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How is Brandon Hyde doing “managing” the Orioles lineup and bullpen?


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Luke Jones and Nestor assess Brandon Hyde and Orioles’ managerial and management decisions as team rolls to Toronto and Tampa for important AL East matchups.


play, orioles, mullins, baseball, talked, day, hayes, point, outfield, game, weeks, bullpen, brandon, pitchers, hit, player, pitch, hyde, sunday, team


Nestor J. Aparicio, Luke Jones

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home we are W n s t, Towson Baltimore, Baltimore positive or positively into a beautiful week of road baseball, OTA football division baseball actually. And, you know, I look Joe is going to join us now we’re getting his crabcake tore out. We’re going to be Cooper’s north on Tuesday. We’re going to be at state fair on Thursday morning. The Orioles play one o’clock against the Blue Jays. We’re doing a little brunch, which gives me a chance to check in with chicken and waffles, maybe some shrimp and grits over steak fair. Oh, brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. We’ll have some Pac Man scratch offs to give away he gave some away at Bally’s last Friday, when Luke and I got together and talked about walks our friends and liberty pure solutions making our water clean as well as Jiffy Lube, multi care for keeping us out on the road so we can do what we do. I’m wearing my Costa shirt, we’ll be there on the 20th. And the Orioles take take on the Yankees then and you know I was strategic about my June crabcake dates like I’m going to be strategic about my September oyster dates. I you know, I know the Yankees and this problem of them winning every night. You can’t do anything about that until you get there. This is where the team goes on the road and hopefully make some hay I’d say they’ve been a good home team. They’ve been a good road team. Division games gave one away on Sunday. And the general state of the team to me is they’re still hitting the ball well, and the Mullins thing continues to be an issue breaking baths and like, you know, all sorts of things, but for the most part, pitching aside and where they’re gonna be with that. You gotta love what you see with this team. Two out of three days. Yeah,


Luke Jones  01:42

I mean, overall, I mean, we’ve talked about that. I think that’s what was so frustrating about this weekend that you take two out of three, but it felt disappointing because of the John means news because of the Tyler wells news and what that could mean. Not so much right now. But just the depth and the upside and knowing that there’s four months to go in a regular season, and then there’s October after that. But on Sunday, I mean, the issue was the hit 15 hits, I mean, that match their career high, but they left 13 Guys on base and certainly a missed opportunity there. To say the least. But since you mentioned them, I mean, the Cedric Mullins thing isn’t getting any better. And yes, he made a sparkling play, rob the potential home run the defense you still really like but I’m going to end up site at this kind of not inflection point, but just really speaks to where he was at the time and what he’s been since then I go back to mid April, when Mullins had that walk off home run against the twins since then Nestor so we’re talking over 100 plate appearances, which is a pretty sizable

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:50

portion. Six weeks, right? And six healthy weeks to right. Yeah,

Luke Jones  02:54

we’re talking since April 19. Batting 139, with a 177 on base percentage and a 194 slugging percentage. I mean, he’s hitting like a pitcher. I mean, we’re having this is the Jorge Mateo conversation from a year ago with what Cedric Mullins is doing at the plate or not doing at the plate right now. And, you know, we saw it in, you know, the set, what was it the seventh inning when he strikes out and slams the bat down in frustration, breaks the bat, throws his helmet down. It’s tough, because you’re talking about someone who we’ve seen play at a high level, we’ve seen him be a 3030 guy, although I’ll remind that was three years ago at this point in time, you know, that wasn’t as recent as you’d like it to be. And we’ve seen him. You know, we’ve seen his numbers declined since then now, last year, I think there was an overwhelming sentiment and hope that it was stemming from the injuries. Keep in mind, he had multiple groin issues that he dealt with, you know, starting on what was it Memorial Day last year, and then had the setback right after the all star break and landed on the aisle again, and I think most people, including myself, thought that it was much more about that. And that can be unhealthy wood chain change things in 24. But, I mean, this is a real problem. And I think you look at the outfield in its totality. Obviously, we’ve talked a lot about Austin Hays, in fairness, Austin Hays, and I’m not saying that he’s been great since he’s returned, but since he’s returned, and you know, it’s only 3634 at bats, whatever it is, because he’s not playing every day. You know, he’s become their fourth outfielder. He’s gotten to 94 since then, and not hitting for a ton of power or anything like that. But he’s been better since he’s returned from the aisle. To me, he’s played like a fourth outfielder. And I mean that in a complimentary way. As far as since he’s returned Now it doesn’t mean I want to start playing him ever Today again, but that’s looked better. But you kind of look at the rest of the outfield we’ve talked about at Santander, you know, big day Saturday aside, you know, hits the homerun on his bobblehead day all that he hasn’t been the best version of himself, Colton Couser has fallen off. And he hasn’t been as great since his amazing April, although drawing walks, certainly has helped his on base percentage and his overall profile. You know, the guy that I’d like to see play more regularly is Kyle’s towers. But that doesn’t mean I’m, I’m convinced that Kyle’s towers is going to be the answer either. So you know, it really I mean, Marlins is by far their biggest problem right now in the outfield. I think that’s evident. And part of that is you want to try to keep his defense in there. But I mean, the bat has been so bad now for seven weeks, six weeks, seven weeks, that it’s becoming more and more of a problem. And I think you saw it again, and that seven thinning, which by the way, I would have pinched it for him in that spot. You know that that was a spot where you know that there were a couple guys on and you had an opportunity to to increase your lead. I understand the thinking that it’s a one run game, and you’d like to keep his his defense out there, you know, for the final two innings. But I would have pinch hit for him there. strikes out. You see the frustration, you know, look, he’s, he’s not hiding from it. He talked after the game on Sunday. And he flat out said, it’s been tough, you know, I’ve got to be better. I’m trying to work. I’m working every day. I see him out there. When I get to the ballpark at 230. In the afternoon, Esther has taken extra BPS doing things to try to get better and to try to get out of this, but it’s just not happening. And again, it’s not quite as simple as just saying, Oh, well, Ben Schumer, oh, send them down the Norfolk. And I’m not saying that those things aren’t going to eventually happen. But as I said, you kind of just need more consistency from your outfield in general. Because, you know,

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:57


we’ve talked about it with Hayes, like I said, Couser in the month of May go look at the numbers that what has it been consistent? It’s been hot and cold, right? It really has been Yeah. And when you guys like mountcastle, and other places you already know are hot and cold. Unless and one thing about rutschman and Andrew I mean, every time they come up, you feel like they’re taking lease hit a double down the line, and they’re at least gonna have a disciplined strategic approach at the plate. And you see how exceptional they are, especially when we’ve sat here and dealt with a lot of lousy for a long time. And some pretty good. And, you know, when you mentioned Mullen sort of losing it, whatever it is the Chris Davis thing, right. I mean, you know, on the heels of seeing how precipitous a fall can be thready ballplayer, I mean, I guess there’s cases everywhere, I think of Chris Davis, more than anyone else around here, because not just because of the money or whatever. And the the diagnosis involved in all of that, and what was going to be legal and what was not going to be legal in regard to attention. And I think about players on that arc of, well, when they’re 2526, they’ll come into being really good. When they’re 30. If they have that skill set, they’ll probably still have it at 32, it starts to move in the other direction. And in the modern era, that’s when guys start making more money, which makes it even harder. If you’re less. I asked Adam Jones, you have to go play in Japan, they they just they don’t have any place for you anymore, if you’re just pretty good are really good. But you’re 32 or 33, or 34. So I don’t know where that arc is for all these guys, and used to be whole thing. And this is where I’ll point out once again that I am Hispanic and Venezuelan, that my people, my people would come over and fake birth certificates happen all the time. And you never knew how old anybody was. I don’t know that that’s going on so much in York, Pennsylvania these days. But in a general sense, there’s an aging process for all of this, where three years is a long, long time. And it’s kind of sad for him and for hazing. Like you’re already with Asian. Bad too. He’s a fourth outfielder and I’m like an all star last year. You can’t find space. You can’t get the confidence level that he’s going to hit you 90 For the rest of the way. I don’t know. But we we get exploration labels like milk cartons on some of these guys. And then some guys just fall off so crazy. And I bring up Chris Davis, that it’s kind of jaw dropping, and you really can’t put your finger on it. Yeah.

Luke Jones  09:37

And look when we we talked about this at fade. Lee’s but offense is down around baseball. And I’m glad you kind of mentioned this, because this is you know, I don’t want to segue entirely off of the outfield. But look at the race for example. I mean, you have a team that all of their pitching injuries last year, they endured that why because go look at their offense and The number of guys that they had enjoy career seasons at the plate, and then look what it’s looked like this year where they’re still feeling the effects. And obviously they traded glass now in the offseason and you know, the rays did the things that rate the rays do which is typically trading off a player to and then lead relying more on your system and all that but look at someone like Randy Irena. I mean, think about where he was a few years ago and the player that he’s been the last few years and I’m not saying best player in the game, or a top five player or a top 10 player, but clearly a player who has had some cachet and has looked the part of an all star kind of player. Go look at his numbers right now. I mean, at the end of the day on Sunday, batting 162 He’s got a 263 on base percentage and most shocking, it’s slugging 310. I mean, he’s been Cedric Mullins for them. I mean, Randy arozarena A guy that I think if you ask most people who’s the better player Randy arozarena or Cedric Mullins before the season, I think most people would have said, uh, Rosa Raina. So this is happening around baseball. We’ve talked about it a lot with the offense. I mean, I brought up the example to you not long ago, looking at the contrast between Gunnar Henderson rookie of the year going into his second full season and now becoming an MVP candidate. And in the National League to contrast Corbin Carroll, who looked like he was going to be one of the stars of the National League was Rookie of the Year saw him in the postseason. The Diamondbacks had their Cinderella run to the World Series. He’s been awful this year. So that everything you said as far as kind of the natural progression, and then the fall for a ballplayer whenever they reach their prime, and then they’re no longer that player and they start to decline, you know, we can’t we, we tend to think about it through looking through the lens of a player who plays a decade or 15 years. But we also know a lot of players, it’s much, much shorter, you know, you can find some players who are decent in their mid 20s and hang around as it might be as a backup player, but then they’re, they’re done by age 28. They’re out of baseball, or they’re playing in the minor leagues, or they’re playing in Japan or whatever it is, to your point. So yeah, there there. There is a lot of that going on. And I don’t say that to be flippant or dismissive about what’s happening with the Orioles outfield right now. And specifically with Mullins and Hayes the overall numbers still, obviously are what they are, which is really bad. By the way. It’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:26

it’s spiritually baseball, there’s no job for life. We know that right? Oh, no, right. And it came on the show two weeks ago, you know, his time came and went to right in the outfield, and, you know, for any of these positions, and for then, when you factor in how much money they make, and who’s coming up the pipeline, I’ll just say this, and I was gonna Google. Hey, you know, um, off the top of your head, Mullins. What were his lines last year, those two guys, whatever their final stats were last year to 56 to 68. You know, 20 home runs at 12. home runs, whatever it was, there was no reason when you and I were driving around Sarasota and I was doing some great hot yoga. While it was raining down there, and they were figuring out Jackson holiday. There was no thought that haze and Mullins would be leapfrogged by Couser, who was a question mark kirsta doesn’t have a glove sours who couldn’t figure it out last year, if these guys just hit for par, right? Like just for eight for eight weeks, the first eight weeks if they were healthy, and just tick to 60 to 70 to 80, got on pace a little bit played their defense played their game wouldn’t need to be all stars hit 320. It had 15 Home run, they would they wouldn’t need to do that. But they would have been blocking a lot of these other guys anyway. But I think that’s what I expected of them. I didn’t expect them to absolutely regress. I didn’t expect the worst version of a healthy Mullins. Uh, you know, I don’t think Mike Elias did either. But from an organizational standpoint, they had guys ready to go. And they that’s why they’re, I would say in first place. I keep wanting to say that because it feels that way, because they went eight times out of 10. They should be at first place. Damn Yankees. We’ll get to them in a couple of weeks at a conference. But I would just say from from where I sit. This is a little bit shocking. But they can figure it out. I thought their problem five, six weeks ago was going to be six major league outfielders. And now we’re much like the pitching staff struggling to figure out, okay, who are the four we’re really going to use here and why and what and sometimes there’s money and trading deadline and who has value. None of them have much value on a tray like right, sometimes they’re hazer moments to trade them in a deal that gets you a relief that that That’s not That’s Rex Barney talk right now, right?

Luke Jones  14:54

Basically, I mean, and I’ll say this, I’ll disagree with you a little bit in turn. terms of because you made mention as far as Sarasota. And let me let me be clear when I say that, that doesn’t mean that I thought Cedric Mullins was going to be this bad or that I thought Austin Hayes was going to be this bad. But there were the warning signs in terms of the last couple years haze in the second half of the season really dropping off. And obviously with Mullins for me, it was just a question of his health. And was he going to be able to stay healthy? Now? Do I think that that was going to equate the Austin Hays hitting 190? With like a 480? Oh, PS at this point in the season, and Cedric Mullins hitting 181? No, absolutely not. I thought


Nestor J. Aparicio  15:37

33 last year, and AC 275? Just you know, I don’t I don’t make numbers up. But because they are important numbers. But I thought Mullins would do better than that. And be healthier than that. Right? Of course.

Luke Jones  15:50

And I and I did to let me be let me be very clear about it. But there were warning signs in terms of like I said, Hayes, go look at his splits first half second half the last two years. I mean, he was an all star last year, go look at second half numbers. So that for me, though, was more of my argument for those guys, not having not having a vision that they’re going to play 155 games that to me was more of justification of rolling Colton Couser into the picture. And now you have four outfielders who are playing 120 to 130 games and you know, you can kind of rotate and you use the DH spot a little bit for Santander. And so that was my, that was more of my vision. That was not me saying that I thought Cedric Mullins was gonna be this bad, or I thought Austin Hays is gonna be this bad. So but part of this is also like, hey, Colton cows are gonna make adjustments. You know, we’ve seen them, you know, really hit the fastball and do what he did in April. And that was amazing. And he draws walks to his credit. So that’s, that’s allowed him to keep his production at a certain level. But you know, now he’s seen a lot of breaking stuff. And all he’s got to adjust. I mean, that’s just that’s the name of the game. And I think he will let me be clear about that. But when you have that, and we mentioned Santander, I mean, we haven’t talked nearly as much about him. He’s hitting to 17. Now he has a 730 ish. Oh, PS. I mean, that’s not great for him. That’s certainly not what he envisioned in a contract year, whether it’s going to be signing something with the Orioles or, or departing and going elsewhere and trying to make a little bit of money as a free agent. For the first time with these numbers. You

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:28

don’t want to back next year. Well, right. I

Luke Jones  17:30


mean, that’s, that’s part of it. He’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:32

hitting this in August. That’s not good. But all of these problems, again, you I always think you and I drive it around Sarasota, dreaming the big dream five days before opening day, what are they going to be who’s coming north on the roster, because that’s so important, because it changes every minute of every day, as these arms fall off, we did a whole hour on arms falling off today. All of this crap that’s gone wrong for them. I would have told you that Mullins would be not Mendoza but batting like a pitcher. If I would have told you Hayes would have been banged up and not very productive from a slugging from what you really expect that at him or need out of all star productivity out of him. And you know, guys arms are falling off and Kramer’s hurt and Batista is unavailable and Kimbrel has been so So Tommy told you all of that you wouldn’t say, I bet they’re playing seven under ball. You know what I mean? Like, there’s a lot that’s gone right here. And that’s mask a lot of the problems that they’ve had because Mullins and Hayes and Santander are a problem, and they were the starting outfield when we were driving around Sarasota. Well,

Luke Jones  18:41

and but again, this also goes back to what I’ve been saying offensive around is down around baseball. I mean, even and I’ve talked about this, yes, their offense wasn’t as good in May as it was in April. But go look at the numbers. They’re still among the very top, you know, Cleveland and the Yankees have been the other teams where you’re looking at the ACL and run scored per game the Orioles are right up there. But in saying that the Yankees who have been slightly better than the Orioles right, I mean, they’ve been leading their first place three games up at the end of this weekend and and all that good look at the bottom of their lineup, they’ve got three or four guys at the bottom of their order that are not hitting, right. I mean, every team around the league seemingly has some of that. So I’m with you, just in the general statement that you made. But again, it speaks to how great Gunnar Henderson has been. How great Adley rutschman has been how great Jordan Westberg has been. I mean, Westberg is the guy that you really point to and say, okay, he didn’t just take a step forward. He takes he took a couple steps forward, and he’s become not an above average player, but it’s kind of it’s been an all star caliber third baseman, I mean, is he going to make it probably not just knowing how that kind of stuff works in terms of picking reserves and everything and assuming he’s not going to be voted in by the fans, but he’s been that kind of player. So When you have those three guys at Mt Castle’s had a really good year overall, even though you streaky, we know that about him. You know, we Jorge Mateo, who hopefully, you know, he gets hit in the back of the head with the bat just a freak thing that happened, you know, feel bad for Mullins feel bad for him. You know, he was in the concussion protocol. We’ll see if he goes on the IL for a span here. But Matteo, we’ve talked about him. I’ve talked about him a lot. And I was the first guy saying last August. Why is he still on the team? He’s been really good for them in the sense of back in March. If you looked at if someone told you back in March, what the primary second baseman numbers would be for the Orioles. You will look at those numbers blind and said, Hey, Jackson holidays off to a good start in his major league career, Matteo has been a saving grace there that that position didn’t become an albatross for them. Because he’s been really solid, not not spectacular, but really, really solid. And he’s given them plus production at second base when, you know, holiday gets sent down. You don’t know what’s going to happen there. I mean, Ramona Reus hasn’t hit the ball this year. We know he’s really struggled offensively as well. So that had the potential to be a problem. But he stepped up. So you know, Ryan O’Hearn who didn’t play Sunday, but we know what he’s done overall. So they’ve had their guys that are having really good seasons, but the guys who aren’t points, it’s really been a struggle. But I would, I would challenge and say that, you’re seeing a lot of that around baseball, you’re seeing a lot of good established players who you would not at all think oh, well, you know, this guy’s 35 He’s washed up, you know, yeah, you have some of that around baseball, but you also have some 20 Somethings and early 30 Somethings who you wouldn’t necessarily think are struggling, but that’s just kind of been the run scoring environment we’re seeing in across baseball. So that’s not to make

Nestor J. Aparicio  21:58

this shift, right. Like, you know, I mean, the shift was brought on the kind of, you know, open the game up for hitters and stuff. And you know, that that hasn’t happened, and in some cases,


Luke Jones  22:10

I mean, what we’re seeing is, for the most part last I saw it, so don’t quote me on this as being gospel. But last I’ve seen walks and strikeouts have kind of leveled off at least like remember we had that trend where strikeouts just kept going up kept going and kept going up. That seemed that appears to have normalized I guess for lack of a better term. But I talked about this when we were discussing the walks you know, last week, the power numbers across baseball have gone down. That’s why what the Orioles have been able to do with their slugging. And when you have gunner slugging five 590, when you have Adley rutschman has been slugging around 475 mountcastle, slugging around 500, Westberg, slugging 500 Plus O’Hearn slugged, I think 450, I think it is, you’re not seeing teams that have that many guys that are slugging at that level. So, even if the batting average or the on base percentage for certain teams doesn’t look that bad, you’re not seeing as much power production, power potential. And we talked about it the idea of stringing together multiple singles and trying to play small ball and doing things like that. It’s tricky. I mean, it kind of came to fruition on Sunday for the Orioles they had 15 hits, but I think they want to say they only had two extra base hits in that game. You know, Henderson had the leadoff home run. Austin Hayes had the double later in the game, and that was it. The rest for singles. I’m not absolving them, let’s be very clear about that. They, they had their opportunities in that game, and they squandered it. But you see a lot of that around baseball. That’s why teams philosophically have said, we want the beginning. We’re gonna swing for the fences, we’re swinging for power, and we’re gonna do that because it’s, you know, with the velocity and the spin and all that different stuff philosophically, that’s what they’re trying to do. That’s their approach. So I’m, again, I’m not saying that’s right. I’m not saying that. That’s a better brand of baseball than the past or anything like that. I’m just trying to illustrate what it is right now. And there’s a lot of that around baseball. So yeah, the Orioles outfield. It’s been surprising. And even if you were a believer in Colton Couser becoming starting player this year, even if you were a believer in Kyle stauer is finally getting another shot at it or Heston curse dad coming up and getting a shot at it even if you thought some of those things were likely and possible to happen this year. No, no one thought Cedric Mullins would be you know, a sub 550 Oh, PS hitter this year, which is just awful. You know, it’s a nightmare for him and, you know, Santander who hasn’t been as bad as the other two, but this is not the contract year he was envisioning so far. You know, the power numbers. You know, homerun numbers are okay, but you know, hitting 215 and a sub 300 on base percentage. I mean, that’s that’s not what he had in mind. So it’s a long season. Let’s be clear about that. And Jorge Mateo, I’ll continue to prop him up as the example of why you don’t give up on these guys. Because Matteo, myself included everyone, for three months. Last summer, was clamoring for him to be DFL aide. And you know, the thought was, oh, you know, maybe we’ll get claimed or you’re out right on the Norfolk, but you can’t keep running this guy out there. But, you know, he’s been better this year, there’s still the optimism of getting these guys straightened out. They do have track records, like Elias was asked about this point blank. How concerned are you about your outfielders on Friday? And he said, Yeah, yeah, it’s been a struggle for those guys. But we’re probably in all honesty, less concern than the fans are right now. Or the media is right now. Because we have guys with the track record. Now he’s going, obviously, he’s going to say that publicly as well, he’s not gonna throw them under the bus, you’re confident and guys until you ship them off. And you’re not confident that the more

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:01

there’s a pathway of mines is healthy to go down in Norfolk and hit the cover off the ball and come back up here in August. Because a hamstring pull, like I mean, I’ve just seen this, and that that’s what I always laugh when I mentioned Sarasota, the depth of all of this isn’t 2426 28 it’s 40 to 45. If you’re going to win a World Series, that you’re going to be counting on every Ramon you’re so you’re going to be counting on if you’re going to be counting with three guys that aren’t even on this team. Hey, can we deal for Clevenger I you know, just trying to get guys in a bullpen I’m just I’m thinking outlet, Tampa loves given their pitchers away. Let’s do a three way trade and sneak up on him like with the reds or something where we really get the pitcher and don’t tell them that they’re dealing in the division. I don’t know. Is that legal?

Luke Jones  26:47

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, but your points well taken. I mean, look, it’s a long season. And for as much as there was hand wringing about Craig Kimbrel. Look at what Kimbrel has done his last seven or eight appearances. And look, he’s going to have another stretch where it looks ugly, because that’s kind of just been who he’s been for the last six years. You know, I’ve been saying that over and over. That doesn’t mean CML

Nestor J. Aparicio  27:10


Castle is gonna hit a buck 50 for a week, pick week because we see salutely Is that we see that I mean, we do and

Luke Jones  27:17

as long as you have the sufficient guys to pick up the slack. That’s why I said, Yeah, I still do want to see them add a couple bullpen arms because they need it. And Sunday was an example that their bullpen was short a couple guys. Dillon Tate didn’t get the job done. Right. And, you know, I mean, he’s someone that I’m not writing him off as a guy that is a solid middle reliever, but Is he someone you trust in the eighth inning? I would say no. So, but your point as far as a 40 man roster and needing contributions, we’ve Jacob Webb has been a great example of this, you know, Jacob Webb, when Kimbrel was at his worst, Jacob Webb pitch some really big games for them and had some really big outings for them is Jacob Webb going to be that for the next four months? History would suggest probably not, but you need those contributions. And as much as we use the cliche of the Orioles magic lyrics, and every night, it’s a different star. You do need some of that you need that over the course of a full season. You’re going to have guys on your roster at some point, who probably won’t even be with the organization anymore. Come September and I say that for every team that has any visions of doing anything meaningful. You have some of that you know you you can go back last year and find some guys that were no longer you know, either in the majors or even in the organization that helped them in April and May and June at some point in time. You see that so you know in Orioles history you think of John stuff arrow Dave Chris Chris shown and different guys like that, who may have only had one moment Taylor Teegarden in the buck era hit a walk off home run, barely did anything else at all in his Orioles. Time with the Orioles lands room. So yeah, so you have some of that. And you know that that’s I think that’s why the beauty of baseball. And you know, I mean, you can have it another sports. I mean, look at what tylan Wallace did with the punt return against the Rams last year, your tylan Wallace, who now has never lived up to being a fourth round receiver as an actual wide receiver contributor yet that he mentioned what? Yeah, exactly. So you have that but to bring it back to what we were talking about with the outfielders and what’s going to happen there? Nestor, I don’t think anyone right now can predict what their outfield is going to look like Come August and September. I think I feel most confident about Couser being in that picture. I still feel confident Santander is going to be in that picture. But Mullins and Hayes right now. I have no idea especially when you have Kyle sours and Heston curse dad. Factoring in there, too. potentially some way. So, yeah, we’re gonna see how it plays out. I mean, the good thing is they do have some of these other options. And I’ll continue to say it. I’d like to I’d really like to see Kyle sours play regularly, at least for the next couple of weeks and see what you have. Is it more fourth outfielder fifth outfielder type? Or is it more? Hey, this guy looks like he play every day. You know, because Mullins and Hayes have not proven this year that they should be playing every day. I mean, it’s just that simple right now. So I’m not burying any of these guys at the on the bench and in the corner of the dugout and that they’re gonna sit indefinitely. But Mullins, frankly needs to be sit sitting more. You know, we’ll see about Hayes. I mean, he had a nice day on Sunday and swung the bat pretty well had a couple hits. That was good to see. But, you know, I don’t know what this is going to look like. But when you have Gunnar Anderson, you have Adley rutschman. You have Jordan Westberg, mountcastle O’Hearn, you know, they’ve had enough guys Matteo until this concussion issue. They’ve had enough guys that have been able to pick up the slack and again in 2024, with the run scoring environment we are seeing across baseball, that still equates to the Orioles overall having a A plus offense. But yeah, you got to find a way to get at least a couple more of these guys go in because, you know, they had some significant stretches here where they’re getting very, very little from the outfield, and they’re making it work. Hey 105 Wind pace. I’ll continue to say that let’s be clear, despite the our overall tone in this conversation, things are still going really well overall. But you want to try to come up with some answers here some some solutions here because because of what you’re dealing with on the pitching side and bullpen and are you gonna have enough starters? So we’re gonna see how it plays out. But, yeah, to think that Cedric Mullins would be hitting one ad in June to think Austin Hayes be hitting 190 in June. Yeah, it’s a it’s a testament to everything else that’s gone well, to cover up some of the issues that they’ve had in the outfield that have been pretty evident.

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:08

Alright, before we get to football last thing on on baseball? Because you always say to me, I’m glad you brought that up. Well, I’m glad you brought up this guy should be sitting this guy should be playing. Where are you on Brandon Hyde, you know, in regard to the amount of talent that they’ve had? Awful a couple of years ago, guys that he’s got heart into that he thinks are piled divers, which is basically every guy you just trashed and said, they’re not good enough to play right now. Or they’re getting older, we have younger players coming in, that his heart was in the tray, man Seanie, right, like all of that on a day by day basis. And again, I don’t have a press credential and will that will be addressed loudly at the appropriate time at the time of my choosing. So I can’t ask anybody and I you know, I read Moneyball now watch Moneyball. How much of this is Elias, you know, pushing buttons on? Who pitches in the seventh and eighth and who pinch? It’s and whether they let your Reus go out there and struggle with the bases loaded or to your point I would have pinch it from Mullins, right? Like, I don’t know in the modern era. I’m not a real media member anymore. So I’m not I can’t even ask I really don’t know where that comes from. And this is me asking you the question. fanboy Nester asking Luke, reporter guy, and your opinion, you don’t criticize hide much. I mean, we ever he gets crushed on Twitter, like every manager, whatever we don’t, we, I would let the whistler whistling Guy No, we don’t crush managers, or we don’t do that issue around here. We, we speak credibly about this. But just on that we don’t talk about hide much. And we will talk about movements and what reliever and I don’t sit here and massive criticism and Lord knows, you know, Brad Hollander will never create it. You know what I mean? Like, you’re never gonna get that during the broadcast. Maybe Palmer could be a little flippant about it. Maybe McDonald, if you listen, and I’ve known Ben 30 years that you could hear his well, you know, yeah, I’ve got other options out there. You know, I can hear him saying that. But we don’t beat up on the manager here. And the team’s really good. And I don’t really want to. I’m just wondering what you think of Brandon Hyde? When because sometimes I see really bad at bats. And if they can, you got to have a better option there. And that does speak to a lot of arms, a few bats, limited resources. But this is a pretty movable team. And when Matteo gets hit in the head late in the game, and you start losing guys, and you’re like, Well, you Reus who’s gonna play the infield? Who’s gonna play the outfield? I don’t know. You don’t have a lot of options in modern baseball. It felt like, you know, Earl Weaver had a couple of Terry Crowley’s and Merv Redmond’s and GIMP wires hanging around Benny a yalla is that baseball is isn’t built that way anymore.

Luke Jones  34:57

No, it’s not. I mean, at this point in time, you have three Team man pitching staffs. It’s very rare when teams go with 12 pitchers at this point in time and I mean, I can’t even remember. And you know, you always make fun of me for being younger. I mean, you know, at the 90s when you started to have


Nestor J. Aparicio  35:11

nearly as much as you make fun of it older. No, but I just mean like,

Luke Jones  35:17

it used to be sick considered crazy. When they started going to six man bullpens, you know, and now you’ve got eight in there on a regular basis. So change the rules

Nestor J. Aparicio  35:26

because it was getting so specialized. Right? This is like telling defensive coordinators, Rex, you figured this defense out too. Well, we’re not letting you SOB anymore on second down, there’s no more so. So. So there’s

Luke Jones  35:37


some of that. And look, when you’re talking about lineup construction, when you’re talking about handling a pitchers, you know, in terms of Well, why is this guy you know, why? Why does so few other pitchers, you know, go over 100 pitches and, you know, don’t don’t pitch deeper into games and how they’re managing the bullpen. A lot of that is collaborative. You know, it very much is collaborative, and they’re very tight lipped about their process for competitive reasons. It’s become way more like the NFL and that way. So, look, are there times where Brandon Hyde pulls a starter? And I think, you know, I would have tried to squeeze a couple more outs there. You know, as bottom of the order. Your bullpen has been worked a lot of late. Are there times where I think that’s Sure. Are there times where? You know, I think he’s a little too matchup oriented in terms of righty righty, Lefty lefty. Yeah, because sometimes, you know, I mentioned in a previous segment might have been this discussion or might might have been a previous one. So I’m not dealing tape on Sunday, and it felt like he really gave Tate a longer than normal leash in that situation, especially having Danny coulomb throwing and ready to go coulomb and pitch the previous day, Tate had canole was down that day. Webb was down that day. So Sunday in isolation, for me, felt like it was not one of Brandon Hyde’s better days. But I just I think so much of it is collaborative. Now there is so much data that goes into it. There is I mean, you know, you have programs that will spit out lineups now in terms of trying to optimize it from a run scoring standpoint, in terms of the picture you’re facing and order, you know, sequencing all that stuff that goes into it that domicile, automatic only better. Right, and and I don’t say this to mean that Brendon high doesn’t have any accountability in those spots. But I don’t know when when I see fan angst or anger directed towards him for some of those decisions. I don’t know how much of that, you know, what percentage of that is brand and hide? What percentage of that is their analytics department? Alias? SigmaTel. You know, again, I mean, there, there are a lot of cooks. And this has worked really well mind you, right? I mean, you’re talking about a team that’s on pace to win 100 games under 100 plus games for the second straight year, which you kind of go back to the glory days of the late 60s and 70s talking about that for the Orioles. So, you know, overall, I like Brandon Hyde. Do I think he’s perfect? Do I think he’s a perfect tactician? No, uh, but every manager over the course of 162, you’re gonna have bullpen decisions. And pinch hitting decisions that you like or don’t like, I think with the outfield to bring it back to the outfield discussion, because I think that’s so relevant right now. I think he’s in a really difficult spot from a standpoint of wanting to try to balance production and winning on that given night, with also not being in a position where you just are burying Cedric Mullins, burying Austin Hayes and just said, Okay, you guys are bad right now, well, you’re gonna stay bad, because I’m not gonna play you anymore. You know, I think he’s trying to find that sweet spot in terms of winning that night’s game. And also trying to get some of your veteran players going, while at the same time. Hey, Kyle sours has done a nice job with some of his opportunities here, and you want to try to get him more involved. As I said, I’d like to see stars play more point blank, I’d like to see him play more at this point in time. So I’ll criticize Brandon Hyde for that. But at the same time, I understand you have these guys who have a track record to your point. They’re not 34 years old. So you know, hypothetically, they shouldn’t be finished or washed up or anything like that. So you’re trying to balance all that. I think it’s, it’s very easy to be sitting behind a microphone like you or me, or someone that’s sitting in the upper deck, or somebody who’s watching it on TV to just say, Oh, I do that. I wouldn’t do that. That was a bad decision. I would have played that guy. I’m gonna pitch that guy in that spot. I think all of those which hate, I’m not discouraging that. That’s what makes baseball fun baseball. The slower pace of it lends itself to those debates and those decisions and those examples of second guessing We’re first guessing, quite frankly. But I think when you have the collection of players the collection of talent that they have, that I still, you know, this is a very talented club, even with the guys that are struggling, they’re former All Stars. To your point in talking about Hayes and Mullins, you’re trying to figure out and balance, winning that night’s game, but also understanding that there’s a big picture at work here. And just because someone’s really bad right now, doesn’t mean that they’re going to continue to be if you can try to figure out how to get them going. So I think he’s trying to manage that a lot right now. Is he doing it perfectly? No. Like I said, I’d like to see scours play more. And, you know, I mean, so but but there are only nine spots in the lineup on a daily basis. And pitchers are dropping left and right around baseball and the Orioles have not been immune to that with some of the injuries they’ve had already. You’re trying to keep guys healthy. So yeah, you want to win that night’s game really bad, especially with the way the Yankees are playing. At the same time. It would be malpractice to neglect the view of the big picture and understand that there is a long term outlook that’s at work here. So yeah, that’s a long winded answer of saying overall Yeah, I’m I’m a brand and hype guy. Do I think he’s perfect? No. But I think the state of the bullpen we’ve talked about it, they need a couple. Couple more up. They need a couple upgrades at some point between now and the deadline. I’ll continue to say there’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  41:31

nothing with the manager it has to do with the Bill Parcells would say what the ingredients are, you know, around the menu and the seventh thing Who do I have available when Bradish isn’t going to make it out of the fourth? Yeah, yeah.

Luke Jones  41:44

I mean, that’s the thing. And they won Saturday’s game. But I think Bradish not making it out of the early innings on Saturday. I think that was a big reason why they lost Sunday’s game because he had to manage his bullpen differently. And again, he could have done some things differently. I didn’t think Sunday was a great day for Brandon, I’ll flat out say that. But overall, I think the results speak for themselves. And I think you see the way his team plays. For him. It is rare. When this team has a day where you say Man, they really appeared to go through the motions, or they didn’t put forth good effort. And that was something we even said about him their teams four or five years ago, as much as they were bad. It was it was rare when you said Man, the effort looked like it’s stunk today. Those guys played hard. Back in 2019. In my opinion, they just weren’t good. Like they never just bad players. They played but they played hard the effort level. These tried all ways. And that was just, you know, Hanser. Alberto, you know, I’ll give me another reference there. So, to me, that was a good reflection on Brandon Hyde at that point in time, five years later, you know, I am way More Happy Than Not with Brandon Hyde on an on a nightly basis, I think. And look, some people disagree with that. And that’s fine. You know, we can have that discourse. But I think looking at the state of the bullpen, looking at their rotation. Now, knowing that John means is not coming back through that door, Tyler Well does not come back through that door for the rotation or the bullpen. And knowing now you’re you’ve got Albert Suarez on the back end of the rotation, which Hey, he’s done a pretty nice job for them, when they’re gonna go to Norfolk to write, well, yeah, no doubt, we’re gonna see Kate Povich. At some point, we’re gonna see Chase McDermott at some point, most likely, I think, with having lost means now, there’s probably more a greater likelihood that they’re going to add a starting pitcher. Now, I don’t think that’s necessarily going to be a number one, number two, number three starter, it might be a guy to fill out the back end of your rotation for the last two months of the season. Dare I say someone like Kyle Gibson, quite frankly, I’m not saying him individually, although he could end up being available given where the Cardinals are. But, you know, they might need that they might need to go out and get that now, considering their starting pitching has taken some some depth hits here with the events of the last few days. So, you know, Brandon is trying to manage all that. And it’s way easier to sit back and watch that from from a distance and say, Hey, that wasn’t the move to make there. I would have made that move. And sometimes that’s fair. And sometimes that’s right. You know, Brandon does some bad 1000. But I think overall, given the state of the roster where they are, you know, I’m still going to give him a thumbs up and what he does more often than not, and, you know, you can’t pitch the same bullpen guys every single night. And as much as you’re trying to maximize your lineup, you’re also dealing with human beings and you’re trying to manage some guys who are bad right now, but haven’t been bad in the past and have been good in the past and you’re trying to, you know, it’s uh, it would never

Nestor J. Aparicio  44:50

be a time you’d want McCann or ureas to bat like,


Luke Jones  44:55

right. Right. And, and specifically, to your point at talking about your Reus on Sunday. I mean, Mateo was out of the game, you know? And look, I mean, Korea’s gotta hit got hit by a pitch, I mean, got hit on the foot. And for a secondary, you’re wondering oh no does he have to leave the game and who’s going to play in the infield in the ninth inning. So, you know, you’re dealing with some of that. I mean, it’s, it’s part of the game, but it’s a whole pie of of different variables that you’re trying to deal with on a daily and a weekly basis. And I don’t say that to make an excuse. Like I said, Sunday was not one of Brandon heights finer days in terms of a couple of decisions there that I would have probably handled differently, but I think he gets more right than not, and I think the results speak for themselves. Not that a manager is the end all be all but and they have a lot of talent. But if he was truly as incompetent as I see some of his harsher critics say, then I don’t think the Orioles would be quite as successful as they are. And I just you know, that’s just my opinion. I think Brandon has a really good manager. Is he the best in baseball? I don’t I have no idea.

Nestor J. Aparicio  46:00

I think he’s around here anymore because I could not sit here and take firebrand and hide phone calls. I mean, I mean we can get him up all day after a pinch hitter does it you know has a has a crappy at bat when to your point the the options are limited and the results kind of speak for themselves last year and this year, right. So yeah, that’s really good team. They’re good. They’re gonna have problems but we don’t pick on the manager here much because it feels not autopilot. But it feels like they put a lot more read they put it into the AI machine, you know?

Luke Jones  46:32

Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, I just agree with some of his decisions, you know, that’s okay. Look, people disagreed with Earl Weaver people disagreed with Casey Stengel

Nestor J. Aparicio  46:43


name I want to make clear here before we break that I disagree with Buck show Walters decision to leave Zach Britton on the Toronto Yeah, I’m just letting me know. And I still disagree with Seto Gaskins decision to let Mike Messina rot in the bullpen in it, man. But other than that, there’s the only time Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mitch Williams wasn’t the right guy for Joe Carter. 93. And maybe that wasn’t the right match up there. I

Luke Jones  47:10

you know what, you mentioned this, I have to bring this up. Since we’re on this topic. So it was what last weekend when the Orioles had the blowout victory on last Sunday. They were were they even playing? I’ve lost lost. But so anyway, that was oh, no, what so it wasn’t it was prior to that then I guess it was anyway. The Orioles were winning. They were winning big. They brought in the new guy. It was, you know era that the guy from Milwaukee. He’s not the era. Exactly. Yeah, the geography era. And that was when he walked three guys gave up the three Ron triple walked another guy or hit a guy, whatever it was. And that was the spot that I had someone on Twitter say to me, man, Brandon Hyde goes through so many pet pictures even in a blowout. And I go Yeah, because that was he told that guy to do that, you know. So, you know, when you’re a pitch, when you’re a manager, sometimes you can’t win. And ultimately, you can’t go out there and throw the ball for the pitcher, you can’t go out there and swing the bat for the hitter. And there are going to be times where you’re gonna get second guessed unfairly. And then there gonna be other times where hey, I would a pinch it for Cedric Mullins in the seventh inning on Sunday, he pinch it for him in the ninth, but I would have done it in the seventh because, you know, he’s really struggled. And that was a spot where they had a chance to get a couple runs. And they did have some options at that point in time. Whether you’re talking about in that spot, oh, oh hurt, or sad hours or towels or so. But you’re gonna find some of those. And sometimes, by the way, sometimes just second guessed, the manager. And a lot of us won’t admit it. But the manager ended up being right, and what you thought they should have done, ends up not being right, because it just worked out a certain way. So that was a long winded way of saying, Brandon, I was manager of the year last year for a reason. And he deserved that. And he is not the only reason for their success by any stretch of the imagination. And he’d be the first to tell you that but I think some of the criticism that’s out there is over the top some of its fair in the same way that any manager but I think Brandon height is way more of a net positive than any kind of a negative for this ballclub and the results speak for themselves. When you’re talking about a team that’s been playing 650 ish kind of baseball this year. And last year.

Nestor J. Aparicio  49:33

Here’s Baltimore Luke case Luke Jones. You can find him out on anywhere social media, serving from Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and LinkedIn and all these good places, threads and exes and all that stuff. We’re gonna be doing the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by our friends at the Maryland lottery. I have some PAC man’s left we’re gonna get some of those lucky sevens in here. At some point for next week. We’re going to be Cooper’s north in Timonium originally or excuse me, Mays chapel I should say They always get the neighborhood name wrong. I don’t know. It’s to the west of 83 off demonium Road. We’ll be there on Tuesday afternoon. Thursday morning we’re going to be at State Fair in Catonsville haven’t chicken waffles and shrimp regrets I think I’m gonna get them both. And the Orioles play the Blue Jays at one o’clock so that’ll be on and Orange Crush baby. Let’s go Thursday fired up or was out of town there in Tampa this weekend. My friend Pete Williams joined me from Tampa last week if you’ve heard that. Another great baseball conversation Alan McCallum was on last week. We’re talking to lots of people about lots of things around here. I’ll be a Costas on the 20th before the Yankees game, doing the Maryland crabcake talk. I guess for that we’re Coco’s next Wednesday afternoon with Marcela I’m looking forward to that we’ll be at Pappas on the 25th that is the papists in Parkville. A lot of folks will say that’s your original Pappas and yeah, it’s a genius bring me over there again, and I’m looking forward to having the chicken franchise as well as a crab cake. And I’m not crab cake out, but I did go to Costas on Sunday night. And I had the crab Imperial the rock, fish, crab and periods of rock fish Imperial. Delicious. My wife had a bowl of crab soup. My wife broke her ankle in a tragic fall on Saturday morning. She’s in a cache, she’s miserable, she’s in a lot of pain. So I took her over to concerts. I got my Costa shirt on, and I told her a lot of people in Dundalk will tell you this crab seems like penicillin. So you got to take this this is the first thing to get in better. So I took her over to college and what were some crackers as well. So that tried to fix and feta cheese and a Greek salad that will fix a lot of things, then fix the Orioles late in the game on Sunday. But Luke and I will be working on that Luke’s gonna be chasing the Ravens around all week in Owings Mills. And then next week it is mandatory minicamp so we’ll have some Lamar thoughts and we’ll have some John Harbaugh thoughts and more than that Luke and I took a deep dive on walks. And, you know, I’m Venezuelan, we don’t walk off the island. But we talked about the lack of walks with the Orioles and Luke made an impassioned case that it’s not so bad so you can find all that stuff out at Baltimore We got the audio vault up we got our YouTube channel rockin subscribe here like here. You know Luke, when you talk out loud and you do thumbs up your resume does like a little fun little zoom bubble. Do you know that? You don’t see it did not know that. Yeah, if you give me the thumbs up like this, there’s like a whole thing that happens that makes you like cartoon. It’s funny. So when people watch on YouTube, they get little easter eggs in there little things you don’t get on am 1570 But we hope you’re finding us in any way you can. And also at Baltimore positive now a brand new web platform. All of our sponsors are there we are very, very appreciative. New sponsor and Cooper’s and us launch will be there next Friday’s while doing the Maryland crab cake tour. I am Nestor he is Luke we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking Baltimore positive

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