naive because I’ve met them, and I’ve talked to them about all sorts of things they were naive about, but maybe even the work stoppage coming their way, which Angelos was naive about that 35 years ago, too. But for me, not having players and money tethered to how we’re going to make that money is really. Problematic for being counter billionaires who are eagerty and Rubenstein are saying, Well, okay, well, put this in, but where, how are we going to make money around here? Where? Where are these premium ticket holders that we’re throwing everybody out of the Jim Henneman press box for? That’s where I’m sitting is. I keep asking day after day, where’s the money coming from? And the fans are like, just sign a picture, sign a pitcher. And I keep going back to the business head in me, saying, where’s their business model as a sport, as a local entity, as a media entity?

Eric Fisher  10:30

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Yeah, it’s a fair question. I do think, though, that some of those direct revenue lines, even the ones that are in transition, that attendance, you know, those media rights, even though that’s becoming much more of a direct to consumer kind of thing, you’re not just getting money from everybody, whether or not they watch the games. You’re now getting that media money directly from your fans. A lot of that would just get better if they again would win for more than one year and prove that they were like, seriously in it. That’s number one. But I do think number two this deal with the state to renovate the ballpark and then go on to sort of a phase two with a mixed use development, you know, the Braves. I mean, we see their numbers because they’re publicly traded the battery in the real estate portion is so crucially important, they’re making, you know, north of $700 million a year. They were north of 300 just in this last quarter, which is the heart of the season, they

Nestor Aparicio  11:34

were giving a neighborhood man, I mean, completely different kind of deal, 100%

Eric Fisher  11:39

but they could, they can move in that the Orioles could move in that direction. So you get a sustained winner on the field, and you get some of that ancillary development income coming in. I still think it’s viable. I don’t think it’s a lost cause, but I mean, after 20 years of losing slash mediocrity, I think it’s fair for a lot of fans out there to be skeptical as to, again, what is these long term commitment? You know, because it’s not, it’s not really the fans responsibility to prop this up. Hell or High Water. Necessarily. It’s on the you know, it’s a two way street. It’s not all on the fans here.

Nestor Aparicio  12:20

Well, the billion eight going in is a real freaking number, right? Eric, I mean, oh yeah. Like, yeah. Everybody I talked to is way smarter than me. They’re like, yeah, Rubenstein runs around like he’s got the Magna Carta and all. He’s billionaire Money’s no object. I don’t know, man, I don’t like he loves baseball that much. Yeah, I’m saying, like, literally, and rich guys didn’t get rich by throwing money around like that, especially with tender arms that blow out. And I mean, they’ve already made some curious baseball moves that we can get to in a minute as well. But I’m always more concerned about where their real intentions are, about profit versus expense, where this is coming from. And I always say, Where’s the idea? Where’s the idea that’s going to make it the battery, where’s the idea that’s going to get people down, squirting people in the outfields what they’ve come up with, and that was an Angelos holdover, right? Like bobble heads for the owner. They have their promotional schedule out already now, trying to get people to buy things for Christmas and whatnot. And I don’t, they don’t have anything in the stocking. To your point, right? I mean, to recommend their last place team. They were down a half a million people last year. Interest level and what I’m sure you know, being a astute business guy, they’ve pissed off everybody with their Birdland membership. They’ve angered their primary core fans, and they’ve been banning people on social media for speaking out about it. Like, yeah, mindless, this isn’t the last three weeks.

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Eric Fisher  13:57

Man, yeah, there’s a real retail politics level to this. And I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. There was a great model out there to learn from in terms of the Astros and the Cubs, and when those new ownerships came in, Jim crane and Tom Ricketts, respectively, they went out to every function you could think of, every Chamber of Commerce. They were basically at the opening of a door. Come with us on this journey. We’re going to suck for a while, but then we’re going to get good. We need you please come with us along the way. And then they ended up winning World Series. I’ve not seen anything like that in your town.

Nestor Aparicio  14:31

Eric Fisher is here. He is with front office sports. They do the business of sports, so the work stoppage and the problems, and you said they’re going to start negotiating. I remember that when it was, you know, Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker back in the day, right? So Mark Belanger was another, you know, a guy on the union trail here in Brooks. You know everybody, um, I’ve been through the history of all this from Lords of the Realm. I got, you know, I was on the radio in the summer in 1994 talking about Joe Smith instead of talking back. Now, ripton, um, how’s this going to play out in your mind? Like, what? What will we be talking about in April and then again, in July and August and September? What’s at the root of this, other than breaking the union, which is always kind

Eric Fisher  15:14

of at the root. Well, I think really the first issue, a lot of this, Rob Manfred said, the Commissioner of baseball, he’s really at the center of this, that the union is very aligned and unified, as they always are, that they do not want a cap, and they see is a cap, a salary cap as a restraint on compensation. And they’ve been against this for 60 plus years, the entire history of their organization. So they’re very clear, and they feel and they fear that the owners are going to propose a salary cap again, and they’ve unsuccessfully done this multiple times in the past. But the issue with ownership this time around is we have a real sort of Hawk and Dove division that you got some hardliners out there that say the time is right. There’s too much salary and competitive disparity we need. This is the time where the caps finally got to happen. And then you’ve got some doves on the other side of ownership that are saying writ large and sort of put the Baltimore issues to the side. Across baseball, attendance is up. Viewership is up. A lot of other measures of fan affinity are up. You know, particularly in the markets that have Otani and judge and Paul Skeens and Ellie de la Cruz and folks of that sort. You know, writ large, global interest is growing. There’s a lot of good things happening in baseball, and there is a group of owners who don’t want to upset that gravy train right now, and so how Rob Manfred sort of coalesces all of that and comes up with something that he can propose and sell to the players that’s really kind of where we are right now, and that’s going to be a big part of what the next six months or So look like.

Nestor Aparicio  17:00

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Is there any circumstance where there could be a salary cap and a floor where there would be guaranteed money spent? Which, I mean, come on, Eric, the problem here hasn’t been the Yankees or the Dodgers in a real picture other than the garden. It’s always, it’s always been the people taking the money and pocketing it. You know, some of them out of the game. Now, it’s been 2025, years since the system was put in to be a luxury tax, you know, to to welfare for the poor teams that always remain poor. Somehow, I don’t smell anything about that that would change, other than saying, if you want to be in Major League Baseball, you’re going to spend 100 between 125 and $225 million a year. A year, or some number where you can’t come in and spend $34 million like the Orioles did a couple years ago, and say, this is Major League Baseball.

Eric Fisher  17:50

So looking at the other leagues, they all have caps. But basically, they came about in two ways. Most instances, it was by breaking the union, and things like hockey, where you had year long work stoppages, and you know, you went sort of down that hard line route. That’s one sort of major Avenue. The other major avenues what the NFL did in 1993 and basically have the Grand Bargain, where they came in with a salary cap, but the players on the other side got unrestricted free agency for the first time, and you had the Reggie White deal and all that sort of thing. So you basically have the carrot or the stick, essentially. And if baseball were to go down the carrot route, one interesting idea I’ve heard, I have no idea whether the players would ultimately go for this, is really change the levers of when arbitration and free agency start in particular in right now, arbitration begins like after the fourth year and then after the seventh year. For free agency. If you move those sliders back, you had a cap. But move those sliders back, we’re now a player instead of really hitting free agency once in their career, and having one big payday, potentially could get two, and you essentially have a player, particularly if they come up into the major leagues at 2122 get hit free agency at, say, 2627 and then do it again at like, 31 years old. Maybe that’s the grand bargain. Again, I have no idea if the players would actually go for that, but that is the that is an idea I have heard in terms of making the carrot end of this work

Nestor Aparicio  19:31

would feel to me like nobody would have the appetite for war. But what do I know?

Eric Fisher  19:34

Right? Well, again, you know the macro indices around the game in terms of revenue, viewership, attendance, they’re all really good. And there’s much you know, we’re old enough to remember what happened in 94 and 95 and it took a lot of things, like Cal with the streak to bring fans back, and that was going to be a multi year thing, and it really still kind of was. Has been accelerated in a lot of ways, by Cal by the Yankees dynasty, by McGuire Sosa, you know. And they basically getting fans back over a three, four year period, what would have otherwise probably been 10 plus. And if they do this thing, and they’re out for an extended period of time, you know, we could be looking at again many, many years in terms of bringing fans back.

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Nestor Aparicio  20:23

Yeah, I don’t know where young people are, Eric, but I, you know, and I’m an old guy at this point, but when Ryan mountcastle is making $8 million a year, why does he want to walk off the job or be locked out? You know what I mean? Like, there’s a point for me where, like, this particular group of young men probably don’t have the same appetite that Andy Nestor Smith or Kurt flood

Eric Fisher  20:41

had you bring up a fantastic point on two levels here the last deal in 22 the executive subcommittee of the Union, which is made up at your union player leaders, made up of veterans, they recommended not taking the deal, the rank and file overruled them, And that’s how that thing got done. So prior,

Nestor Aparicio  21:03

what’s average player make three and a half million formula? What’s the average number?

Eric Fisher  21:09

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Yeah, average is around four now. But your guys that are more in that 15, 20 million plus range, they were recommending to not take the 2020, 22 deal, and the younger guys, the lower paid guys, in greater numbers, said, do take the deal. And that’s how they ended up getting back to work. So, so based off of that, Rob Manfred has been spending a lot of time in player meetings, you know, and this whole past

Nestor Aparicio  21:38

year, yeah, and the old guys were telling me, get the hell out, right? Like, oh yeah. And so yeah.

Eric Fisher  21:41

Had the whole dust up with Bryce Harper and all of that, but you could very well see a situation like that rise up again, where your guys with five years of less of Major League experience go for something in a way that the veterans do not.

Nestor Aparicio  21:56

Eric Fisher’s here. We’re talking war, peace and baseball. He’s been front office sports. He does the business of sports, but we’re primarily focused on baseball here, and primarily, I think, on the Orioles and the market. What is the market? When you clearly indicate some owners are like, we’re going out, we’re going to break these MF ers, and you know, there’s going to be a strike, we I’m going to prepare for war. I’m going to spend this off season or shed this off season in a way that suits my my payroll. And I don’t need to make the playoffs next year. I don’t need to, you know, we can go with like the old Andy McPhail line to Mike Flanagan, which was, why feed him steak when the week, when the elite hamburger, you know? I mean, we don’t need to feed him filet mignon. And I don’t know that the Orioles people, I don’t know what their philosophy is, which is half the problem, you know, we suffered that through angelos, which was, we don’t know what crazy issue is thinking about today. I thought these people would be smarter and more in tune with like and when I met Rubenstein, and I did meet him a year I don’t know if you know this, Eric, I met him. He Eric, I met him a year ago, night before Trump got reelected. I was out at the temple in at Beth, the fellow he spoke literally, night before the elections. A lot of Israel stuff, but it was, you know, baseball. He’s signing balls, you know, whatever. I met him. I shook his hand, and I said to him, Mr. Rubenstein, there’s been a lot of trauma here. He turned like he didn’t hear me, and that was the end of me, you know, and I’m like, and this was a couple of weeks after the stadium was empty for the playoff games, and so that would and then they finished the last place. Since then, so, and he gave a bobble head out since then, I look at this and say, I don’t know where the Orioles are on that, but if they are under the these crazy people are going to shut the sport down next year. How are we going to manage that financially in a year? But we’re not selling tickets. We’re not selling sponsorships. I go on my LinkedIn. They’re trying to hire people day after day after day, and it’s Christmas time, and they’re not selling any of their tickets. I know for a fact that the sales are awful for the sweets because they’re going out in the market with this premium. They think people want to spend more for hot dogs and beer than they’re already spent. And they haven’t been to Baltimore. Like, I don’t know who they think their market is, but like, they’re confused about a lot. I don’t know where they would sit in all this, but I have to think, and that’s why I brought this up in the beginning. There’s no revenue. There’s no media deal, the mass and things up in the air. As you pointed out, the NATs were for sale. They’re not for sale. Sports going under in six months or eight months, we’re going to shut it down. Can we really win a World Series this year? I i Don’t they have a new manager. They have all of these things in moving parts, but I would think the really rich guys, arroghetti and Rubenstein, look at this thing and say, there could be utter war in nine months here. And I don’t know that we thought about that two years ago. We bought into this, and now we have to figure out which side we’re going to sit on. In this thing that they don’t really have a big vote in, you know? I mean, like, if this thing’s going to happen, if it’s willed to happen, the players are given a middle finger and just going to go, then there’s going to be war, right? And I would think all of these owners, as the winter meetings happen, and the fans here and everywhere want their owners to get in and invest other than in Sacramento, of course, I’m also a pragmatist and a business owner and saying there’s so much uncertainty in the sport right now that I don’t know that how they would think about it, how they would perceive it in Baltimore. Yeah.

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Eric Fisher  25:36

And again, that gets back to my point is that they need owning a sports team is retail politics. And you may not, you know plenty of other owners who are out there a lot, and you may not necessarily agree with everything that they say and do, but at least you know where they stand, and the fact that you’re saying, I don’t know where they stand, and you’re there every day that that strikes me as big problem,

Nestor Aparicio  26:01

not to them, though, not to sports in general, in communicating with their fan bases, right? I mean, we have a website for that go there, and everything we want to tell you will tell you anything else is a lie, like Justin Tucker for as an example here. So, I mean, there really is a synapse there with a baseball franchise here that’s trying to make his way because, as you’ve pointed out, if you’re comparing yourself to other places where it is successful, you’re doing it wrong. You know what I mean? Because you’re not them. You’re not this isn’t Cal and Frank and Brooks and Boog anymore, and people are just going to roll out the ball and opening day is going to be sold out, or that opening days, even a premium thing. And every time Katie Griggs opens her mouth, Eric, honestly, she only talks about one thing, the All Star game, that’s gonna fix that’s gonna save them, that’s gonna do it, everybody’s gonna just run and give them hundreds of 1000s of dollars for sponsorships to get two tickets to an all star game that you could buy the night of the game for 200 bucks every year, everywhere it goes. So I it really is a I’m giving you what their messaging is, and I am and I listen to all of them, I listen more than their fans do. I go seek it out and pay $100 to hear them speak, because I am really trying to figure this out, because it’s been my life’s work. And at some point I really thought, when all this was over and you and I were done bickering about all the mass and money and Angelo’s that there would at least be something that smelled like something better. And I can’t honestly say they’re in last place. Nobody’s going to the games. They’re arrogant, obstinate and out to law,

Eric Fisher  27:33

as I was starting to say, the whole division, not just Toronto, because Toronto is a power now, but the Yankees and the Red Sox are trying to load up, in the razor under new ownership, that division is, which was already very competitive, is only getting tougher.

Nestor Aparicio  27:47

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The Dylan sees thing. You see that as the beginning of what the Blue Jays may spend in the next couple months.

Eric Fisher  27:53

Oh yeah, oh yeah. And they just picked up this guy who was the most valuable player of the Korean League, you know, and there’s more, and all the big guys are still out there. And obviously they’re not going to get all the big guys, but you’re Kyle Tucker’s and your Kyle schwarbers And all those in Cody bellingers, all those guys are still out there. And, yeah, there’s, there’s a lot more moves from the Blue Jays coming. And again, a lot of the starts right from the very top, because what Rogers communication has done is they’ve now, they now all own all of Maple Leaf sports and entertainment as well. So basically, they own most all of the teams in Toronto and a bunch of other assets, sports assets around Canada. They’ve got the net, they’ve got the RSN, they’ve got facilities, they’ve got naming rights on facilities that they don’t own. They’ve got all these assets. And they put, basically put all this sports stuff under one giant umbrella, and they’re making it a focal point of the entire company. Now they’re also a huge communications business, and they’ve got, you know, cable business and mobile business and all that, but the sports part of this at a very high corporate level, as one of the largest companies in all of Canada sports sits at the center of that, and the Blue Jays sit at the center of the sports.

Nestor Aparicio  29:16

You know, he’s really happy about that Getty Lee, because Getty Lee has a better chance to win than I do right now.

Eric Fisher  29:21

Eric is a fellow lifelong rush guy. I I was very happy for him, and I saw him up, saw him up at the games there, and he’s with his family and his grandson, taking in the games. And it was, it was a personal thing for him, but also a family thing for him. And that’s the great thing about baseball, is how it spans generations. And you know, yes, we love the music, but we also love how he loves the game and how it connects his generations, too.

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Nestor Aparicio  29:48

That look on his face when they were going to the World Series, when the ball

Eric Fisher  29:51

is pure, it’s just totally pure. Well, in

Nestor Aparicio  29:55

his donations to the Negro Baseball Museum and Library and King. City stuff. But more than that, it’s just like, as a fan in Baltimore, I’m wondering, like, where my last name is, Aparicio. I come at this honest, you know, like, so you and I have been at this a long time. I wish I had better news. I hope to come back to you at some point of rent, spring training, and we’re talking about them doing something, and that’s like, Baltimore Street to do they’re gonna do something. And you know, they spent 28 million on a relief pitcher. They made, they’ve made parts of the team better. The Rodriguez thing is strange, right? You would agree with that, yeah.

Eric Fisher  30:32

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But again, this gets back to my bigger point, that it’s not on the fans that the Orioles, like any other team, they’re selling the product. So make something that the fans want to get engaged with, and make them believe that this is not just for now, but but a sustained thing. And I tell you, the tenor will change, but again, that one great year that you had a couple years ago, it proved to be a flash in the pan right now. It just like, you know, it was a temporary sugar high, and what will help change the oxygen around this whole conversation is moving past the sugar high into, okay, this is going to be a for real, sustained thing,

Nestor Aparicio  31:13

and it’s gonna be very hard to talk about that with labor problems. I mean, we’re gonna bore the hell out of everybody, every time we get together, talking about, like, Is there gonna be an end of the season is who’s going to walk in, who’s going to walk out, who’s going to blink, all of that stuff. And I, you know, I’d like to do that from the perch of, you know, I don’t know, the pennant race somewhere in July or August, but we’ll see Eric Fisher’s here talking about front office sports agent, yeah. What are you been writing about lately? Because we just did a whole 30 minutes on baseball, but you do a whole bunch of stuff, and there’s a lot of business going on around the NFL.

Eric Fisher  31:42

Yeah, you know, you bring up the NFL. Great point. I’ve been doing a lot of stadium work lately that the command I was down in my old stomping grounds do on a lot of the approval stuff for the commander’s stadium. And that’s off and running now, and that’s going to open in 2030 that’s at RFK site, right on the RFK site. It’s going to be great. The Browns are building out in the suburbs. They’ve they’ve now worked out all of their parameters. They’ve got a new stadium going. The Chiefs are trying to decide which side of the Kansas, Missouri line they’re going to are they going to renovate Arrowhead Stadium or build a new place on either side of the border? Chicago’s going through their deliberations. The bears are trying to get something done. We have construction already going with the Titans and the bills. So I’ve been doing a lot of NFL stadium work lately.

Nestor Aparicio  32:31

Well, the buffalo thing, I mean, that’s, you know, that’s the Titans have a new crib, right? They’re under construction, yeah, and they’re going to get a Super Bowl there, and they’re going to do it all up at some point, right?

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Eric Fisher  32:41

Well, I don’t have to tell you about Nashville. So, you know, people are going to want to go there for those big events,

Nestor Aparicio  32:47

not me. I’m going to go where the rock and roll is. And, you know, I really feel bad if I get Getty on. I’m going to say, Dude, this chore is great news for all of us. But you, you know, the night that the Blue Jays win the World Series, you might be on stage in Portland or something, right? Like they booked the tour right into October and November. So that’s good for me. It’s good for us. Might not be good for getting his grandkid, you know?

Eric Fisher  33:08

Yeah, I’m not sure I was looking at the dates. And then, you know, I’ll be there for one of the New York shows, and you know where I’m at, but

Nestor Aparicio  33:17

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I might be like a deadhead next year. I may just cancel Baltimore positive and just go on the road with Getty and Alex. I mean, that’s just, you know, if I get the opportunity to do that, but,

Eric Fisher  33:26

yeah, although you might need a billionaire, speaking of,

Nestor Aparicio  33:29

speaking of the big money, I’ll be sneaky in the back door. Don’t worry about it, man, I’ll find my way. Don’t you worry. You know, there you go. Oh man, we’re gonna recite the words the red bar cheddar the next time we get together. But for now, we’ll just do yy Z Eric Fisher is here. I am here. He’s a front office sports Hey, man, baseball game. Maybe you and me. Maybe a hot dog with some proper ketchup and relish. What do you think? And a crab cake. Oh, oh, you’re gonna join me in fadeleys Are you don’t make promises you’re not going to keep the new fadleys at Lexington market is there for you before games? I do it all the time. So we can. We’ll organize the ships to meet somewhere, milkshake and a crab cake. Eric Fisher’s here. He’s front office sports always a pleasure to talk baseball with people I like, and now, actually, Dan Connolly, former of the sun. I been texting him. He’s got, like, a day job now he’s having and I text him, and I’m like, I have so few people that I love having on who know baseball so well that we can talk and actually educate people. And I always feel that way, not only about Eric Fisher, but Barry Bloom’s coming on next week. So I get all my mafia getting together here in

Eric Fisher  34:38

the offseason, one of my oldest and dearest friends. Well, you know, I don’t know.

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Nestor Aparicio  34:41

I put the two of you together, man, I shrink in there for baseball knowledge, but I try to keep up and counter punch with you guys.

Eric Fisher  34:48

Boom. Skis been at it for a lot longer than I have. He’s forgotten more than I know.

Nestor Aparicio  34:52

You know, I always give him a hard time about having baseball die just when I was a boy and seeing his name in the bylines and always wanting to grow up and be Barry bloom. I do that with Howard Balzer too, because I got football digest too. So you know, it’s great having my heroes and legends come on the show, and they’re yours too. So it’s even younger. He is Eric Fisher. I am Nestor. It’s baseball season. Always here. Just ask Luke. He’ll tell you, we’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.