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Luke Jones and Nestor welcome Connor Norby, toast a two-homer game by Austin Hays and discuss the Orioles roster management of Mike Elias with injuries stacking up and no rest on the AL East road.


orioles, play, week, talking, day, point, game, player, baseball, monday night, pitch, year, blue jays, austin, hays, lineup, part, trade, felt, put


Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio

Nestor J. Aparicio  00:01


Welcome home we are W n s t test Baltimore. Baltimore positive we are positively taking the show on the road Mr. Merrill the crabcake tour will be out a couple times this week we’re gonna be Cooper’s on Tuesday afternoon up and Simone even if you miss that don’t worry we’ll be back at Coopers and Fells Point next Friday for Fleet Week all the brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery we’re gonna scratch off to give away I have some PAC man’s to give away that’s Lucky Seven soon and they’re available. I saw them over Costas the other day. Our friends at Liberty pure solutions keeping our water solution iced and Jiffy Lube. Multi care for putting oil in there and my wife took the car up to the Jiffy Lube it right across from curio and a foreign daughter like York antimonium Road 15 minutes in and out. Automatic for the people Jiffy Lube. Multi care. Luke Jones joins us now. We’ve talked a lot of baseball this week. We’re gonna continue to talk a lot of baseball. It feels like Luke and I’ve been getting together in 15 years, probably more than we’ve ever gotten together certainly the last 10 years because they’re playing every night things are happening every day. You wake up they can Jackson holidays gonna get called up and it’s kind of Norby you know, it’s only a matter of time for mayo and for some pitchers. Look, welcome. And First things first road trip here, the Ravens doing a couple of little little things this week, then the big thing next week, but a little bit of breathing time here and these American League East games that hold a lot of value, especially when you piss one away on Sunday afternoon in Tampa, or here, I should say, Don’t hope they don’t pick one away this week in Tampa, but in Toronto on Monday night. You know, I always say garden variety victories because it feels like this team wins a lot. I

Luke Jones  01:45

wouldn’t really say garden variety, though, in the way that they how they won. When you look at Austin Hays hitting two homeruns. And I mean, there was some question before the game I saw fan. Talking about well, why is Austin Hays in the lineup? Where’s Kyle sours? And, you know, kind of going back to the conversation you and I had a couple days ago about Brandon Hyde, and what do you like about him as a manager, what you don’t like about him as a manager. And one of the points that I talked about was trying to balance getting some of these new guys into the lineup, getting them into the mix, at the same time trying not to bury guys that are struggling right now. But you’re still trying to get them going. And you’re still recognizing that you hope to have contributions to make. And I pointed out to you through all the struggles of Cedric Mullins that Austin Hays quietly has been okay, since coming back from the IO hasn’t been perfect. And he’s had some pinch hit opportunities that didn’t go well. But what was the point was not to completely give up on him and lo and behold, he hits two home runs on Monday night to start this blue blue jays series off on the right foot. So Orioles hit four home runs that. Yeah, that’s part of the garden variety

Nestor J. Aparicio  02:55

part. Of course, John Martin a lot of money every time they hit a home run. I mean you no doubt

Luke Jones  03:00

about it, no doubt about it. So at even Ramona Reyes who comes into the game for Conor Norby as a defensive replacement, he goes to third, Westbrook goes a second and arias hits a homerun late in the game to, you know, not really insurance that they needed at that point. But you’ll still three


Nestor J. Aparicio  03:14

days before that, you’re wondering whether he’s gonna come out of the lineup, right? Yeah,

Luke Jones  03:18

exactly. So I mean, it really was a good effort. On Monday night, Grayson Rodriguez nearly gets through seven innings. You know, I think there was some debate, their pitch count wasn’t bad. But you know, they were a couple guys got on base in the seventh inning. You want to have the guy to leave the game feeling good about it. And certainly, we’ve been talking about bullpen management and the fact that they have one off day, all month. But we’ve talked

Nestor J. Aparicio  03:43

about that. But that’s a bigger, we should talk louder about that. Because to your point, every time there’s a starting pitcher there when you have to play tomorrow, and you have to play tomorrow and you have to play tomorrow. You’re always thinking like I only get two more minute batters out of Rodriguez, you get to the left hand, you know what I mean? Whatever it is in the lineup, that that high, it’s gonna have to be thinking that way. And the fact that what we talked about all day yesterday, which was means and and well is not coming back and where’s Kramer? And yeah, they’re, you know, they’re tiptoeing through this, and I call them garden variety victories and they went two out of three. But I mean, they don’t do it without us talking every morning about like, pitching bullpen? Arms, radish. No, I mean, all of its very Kimbrel. All of its very Wavy Gravy. And really, that’s what makes it fun. Right? I mean, they have to go play again tonight. And we’ll be saying that all month because they play every day but one.

Luke Jones  04:38


Yeah. And it’s all related. And I said to you about you mentioned Sunday’s game and them getting letting that get away. I think a big reason why they lost Sunday’s game was Kyle radish didn’t go very deep on Saturday and they had to use their bullpen so extensively. So then, as a result on Sunday, tried to squeeze a couple more outside of Corbin. It gives up a homerun in his last and he pitched well. But you see that happen happen and then And you tried to stretch with Dylan take more than you would like. But that’s just that’s the reality. And that’s why baseball is a marathon because yeah, you’re trying to win that night’s game. But you better be thinking about what that means for tomorrow. And what that means for the day after that. I mean, it’s all related in that way. I mean, these are human beings and these arms to your point, as you mentioned, John means and Tyler Well, as we find out on Monday, John means had Tommy John revision surgery was in Texas and had his arm operated on so you know, I mean, he’s he’s not coming back. He’s probably not going to be available to pitch until late next year best case scenario, whether it’s with the Orioles or someone else as he enters free agency, but you know, this is just this is part of it. So you’re trying to win that night’s game, you’re trying to put your best foot forward but there’s always a cost to that there’s always impact to that and baseball unlike any other sport, because you do play just about every day and the Orioles case literally every day but one this month, so Goodwin on Monday night. Certainly Cano came in and gave them an inning and a third kick in Aiken pitches the ninth but Grayson Rodriguez pitch well, and the Orioles got too old friend Kevin Gasman hitting a total of four home runs but three against him in what was easily one of his worst starts of the year. Yeah, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  06:23

was always a Gasman guy, right? I was always hoping he wouldn’t go that area at a route where he would get really good when he left. And he was pretty good when he left. I mean, certainly, you know, like we couldn’t use them around here in 18, or 19 or 20, when things weren’t going well, but that is interesting. He is one of the guys and this goes back to MacPhail that, you know, sort of worked out, right. I mean, he’s a guy that is a real, he was a lottery pick for a crappy team in a bad year. And sort of kind of figured it out a little bit kind of arrived here a little early, right. And they didn’t know what to do with them and kind of screwed them up a little bit within that buck era. But you’re going back a long time here We Talk About Kevin Gasman seeing him out on the hillock. I don’t know it kind of takes me through the years of where they’ve been what they used to do wrong. And now Cena gets robbery. He is Rodriguez. Right? To some degree. As far as the kind of process he’s a better prospect as a draft pick at least. And you know, I mean, he made it, you know, he made it.

Luke Jones  07:23

Yeah. And look, I mean, Kevin Gasman had more success and Jake areata had here. I mean, he did I mean, he he had a couple seasons where he’s pretty good. Now you were always

Nestor J. Aparicio  07:31

here. I met Eric yet and went there and became Jim Palmer. You know, I know


Luke Jones  07:35

I follow what you’re saying. I’m just I’m saying that Jake Ariadna. By and large was a failure as an Oreo. Kevin Cosman wasn’t a failure as an Oreo. He just did. He realized his full potential No, but he had some big moments. He had some good seasons. And to your point, yeah, they were in the midst of when he arrived, they were already starting to contend. I’ll be it surprisingly, but he was drafted in 12. He was in the major leagues relatively quickly. And then he was in that in between spot in terms of okay, you want to develop them as a starter from a big picture standpoint, but he helped them in the bullpen. And in the 2014. postseason, for example. Remember, he was on deck in a pennant race, right. Yeah. So so there was some of that at work. But yeah, I mean, Kevin, God has been there. He was always going to be traded. I mean, there was no I disagree with you as far as they could have used him in, you know, 1819 No, no, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:26

didn’t retire. It wouldn’t help them. Oh, no, no, I

Luke Jones  08:30

felt Oh, but but the point was, the trade that they made was lousy. Dan Duquette traded him for a bag of baseballs basically,

Nestor J. Aparicio  08:39


they they dumped a salary. I mean, that’s essentially what they did with Kevin Golf has been, you know, they’ll try to tell you that tells you that the weight is very little. That’s how this goes on for a long time. And, and now you look at it, you don’t feel like well, Elias or Rubinstein or Peter Angelos or mama Angelo’s is going to come in and screw with the baseball operation and screw with pitchers and screw with their money or screw with their clock I mean, which maybe leaving Cosman along because it’s makes me think of doughnuts when I’m you know, having a rural farms coffee in the morning out of my cold roofing mug. I’m thinking like Gasman. Oh, you know, but like, my point on him was like, he wouldn’t have helped them and at they were not going to Oh, yeah, anyway, and they were so woefully. He came too early, you know, for the blossoming of his career and area. This case, they just screwed him up. And they could have used area to hear the pennant race at 1314 and 15. For me with the Norbi thing and the Jackson holiday thing, we woke up and you know, we certainly speculated Matteo get hit in the head. And by the way, it took me a minute and three tweets to realize like Brian Roberts was calling a game about a guy hit head, right, weird. So yeah, but the Norby call up. In the old world, this would be the old man saying we’re not going to start holidays clock. Money money, sir. have his time. You know, like, you know, I mean nor nor be it feels like and certainly to see the kid in his locker and up all night and coming in and harken back to me when I had a press credential. I was a media guy for 23 years, but I knew these guys. And I would get to know these kids in Fort Lauderdale were in number 72 and headed toward the Saulsbury Sally Lee, you know, wherever they were going and making it you know, the Damon Buford and the you know, the just guys that I knew was young people who blossomed, Matt Riley, I’m thinking of players of that era, Calvin Pickering, rocky cop injure, you know, all of these guys that got that call. And then you’re standing in the locker room and they walk in with their bags from it. My date was Rochester. Then it was, you know, Ottawa, and now and now Norfolk. And there’s something about that when a kid gets called up and put in starting lineup, you know, there’s part of, I don’t know, if that’s a baseball tradition, or something that’s a little bit, hey, we’re gonna call you up, you’re gonna play, you know, we’re not going to just have yourself here at the end of the bench, unless you’re that kind of player. But in this circumstance, they all know each other, they all grew up together, they all eat Spaghettios together on a bus, he you know, driving through Virginia, and so they’re there and they’ll talk Stowey and Westie and, you know, it takes me back to the Big Bopper and the B. So, you know, all the nicknames and all of that stuff, but to see a young guy come up at, you know, he was blobbing there was no saying he absolutely was gonna wear an Oreo lineup here.

Luke Jones  11:35

Yeah, and I think the other part of this is, we don’t know how long he’s going to be here either. I mean, Jorge Mateo is on the set. They have the seven day injured list for concussion specifically. And, you know, they’re obviously hopeful that he’s not going to be out very long and Jorge Mateo was playing well. You know, this isn’t a performance based kind of decision. This is an injury based decision so nice to see Connor Norby getting get an opportunity went over three had a couple strikeouts, but they had the the one weird double play were deflected off the pitcher, it goes right to him gave Dave Henderson a really nice fee to turn the double play that was good to see. But even with him, he gets replaced late in the game defense is not considered his, his forte, his strongest element, you know, he’s much more of a bad guy, not that he’s a bad defender. But you know, he’s not projected to be a Gold Glove caliber infielder the way that Joey Ortiz was for example. So Arias comes in and he’s

Nestor J. Aparicio  12:29

doing okay, by the way that Ortiz guys doing great. There’s another guy. That’s my point that went in Eduardo Rodriguez works out. I mean, this goes back to my dad, you know, with local kids like Moo sauce and Mike bulaki When they would go play play. I was told, you know, Brian, co It’s Miss I followed your whole career. Oh, that’s nice. No, no, dude, I worked the paper, I check your stats. Every week. I put it on loop leaders, we go back to that last Friday with you. But like when when guys get a chance out, there is something really beautiful about that. And when they take advantage of it, and when they get blocked and when they get traded. And when betrayed works out when you get something back that you want, you know, an a starter in a year when you’re trying to win a World Series. You know, this organization is so fat, I guess that we talk about it all the time. But there goes your proof when they couldn’t call holiday up and they want to call in Norby up and you’re not like, Oh, they’re just doing them a favor. Now they’re in a pennant race playing playing games, put them in a lineup. They wanted to do better than two strikeouts and over.

Luke Jones  13:27

I mean, I mean they do. But it also speaks to just kind of where they are right now. Roster wise. I think they did want to give Conor Norby an opportunity here. I think there there is some merit to that idea. And I think there was an idea that if this isn’t the time for Jackson Holliday to come up and stay for good, then don’t bring them up for five days, right? Or don’t bring them up for seven days. And I’m fine with that. And as I noted to you, I think we might even been off the air he’s swinging the bat better of late Jackson holiday is the last couple of weeks. So that’s good to see. Well, he


Nestor J. Aparicio  14:00

says, Well, he’s seniors, so he’s gonna be here and adjustments, right? Like they’re asking him to do something, he’s probably going to be needing to do it. That’s who he is. Right?

Luke Jones  14:07

Well, but this was also the first time he ever struggled if we talked about it in those terms. So in the meantime, counter Norby gets an opportunity kind of Norby had, you know, I think he was up to 900 some career plate appearances at AAA, you know, he’s been there over a year, go back to the end of 22 was when he got the call to Norfolk. So he’s been there a while. So I think it is important, even if it’s just for a week, even if it’s just to make a couple starts in remote areas, starts a few games to and that’s all it is to give him a look. And I think with Connor Norby, you look at his long term projection. It’s tough looking where he fits in other than a potential bench role, and that’s why people have cited him as someone who could possibly include it be included in a deal for a pitcher or whatever it might be. So but in the meantime, you see what see what you have. Now you can play say, obviously he’s a pro Marilee a second baseman but with holiday plans second base at Norfolk this year he’s played a lot of corner outfield as well as played left field and right field so if he were to stick with the Orioles in a long term setting he’s probably a super utility backup infielder slash fifth outfielder type which, hey, there’s a place for that on your roster if you can play so that a

Nestor J. Aparicio  15:22

McKenna right in that case Yeah, well you’re saying right.

Luke Jones  15:25


Yeah, I mean, you know, but but that’s kind of what you’re most likely envisioning him to be that kind of a role. Because I mean, Gunnar Henderson’s there shortstop Jackson Holliday is going to be their second baseman, Jordan Westberg. I mean, even two months ago, someone might have said, Jordan Westbrook might be the super utility guy long term. He’s been an all star caliber third baseman. So that’s not even talking about Kobe mayo, and what kind of bat he provides and projects to have, at the next level, even though he’s banged up right now, and on the injured list. So, you know, you’ve got all these guys, and not all of them are gonna be able to play. And that’s why we’ve talked about the good problem that Mike Elias has had, but it is a problem to try to figure out. Okay, who were the guys that you want to keep? Who are your your dudes? And who are the guys that you think a little bit less of, but you want to try to maximize their trade value? And that doesn’t mean you don’t think they’re gonna make it. You know, Joey Ortiz looks like a guy who’s gonna be a legitimate Major Leaguer and his first two months as a everyday player in the major leagues, it’s gone really well, Milwaukee has to be thrilled with what they’ve gotten in the Corbin burns trade and the brewers are still really good. So, you know, there’s always this perception. And, you know, I book show, Walter talked about this. You know, I’ve heard Eric Decosta mentioned this in passing, as well. But when you make a trade with the team, there’s always this perception from a fan standpoint that you want to fleece, the other side, right, and sometimes that sometimes it plays out that way. But really, when you’re a general manager, when you’re an executive, when you’re trying to work with other teams, it really comes down to you want to try to win when you make a trade. Yeah, you want to, quote win the trade, but you want it to work out for both sides, because you want to be able to do business with them in the future as well. And if there’s ever any perception of man, you guys, really, you really oversold that guy, or you really undersold this health concern about him or whatever it might be. Well, the health concern speaks to integrity. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So

Nestor J. Aparicio  17:23

and then look, I’m not buyer beware, that’s Hey, man, your daughter’s you get get your orthopedist on the day. Right. No doubt. But but the overall

Luke Jones  17:31

point is typically with these trades, you want both sides to come away from it feeling okay about it, at the very least, and so far with Milwaukee? I mean, I think the Orioles are putting birds has been everything they thought he would be. And on the flip side, Joey Ortiz. Now DL Hall has been a different story because he’s hurt. Velocity was down and I’ll continue to say I think DL hauls can be a late inning reliever. And yeah, that has some value to it, but certainly wasn’t so much that you weren’t going to pull the trigger if you can acquire Corbin burns. But Joey Ortiz is looking like, now he’s played third base for them, he’s probably going to be their shortstop long term because they’re in a position with Willie Adonis, who I believe is a free agent after this year, who’s the primary shortstop. So he’s looking like a legit major league player. And it would just be the latest out of the many coming out of this Oriole system. So, you know, with Conor Norby, whether it’s one week, whether this is the start of him becoming a super utility guy for the Orioles, or whether this maybe amounts to a pseudo showcase for him to potentially be dealt and included with a couple other prospects for some pitching at the trade deadline, who knows. But in the meantime, it’s cool to see him here. He’s someone who’s been on the radar for a couple years. He’s been at Norfolk for a while he’s been biding his time and putting in the work. I know, they put in a lot of work with him trying to improve his defense. But, you know, he’s had up he’s been an 850 Oh, PS kind of guy at the triple A level. I mean, that warrants an opportunity that warrants a look, whether it’s with the Orioles or wherever he ultimately is going to play in the Major League. So, you know, in the meantime, see if he can give you a spark and, you know, if he’s here a week, he’s here a week, but it’s always fun seeing these guys caught up and I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that what Monday was actually the five year anniversary of the Orioles drafting Adley rutschman, and Gunnar Henderson. So think about those days and think about where they are five years later. I remember you and I talking five years ago about that. And oh, my goodness, this where they are now. It felt so long away. Even if you were optimistic, even if you were confident you’re right, Astro ball, even if all all those things it still felt so long away. And now we’re talking about a team that let’s face it has been good to great for close to two years now. So I mean, it’s it’s not a fluke. It’s not a Cinderella story anymore. It’s just two they are now it’s just a matter of I need to keep winning because the New York Yankees keep winning, although they gained a half game on Monday night because the Yankees were idle, but it’s very much a no, this is a another

Nestor J. Aparicio  20:10

Yankees has beaten me game one and I’ll continue to be flipping all year with you on the whether they win. I am not scoreboard watching because at the end, you better be healthy enough to beat them in a five, game seven, whatever, whatever is gonna get put in front of you in October and you want to earn that, but you can’t beat them every night. You can only pay a team in front of you. I mean, like, and that’s especially in June dude, you know what I mean? Like, but again, I’m wearing my state fair shirt. We’re gonna be over at State Fair Thursday, we have the the end of the Toronto series at one o’clock. We’re gonna be doing a little brunch today. So my friend hump and how we stopping by we’re going to talk about all all sorts of memories because Howard was my original hockey friend 40 years ago. So we’re going to be today for I’ll be giving away Pac Man scratch offs. We’re going to be next week. We’re going to be Coco’s on Wednesday in the afternoon. We’re six coming by Maxwell. It’s gonna be good time. Then the following week, we’re gonna be Costas on the 20th. Because the Orioles are playing up in New York. And that’s the end of another series, afternoon game, they’re late afternoon game, we’re gonna be doing the show at cost us in the afternoon, to come on out for that. That’s when you want to wake me up with this Yankee thing. You know, two weeks from now they play each other? Do you think it’s a shame? They don’t play each other 19 times a year anymore? Are you on to this? Let’s play the Cardinals. Let’s play the read. You’re younger than me. So I mean, maybe you have a different take on it. But I think the way now thing weirds me out when they have two games and three games in the series and the rains. Yeah.


Luke Jones  21:40

I’m I like a more balanced schedule from the standpoint of if you’re going to have a system where you have three wild cards now. I think you need to have a more balanced schedule, then. You know, you and I we’ve already scrimmage this will continue to debate. I mean, certainly, your point has merit as far as thinking about the big picture in October but you also have to get to that five game series, whether it’s against the Yankees or whoever it is. And if you’re a wild card team, you’ve got to play that three game where you have a bad 24 hours and you can be done. I mean that’s how quickly it can fall apart. And we saw this happen last year to a couple teams that were favored in the wild card round

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:22

you can sit around all week and hit fungos and welcome Luke out to media day and then get your ass kicked three days in a row right like that. Well, I mean

Luke Jones  22:30

yeah, I mean, but at the same time it’s the same thing talking about the Ravens you know as the number one seed respires for us, right? I mean, slowly this weird

Nestor J. Aparicio  22:40


calling down bad speeds weird. It’s weird, weirder in baseball, like every year it strikes me as weird when you sit around and go out there to afternoon practices and the sun setting and games are on all day and they’re not playing it feel good about that to your point like we earn that and then you get out there and the pitchers on nine days and they can’t figure anything out. Yeah, you know

Luke Jones  23:03

but you know what’s not weird whatsoever losing two in a row and then you’re done. I mean, how many times do the best teams of baseball lose two in a row over the course of a season and then you’re done? I mean, not even the best of five it’s the best to three anyway we’ll have plenty of time to talk about that because this team in some shape or form sort of something short of a collapse I mean they’re going to be better not

Nestor J. Aparicio  23:28

talking about them not making the playoffs in September well it’s gonna be gets appointed letters from me if that happens.

Luke Jones  23:37

I’m mean, if that happens, then we’re probably talking about more elbow injuries and more pitching injuries and all kinds of stuff. Anyway. In the meantime, you know, you have this team that started the stretch to four game sets against at least opponents and a good way to start the series on Monday night burns pitches are pointed out you know, there’s you’re seeing a lot of TBA right now, you know, Brandon heights trying to figure this out in terms of how to slot these guys. Where does someone like Cade Povich potentially fit in to and Kramer has started to throw a little bit he’s still gonna be a little ways and he’s probably going to need a rehab assignment. So Kramer might be a couple more weeks but they seem to be encouraged and, and positive as far as you know how he is, you know, it’s a triceps issue. It’s not an elbow or shoulder or anything like that so


Nestor J. Aparicio  24:27

much thing is rotation, right? Like when he’s got a pitch that makes sure that they don’t have him on seven days and they can’t throw him on three or four in the big leagues. That’s how that’s gonna happen this week. Right. That’s the next day.

Luke Jones  24:41

Yeah, I mean, probably, I mean, you know, the really trying to I think they’d really like to give Kyle brandishes an extra day as much as possible. I think they’d like to give the some of these. Whether you’re talking about a veteran or a young guy think you’d like to give an extra day from time to time. But when you leave really have one off day all month and look, I mean it’s their schedule it’s just part of it. It’s not an excuse but it’s it’s part of the reality right now that you know you’re trying to figure this out but at the same time, how much of that factors into how did the starters pitch every given night? What impact does it have on the bullpen? You want to keep enough flexibility cuz you might need you might need a bullpen arm, you know, to you know, they they made the move, recalling Nick WSP. And they sent Vieira out, you know, the guy whose name I forgot yesterday. Clearly, they didn’t think very much of him on his one outing that we saw last week where he did not retire a banner. So he will go down as having an infinite era with the Orioles unless he gets, you know, unless he’s outright into Norfolk and find his way back on the roster at some point. So this is it’s a challenge, but at the same time, it’s still really good baseball team. And it’s not something that I think if you throw a lens of impending doom or anything like that, but they have to navigate it. And it’s certainly a challenge with, you know, trying to win every night to the point I made about Sunday’s game where I felt like Sunday’s game was absolutely no part of the effect of Saturday’s game or practice gets knocked out early. And you got to use so many relievers. I mean, that’s just how it works. But at the same time, if you’re in that moment, you still want to go for it, you still want to win, you still want to put your best foot forward in that spot. So that’s why it’s nice to have knights that they had Monday night where Grayson Rodriguez pitched well, and they hit four home runs and it was a very, you know, lack of very much a lack of drama late in the game. And those are the kinds of games that Brandon Hyde likes to see more and more of and they

Nestor J. Aparicio  26:42

woke up and all star bat in their outfield who was buried who, you know, we’ve talked about at length who you have a relationship with, with Austin Hayes. I mean, he’s that gamer guy as I see it from the outside. You know, you didn’t think he was just gonna quit and go away. I thought he was gonna wind up in the Mets outfield hitting 285 with 14 jacks, you know what I mean? Like on another franchise, that’s probably what, where it’s gonna wind up. But the fact that he hacked the couple on Monday night, you talking about trade value for another team that may be looking for a starting piece for an injured, whatever. Not that he doesn’t want to be a part of this. And it does go back to to Norby and these guys even Ryan Ripken on the other rating, knowing all of like they all knew each other. This has been a cluster of young players that looked up to Austin Hays and looked up to him, Cedric Mullins when they weren’t looking down at him. You know, when he was coming up and coming down and saying, there’s your success story there. Santander will five, you know, like all of these guys, but they’re gonna get pushed out. I mean, everything we said about Hayes, that all still sticks, whether it’s curse dad, Couser, scours, you know, holiday coming up all the all the room you’re looking for, for these younger, cheaper players. He’s coming back to life is I know you’re, you’re tickled by that to some degree because you’d like him?

Luke Jones  28:04


Well, I mean, I think, and I even wrote this on Monday, I mentioned it in passing in our conversation, you know, talking about the race series. But look at Austin Hays got off to an absolute nightmare, nightmare of a start. I mean, that’s what every player, you know, you don’t want to be ofor to open the season or five for 50 to open the season because you’re just swimming upstream. It’s kind of like think about relief pitchers when they have that terrible outing in April. I remember Jesse Roscoe, he he had that awful outing and that 26 to seven game in 1996 against the Rangers. Rosco was great the rest of the year. But in August, his era still stunk. Because it was just one of those deals where you’re just swimming upstream, and statistically, it’s gonna look bad. So in Hayes’s case, I mean that the numbers still looked really bad. They still look bad after Monday night’s game, but since he had come off the I O going into Monday’s game, he was 10 for 34. It’s not like he had been awful at the plate, you know, but he hadn’t hit for power. Yeah, you said that right away.

Nestor J. Aparicio  29:08

He had hit for power hits through bumps. Yeah,

Luke Jones  29:11

yeah. So so you know. And look, part of this is also this is how baseball season works. And this is why and I’m guilty of it, too. I wanted to Jorge Mateo DFA last August and the Orioles stuck with them. And we’ve seen him make some very legitimate positive contributions at a time of need When Jackson Holliday struggled and they had to send them back to Norfolk. So this is why when a player gets off to a bad start, you know, the knee jerk reaction is always we’ll get rid of that guy, DFA, um, send them to the minors, it looks sometimes that happens and sometimes that is the right decision. And sometimes the player is just done. But there are also other times where, especially guys with the track record, they work their way out of it. I mean, this is an extreme example here, obviously, because the Yankees weren’t cool. To entertain any thoughts, but go look at what Aaron judge did back in April. And look at where he is now. I mean, Aaron judge did not have a great start. Now everyone was talking about Soto and Aaron judge got off to a slow start. Aaron judges, right there was Soto. Now he’s an MVP candidate, and has been unbelievable for the last five weeks, because he’s Aaron. Judge. So Austin, Hays isn’t that, obviously. But to your point, as you pointed out, I mean, he was an all star last year. So this is again, where Brandon and Hyde has this challenge of yeah, you’re trying to win that night’s game and you’re trying to play the hot hand, and you’re trying to give these young guys opportunities. At the same time, you don’t want to completely bury Austin Hayes, you don’t want to completely bury Cedric Mullins because they do have a track record. And it’s not a guarantee that they’re going to bounce back. But in most cases, because they’re not 37 years old, they probably will bounce back so and to be clear, just because Austin Hayes hit two home runs on Monday night doesn’t mean he automatically becomes an everyday player again or shouldn’t. But it speaks to, hey, maybe this guy is getting going. And you know what, Austin Hayes is swinging the bat well, he can be a guy that I wouldn’t say carries you, but can certainly be one of your three or four main guys for a week or two at the very least. So it’s good to see. And, again, a reminder of why when he gets off to a bad start, you don’t just get rid of him. Craig Kimbrel has two bad weeks, you don’t just get rid of them. Cedric Mullins who’s been really bad, doesn’t mean you just get rid of them.

Nestor J. Aparicio  31:23

So I would also say from the starting pitching because I was gonna say this 20 minutes ago, we were talking about it when Grayson Rodriguez is in trouble in the third inning, you don’t just go get him because you got to play again tomorrow and the next day and the next day, right. So like patience throughout all of this. It’s baseball, it’s a it’s a game of patience, like literally and fans that want to hear in the now and the football and the hockey fan doesn’t you know, like Out with the old in with the new all of that I that’s, you know, that’s not who this organ it that’s not who Mike Elias is, and continue to tip my cap to him for dealing with Angelo’s for coming in here for working on a twisted budget for but also for changing things and being clearly a genius, right? I mean, literally write a baseball. I


Luke Jones  32:09

mean, I mean, I think the proof is in the results and the look, we can talk about trade deadline deals and what that’s going to be what it wasn’t last year with Fuji and Jack Flaherty that didn’t work out so well. But look at all these other moves that have been made, you know, look at Ryan O’Hearn, for example, you know, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  32:25

was afraid to fail either because that’s kind of happened. Well, you can’t you can’t be right. Ultimately, you

Luke Jones  32:31

know what’s going to happen? Because you met you made mention of the name Jake area, they’re going to try to Jake area at some point he’s gonna end up popping in and being an all star and Joey Ortiz, you know, I, you know, I’m not shocked by what he’s doing so far. And I’ll also point out, it’s only been a couple of months. Let’s see what he’s doing come July and August and September, and even next year, because we’ve even talked about guys like Corbin Carroll, who was Rookie of the Year in the NFL a year ago and is really struggling. Look at the Blue Jays. I mean, as we’re talking about it, look at the Blue Jays with some of these guys. I mean, Vlad Guerrero three years ago, you thought he was going to be Aaron judge basically, black Guerrero has been pretty middling since then. I mean, like, I’m not saying he’s bad. middlings the wrong word. But he hasn’t looked like a top five player in the American League the last couple years. You know, and, you know, it’s really tough to maintain that level. And,

Nestor J. Aparicio  33:24


you know, Gunnar Henderson is doing right now. Yeah, we

Luke Jones  33:27

need to right. I mean, Gunner went from rookie of the year to MVP, you know, I mean, Vlad Guerrero you thought he was gonna be a perennial MVP guy in the last couple years. It hasn’t looked that way. I mean, Bo Bichette. Another one looked like he was going to be an absolute stud. I mean, it’s got a 345 slugging percentage right now. You know, he’s, he’s having a bad year. So go down the list of those blue jays team you know, that blue jays lineup and that team that had such expectations, you know, they were kind of perceived three years ago as the Orioles are now as this up and coming young with money. And because they’re Kansas team, I

Nestor J. Aparicio  34:02

I’ve often you know, I always say that whenever I go up there, it’s such a hockey place and Edmonton is in the finals now. But like, they could buy anything they wanted the Blue Jays, you know what I mean? Like they could be the Yankees if they want it to be, although

Luke Jones  34:14

they tried to buy Otani and then the Dodgers just threw stupid money at Well, I


Nestor J. Aparicio  34:18

understand that but at that, oh shorts out that they’re in the Otani bidding wasn’t any Otani betting. Mr. Rubenstein and Mr. Angelo’s right, like, and probably Mr. Rubenstein will never be in that but he because he’s gonna have to figure out Henderson and figure out Roger, because they’re growing their own players figure out Rodriguez.

Luke Jones  34:34

Yeah, I mean, you’re hoping that you want to keep some of these guys at least you’re not going to keep everyone but you’re gonna keep you’re hoping to keep some so but yeah, I mean, it’s, it again, points to this being difficult. And just because you’re a great one year doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to be great the next year at the same time. If you are going through some struggles, and you have guys with the track record, you want to be patient you want to be as patient as you can NB, right? Cedric Mullins sat on Monday night. We’ve been seeing him sit much more frequently. Austin Hayes’s been a fourth outfielder since mid April. Right. So that doesn’t mean that that’s going to be the way it is now moving forward, but we also know that yeah, Colton Couser is in the mix. And Kyle sours is in the mix, and what testing curse dad gonna do. And, you know, all these factors are at work, and we know that change is going to come. They’re not extending Austin Hayes. They’re not extending Cedric Mullins. I don’t think they’re extending out any Santander. And really, there’s not a very strong argument to do that for any of those guys. Maybe Santander at the money would be just right, you know, in a sense of knowing that he’s probably not going to get crazy money on the open market. But point is they’ve got younger guys who project to be better players. Keep in mind Austin Hays, it took him a couple years to figure it out. Cedric Mullins was demoted, you know, sent all the way to double A after he made his debut. So we talked about this a lot. Player Development is not linear. You made mention mention of it. Baseball is a game of patience, you know what else it’s a game of failure. There’s a lot of failure that goes on in baseball, even the best players fail six out of 10 times seven out of 10 bothers me because we we take out walks and on base percentage when we say seven out of 10. So I say six out of 10 for the greatest players. But you know, it really is something that you have to keep in mind on a daily basis. And I think the Orioles for the most part. They’ve done a good job with that. And you know, hey, sometimes a guy needs to reset and you send Jackson holiday down, but you also recognize that Jackson holiday, it’s probably still gonna be a really really good player for the Orioles just because he had 10 bad games doesn’t mean that you give up on them or anything crazy like that. So it’s barely shaving. He can’t even drink. Exactly. So you know, we’ll see how it plays out. But hey, even guys who are older and able to drink and able to shave, it’s still very difficult for them. It’s a very difficult ballgame. So yeah, that’s that’s part of what the beauty of it right? You know, things that happen that surprise you and things don’t always go your way but there’s a lot going their way for the Orioles as they continue to navigate this month of June and chase the Yankees but hey, they’re still in a really really good spot and a good way to open the road trip on Monday night.

Nestor J. Aparicio  37:20

But those of you who watch us out on our YouTube channel and a Baltimore Where am I stay fair Catonsville Maryland shirt we’ll be out of state fair on Thursday before the Blue Jays game. Come on out. Stop by get some chicken and waffles. Get some lunch get wrap. Get that delicious salmon and rice thing that Chef Keith puts together over there for us. We’ll be there Thursday morning games at one o’clock against the Blue Jays Cooper’s on Tuesday and again Cooper’s and Fells Point next Friday. On next Wednesday. We’re going to be at Coco’s and then we’re over in my homeland of Dundalk. It costs us where I had dinner the other night my wife’s banged up and trying to get her leg together. Big thanks to everybody that’s giving my wife some love last couple days will be a Costas on the 20th before the Yankees game and then on the 25th up at Pappus in Parkville my neck of the woods with Jeanne and everybody they’re having the chicken franchise and a crab cake and that’ll be on the 25th of the month so all the brought to you by the Maryland lottery that Pac Man scratch offs to give away if you’re watching the Orioles are playing every night they’re hitting homeruns John Martin’s run around trying to pay all these bills, more grand slams, more bases loaded situations for home run riches, our friends at Jiffy Lube, multi care and liberty pure solutions, putting the Maryland crab cake tour out on the road. Luke and I had a great crab cake conversation at fade Lee’s last Friday. I also was joined by Bill Henry and Amy Hahn talking about eating and these invasive blue cat fish when you see cat fish bites on the menu, eat those things get those dirty SOPs out of the bay invasive creatures. Kind of like Yankees fans, Red Sox fans, get them out of here. I am Nestor we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore positive

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