Hall of Famer Tim Brown shares some Raiders and Ravens moments with Coach Billick and Jaws

Jaws and Tim Brown with Coach Billick
Jaws and Tim Brown with Coach Billick
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Sometimes our Super Bowl Radio Row set gets a little overwhelmed with spontaneity and old friends. This 2018 chat in Minneapolis began with Ron Jaworski talking about the Eagles on the verge of winning their first Super Bowl as our partner Coach Billick and then Hall of Famer Tim Brown joined this epic conversation from the Mall of America.


game, nick foles, quarterback, run, coach, years, hall, changed, play, baltimore, joe, nfl, tim brown, win, backup quarterback, ball, fame, joe flacco, big, eagles


Ron Jaworski, Tim Brown, Nestor Aparicio, Brian Billick

Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Welcome back wn S G Towson Baltimore and wn S T dotnet this guy’s already punched me throw me a bass he’s all fired up I’m gonna get you more fired

Ron Jaworski  00:09

I thought we’re here to talk about the Arena Football League and the ball of the Washington Valley super team that come up to the number one team the Philadelphia soul All right now we’ll never saw you silent like that all right

Nestor Aparicio  00:31

you know, first off, I must say we’re brought to you by Howard bank, but I’m gonna change my hat right now. i In honor of gym shorts and a view and of the Torrey Smith. It’s not quite an Eagles thing. It’s it’s not totally an Eagles thing. But it’s, it’s the closest you’re gonna get from me. It’s green. It’s green. And I figure you know whether they win or lose, they’re not gonna beat me up.

Ron Jaworski  00:58

It’s the nicest fans in America are in Philadelphia because you I’m telling you. I sit in the stands. They’re wonderful. You’re still living in the 60s in order to snowball the tentacles over it

Nestor Aparicio  01:14

is a tough town.

Ron Jaworski  01:16

Of course it is. Funny softies

Nestor Aparicio  01:21

this back in 1980. Obviously, you’re part of it 12 or 13 years ago, whenever was this one little different little optimism little feeling like this might happen this time.

Ron Jaworski  01:32

You know, I can speak clearly on 1980 You know, we thought we were gonna win the football game. And we end up losing to the Raiders. We were a good football team. We had beaten the raiders in the regular season. We thought we were gonna be the world champions. We weren’t we didn’t play our best football. The 2004 Eagles team, a very good football team. I can’t tell you how that locker room felt. But I’m sure they thought they could win the game. They probably should have won the game. They probably think they outplayed the Patriots in that game now. So spin it forward to now. I would probably think this is the hottest of the three Super Bowl teams coming into the game. They are playing great football. I mean, last week was a really clean game by the film

Nestor Aparicio  02:14

kind of defense you’re gonna need to have against Brady trending in that.

Ron Jaworski  02:18

And I always say that in this game. The most expensive piece of real estate in the world during this game is going to be five yards behind Tom Brady. Take that three foot by three foot square go fit five yards behind Tom Brady or 15 feet. Whoever wins that piece of real estate will win the game. If Tom can stand clean on that spot that nine square feet. Patriots win the game. It Fletcher Cox Brandon Graham, your guy from Baltimore, Tim Jernigan, thanks for letting us sign them. If they don’t get to that spot, if they get to it then the Eagles will win

Nestor Aparicio  02:53

if you expect me to be the one to get Philadelphia the respect for this on Monday if you’re having a parade your defensive coordinators from Baltimore that’s all I want you today you had to come down you had to import you had to take the best of Baltimore pull it out just like you gave us hardball right gave us Joe Flacco pretty good trades Joe.

Ron Jaworski  03:12

Oh my god your business partner. Joe was of course Ramblewood Country Club Joe Flacco and I are partners doing very well when your neighborhood stop on by. I don’t drive the beverage car. Oh, wait. It’s we call it seven tap tavern, which is Bay Delphi number seven. So seven tap tavern. But I did hang Joe’s Jerry. So the only five and seven is Joe.

Nestor Aparicio  03:38

I’m pretty sure I’ve talked to you a long time on the air. Joe Flacco was my favorite all time and and you know, I’ve been doing this for years. My favorite athlete and to talk to as what kind of guy he is what he stands for. I’m a big Joe fan. Where are you with Joe at this point? Advanced need some help around the ball? Oh, these things that are going on in Baltimore. You guys are having a party but shot he’s back running, having a 130 Friday press conference in the afternoon. The day before Ray Lewis goes in the Hall of Fame. We got 30,000 empty seats. We got some issues in Baltimore.

Ron Jaworski  04:12

Right. No question about it. And you know, football is the consummate team game. Joe is still a quarterback that you could win the Superbowl with. Now the clock is ticking. You know, Joe, what’s your 10 now 10 years in this league. The clock is ticking. You know you can start seeing the cumulative effect of the injuries. He has been beat up. He’s taken a lot of hits. So they must understand John and Ozzy and all the guys there. They’ve probably got Flacco for a smaller window right now. You better build around that guy. Look at what how HE rounds like Luke Joe. I’ve only been saying it’s the last. Look, look what Holly Roseman did in Philly. It’s an example. There’s a reason Phillies here. Howie Roseman did a really, really good job of building his team. He realized, Okay, we got Carson Wentz. We’d like him, he’s going to be our guy. Let’s get the supporting cast. What do they do? Well Shawn Jeffery, Torrey Smith, four weeks this season goodbye. We’re really not where we need to be his running back. Jay Ajayi all these moves are made to help the quarterback because you got the guy. So if you got the guy, you better build around and I’m saying, Oh, we’re or foundation is defense. That’s what we’re spending our money. No. Amen. Today’s NFL is different. It’s 11 personnel. It’s one back. It’s one tight end. It’s three wines. You know that that’s today’s, that’s today’s NFL. And if you don’t adapt to that, you know what you’re gonna be eight Nate every year, you’re gonna be seven and nine or nine and seven. You’ve got to change your thinking. I just got done talking to guys in Dallas. You guys are still running. 1985 90 Emmitt Smith offensive that fullback lead way to tight ends. That’s my era. It’s over. It’s done.

Nestor Aparicio  05:47

Where are you with Monday morning with your guy. You know?

Ron Jaworski  05:50

He’s got to come out. He’s got to change in the mind. He was right here. We’d probably have this debate. I love Marty. Here’s a guy that knows your ravens pretty well. He’ll probably say the same thing. You got to open it up a little bit. That’s today.

Nestor Aparicio  06:01

Somebody’s coach. Oh, here we go. I’ve lost control which we’re talking about salutely lost control. No, my air

Brian Billick  06:10

what you’re talking about? Is it in 2.5 seconds from the point of or is it 1.753 1.5 2.1

Ron Jaworski  06:21

to five. I read your book and I learned that

Nestor Aparicio  06:26

we’ve already picked it off course just so you know, he’s already criticized, says the offensive need to change. He’s already beaten up Dallas and I’ve already worn agree. So that’s

Brian Billick  06:36

a good day. You gotta be in hog heaven, though.

Ron Jaworski  06:39

It’s kind of fun. It’s kind of fun. Great. I wish you had a little nicer weather. Oh, hey, by the way. And I’m from Buffalo

Nestor Aparicio  06:47

20 years he’s been telling me all Minnesota they you know, it kills the mosquitoes and I got the lake house and come on. Put the boat out the boat. This is not a climate meant for people from the equator.

Brian Billick  07:00

As I grew up in LA, and it was the idea that you could freeze it now you can’t really freeze to death. No, that’s that’s just that’s US media. Yeah, as you know, you can’t freeze to death worse. 40

Nestor Aparicio  07:13

seconds of my year. We’re moving from the shuttle linear. Literally, my chest was hurting

Brian Billick  07:18

real men. All right. So

Ron Jaworski  07:22

as the coach, what you asked me about to want to have I don’t want to have any way of sliding his opinion on the Ravens no on what did he do offensively where the game is going? Where’s

Nestor Aparicio  07:31

the game going offensively? Right. I did a lot different than when you were here as the Vikings offensive coordinator. 20 years ago.

Brian Billick  07:37

I will tell you this. I wrote a book in 1995. On offensive game planning, I told you mostly about the ratios of how many plays you need per situation. How many for instance, third one in the open field. You’re gonna want to one time a game. Coaches bring in 20 plays you don’t need 20 plays. So anyways, they approached me said let’s can we update it? So I went back and it was before an offseason project I did all the research, the numbers haven’t changed. This game has not changed in terms of those ratios. Now, of course, everybody says the game is going to be the college game. I don’t buy it. It has spread out a little bit. the read option obviously to a degree everybody so well. Let’s just do why don’t we do it like the college game. One you don’t have enough quarterbacks to do with the cut because the guy will get killed in the NFL. The game has changed to a degree. The tempo has changed a little bit average number of plays really hasn’t gone up that high. So it has changed a little bit. But I don’t think to the degree that a lot of people think it has because of the spread you know these these RPOs and stuff we were throwing smoke routes 25 years ago, why don’t we

Ron Jaworski  08:48

absolutely but but you know, here we are here was the difference. It’s just my feeling. I love the RPOs but it’s incumbent upon the quarterback to be a really quick thinker because you’re gonna put that ball in the belly of a back and watch that linebacker and make a decision like that because those linemen blocking think it’s a run well if

Nestor Aparicio  09:05

you’re gonna play the quarterback pass when you get paid the quarterback $25 million, get trust them.

Ron Jaworski  09:09

Well, you better Yeah, but not everyone’s coach at some of these quarterbacks. You can’t run some of this stuff with Oh, and some are just you know, Nick Foles is they say it here’s why I agree with the coach 100% You can’t run a collegiate style offense NFL, there’s not enough quarterbacks. But Nick Foles is not a mobile quarterback. But they could run the RPOs because he’s smart. And it’s not about him running. It’s about him reading that linebacker where they’re dropping. Are they going with the back? Are they staying if he if he stays in that that hooks zone, you give him the ball off? The debit the

Brian Billick  09:40

difference? What they’ve done with Nick Foles? Because you’re right, you’re not going to run the read option with Nick Foles. So instead of where Russell Wilson will read, maybe keep it not that often but keep it and that’s the threat. They go well no, we’re not gonna do it the Nick Foles so you read pull it out and throw the slant. Now what defenses are going to do like they do with the read option? Ethan, I’ve talked to defensive coordinators and as this continues to grow, it’s going to be simple. You’re going to have guys crashing off the end. I don’t care if they run for 1000 yards. If the quarterback is gonna stick that ball in there, whether he has the ball or not, you kick the living shit out of it. And you hit him and you hit him hard and make that’s remember Chip Kelly when he came in, and it was Terrell sucks in the preseason game. And Dean piece did a brilliant job said, you take off I don’t care if you make the tackle. You hit the quarterback every time. And Chip Kelly said wait a minute, that’s not legal. And league said yes, it is. He’s no longer gets the protection. That’s when Chip Kelly had to go. Okay, I gotta adjust this a little bit from what I was doing in college.

Nestor Aparicio  10:46

Both of you been at this a long time it used to coach player the thought of doing this with a backup quarterback at the late juncture of the year when that kid was the reason really they were there. This is a unique challenge all the way back to Hostetler or whatever, but this would not be anyone’s story book way to do.

Ron Jaworski  11:05

Here’s where Holly rose. You got to give them credit. A lot of credit. He had Chase Daniels Chase Daniels is not an NFL starting quarterback. He’s a nice solid backup he can fill in for half maybe a game. Give me a couple. They realize if anything did happen to Carson, they needed a solid backup how he felt, you know, I’m intimately involved with what they think even asked me sometimes what do I think we

Brian Billick  11:29

possibly have an opinion after 40 years? Yeah,

Ron Jaworski  11:32

usually wrong. But they say you know what, we got a good team here. So let’s get a guy in case something does happen to Carson. Yeah, you’re gonna take a little step back, but it’s been it’s been a baby step. I mean, Carson is having a special year, but Nick has stepped in and he’s a rep guy and coach knows about rep guys they need reps. They just got to keep practicing. Nick Foles missed the whole training camp and the preseason games. He had bad elbow today CBA doesn’t it to practice long enough we’re a backup quarterback and get reps also these thrusted to be the starting quarterback right and he wasn’t sharp but he knocked the rust off and lo and behold, he put to clean games together last time Doug

Brian Billick  12:06

and Doug transformed the offense around him United said departure from you know remember Bill Polian for all those years need Annapolis never had a backup really a backup to Peyton because it’s law if we lose Peyton we’re dead. And why why just limp along if you can’t win at all, why bother? So we’re gonna put our money elsewhere. You gotta be a damn good team. To make it to the Super Bowl with a backup quarterback course we did it. But we made that transition in four after four or five games to do it week 14 and a half to chant I give Doug Pierre he to me. He’s Coach of the Year tremendous job to adapt to the change from Carson Wentz to Nick Foles. And the job that they did and again give not only credit to Howie to pursuing that but paying for it. Yeah, that’s a chunk of your resources to put in a backup quarterback Joe’s

Nestor Aparicio  12:51

is here on behalf of Humana and the Wounded Warrior amputee football game, Kenny main came by and showed bruises and scars and show me his ankle all torn up. It was it was great. Invite me to play because I’m an amputee, you got to play PJ always says you want to play

Ron Jaworski  13:08

this is an absolutely inspiring football game. I get a bunch of NFL alumni guys to play the Wounded Warrior amputees. And we’re on 18 against those guys just playing the game. But when you see these warriors Yeah, that’s right. Yes, young young men and women that have defended we can do what we do. I mean,

Nestor Aparicio  13:26

so for you you’ve done a couple right I did

Brian Billick  13:28

a rack and I did Guantanamo and did you

Ron Jaworski  13:32

Yeah, I have not I’ve not done those all the everybody’s but that the Wounded Warrior amputee game is something I look forward to people believe in not not you know not a dry eye in the place.

Nestor Aparicio  13:46

Every year he leads them up we try to knock them be nice to Kenny main you all he

Ron Jaworski  13:51

was he was a wreck this morning man. He was like limping around. And and by the way, a special thanks to humana. They support this game, and they’re 100% behind it so we can continue to grow it and honor these young men and women that have sacrificed so much for us. All right, I

Nestor Aparicio  14:04

gotta get rid of John’s Kochi. Stay in

Ron Jaworski  14:05

good nick green hat though. I

Brian Billick  14:06

know that you need to come to stand on our playbook show. I mean, bring in the real X’s and O’s. That’s what we do because God forbid 24 hours a day football that there’s actually 20 minutes of real fun. You

Ron Jaworski  14:18

know what we ought to make that a point? We should some real we ought to do we ought to have

Brian Billick  14:21

a playbook edge matchup.

Ron Jaworski  14:26

Balis here let’s go

Nestor Aparicio  14:30

to Philly will serve Oh

Brian Billick  14:31

that’ll be awesome. You

Ron Jaworski  14:36

know, coming to Philly with a green hand.

Nestor Aparicio  14:38

I know I have it on Monday, baby. Thanks, coach. I’m with Schwartz wherever he is I go. Alright, Coach Billy’s gonna stay here. So I brought you by our friends at Howard bank, of course. And I’m not wearing my Howard Bank Of course, and royal farms real fresh real fast and move on over coach sit down with us here. Let’s talk Some football. We got Tim Brown to

Brian Billick  15:04

Holly. Let me chime in here. There we go. How you doing? Gotta look good looking

Nestor Aparicio  15:08

jacket, doing extended coverage here. We’re throwing all the rules away moving Jaworski out moving Tim Brown. And you know, I remember Tim Brown when he walked into Hall of Fame and you were just like coming through here. And we were trying to figure out how to get you in the Hall of Fame. Well,

Tim Brown  15:21

I’ll tell you what, man, you never know how much you worried about something until you don’t have to worry about it anymore. So I gotta

Brian Billick  15:28

tell you what, I got to ask you this. You’re the perfect guy to ask. I got to sit with Ray Lewis about a month ago. Yeah, yeah, we were with an NFL Network. We were banking some tape for obviously the induction we all know race. First ballot Hall of Famer or there’s going to be an investigation. When we got to the end of the interview. We were talking about the knock on the door. Yeah. And what that meant, and he was talking about his mother, and I mean, it was very, very emotional. What’s it like going through that process, waiting for that knock on the door the night before, just find that you truly are.

Tim Brown  16:02

You know, the interesting thing is, I never waited. The previous five years, I was playing golf, I was doing something I was, you know, I was never in the room. This was the only time that I was in a room. I mean, before one time we were in New York, we were actually on a helicopter back from from a gig in Jersey to try and get back for the honors thing on this thing. So so for me I mean, that’s what everybody take don’t do that. Right. Don’t do that. anxiousness. Yeah, I mean, I mean, poor guy like Ray could be different. Because you know, you’re exactly right. Yeah, you know, but everybody said that, everybody? Well, you know,

Brian Billick  16:37

how do you? How do you mean, that was serious? I was only half joking. But if not, who there’s going to be an investigation. Right? There has to be if not Ray, who the the

Tim Brown  16:47

only the only problem with this hall of fame thing is those 4448 Guys, whatever it is in their room, they have the ability to do whatever they want to do and not be accountable for it. Because you’re not part of the process. Oh, no, no, no, they don’t have the form to the to to a Hall of Famers who are who are who are. God forbid.

Brian Billick  17:06

Let a Hall of Famer actually yes, yes. Your perspective who belongs in the hall? We say

Nestor Aparicio  17:12

that all the time. Baseball, basketball, it’s all the same.

Tim Brown  17:15

Yeah, but you know, the problem is, I mean, what the first five, four years or five years I didn’t go in, my guy who was presented me free cootie he would go around the room like hey, do you vote for Tim? Yeah, voted for Tim. You’ve everybody fixes it. So, you know, that’s the thing, man, you know, and you just never know what these guys are thinking. But, you know, I think things should definitely

Nestor Aparicio  17:40

ring over here. Let’s take a look at this year. And

Tim Brown  17:43

you have to say that with the voice of God, the ring of excellence.

Nestor Aparicio  17:47

Excellence. Appreciate Gabriel Lucena. Tim Brown, as well as his lovely wife, Cherie. How do we not get her on the camera? How did

Brian Billick  17:53

I know? Sit over here.

Nestor Aparicio  17:56

I’m gonna make you jealous. vago? Yeah. No, I don’t we we know it’s because Luke doesn’t want to be Luke’s camera shy. I’m pretty sure. There’s a chair over here. Give me Tell me back. Kay, and they’re involved in doing this because you got a ring on your finger. And I guess this one’s assigned to this one says you know, I’ve seen John Denson.

Tim Brown  18:22

Big as odd as I mean, he’s got to be

Nestor Aparicio  18:24

around my head.

Tim Brown  18:26

Yeah, I mean, they obviously do the ring of excellence. And you know, Jay Kay Jewelers has been such a great part of the Hall of Fame and everything that that we’ve done, but we’re here for Valentine’s Day, man. Well, hey, I

Nestor Aparicio  18:40

see I mean, listen

Tim Brown  18:41

to me, bro. Go to K to happen. So hey, look, I didn’t win a big one because of somebody sitting next to the big one. That was a bad idea when the big one was

Nestor Aparicio  19:00

breached and I haven’t even given you

Tim Brown  19:02

know, we never forget about that. So I have nightmares about Shannon Sharpe going 96 years old. A dog sled route.

Brian Billick  19:08

That’s interesting. One match treasures. I go to bed at night on bended knee thanking God for that 96 yard touchdown.

Nestor Aparicio  19:17

Granted Stokely with the block. Go back and watch Oh,

Tim Brown  19:20

no, it was like 30 and 30. And we decided to go like full bliss. Sure. Let’s go for bliss. That’s what you do.

Nestor Aparicio  19:27

Let’s get into this

Tim Brown  19:28

is crazy. But

Brian Billick  19:30

because at that point, the game was over. Yeah. You’re gonna cross the 50

Nestor Aparicio  19:35

it was against our G right? It was later he’s about to join your club.

Tim Brown  19:41

Well, it was rich again. And when we knew it was it was it was dead. We just did water. You know, the kid who came in by behind it was was a good quarterback. But his eyes are as big as civil dollars, man. So the offense had to go from you know, we were trying to be simplistic anyway because of his great defense. But now we went to really simple play He’s and we just didn’t have the manpower to be the police. Those guys

Brian Billick  20:03

always asked me and I think the Oakland game more so than any other the strength that I the reason I knew we were going to win people and remember you were the number one running attack. Yeah. Yeah, even the Oakland Raiders number one in rushing in the NFL that year. We knew we’re not going to be able to run the ball. And it shocked people. You know, I can I can hear Gruden right now. I’m sure gonna wire these guys we’re gonna run the ball you know you’re not as you know, you don’t run the ball on

Nestor Aparicio  20:31

us that Marvin would say they don’t have any idea how fast we are exactly right. Well, you know

Tim Brown  20:36

shocked them. I think those those guys up the middle were so stout. They were able to take those two guys would take three guys Ray was rolling downhill to the to the boys anytime you can do that, man. I mean, it’s just gonna be impossible to do anything about

Nestor Aparicio  20:51

what’s gonna segue because when Charles was sitting here we were just in the conversation we sat down about trying to win with the backup quarterback. That afternoon you couldn’t do it and here they are sit with Nick Foles on the wall. I

Tim Brown  21:01

don’t think Nick is a backup quarterback though. I think he is a starting quarterback who was just waiting for his opportunity to get obviously he’s played very well in the league. So I don’t see this as the same situation we were in in the second half all of a sudden where you know you had no preparation, you know no time to work with this guy. You know, in practice, you know, I mean, Nick Foles is the guy who’s played well for weeks and you know, he’s played had a couple good years in the league. So look if he can play halfway as good as he played a couple weeks ago, you know, I think they’re gonna have a legitimate chance to win this game

Nestor Aparicio  21:33

last thing to argue about wide receivers most to the Hall of Fame to some thoughts about

Tim Brown  21:39

you know, it’s not a matter of which is better I think what they’re gonna do I think they’re gonna put to end in order not to put Randy in on first ballot, you know, because I believe that they don’t want another receiver to go in for his ballot but Jerry because of the records of championships and a longevity now ready to change the game he changed that position, no doubt about it. But if they don’t put to it this year, and they put Randy Oh, you can bet that somebody’s been ducking high because the big boy is going to

Brian Billick  22:07

bias because I had his rookie year but what you said I think resonates with me, to me the Hall of Fame beyond I mean, there’s a lot of criteria Chris Carter changed the game in terms of the slot receiver Randy Moss changed the game in what you’re looking for and a guy that had size speed catching take the top off the defense, the whole nine yards to me that’s that’s, you know, when you have guys that changed the game, who better to know than Tim, but guys that changed the game. There’s guys obviously that have the history, the career the numbers, the way that conducted themselves as I mean, that’s a hell of a criteria to be like John Lynch. Now I realized it’s hard to quantify not biased again, John was with me at Stanford. John was the very first drop in the box guy. Yeah, so he he was the guy that changed the game should always be given that that’s, that’s that’s a qualifier for me. So that needs to be one of the criteria to degree I gotta run. Yep.

Nestor Aparicio  23:07

You guys want to sing Cherie, she was saying I


just want to tell you guys to go to Kay Jewelers for Hey, you gotta get your Valentine’s Day gifts. Right? Because I’m wearing I’m wearing some of the jewelry. I wanted you to see the pendant, the airy, the bracelet. Yeah, you have to see this beautiful pendant this examination. This is part of their ring and they redid my ring. So they helped him mine it and Tim’s. Guys for Valentine’s Day get your lady some beautiful gifts. I’m just saying.

Nestor Aparicio  23:45

We’re getting the cameras together the lights the camera the action. Brought to you by our friends at our bank. We’re on the set here. Minnesota Super Bowl 52 and radio row it’s all brought to you by our friends at Royal farms real fresh, real fast and we’ll continue on here with our multi level programming. We are wn st dotnet am 1570 wn st Towson Baltimore. We never stop talking. Baltimore sports

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